Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 14:03, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > James Cassell wrote: > > When I asked, the answer was that it costs money to do custom redirects, > > and the old site is going away "soon" so it would be overcome by events > > sooner or later. > > This just shows how bad an idea it is to rely on third-party-hosted > services. If this were self-hosted Free Software on Fedora Infrastructure > (e.g., a self-hosted version of Discourse), changing the error page would be > a relatively small patch and cost absolutely nothing. > > So why does Fedora let commercial third parties host critical project > infrastructure on the fedoraproject.org domain? > These systems are not small tasks to keep up and running.. the upstream code is not 'static' or backportable so you are constantly updating to upstream to keep up with CVE security. There are also regular schema changes and a ton of packaging items which need someone who is going to become a discourse expert to run. Our experience has been that we either end up having a system which is broken a lot because it isn't being maintained or is taking up so much time that Fedora people complain we aren't working on getting a compose out the door. So instead we decided to invest money into a company which pays the authors of discourse (and we previously paid the person who wrote askbot). That means we do lose absolute control but we do fund the upstream. -- Stephen J Smoogen. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > James Cassell wrote: > > When I asked, the answer was that it costs money to do custom redirects, > > and the old site is going away "soon" so it would be overcome by events > > sooner or later. > > This just shows how bad an idea it is to rely on third-party-hosted > services. If this were self-hosted Free Software on Fedora Infrastructure > (e.g., a self-hosted version of Discourse), changing the error page would be > a relatively small patch and cost absolutely nothing. > To be fair, the error page does (now) suggest the old site, but it's not a redirect. Most users may be able to figure it out; I'm not convinced search engines will. > So why does Fedora let commercial third parties host critical project > infrastructure on the fedoraproject.org domain? > The argument I've seen is limited community resources to do the work. (For this reason, there's push to only self-host core competencies, and even whispers of stopping Pagure development.) V/r, James Cassell ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
James Cassell wrote: > When I asked, the answer was that it costs money to do custom redirects, > and the old site is going away "soon" so it would be overcome by events > sooner or later. This just shows how bad an idea it is to rely on third-party-hosted services. If this were self-hosted Free Software on Fedora Infrastructure (e.g., a self-hosted version of Discourse), changing the error page would be a relatively small patch and cost absolutely nothing. So why does Fedora let commercial third parties host critical project infrastructure on the fedoraproject.org domain? Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Review Request for OpenCASCADE
Please, see vitetris: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1765917 On 02/11/19 14:16, Richard Shaw wrote: > I knew the day would come and it finally did. After OpenCASCADE changed > to a true FOSS license the OCE (OpenCASCADE Community Edition) stopped > releasing new versions and is now way out of date and no longer > functions properly with FreeCAD. > > I can do a review in exchange if needed. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1768090 > > Thanks, > Richard > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- --- Antonio Trande Fedora Project mailto 'sagitter at fedoraproject dot org' GPG key: 0x6e0331dd1699e4d7 GPG key server: https://keys.openpgp.org/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Review Request for OpenCASCADE
I knew the day would come and it finally did. After OpenCASCADE changed to a true FOSS license the OCE (OpenCASCADE Community Edition) stopped releasing new versions and is now way out of date and no longer functions properly with FreeCAD. I can do a review in exchange if needed. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1768090 Thanks, Richard ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apache Yetus
Hi! I'm working with Apache Zookeeper package [1], trying to update to the last Fedora versions. The last version of Zookeeper is using Apache Yetus [2] for Javadocs annotations (Yetus Audience Annotations). Yetus artifacts are totally missing in Fedora packages (no Yetus package at all). Is there any other package with this dependency, or alternative workaround? Otherwise, the solution is to include Yetus in Fedora? Many thanks! [1] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/zookeeper [2] https://yetus.apache.org/ -- Javi Roman Twitter: @javiromanrh GitHub: github.com/javiroman Linkedin: es.linkedin.com/in/javiroman Big Data Blog: dataintensive.info Apache Id: javiroman ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 10:51:08 +0100, Markus Larsson wrote: > > If this has made you feel bad I apologize. I mean you no harm in any way. > Clearly my tone has been off here since I managed to offend you. No worries. I am sorry too---my tone wasn't the best either. -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On 2 November 2019 10:18:20 CET, Ankur Sinha wrote: >On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 09:23:37 +0100, Markus Larsson wrote: >> Not having this planned for and sorted before the change is sloppy. >> Sadly this kind of attitude towards breakage in a production >> environment seems makes fedora look bad and like we as a community >> can't even keep simple services working. It seems the whole move to >> discourse thing was done without proper planning. > >> Do we not follow any type of change procedures? > >I hate to break your bubble here, but the move took months of planning: >https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issues?status=Closed&tags=C%3A+AskFedora >https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/91 Clearly planning missed since 404 message had to be fixed after the fact. This doesn't mean that everyone is bad etc, please keep issue and person separate. It just means that this