Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Mike de Boer]

Congratulations to all!

This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, definitely 
worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?

Is this expected to have an impact on Talos numbers? I’d expect them to 
improve, but that probably also depends on the hardware used for the Talos 
infrastructure.

Cheers,

Mike.

> On 12 Mar 2015, at 02:12, Mason Chang  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Project Silk (http://www.masonchang.com/blog/2015/1/22/project-silk), which 
> aligns rendering to vsync, will be landing over the next couple of weeks (bug 
> 1071275). You should expect smoother animations and scrolling while browsing 
> the web. It'll land in 4 parts, with the vsync compositor on OS X landing 
> today. We'll start landing the vsync compositor on Windows a week or two from 
> now, then the vsync refresh driver's on OSX and Windows a week or two after 
> the vsync compositor. If you have any issues, please file bugs and make them 
> block bug 1071275.
> 
> Thanks to Jerry Shih, Benoit Girard, Kartikaya Gupta, Jeff Muizelaar, and 
> Markus Stange for helping get this on desktop!
> 
> Thanks,
> Mason
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Mason Chang]

Hi Mike,

> This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, definitely 
> worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?

We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news and 
received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing another 
one.

> Is this expected to have an impact on Talos numbers? I’d expect them to 
> improve, but that probably also depends on the hardware used for the Talos 
> infrastructure.

There are a few cases where talos numbers changed, but I don’t expect a big 
change. Software timers were already going at the same rate as hardware vsync, 
just not as accurately. Talos usually measures how fast we do something. Since 
we technically should be rendering at the same rate, just more precisely, the 
numbers should be more stable, but not necessarily better. We don’t have a lot 
of talos numbers on smoothness yet, but separate tests which specifically 
measure smoothness do improve.

Mason

> On Mar 12, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Mike de Boer  wrote:
> 
> Congratulations to all!
> 
> This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, definitely 
> worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
> 
> Is this expected to have an impact on Talos numbers? I’d expect them to 
> improve, but that probably also depends on the hardware used for the Talos 
> infrastructure.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike.
> 
>> On 12 Mar 2015, at 02:12, Mason Chang  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Project Silk (http://www.masonchang.com/blog/2015/1/22/project-silk), which 
>> aligns rendering to vsync, will be landing over the next couple of weeks 
>> (bug 1071275). You should expect smoother animations and scrolling while 
>> browsing the web. It'll land in 4 parts, with the vsync compositor on OS X 
>> landing today. We'll start landing the vsync compositor on Windows a week or 
>> two from now, then the vsync refresh driver's on OSX and Windows a week or 
>> two after the vsync compositor. If you have any issues, please file bugs and 
>> make them block bug 1071275.
>> 
>> Thanks to Jerry Shih, Benoit Girard, Kartikaya Gupta, Jeff Muizelaar, and 
>> Markus Stange for helping get this on desktop!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mason
>> ___
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> 

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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Gervase Markham]

On 11/03/15 18:12, Mason Chang wrote:
> Project Silk (http://www.masonchang.com/blog/2015/1/22/project-silk),
> which aligns rendering to vsync, will be landing over the next couple
> of weeks (bug 1071275). You should expect smoother animations and
> scrolling while browsing the web. It'll land in 4 parts, with the
> vsync compositor on OS X landing today. We'll start landing the vsync
> compositor on Windows a week or two from now, then the vsync refresh
> driver's on OSX and Windows a week or two after the vsync compositor.
> If you have any issues, please file bugs and make them block bug
> 1071275.

