Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Sérgio Basto]

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 14:06 +, Sergey Avseyev wrote:
> mypaint

is not retired you can take the onwership 

-- 
Sérgio M. B.

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Sergey Avseyev]

Is it too late to restore maintenance of mypaint? I've just fixed all
issues, and only about to push last patch, but cannot do it unfortunately
anymore.

--
Sergey Avseyev


El lun., 7 ene. 2019 a las 7:59, Miro Hrončok ()
escribió:

> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for
> sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>
> I plan to retire packages that were already announced 3 times next Monday.
>
> Unorphan/unretire packages at https://pagure.io/releng/issues
>
> Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the
> affected
> packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected
> package or
> retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
> package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.
>
>  Package  (co)maintainers Status Change
>
> 
> autotrash frafra, orphan, robyduck 1 weeks
> ago
> bluecove  orphan   5 weeks
> ago
> bouml orphan   2 weeks
> ago
> bouml-doc orphan   2 weeks
> ago
> ecryptfs-simple   orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> fasd  orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> golang-github-go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> AudriusButkevicius-kcp-go
> golang-github-go-sig, orphan   10
> weeks ago
> AudriusButkevicius-pfilter
> golang-github-calmh-luhn  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-ccding-go-stun  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-b go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-fileutil  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-golex go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-internal  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-lex   go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-lexer go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-lldb  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-mathutil  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-qlgo-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-sortutil  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-strutil   go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-cznic-zappy go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-edsrzf-mmap-go  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-klauspost-  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> reedsolomon
> golang-github-remyoudompheng- go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> bigfft
> golang-github-templexxx-cpufeat   go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-templexxx-  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> reedsolomon
> golang-github-templexxx-xor   go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-tjfoc-gmsm  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-xtaci-kcp-gogo-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-xtaci-smux  go-sig, jchaloup, orphan 10
> weeks ago
> golang-github-zillode-notify  go-sig, orphan   10
> weeks ago
> gossiporphan   12
> weeks ago
> hdapsdorphan   6 weeks
> ago
> hoard orphan   26
> weeks ago
> jlibrtp   orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> jmake orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> libgltf   orphan   4 weeks
> ago
> lzma  cicku, fale, mjakubicek, 64
> weeks ago
>orphan
> maven-downloader  orphan   12
> weeks ago
> maven-jsf-plugin  orphan   12
> weeks ago
> maven-jxr akurtakov, orphan12
> weeks ago
> nuvola-app-8tracksorphan   11
> weeks ago
> nuvola-app-deezer orphan   11
> weeks ago
> 

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Fabio Valentini]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 6:11 PM Michael Schwendt  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 23:49:17 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> > Request package ownership via releng issues:
> > https://pagure.io/releng/issues
>
> How?

Click "New Issue", fill out  "package_unorphan" or
"package_unretirement" template, submit ticket.

Fabio

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Michael Schwendt]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 23:49:17 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:

> Request package ownership via releng issues:
> https://pagure.io/releng/issues

How?
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Gwyn Ciesla via devel]

It BuildRequires gcc, which BuildRequires dblatex, which BuildRequires 
python-which. I'm rebundling python-which in dblatex, so that should go away.


-- 
Gwyn Ciesla
she/her/hers
 
in your fear, seek only peace 
in your fear, seek only love
-d. bowie

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:39 AM, Steven A. Falco  
wrote:

> On 9/9/19 6:06 PM, Elliott Sales de Andrade wrote:
> 

> > On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth d...@eurephia.org wrote:
> > 

> > > On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > > 

> > > > The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> > > > are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for 
> > > > sure
> > > > that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper 
> > > > reason:
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
> > > 

> > > [...snip...]
> > > 

> > > > dsommers: python-which
> > > 

> > > This surprises me quite a lot. I have never been a package maintainer for
> > > this package.
> > 

> > It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
> > saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.
> > Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
> > depends on it, and you maintain that.
> 

> I too am apparently affected by python-which. But I'm not sure how to 
> determine why. I maintain kicad and bvi. Neither directly requires 
> python-which, as far as I can see:
> 

> saf# dnf repoquery --requires kicad | grep python
> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:29 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM 
> EDT.
> libpython3.7m.so.1.0
> libpython3.7m.so.1.0()(64bit)
> python(abi) = 3.7
> python3-wxpython4
> saf#
> 

> saf# dnf repoquery --requires bvi | grep python
> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:39 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM 
> EDT.
> saf#
> 

> How do I determine why I am affected?
> 

> Steve (FAS ID stevenfalco)
> 

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Mauricio Tavares]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 9:44 PM Adam Williamson
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2019-09-10 at 02:41 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > > openvswitch  aconole, chrisw, orphan, 0 weeks ago
> > >  tgraf, tredaell
> >
> > This one is a dependency of NetworkManager, so surely it should not go away.
> > (Or is the plan to drop support for it from NM?) So can either one of the
> > existing comaintainers or the NM team please pick this up before some script
> > retires the entire distro? :-)
>
> openQA also requires it, so I need it not to go away. I don't really
> want to maintain it as I'm certainly no kind of SDN expert, but if no-
> one else picks it up I probably will in the end.

  I too am also no SDN expert; in fact, I consider myself a
grasshopper. I also never been a maintainer. However, I am willing to
help in any way I can if someone can teach me the ropes.  Would that
make your life a bit easier?

> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
> http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Steven A. Falco]

Excellent.  Thanks for the help.

Steve

On 9/10/19 9:47 AM, Anne Mulhern wrote:
> Look at the full report:
> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-09-09.txt
> 
> kicad uses asciidoc, which depends on python-which.
> 
> - mulhern
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
>> From: "Steven A. Falco" 
>> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:39:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)
>>
>> On 9/9/19 6:06 PM, Elliott Sales de Andrade wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>>>>> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
>>>>> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for
>>>>> sure
>>>>> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
>>>>> reason:
>>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>>>>
>>>> [...snip...]
>>>>
>>>>> dsommers: python-which
>>>>
>>>> This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
>>>> this package.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
>>> saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.
>>>
>>> Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
>>> depends on it, and you maintain _that_.
>>
>> I too am apparently affected by python-which.  But I'm not sure how to
>> determine why.  I maintain kicad and bvi.  Neither directly requires
>> python-which, as far as I can see:
>>
>> saf# dnf repoquery --requires kicad | grep python
>> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:29 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM
>> EDT.
>> libpython3.7m.so.1.0
>> libpython3.7m.so.1.0()(64bit)
>> python(abi) = 3.7
>> python3-wxpython4
>> saf#
>>
>> saf# dnf repoquery --requires bvi | grep python
>> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:39 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM
>> EDT.
>> saf#
>>
>> How do I determine why I am affected?
>>
>>  Steve  (FAS ID stevenfalco)
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Anne Mulhern]

Look at the full report:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-09-09.txt

kicad uses asciidoc, which depends on python-which.

- mulhern



- Original Message -
> From: "Steven A. Falco" 
> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:39:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)
> 
> On 9/9/19 6:06 PM, Elliott Sales de Andrade wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >>> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> >>> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for
> >>> sure
> >>> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
> >>> reason:
> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
> >>
> >> [...snip...]
> >>
> >>> dsommers: python-which
> >>
> >> This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
> >> this package.
> >>
> > 
> > It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
> > saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.
> > 
> > Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
> > depends on it, and you maintain _that_.
> 
> I too am apparently affected by python-which.  But I'm not sure how to
> determine why.  I maintain kicad and bvi.  Neither directly requires
> python-which, as far as I can see:
> 
> saf# dnf repoquery --requires kicad | grep python
> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:29 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM
> EDT.
> libpython3.7m.so.1.0
> libpython3.7m.so.1.0()(64bit)
> python(abi) = 3.7
> python3-wxpython4
> saf#
> 
> saf# dnf repoquery --requires bvi | grep python
> Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:39 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM
> EDT.
> saf#
> 
> How do I determine why I am affected?
> 
>   Steve  (FAS ID stevenfalco)
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Steven A. Falco]

On 9/9/19 6:06 PM, Elliott Sales de Andrade wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth  wrote:
>>
>> On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>>> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
>>> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
>>> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>>
>> [...snip...]
>>
>>> dsommers: python-which
>>
>> This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
>> this package.
>>
> 
> It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
> saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.
> 
> Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
> depends on it, and you maintain _that_.

I too am apparently affected by python-which.  But I'm not sure how to 
determine why.  I maintain kicad and bvi.  Neither directly requires 
python-which, as far as I can see:

saf# dnf repoquery --requires kicad | grep python
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:29 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM EDT.
libpython3.7m.so.1.0
libpython3.7m.so.1.0()(64bit)
python(abi) = 3.7
python3-wxpython4
saf#

saf# dnf repoquery --requires bvi | grep python
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:39 ago on Tue 10 Sep 2019 09:33:45 AM EDT.
saf#

How do I determine why I am affected?

