Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Le mardi 26 juin 2012 à 22:31:09 (+0100), Pádraig Brady a écrit : On 06/26/2012 07:35 PM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz said: Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. The OpenSSH devs might be open to such. I'd be willing to take it up with them and write a patch (if they'll accept it). Yeah that should be the best thing: not sending $TERM through ssh (even telnet would need it I think). Needs investigation. This would avoid many hacks (profile.d, command in authorized_keys…) [snip] The usual way to set/adjust TERM appropriate for the remote system is just to use the startup files there. This is what I add to ~/.profile on a solaris system for example: [ $SSH_CONNECTION ] export TERM=xterm I'm not sure adding such functionality to .ssh/config would be of much benefit TBH. As Chris said, the remote needs to be able to run this. -- Kévin Raymond (Shaiton) pgpCeEXndM2ra.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 26/06/12 18:45, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:24 AM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote: We discussed this in fesco today and had a couple of concerns. Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. heh, that's exactly why this cruft ended up in my .bashrc :) # xterm does not support color on solaris # https://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=1641 case $(uname -s) in SunOS) case $TERM in xterm) TERM=xtermc ;; esac ;; # but only Solaris knows xtermc *) case $TERM in xtermc) TERM=xterm ;; esac ;; esac and that is just to get any colors at all... -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 06/26/2012 03:56 AM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said: On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 08:47:16PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: Trying to do this in profile scripts assumes that you only run local terminals that come from Fedora and that have been tested. For example, if you SSH to a Fedora box from an old xterm that doesn't do 256 colors, what happens if profile automagically turns xterm into xterm-256color? The proposal actually handles that by parsing the output of the who command, but I'm not sure I'm morally in favour of that. That wasn't there when I checked before my email, so I didn't know that. It sounds like adding one hack on top of another; trying to parse the output of a command not documented to have a fixed specific format is an even worse idea IMHO. Fair enough. The main caveat with per terminal settings is that it might be desired to provide config options per terminal. Though I suppose users can always override TERM in their startup files in the unlikely case they need to change back to 'xterm' for example. Note the feature is not completed at all. The presented /etc/profile.d/256colors.sh was only a 2 minute hack that I thought was worth presenting as it allows one to easily check the feature and it does actually work in the vast majority of cases. I'm also always looking to avoid having more programs automatically run at the start of a login. If you've ever had to deal with logging into an overloaded system, the last thing you want is a profile script doing who and grep just to try to override the TERM variable to make it prettier. I'd like to see less of that, not more. Agreed. cheers, Pádraig. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
2012/6/26 Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net: The newer terminal programs have configuration menus for various things; do any of them set it there? If they don't, I would think it would be relatively easy to add (and hopefully upstreams would accept such patches). Tried with XFCE's Terminal, which has a $TERM option in its configuration dialog (under advanced options), but it simply doesn't work. I set it to xterm-256color, but within the shell, TERM is still xterm. Not sure whether that is an XFCE (or vte) bug, or whether some system-wide profile script overrides it. Afaict, none of my user profile scripts overrides it. - Thomas -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 06/26/2012 02:37 PM, Thomas Moschny wrote: 2012/6/26 Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net: The newer terminal programs have configuration menus for various things; do any of them set it there? If they don't, I would think it would be relatively easy to add (and hopefully upstreams would accept such patches). Tried with XFCE's Terminal, which has a $TERM option in its configuration dialog (under advanced options), but it simply doesn't work. I set it to xterm-256color, but within the shell, TERM is still xterm. Not sure whether that is an XFCE (or vte) bug, or whether some system-wide profile script overrides it. Afaict, none of my user profile scripts overrides it. See bottom comment here: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/21007#comment94595 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 06/26/2012 08:50 AM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Pádraig Brady p...