Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
How small does it need to be? If you really need a full HTTP + servlets configuration then it might be easier to use one of the smaller Jetty configurations ( http://jetty.mortbay.org/ ). Do you really need servlets (i.e. is this webapp meant to run anywhere)? Dropping the standard servlet interface will slim things down. Do you really need the ability to handle heavy traffic? Both Tomcat and Jetty put extra effort into handling large numbers of connections with high throughput - which translates to bigger code and data. If you don't need this ability, then a simpler HTTP server could be a better bet.
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
Not sure Jetty is fit for embedded use either. http://khttp.objectweb.org/ - or something similar, capable of running in CVM or even KVM - could be a viable solution for java on low end devices. The real problem is not the size of tomcat itself - but the number of JVM classes it uses and all the layers and features that need to be loaded. What people fail to understand very often is that flash has very different characteristics from a hard drive, and a 200MHz processor and 32MB ( or even 400MHz/64MB ) are slightly different from a 2G Hz/ 1 G RAM or even a low end - 1GHz/256M :-) Costin On 4/23/06, Preston L. Bannister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How small does it need to be? If you really need a full HTTP + servlets configuration then it might be easier to use one of the smaller Jetty configurations ( http://jetty.mortbay.org/ ). Do you really need servlets (i.e. is this webapp meant to run anywhere)? Dropping the standard servlet interface will slim things down. Do you really need the ability to handle heavy traffic? Both Tomcat and Jetty put extra effort into handling large numbers of connections with high throughput - which translates to bigger code and data. If you don't need this ability, then a simpler HTTP server could be a better bet.
Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
Costin,
I need to build a small (lightweight) version of Tomcat 5.x
for PDA arm processor. Can you give me some lead on how to
go about it please.
Thanks,
Tom
Original message
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:13:35 -0700
From: Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Tomcat Developers List dev@tomcat.apache.org
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where did you get the JDK for tomcat?
Compiled it myself, it's pretty easy.
jamvm.sf.net and the classpath project ( I think @fsf.org ).
I actually did a straight compile, not a cross on this
case, since I
had the big hdd and usb2, but cross should work fine too.
I don't know what's your use case,
I need a servlet engine.
Well, what do you intend to do with it ? Keep in mind it's
going to
use most of the device memory, and will be relatively slow.
Costin
but keep in mind tomcat ( and java
in general ) has a large memory footprint. If all you
need
is an HTTP
server - it is better to use only the coyote connector (
with some
custom code ). Or even write your own tiny-http - you
really
don't
need support for large concurrency or all the fancy
features.
You may get better performances with CVM, which has much
smaller
footprint - but it may not work well with current tomcat.
Java on PDA is very tricky, make sure you have plenty of
memory (
i.e. 64M :-).
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Costin,
Do you have a built version of tomcat and other
necessary
requirements information to run on a PDA? What PDA
was it?
Please share the information.
Thanks inadvance,
Tom
I tested it with jamvm+classpath on NSLU2, should run
fine
on zaurus as well.
Startup time is a bit slow, and memory use is a bit
high -
but it
works reasonably
well.
I would suggest the sandbox version for this :-).
The main problem on PDAs is the flash access speed,
which
is
much
smaller than HDD,
so size of the jar and number of classes loaded
matters a
lot.
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings,
Do we have a binary version of Tomcat build for PDA
(ipaq
or
sharp zaurus) arm processor? If not can some one
help?
Does anyone know where I can get a JDK for PDA?