Steve  (FAS ID stevenfalco)
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 at 06:47, Raphael Groner wrote:
> > My package requires libxslt.
> 
> You're obviously not alone with this issue. The better question is
> *why* the package as a commonly used library got orphaned, propably
> silently without warning (at least I can not find any announcement,
> officially).

A number of packages depend on libxslt only for the xsltproc binary.
One might try using another XSLT processor, for example xalan-c.

Regards,
Dominik
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oppression to develop psychic muscles.
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libxslt (was: Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week))

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 07:43:49AM +0200, Julian Sikorski wrote:
> W dniu 10.09.2019 o 06:47, Raphael Groner pisze:
> > Hi,
> > 
> >> My package requires libxslt.
> > 
> > You're obviously not alone with this issue. The better question is *why* 
> > the package as a commonly used library got orphaned, propably silently 
> > without warning (at least I can not find any announcement, officially).
> > 
> > Regards
> > Raphael
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1738016

OK I believe I have sorted this out, at least the best it can be for
now.  See:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1738016#c8
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1750660

Rich.

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Julian Sikorski]

W dniu 10.09.2019 o 06:47, Raphael Groner pisze:
> Hi,
> 
>> My package requires libxslt.
> 
> You're obviously not alone with this issue. The better question is *why* the 
> package as a commonly used library got orphaned, propably silently without 
> warning (at least I can not find any announcement, officially).
> 
> Regards
> Raphael

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1738016

Best regards,
Julian

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Raphael Groner]

Hi,

> My package requires libxslt.

You're obviously not alone with this issue. The better question is *why* the 
package as a commonly used library got orphaned, propably silently without 
warning (at least I can not find any announcement, officially).

Regards
Raphael
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Tony Breeds]

On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 11:49:17PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
> 
> Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
> packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package 
> or
> retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
> package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.
> 
> Request package ownership via releng issues:
> https://pagure.io/releng/issues
> 
> Full report available at:
> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-09-09.txt
> grep it for your FAS username and follow the dependency chain.
> 
> Package  (co)maintainers   Status 
> Change
> 



> libxslt   orphan, veillard 0 weeks ago

My package requires libxslt.

My understanding is that, this changed status '0 weeks ago' which means
I have ~ 6 weeks to find a solution ... other than maintaining xslt ;P

Is that right?  Just trying to work out how much panic to feel ;P

Tony.


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Gwyn Ciesla via devel]

I filed an issue offering to take this and a few others.


Sent from ProtonMail mobile



\ Original Message 
On Sep 9, 2019, 7:31 PM, < mcatanz...@gnome.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:49 PM, Miro Hrončok 
> <[mhron...@redhat.com][mhroncok_redhat.com]>
> wrote:
> > libxslt orphan, veillard 0
> > weeks ago
>
> Looks pretty important, any takers?
>
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2019-09-10 at 02:41 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > openvswitch  aconole, chrisw, orphan, 0 weeks ago
> >  tgraf, tredaell
> 
> This one is a dependency of NetworkManager, so surely it should not go away. 
> (Or is the plan to drop support for it from NM?) So can either one of the 
> existing comaintainers or the NM team please pick this up before some script 
> retires the entire distro? :-)

openQA also requires it, so I need it not to go away. I don't really
want to maintain it as I'm certainly no kind of SDN expert, but if no-
one else picks it up I probably will in the end.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Kevin Kofler]

Miro Hrončok wrote:
> openvswitch  aconole, chrisw, orphan, 0 weeks ago
>  tgraf, tredaell

This one is a dependency of NetworkManager, so surely it should not go away. 
(Or is the plan to drop support for it from NM?) So can either one of the 
existing comaintainers or the NM team please pick this up before some script 
retires the entire distro? :-)

Kevin Kofler
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[mcatanzaro]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:49 PM, Miro Hrončok  
wrote:
libxslt   orphan, veillard 0 
weeks ago


Looks pretty important, any takers?

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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Dan Čermák]

Elliott Sales de Andrade  writes:

> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth  wrote:
>>
>> On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>> > The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
>> > are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for 
>> > sure
>> > that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
>> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>>
>> [...snip...]
>>
>> > dsommers: python-which
>>
>> This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
>> this package.
>>
>
> It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
> saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.
>
> Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
> depends on it, and you maintain _that_.

As Jason L Tibbitts III noted on IRC, the "culprit" here is dblatex,
which depends on python2-which and since gcc depends on dblatex, that
drags in nearly everything.

There is a pretty simple short term fix for this though: dblatex
upstream has been bundling python-which for over a decade, which is
being reverted in the Fedora package. Since python-which is dead
upstream, I see it as the lesser evil to not patch the bundling. Also,
dblatex will probably go away anyway, as was noted previously on this
list (it does not appear to be dead though, there has been a bugfix
release less than an hour ago).


Cheers,

Dan


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 9/9/19 4:49 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote:

libxslt orphan, veillard 0 weeks ago


This is a big one...

@Daniel, can you take it over as primary maintainer?

Thanks,
Michael
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[Elliott Sales de Andrade]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 18:02, David Sommerseth  wrote:
>
> On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> > are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
> > that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>
> [...snip...]
>
> > dsommers: python-which
>
> This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
> this package.
>

It's not saying you're a package maintainer for this package. It's
saying you'll be affected by its orphaning.

Search for python-which and you'll see it's because python-ethtool
depends on it, and you maintain _that_.

>
> --
> kind regards,
>
> David Sommerseth

-- 
Elliott
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (~400 during this week)

[David Sommerseth]

On 09/09/2019 23:49, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

[...snip...]

> dsommers: python-which

This surprises me quite a lot.  I have never been a package maintainer for
this package.


-- 
kind regards,

David Sommerseth
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 9:06 PM Stephen John Smoogen 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 13:22, Ralf Corsepius  wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/19 11:01 AM, Stelian Iancu wrote:
>> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:35 AM Emmanuel Seyman 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> * Sérgio Basto [19/03/2019 00:03] :
>> >>>
>> >>> I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages
>> >>
>> >> Mikolaj is the last actif member of the Java SIG.
>>
>> And who is guilty for this?
>>
>
Looking for guilty person/people is always the wrong thing to do! And it's
never people that do work - no matter how less it is!


>>
> One of the reasons that there was a Java SIG long ago was that Java
> packaging was an ugly sewage pile of software. Java had its own way of
> doing things which didn't match how Fedora wanted things packaged.. and it
> took a LOT of work to unbundle, unhook, and clean up. Over time, the number
> of people who a) want to work on that and b) get the constant 'oooh yuck
> its java.. why would anyone work on that?' took its toll and people left.
>

I would dare to say that a number of us (Java SIG creators) moved to work
upstream to get to the state where Java projects are no longer these
impossible to build not even dare to package properly things . Additionally
Flatpak seems way better for any GUI app compared to creating RPMs which
additionally reduces the work spent on RPM side. No mattter whether people
like or not but containerization eats the RPM workforce - both for server
and workstation.



>
> The same thing is happening in most other SIG's.. it is thankless work
> especially when people are always good about telling how it should have
> been done instead. The number of people active in them gets smaller over
> time with everyone else thinking 'oh I don't need to worry about it there
> is a SIG to take care of this.. when it turns out that it really is just 1
> person still showing up.'
>
>
>
>> > I think the bigger question here is what is going to happen with the
>> Java SIG?
>> >
>> > In general, what is the situation of Java in Fedora?
>> I regret having to say this, but I think it's inevitable: Due to the
>> Java-"modularization" activities, Java in Fedora is going to be a matter
>> of the past, soon.
>>
>>
> Modularization is more like the dust particle hitting hyper saturated
> solution. You are getting large amounts of participate falling out.. but
> the 'problem' was there before just hidden in plain site.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nJybaKOP0
>
>
>
>> Ralf
>> ___
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>
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen.
>
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-- 
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Red Hat Eclipse Team
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 13:22, Ralf Corsepius  wrote:

> On 3/19/19 11:01 AM, Stelian Iancu wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:35 AM Emmanuel Seyman 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> * Sérgio Basto [19/03/2019 00:03] :
> >>>
> >>> I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages
> >>
> >> Mikolaj is the last actif member of the Java SIG.
>
> And who is guilty for this?
>
>
One of the reasons that there was a Java SIG long ago was that Java
packaging was an ugly sewage pile of software. Java had its own way of
doing things which didn't match how Fedora wanted things packaged.. and it
took a LOT of work to unbundle, unhook, and clean up. Over time, the number
of people who a) want to work on that and b) get the constant 'oooh yuck
its java.. why would anyone work on that?' took its toll and people left.