wasn't a successful change but rather a learning opportunity. > >was set up at askbeta.fp.o first: >https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/moving-ask-fedora-to-discourse-phase-2-request-for-beta-testing/ > >and was announced when moved over later: >https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/askfedora-refresh-weve-moved-to-discourse/ > >Here's a summary: > >- we did not host askbot, and we do not host discourse. This is because > we do not have the manpower to maintain/update/tweak the > infrastructure required to host these. So, we pay them to host the > instances for us. When choosing to use use the same URL as an existing service one plans for trouble. > > This means that we *do not* have access to the servers---no control > over the lower level server configurations. All we can change are > settings from the GUI admin panel that discourse provides. This does > not provide the ability to set up redirects. The plaintext on the 404 > page can be changed, that is all. This is a red herring. Rewriting 404 messages had to be done after the fact since it was missed in the initial change. The 404 messages was only needed because of URL reuse. > >- Even if we did have access to the servers, there is no clean/easy way > of migrating data from askbot to discourse. Resources would have to be > spent on cleaning/anonymisation/user-mapping/badge-karma > mapping/importing. We did not the required man-power to do this. I didn't say data has to be migrated. > >So, what we have now is what could be achieved with the man power that >we obtained from volunteers in the community, and with the technical >limitations that we had to work with. > >We've spent a lot of time explaining this to our users, many of who had >not read the CoC and used similar negative tones to demand that >everything be moved over, or simply state how bad a job we had done. > >https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/where-have-the-old-posts-gone/655/45 >https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/hello-everyone-what-do-you-think/138/5 > >With users, even though not enjoyable, it was understandable---they are >not aware of how the community works and its limitations. Such tones on >the -devel list within the community are less easy to digest. > >Maybe assume that we are slightly knowledgable and competent, did the >planning and the thinking (and we certainly did the work), and this is >simply the best that was possible within the given parameters? That is >certainly more in line with "be excellent to each other" than what you >are saying now. If this has made you feel bad I apologize. I mean you no harm in any way. Clearly my tone has been off here since I managed to offend you. > >Even though I will not participate in this again, please feel free to >continue the discussion---if folks want to improve AskFedora, please >host a test discourse instance, see what can be tweaked from the admin >panel, and suggest improvements. We have a specific category for that: >https://ask.fedoraproject.org/c/site-feedback ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: List of Python 2 packages to be removed mid-November
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 16:24:02 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote: > ankursinha > python-tasklib > (BuildRequires: python2-pytz → PY2) Thanks for removing the BR Miro. tasklib looks OK for py3 now. -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 09:23:37 +0100, Markus Larsson wrote: > Not having this planned for and sorted before the change is sloppy. > Sadly this kind of attitude towards breakage in a production > environment seems makes fedora look bad and like we as a community > can't even keep simple services working. It seems the whole move to > discourse thing was done without proper planning. > Do we not follow any type of change procedures? I hate to break your bubble here, but the move took months of planning: https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issues?status=Closed&tags=C%3A+AskFedora https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/91 was set up at askbeta.fp.o first: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/moving-ask-fedora-to-discourse-phase-2-request-for-beta-testing/ and was announced when moved over later: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/askfedora-refresh-weve-moved-to-discourse/ Here's a summary: - we did not host askbot, and we do not host discourse. This is because we do not have the manpower to maintain/update/tweak the infrastructure required to host these. So, we pay them to host the instances for us. This means that we *do not* have access to the servers---no control over the lower level server configurations. All we can change are settings from the GUI admin panel that discourse provides. This does not provide the ability to set up redirects. The plaintext on the 404 page can be changed, that is all. - Even if we did have access to the servers, there is no clean/easy way of migrating data from askbot to discourse. Resources would have to be spent on cleaning/anonymisation/user-mapping/badge-karma mapping/importing. We did not the required man-power to do this. So, what we have now is what could be achieved with the man power that we obtained from volunteers in the community, and with the technical limitations that we had to work with. We've spent a lot of time explaining this to our users, many of who had not read the CoC and used similar negative tones to demand that everything be moved over, or simply state how bad a job we had done. https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/where-have-the-old-posts-gone/655/45 https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/hello-everyone-what-do-you-think/138/5 With users, even though not enjoyable, it was understandable---they are not aware of how the community works and its limitations. Such tones on the -devel list within the community are less easy to digest. Maybe assume that we are slightly knowledgable and competent, did the planning and the thinking (and we certainly did the work), and this is simply the best that was possible within the given parameters? That is certainly more in line with "be excellent to each other" than what you are saying now. Even though I will not participate in this again, please feel free to continue the discussion---if folks want to