Re: Minimization Objective report
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 8:22 PM Adam Jackson wrote: > On Fri, 2019-11-15 at 23:38 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Adam Samalik wrote: > > > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — > includes > > > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but > it's > > > there! > > > > Almost 2 months of work to save… 0.5%! That does not look like a huge > > success to me. You simply cannot win against the creeping bloat. :-( > > Ahem. > > In the spirit of positivity and collaboration, I spent a few minutes > looking at the results given to try to find some easy wins. Here's what > I found: > > python3-libs ships multiple copies of its pyc files, corresponding to > different optimization levels. I don't know what a good packaging > solution to that would look like, but if we only shipped the -O2 kind > (which seems appropriate for minimization, as they're smallest) we > could drop about 13M out of 32M, which seems pretty great. > > About 2/3 of glib2 is translations. If it was langpacked like glibc you > could drop another 8M. Likewise about 9M out of 10M for coreutils- > common, 4.5 out of 7.5 for bash, 4 out of 10 for gnupg2. > > You're not using coreutils-single, which would save you another 6M or > so. > > It's hard to understand why dejavu-sans-fonts is in there, since there > are zero font libraries installed in the container base. Probably > that's brought in by the langpacks somewhere along the line, but it > seems like fonts and translations should be logically separate here (no > point installing fonts if you're not going to be printing or making > images, right?). That's another 5.5M. > > That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base image, a > bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these somewhere > if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If you're > not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me for > not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very seriously. > Hey Adam, Thanks for looking into that. If you could file those bugs that would be fantastic. I'm sure we can win if there are enough eyes looking for improvements :-) Especially if we have tooling / services that will help us to _keep_ things over time. Cheers, Adam > > - ajax > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Miro Hrončok wrote: > That was put there by me. I understood from the mailing list discussions > that you suggested the same thing as Jan, not just repeated what he said. Indeed, I had not read Jan's mail when I sent mine. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
- Original Message - > From: "Kevin Kofler" > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 1:08:34 AM > Subject: Re: Minimization Objective report > > Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > > We heard the feedback and did a lot of experimentation and benchmarking > > with a ton of different options so I really can't fathom how you are > > taking credit for something that others invested so much time in. > > The new Feature page: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup > > explicitly credits 4 people, one of whom is me: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup#Owner > > Shout-out: Jan Kratochvíl for first suggesting this instead of the > > original proposal, followed by Kevin Kofler. Florian Weimer for providing > > answers to our questions. David Gray for originally suggesting to link > > Python statically to gain performance. > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Yes. My point still stands. -- Regards, Charalampos Stratakis Software Engineer Python Maintenance Team, Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On 21. 11. 19 1:08, Kevin Kofler wrote: Charalampos Stratakis wrote: We heard the feedback and did a lot of experimentation and benchmarking with a ton of different options so I really can't fathom how you are taking credit for something that others invested so much time in. The new Feature page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup explicitly credits 4 people, one of whom is me: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup#Owner Shout-out: Jan Kratochvíl for first suggesting this instead of the original proposal, followed by Kevin Kofler. Florian Weimer for providing answers to our questions. David Gray for originally suggesting to link Python statically to gain performance. That was put there by me. I understood from the mailing list discussions that you suggested the same thing as Jan, not just repeated what he said. However, I see that not everybody might have seen it that way. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > We heard the feedback and did a lot of experimentation and benchmarking > with a ton of different options so I really can't fathom how you are > taking credit for something that others invested so much time in. The new Feature page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup explicitly credits 4 people, one of whom is me: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup#Owner > Shout-out: Jan Kratochvíl for first suggesting this instead of the > original proposal, followed by Kevin Kofler. Florian Weimer for providing > answers to our questions. David Gray for originally suggesting to link > Python statically to gain performance. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