The same thing is happening in most other SIG's.. it is thankless work
especially when people are always good about telling how it should have
been done instead. The number of people active in them gets smaller over
time with everyone else thinking 'oh I don't need to worry about it there
is a SIG to take care of this.. when it turns out that it really is just 1
person still showing up.'



> > I think the bigger question here is what is going to happen with the
> Java SIG?
> >
> > In general, what is the situation of Java in Fedora?
> I regret having to say this, but I think it's inevitable: Due to the
> Java-"modularization" activities, Java in Fedora is going to be a matter
> of the past, soon.
>
>
Modularization is more like the dust particle hitting hyper saturated
solution. You are getting large amounts of participate falling out.. but
the 'problem' was there before just hidden in plain site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nJybaKOP0



> Ralf
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 3/19/19 11:01 AM, Stelian Iancu wrote:

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:35 AM Emmanuel Seyman  wrote:


* Sérgio Basto [19/03/2019 00:03] :


I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages


Mikolaj is the last actif member of the Java SIG.


And who is guilty for this?


I think the bigger question here is what is going to happen with the Java SIG?

In general, what is the situation of Java in Fedora?
I regret having to say this, but I think it's inevitable: Due to the 
Java-"modularization" activities, Java in Fedora is going to be a matter 
of the past, soon.


Ralf
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Raphael Groner]

>  Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't quite get this. Could you please rephrase?
> The script uses source repos to fetch build-dependencies.

Thanks. That answers my question.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Fabio Valentini]

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 19:20 Miro Hrončok  wrote:

> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for
> sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>
> Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the
> affected
> packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected
> package or
> retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
> package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.
>
> Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-08.txt


Hi Miro!

Grepping for our usernames and stewardship-sig, it looks like we got to the
bottom of things with the last round of unretired packages.

I've kicked off the generation of another Stewardship SIG report with the
latest package list and the 20190408.n.0 rawhide compose as sources - I
will let it run overnight.

Fabio


>
> Request package ownership via releng ticket:
> https://pagure.io/releng/issues
>
> Packages retired today are still listed in this report:
>
>  SimplyHTML
>  devilspie
>  iris
>  keybinder
>  libkexif
>  maven-toolchains-plugin
>  mingw-webkitgtk
>  mingw-webkitgtk3
>  python-urwid
>  qcodeedit
>  rubygem-fakeweb
>  sketch
>  superkaramba
>  wicd
>
>  Package  (co)maintainers   Status
> Change
>
> 
> PyMca orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> Ray   orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks
> ago
> ahkab orphan   0 weeks
> ago
> arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan0 weeks
> ago
> cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   5 weeks
> ago
> cwiid orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> devilspie orphan   7 weeks
> ago
> gnue-common   orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,7 weeks
> ago
>slankes
> jam-control   orphan   1 weeks
> ago
> keybinder ohaessler, orphan7 weeks
> ago
> ktechlab  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks
> ago
> libkexif  orphan, rdieter  7 weeks
> ago
> lightdm-gtk   cwickert, dbenoit, orphan,   0 weeks
> ago
>rdieter
> linsmith  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks
> ago
> maven-toolchains-plugin   mizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks
> ago
> mingw-webkitgtk   epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks
> ago
> mingw-webkitgtk3  epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-after  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-alter  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-ansi-font  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-ansidiff   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-archiver   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-archiver-utils nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-ast-traverse   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-ast-types  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-astral nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-astral-angular-annotatenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-astral-passnodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-async-cachenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-async-each nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-aws-sign2  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-base64-js  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-basic-auth-parser  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-bl nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-bluebird   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-breakable  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks
> ago
> nodejs-camel-case nodejs-sig, 

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

On 09. 04. 19 0:03, Raphael Groner wrote:

Hopefully, it's sufficient to rebuild in rawhide only.


It is.


No idea why the original try to unbundle failed and your script cares about 
other as just looking into really generated dependencies of binary rpm instead 
of analysis done in spec file.


Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't quite get this. Could you please rephrase?

The script uses source repos to fetch build-dependencies.

--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Raphael Groner]

Hi Miro,

volumeicon should be fixed in rawhide.

It turns out that the BuildRequires line wasn't needed at all in 
volumeicon.spec because upstream bundles partly its own copy of the needed 
functions with code obviously copied from keybinder. Therefore I dropped this 
BR and added a new Provides line with a comment as well.

Hopefully, it's sufficient to rebuild in rawhide only. No idea why the original 
try to unbundle failed and your script cares about other as just looking into 
really generated dependencies of binary rpm instead of analysis done in spec 
file.

Regards, Raphael
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Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-08.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Packages retired today are still listed in this report:

SimplyHTML
devilspie
iris
keybinder
libkexif
maven-toolchains-plugin
mingw-webkitgtk
mingw-webkitgtk3
python-urwid
qcodeedit
rubygem-fakeweb
sketch
superkaramba
wicd

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

PyMca orphan   1 weeks ago
Ray   orphan   1 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks ago
ahkab orphan   0 weeks ago
arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan0 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   5 weeks ago
cwiid orphan   1 weeks ago
devilspie orphan   7 weeks ago
gnue-common   orphan   1 weeks ago
iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,7 weeks ago
  slankes
jam-control   orphan   1 weeks ago
keybinder ohaessler, orphan7 weeks ago
ktechlab  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks ago
libkexif  orphan, rdieter  7 weeks ago
lightdm-gtk   cwickert, dbenoit, orphan,   0 weeks ago
  rdieter
linsmith  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks ago
maven-toolchains-plugin   mizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks ago
mingw-webkitgtk   epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks ago
mingw-webkitgtk3  epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks ago
nodejs-after  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-alter  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ansi-font  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ansidiff   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-archiver   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-archiver-utils nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ast-traverse   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ast-types  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral-angular-annotatenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral-passnodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-async-cachenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-async-each nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-aws-sign2  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-base64-js  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-basic-auth-parser  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-bl nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-bluebird   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-breakable  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-camel-case nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-caniuse-db nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-change-casenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clean-css  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clone  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clsnodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-co nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-commoner   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-compress-commons   nodejs-sig, 

Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-08.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Packages retired today are still listed in this report:

SimplyHTML
devilspie
iris
keybinder
libkexif
maven-toolchains-plugin
mingw-webkitgtk
mingw-webkitgtk3
python-urwid
qcodeedit
rubygem-fakeweb
sketch
superkaramba
wicd

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

PyMca orphan   1 weeks ago
Ray   orphan   1 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks ago
ahkab orphan   0 weeks ago
arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan0 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   5 weeks ago
cwiid orphan   1 weeks ago
devilspie orphan   7 weeks ago
gnue-common   orphan   1 weeks ago
iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,7 weeks ago
  slankes
jam-control   orphan   1 weeks ago
keybinder ohaessler, orphan7 weeks ago
ktechlab  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks ago
libkexif  orphan, rdieter  7 weeks ago
lightdm-gtk   cwickert, dbenoit, orphan,   0 weeks ago
  rdieter
linsmith  chitlesh, orphan 0 weeks ago
maven-toolchains-plugin   mizdebsk, orphan 8 weeks ago
mingw-webkitgtk   epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks ago
mingw-webkitgtk3  epienbro, orphan, pfor   7 weeks ago
nodejs-after  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-alter  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ansi-font  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ansidiff   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-archiver   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-archiver-utils nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ast-traverse   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-ast-types  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral-angular-annotatenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-astral-passnodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-async-cachenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-async-each nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-aws-sign2  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-base64-js  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-basic-auth-parser  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-bl nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-bluebird   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-breakable  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-camel-case nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-caniuse-db nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-change-casenodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clean-css  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clone  nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-clsnodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-co nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-commoner   nodejs-sig, orphan   3 weeks ago
nodejs-compress-commons   nodejs-sig, 

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

On 02. 04. 19 8:41, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Miro,
>
> Could you please also send a list of retired packages after you pull the
> trigger?

The information was included in my e-mail (I guess a bit hidden):

>> Packages already retired today:
>>SimplyHTML aether-connector-okhttp antlr3 apache-commons-el
>>apache-james-project apache-mime4j args4j codemodel decentxml
>>geronimo-jta glassfish-dtd-parser glassfish-fastinfoset
>>glassfish-jaxb glassfish-jsp istack-commons jackson
>> java-service-wrapper
>>jchardet jdepend jmapviewer jortho jsr-311 kohsuke-pom maven-archetype
>>maven-gpg-plugin maven-idea-plugin maven-indexer maven-osgi
>>maven-reporting-exec maven-repository-builder maven-shared-jar
>>maven-site-plugin maven-stapler-plugin maven-toolchains-plugin
>>mnemonicsetter okio plexus-digest plexus-resources
>>rubygem-capybara_minitest_spec rubygem-rails-observers stax2-api
>>stringtemplate4 takari-archiver takari-filemanager
>>takari-incrementalbuild takari-lifecycle takari-plugin-testing
>>takari-pom takari-tycho-support txw2 xml-maven-plugin xsom

See also this ticket that requests several packages (I haven't retired them):

https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8253

See also https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8255 (plexus-resources, args4j)

--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Vít Ondruch]

Miro,

Could you please also send a list of retired packages after you pull the
trigger?

