Re: [Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 23 January 2015 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
On 01/23/2015 03:24 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: No specific agenda for today, but i'll be there in case there are any points we want/need to bring up prior to DevConf. So mainly: Agenda: - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil Meeting ended Fri Jan 23 15:39:44 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-23/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-23-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-23/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-23-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-23/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-23-15.01.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 23 January 2015 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
No specific agenda for today, but i'll be there in case there are any points we want/need to bring up prior to DevConf. So mainly: Agenda: - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 16 January 2015 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
On 01/16/2015 01:39 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Docker update - Status rpm mechanisms for multiple config subpackages & factory reset files - F22 items - DevConf - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil Logs: Meeting ended Fri Jan 16 15:59:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-16-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-16-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-01-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2015-01-16-15.00.log.html Please remember to CC: meetingminu...@lists.fedoraproject.org on your summary/minutes email. -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 16 January 2015 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Docker update - Status rpm mechanisms for multiple config subpackages & factory reset files - F22 items - DevConf - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 19 December 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Docker update / Rocket container check - Status rpm mechanisms for multiple config subpackages - Status rpm mechanisms for factory reset files - Base WG ownership of generic network install images (agreed already by most, just want confirmation from the last members for acceptance) - Happy holidays! - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] CANCELED: Base Design WG agenda meeting 12 December 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Due to several members who can't make it to todays meeting we're officially canceling the Base WG meeting today. Next Friday will be the last meeting for this year too. Thanks everyone! Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 05 December 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
On 12/05/2014 02:25 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Docker update / Rocket container check - Status rpm mechanisms for multiple config subpackages - Status rpm mechanisms for factory reset files - Base WG ownership of generic network install images (keep it on the agenda, until all WG members are back from PTO) - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil Logs: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-12-05-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-12-05-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-12-05-15.01.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 05 December 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Docker update / Rocket container check - Status rpm mechanisms for multiple config subpackages - Status rpm mechanisms for factory reset files - Base WG ownership of generic network install images (keep it on the agenda, until all WG members are back from PTO) - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] CANCELED: Base Design WG agenda meeting 28 November 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Due to Thanksgiving and the holidays we're moving all the open discussions to next weeks meeting and give everyone a nice break this Friday. Thanks everyone! Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 31 October 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Update on factory-reset work - Docker update - Phil on PTO for 3 weeks - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 24 October 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Revisit/update factory-reset/config subpackage - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 17 October 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 10 October 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Update buildrequires cleanup work (davids & nils!) - Update Alpha base image - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 03 October 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Unfortunately tomorrow is a public holiday in Germany, but if someone else from the WG would run the meeting i've put together a proposed agenda for tomorrow to give a few updates: Agenda: - Update buildrequires cleanup work (davids) - Update Alpha base image - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 26 September 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Introduction David Sommerseth, taking over buildrequires cleanup work from Benedikt - Discussion: Sharing alpha base image on Docker Hub - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Potential cancel of Base Design WG agenda meeting 19 September 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Hi everyone. As i'm not feeling well at all i won't be able to make it to our regular meeting today. So if any of you want to do run it feel free to do so, but i won't be able to attend. And sorry for the late notice. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 12 September 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Update on draft for /etc changes (Harald & Vaclav) - buildrequires cleanup quick updte - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-08-29) meeting minutes and logs
Last long status report of Benedikt about build requires cleanup, he has to go back to the university full time now. :( Discussion about fakesystemd and systemd-container, but really need Lennart for that. Will postpone more of that till later. Thanks & regards, Phil Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-29-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-29-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-29-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-09-05) meeting minutes and logs
Long discussion about the whole /etc stuff together with Florian Festi from the rpm team. Harald and Vaclav will put together a draft proposal over the next weeks to share with everyone. Thanks & regards, Phil Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-09-05-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-09-05-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-05/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-09-05-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Heads up for rawhide: rebase of texi2html fro 1.82 to 5.0
Hi everyone. Just a quick heads up that i've just quickly rebased texi2html to the current version. It's been a long standing request and i finally got around to do it quickly. As the jump is quite high i'm not sure if everything works out fine, so let me know if you're using texi2html and something breaks. Thanks! Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 05 September 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Lennart's proposal discussion, especially in relation to /etc: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 29 August 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status update builrequires/reproducible builds cleanup - Systemd in Docker discussion (fakesystemd/systemd-container) - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: systemd dependencies
our core OS stuff is full of it. I think you underestiate the complexity of this. There's actually been some analysis done of this and people are actively working to reduce them. Peter Exactly, as i've said, doing that manually is rather insane (see http://www.harald-hoyer.de/2014/01/14/self-hosting-fedora-base/ for some funny graphics regarding this), and the dependency creep that happened in Fedora over the past 10+ years is really the cause of it. So addressing this and focusing then on the 80% of the real issues instead of picking and tiny bits left and right will yield a much bigger bang for the buck, therefore as long as systemd itself doesn't start to do cyclic dependencies i'm personally fine with it being pulled in occasionally. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-08-22) meeting minutes and logs