- Original Message - > From: "Kevin Kofler" > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 7:10:32 PM > Subject: Re: Minimization Objective report > > Adam Jackson wrote: > > You're right, you spend two months achieving zero towards this goal, > > Well, just a few days ago, I managed to stop a Change that would have almost > doubled Python 3's size wherever both the python3 executable and the > libpython3 library are needed, and to point out an alternative (though Jan > Kratochvil beat me to it by ~64 minutes) that brings the same performance > gain without the size increase (-fno-semantic-interposition). > > I am constantly trying to fight bloat, but it is usually a political rather > than a technical fight. And the typical outcome (see, e.g., MiniDebugInfo) > is where my "defeatist attitude" comes from. > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > I'm sorry but how exactly did you manage to 'stop' the change? All you did was started shouting about the size increase and then proposed something already mentioned beforehand in the thread. Your feedback was NOT helpful and it basically pushed people away from wanting to participate to the thread. Luckily sorting through the useful info was possible but still frustrating in between your rants. We heard the feedback and did a lot of experimentation and benchmarking with a ton of different options so I really can't fathom how you are taking credit for something that others invested so much time in. /offtopic rant over -- Regards, Charalampos Stratakis Software Engineer Python Maintenance Team, Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Adam Jackson wrote: > You're right, you spend two months achieving zero towards this goal, Well, just a few days ago, I managed to stop a Change that would have almost doubled Python 3's size wherever both the python3 executable and the libpython3 library are needed, and to point out an alternative (though Jan Kratochvil beat me to it by ~64 minutes) that brings the same performance gain without the size increase (-fno-semantic-interposition). I am constantly trying to fight bloat, but it is usually a political rather than a technical fight. And the typical outcome (see, e.g., MiniDebugInfo) is where my "defeatist attitude" comes from. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 6:05 PM David Malcolm wrote: > On Wed, 2019-11-20 at 11:22 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-11-20 at 02:53 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > > Adam Jackson wrote: > > > > That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base > > > > image, a > > > > bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these > > > > somewhere > > > > if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If > > > > you're > > > > not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me > > > > for > > > > not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very > > > > seriously. > > > > > > I am not the one who spent 2 months gaining 0.5%… > > > > You're right, you spend two months achieving zero towards this goal, > > and complaining about what progress they _have_ made. You have > > provided > > zero constructive feedback, and your defeatist attitude helps nobody. > > > > Consider the option of not being gratuitously unpleasant. > > It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. > > Writing a script that automates figuring out how many candles are > needed (and where) is also better than cursing the darkness. > I am so going to make a poster on my wall with this message. Thank you, Dave. -- Aleksandra Fedorova bookwar ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Wed, 2019-11-20 at 11:22 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Wed, 2019-11-20 at 02:53 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Adam Jackson wrote: > > > That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base > > > image, a > > > bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these > > > somewhere > > > if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If > > > you're > > > not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me > > > for > > > not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very > > > seriously. > > > > I am not the one who spent 2 months gaining 0.5%… > > You're right, you spend two months achieving zero towards this goal, > and complaining about what progress they _have_ made. You have > provided > zero constructive feedback, and your defeatist attitude helps nobody. > > Consider the option of not being gratuitously unpleasant. It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. Writing a script that automates figuring out how many candles are needed (and where) is also better than cursing the darkness. Dave ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Wed, 2019-11-20 at 02:53 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Jackson wrote: > > That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base image, a > > bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these somewhere > > if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If you're > > not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me for > > not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very seriously. > > I am not the one who spent 2 months gaining 0.5%… You're right, you spend two months achieving zero towards this goal, and complaining about what progress they _have_ made. You have provided zero constructive feedback, and your defeatist attitude helps nobody. Consider the option of not being gratuitously unpleasant. - ajax ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:42 PM Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Samalik wrote: > > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes > > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but > it's > > there! > > Almost 2 months of work to save… 0.5%! That does not look like a huge > success to me. You simply cannot win against the creeping bloat. :-( > Looking at more than two months, ideally at times where this was an active focus, you can see the base image went from ~300 MB to ~200 MB. [1] To be super clear, a lot of the work has been done by the Container Team [2]. But I'm glad this is helping you to see the progress, and I'm looking forward to see even more progress. [1] https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/fedora-base-image-sizes.png [2] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/containers/ > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 7:16 PM Robbie Harwood wrote: > Adam Samalik writes: > > > This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. > > > > Status: Discovery phase > > > > == Next phase approval == > > > > Next phase proposal [1] is being voted on by the Council — only positive > > votes so far! > > > > == Feedback Pipeline == > > > > A few new features developed! > > > > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes > > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but > it's > > there! > > This is a neat graph. However, it doesn't index the Y-axis from 0. > Could you please fix that? > Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into that! > > Thanks, > --Robbie > > > [2] History graph: > > > https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-base-definition--fedora-container-base--rawhide.html > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Adam Jackson wrote: > That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base image, a > bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these somewhere > if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If you're > not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me for > not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very seriously. I am not the one who spent 2 months gaining 0.5%… Also, most of your suggestions (and also most of the ideas the Minimization team has been floating so far) are very specific to the cloud image and will do absolutely nothing to decrease the size of real-world Fedora installations and live images. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Fri, 2019-11-15 at 23:38 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Samalik wrote: > > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes > > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but it's > > there! > > Almost 2 months of work to save… 0.5%! That does not look like a huge > success to me. You simply cannot win against the creeping bloat. :-( Ahem. In the spirit of positivity and collaboration, I spent a few minutes looking at the results given to try to find some easy wins. Here's what I found: python3-libs ships multiple copies of its pyc files, corresponding to different optimization levels. I don't know what a good packaging solution to that would look like, but if we only shipped the -O2 kind (which seems appropriate for minimization, as they're smallest) we could drop about 13M out of 32M, which seems pretty great. About 2/3 of glib2 is translations. If it was langpacked like glibc you could drop another 8M. Likewise about 9M out of 10M for coreutils- common, 4.5 out of 7.5 for bash, 4 out of 10 for gnupg2. You're not using coreutils-single, which would save you another 6M or so. It's hard to understand why dejavu-sans-fonts is in there, since there are zero font libraries installed in the container base. Probably that's brought in by the langpacks somewhere along the line, but it seems like fonts and translations should be logically separate here (no point installing fonts if you're not going to be printing or making images, right?). That's another 5.5M. That's about 44M worth of potential savings out of a 204M base image, a bit over 20%. I'll happily file proper bug reports for these somewhere if we want, but it took me like 30 minutes to look into this. If you're not even willing to put in _that_ little effort, then forgive me for not taking your assertion that "you simply cannot win" very seriously. - ajax ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Adam Samalik wrote: > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but it's > there! Almost 2 months of work to save… 0.5%! That does not look like a huge success to me. You simply cannot win against the creeping bloat. :-( Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
Adam Samalik writes: > This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. > > Status: Discovery phase > > == Next phase approval == > > Next phase proposal [1] is being voted on by the Council — only positive > votes so far! > > == Feedback Pipeline == > > A few new features developed! > > 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes > data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but it's > there! This is a neat graph. However, it doesn't index the Y-axis from 0. Could you please fix that? Thanks, --Robbie > [2] History graph: > https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-base-definition--fedora-container-base--rawhide.html signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Next phase approval == Next phase proposal [1] is being voted on by the Council — only positive votes so far! == Feedback Pipeline == A few new features developed! 1/ A history chart for base images [2] is now being generated — includes data since 25 September. It's a bit rough initial implementation, but it's there! 2/ All tables are now data tables that support sorting and filtering. See an example [3]. 