Thx


Vít


Dne 01. 04. 19 v 23:17 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):
> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know
> for sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
> reason:
>    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>
> Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the
> affected
> packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected
> package or
> retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise
> your
> package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.
>
> Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
>    https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-01.txt
>
> Request package ownership via releng ticket:
> https://pagure.io/releng/issues
>
>     Package  (co)maintainers  
> Status Change
> 
>
> PyMca orphan   0
> weeks ago
> Ray   orphan   0
> weeks ago
> SimplyHTML    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> antlr3    dchen, lef, mizdebsk,    7
> weeks ago
>   mjakubicek, orphan, walters
> apache-commons-csv    lef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 7
> weeks ago
> apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   7
> weeks ago
>   spike
> apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   7
> weeks ago
>   orphan, spike
> apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan    0
> weeks ago
> args4j    jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   7
> weeks ago
> cmusphinx3    jjames, orphan   4
> weeks ago
> codemodel gil, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> cwiid orphan   0
> weeks ago
> decentxml mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> devilspie orphan   6
> weeks ago
> geronimo-jms  mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> geronimo-jta  mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> glassfish-dtd-parser  gil, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> glassfish-fastinfoset gil, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> glassfish-jaxb    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> glassfish-jsp mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> gnue-common   orphan   0
> weeks ago
> icu4j akurtakov, fnasser, kdaniel, 7
> weeks ago
>   lef, mizdebsk, orphan
> iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,    6
> weeks ago
>   slankes
> istack-commons    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jackson   gil, mizdebsk, orphan    7
> weeks ago
> jam-control   orphan   0
> weeks ago
> java-service-wrapper  arg, gil, lef, mizdebsk, 7
> weeks ago
>   orphan
> jchardet  mizdebsk, orion, orphan  7
> weeks ago
> jdepend   goldmann, jcapik, mizdebsk,  7
> weeks ago
>   orphan
> jeromq    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jettison  davidx, mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jetty-parent  mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jetty-version-maven-plugin    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jetty8    eclipse-sig, mizdebsk, orphan,   7
> weeks ago
>   pmackinn
> jmapviewer    mizdebsk, orphan 7
> weeks ago
> jortho    mizdebsk, orphan  

Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-01.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

PyMca orphan   0 weeks ago
Ray   orphan   0 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,7 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 7 weeks ago
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   7 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   7 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan0 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   7 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   4 weeks ago
codemodel gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
cwiid orphan   0 weeks ago
decentxml mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
devilspie orphan   6 weeks ago
geronimo-jms  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
geronimo-jta  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
glassfish-dtd-parser  gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
glassfish-fastinfoset gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
glassfish-jaxbmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
glassfish-jsp mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
gnue-common   orphan   0 weeks ago
icu4j akurtakov, fnasser, kdaniel, 7 weeks ago
  lef, mizdebsk, orphan
iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,6 weeks ago
  slankes
istack-commonsmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jackson   gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
jam-control   orphan   0 weeks ago
java-service-wrapper  arg, gil, lef, mizdebsk, 7 weeks ago
  orphan
jchardet  mizdebsk, orion, orphan  7 weeks ago
jdepend   goldmann, jcapik, mizdebsk,  7 weeks ago
  orphan
jeromqmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jettison  davidx, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty-parent  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty-version-maven-pluginmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty8eclipse-sig, mizdebsk, orphan,   7 weeks ago
  pmackinn
jmapviewermizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jorthomizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jsr-311   gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
jvnet-parent  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
keybinder ohaessler, orphan6 weeks ago
kohsuke-pom   lef, mizdebsk, msrb, orphan  7 weeks ago
libkexif  

Orphaned packages to be retired

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-04-01.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

PyMca orphan   0 weeks ago
Ray   orphan   0 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,7 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 7 weeks ago
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   7 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   7 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
arc-theme besser82, dbenoit, orphan0 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   7 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   4 weeks ago
codemodel gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
cwiid orphan   0 weeks ago
decentxml mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
devilspie orphan   6 weeks ago
geronimo-jms  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
geronimo-jta  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
glassfish-dtd-parser  gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
glassfish-fastinfoset gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
glassfish-jaxbmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
glassfish-jsp mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
gnue-common   orphan   0 weeks ago
icu4j akurtakov, fnasser, kdaniel, 7 weeks ago
  lef, mizdebsk, orphan
iris  kde-sig, orphan, rdieter,6 weeks ago
  slankes
istack-commonsmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jackson   gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
jam-control   orphan   0 weeks ago
java-service-wrapper  arg, gil, lef, mizdebsk, 7 weeks ago
  orphan
jchardet  mizdebsk, orion, orphan  7 weeks ago
jdepend   goldmann, jcapik, mizdebsk,  7 weeks ago
  orphan
jeromqmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jettison  davidx, mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty-parent  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty-version-maven-pluginmizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jetty8eclipse-sig, mizdebsk, orphan,   7 weeks ago
  pmackinn
jmapviewermizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jorthomizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
jsr-311   gil, mizdebsk, orphan7 weeks ago
jvnet-parent  mizdebsk, orphan 7 weeks ago
keybinder ohaessler, orphan6 weeks ago
kohsuke-pom   lef, mizdebsk, msrb, orphan  7 weeks ago
libkexif  

Re: ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Richard Shaw]

I considered taking xcdroast but it needs to be patched to work with wodim
because it's only designed to be used with real cdrecord... Probably best
just to retire it. There are several other lightweight graphical CD/DVD
writer tools.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Sérgio Basto]

On Wed, 2019-03-27 at 18:48 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> On 27. 03. 19 18:18, Sérgio Basto wrote:
> > On Tue, 2019-03-26 at 11:08 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > > sergiomb: nodejs-array-union
> > 
> > why today ;) I'm associated to nodejs-array-union , seems to me
> > thescript have a bug ...
> 
> What bug? Read the full report and grep your FAS name, follow the
> crumbs:

ah ok , thanks for the info 



> Depending on: nodejs-array-union (54)
> 
>   nodejs-multimatch (maintained by: jamielinux, nodejs-sig,
> patches)
>   nodejs-multimatch-2.1.0-7.fc30.noarch requires
> npm(array-union) = 1.0.1
>   nodejs-multimatch-2.1.0-7.fc30.src requires npm(array-
> union) = 1.0.1
> 
>   nodejs-load-grunt-tasks (maintained by: jamielinux, nodejs-sig, 
> patches)
>   nodejs-load-grunt-tasks-3.5.0-7.fc30.noarch requires
> npm(multimatch) = 2.1.0
>   nodejs-load-grunt-tasks-3.5.0-7.fc30.src requires
> npm(multimatch) = 2.1.0
> 
>   js-jquery (maintained by: ctubbsii, jamielinux, nodejs-sig,
> patches)
>   js-jquery-3.3.1-2.fc30.src requires npm(load-grunt-
> tasks) = 3.5.0
> 
>   xpra (maintained by: jgu, sagitter, sergiomb)
>   xpra-2.4.3-3.fc30.i686 requires js-jquery = 3.3.1-
> 2.fc30
> 
> 
> -- 
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: +420777974800
> IRC: mhroncok
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.
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Re: ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Miro Hrončok]

On 27. 03. 19 18:18, Sérgio Basto wrote:

On Tue, 2019-03-26 at 11:08 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:

sergiomb: nodejs-array-union


why today ;) I'm associated to nodejs-array-union , seems to me thescript have 
a bug ...


What bug? Read the full report and grep your FAS name, follow the crumbs:

Depending on: nodejs-array-union (54)

nodejs-multimatch (maintained by: jamielinux, nodejs-sig, patches)
nodejs-multimatch-2.1.0-7.fc30.noarch requires npm(array-union) 
= 1.0.1
nodejs-multimatch-2.1.0-7.fc30.src requires npm(array-union) = 
1.0.1

nodejs-load-grunt-tasks (maintained by: jamielinux, nodejs-sig, patches)
nodejs-load-grunt-tasks-3.5.0-7.fc30.noarch requires 
npm(multimatch) = 2.1.0
nodejs-load-grunt-tasks-3.5.0-7.fc30.src requires 
npm(multimatch) = 2.1.0

js-jquery (maintained by: ctubbsii, jamielinux, nodejs-sig, patches)
js-jquery-3.3.1-2.fc30.src requires npm(load-grunt-tasks) = 
3.5.0

xpra (maintained by: jgu, sagitter, sergiomb)
xpra-2.4.3-3.fc30.i686 requires js-jquery = 3.3.1-2.fc30


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--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Sérgio Basto]

On Tue, 2019-03-26 at 11:08 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> sergiomb: nodejs-array-union

why today ;) I'm associated to nodejs-array-union , seems to me thescript have 
a bug ... 