@draigbrady.com said: The main caveat with per terminal settings is that it might be desired to provide config options per terminal. Though I suppose users can always override TERM in their startup files in the unlikely case they need to change back to 'xterm' for example. I still use plain old xterm (the terminal program), and it allows you to override the TERM variable in a couple of ways. There's a command-line option, and there's the old X resource termName. The newer terminal programs have configuration menus for various things; do any of them set it there? If they don't, I would think it would be relatively easy to add (and hopefully upstreams would accept such patches). -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 06/26/2012 06:54 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote: . The main caveat with per terminal settings is that it might be desired to provide config options per terminal. Though I suppose users can always override TERM in their startup files in the unlikely case they need to change back to 'xterm' for example. Unlikely Pffft!!What else do you resort to every time gnome-terminal won't start because dbus has crashed? John -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:20:56AM -0400, John Ellson wrote: On 06/26/2012 06:54 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote: . The main caveat with per terminal settings is that it might be desired to provide config options per terminal. Though I suppose users can always override TERM in their startup files in the unlikely case they need to change back to 'xterm' for example. Unlikely Pffft!!What else do you resort to every time gnome-terminal won't start because dbus has crashed? Unclear what that has to do with the contents of your TERM variable. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On Tue, 2012-06-26 at 10:20 -0400, John Ellson wrote: On 06/26/2012 06:54 AM, Pádraig Brady wrote: The main caveat with per terminal settings is that it might be desired to provide config options per terminal. Though I suppose users can always override TERM in their startup files in the unlikely case they need to change back to 'xterm' for example. Unlikely Pffft!!What else do you resort to every time gnome-terminal won't start because dbus has crashed? One never hits that scenario, because: a) gnome-terminal runs just fine without dbus (unset DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS and run with --disable-factory to verify) b) when dbus crashes, so does gnome-session, so there's really no question of launching another terminal - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:24 AM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote: We discussed this in fesco today and had a couple of concerns. Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Miloslav Trmač wrote: Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. And I strongly suspect that a correct solution would have to translate xterm-256color to xterm, screen-256color to screen et cetera. Simply setting TERM=xterm in all SSH sessions is probably not sufficient. Björn Persson signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Once upon a time, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz said: Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. The OpenSSH devs might be open to such. I'd be willing to take it up with them and write a patch (if they'll accept it). Any suggestions on how it should work? Ideally, some way to say drop the -256color suffix from TERM if preset would be best. -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 06/26/2012 07:35 PM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz said: Another one is that connecting to systems that don't support xterm-256 is not quite easy. In particular, there appears to be no way to configure ~/.ssh/config so that ssh oldhost (and ssh oldhost arbitrarycommand) transparently changes the TERM value - one would have to set up shell functions or something similar. An extension of the ssh would be very nice - and failing that, an explicit recipe how to override TERM correctly would be welcome as well. The OpenSSH devs might be open to such. I'd be willing to take it up with them and write a patch (if they'll accept it). Any suggestions on how it should work? Ideally, some way to say drop the -256color suffix from TERM if preset would be best. Well this is a general issue. For example with urxvt we have: $ echo $TERM $COLORTERM rxvt-unicode rxvt-xpm So sshing from urxvt already needs resetting of $TERM on various systems. I guess this issue might be some of the reason for the reluctance to address: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230682 The usual way to set/adjust TERM appropriate for the remote system is just to use the startup files there. This is what I add to ~/.profile on a solaris system for example: [ $SSH_CONNECTION ] export TERM=xterm I'm not sure adding such functionality to .ssh/config would be of much benefit TBH. cheers, Pádraig. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Once upon a time, Pádraig Brady p...@draigbrady.com said: The usual way to set/adjust TERM appropriate for the remote system is just to use the startup files there. This is what I add to ~/.profile on a solaris system for example: Well, that works when the other end is a system that has a shell and runs login scripts. I also SSH to routers, switches, firewalls, etc., and I need a recognized TERM there as well. At least some of the routers I use recognize xterm-256color, but they don't recognize screen-256color (although I don't know if this proposal adresses screen, it would be good to have a general solution). -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
We discussed this in fesco today and had a couple of concerns. The primary one was that handling this in profile seemed a bit fragile. It seems like it would be more correct to have the terminals explicitly set xterm-256 themselves if they're capable of it, rather than assuming things about the binaries that a user may have installed. It's a little more work, although not a great deal - by the looks of it vte sets this itself, so a single patch would handle most of the GTK cases. Thoughts? -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said: We discussed this in fesco today and had a couple of concerns. The primary one was that handling this in profile seemed a bit fragile. It seems like it would be more correct to have the terminals explicitly set xterm-256 themselves if they're capable of it, rather than assuming things about the binaries that a user may have installed. It's a little more work, although not a great deal - by the looks of it vte sets this itself, so a single patch would handle most of the GTK cases. Thoughts? That would make a lot more sense to me - TERM is set by the terminal program to communicate its