3/ Just a little touch: a better use case (and base image) list view [4] to help navigate with the growing number of use cases. == Kickstarts and comps groups == We're starting to look at kickstarts and comps groups to see if anything minimization-related could be done here. We realize changes could break things, we're just looking for options at the moment, potentially experimenting on the side. Actual changes would be of course coordinated. == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Next phase proposal: https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/274 [2] History graph: https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-base-definition--fedora-container-base--rawhide.html [3] Sorting and filtering: https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-by-use-case--mariadb-container-noweak--rawhide.html [4] Use case list view: https://minimization.github.io/reports/view--use-cases-on-bases.html [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Next phase approval == Next phase proposal [1] to be voted on by Council, starting tomorrow. Feedback still collected in the PR [2]. == Polkit and Mojzs == Finished investigation and send recommended changes to postgresql container and rpm team. - Investigated pokit ( .5 MB) and mozjs60 (30 MB) -- mozjs only needed for configurations -- Two major proposals in the past trying to fix the problem. --- Use duktape ( .7MB ) for javascript --- Use a different format but maintain compatibility -- Need to talk to fedora/rhel polkit maintainers -- fun fact: gentoo users, who had debug set, had 500M mozjs60 == Square 1 and Minimization == Looking at the recent Square 1 proposal [3], thinking if that should be included under the Minimization umbrella. == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Next phase proposal (post): https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/extending-the-minimization-objective/ [2] Next phase proposal (PR): https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/64 [3] Square 1 proposal: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/2V4Q7P3KN6O52NOBLXFRCKHZ27ZATF2G/#2V4Q7P3KN6O52NOBLXFRCKHZ27ZATF2G [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 10:50 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 16. 10. 19 20:14, Adam Samalik wrote:> == PostgreSQL == > > > > Started talking to the maintainers about removing systemd, python2, and > to > > consider skipping weak dependencies in the container use case. > > Thanks! Please keep mes looped in for the python2 thing. > Will do, thanks! > > -- > Miro Hrončok > -- > Phone: +420777974800 > IRC: mhroncok > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On 16. 10. 19 20:14, Adam Samalik wrote:> == PostgreSQL == Started talking to the maintainers about removing systemd, python2, and to consider skipping weak dependencies in the container use case. Thanks! Please keep mes looped in for the python2 thing. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Next phase proposed == The next phase has been proposed [1] [2] to the Council and feedback is being collected. A formal vote happens in two weeks. == PostgreSQL == Started talking to the maintainers about removing systemd, python2, and to consider skipping weak dependencies in the container use case. == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Next phase proposal (post): https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/extending-the-minimization-objective/ [2] Next phase proposal (PR): https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/64 [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Next phase definition == I'm putting together a proposal for the next phase approval. I've made a Logic Model [1] so far, more is coming soon. See the issue [2] to get more updates and to give feedback which is very welcome. == Splitting out systemd-sysusers == We still don't want Systemd in containers [3]. Trying to get the sysusers package split out (asked upstream) [4] so packages can use it without pulling the whole Systemd in. == Feedback Pipeline and Hacktoberfest == We're participating in Hacktoberfest [5] with Feedback Pipeline [6] to potentially get some contributions! == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Logic Model: https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/fedora-minimization-logic-model.pdf [2] Next phase issue: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/15 [3] systemd-sysusers vs. containers: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/13 [4] Splitting sysusers out: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/13653 [5] Hacktoberfest: https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-projects-for-hacktoberfest/ [6] Feedback Pipeline: https://github.com/minimization/feedback-pipeline [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 02:58:54PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 01:16:52PM -, Petr Pisar wrote:
> > > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of
> > > view?
> > The user that executes "grep -P"? Not many changes. Usually a corner
> > cases that have a different performance or exhibit bug fixes.
>
> Yeah, that's the user I'm concerned with in this case, since _we're_ the one
> switching the library. I'm imagining users with scripts written by a
> sysadmin or grad student fifteen years ago which happen to use `grep -P`
> suddenly and mysteriously doing the wrong thing.
Eh, seeing as the grep(1) manual page itself still declares the option
as experimental, I think people using it *should* be aware of the
possibility of slight changes in behavior.
