Re: Console for Tomcat
Hi, I'm continuing the study to see what type of Graphical (RIA) Console could be developed for Tomcat, and I have spoken with other Pivot developers, but at this point we need some help from you to better understand some key points that make that application really useful. JMX could be the way to exchange data with Tomcat, but do you think it's more useful a Monitoring (all at Runtime, no persistent changes) via JMX, or a Configuration Application (and in this case we could load/save config files directly if on the same host, or better calling some service exposed by Tomcat and let it the load/save work) ? Or both ? My first use case to try to address is some of most common operations, like: Monitoring: - list/manage applications and maybe server status - deploy/undeploy/start/stop applications Configuration: - list/manage users - list/manage datasources That's why this was my first idea for some simple features to implement, and this could be the beginning. Then, as suggested, a step further could be the ability to handle a Cluster of Tomcat, but here probably we'll need the support of someone of you to avoid pitfalls. Do you prefer to continue the discussion here or in other way (another Tomcat mailing list, or other) ? Comments are (very) welcome ... Thanks again, Sandro - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Console for Tomcat
On 03.03.2010 00:14, Bill Stoddard wrote: On 3/2/10 1:33 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote: On 3/2/2010 7:18 AM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 02/03/2010 00:20, Sandro Martini wrote: For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... This is the bit that, to me, offers an opportunity for real value. Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? Potentially. Something else to think about is handling multiple Tomcat instances. If you could manage tens of instances from a single client then that would get a lot of interest from the user community. This was pretty much the description of the incubating Lokahi effort, which sadly was mothballed, for now, due to lack of interest from the developer community. Lokahi did not generate much interest from the user community... unfortunately. As far as I understand Lokahi tried to manage both, the Apache Webserver and Apache Tomcat. Its goal was real enterprise type management, so e.g. it put all configuration data into a database. That's a huge step from were we are now (Tomcat manager webapp) and in the Lokahi domain the user community is typically operations people who are often relatively far from being a developer and contributing. Trying to aim at the middle ground might trigger more interest. Being able to remotely administer, but maybe not using a very high level configuration management. That's something one could also discuss on the users list. AFAIK one of the problematic parts of the old admin webapp was getting storeconfig into a working and maintainable state. In other words: how does one correctly save changes applied to a configuration by a console? Regards, Rainer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Console for Tomcat
On 02/03/2010 00:20, Sandro Martini wrote: My post here is to see if someone of Tomcat developers is interested in supporting us making a Console for Tomcat, but instead of usual Web pages, making it as a RIA Applet or an Application (for example deployed via Web Start). Or at least if you think this could be an interesting application for Tomcat. I'm generally in favour of changes that make it easier for folks to customize and extend Tomcat. That said, I'd want to look at each specific change on its merits. As for an alternative manager implementation, I'm currently neutral. I'd be a lot more interested if a maintained replacement for the admin console (from Tomcat 5) was on the cards. I haven't looked (yet) at Tomcat sources, but I think that probably the way Tomcat published data should be extended for our purposes, for example we are able to read natively xml and also (better choice for us) json formats. Maybe we could add a parameter in our queries asking Tomcat for data published in one of those formats. Tomcat's internals are mostly designed to be accessed via JMX. If you can talk JMX then most of the work is done. There is a HTTP proxy to the JMX interface in the manager app. Maybe a json-JMX proxy? In detail, I'm thinking on the following features, to see how things looks: - Server Status (standard and also the Full version), a prototype could start to implement this - List Applications This should be trivial. If it isn't then, I'd have concerns about the overall viability of the approach. There could be also the Tomcat Deployer in RIA version. I'd view that feature as essential. For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... This is the bit that, to me, offers an opportunity for real value. Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? Potentially. Something else to think about is handling multiple Tomcat instances. If you could manage tens of instances from a single client then that would get a lot of interest from the user community. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Console for Tomcat