functionality to the shell and child programs. The shell init (profile) scripts should not change that because they know better; if the terminal supports 256 colors, it should set an appropriate TERM value to indicate that. You should basically _never_ override TERM unless you really know what you are doing. For example, when SSHing to something with a smaller terminal info database, you might override TERM with a value known to be a subset of the current TERM, such as replacing xterm-256color with xterm. Otherwise, you should leave it alone. Trying to do this in profile scripts assumes that you only run local terminals that come from Fedora and that have been tested. For example, if you SSH to a Fedora box from an old xterm that doesn't do 256 colors, what happens if profile automagically turns xterm into xterm-256color? -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 08:47:16PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: Trying to do this in profile scripts assumes that you only run local terminals that come from Fedora and that have been tested. For example, if you SSH to a Fedora box from an old xterm that doesn't do 256 colors, what happens if profile automagically turns xterm into xterm-256color? The proposal actually handles that by parsing the output of the who command, but I'm not sure I'm morally in favour of that. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org said: On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 08:47:16PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: Trying to do this in profile scripts assumes that you only run local terminals that come from Fedora and that have been tested. For example, if you SSH to a Fedora box from an old xterm that doesn't do 256 colors, what happens if profile automagically turns xterm into xterm-256color? The proposal actually handles that by parsing the output of the who command, but I'm not sure I'm morally in favour of that. That wasn't there when I checked before my email, so I didn't know that. It sounds like adding one hack on top of another; trying to parse the output of a command not documented to have a fixed specific format is an even worse idea IMHO. The terminal program has very few standard ways to communicate information to programs running in it: - the TERM environment variable - TTY settings (i.e. erase, rows, columns) - answer-back escape sequences Trying to use anything outside of that data is a bad idea. Trying to divine anything else (or just ignore it and assume you know better) is bound to fail. What if another terminal program comes along that only emulates traditional xterm (with only 8 colors)? How does a profile script know that everything that says xterm can do 256 colors? Or put it another way: why shouldn't this go in the terminal programs that support 256 colors? That way they can be tested, and if any one of them has a problem, the change can be reverted for just that one (while the rest that work correctly get the benefit of 256 colors). I'm also always looking to avoid having more programs automatically run at the start of a login. If you've ever had to deal with logging into an overloaded system, the last thing you want is a profile script doing who and grep just to try to override the TERM variable to make it prettier. I'd like to see less of that, not more. -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On Thursday 31 May 2012 02:20:26 Pádraig Brady wrote: On 05/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marc Deop wrote: On Wednesday 30 May 2012 10:04:49 Pádraig Brady wrote: I've some notes about 256 colors here: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/terminal_colours/#256 That information is mostly fine. There are some errors though (you say you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc...) Yes. If you follow the link to my .bashrc it further clarifies that to handle all cases, the variable should be set earlier in ~/.profile or system wide in /etc/profile.d/... Still wrong in my opinion. This should be set by your terminal emulator (be it konsole, gnome-terminal or whatever) and not in your personal environment. You would end up having to check for *a lot* of things If you restrict yourself to local xterms (of most varieties) you're fine. Nowadays you'll be fine almost everywhere. Your system should not set the TERM variable to xterm or whatever if you are in a virtual terminal (that would happen if you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc for example...) Well that also happens if set in /etc/profile etc. What you need to do I think is guard like: $ cat /etc/profile.d/256color.sh [ $TERM = 'xterm' ] TERM=xterm-256color; export TERM What happens with urxvt or eterm terminals? As said above, .profile or .bashrc or whatever is not a good place to set this things However... 256 color doesn't work correctly on Linux virtual consoles. Totally true Handled with the conditional above That works for VT that use xterm as TERM environment but... what of other ones? Also since your $TERM is propagated to remote systems when you ssh, if they don't support that you'll have issues. For example sshing to debian systems (I've not tried newer releases) will be problematic unless a package in installed there. Also if I ssh to solaris then I need to reset TERM to xterm for man pages to work correctly etc. IMHO this should be the other way around: for old systems where the 256 don't work you should manually set your TERM variable to something that would work and not the other way around This could be contentious. However I notice (from searching the web) is that Mac OS X Terminal's default $TERM value is xterm-256color since Lion 10.7. What I'd do (I will do if you prefer) is to propose the feature at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList That will both provide a todo list and allow voting on acceptance. That sounds reasonable, +1 for me here! :) Also in the release notes we should have notes for workarounds