G'luck,
PEter
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Re: Minimization Objective report
On 2019-09-30, James Cassell wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Petr Pisar wrote: >> On 2019-09-27, Matthew Miller wrote: >> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 05:52:31PM +0200, Adam Samalik wrote: >> >> == pcre -> pcre2 == >> >> Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] >> > >> > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of >> > view? >> > >> The user that executes "grep -P"? Not many changes. Usually a corner >> cases that have a different performance or exhibit bug fixes. >> > > As a frequent user of `grep -P`, I'd like to know whether there is any > loss of functionality with the switch. > As far as I know there is no intended loss of funcionality. PCRE test suite was enacted by the PCRE2 project. The same applies to the code. PCRE2 code was refactored. Not written from scratch. Regressions are fixed on the on-going basis. You can read PCRE2 NEWS file (or more verbose ChangeLog file) if you are interested in the fixes. -- Petr ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 01:16:52PM -, Petr Pisar wrote: > > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of > > view? > The user that executes "grep -P"? Not many changes. Usually a corner > cases that have a different performance or exhibit bug fixes. Yeah, that's the user I'm concerned with in this case, since _we're_ the one switching the library. I'm imagining users with scripts written by a sysadmin or grad student fifteen years ago which happen to use `grep -P` suddenly and mysteriously doing the wrong thing. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Petr Pisar wrote: > On 2019-09-27, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 05:52:31PM +0200, Adam Samalik wrote: > >> == pcre -> pcre2 == > >> Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] > > > > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of > > view? > > > The user that executes "grep -P"? Not many changes. Usually a corner > cases that have a different performance or exhibit bug fixes. > As a frequent user of `grep -P`, I'd like to know whether there is any loss of functionality with the switch. Otherwise, I'm a huge fan of the minimization objective; I hope to make it to the (recently cancelled) meetings when they happen. V/r, James Cassell ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On 2019-09-27, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 05:52:31PM +0200, Adam Samalik wrote: >> == pcre -> pcre2 == >> Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] > > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of > view? > The user that executes "grep -P"? Not many changes. Usually a corner cases that have a different performance or exhibit bug fixes. If you meant PCRE library users, then yes, there are many changes. If you use only a basic part of the API, then porting to PCRE2 is easy. If you use more advanced things like JIT, callouts, or custom memory allocators, then the changes are so big the I don't recommend writing a C macro spaghetti code to accommodate both APIs. -- Petr ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 08:47:03AM +0200, Igor Gnatenko wrote: > > == pcre -> pcre2 == > > > > Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] > > I'm curious if we should simply replace grep by ripgrep :) Crossed my mind too. But grep is 800k, ripgrep 4500k. In case of grep we use the shared library of course, but we need that anyway. So if the goal is to minimize images, changing the dep to a different lib is more attractive. On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 04:06:54PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of > view? pcre is not actively maintained, and pcre2 is getting new features, but the functionality supported by pcre should behave mostly the same. See e.g. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/pcre2-migration for some discussion. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 6:01 PM Adam Samalik wrote: > > This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. > > Status: Discovery phase > > == Regular meeting canceled == > > We have decided to cancel the regular Minimization Team Meeting [1] as we > prefer async discussions on #fedora-devel and de...@lists.fp.o. This makes it > more inclusive to people with other commitments or being in timezones that > prevent them attending the meeting at that specific time. > > == systemd-sysusers vs. containers == > > We don't want Systemd in containers [2], but we recognise this is a > container-specific problem. So we're asking other groups — Containers SIG and > people working with OpenShift — for how they're approaching this problem. > > == Feedback Pipeline == > > Feedback Pipeline [3] is now automated, refreshing every day. > > It also now includes sizes of individual packages in all reports, as well as > a timestamp. > > == pcre -> pcre2 == > > Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] I'm curious if we should simply replace grep by ripgrep :) > == How to get involved == > > See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach > out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket > in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. > > Cheers, > Adam > > > [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ > [1] Meeting canceled: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/14 > [2] systemd-sysusers vs. containers: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/13 > [3] Feedback Pipeline: https://minimization.github.io/reports/ > [4] switching grep to pcre2: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1755491 > [42] Action plan: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ > [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues > > -- > > Adam Šamalík > --- > Senior Software Engineer > Red Hat > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 05:52:31PM +0200, Adam Samalik wrote: > == pcre -> pcre2 == > Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] Is this a perfectly drop-in compatible replacement from a user point of view? -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Regular meeting canceled == We have decided to cancel the regular Minimization Team Meeting [1] as we prefer async discussions on #fedora-devel and de...