On 3/2/2010 7:18 AM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 02/03/2010 00:20, Sandro Martini wrote: For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... This is the bit that, to me, offers an opportunity for real value. Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? Potentially. Something else to think about is handling multiple Tomcat instances. If you could manage tens of instances from a single client then that would get a lot of interest from the user community. This was pretty much the description of the incubating Lokahi effort, which sadly was mothballed, for now, due to lack of interest from the developer community. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Console for Tomcat
On 3/2/10 1:33 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote: On 3/2/2010 7:18 AM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 02/03/2010 00:20, Sandro Martini wrote: For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... This is the bit that, to me, offers an opportunity for real value. Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? Potentially. Something else to think about is handling multiple Tomcat instances. If you could manage tens of instances from a single client then that would get a lot of interest from the user community. This was pretty much the description of the incubating Lokahi effort, which sadly was mothballed, for now, due to lack of interest from the developer community. Lokahi did not generate much interest from the user community... unfortunately. Bill - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Console for Tomcat
There is a servlet that dumps all JMX objects - in a strange format ( like manifest or INI file - not hard to parse ). Would be great ( and quite easy ) to make it also output json. All information you want should be there - and much more. Exposing new data is also easy. You can also use some of the JMX access methods - RMI, etc. Costin On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org wrote: On 02/03/2010 00:20, Sandro Martini wrote: My post here is to see if someone of Tomcat developers is interested in supporting us making a Console for Tomcat, but instead of usual Web pages, making it as a RIA Applet or an Application (for example deployed via Web Start). Or at least if you think this could be an interesting application for Tomcat. I'm generally in favour of changes that make it easier for folks to customize and extend Tomcat. That said, I'd want to look at each specific change on its merits. As for an alternative manager implementation, I'm currently neutral. I'd be a lot more interested if a maintained replacement for the admin console (from Tomcat 5) was on the cards. I haven't looked (yet) at Tomcat sources, but I think that probably the way Tomcat published data should be extended for our purposes, for example we are able to read natively xml and also (better choice for us) json formats. Maybe we could add a parameter in our queries asking Tomcat for data published in one of those formats. Tomcat's internals are mostly designed to be accessed via JMX. If you can talk JMX then most of the work is done. There is a HTTP proxy to the JMX interface in the manager app. Maybe a json-JMX proxy? In detail, I'm thinking on the following features, to see how things looks: - Server Status (standard and also the Full version), a prototype could start to implement this - List Applications This should be trivial. If it isn't then, I'd have concerns about the overall viability of the approach. There could be also the Tomcat Deployer in RIA version. I'd view that feature as essential. For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... This is the bit that, to me, offers an opportunity for real value. Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? Potentially. Something else to think about is handling multiple Tomcat instances. If you could manage tens of instances from a single client then that would get a lot of interest from the user community. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Console for Tomcat
Hi to all, my name is Sandro Martini and I'm one of the Developers of Apache Pivot ( http://pivot.apache.org/ ), a RIA Framework. I cross-posted this to our developers list (here in CC) so other Pivot developers can join the discussion. My post here is to see if someone of Tomcat developers is interested in supporting us making a Console for Tomcat, but instead of usual Web pages, making it as a RIA Applet or an Application (for example deployed via Web Start). Or at least if you think this could be an interesting application for Tomcat. I haven't looked (yet) at Tomcat sources, but I think that probably the way Tomcat published data should be extended for our purposes, for example we are able to read natively xml and also (better choice for us) json formats. Maybe we could add a parameter in our queries asking Tomcat for data published in one of those formats. For security, we already support Basic authentication, and we have a prototype for Digest authentication. Some time ago I've seen an experimental feature like this for the Glassfish 3, but with JavaFX as Client and exchanging data via REST. In detail, I'm thinking on the following features, to see how things looks: - Server Status (standard and also the Full version), a prototype could start to implement this - List Applications There could be also the Tomcat Deployer in RIA version. For a Full Administration Console (I don't see this since a long time) we have to see later, this is complex and requires many features ... Do you think the effort could be interesting also for the Tomcat community ? I hope both projects can collaborate, to start creating a new generation of Web Applications. Thanks for the attention and best regards, Sandro Martini - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@tomcat.apache.org