for older systems where you would have issues. I notice ncurses-term is still 'standard' rather than 'required' in debian. Perhaps we could log a request for that to change? Note that package is 6.6MB installed so maybe the 256 color support could be merged back to ncurses-base ? I just tried ubuntu 12.04 there and it also doesn't install ncurses-term. I did the following to double check: $ TERM=xterm-256colors man ls WARNING: terminal is not fully functional You made a spelling mistake there, try again without the s: xterm-256color There is still further issues to consider locally. screen and vim settings would need to be tweaked also as per: http://www.robmeerman.co.uk/unix/256colours Vim would work just not with all the colors. We could set an environment configuration enabling 256 colors by default as well, couldn't we? As for screen... I don't even remember how to set it, I would need to do some research on it Great discussion Pádraig :) Thanks! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
[snip] What I'd do (I will do if you prefer) is to propose the feature at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList That will both provide a todo list and allow voting on acceptance. That sounds reasonable, +1 for me here! :) This thread was to get the whole problem before proposing this feature. If you want to lead that Pádraig, no probs for me. Else I'll take it and sort this out with you guys. [snip] There is still further issues to consider locally. screen and vim settings would need to be tweaked also as per: http://www.robmeerman.co.uk/unix/256colours Vim would work just not with all the colors. We could set an environment configuration enabling 256 colors by default as well, couldn't we? vim works out of the box with xterm in 256 colors at least. As for screen... I don't even remember how to set it, I would need to do some research on it For screen, I am using `term screen-256color ' But again, it depends on the TERM used. -- Kévin Raymond (shaiton) GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 05/31/2012 11:09 AM, Marc Deop i Argemí wrote: On Thursday 31 May 2012 02:20:26 Pádraig Brady wrote: On 05/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marc Deop wrote: On Wednesday 30 May 2012 10:04:49 Pádraig Brady wrote: I've some notes about 256 colors here: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/terminal_colours/#256 That information is mostly fine. There are some errors though (you say you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc...) Yes. If you follow the link to my .bashrc it further clarifies that to handle all cases, the variable should be set earlier in ~/.profile or system wide in /etc/profile.d/... Still wrong in my opinion. This should be set by your terminal emulator (be it konsole, gnome-terminal or whatever) and not in your personal environment. You would end up having to check for *a lot* of things I'm leaning towards needing the configurability of a /etc/profile.d/256color.sh file. That could be a central config point and support various required TERM and TERMCAP tweaks. If you restrict yourself to local xterms (of most varieties) you're fine. Nowadays you'll be fine almost everywhere. Your system should not set the TERM variable to xterm or whatever if you are in a virtual terminal (that would happen if you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc for example...) Well that also happens if set in /etc/profile etc. What you need to do I think is guard like: $ cat /etc/profile.d/256color.sh [ $TERM = 'xterm' ] TERM=xterm-256color; export TERM What happens with urxvt or eterm terminals? As said above, .profile or .bashrc or whatever is not a good place to set this things However... 256 color doesn't work correctly on Linux virtual consoles. Totally true Handled with the conditional above That works for VT that use xterm as TERM environment but... what of other ones? So why do they have separate TERM than 'xterm'; do they have separate facilities they want to distinguish? I tried urxvt there and it sets TERM=rxvt-unicode I notice that vim at least recognizes this as 256 color already. Note 'rxvt-unicode' has the same issue when I ssh to solaris: $ man ls WARNING: terminal is not fully functional /tmp/blahblah (press RETURN) If the minority of xterms want to set their own TERM value, then we shouldn't worry about it I think, as those values will have to be dealt specifically by apps/systems anyway. By mapping xterm to xterm-256color we catch most terminals, and hopefully there are none of those that don't support 256 colors. Any that don't could be excluded anyway. Also since your $TERM is propagated to remote systems when you ssh, if they don't support that you'll have issues. For example sshing to debian systems (I've not tried newer releases) will be problematic unless a package in installed there. Also if I ssh to solaris then I need to reset TERM to xterm for man pages to work correctly etc. IMHO this should be the other way around: for old systems where the 256 don't work you should manually set your TERM variable to something that would work and not the other way around This could be contentious. However I notice (from searching the web) is that Mac OS X Terminal's default $TERM value is xterm-256color since Lion 10.7. What I'd do (I will do if you prefer) is to propose the feature at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList That will both provide a todo list and allow voting on acceptance. That sounds reasonable, +1 for me here! :) I'll let Kévin do this as it was his initiative. I'll help out wherever is needed. Also in the release notes we should have notes for workarounds for older systems where you would have issues. I notice ncurses-term is still 'standard' rather than 'required' in debian. Perhaps we could log a request for that to change? Note that package is 6.6MB installed so maybe the 256 color support could be merged back to ncurses-base ? I just tried ubuntu 12.04 there and