Thanks,
Tom
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Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
Wade Chandler wrote: You'd be hard pressed getting less RAM usage out of the .NET Framework when you compare apples to apples (application vs application designed the same and doing the same things). If you are used to Java use it. That is true if we were comparing Java to .Net, but on a PocketPC you would be using the .Net Compact Framework (CF). Comparing the CF to full-blown Java isn't a fair comparison because the CF is optimized for small memory footprint devices like a PDA. One thing is to see if a J2ME implementation exists for ARM, and I don't know the answer to that. Comparing J2ME to .Net CF would be a much more fair comparison. Why would you even bother with .NET if you have Java and a good modularized application. At least with java applications you can reuse some of your classes from your desktop..beans and such. Harder to do with .NET and the Compact and Desktop projects provided by Visual Studio. Not true... much like the way you can reuse most classes written under J2ME in a desktop Java app (not counting the things that are specific to J2ME of course), you can reuse CF classes on the desktop, and vice-versa. Remember that just like Java, there is nothing that forces you to use Visual Studio, you can do it all from the command line. You can therefore exercise full control over what goes into your code. There certainly are things that won't be shareable, just like not everything is shareable between J2SE and J2ME, but as you say, if the application is modularized and architected well, most of your core business logic should be identical. But of course the crux of this whole thread is whether a suitable Java implementation exists, and a Tomcat build for ARM, that would together allow Tomcat to run on a PDA. Assuming not, only then does the .Net suggestion (or more generically, native app) come into play. Wade Frank -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM: fzammetti Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
--- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nearly every PDA with that much RAM doesn't actually have that much RAM... the problem is, WinCE itself uses up a lot of it. For instance, I sit here with my Dell Axim x51v with 64Mb, yet I have 29Mb available, and I have nothing installed at the moment, just had to do a hard restart last night. That's why most of the JREs out there are trimmed down. There may be some exception to that, but I am not aware of it. Your right, there are some with 128Mb these days, and it's possible to hardware-hack them up to 256Mb I believe, but you can't count on having all of it available. A big chunk of it is going to be taken up. Also note that at least with the Windows Mobile 5 devices, there is a difference between RAM and Flash ROM. PPC's used to have one big chunk of memory that would be dynamically allocated between program memory (RAM for all practical purposes) and storage memory. Now though, there really is two physically different things. For instance, My Axim has 256Mb Flash ROM, probably about 210Mb or so of it starts out free. You can think of this as a hard drive for the most part, it's yours to store stuff in (and the OS to a limited degree I believe). There tends to be enough storage space on modern PPCs to do Java and Tomcat and your app, its the RAM where I think you'll run into a problem with. I don't know off hand how much memory Tomcat itself needs, but I'd be willing to bet 29Mb would be kind of tight, and that's not counting the JRE or your app. I definitely think you may want to consider not doing a webapp here, unless the PDAs will always have net connectivity, then you could just write a true webapp tailored somewhat to a PDA. If you need to connect to a server like application on the PDA use some type of a simple TCP/IP protocol you write yourself to handle just what you need. The good news is that PPC programming these days isn't too big a deal... C# is enough like Java that you can probably get by with it. If you do .Net, it won't be too much different than programming for Java. You'd be hard pressed getting less RAM usage out of the .NET Framework when you compare apples to apples (application vs application designed the same and doing the same things). If you are used to Java use it. That of course means your app won't be cross-platform, no Zaurus for example. Dunno if you can get away with that or not. Why would you even bother with .NET if you have Java and a good modularized application. At least with java applications you can reuse some of your classes from your desktop..beans and such. Harder to do with .NET and the Compact and Desktop projects provided by Visual Studio. I have even done this with Sun Java and Super Waba...pretty much copies of files to get the same with .NET if you use your standard toolshave fun writing build scripts. Frank Wade - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
There are, AFAIK, no JDK's for PocketPC (being a PocketPC developer myself, I'm fairly sure about this). So AFAIK is what I need for Tomcat instead of JDK for PocketPC, Right? I can't find anything on AFAIK. Do you know if we have a version of Tomcat built for Linux PocketPC? Thank you so much for your respond. What is your though on using java on PDA instead of other language? What is the alternative language for PDA? Tom There are however a number of JRE's, which is probably all you need. Take a look at this page: http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/~fittond/ppcjava.html Actually, one JDK actually is mentioned, but it appears to really just be a Linux port and would require you do install Linux on your PPC. I'm not as familiar with the Zaurus, but I'd suspect you would have an easier time there finding something since its Linux-based to begin with. However, if it isn't mentioned on the above referenced page, I'm afraid I can't help. Note that many of those listed are trimmed-down JRE's, and they may be missing things that Tomcat needs. They all also appear to be fairly old things and maybe aren't available and/or supported any more. The only one I've personally had any experience with is JEODE, but that was some time ago. I haven't tried Java on a PDA in probably 3 years or so. -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM: fzammetti Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! On Thu, April 13, 2006 3:28 pm, Tom Miller said: Greetings, Do we have a binary version of Tomcat build for PDA (ipaq or sharp zaurus) arm processor? If not can some one help? Does anyone know where I can get a JDK for PDA? Thanks, Tom Original message Date: 13 Apr 2006 19:05:04 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: WELCOME to dev@tomcat.apache.