Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
BTW I'd rather keep the current solution as it is and discuss releasing Wicket
8 :)
Sven
Am 29. März 2018 07:49:02 MESZ schrieb Sven Meier :
>It's perfectly fine to use whatever tool gets the job done. People say
>how to do it instead, but no one has to follow the advice.
>
>IMHO it's something different for a framework to offer an API on top of
>a something that doesn't even work reliably:
>Wicket's browser detection is using regex-matching on identifiers
>generated by browsers to make it difficult to be detected :P.
>
>Regarding integrating of mentioned libraries:
>
> LibraryXY.browser(clientInfo.getUserAgent()).supportsZ()
>
>I don't see a benefit of having that in Wicket or wicketstuff.
>Integrating modernizr might be more interesting, but I doubt many
>people need browser detection on the server.
>
>Have fun
>Sven
>
>
>
>Am 29. März 2018 04:34:00 MESZ schrieb Maxim Solodovnik
>:
>>"you would use feature detection" - unfortunately it doesn't work
>>Good real-life example is WebRtc: you can check it is supported,
>>then you need to know which browser your client is using (Plan A,
>>Plan B, Universal, "Safari way")
>>
>>Another example wmode for , FF acts differently,
>>
>>so I really miss "which-browser" feature detection
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:31 AM, Korbinian Bachl
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> - Ursprüngliche Mail -
> even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-
> browser-sniffing-stinks/
> and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented
>>modernizr
> has to say:
> http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-
> how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/
>
>
I do not trust anyone who says "don't do it this way" but doesn't
>>say how
to do it!
There are several of "if (isBrowserX()) {...} else {...}" in Wicket
>>JS code
and they served well for the last decade.
Since there are several other *Java* libraries for user agent
>>detection
this means that someone still finds them useful despite what other
>>people
claim.
>>>
>>> unreliable things wont get reliably by pointing into the past and
>>then telling that your fater did it the same way
>>>
>>> nowadays you would use feature detection, see:
>>>
>>>
>>https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Feature_detection
>>>
> btw:
> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL,
>>guess
> why...
> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases ->
>>last
> release from september 2017...
>
>
Sep 2017 is like yesterday
>>>
>>> (all only MAJOR releases!)
>>>
>>> 28. September 2017 - Firefox 56
>>> 14. November 2017 - Firefox 57 Quantum
>>> 23. Januar 2018 - Firefox 58
>>> 13. März 2018 - Firefox 59
>>>
>>> 2017-09-05 - Chrome 61.0.3163
>>> 2017-10-17 - Chrome 62.0.3202
>>> 2017-12-05 - Chrome 63.0.3239
>>> 2018-01-23 - Chrome 64.0.3282
>>> 2018-03-06 - Chrome 65.0.3325
>>>
>>> and this is just 2 desktop ones! I dont want to talk about the loads
>>of updates my android device got in that time (firefox mobile, chrome
>>and samsung internet!) - oh, and btw: they still lie about the user
>>agent all time dont get me wrong, but sep 17 is freaking old in
>>case you need to reliably detect the browser!
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>WBR
>>Maxim aka solomax
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
It's perfectly fine to use whatever tool gets the job done. People say how to
do it instead, but no one has to follow the advice.
IMHO it's something different for a framework to offer an API on top of a
something that doesn't even work reliably:
Wicket's browser detection is using regex-matching on identifiers generated by
browsers to make it difficult to be detected :P.
Regarding integrating of mentioned libraries:
LibraryXY.browser(clientInfo.getUserAgent()).supportsZ()
I don't see a benefit of having that in Wicket or wicketstuff.
Integrating modernizr might be more interesting, but I doubt many people need
browser detection on the server.