Thanks, 
-- 
Sérgio M. B.
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ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-25.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Join the Stewardship SIG and request important packages if you want to help.
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Stewardship


Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   7 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,6 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   6 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,6 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   7 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   6 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   6 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 7 weeks ago
clang6.0  orphan, tstellar 7 weeks ago
cmusphinx3  

ACTION NEEDED: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 1 week)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
   https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-25.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Join the Stewardship SIG and request important packages if you want to help.
   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Stewardship


Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   7 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,6 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   6 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   6 weeks ago
  spike
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,6 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   7 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan6 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   6 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 6 weeks ago
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   6 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 7 weeks ago
clang6.0  orphan, tstellar 7 weeks ago
cmusphinx3  

Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Stelian Iancu]

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:35 AM Emmanuel Seyman  wrote:
>
> * Sérgio Basto [19/03/2019 00:03] :
> >
> > I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages
>
> Mikolaj is the last actif member of the Java SIG.
>

I think the bigger question here is what is going to happen with the Java SIG?

In general, what is the situation of Java in Fedora?
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Sérgio Basto [19/03/2019 00:03] :
>
> I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages

Mikolaj is the last actif member of the Java SIG.

Emmanuel
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Sérgio Basto]

On Mon, 2019-03-18 at 19:06 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:45:49 +, you wrote:
> 
> > 
> > After thinking , my suggestion is do not retire any java package.
> > 
> > These package should be take by java sig . 
> 
> That's nice, who exactly is this Java sig you have kindly decided
> should take on this significant undertaking?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Java

> My (limited) understanding is that it is the people currently
> involved
> with Java in Fedora that are retiring all these packages so I don't
> think trying to force them back onto those people is going to work.


I though it was just one person which decide orphan his 259 packages
[1]



[1]

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/ITDMQ7UACH4CL6754IMOYQ45QOBVPOX6/



-- 
Sérgio M. B.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

On 18. 03. 19 22:58, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

The actual effect of this is that I'm going to disable Java bindings
for all the affected packages.  Java loses, Fedora loses.


Everybody looses :(

--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: [Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Gerald Henriksen]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:45:49 +, you wrote:

>
>After thinking , my suggestion is do not retire any java package.
>
>These package should be take by java sig . 

That's nice, who exactly is this Java sig you have kindly decided
should take on this significant undertaking?

My (limited) understanding is that it is the people currently involved
with Java in Fedora that are retiring all these packages so I don't
think trying to force them back onto those people is going to work.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:34:23AM +0100, Jakub Jelen wrote:
> On Fri, 2019-03-15 at 19:36 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 23:48:49 +0100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > * Richard W.M. Jones [15/03/2019 20:23] :
> > > > Is Java being dropped from the distro?
> > > 
> > > Yes, that's what we were warned about months ago.
> > 
> > Don't think so.
> > 
> > Nothing has been said about dropping Java, and if anything the
> > OpenJDK
> > packagers have been more active with having multiple versions of Java
> > now being necessary.
> > 
> > However a bunch of Java packages are being retired, and those
> > packages
> > are required for a bunch of other packages.
> 
> No. The java is not dropped from distro, but moved from normal release
> cycle to the modular release for better packaging experience and so on.
> Yes, the side effect of the moving is that the rawhide branch is
> orphaned and will be retired unless somebody else will maintain it. And
> yes, this will bring with it many other packages that depend on that,
> because there is no way to build them against the java packages in the
> modules (I did not even managed to find a way how to build my package
> as a module against this java-packages module so I gave up again after
> few more tries last week).

The actual effect of this is that I'm going to disable Java bindings
for all the affected packages.  Java loses, Fedora loses.

Rich.

> For the record, there is a fesco ticket discussing the delay of the
> retiring, hopefully before we will have a way to build these packages
> again:
> 
> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2104
> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> Jakub Jelen
> Software Engineer
> Security Technologies
> Red Hat, Inc.
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[Fwd: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)]

[Sérgio Basto]

After thinking , my suggestion is do not retire any java package.

These package should be take by java sig . 


 Forwarded Message 
From: Miro Hrončok 
Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora <
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org, Development discussions
related to Fedora 
Subject: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 12:55:11 +0100

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for
sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the
affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected
package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise
your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-18.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: 
https://pagure.io/releng/issues

 Package  (co)maintainers   Sta
tus Change
===
=
OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   6
weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,5
weeks ago
   mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 5
weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   5
weeks ago
   orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5
weeks ago
   spike
apache-commons-netmizdebsk, orphan, spike  5
weeks ago
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,5
weeks ago
   orphan
blobbyorphan   6
weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan5
weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 5
weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   5
weeks ago

Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-18.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   6 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,5 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   5 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-netmizdebsk, orphan, spike  5 weeks ago
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,5 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   6 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   5 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   5 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 6 weeks ago
clang6.0  orphan, tstellar 6 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   2 weeks ago

Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 2 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-18.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   6 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,5 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   5 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   5 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-netmizdebsk, orphan, spike  5 weeks ago
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,5 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   6 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan5 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   5 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 5 weeks ago
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   5 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 6 weeks ago
clang6.0  orphan, tstellar 6 weeks ago
cmusphinx3jjames, orphan   2 weeks ago

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 05:35, Jakub Jelen  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2019-03-15 at 19:36 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 23:48:49 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> > > * Richard W.M. Jones [15/03/2019 20:23] :
> > > > Is Java being dropped from the distro?
> > >
> > > Yes, that's what we were warned about months ago.
> >
> > Don't think so.
> >
> > Nothing has been said about dropping Java, and if anything the
> > OpenJDK
> > packagers have been more active with having multiple versions of Java
> > now being necessary.
> >
> > However a bunch of Java packages are being retired, and those
> > packages
> > are required for a bunch of other packages.
>
> No. The java is not dropped from distro, but moved from normal release
> cycle to the modular release for better packaging experience and so on.
> Yes, the side effect of the moving is that the rawhide branch is
> orphaned and will be retired unless somebody else will maintain it. And
> yes, this will bring with it many other packages that depend on that,
> because there is no way to build them against the java packages in the
> modules (I did not even managed to find a way how to build my package
> as a module against this java-packages module so I gave up again after
> few more tries last week).
>

To me this all looks like a game of Othello where one side of the
board is white, but black keeps laying down pieces and changing large
areas to their colour. [Or in other board games where strategic moves
of packages means everything else has to swap over to remain viable.]
Even with 'ursa major' to slow it down, it is still an 'inevitability'
that large parts of the distribution will fall into modularity space
in the next couple of releases.. if only because people will start
making '1 package' modules of whatever they are maintaining so they
can keep their dependencies.


> For the record, there is a fesco ticket discussing the delay of the
> retiring, hopefully before we will have a way to build these packages
> again:
>
> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2104
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jakub Jelen
> Software Engineer
> Security Technologies
> Red Hat, Inc.
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Jakub Jelen]

On Fri, 2019-03-15 at 19:36 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 23:48:49 +0100, you wrote:
> 
> > * Richard W.M. Jones [15/03/2019 20:23] :
> > > Is Java being dropped from the distro?
> > 
> > Yes, that's what we were warned about months ago.
> 
> Don't think so.
> 
> Nothing has been said about dropping Java, and if anything the
> OpenJDK
> packagers have been more active with having multiple versions of Java
> now being necessary.
> 
> However a bunch of Java packages are being retired, and those
> packages
> are required for a bunch of other packages.

No. The java is not dropped from distro, but moved from normal release
cycle to the modular release for better packaging experience and so on.
Yes, the side effect of the moving is that the rawhide branch is
orphaned and will be retired unless somebody else will maintain it. And
yes, this will bring with it many other packages that depend on that,
because there is no way to build them against the java packages in the
modules (I did not even managed to find a way how to build my package
as a module against this java-packages module so I gave up again after
few more tries last week).

For the record, there is a fesco ticket discussing the delay of the
retiring, hopefully before we will have a way to build these packages
again:

https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2104

Regards,
-- 
Jakub Jelen
Software Engineer
Security Technologies
Red Hat, Inc.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Gerald Henriksen]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 23:48:49 +0100, you wrote:

>* Richard W.M. Jones [15/03/2019 20:23] :

>> Is Java being dropped from the distro?
>
>Yes, that's what we were warned about months ago.

Don't think so.

Nothing has been said about dropping Java, and if anything the OpenJDK
packagers have been more active with having multiple versions of Java
now being necessary.