Thanks to Lennart for joining our meeting today. We really only covered the subpackage config topic today and Lennart gave a very detailed and long explanation of the systemd and /etc handling with some ideas and outlooks for the future and we discussed some of the specifics where needed. Vaclav will be putting together a more detailed and summarized email early next week to Fedora development to kick off a public discussion around some of the ideas we discussed and talked about today. The other topics unfortunately had to be postponed to next week's meeting now as we kinda ran out of time. Thanks & regards, Phil Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-22-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-22-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-08-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-08-22-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 22 August 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status update builrequires/reproducible builds cleanup - Subpackage config file discussion - Systemd in Docker discussion - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG meeting CANCELED 15 August 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Hi everyone. As several people are still traveling tomorrow after post Flock things happening in Brno we're canceling the meeting for tomorrow. Next week we'd like to see if we can invite Lennart Poettering for a systemd discussion around Docker. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG meeting CANCELED 08 August 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Hi folks. As most of us are spending the time in talks or workshops at Flock this Friday i've preliminarily canceled the meeting for this week. Talk to you all next week again with news from Flock. :) Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 01 August 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Moar status update builrequires cleanup - Flock planing/meetup - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-07-18) meeting minutes and logs
Summary: - More status updates this week from moben, especially around some of the first fixes that he's currently working on with upstreams. Discussions with harald and others about various approaches. - pknirsch forgot that Vaclav was in London this week, so just briefly talked about him and shared some experiences we've had with him. Will do the proper discussion and voting next week. Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-18/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-18-15.02.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-18/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-18-15.02.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-18/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-18-15.02.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-07-11) meeting minutes and logs
Summary: - moben aka Benekdit Morbach presented some of his first results of builreq analysis and wrote a tool for that[1]. Will work with haraldh, vpavlin and others on related topics. - Talked with Michal Sekletar and accepted him as a WG member. His focus is docker and container technologies. - Vaclav Pavlin demonstrated the latest Fedora 20 based docker images, only 133MB in size[2] generated via a kickstart file[3] Lively discussion around docker, anaconda and rel-eng followed those docker focus topics. Mattdm then followed with 2 1/2 additional topics: 1a. Identifying different Fedora products -- fedora-release-* contents and /etc/os-release 1b. having tools like yum and dnf talk to mirror manager in a way which lets us count product installs 2. a "generic fedora" netinstall For 1a and 1b dgilmore, sgallagh and mattdm have already done a larger thread on fedora-devel ML to discuss the proper approach and solution. Several ideas already in place, just need to be implemented(tm). Some more discussions past that about 2. and related items (install trees vs. images etc). Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-11-15.13.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-11-15.13.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-07-11-15.13.log.html [1] https://github.com/moben/buildreq-check [2] http://vpavlin.fedorapeople.org/fedora-base-image/ [3] http://vpavlin.fedorapeople.org/fedora-base-image/container-fedora-small-20.ks -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 25 July 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status update builrequires cleanup - Really talk with Vaclav Pavlin as candidate for WG :) - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 18 July 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status update builrequires cleanup - Talk with Vaclav Pavlin as candidate for WG - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 11 July 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Introduction of Benedikt Morbach, intern working on buildreq reduction (and potential other stuff if time permits ;)) - Talk with Michal Sekletar as candidate for WG - Vaclav Pavlin presenting minimal Docker image for Fedora (133MB) - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] The Base Design WG is looking for a new committee member!
Ups, seems i'm living in the future already. :) Meeting is of course on Friday, not Thursday, so hope to see you there tomorrow! Thanks & regards, Phil On 07/09/2014 05:23 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: That sounds great Michal. If you could join us tomorrow at our meeting at 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting that would be excellent. Thank you for your interest and see you tomorrow! Regards, Phil On 07/08/2014 02:31 PM, Michal Sekletar wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 06:13:01PM +0200, Phil Knirsch wrote: Hi everyone. Hello everyone, As Bill Nottingham has decided to resign from the committee we now have a free seat that we'd like to fill with another person. In order to fill this seat i'm therefore reaching out here to Fedora development to offer allow any applicant from the community to get in touch with us and let us know you're interested, why you're interested, why you think you'd be a good fit and maybe even the things you'd like to drive or accomplish in the Base Design WG. I am interested in becoming a member of Base Design WG. I'd like help with accomplishing goals of Base WG and make sure that we provide minimal but solid foundation for others to build upon. I believe my previous experience makes me a good fit for this position : * Red Hat employee since 2011, now member of "Plumbers" group * maintainer and contributor to various networking related projects * systemd maintainer in RHEL I'd like to help with integration of upstream changes in key components to the distribution and making sure they are not disruptive. Another area where I'd like to contribute are container use cases of Fedora Base. Ensuring we provide minimal, but easily extensible platform for sand-boxed/containerized apps. For more background on what the Base WG does, here our Fedora wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Base In order to contact us you can either reply directly to me or join us during our regular meetings each Friday at 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting. I strongly suspect next weeks meeting will be canceled due to the US holiday, but after that we'll be doing weekly meetings again. Looking forward to see you there! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Michal -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] The Base Design WG is looking for a new committee member!
That sounds great Michal. If you could join us tomorrow at our meeting at 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting that would be excellent. Thank you for your interest and see you tomorrow! Regards, Phil On 07/08/2014 02:31 PM, Michal Sekletar wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 06:13:01PM +0200, Phil Knirsch wrote: Hi everyone. Hello everyone, As Bill Nottingham has decided to resign from the committee we now have a free seat that we'd like to fill with another person. In order to fill this seat i'm therefore reaching out here to Fedora development to offer allow any applicant from the community to get in touch with us and let us know you're interested, why you're interested, why you think you'd be a good fit and maybe even the things you'd like to drive or accomplish in the Base Design WG. I am interested in becoming a member of Base Design WG. I'd like help with accomplishing goals of Base WG and make sure that we provide minimal but solid foundation for others to build upon. I believe my previous experience makes me a good fit for this position : * Red Hat employee since 2011, now member of "Plumbers" group * maintainer and contributor to various networking related projects * systemd maintainer in RHEL I'd like to help with integration of upstream changes in key components to the distribution and making sure they are not disruptive. Another area where I'd like to contribute are container use cases of Fedora Base. Ensuring we provide minimal, but easily extensible platform for sand-boxed/containerized apps. For more background on what the Base WG does, here our Fedora wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Base In order to contact us you can either reply directly to me or join us during our regular meetings each Friday at 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting. I strongly suspect next weeks meeting will be canceled due to the US holiday, but after that we'll be doing weekly meetings again. Looking forward to see you there! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Michal -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] CANCELED: Base Design WG agenda meeting 04 July 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Due to the holiday in the US and no real agenda for today i'm canceling the meeting for today. Continued next week. Thanks everyone! Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] The Base Design WG is looking for a new committee member!