improve AskFedora, please host a test discourse instance, see what can be tweaked from the admin panel, and suggest improvements. We have a specific category for that: https://ask.fedoraproject.org/c/site-feedback -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 22:58:00 +0100, Tim Jackson wrote: > I realise this is not exactly news, but when replacing Ask Fedora, was there > a reason to break all the links on the entire web to existing solutions, > rather than just putting the new system on a different domain? Or, failing > that, at least adding (conditional) redirects and/or links to the "old" > site? > > It seems like finally as Fedora was building up a body of useful "ask"-type > content and get traction on search engines (= searching for things not only > leading to results about Ubuntu), we wiped the slate clean. > > As it is now, whenever I (as a Fedora user) search for something, I still > frequently end up at a dead end on a 404 page on ask.fedoraproject.org. > There isn't even a *link* to the corresponding page on > askbot.fedoraproject.org - surely that, at least, is something we could do? > (yes, I realise one just has to add "bot" to the hostname, but that's not > the point - not everyone will either realise that, or bother, and it's > trivial to do when generating the error page) No actually, we cannot. Please read the link that Miro provided: https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/updating-the-404-template-to-mention-the-move-to-discourse/407/5 -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 09:12:21 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 01. 11. 19 22:58, Tim Jackson wrote: > > I realise this is not exactly news, but when replacing Ask Fedora, was > > there a reason to break all the links on the entire web to existing > > solutions, rather than just putting the new system on a different > > domain? Or, failing that, at least adding (conditional) redirects and/or > > links to the "old" site? > > > > It seems like finally as Fedora was building up a body of useful > > "ask"-type content and get traction on search engines (= searching for > > things not only leading to results about Ubuntu), we wiped the slate > > clean. > > > > As it is now, whenever I (as a Fedora user) search for something, I > > still frequently end up at a dead end on a 404 page on > > ask.fedoraproject.org. There isn't even a *link* to the corresponding > > page on askbot.fedoraproject.org - surely that, at least, is something > > we could do? (yes, I realise one just has to add "bot" to the hostname, > > but that's not the point - not everyone will either realise that, or > > bother, and it's trivial to do when generating the error page) > > This is very much needed but apparently, the effort got stalled: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/issue/953 > https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/updating-the-404-template-to-mention-the-move-to-discourse/407/6 It didn't stall, it was fixed long ago. The 404 page now says: "Welcome to the new AskFedora! Sorry, we couldn't find that page. If you are looking for the older platform, it is archived at askbot.fedoraproject.org. " -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On 2 November 2019 09:12:21 CET, "Miro Hrončok" wrote: >On 01. 11. 19 22:58, Tim Jackson wrote: >> I realise this is not exactly news, but when replacing Ask Fedora, >was there a >> reason to break all the links on the entire web to existing >solutions, rather >> than just putting the new system on a different domain? Or, failing >that, at >> least adding (conditional) redirects and/or links to the "old" site? >> >> It seems like finally as Fedora was building up a body of useful >"ask"-type >> content and get traction on search engines (= searching for things >not only >> leading to results about Ubuntu), we wiped the slate clean. >> >> As it is now, whenever I (as a Fedora user) search for something, I >still >> frequently end up at a dead end on a 404 page on >ask.fedoraproject.org. There >> isn't even a *link* to the corresponding page on >askbot.fedoraproject.org - >> surely that, at least, is something we could do? (yes, I realise one >just has to >> add "bot" to the hostname, but that's not the point - not everyone >will either >> realise that, or bother, and it's trivial to do when generating the >error page) > >This is very much needed but apparently, the effort got stalled: > >https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/issue/953 >https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/updating-the-404-template-to-mention-the-move-to-discourse/407/6 Not having this planned for and sorted before the change is sloppy. Sadly this kind of attitude towards breakage in a production environment seems makes fedora look bad and like we as a community can't even keep simple services working. It seems the whole move to discourse thing was done without proper planning. Do we not follow any type of change procedures? Br M ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: ask.fedoraproject.org - redirects?
On 01. 11. 19 22:58, Tim Jackson wrote: I realise this is not exactly news, but when replacing Ask Fedora, was there a reason to break all the links on the entire web to existing solutions, rather than just putting the new system on a different domain? Or, failing that, at least adding (conditional) redirects and/or links to the "old" site? It seems like finally as Fedora was building up a body of useful "ask"-type content and get traction on search engines (= searching for things not only leading to results about Ubuntu), we wiped the slate clean. As it is now, whenever I (as a Fedora user) search for something, I still frequently end up at a dead end on a 404 page on ask.fedoraproject.org. There isn't even a *link* to the corresponding page on askbot.fedoraproject.org - surely that, at least, is something we could do? (yes, I realise one just has to add "bot" to the hostname, but that's not the point - not everyone will either realise that, or bother, and it's trivial to do when generating the error page) This is very much needed but apparently, the effort got stalled: https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/issue/953 https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/updating-the-404-template-to-mention-the-move-to-discourse/407/6 -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