Have fun
Sven
Am 29. März 2018 04:34:00 MESZ schrieb Maxim Solodovnik :
>"you would use feature detection" - unfortunately it doesn't work
>Good real-life example is WebRtc: you can check it is supported,
>then you need to know which browser your client is using (Plan A,
>Plan B, Universal, "Safari way")
>
>Another example wmode for , FF acts differently,
>
>so I really miss "which-browser" feature detection
>
>On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:31 AM, Korbinian Bachl
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> - Ursprüngliche Mail -
even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-
browser-sniffing-stinks/
and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented
>modernizr
has to say:
http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-
how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/
>>> I do not trust anyone who says "don't do it this way" but doesn't
>say how
>>> to do it!
>>>
>>> There are several of "if (isBrowserX()) {...} else {...}" in Wicket
>JS code
>>> and they served well for the last decade.
>>> Since there are several other *Java* libraries for user agent
>detection
>>> this means that someone still finds them useful despite what other
>people
>>> claim.
>>
>> unreliable things wont get reliably by pointing into the past and
>then telling that your fater did it the same way
>>
>> nowadays you would use feature detection, see:
>>
>>
>https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Feature_detection
>>
>>>
>>>
btw:
https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL,
>guess
why...
https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases ->
>last
release from september 2017...
>>> Sep 2017 is like yesterday
>>
>> (all only MAJOR releases!)
>>
>> 28. September 2017 - Firefox 56
>> 14. November 2017 - Firefox 57 Quantum
>> 23. Januar 2018 - Firefox 58
>> 13. März 2018 - Firefox 59
>>
>> 2017-09-05 - Chrome 61.0.3163
>> 2017-10-17 - Chrome 62.0.3202
>> 2017-12-05 - Chrome 63.0.3239
>> 2018-01-23 - Chrome 64.0.3282
>> 2018-03-06 - Chrome 65.0.3325
>>
>> and this is just 2 desktop ones! I dont want to talk about the loads
>of updates my android device got in that time (firefox mobile, chrome
>and samsung internet!) - oh, and btw: they still lie about the user
>agent all time dont get me wrong, but sep 17 is freaking old in
>case you need to reliably detect the browser!
>
>
>
>--
>WBR
>Maxim aka solomax
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
"you would use feature detection" - unfortunately it doesn't work
Good real-life example is WebRtc: you can check it is supported,
then you need to know which browser your client is using (Plan A,
Plan B, Universal, "Safari way")
Another example wmode for , FF acts differently,
so I really miss "which-browser" feature detection
On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:31 AM, Korbinian Bachl
wrote:
>
>
> - Ursprüngliche Mail -
>>> even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-
>>> browser-sniffing-stinks/
>>> and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr
>>> has to say:
>>> http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-
>>> how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/
>>>
>>>
>> I do not trust anyone who says "don't do it this way" but doesn't say how
>> to do it!
>>
>> There are several of "if (isBrowserX()) {...} else {...}" in Wicket JS code
>> and they served well for the last decade.
>> Since there are several other *Java* libraries for user agent detection
>> this means that someone still finds them useful despite what other people
>> claim.
>
> unreliable things wont get reliably by pointing into the past and then
> telling that your fater did it the same way
>
> nowadays you would use feature detection, see:
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Feature_detection
>
>>
>>
>>> btw:
>>> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess
>>> why...
>>> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last
>>> release from september 2017...
>>>
>>>
>> Sep 2017 is like yesterday
>
> (all only MAJOR releases!)
>
> 28. September 2017 - Firefox 56
> 14. November 2017 - Firefox 57 Quantum
> 23. Januar 2018 - Firefox 58
> 13. März 2018 - Firefox 59
>
> 2017-09-05 - Chrome 61.0.3163
> 2017-10-17 - Chrome 62.0.3202
> 2017-12-05 - Chrome 63.0.3239
> 2018-01-23 - Chrome 64.0.3282
> 2018-03-06 - Chrome 65.0.3325
>
> and this is just 2 desktop ones! I dont want to talk about the loads of
> updates my android device got in that time (firefox mobile, chrome and
> samsung internet!) - oh, and btw: they still lie about the user agent all
> time dont get me wrong, but sep 17 is freaking old in case you need to
> reliably detect the browser!