Hi everyone. As Bill Nottingham has decided to resign from the committee we now have a free seat that we'd like to fill with another person. In order to fill this seat i'm therefore reaching out here to Fedora development to offer allow any applicant from the community to get in touch with us and let us know you're interested, why you're interested, why you think you'd be a good fit and maybe even the things you'd like to drive or accomplish in the Base Design WG. For more background on what the Base WG does, here our Fedora wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Base In order to contact us you can either reply directly to me or join us during our regular meetings each Friday at 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting. I strongly suspect next weeks meeting will be canceled due to the US holiday, but after that we'll be doing weekly meetings again. Looking forward to see you there! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 27 June 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Collect and discuss candidates for open positions in WG - Updated on help for Base WG (pknirsch) - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 13 June 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Bill announced his departure from the WG, discussion about how we proceed. - Open floor - FYI: pknirsch on PTO next Friday Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-06-06) meeting minutes and logs
Quick recap of last weeks meeting: - Dropping the merge reviews from the agenda, will give an update once thats done - Quick update that there's progress on the help side for our efforts Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-06-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-06-06-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-06-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-06-06-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-06-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-06-06-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 6 June 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Follow up / status update merge reviews - Update on janitorial tasks help - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 23. May 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
On 05/23/2014 03:41 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: Hi everyone. I didn't have time to put an agenda together for today and as jreznik is out today we probably won't get an update for the merge reviews. Not much news yet on the helping hands, just that it's progressing nicely and i hope to have good news soonish. I'll be on IRC on the #fedora-meeting channel today in case we need to cover something. Otherwise no reason to do a meeting just to meet, we all got plenty of other stuff to work on. ;P Thanks & regards, Phil Ups, corrected the date. So much for my copy & paste skills. ;) Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 16. May 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Hi everyone. I didn't have time to put an agenda together for today and as jreznik is out today we probably won't get an update for the merge reviews. Not much news yet on the helping hands, just that it's progressing nicely and i hope to have good news soonish. I'll be on IRC on the #fedora-meeting channel today in case we need to cover something. Otherwise no reason to do a meeting just to meet, we all got plenty of other stuff to work on. ;P Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-05-16) meeting minutes and logs
Quick summary: - On topic of merge reviews, no big news so far, still in progress. jreznik mentioned to potentially use this as a template for Ruby software collections in the future - pknirsch mentioned in the open floor section that we might get some more helping hands to help on rel-eng and cleanup tasks. More info in the future. - haraldh shared some really nifty small install success from Kay: https://plus.google.com/108087225644395745666/posts/DDfpW6aFzkU Thanks & regards, Phil Meeting ended Fri May 16 15:38:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-05-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-05-16-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-05-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-05-16-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-05-16/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-05-16-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 16. May 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
As we dropped last weeks meeting early due to low attendance we're going to cover the same topics this week again: Agenda: - Follow up / status update merge reviews - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 25. Apr 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Apologies for the late agenda, was out of office the last few days and didn't get to it before today. Agenda: - Follow up / status update merge reviews - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-04-25) meeting minutes and logs
Quick summary: - jwb already followed up on the agenda that the securetty has already been resolved - jreznik working with dglimore on the merge reviews - As pknirsch is on PTO next Friday, jreznik will run it - Good Open Floor discussion about fedup and install trees and images. Will follow up about this once we have first composes Meeting ended Fri Apr 25 16:03:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-25/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-25-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-25/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-25-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-25/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-25-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 25. Apr 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Status update on merge reviews, tech spec, securetty proposal - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting CANCELED for 18. Apr 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Hi everyone. Just a quick heads up that there won't be a meeting on Friday this week as it's a holiday for many countries (Good Friday). Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-04-11) meeting minutes and logs
Main discussion points were a quick recap and discussion about last weeks topics: - Pro active deprecation of unused/old packages Discussed this a bit and agreed to work on a more formal/official announcement for each release using a typical 2 stage process with deprecation for next release and removal/obsolete in the one following that and a reminder of packages being obsoleted in the next release. - Merge reviews jreznik & dgilmore will work on those (reminder & potentially other actions). The second topic was system wide change discussion in Fedora. Notting brought up the empty securetty one and we agreed that the counter proposal from mattdm was better. Jreznik will communicate that and follow up on the announcement. Meeting ended Fri Apr 11 16:21:02 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-11-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-11-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-04-11/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-04-11-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 11. Apr 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Recap + summary from topics of last week - F21 changes: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/21/ChangeSet - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 4. Apr 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Discuss https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-March/197074.html as task for Base - Discuss http://tinyurl.com/fedora-pkg-reviews as task for Base - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-03-14) meeting minutes and logs
Hi all. Agenda for today was discussing the tech spec that masta wanted to write. Unfortunately due to his other workload he wasn't able to complete it by today, so we postponed the discussion to next week. In the openfloor session we brought up a topic from jreznik about any requirements Base might have for docs, but we didn't find anything new, just the "old" installer and other core items. Once the tech spec is done we'll double check if anything new came up and if so contact docs of course. Next weeks meeting will be held by masta as i'm on PTO the whole next week. Thats all! Thanks & regards, Phil Meeting ended Fri Mar 21 15:34:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-21-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-21-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-21-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 21. Mar 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Discuss draft for Tech Spec for Base Design - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-03-14) meeting minutes and logs
Main topics for today was meeting time & tech specs. On the topic of meeting time we agreed to keep the meeting at 15:00 UTC for now. For tech specs we did a quick 2nd review of the changes lately to Workstation and Server, but none of the changes there are critical for Base. Agreed to start putting together a draft for a Tech Spec for Base as well, masta going to take care of it. Draft will be reviewed next Friday. Last but not least on Open Floor dgilmore brought up the topic of requirements that Base might have for all products, e.g. install trees and/or DVD install media. He'll follow up with the Workstation WG about this as their plans currently don't include a DVD media or install trees, just a Live media that can be burned on a DVD. Meeting ended Fri Mar 14 16:12:12 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-14-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-14-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-03-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-03-14-15.01.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 14. Mar 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Call for agenda: If you have anything else for the agenda just let me know. Agenda: - Proposal to move meeting to summer time (14:00 UTC) - 2nd round of reviews of Tech Specs - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 07. Mar 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting: Proposal for cancel due to empty agenda