However a bunch of Java packages are being retired, and those packages
are required for a bunch of other packages.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Richard W.M. Jones [15/03/2019 20:23] :
>
> These are very important packages.  What do we have to do here?

I'm going to repeat this until it sinks in...

If you (this is the generic you, not you specifically) want these
packages to be in the distribution, you need to step up and ask for
maintainership of said packages or incite people who are interested
in maintaining Java packages to do so.

> Is Java being dropped from the distro?

Yes, that's what we were warned about months ago.

Emmanuel
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:40:00PM -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:38:47AM +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >> rjones: apache-ivy, maven-jar-plugin, maven-javadoc-plugin, gradle,
> >> xmvn, plexus-utils
> > 
> > I'm unclear what if anything I could do (apart from maintaining loads
> > of Java packages which isn't going to happen).  Is the email saying
> > that some package of mine depends on these?  And if so which one?
> 
> The list of the expanded deps was quite large, so Miro
> included a link to it in his message:
> 
> >> Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
> >> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt

I couldn't find this by grepping my username, but thanks
for the link.

> $ grep rjones[^:] /tmp/orphans-2019-03-11.txt | sort -u
> erlang (maintained by: gemi, jeckersb, ndim, peter, rjones, skottler)
> libguestfs (maintained by: mdbooth, ptoscano, rjones)
> qemu (maintained by: amitshah, berrange, bonzini, crobinso, dwmw2, 
> ehabkost, jforbes, lkundrak, quintela, rjones, virtmaint-sig)

These are very important packages.  What do we have to do here?
Is Java being dropped from the distro?

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines.  Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages.  http://libguestfs.org
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Todd Zullinger]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:38:47AM +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>> rjones: apache-ivy, maven-jar-plugin, maven-javadoc-plugin, gradle,
>> xmvn, plexus-utils
> 
> I'm unclear what if anything I could do (apart from maintaining loads
> of Java packages which isn't going to happen).  Is the email saying
> that some package of mine depends on these?  And if so which one?

The list of the expanded deps was quite large, so Miro
included a link to it in his message:

>> Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
>> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt

$ grep rjones[^:] /tmp/orphans-2019-03-11.txt | sort -u
erlang (maintained by: gemi, jeckersb, ndim, peter, rjones, skottler)
libguestfs (maintained by: mdbooth, ptoscano, rjones)
qemu (maintained by: amitshah, berrange, bonzini, crobinso, dwmw2, 
ehabkost, jforbes, lkundrak, quintela, rjones, virtmaint-sig)

-- 
Todd


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:38:47AM +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> rjones: apache-ivy, maven-jar-plugin, maven-javadoc-plugin, gradle,
> xmvn, plexus-utils

I'm unclear what if anything I could do (apart from maintaining loads
of Java packages which isn't going to happen).  Is the email saying
that some package of mine depends on these?  And if so which one?

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines.  Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages.  http://libguestfs.org
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Orcan Ogetbil]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 06:53, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> You can build Java apps as modules, yes.
> If we remove the mentioned packages from rawhide, it will be the only way to
> build Java packages.

How are the Java applications that come with C (JNI) extensions
handled in the modules model? How do they get the mass rebuilds due to
compiler/build flags/C library updates etc?

Thank you,
Orcan
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

On 13. 03. 19 18:05, Christopher wrote:

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:07 AM Randy Barlow
 wrote:


On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 18:39 -0400, Christopher wrote:

Well, the packager experience I'm expecting in 3 weeks is: "almost
all
of my dependencies and BuildRequires are gone; I can't build
anything".
How much worse could it get than that?


Fair. I don't think we anticipated the large migration that happened
when we were discussing it, or at least, I personally don't recall
anyone bringing this up as a potential issue.


One of the threads on this topic included the phrase "everything will
most likely burn". So, it was certainly mentioned that it was a
serious issue. Mikolaj also stressed the importance of this issue
several times. Whether anybody took it seriously or not as an issue is
another matter, but it was definitely raised as a "potential issue".


That was me (the "everything will most likely burn" subject).
I take this seriously. Not seriously enough to allow half baked solution that 
will break more things, but seriously enough to be concerned and care.


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Christopher]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 6:23 AM Mikolaj Izdebski  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 7:21 AM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> > Can you give us a minimal set of packages that is required to make sure 
> > libreoffice etc. aren't caught up in the mass retirement?
>
> The minimal package set is the contents of javapackages-tools module,
> stream 201801. There are about 185 packages in that module. That set
> of packages is self-hosting (doesn't depend on any other Java packages
> except OpenJDK) and gives you two basic build systems (Maven, Ant)
> with RPM integration.

Is it possible to use that module in F29? I don't want to move to
rawhide, since I'm a Fedora user first, and a packager second.
I don't see javapackages-tools in `sudo dnf module list`.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Christopher]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:07 AM Randy Barlow
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 18:39 -0400, Christopher wrote:
> > Well, the packager experience I'm expecting in 3 weeks is: "almost
> > all
> > of my dependencies and BuildRequires are gone; I can't build
> > anything".
> > How much worse could it get than that?
>
> Fair. I don't think we anticipated the large migration that happened
> when we were discussing it, or at least, I personally don't recall
> anyone bringing this up as a potential issue.

One of the threads on this topic included the phrase "everything will
most likely burn". So, it was certainly mentioned that it was a
serious issue. Mikolaj also stressed the importance of this issue
several times. Whether anybody took it seriously or not as an issue is
another matter, but it was definitely raised as a "potential issue".
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Randy Barlow]

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 18:39 -0400, Christopher wrote:
> Well, the packager experience I'm expecting in 3 weeks is: "almost
> all
> of my dependencies and BuildRequires are gone; I can't build
> anything".
> How much worse could it get than that?

Fair. I don't think we anticipated the large migration that happened
when we were discussing it, or at least, I personally don't recall
anyone bringing this up as a potential issue.


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 12:49 PM Florian Weimer  wrote:
>
> * Mikolaj Izdebski:
>
> >> As far as I understand it, under the Koji model, one of the tags wins,
> >> and which one determines whether you get the Python 2 subpackage or the
> >> Python 3 subpackage.  You cannot get both.  You will need two or more
> >> buildroots for that.
> >
> > That used to be the case, but for some time Koji supports
> > "repo_include_all" option [1] that has the exact effect you describe -
> > when set it makes build repos include all tagged RPMs, even if they
> > come from different SRPMs that happen to have the same name.
> >
> > [1] https://pagure.io/koji/issue/588
>
> *Very* interesting.
>
> Could this be used to address this issue, too?
>
>   
>
> (Including select i686 packages in the x86_64 buildroot.)

No, not by itself. repo_include_all won't lead to inclusion of RPMs
with non-matching arches.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Florian Weimer]

* Mikolaj Izdebski:

>> As far as I understand it, under the Koji model, one of the tags wins,
>> and which one determines whether you get the Python 2 subpackage or the
>> Python 3 subpackage.  You cannot get both.  You will need two or more
>> buildroots for that.
>
> That used to be the case, but for some time Koji supports
> "repo_include_all" option [1] that has the exact effect you describe -
> when set it makes build repos include all tagged RPMs, even if they
> come from different SRPMs that happen to have the same name.
>
> [1] https://pagure.io/koji/issue/588

*Very* interesting.

Could this be used to address this issue, too?

  

(Including select i686 packages in the x86_64 buildroot.)

Thanks,
Florian
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:59 AM Florian Weimer  wrote:
>
> * Mikolaj Izdebski:
>
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
> >> Alternative sum up:
> >> * People (not just Mikolaj) started using modules, while Koji cannot use 
> >> modular repos.
> >
> > Incorrect. Koji (the software) *can* use modular repos. I know of more
> > than one installation of Koji that successfully builds non-modular
> > contents against modules.
>
> Which installation would that be?  I would be surprised if there was
> *any* module-capable version of Koji out there.

Private installations that are not accessible publicly. I run one of
them myself.

> For example, is there a Koji version that can handle correctly the case
> where one module provides Python 2 subpackages of a source RPM, and
> another module provides Python 3 subpackages from a source RPM of the
> same name?

Yes, Koji can do that, since version 1.14.

> As far as I understand it, under the Koji model, one of the tags wins,
> and which one determines whether you get the Python 2 subpackage or the
> Python 3 subpackage.  You cannot get both.  You will need two or more
> buildroots for that.

That used to be the case, but for some time Koji supports
"repo_include_all" option [1] that has the exact effect you describe -
when set it makes build repos include all tagged RPMs, even if they
come from different SRPMs that happen to have the same name.