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the dev@tomcat.apache.org mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Acknowledgment: I have added the address [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the dev mailing list. Welcome to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please save this message so that you know the address you are subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your subscription address. --- Administrative commands for the dev list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To remove your address from the list, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Similar addresses exist for the digest list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get messages 123 through 145 (a maximum of 100 per request), mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get an index with subject and author for messages 123- 456 , mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] They are always returned as sets of 100, max 2000 per request, so you'll actually get 100-499. To receive all messages with the same subject as message 12345, send an empty message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The messages do not really need to be empty, but I will ignore their content. Only the ADDRESS you send to is important. You can start a subscription for an alternate address, for example [EMAIL PROTECTED], just add a hyphen and your address (with '=' instead of '@') after the command word: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To stop subscription for this address, mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In both cases, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete your subscription. If despite following these instructions, you do not get the desired results, please contact my owner at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please be patient, my owner is a lot slower than I am ;-) --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 61892 invoked by uid 99); 13 Apr 2006 19:05:04 - Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:05:04 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.217.230.200] (HELO mail.e- integration.net) (192.217.230.200) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:05:03 -0700 Received: from mail.e-integration.net (localhost.e- integration.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.e-integration.net (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id CTM74520; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.1.1.101 by mail.e-integration.net (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with HTTPS/1.1; Thu, 13 Apr
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
IBM's J9 VM is probably the best implementation for running J2ME flavored Java code. http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/zones/wireless/weme_eval_runtimes.html I've been working with it a lot, and it was better than Jeode. The only problem being that it's hard to figure out from IBM where you can just purchase the VM. For the moment you have to download the trial version of their Web Services Device Developer application, which includes the J9 VM. Richard Schilling Cognition Group, Inc. Seattle, WA USA Frank W. Zammetti wrote: There are, AFAIK, no JDK's for PocketPC (being a PocketPC developer myself, I'm fairly sure about this). There are however a number of JRE's, which is probably all you need. Take a look at this page: http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/~fittond/ppcjava.html Actually, one JDK actually is mentioned, but it appears to really just be a Linux port and would require you do install Linux on your PPC. I'm not as familiar with the Zaurus, but I'd suspect you would have an easier time there finding something since its Linux-based to begin with. However, if it isn't mentioned on the above referenced page, I'm afraid I can't help. Note that many of those listed are trimmed-down JRE's, and they may be missing things that Tomcat needs. They all also appear to be fairly old things and maybe aren't available and/or supported any more. The only one I've personally had any experience with is JEODE, but that was some time ago. I haven't tried Java on a PDA in probably 3 years or so. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where did you get the JDK for tomcat?
Compiled it myself, it's pretty easy.
jamvm.sf.net and the classpath project ( I think @fsf.org ).
I actually did a straight compile, not a cross on this case, since I
had the big hdd and usb2, but cross should work fine too.
I don't know what's your use case,
I need a servlet engine.
Well, what do you intend to do with it ? Keep in mind it's going to
use most of the device memory, and will be relatively slow.
Costin
but keep in mind tomcat ( and java
in general ) has a large memory footprint. If all you need
is an HTTP
server - it is better to use only the coyote connector (
with some
custom code ). Or even write your own tiny-http - you really
don't
need support for large concurrency or all the fancy features.
You may get better performances with CVM, which has much
smaller
footprint - but it may not work well with current tomcat.
Java on PDA is very tricky, make sure you have plenty of
memory (
i.e. 64M :-).
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Costin,
Do you have a built version of tomcat and other necessary
requirements information to run on a PDA? What PDA was it?
Please share the information.
Thanks inadvance,
Tom
I tested it with jamvm+classpath on NSLU2, should run fine
on zaurus as well.
Startup time is a bit slow, and memory use is a bit high -
but it
works reasonably
well.
I would suggest the sandbox version for this :-).
The main problem on PDAs is the flash access speed, which
is
much
smaller than HDD,
so size of the jar and number of classes loaded matters a
lot.
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings,
Do we have a binary version of Tomcat build for PDA
(ipaq
or
sharp zaurus) arm processor? If not can some one help?
Does anyone know where I can get a JDK for PDA?
Thanks,
Tom
Original message
Date: 13 Apr 2006 19:05:04 -
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Subject: WELCOME to dev@tomcat.apache.org
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Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
I don't know what's your use case,
I need a servlet engine.
Well, what do you intend to do with it ? Keep in mind it's
going to
use most of the device memory, and will be relatively slow.
I plan to write a small app to process a delivery process.
The app will process the delivery logic, capture digital
signature..etc.
The reason I want the servlet engine due to the fact that
I have been using a combination of tomcat, apache, mysql, jsp
and java on X86 flatform. Perhaps, there is a better way of
doing it I just don't know any better.
You have experience on this. What is your recommendation?
Some of later PDA have 128MRAM, will it be big enough to run
java?
Costin
but keep in mind tomcat ( and java
in general ) has a large memory footprint. If all you need
is an HTTP
server - it is better to use only the coyote connector (
with some
custom code ). Or even write your own tiny-http - you
really
don't
need support for large concurrency or all the fancy
features.
You may get better performances with CVM, which has much
smaller
footprint - but it may not work well with current tomcat.