On 03/07/2014 02:29 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Phil Knirsch wrote: No agenda for today, so i'd propose to cancel the meeting today and prepare another more detailed review of the Tech Specs and a checkup of the takslist of dglimore next week. Agreed. As an aside, I've missed this meeting the past couple of weeks because I'm inept at calendar entries. Just to make sure, we're sticking with the current UTC time it is at now for future meetings right? The US switches to DST this weekend and the EU does at the end of the month. Could get confusing. josh Right, i remember the month of clock switch hell. And yes, i'd propose to stick with UTC for now. Even if it doesn't work for a few folks things should settle down in 3-4 weeks. Thanks & regards and have a great weekend! Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 07. Mar 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting: Proposal for cancel due to empty agenda
No agenda for today, so i'd propose to cancel the meeting today and prepare another more detailed review of the Tech Specs and a checkup of the takslist of dglimore next week. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-02-28) meeting minutes and logs
Great discussion today about the current Tech spec for Server. Sgallagh was present as well and provided great feedback on some of the point and questions we had. We'll be revisiting the Tech Specs of Server and Workstation next week and if it's available the Cloud one as well. Thanks & regards, Phil Meeting ended Fri Feb 28 16:06:18 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-28/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-28-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-28/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-28-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-28/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-28-15.00.log.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 28. Feb 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Discussion of Server Tech Spec[1] - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-02-21) meeting minutes and logs
Main meeting agenda for today was a discussion about the Workstation Tech Spec and any implications, changes or actions it would require from Base. Matthias Clasen from the Workstaing WG joined us today and every a long discussion and review specifically around the Core Services and Features part we've came to the conclusion that at this point with only the Workstation WG tech spec there were no actions or changes required by Base yet. Once the other WGs provide theirs we will revisit that and see where overlaps, conflicts or items might come up that need to be resolved at the Base level. Installer is still a hot topic, but thats nothing we could resolve during our meeting and which might have to be brought up with FESCO again. Meeting ended Fri Feb 21 15:58:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-21-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-21-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-21/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-21-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 21. Feb 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Discussion of Workstation Tech Spec[1][2] and define action items for Base from it - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil [1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-February/009136.html [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Technical_Specification -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] WGs Technical Specifications and Base WG
On 02/20/2014 11:43 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Hi! Matthias presented on Desktop list [1] initial Technical Specification document for Workstation product [2]. I expect other WGs will come with similar document soon to fulfil FESCo request. But the discussion on desktop list steered towards what should be in Base and what in products and if bottom up or top down approach should be used to define Base (and truth is probably as always somewhere in the middle). It's great to see technical requirements from WS WG that could help our group see if it fits to our vision, if we want to extend it based on this document etc. And there are sections we already decided this functionality belong to Base aka installer (even WS has a bit different requirements compared to current installer so flexibility in design should be let in this WG). Let's discuss it on Friday's Base WG meeting, Phil, could you add to the agenda? Btw. as Base use devel list - I'd like to ask other WGs to ping us once they have tech spec document available for review. Jaroslav [1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-February/009136.html [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Technical_Specification Hi Jaroslav. Thanks for the heads up, i'll add it for tomorrows agenda. Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: additional repository with {experimental,incubating} content
On 02/12/2014 04:58 PM, Marcela Mašláňová wrote: Yesterday we spoke at Env and Stacks WG about Fedora additional repository. I was wondering what might other products need to put there. Will be the content experimental? Would it be the content just developing (not good for main Fedora repository) or simply not good to became Fedora package, because it contains bundles? I would love to hear your use-cases, so Env WG could create policy and workflow for such repo. Currently, it looks like it could contain also packages, which will be good for main repo in the future. The repository should have only minimal rules, not standard review, no conflicts among packages, ... You can follow whole discussion here [1], but no conclusion yet, just ideas. Another question is if for example Ruby collection needed by OpenShift (Cloud WG) will be needed in main repo or it could be installed from additional repository. [1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-February/000173.html Thanks for your input, Marcela Sorry for the late reply, darn DevConf plague struck me last week quite badly. I would have one concrete example that probably would apply for a host of other packages: Right now Daniel Vratil is using COPRS to package and provide the latest early version of KDE5 resp. KF5 as it's called now. As those packages are actually destined to be be part of Fedora proper over the next months i think an incubator repository would be an excellent idea for early development next release version of software. Lower hurdle to get packages in, don't need to yet follow the FPC fully but which at some point are expected to move to Fedora and where a better visibility then COPRS repositories provides would be great. And this could work i think for many other projects too, where early access test packages could be provided for the Brave and the Free. :) Not sure if that would apply to your idea of the experimental/incubator repository, but i'd love to see something like that to be honest. Basically a middle ground between Fedora proper and COPRS. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-02-14) meeting minutes and logs
Covered a quick update on the cleanup work with some nice progress (first changes landing!). Moved over to a quick recap of DevConf. Excellent conf there with a panel of the Fedora WG representatives for Q&A. Last but not least requirements checkup, at the moment mainly focused on rel-eng, so dgilmore volunteered to do a writeup of what he knows already will be needed. Meeting ended Fri Feb 14 16:10:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-14-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-14-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-14/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-02-14-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 14. Feb 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Cleanup status/report - DevConf meet up summary - Requirements/changes Base needs in Fedora (https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1178) As time permits: - FPC recommendation for future - Open Floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Meeting canceled for today
Apologies for the late notice everyone, but as i've been head of heels in tons of other work the past week and quite a few folks are either traveling or attending FOSDEM this weekend we're canceling the meeting today. Next week we'll have to see with a lot of people being at DevConf in Brno/CZ whether we can do a meeting or not, but i'll send out an notice on Thursday at the latest. Sorry again for the late note today. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 24. Jan 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Discussion of WG PRDs and impact on Base https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Product_Requirements_Document https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Product_Requirements_Document - Status update BR cleanup - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-01-17) meeting minutes and logs
Meeting minutes. Main points are now to take action on the data Harald Hoyer produced and contact the 65 package maintainers of potential immediate cleanup candidates or if not generally fixable for a %bootstrap flagging. Inter WG coordination we think would be best tackled by a cross team coordinator for which jreznik sort-of volunteered in ticket 1220. Everyone is still expected to read through the other WGs PRDs to understand the plans they have. Last but not least dgilmore proposed a kickstart for Base as well (like all other WGs did) to allow installation testing of Base only. Meeting ended Fri Jan 17 16:15:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-17/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-17-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-17/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-17-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-17/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-17-15.00.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 17. Jan 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Self hosting detailed review & discussion & next steps: http://www.harald-hoyer.de/2014/01/14/self-hosting-fedora-base/ - Inter WG coordination -> FOSDEM, DevConf? - Open floor -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2014-01-10) meeting minutes and logs
Mainly focused on next steps for the BR cleanup followed by a discussion about containers and moving over towards definition of Base again. Meeting ended Fri Jan 10 16:53:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-10/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-10-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-10/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-10-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-10/fedora_base_design_working_group.2014-01-10-15.01.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 10. Jan 2014 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Apologies for the late announcement for the meeting today, i've been away the past 2 weeks and work has accumulated quite a bit and i just didn't get to send it out before. Not much of an agenda for today anyway. Agenda: - Buildreq cleanup updates and further discussion/actions - Inter WG topic: Stable application runtimes - Open floor See you later! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-12-20) meeting minutes and logs