[1] https://pagure.io/koji/issue/588

--
Mikolaj
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Florian Weimer]

* Mikolaj Izdebski:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
>> Alternative sum up:
>> * People (not just Mikolaj) started using modules, while Koji cannot use 
>> modular repos.
>
> Incorrect. Koji (the software) *can* use modular repos. I know of more
> than one installation of Koji that successfully builds non-modular
> contents against modules.

Which installation would that be?  I would be surprised if there was
*any* module-capable version of Koji out there.

For example, is there a Koji version that can handle correctly the case
where one module provides Python 2 subpackages of a source RPM, and
another module provides Python 3 subpackages from a source RPM of the
same name?

As far as I understand it, under the Koji model, one of the tags wins,
and which one determines whether you get the Python 2 subpackage or the
Python 3 subpackage.  You cannot get both.  You will need two or more
buildroots for that.

Thanks,
Florian
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 7:21 AM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> Can you give us a minimal set of packages that is required to make sure 
> libreoffice etc. aren't caught up in the mass retirement?

The minimal package set is the contents of javapackages-tools module,
stream 201801. There are about 185 packages in that module. That set
of packages is self-hosting (doesn't depend on any other Java packages
except OpenJDK) and gives you two basic build systems (Maven, Ant)
with RPM integration.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 3/13/19 9:45 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:

* Hans de Goede [13/03/2019 08:51] :


A solution for this needs to be found and be in place *before* dropping
these packages not the otherway around.


We've known the solution for months, now.

If you (this is the generic you, not you specifically) want these packages
to be in the distribution, you need to step up and ask for maintainership
of said packages.

It's that simple, folks.


Sure I already own 150 pkgs I can take 4-5 more without really noticing
it, but I will only be fixing FTBFS errors and other blockers on them,
while at the same time they are being actively, probably better,
maintained in modules, so now we have a "kept alive as dep only" version
in base and an active maintained version in a module, this seems undesirable.

But lets get specific, one of the main issues here is all java packages
depending on javapackages-tools, which according to the top-post of
this thread is going away. Do we really want someone who maintains a
few leave packages which happen to depend on java to take this in base?

Also javapackages-tools does not look orphaned here:
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/javapackages-tools

So has the orphaning of that one been undone ?

Regards,

Hans
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Jakub Jelen]

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 21:24 +0100, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 3:11 PM Jakub Jelen 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 13:43 +0200, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> > > Hmm,
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/java-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MQMRQVENBLDRS67WLNQ7EOCMSDI5WIET/
> > > seems that people had a lot of time to act and get involved.
> > 
> > Unfortunately not everyone who happens to maintain a java package
> > is in
> > the java SIG and reading the mails there so I think this mail
> > should
> > have been sent at least to fedora-devel too, maybe even announce
> > since
> > it is touching so many packages (dependencies).
> 
> I did send an announcement to devel list several months before to
> orphaning packages. The above message from java-devel was linked on
> devel list.
> See: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/YFUXS7ZX6UDEMEKJWONKFMVDTSBABZID/

Thank you for pointing to the thread. Really, but saying "some" is not
what was is happening now. If it would say "most of", I could have
stopped to read it half a year ago.

> > I see that Mikolaj already did a lot of work of moving his packages
> > to
> > the modules, so a mail with simple instructions "this is a list of
> > things that I did for my packages and if you depend on them, do it
> > also", would save many maintainers as me hours of searching the
> > sparse
> > modularity documentation.
> 
> The approach I used to build my modules should be described in "MBI
> (playground 2.0)" on this list. I don't want to spend too much time
> on
> describing the process in very detail - I am actively working on an
> improved process that will require less resources.

This is very appreciated. I read through that email thread and the
document, but I was not really more clever from that.

Just out of curiosity I started reading through the list of packaged
that I would have to take to build my package and that is more than I
am really able to handle. And especially when you are working on better
way to package it in modules, it feels like waste of resources and 
time.

I would appreciate if there would be a way to build normal packages
against modules (somehow?), but if using modules has only advantages, I
would be very interested to do that too with my Java package. But as
already said by more people around, we really do not know how and we do
not have so much spare time to figure all of the details.

Regards,
-- 
Jakub Jelen
Software Engineer
Security Technologies
Red Hat, Inc.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Hans de Goede [13/03/2019 08:51] :
>
> A solution for this needs to be found and be in place *before* dropping
> these packages not the otherway around.

We've known the solution for months, now.

If you (this is the generic you, not you specifically) want these packages
to be in the distribution, you need to step up and ask for maintainership
of said packages.

It's that simple, folks.

Emmanuel
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 12-03-19 11:38, Miro Hrončok wrote:

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt



I'm sorry but just dropping all the java packages because they have
been moved to modules, totally breaking rawhide is simply unacceptable.

A solution for this needs to be found and be in place *before* dropping
these packages not the otherway around.

We are working to make rawhide more stable:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GatingRawhideSinglePackageUpdates
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_2020/Rawhide_Gating

Yet we are going to go ahead with this java package removal and
break the world? That is just totally unacceptable. I've filed a
FESCo issue requesting FESCo to block this:

https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2104

Regards,

Hans


p.s.

I must admit that I've been too busy with other things to closely
follow the whole modularity process. So far most talk has been
about BuildRequires, but what about regular Requires, can a
package in the base repo have a Requires on a package only
available in a module ?



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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Fabio Valentini]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 07:42 Alexander Bokovoy  wrote:

> On ke, 13 maalis 2019, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> >On Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 22:37 Mikolaj Izdebski  wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
> >>  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> >> > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen 
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a
> module or
> >> > > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> >> > >
> >> > > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> >> > > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> >> > > removal from distribution.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> >> > their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> >> > maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages
> available
> >> > as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> >> > packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> >> > it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> >> > non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> >> > that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of
> quite a
> >> > few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> >> > That's not excellent.
> >>
> >> I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If I followed your thinking
> >> then I colud say that by not adopting orphaned packages you are
> >> forcing others to do the same things you accuse me of forcing people
> >> to.
> >>
> >
> >Still, by making your life a bit easier (by dropping "normal" packages and
> >moving everything to modules), you make the life of every packager that
> >depends on those packages harder.
> >
> >Can you give us a minimal set of packages that is required to make sure
> >libreoffice etc. aren't caught up in the mass retirement?
> >
> >I could try to figure that out from the contents of the linked dependency
> >graph, but you probably already have that information somewhere.
> >
> >We might want to look for maintainers for that minimal set, at least. (I
> >think my Package Stewardship SIG idea is showing its merits here ...)
> Another, pragmatic, approach would be to actually postpone or revert
> orphaning process for all those packages now that there is understanding
> that FESCO is not opposed and is merely looking for a satisfying
> technical solution. I've been told by contyk and others that it is
> closer to reality now.
>

This might come across as cynical, but a "solution" has been "just around
the corner" for months / years, but these they have so far all been
scrapped again.

Fabio


> --
> / Alexander Bokovoy
> Sr. Principal Software Engineer
> Security / Identity Management Engineering
> Red Hat Limited, Finland
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Alexander Bokovoy]

On ke, 13 maalis 2019, Fabio Valentini wrote:

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 22:37 Mikolaj Izdebski  wrote:


On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
 wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen 
wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> >
> > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> > removal from distribution.
>
> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> That's not excellent.

I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If I followed your thinking
then I colud say that by not adopting orphaned packages you are
forcing others to do the same things you accuse me of forcing people
to.



Still, by making your life a bit easier (by dropping "normal" packages and
moving everything to modules), you make the life of every packager that
depends on those packages harder.

Can you give us a minimal set of packages that is required to make sure
libreoffice etc. aren't caught up in the mass retirement?

I could try to figure that out from the contents of the linked dependency
graph, but you probably already have that information somewhere.

We might want to look for maintainers for that minimal set, at least. (I
think my Package Stewardship SIG idea is showing its merits here ...)

Another, pragmatic, approach would be to actually postpone or revert
orphaning process for all those packages now that there is understanding
that FESCO is not opposed and is merely looking for a satisfying
technical solution. I've been told by contyk and others that it is
closer to reality now.

--
/ Alexander Bokovoy
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Security / Identity Management Engineering
Red Hat Limited, Finland
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Fabio Valentini]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 22:37 Mikolaj Izdebski  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> > > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> > >
> > > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> > > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> > > removal from distribution.
> >
> > Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> > their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> > maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
> > as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> > packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> > it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> > non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> > that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
> > few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> > That's not excellent.
>
> I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If I followed your thinking
> then I colud say that by not adopting orphaned packages you are
> forcing others to do the same things you accuse me of forcing people
> to.
>

Still, by making your life a bit easier (by dropping "normal" packages and
moving everything to modules), you make the life of every packager that
depends on those packages harder.

Can you give us a minimal set of packages that is required to make sure
libreoffice etc. aren't caught up in the mass retirement?

I could try to figure that out from the contents of the linked dependency
graph, but you probably already have that information somewhere.