Java on PDA is very tricky, make sure you have plenty of
memory (
i.e. 64M :-).
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Costin,
Do you have a built version of tomcat and other
necessary
requirements information to run on a PDA? What PDA was
it?
Please share the information.
Thanks inadvance,
Tom
I tested it with jamvm+classpath on NSLU2, should run
fine
on zaurus as well.
Startup time is a bit slow, and memory use is a bit
high -
but it
works reasonably
well.
I would suggest the sandbox version for this :-).
The main problem on PDAs is the flash access speed,
which
is
much
smaller than HDD,
so size of the jar and number of classes loaded
matters a
lot.
Costin
On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings,
Do we have a binary version of Tomcat build for PDA
(ipaq
or
sharp zaurus) arm processor? If not can some one
help?
Does anyone know where I can get a JDK for PDA?
Thanks,
Tom
Original message
Date: 13 Apr 2006 19:05:04 -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: WELCOME to dev@tomcat.apache.org
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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2006
Re: Tomcat JDK for PDA arm processor
Nearly every PDA with that much RAM doesn't actually have that much RAM... the problem is, WinCE itself uses up a lot of it. For instance, I sit here with my Dell Axim x51v with 64Mb, yet I have 29Mb available, and I have nothing installed at the moment, just had to do a hard restart last night. That's why most of the JREs out there are trimmed down. There may be some exception to that, but I am not aware of it. Your right, there are some with 128Mb these days, and it's possible to hardware-hack them up to 256Mb I believe, but you can't count on having all of it available. A big chunk of it is going to be taken up. Also note that at least with the Windows Mobile 5 devices, there is a difference between RAM and Flash ROM. PPC's used to have one big chunk of memory that would be dynamically allocated between program memory (RAM for all practical purposes) and storage memory. Now though, there really is two physically different things. For instance, My Axim has 256Mb Flash ROM, probably about 210Mb or so of it starts out free. You can think of this as a hard drive for the most part, it's yours to store stuff in (and the OS to a limited degree I believe). There tends to be enough storage space on modern PPCs to do Java and Tomcat and your app, its the RAM where I think you'll run into a problem with. I don't know off hand how much memory Tomcat itself needs, but I'd be willing to bet 29Mb would be kind of tight, and that's not counting the JRE or your app. I definitely think you may want to consider not doing a webapp here, unless the PDAs will always have net connectivity, then you could just write a true webapp tailored somewhat to a PDA. The good news is that PPC programming these days isn't too big a deal... C# is enough like Java that you can probably get by with it. If you do .Net, it won't be too much different than programming for Java. That of course means your app won't be cross-platform, no Zaurus for example. Dunno if you can get away with that or not. Frank Tom Miller wrote: I don't know what's your use case, I need a servlet engine. Well, what do you intend to do with it ? Keep in mind it's going to use most of the device memory, and will be relatively slow. I plan to write a small app to process a delivery process. The app will process the delivery logic, capture digital signature..etc. The reason I want the servlet engine due to the fact that I have been using a combination of tomcat, apache, mysql, jsp and java on X86 flatform. Perhaps, there is a better way of doing it I just don't know any better. You have experience on this. What is your recommendation? Some of later PDA have 128MRAM, will it be big enough to run java? Costin but keep in mind tomcat ( and java in general ) has a large memory footprint. If all you need is an HTTP server - it is better to use only the coyote connector ( with some custom code ). Or even write your own tiny-http - you really don't need support for large concurrency or all the fancy features. You may get better performances with CVM, which has much smaller footprint - but it may not work well with current tomcat. Java on PDA is very tricky, make sure you have plenty of memory ( i.e. 64M :-). Costin On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin, Do you have a built version of tomcat and other necessary requirements information to run on a PDA? What PDA was it? Please share the information. Thanks inadvance, Tom I tested it with jamvm+classpath on NSLU2, should run fine on zaurus as well. Startup time is a bit slow, and memory use is a bit high - but it works reasonably well. I would suggest the sandbox version for this :-). The main problem on PDAs is the flash access speed, which is much smaller than HDD, so size of the jar and number of classes loaded matters a lot. Costin On 4/13/06, Tom Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Do we have a binary version of Tomcat build for PDA (ipaq or sharp zaurus) arm processor? If not can some one help? Does anyone know where I can get a JDK for PDA? Thanks, Tom Original message Date: 13 Apr 2006 19:05:04 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: WELCOME to dev@tomcat.apache.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the dev@tomcat.apache.org mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Acknowledgment: I have added the address [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the dev mailing list. Welcome to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please save this message so that you know the address you are subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your subscription address. --- Administrative commands for the dev list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: To subscribe to the list,