Main topic was the discussion of how to proceeded with the BR cleanup idea. One key point that was brought up that this whole effort obviously relies on working closely with the maintainers of affected packages. So the first big step is contacting all of them in order to ask them whether they think this is a good idea and would like to work with us on doing this. One of the next steps is then to start providing more information about BRs that could potentially be dropped. Plan is to automate this with some scripts and have the scripts and reports so that maintainers could either run the checks themselves or look at the reports we provide. Meeting ended Fri Dec 20 16:33:12 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-20/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-20-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-20/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-20-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-20/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-20-15.01.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/13/2013 03:34 PM, Ville Skyttä wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote: Famous last words: Can't be that hard to write a script that compares 2 builds that they provide the have the same provides and requires and filelists. :) Try /usr/bin/rpmdiff first... Great idea! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 20. Dec 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Sorry for the late send out of the agenda, this week has been "overwhelming" somehow... Agenda: - Continue discussion about BR cleanup o Discuss ideas and concerns brought up on the f-d ML o Proposal how to automate this - Happy holiday wishes! :) Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/14/2013 03:27 PM, Ben Boeckel wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec, 2013 at 13:41:55 GMT, Phil Knirsch wrote: Yea, I suspect both could be combined though in a script that gradually adds new BRs to a package and then iterates over adding and removing BRs until it produces equivalent output (not identical as thats kinda hard to verify and achieve, but same provides/requires of resulting packages and same filelist at least). What about BRs which are needed, but the script removes because of transitive dependencies? IMO, BuildRequires: foo-devel getting you bar-devel, which is also needed, without listing bar-devel means you now depend on foo-devel not losing that dependency. --Ben Right, but shouldn't that then lead to the package building fine but the binary packages would miss some requires? Or am i missing something here? Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/14/2013 02:25 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2013-12-13 at 14:45 +0100, Phil Knirsch wrote: Famous last words: Can't be that hard to write a script that compares 2 builds that they provide the have the same provides and requires and filelists. :) That's still not really enough; that metadata doesn't express anything *close* to all the possible capabilities of a package. Not saying this isn't a good idea, just that it should involve careful manual double checking of compose logs and the like. We already have AutoQA running rpmdiff and rpmguard tests on new builds, btw. I doubt it would be difficult to hook this effort up to that AutoQA stuff somehow so you can get nice rpmdiff/rpmguard results between your test builds. tflink/kparal (CCed) may have some thoughts. I'll definitely give those a try, thanks for the suggestions and ideas. And yes, i agree that simply because the builds "appear" to be the same doesn't mean they actually are. But having a list of BRs that could potentially be removed is obviously the first important step which has to be followed by a proper verification that the actual new build without the BRs really does work the same way as the old one and doesn't have any features removed invisibly or some documentation instead of being regenerated just copied or anything like that. Regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/15/2013 11:54 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:20:50PM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote: Dne 12.12.2013 18:50, Phil Knirsch napsal(a): Initiate build requires cleanup for base related packages in Fedora working with maintainers and the community. The goal is to reduce the number of self-hosting packages required for Base from currently over 2000 packages. Just a few (probably silly ;) ideas which comes to my mind reading about this initiative: * It might be interesting to have some script, which tries to audit BR, e.g. it removes all BR first and then adds them back as they are required. This could reveal some BR which are actually not needed anymore, but are listed among BR from historic reasons. auto-buildrequires: http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/auto-buildrequires/ Rich. Ah, i remember you talked about that before Richard. Thanks for the link, i'll definitely be looking into that. If i have any patches that i'd like to get reviewed shall i send them to you directly or is there a ML somewhere where to send them? Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-12-13) meeting minutes and logs
Today we continued the discussion about the BR cleanup work and moved over to how we could do the same for docs as well (which seemed to contribute a lot to the BR chain). Meeting ended Fri Dec 13 16:07:27 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-13/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-13-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-13/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-13-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-13/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-13-15.01.log.html Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/13/2013 02:31 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:20:50 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote: * It might be interesting to have some script, which tries to audit BR, e.g. it removes all BR first and then adds them back as they are required. This could reveal some BR which are actually not needed anymore, but are listed among BR from historic reasons. The check for this needs to be careful. When some requirements are missing a build can still succeed, but be missing intended features. So you can't just test whether a build succeeds or fails to determine if a build requirement is really needed. Yep. I remember back when we did the s390x stuff for F12 that was one of the things we looked at specifically: Hacking things together to get at least building was a good start, but if you didn't install several other packages the build would still succeed but with autoconf automatically disabling several features. Thats why i really like the way we've moved over the past 10 years or so to explicitly only have a pretty small buildsys environment and almost everything else needs to be explicitly required for building from the respective packages. Famous last words: Can't be that hard to write a script that compares 2 builds that they provide the have the same provides and requires and filelists. :) Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/13/2013 12:20 PM, Vít Ondruch wrote: Dne 12.12.2013 18:50, Phil Knirsch napsal(a): Initiate build requires cleanup for base related packages in Fedora working with maintainers and the community. The goal is to reduce the number of self-hosting packages required for Base from currently over 2000 packages. Just a few (probably silly ;) ideas which comes to my mind reading about this initiative: * It might be interesting to have some script, which tries to audit BR, e.g. it removes all BR first and then adds them back as they are required. This could reveal some BR which are actually not needed anymore, but are listed among BR from historic reasons. Good point. For some of the BRs i've already noticed i was wondering whether they are really necessary anymore. But ye, that would have to be at least somewhat automated as doing that manually for single packages would be a gigantic task time wise. /me makes a note. * Second level could be to try to limit the BR, although some extended functionality or binding might not be supported. This extended functionality or bindings could be moved out into separate package, although it would require second build run. Looking into Python BR, I believe they could be trimmed down using this approach. Yea, I suspect both could be combined though in a script that gradually adds new BRs to a package and then iterates over adding and removing BRs until it produces equivalent output (not identical as thats kinda hard to verify and achieve, but same provides/requires of resulting packages and same filelist at least). Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
On 12/12/2013 09:00 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 06:50:31PM +0100, Phil Knirsch wrote: Now, to figure our how the build chains for these packages look like i've cobbled together a (really bad) hack using python and repoclosure that basically takes a set of packages as an input (actually a set of requirements) and then spits out consecutively the groups of packages needed to build the previous ones, so basically a reverse grouped build order: Nifty. I have the intuition that there might be particular nodes where something pulls in an innocuous-looking dependency that leads to an explosion of build requirements. If so, I bet there's a graphical visualization of this that will make them jump out Right, that's actually on my plan as a next step. Ages ago (like, 5 years or so) we've done it once with the java cloud back then when Karsten Hopp was trying to unravel and bootstrap s390x for Fedora 12 once more. That graph alone huge and printed on A1 hung on his wall to mark off stuff that he managed to get built or fixed. :) We still do have code for that, but it's pretty rotten by now[1] and probably needs quite a bit TLC. I got 2 weeks of PTO over the holidays, so hopefully enough time to get more stuff done there. Thanks & regards, Phil [1] https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/pyrpm.git/tree/scripts/pyrpmgraph -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 13. Dec 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - Buildreq cleanup initiative - Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base - Open Floor Please send any other topics as usual to the list and/or bring them up at the start of the meeting. See you all tomorrow! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Proposal for buildrequires cleanup janitorial initiative
Hi everyone.