@lists.fp.o. This makes it more inclusive to people with other commitments or being in timezones that prevent them attending the meeting at that specific time. == systemd-sysusers vs. containers == We don't want Systemd in containers [2], but we recognise this is a container-specific problem. So we're asking other groups — Containers SIG and people working with OpenShift — for how they're approaching this problem. == Feedback Pipeline == Feedback Pipeline [3] is now automated, refreshing every day. It also now includes sizes of individual packages in all reports, as well as a timestamp. == pcre -> pcre2 == Moving grep (one of the last packages using pcre) to pcre2. [4] == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Meeting canceled: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/14 [2] systemd-sysusers vs. containers: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/13 [3] Feedback Pipeline: https://minimization.github.io/reports/ [4] switching grep to pcre2: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1755491 [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == systemd-sysusers == Many packages pull in Systemd because of systemd-sysusers to create new users. This is fine in traditional setups where there already is Systemd, but for containers, that means pulling additional 60MB just to create a new user. This is being discussed. [1][2] One way to approach this is creating a "systemd-container-stub" basically something that says it's systemd, and might even have some functionality (like adding users) but doesn't have the baggage of systemd. We plan to coordinate with the Container SIG about approaching this problem as a bigger topic of accommodating traditional-environment-oriented packages in containers. == Weekly meeting == Discussing a new approach to the weekly meeting — the agenda and when to hold it. [3] == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Systemd-sysuser discussion: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/13 [2] Systemd-sysuser discussion: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/6YX6CEFBPU3XVZZEHTN6CBH2F7JDF35N/#EJD4BNBE52JTEOPKAT6HFOO4HVUPBTCH [3] Meeting discussion: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/14 [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Use case analysis == Removing Systemd dependency from container use cases: -- nginx -- * Pull request to drop systemd as a runtime requirement [1] -- httpd -- * Pull request to drop systemd as a runtime requirement [2] * They have one binary that requires systemd, will have a further discussion with them to figure out how to shrink the container/runtime size -- anaconda -- * Pull request to move flatpack-libs from anaconda-core to anaconda-gui [3] * Determined that flatpack-libs was in the correct space -- mariadb -- * Investigating removing systemd and perl from depenencies. * Perl is in two mongodb (client package) scripts. Possibly move it to mongodb-utils, similar to how mongodb-server-utils has the perl scripts for mongodb-server. * Still investigating if systemd could be removed safely or if something other than .service files need it. -- mozjs60 -- * This is a 25-30M installed package (different size on different arches). Do all packages really need it? -- IoT -- * Added it to the Feedback Pipeline [4] [5] * Researched anaconda minimizing [6] == Feedback Pipeline == Added issues to the github repo [7] to attract additional contributions + to indicate where the service is going. Looking into automation. == Ecosystems exploration == Collecting specific use cases [8] and making sure that each has its own issue in the tracker [43] and is added to the Feedback Pipeline [9]. == Admin == Issues in our tracker [43] now have labels corresponding to the focus areas in the action plan [42]. == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/nginx/pull-request/5 [2] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/httpd/pull-request/7 [3] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/anaconda/pull-request/5 [4] https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-by-use-case--iot--rawhide.html [5] https://minimization.github.io/reports/report-by-use-case--iot-x86_64--rawhide.html [6] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/anaconda/pull-request/5 [7] https://github.com/minimization/feedback-pipeline/issues [8] https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/11 [9] https://minimization.github.io/reports/view--use-cases-on-bases.html [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Feedback Pipeline == A prototype is live [1]! It shows packages and an overall size of use cases we are focusing on, installed on top of various Fedora bases. In addition to showing the current status, it will be also pushing package lists into git. By that, we'll get free web UI (Pagure or Github) showing differences between any points in time. Use cases and bases can be easily configured [2]. A blog post is still coming! == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Feedback Pipeline prototype: https://minimization.github.io/reports/ [2] Feedback Pipeline config: https://pagure.io/minimization/feedback-pipeline-config [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Minimization Objective report