--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
- Ursprüngliche Mail -
>> even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-
>> browser-sniffing-stinks/
>> and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr
>> has to say:
>> http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-
>> how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/
>>
>>
> I do not trust anyone who says "don't do it this way" but doesn't say how
> to do it!
>
> There are several of "if (isBrowserX()) {...} else {...}" in Wicket JS code
> and they served well for the last decade.
> Since there are several other *Java* libraries for user agent detection
> this means that someone still finds them useful despite what other people
> claim.
unreliable things wont get reliably by pointing into the past and then telling
that your fater did it the same way
nowadays you would use feature detection, see:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Feature_detection
>
>
>> btw:
>> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess
>> why...
>> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last
>> release from september 2017...
>>
>>
> Sep 2017 is like yesterday
(all only MAJOR releases!)
28. September 2017 - Firefox 56
14. November 2017 - Firefox 57 Quantum
23. Januar 2018 - Firefox 58
13. März 2018 - Firefox 59
2017-09-05 - Chrome 61.0.3163
2017-10-17 - Chrome 62.0.3202
2017-12-05 - Chrome 63.0.3239
2018-01-23 - Chrome 64.0.3282
2018-03-06 - Chrome 65.0.3325
and this is just 2 desktop ones! I dont want to talk about the loads of updates
my android device got in that time (firefox mobile, chrome and samsung
internet!) - oh, and btw: they still lie about the user agent all time dont
get me wrong, but sep 17 is freaking old in case you need to reliably detect
the browser!
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 7:19 PM, Korbinian Bachl <
korbinian.ba...@whiskyworld.de> wrote:
> IMHO: its 2018 and any browser sniffing has to be dropped at all, as it
> has no use anyway and its not working reliable... what for do we need this
> at all?
>
> even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-
> browser-sniffing-stinks/
> and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr
> has to say:
> http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-
> how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/
>
>
I do not trust anyone who says "don't do it this way" but doesn't say how
to do it!
There are several of "if (isBrowserX()) {...} else {...}" in Wicket JS code
and they served well for the last decade.
Since there are several other *Java* libraries for user agent detection
this means that someone still finds them useful despite what other people
claim.
> btw:
> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess
> why...
> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last
> release from september 2017...
>
>
Sep 2017 is like yesterday
>
> - Ursprüngliche Mail -
> > Von: "Maxim Solodovnik"
> > An: dev@wicket.apache.org
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. März 2018 18:04:03
> > Betreff: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this
> task
> > Here are some examples:
> > https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or
> > https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils
> >
> > WDYT
> >
> > --
> > WBR
> > Maxim aka solomax
>
[GitHub] wicket pull request #270: [WICKET-6533] Unicode non-characters are skipped
GitHub user solomax opened a pull request: https://github.com/apache/wicket/pull/270 [WICKET-6533] Unicode non-characters are skipped You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running: $ git pull https://github.com/apache/wicket WICKET-6533-non-characters Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at: https://github.com/apache/wicket/pull/270.patch To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch with (at least) the following in the commit message: This closes #270 commit b85f5c0202439b404028470883f8353a44a2e034 Author: Maxim Solodovnik Date: 2018-03-28T17:47:08Z [WICKET-6533] Unicode non-characters are skipped ---
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
It is always good to know you are working with IE :))) I would review detected browser list (for ex. to match this list: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/AudioNode#Browser_compatibility) It always can be implemented as tiny module at wicketstuff On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Sven Meier wrote: > I agree with Korbinian: IMHO we should drop that feature. > > Sven > > > > Am 28.03.2018 um 18:35 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik: >> >> I also noticed all libraries are old :( >> >> Not sure "Drop this feature" is great idea >> Some users (including me) might find it useful :)) >> >> BTW why do we have both? >> isBrowserMozilla()) >> isBrowserMozillaFirefox() >> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:19 PM, Korbinian Bachl >> wrote: >>> >>> IMHO: its 2018 and any browser sniffing has to be dropped at all, as it >>> has no use anyway and its not working reliable... what for do we need this >>> at all? >>> >>> even in 2009 it was considered bad: >>> https://www.sitepoint.com/why-browser-sniffing-stinks/ >>> and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr >>> has to say: >>> >>> http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/ >>> >>> >>> btw: >>> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess >>> why... >>> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last >>> release from september 2017... >>> >>> >>> - Ursprüngliche Mail - Von: "Maxim Solodovnik" An: dev@wicket.apache.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. März 2018 18:04:03 Betreff: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection Hello All, While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this task Here are some examples: https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils WDYT -- WBR Maxim aka solomax >> >> >> > -- WBR Maxim aka solomax