ObQuestion: what about Linux? :-)

Gerv
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Milan Sreckovic]

Sure - you’ll notice that ordering follows the introduction of OMTC on 
different desktop platforms, and there is only some randomness in that, and you 
may have seen a recent announcement of OMTC on Linux imminent landing.
—
- Milan



On Mar 12, 2015, at 16:16 , Gervase Markham  wrote:

> On 11/03/15 18:12, Mason Chang wrote:
>> Project Silk (http://www.masonchang.com/blog/2015/1/22/project-silk),
>> which aligns rendering to vsync, will be landing over the next couple
>> of weeks (bug 1071275). You should expect smoother animations and
>> scrolling while browsing the web. It'll land in 4 parts, with the
>> vsync compositor on OS X landing today. We'll start landing the vsync
>> compositor on Windows a week or two from now, then the vsync refresh
>> driver's on OSX and Windows a week or two after the vsync compositor.
>> If you have any issues, please file bugs and make them block bug
>> 1071275.
> 
> ObQuestion: what about Linux? :-)
> 
> Gerv
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Robert O'Callahan]

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Mason Chang  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> > This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline,
> definitely worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
>
> We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news
> and received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing
> another one.
>

Isn't hackernews and 10K views on h.m.o a *good * thing?

Rob
-- 
oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo
owohooo
osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o o‘oRoaocoao,o’o
oioso
oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo
owohooo
osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro
ooofo
otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Mason Chang]

Yeah it is, but I don’t really want to do another PR run when lots of people 
have already read about Silk on b2g. Feels spammy to me to do another one just 
a month after the previous one, but that’s my 2 cents.

Mason

> On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Robert O'Callahan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Mason Chang  > wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> 
> > This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, 
> > definitely worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
> 
> We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news and 
> received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing 
> another one.
> 
> Isn't hackernews and 10K views on h.m.o a *good * thing?
> 
> Rob
> -- 
> oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
> owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
> osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo owohooo
> osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o o‘oRoaocoao,o’o 
> oioso
> oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo 
> owohooo
> osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro ooofo
> otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.

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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Robert O'Callahan]

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Mason Chang  wrote:

> Yeah it is, but I don’t really want to do another PR run when lots of
> people have already read about Silk on b2g. Feels spammy to me to do
> another one just a month after the previous one, but that’s my 2 cents.
>

I see, makes sense.

Rob
-- 
oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo
owohooo
osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o o‘oRoaocoao,o’o
oioso
oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo
owohooo
osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro
ooofo
otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Jared Wein]

Within the small circle of Mozilla contributors it may feel spammy or
repetitive, but I wouldn't be surprised for people outside of the Mozilla
project to think of b2g and Firefox desktop as both separate userbases and
separate impacts.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mason Chang  wrote:

> Yeah it is, but I don’t really want to do another PR run when lots of
> people have already read about Silk on b2g. Feels spammy to me to do
> another one just a month after the previous one, but that’s my 2 cents.
>
> Mason
>
> > On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Robert O'Callahan 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Mason Chang  > wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > > This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline,
> definitely worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
> >
> > We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news
> and received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing
> another one.
> >
> > Isn't hackernews and 10K views on h.m.o a *good * thing?
> >
> > Rob
> > --
> > oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
> > owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
> > osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo
> owohooo
> > osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o
> o‘oRoaocoao,o’o oioso
> > oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo
> owohooo
> > osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro
> ooofo
> > otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.
>
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Mike de Boer]

Yeah, Jared makes a good point - exactly the reason why I reacted so 
enthusiastically to this announcement is that I’d never heard of Project Silk, 
even though I read HN (headlines, not comments ;-) ) on a daily basis. Or maybe 
it did, but perhaps it being all about B2G and sort of like ‘Android-parity’ 
kinda thing made me skip the item.

Regardless, anything cool hitting Fx Desktop - our most-used product - is 
worthy of a special treatment. IMHO.