This was an awesome objective update and one I hope we will see more of from other Objectives! regards, bex On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:33 AM Adam Samalik wrote: > This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. > > Status: Discovery phase > > == Toolbox == > > The 'showme' tool got renamed to 'rpm-showme' to make it more > discoverable. It has been also moved to a new repository of the same name > [1]. > > New features: > > * report — generates an html report [2] [3] comparing multiple > installations > * list — simply lists all packages of a given installation > * size — prints the total size of all packages in a given installation > > See the README in the repository [1] for more details. > > == Feedback Pipeline == > > Prototyping Feedback Pipeline — active monitoring and reporting of > dependency changes, more info coming in a blog post. > > Collaborating with the IoT Objective on some initial testing of the > Feedback Pipeline. > > == Use case analysis == > > Looking at 'httpd', 'nginx', and 'dnf' to see what could be potentially > minimized. > > == New Status page == > > A new status page [4] has been created showing, well, the current status, > and also listing all the reports (like this one). > > == How to get involved == > > See if there is anything interesting to you on the action plan [42], or > reach > out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket > in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. > > Cheers, > Adam > > > [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ > [1] rpm-showme: https://pagure.io/minimization/rpm-showme > [2] Example report 1: https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/showme/report.html > [3] Example report 2: > https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/showme/report-sizes.html > [4] Status page: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/status/ > [42] Action plan: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ > [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues > > -- > > Adam Šamalík > --- > Senior Software Engineer > Red Hat > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Brian "bex" Exelbierd (he/him/his) Fedora Community Action & Impact Coordinator @bexelbie | http://www.winglemeyer.org bexel...@redhat.com | b...@pobox.com ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. Status: Discovery phase == Toolbox == The 'showme' tool got renamed to 'rpm-showme' to make it more discoverable. It has been also moved to a new repository of the same name [1]. New features: * report — generates an html report [2] [3] comparing multiple installations * list — simply lists all packages of a given installation * size — prints the total size of all packages in a given installation See the README in the repository [1] for more details. == Feedback Pipeline == Prototyping Feedback Pipeline — active monitoring and reporting of dependency changes, more info coming in a blog post. Collaborating with the IoT Objective on some initial testing of the Feedback Pipeline. == Use case analysis == Looking at 'httpd', 'nginx', and 'dnf' to see what could be potentially minimized. == New Status page == A new status page [4] has been created showing, well, the current status, and also listing all the reports (like this one). == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on the action plan [42], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [43] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] rpm-showme: https://pagure.io/minimization/rpm-showme [2] Example report 1: https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/showme/report.html [3] Example report 2: https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/showme/report-sizes.html [4] Status page: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/status/ [42] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ [43] Issue tracker: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: 'showme' RPM dependency visualizer (was: Minimization Objective report)
Moved: https://pagure.io/minimization/rpm-showme I'm now updating all the references. On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 2:12 PM Adam Samalik wrote: > Yeah, that's a good point. I might rename the repo as well. Thanks for the > suggestion! > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 1:15 PM Dusty Mabe wrote: > >> >> >> On 8/23/19 6:35 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: >> > Hi, Adam. >> > >> > On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 at 15:41, Adam Samalik wrote: >> > [...] >> >> == Toolbox == >> >> >> >> The 'showme' tool [3] for visualising and inspecting RPM dependencies >> >> now supports weak dependencies and a package list output. >> > >> > I didn't have a chance to tell you this at Flock, but could you rename >> > the binary to something like rpm-showme? Plain showme is very generic >> > and unsuitable for such a specific tool. >> > >> >> I agree. It also means people are less likely to "discover" the tool and >> must be told about it or otherwise find it through indirect searches. >> >> Dusty >> ___ >> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > > -- > > Adam Šamalík > --- > Senior Software Engineer > Red Hat > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: 'showme' RPM dependency visualizer (was: Minimization Objective report)