During last weeks Base WG discussion about package set and self hosting
of Base we came to a point where especially the self hosting of Base
would currently look absurd as we'd require more than 2000 components to
do so.
For that reason we'd like to propose the following initiative:
Initiate build requires cleanup for base related packages in Fedora
working with maintainers and the community. The goal is to reduce the
number of self-hosting packages required for Base from currently over
2000 packages.
To kickstart this off one idea would be to start looking at very small
self contained package sets that already exist:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Base/Packages
This is a page thatHarald Hoyer put together and consists of a very
limited set of packages that are together dependency complete.
Now, to figure our how the build chains for these packages look like
i've cobbled together a (really bad) hack using python and repoclosure
that basically takes a set of packages as an input (actually a set of
requirements) and then spits out consecutively the groups of packages
needed to build the previous ones, so basically a reverse grouped build
order:
-- snipp here --
import sys
import subprocess
def getBuildRequires(pkgset):
requires = set()
cmd = ["repoquery", "--enablerepo=fedora-source", "--requires",
"--srpm", "--source"]
cmd.extend(pkgset)
out = subprocess.check_output(cmd)
for r in out.split("\n"):
requires.add(r)
return requires
def getSRPMs(requires):
newpkgset = set()
cmd = ["repoquery", "--whatprovides", "--source"]
cmd.extend(requires)
out = subprocess.check_output(cmd)
for prov in out.split("\n"):
if prov[-8:] != ".src.rpm":
continue
newpkgset.add(prov[:-8])
return newpkgset
oldpkgset = set()
newpkgset = set(getSRPMs(sys.argv[1:]))
while len(newpkgset - oldpkgset) > 0:
diff = newpkgset - oldpkgset
print len(diff), diff
oldpkgset = set(newpkgset)
newpkgset = newpkgset | getSRPMs(getBuildRequires(diff))
print len(newpkgset), newpkgset
-- snipp here --
The output is awful, but can be easily adapted to what one needs. It
needs to be run on a current Fedora system (F20 or rawhide) like so:
python bo2.py *[]
and it'll spit the different sets of package srpm NEVRAs that need to be
built with the last output being the whole set of packages and the
second to last one being the first component group that needs to be
built. So if you only want the groups, just put a comment before the
last line.
I know this could probably be written much nicer using the yum API, but
it does the job for me for now and it's relatively fast (couple of
minutes for a set of packages).
I'll add some better formated lists to Harald's wiki page so the
buildreqs and groups can be studied and tackled by anyone who feels like
wanting to help here. :)
And obviously if you as a package maintainer feel like you'd like to
cleaning up your package, hopefully this tool will help you determine
why the heck your package might have some really oddball buildrequire
chain, too. :)
Thanks & regards, Phil
--
Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470
Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111
Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch
Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/
D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany
--
devel mailing list
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[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-12-06) meeting minutes and logs
Main topic we covered today was the janitorial work for Base related packages to do a build requires cleanup in the coming months. I'll be sending out a separate email about that on Monday to explain the ins and outs and hopefully with a bit more info/queries/statistics about the whole idea. And as usual, if anyone wants to help/participate/comment etc feel free to get in contact with us. Meeting ended Fri Dec 6 15:56:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-06-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-06-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-06/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-12-06-15.01.log.html Please remember to CC: meetingminu...@lists.fedoraproject.org on your summary/minutes email. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 6. Dec 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda: - More on package dep/builddep analysis + potential action items/tasks (see discussion last week) - Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base - Open Floor Please send any other topics as usual to the list and/or bring them up at the start of the meeting. See you all tomorrow! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-11-29) meeting minutes and logs
Meeting ended Fri Nov 29 16:15:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-29-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-29-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-29/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-29-15.00.log.html Please remember to CC: meetingminu...@lists.fedoraproject.org on your summary/minutes email. -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 29. Nov 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Very short agenda this week as most if not all US folks will be away due to Thanksgiving. Mainly informative/info collection agenda: Agenda: - More in depth review of package set for Base - Open Floor Info: - Release cycle discussion on fedora-devel now Thanks & regards, Phil PS: And sorry for the late send out, there was a very sad event in our family that kept me away from work the past few days. -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Release cycle discussion for Fedora products and specifically Fedora Base and how they interact/align
Hi everyone. As i've been having a few discussions myself and following several of them as well as plans about release cycles in the different WGs over the past weeks and after FESCO discussed this in during their meetings and in a FESCO ticket[1] i get the feeling that we should be discussing this not in committees only but on a broader scale across all committees and WGs. The FESCO ticket comes to the following result: 'If working groups want to use different cycles, they should provide us with what they want to do with rationale along with the PRD. They should be aware that even if we can okay the plan, it is unlikely to be implementable for one or more releases. Please do not make your PRD depend on an alternate release lifecycle.' Josh Boyer also started a very great discussion about this specifically for the kernel on the Fedora kernel mailing list and how he would like to go forward with the kernel itself[2]. A very informative and deep analysis of the options and the impacts of different alternatives as well. Stephen Gallagher did the same for the Server WG[3] with lots of good input and feedback about the it in that thread as well. What i'd like to do here now is to collect all information of every WG about how they envision their releases to work (generally), what release cadence they expect and what life time they expect for each of their products and last but certainly not least, how they plan to support that. And following the guidance of the FESCO ticket[1] how we can in the end align all products to follow a general cadence and life cycle while allowing products the flexibility they want and/or need. Thanks everyone! Regards, Phil [1] https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1202 [2] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/kernel/2013-November/004678.html [3] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/server/2013-November/000369.html -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-11-22) meeting minutes and logs