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
I agree with Korbinian: IMHO we should drop that feature. Sven Am 28.03.2018 um 18:35 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik: I also noticed all libraries are old :( Not sure "Drop this feature" is great idea Some users (including me) might find it useful :)) BTW why do we have both? isBrowserMozilla()) isBrowserMozillaFirefox() On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:19 PM, Korbinian Bachl wrote: IMHO: its 2018 and any browser sniffing has to be dropped at all, as it has no use anyway and its not working reliable... what for do we need this at all? even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-browser-sniffing-stinks/ and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr has to say: http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/ btw: https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess why... https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last release from september 2017... - Ursprüngliche Mail - Von: "Maxim Solodovnik" An: dev@wicket.apache.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. März 2018 18:04:03 Betreff: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection Hello All, While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this task Here are some examples: https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils WDYT -- WBR Maxim aka solomax
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
I also noticed all libraries are old :( Not sure "Drop this feature" is great idea Some users (including me) might find it useful :)) BTW why do we have both? isBrowserMozilla()) isBrowserMozillaFirefox() On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:19 PM, Korbinian Bachl wrote: > IMHO: its 2018 and any browser sniffing has to be dropped at all, as it has > no use anyway and its not working reliable... what for do we need this at all? > > even in 2009 it was considered bad: > https://www.sitepoint.com/why-browser-sniffing-stinks/ > and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr has > to say: > http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/ > > > btw: > https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess why... > https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last release > from september 2017... > > > - Ursprüngliche Mail - >> Von: "Maxim Solodovnik" >> An: dev@wicket.apache.org >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. März 2018 18:04:03 >> Betreff: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection > >> Hello All, >> >> While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this task >> Here are some examples: >> https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or >> https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils >> >> WDYT >> >> -- >> WBR >> Maxim aka solomax -- WBR Maxim aka solomax
[GitHub] wicket issue #269: [WICKET-6544] mobile browser detection is improved
Github user kbachl commented on the issue: https://github.com/apache/wicket/pull/269 drop this "feature" completely - it just wont work reliable anyway ---
Re: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
IMHO: its 2018 and any browser sniffing has to be dropped at all, as it has no use anyway and its not working reliable... what for do we need this at all? even in 2009 it was considered bad: https://www.sitepoint.com/why-browser-sniffing-stinks/ and in case that is not enough, read what the guy that invented modernizr has to say: http://farukat.es/journal/2011/02/499-lest-we-forget-or-how-i-learned-whats-so-bad-about-browser-sniffing/ btw: https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils -> this is EOL, guess why... https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection/releases -> last release from september 2017... - Ursprüngliche Mail - > Von: "Maxim Solodovnik" > An: dev@wicket.apache.org > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. März 2018 18:04:03 > Betreff: [DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection > Hello All, > > While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this task > Here are some examples: > https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or > https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils > > WDYT > > -- > WBR > Maxim aka solomax
[DISCUSSION] WICKET-6544 mobile browser detection
Hello All, While reviewing WICKET-6544 Martin propose to use JS library for this task Here are some examples: https://github.com/pieroxy/java-user-agent-detection or https://github.com/HaraldWalker/user-agent-utils WDYT -- WBR Maxim aka solomax