Yeah, that's a good point. I might rename the repo as well. Thanks for the suggestion! On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 1:15 PM Dusty Mabe wrote: > > > On 8/23/19 6:35 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > > Hi, Adam. > > > > On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 at 15:41, Adam Samalik wrote: > > [...] > >> == Toolbox == > >> > >> The 'showme' tool [3] for visualising and inspecting RPM dependencies > >> now supports weak dependencies and a package list output. > > > > I didn't have a chance to tell you this at Flock, but could you rename > > the binary to something like rpm-showme? Plain showme is very generic > > and unsuitable for such a specific tool. > > > > I agree. It also means people are less likely to "discover" the tool and > must be told about it or otherwise find it through indirect searches. > > Dusty > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: 'showme' RPM dependency visualizer (was: Minimization Objective report)
On 8/23/19 6:35 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > Hi, Adam. > > On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 at 15:41, Adam Samalik wrote: > [...] >> == Toolbox == >> >> The 'showme' tool [3] for visualising and inspecting RPM dependencies >> now supports weak dependencies and a package list output. > > I didn't have a chance to tell you this at Flock, but could you rename > the binary to something like rpm-showme? Plain showme is very generic > and unsuitable for such a specific tool. > I agree. It also means people are less likely to "discover" the tool and must be told about it or otherwise find it through indirect searches. Dusty ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
'showme' RPM dependency visualizer (was: Minimization Objective report)
Hi, Adam. On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 at 15:41, Adam Samalik wrote: [...] > == Toolbox == > > The 'showme' tool [3] for visualising and inspecting RPM dependencies > now supports weak dependencies and a package list output. I didn't have a chance to tell you this at Flock, but could you rename the binary to something like rpm-showme? Plain showme is very generic and unsuitable for such a specific tool. Regards, Dominik -- Fedora https://getfedora.org | RPM Fusion http://rpmfusion.org There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and oppression to develop psychic muscles. -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
This is the Minimization Objective [0] update. == Regular meeting == Team meeting every Wednesday 15:00 GMT (find it in the SIGs calendar [1]). == Discoveries == A new discoveries page [2] created that will contain random useful discoveries. It'll get structured as it fills up. Potential areas to focus on: - removing Systemd dependency from dnf, httpd, and others in order to build smaller container images - removing Perl from the base installation == Toolbox == The 'showme' tool [3] for visualising and inspecting RPM dependencies now supports weak dependencies and a package list output. == How to get involved == See if there is anything interesting to you on action plan [4], or reach out with something you think is useful but is missing there. Open a ticket in the tracker [5] or discuss in #fedora-devel on IRC. Cheers, Adam [0] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [1] Meeting https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/SIGs/ [2] Discoveries https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/discoveries/ [3] The 'showme' tool https://pagure.io/minimization/dependency-visualiser -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Minimization Objective report
Congratulations! You're reading the very first Minimization Objective [1] update. == New Minimization Team == A new team is being formed, having 9 members already! Read the team page [2] for more information, including how to join. Welcome, everyone! == Communication channels == Following are the communication channels preferred to discuss anything Minimization: * real-time discussions on #fedora-devel IRC on FreeNode * longer discussions in issues at pagure/minimization [3] — they support multiple threads/topics (issues), easy to link to and easy to reply to right from the link, anyone within Fedora can be easily pinged * some discussions might also happen here on the devel list * Bugzilla bug to track all actual packaging changes [4] == Regular meeting == A new regular meeting is being put in place [5], likely Wednesday 15:00 GMT on one of the fedora IRC meeting channels. == What's next == We have an action plan [6] indicating four main areas of interest: 1/ Prototyping simple tooling 2/ Ecosystems exploration 3/ Stacks analysis 4/ Content strategy This page will be expanded with more specific actionable items. Please let me know if you have any feedback or questions. Cheers! Adam [1] Objective: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/ [2] Team: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/team/ [3] Pagure issues: https://pagure.io/minimization/issues [4] Bugzilla tracker: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1734342 [5] Meeting: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/1 [6] Action plan: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/action-plan/ -- Adam Šamalík --- Senior Software Engineer Red Hat ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