Meeting ended Fri Nov 22 16:07:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-22-15.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-22-15.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-22/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-22-15.00.log.html Please remember to CC: meetingminu...@lists.fedoraproject.org on your summary/minutes email. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 22. Nov 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda for tomorow: - FESCO release cycle decision (common release cylce for all products, need justification and resources to deviate): https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1202#comment:12 - Continue discussion about definition of Base Design: - Do we need a PRD? - Installer part of Base? Or different product/project? (see wwoods comments last week especially) - Start working on collecting deliverables for first "release" - Open Floor If you have anything else please simply reply to this email so we can pick the topic up for tomorrows agenda. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Fedora Base Design Working Group (2013-11-15) meeting minutes and logs
Meeting ended Fri Nov 15 16:32:29 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-15/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-15-15.01.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-15/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-15-15.01.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-15/fedora_base_design_working_group.2013-11-15-15.01.log.html Please remember to CC: meetingminu...@lists.fedoraproject.org on your summary/minutes email. -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 15. Nov 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting
Agenda for tomorrows meeting: - QE representation - Liaison for FESCO? Volunteers? - Mission statement - PRD (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/FOSSP as an example) - Release Schedule and alignment with other WGs (https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1202) - Open floor Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Base] Summary/Minutes from today's Base WG meeting (2013-11-08)
On 11/09/2013 08:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Fri, Nov 08, 2013 at 03:21:04PM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: Hey, I read your minutes, and discussed some of my thoughts on this with my workstation wg peers. Basically, I think that defining a 'base' as a particular set of packages (minimal install, or some variant thereof) does not really provide us what we need to build one or more products.' What we really need as a base is a definition of the apis that are guaranteed to be stable and that the products and applications can rely on. Packages can to some extent serve as a proxy for that, but they are really just an implementation detail of how the product is put together. +1 to this. In fact, I think we'll *need* to do it this way in order to be able to innovate at both layers. I absolutely like the idea and i think we brought that up during our meeting on Friday actually and were all more or less in favor of it. In order to get there though the Base team will need very detailed input from the other WGs so that we can then find the smallest common denominator of a common stable API and/or ABI that Base will then provide for any given release for all products. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Fedora Base Design WG] Reminder: Meeting on #fedora-meeting at 15:00 UTC today
Hi everyone. Just as a reminder, meeting time in roughly 1 1/2 hours from now. See you there! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Fedora Base Design WG] Committee FESCO approved, next steps
On 11/06/2013 04:46 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/06/2013 09:57 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 15:38:10 +0100, Phil Knirsch wrote: But i do like the idea of well "Overlap" releases? Where most of the release would stay stable in a sense of API/ABI and we could still bring out a newer release. Since we have a system where multiple kernel types can be installed, maybe we could use that to have a latest stable kernel package and a latest long term support kernel package. This will take more kernel team resources and may have some issues if the graphics drivers devs want to take advantage of a new feature that isn't going to be back ported to stable. Alternately, maybe this is one of the cases where we leave it to RHEL/CentOS to cover. For really long-term kernel support, those groups are much better equipped to resource it than the Fedora kernel team. Hm, so would the Fedora Server products base their releases then on CentOS instead? Otherwise, if due to resource constraints the Base products can't have a longer life cycle then say, 1 year or so, how would the Server products from Fedora be able to provide longer lifecycles on top of that? Would they support the Base they are using themselves? Who would do that? As at the end of the day, as Bruno already mentioned in his answer, # of releases per year and lifetime of one product don't scale well. They actually scale quadratic, which is even worse. So we'll have to find some common ground and ideas on how we can manage to support both fast moving products e.g. like Cloud or potentially Workstation vs. slower moving and longer living ones like i expect Server. And don't take this as an attack please, i just want to ensure everyone is on the same page regarding our finite resources and how we can most efficiently use them and find a solution that will work for all involved WGs and products. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
[Fedora Base Design WG] Confirmed meeting: Friday, November 8 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting IRC
Subject says it all, thanks to Jon for making it possible to come on Friday at that time as well we now have our first official meeting time and day. The initial meeting agenda items went out with my previous email, but to be sure here are recap: - The main topics for the meeting agenda from my side will be: o Governance discussion & draft (Proposal: Review other WGs governance drafts & create our own based on those) o Regular meeting times (stay with Friday 15:00 PM or move somewhere else?) o Base mailing list discussion (yes/no, pros/cons) o QE representation discussion (who, how, status, etc) o Role of Base Design group discussion -> o Start of collecting ideas for Base Design. Proposal: Use wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Base Maybe something like a mission statement first that relates to the idea that the Base Design is the platform for all other direct Fedora products (there can potentially be other separate products based on our original products or others consuming Base in the future). o Container technology See you there! Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Fedora Base Design WG] Committee FESCO approved, next steps