> On 13 Mar 2015, at 02:22, Jared Wein  wrote:
> 
> Within the small circle of Mozilla contributors it may feel spammy or 
> repetitive, but I wouldn't be surprised for people outside of the Mozilla 
> project to think of b2g and Firefox desktop as both separate userbases and 
> separate impacts.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mason Chang  > wrote:
> Yeah it is, but I don’t really want to do another PR run when lots of people 
> have already read about Silk on b2g. Feels spammy to me to do another one 
> just a month after the previous one, but that’s my 2 cents.
> 
> Mason
> 
> > On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Robert O'Callahan  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Mason Chang  >   > >> wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > > This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, 
> > > definitely worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
> >
> > We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news 
> > and received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing 
> > another one.
> >
> > Isn't hackernews and 10K views on h.m.o a *good * thing?
> >
> > Rob
> > --
> > oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
> > owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
> > osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo 
> > owohooo
> > osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o o‘oRoaocoao,o’o 
> > oioso
> > oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo 
> > owohooo
> > osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro 
> > ooofo
> > otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.
> 
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Mike Conley]

Perhaps its worth talking to comms to get their input on whether or not
it's a good time.

But I have to agree with Jared and Mike - I think showing progress,
especially on the part of performance (perceived or not) can only be a
good thing.

-Mike

On 13/03/2015 5:17 AM, Mike de Boer wrote:
> Yeah, Jared makes a good point - exactly the reason why I reacted so 
> enthusiastically to this announcement is that I’d never heard of Project 
> Silk, even though I read HN (headlines, not comments ;-) ) on a daily basis. 
> Or maybe it did, but perhaps it being all about B2G and sort of like 
> ‘Android-parity’ kinda thing made me skip the item.
> 
> Regardless, anything cool hitting Fx Desktop - our most-used product - is 
> worthy of a special treatment. IMHO.
> 
>> On 13 Mar 2015, at 02:22, Jared Wein  wrote:
>>
>> Within the small circle of Mozilla contributors it may feel spammy or 
>> repetitive, but I wouldn't be surprised for people outside of the Mozilla 
>> project to think of b2g and Firefox desktop as both separate userbases and 
>> separate impacts.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mason Chang > > wrote:
>> Yeah it is, but I don’t really want to do another PR run when lots of people 
>> have already read about Silk on b2g. Feels spammy to me to do another one 
>> just a month after the previous one, but that’s my 2 cents.
>>
>> Mason
>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Robert O'Callahan >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Mason Chang >>  >> >> wrote:
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
 This sounds like a massive improvement to our rendering pipeline, 
 definitely worth of some PR effort! Is that being considered?
>>>
>>> We’ve had a PR effort before when Silk landed on b2g. It hit hacker news 
>>> and received over 10K views IIRC on mozilla hacks, so I’m not keen on doing 
>>> another one.
>>>
>>> Isn't hackernews and 10K views on h.m.o a *good * thing?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> --
>>> oIo otoeololo oyooouo otohoaoto oaonoyooonoeo owohooo oioso oaonogoroyo
>>> owoiotoho oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro owoiololo oboeo
>>> osouobojoeocoto otooo ojouodogomoeonoto.o oAogoaoiono,o oaonoyooonoeo 
>>> owohooo
>>> osoaoyoso otooo oao oboroootohoeoro oooro osoiosotoeoro,o o‘oRoaocoao,o’o 
>>> oioso
>>> oaonosowoeoroaoboloeo otooo otohoeo ocooouoroto.o oAonodo oaonoyooonoeo 
>>> owohooo
>>> osoaoyoso,o o‘oYooouo ofolo!o’o owoiololo oboeo oiono odoaonogoeoro 
>>> ooofo
>>> otohoeo ofoioroeo ooofo ohoeololo.
>>
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Re: Project Silk on Desktop

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Mike Conley  wrote:
> Perhaps its worth talking to comms to get their input on whether or not
> it's a good time.
>
> But I have to agree with Jared and Mike - I think showing progress,
> especially on the part of performance (perceived or not) can only be a
> good thing.

+1 from me, Project Silk had fallen off my radar even although I'm a
pretty close follower of the Mozilla/Firefox ecosystem.

So although the initial impression has been less than stellar (bug
1142957), I'm pretty excited.

Cheers,

Dirkjan
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