it also doesn't install ncurses-term. I did the following to double check: $ TERM=xterm-256colors man ls WARNING: terminal is not fully functional You made a spelling mistake there, try again without the s: xterm-256color Oops you're right. In fact ubuntu 12.04 at least does have 256 color support by default. I.E. not enabled by default, but supported if set: $ TERM=xterm-256color tput colors 256 There is still further issues to consider locally. screen and vim settings would need to be tweaked also as per: http://www.robmeerman.co.uk/unix/256colours Vim would work just not with all the colors. We could set an environment configuration enabling 256 colors by default as well, couldn't we? vim is fine outside of screen. But when used with screen there needs to be tweaks. Perhaps Kévin's suggestion of mapping TERM=screen to screen-256color would just work? As for screen... I don't even remember how to set it, I would need to do some research on it Great discussion Pádraig :) cheers,
Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
Hi there, We are building a leading edge Operating System, but still use only 8bit colors by default in our terminal (I don't know about KDE… I stay under GNOME, gnome-term (xterm)). This limit the colors of many applications like vim, screen, tmux, weechat… As seen (quick but not exhaustive check), all dependencies for xterm in 256 colors are there, we just need to define `TERM=xterm-256color' in order to get 256 colors… So what would be needed? -- Kévin Raymond (shaiton) GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 05/30/2012 09:30 AM, Kévin Raymond wrote: Hi there, We are building a leading edge Operating System, but still use only 8bit colors by default in our terminal (I don't know about KDE… I stay under GNOME, gnome-term (xterm)). This limit the colors of many applications like vim, screen, tmux, weechat… As seen (quick but not exhaustive check), all dependencies for xterm in 256 colors are there, we just need to define `TERM=xterm-256color' in order to get 256 colors… So what would be needed? I've some notes about 256 colors here: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/terminal_colours/#256 If you restrict yourself to local xterms (of most varieties) you're fine. However... 256 color doesn't work correctly on Linux virtual consoles. Also since your $TERM is propagated to remote systems when you ssh, if they don't support that you'll have issues. For example sshing to debian systems (I've not tried newer releases) will be problematic unless a package in installed there. Also if I ssh to solaris then I need to reset TERM to xterm for man pages to work correctly etc. So it's one of those borderline things that is unfortunately dependent on the users environment, so I'd be wary about changing this default. cheers, Pádraig. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Couldn't we enable 256 colors by default on TERM?
On 05/30/2012 04:16 PM, Marc Deop wrote: On Wednesday 30 May 2012 10:04:49 Pádraig Brady wrote: I've some notes about 256 colors here: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/terminal_colours/#256 That information is mostly fine. There are some errors though (you say you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc...) Yes. If you follow the link to my .bashrc it further clarifies that to handle all cases, the variable should be set earlier in ~/.profile or system wide in /etc/profile.d/... If you restrict yourself to local xterms (of most varieties) you're fine. Nowadays you'll be fine almost everywhere. Your system should not set the TERM variable to xterm or whatever if you are in a virtual terminal (that would happen if you set your TERM variable in your .bashrc for example...) Well that also happens if set in /etc/profile etc. What you need to do I think is guard like: $ cat /etc/profile.d/256color.sh [ $TERM = 'xterm' ] TERM=xterm-256color; export TERM However... 256 color doesn't work correctly on Linux virtual consoles. Totally true Handled with the conditional above Also since your $TERM is propagated to remote systems when you ssh, if they don't support that you'll have issues. For example sshing to debian systems (I've not tried newer releases) will be problematic unless a package in installed there. Also if I ssh to solaris then I need to reset TERM to xterm for man pages to work correctly etc. IMHO this should be the other way around: for old systems where the 256 don't work you should manually set your TERM variable to something that would work and not the other way around This could be contentious. However I notice (from searching the web) is that Mac OS X Terminal's default $TERM value is xterm-256color since Lion 10.7. What I'd do (I will do if you prefer) is to propose the feature at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList That will both provide a todo list and allow voting on acceptance. Also in the release notes we should have notes for workarounds for older systems where you would have issues. I notice ncurses-term is still 'standard' rather than 'required' in debian. Perhaps we could log a request for that to change? Note that package is 6.6MB installed so maybe the 256 color support could be merged back to ncurses-base ? I just tried ubuntu 12.04 there and it also doesn't install ncurses-term. I did the following to double check: $ TERM=xterm-256colors man ls WARNING: terminal is not fully functional So it's one of those borderline things that is unfortunately dependent on the users environment, so I'd be wary about changing this default. I see no problem in setting the gnome-terminal (or konsole or whatever) to use 256 by default in a bleeding edge distro like Fedora. Again, we should change this settings when they do not work ;) There is still further issues to consider locally. screen and vim settings would need to be tweaked also as per: http://www.robmeerman.co.uk/unix/256colours cheers, Pádraig. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