On 11/06/2013 02:46 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Phil Knirsch wrote: On 11/06/2013 05:43 AM, Jon wrote: Another item I'd like to consider for the initial discussion is the release cycle for the base design. My feeling is that base is small enough and simple enough to allow a more frequent release, perhaps even continuously. My guess is the other WGs will have their own ideas for how frequently they output. So base WG would need to be the lowest common denominator in that way. Obviouly rel-eng and qa need to represent for this topic. :-) Right, release cycle will definitely be a hot topic, and i'd like us to investigate different types as well, e.g. not a time based but a major feature based cycle (e.g. new upstream kernel -> new release), continuous, support time for releases, what about feature backports and so forth. Lots revolving around those topics i think. Unless you want to do a release every 3 months, the kernel probably isn't going to be a good thing to key off of. I mean, it's a thing we could do, but if we did that we'd probably want to treat it in a fashion where a new Base release can fit into an older product release for some reasonable definition of old. Similar to how we rebase the kernel in existing releases today, with perhaps a bit more lead time and QA. Makes perfect sense, yes. And thanks for giving this great example, and why it's so vital to have different people with different backgrounds and focuses on each team. But i do like the idea of well "Overlap" releases? Where most of the release would stay stable in a sense of API/ABI and we could still bring out a newer release. As Jaroslav already mentioned, i can see some products that would want to have really current Base products while others might want to have longer lifecycles and longer release times for Base. This will be a tough nut to crack considering the limited resources we have (people and time wise): Just as an example with picking up your 3 month release cycle, imagine other teams would want to have 3 year life cycle for Base, that would mean in the end we'd have to support and maintain 3 years x 4 releases per year = 12 release at once. I'm pretty sure thats not feasible, so we'll have to discuss in the WG and with all other WGs a compromise of how we can make it work for most of them. Again just throwing out an idea here: Doing 1 Long life release per year where long term products could base their products on and 3 short life release per year that we'd only support for 1 year. That would reduce the number down to 6 already, or even sorter if we'd say we only support the short life cycle release to 6 months only. And again, this is just food for thought/my $0.02 here that comes to my mind. Probably lost of garbage in it. :) One request i also already got was if we in the Base WG could take a look at containers/sandboxes for applications as well. Basically so that the technology could be used by any derived product built on top of Base. And as there are currently multiple competing technologies being worked on (docker.io, systemd containers, libvirt-lxc, openshift cartridges) we'd need to evaluate those and decide which one(s) we'd want to offer as a "standard" from the Base product. Yes, the Workstation WG is interested in this as well. Aye, i've read the PRD and followed to some extent the enormous discussions around the Workstation already. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Fedora Base Design WG] Committee FESCO approved, next steps
On 11/06/2013 05:43 AM, Jon wrote: On Nov 4, 2013 12:01 PM, "Stephen Gallagher" mailto:sgall...@redhat.com>> wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 11/04/2013 11:07 AM, Phil Knirsch wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > > A quick update from my side regarding the Base Design WG: > > > > - My proposed committee was approved by FESCO last Wednesday. One > > negative vote came from Stephen Gallagher that he would have very > > much preferred to have Lennart instead of Harald or Josh on the > > committee. > > > > To be completely clear, I said I would have preferred having Lennart > on the WG. I did not state that I thought Harald or Josh should not be > members. That's an important distinction, I think :) > > I felt strongly enough that Lennart belonged on this group that I > chose to cast a token vote, knowing that it would not affect the outcome. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAlJ34PkACgkQeiVVYja6o6MrUwCgpYhhbnQ2eFX/c4Eb8bSAbBVs > fB4AoIKJyckoVozKnZyh03E0MfMzmpxy > =L79V > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Howdy folks. Looking forward to getting to work on base design. Regarding the voting members I feel we have a great group. Everyone intersted (voting or not) should participate in our discussions. My vote will certainly be influenced by anyone in the community willing to participate. :-) 100% :) One thing I would like to talk about is embedded Fedora, mostly as that is my personal area of involvement with the project. There is not an embedded working group, and it's my agenda to hopefully have the base design double as embedded. It makes sense to me in the sense that base ring-zero is sort of the embedded core into cloud, server, or workstation. By itself base would be suitable for the smallest deployment. Thats a really good point, and one i do share as well: The Base needs to be able to serve as a starting point for every current and any potential future Fedora products. And to do so means we need to find the smallest common denominator. Of course this is just my personal opinion, and we'll discuss this among many other topics during our meetings. And last but not least in collaboration with the other WGs, as they rely on us to deliver something they can use as a, well, "Base". ;) Another item I'd like to consider for the initial discussion is the release cycle for the base design. My feeling is that base is small enough and simple enough to allow a more frequent release, perhaps even continuously. My guess is the other WGs will have their own ideas for how frequently they output. So base WG would need to be the lowest common denominator in that way. Obviouly rel-eng and qa need to represent for this topic. :-) Right, release cycle will definitely be a hot topic, and i'd like us to investigate different types as well, e.g. not a time based but a major feature based cycle (e.g. new upstream kernel -> new release), continuous, support time for releases, what about feature backports and so forth. Lots revolving around those topics i think. One request i also already got was if we in the Base WG could take a look at containers/sandboxes for applications as well. Basically so that the technology could be used by any derived product built on top of Base. And as there are currently multiple competing technologies being worked on (docker.io, systemd containers, libvirt-lxc, openshift cartridges) we'd need to evaluate those and decide which one(s) we'd want to offer as a "standard" from the Base product. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: [Fedora Base Design WG] Committee FESCO approved, next steps
On 11/04/2013 07:01 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/04/2013 11:07 AM, Phil Knirsch wrote: Hi everyone. A quick update from my side regarding the Base Design WG: - My proposed committee was approved by FESCO last Wednesday. One negative vote came from Stephen Gallagher that he would have very much preferred to have Lennart instead of Harald or Josh on the committee. To be completely clear, I said I would have preferred having Lennart on the WG. I did not state that I thought Harald or Josh should not be members. That's an important distinction, I think :) I felt strongly enough that Lennart belonged on this group that I chose to cast a token vote, knowing that it would not affect the outcome. Apologies if i phrased that a badly. I didn't intend to either play down your opinion or the importance and contributions of Lennart. I definitely hope he will participate and contribute to the Base WG even if he isn't a voting member of the committee. After all, in my personal opinion the committee's decision should strongly be influenced exactly by that kind of participation and input from interested parties. And taking in all aspects and weighing them based on feasibility, resources, importance and other criteria everyone will have and then, as a group, come to a final decision that everyone can and will support. Thanks & regards, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Manager Core Services| Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Wankelstrasse 5 | Web: http://www.redhat.com/ D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