We might want to look for maintainers for that minimal set, at least. (I
think my Package Stewardship SIG idea is showing its merits here ...)

Fabio


> >
> > Regards,
> > Dominik
> > --
> > Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
> > There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
> > oppression to develop psychic muscles.
> > -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Christopher]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 6:03 PM Randy Barlow
 wrote:
> As Miro said in another post, it's not that FESCo doesn't want to use
> modules in Koji, it's that we want to make sure that the packager
> experience is as good as it was pre-modularity, and in particular that
> packagers can build locally as they can today. IIRC, there were
> specific concerns about the details of the proposal to use Ursa Major
> that were raised at the time.

Well, the packager experience I'm expecting in 3 weeks is: "almost all
of my dependencies and BuildRequires are gone; I can't build
anything".
How much worse could it get than that?
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Randy Barlow]

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 22:18 +0100, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> It's Fedora developers (represented by
> elected body of FESCo) that don't want to use modules in Fedoras'
> Koji
> installation.

As Miro said in another post, it's not that FESCo doesn't want to use
modules in Koji, it's that we want to make sure that the packager
experience is as good as it was pre-modularity, and in particular that
packagers can build locally as they can today. IIRC, there were
specific concerns about the details of the proposal to use Ursa Major
that were raised at the time.

I do think most of FESCo does want to see the problem solved.


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

On 12. 03. 19 22:11, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:

I hope FESCo
will finally realize how important it is to allow building any package
against modules and change the policy, allowing modules to be used as
build dependencies for non-modular packages.


Oh we do realize. Especially since everything will break if we don't do this.
This was not rejected because we don't want to allow this, but because we were 
not satisfied with the technical solution.


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
 wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> >
> > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> > removal from distribution.
>
> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> That's not excellent.

I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If I followed your thinking
then I colud say that by not adopting orphaned packages you are
forcing others to do the same things you accuse me of forcing people
to.

>
> Regards,
> Dominik
> --
> Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
> There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
> oppression to develop psychic muscles.
> -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
> ___
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
> Alternative sum up:
> * People (not just Mikolaj) started using modules, while Koji cannot use 
> modular repos.

Incorrect. Koji (the software) *can* use modular repos. I know of more
than one installation of Koji that successfully builds non-modular
contents against modules. It's Fedora developers (represented by
elected body of FESCo) that don't want to use modules in Fedoras' Koji
installation.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 6:20 PM Christopher  wrote:
> Addendum: some of us part-time packagers, which depended on these
> packages to build our own Java packages don't know how to convert to
> modular packaging. I'm still trying to learn in my spare time, but I
> don't know where to look and have limited time. It was nearly all the
> spare cycles I had just to learn RPM, Fedora RPM packaging policies,
> and how to use fedpkg, koji, and bodhi. Now... I'm kinda lost again
> and feel like I'm starting over from scratch. I can't be the only one.
> I still think a lot of this is being driven by experienced Fedora
> packagers, and those involved in composes, but without a lot of regard
> to the casual or relatively inexperienced packager. pkgdb was a highly
> usable tool for inexperienced packagers, as it was a "one stop shop"
> for everything related to your package... but now... it's hard to find
> all the tools you need to do packaging.
>
> I have several Java packages that depend on one another, as well as
> dependencies now in modular repos. I have no idea where to get
> started. Which ones should be in the same module? Should each RPM be
> put in separate modules? How do I create convert my packages to
> modules? What is the workflow for builds? For updates? Do I still use
> fedpkg to submit to koji and bodhi? How will users install my RPMs
> now? I feel a bit overwhelmed by all of this... and I'm sure I should
> be spending more time trying to figure all this out on my own... but I
> really don't know where to start.

With "addon modularity" approach we currently use people shouldn't be
required to convert anything to modules. The idea is that parts of
Fedora can be modularized upon maintainer discretion. This change
should be transparent to users that are not aware of modularity.
Likewise, other Fedora developers should be able to maintain their
packages, even if their dependencies move to modules. That is not
possible without ordinary (non-modular, "ursine") packages being able
to be built against modular content. Unfortunately Fedora developers
(represented by FESCo) decided to forbid use of modules for building
non-modular packages. This was a sad and very disappointing decision
to read about and it was the direct cause that made me make the final
decision to orphan all packages I used to maintain for years.

Personally I think modularity is a great tool that will allow *me* to
reduce the effort needed to maintain packages and at the same time
improve user experience. But your mileage may vary. The effort that
packagers need to make in order to learn the new technology and change
their workflow may greatly outweight any possible gain from
modularity, especially for packagers that maintain fewer packages.
Therefore I discourage developers from moving their packages to
modules if they don't see the benefit for them and their users.
Instead I encourage people to talk about the problem. I hope FESCo
will finally realize how important it is to allow building any package
against modules and change the policy, allowing modules to be used as
build dependencies for non-modular packages.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 3:11 PM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 13:43 +0200, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> > Hmm,
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/java-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MQMRQVENBLDRS67WLNQ7EOCMSDI5WIET/
> > seems that people had a lot of time to act and get involved.
>
> Unfortunately not everyone who happens to maintain a java package is in
> the java SIG and reading the mails there so I think this mail should
> have been sent at least to fedora-devel too, maybe even announce since
> it is touching so many packages (dependencies).

I did send an announcement to devel list several months before to
orphaning packages. The above message from java-devel was linked on
devel list.
See: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/YFUXS7ZX6UDEMEKJWONKFMVDTSBABZID/

> I see that Mikolaj already did a lot of work of moving his packages to
> the modules, so a mail with simple instructions "this is a list of
> things that I did for my packages and if you depend on them, do it
> also", would save many maintainers as me hours of searching the sparse
> modularity documentation.

The approach I used to build my modules should be described in "MBI
(playground 2.0)" on this list. I don't want to spend too much time on
describing the process in very detail - I am actively working on an
improved process that will require less resources.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   5 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,4 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   4 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-netmizdebsk, orphan, spike  4 weeks ago
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,4 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   5 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   4 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
catkinorphan, rmattes, robotics-sig,   7 weeks ago
  thofmann
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   4 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 5 weeks ago
clang6.0  

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Christopher]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:43 AM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
>
> Dne 12. 03. 19 v 12:34 Neal Gompa napsal(a):
> > This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
> > * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> > didn't know how to ask for help
> > * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
> > modularization
> > * This caused everyone dependent on those packages to freak
> > * And here we are in the bad ending...
>
> Alternative sum up:
> * People (not just Mikolaj) started using modules, while Koji cannot use 
> modular repos.
>

Addendum: some of us part-time packagers, which depended on these
packages to build our own Java packages don't know how to convert to
modular packaging. I'm still trying to learn in my spare time, but I
don't know where to look and have limited time. It was nearly all the
spare cycles I had just to learn RPM, Fedora RPM packaging policies,
and how to use fedpkg, koji, and bodhi. Now... I'm kinda lost again
and feel like I'm starting over from scratch. I can't be the only one.
I still think a lot of this is being driven by experienced Fedora
packagers, and those involved in composes, but without a lot of regard
to the casual or relatively inexperienced packager. pkgdb was a highly
usable tool for inexperienced packagers, as it was a "one stop shop"
for everything related to your package... but now... it's hard to find
all the tools you need to do packaging.

I have several Java packages that depend on one another, as well as
dependencies now in modular repos. I have no idea where to get
started. Which ones should be in the same module? Should each RPM be
put in separate modules? How do I create convert my packages to
modules? What is the workflow for builds? For updates? Do I still use
fedpkg to submit to koji and bodhi? How will users install my RPMs
now? I feel a bit overwhelmed by all of this... and I'm sure I should
be spending more time trying to figure all this out on my own... but I
really don't know where to start.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 12. 03. 19 v 12:34 Neal Gompa napsal(a):
> This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
> * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> didn't know how to ask for help
> * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
> modularization
> * This caused everyone dependent on those packages to freak
> * And here we are in the bad ending...

Alternative sum up:
* People (not just Mikolaj) started using modules, while Koji cannot use 
modular repos.

Miroslav
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Randy Barlow]

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 12:16 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
wrote:
> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of
> their
> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages
> available
> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans.
> If
> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of
> quite a
> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> That's not excellent.

It's important to keep in mind that many of us volunteer to work on
Fedora, including those of us who work at Red Hat (and even including
those of us who work at Red Hat full time on Fedora!) I do personally
wish we had RPM maintainers for these Java packages, but I don't think
we should make demands from our volunteers. That's not how a community
project works. I think it's OK to express that we wish there were RPMs
for these packages, but we shouldn't blame any particular person when
that doesn't happen. Things happen in open source when people do the
work to make those things happen. As much as I wish we could save these
packages, I am not going to choose to use my time that way. So the most
I would say about it is "it'd be nice if someone else volunteered to do
that work".

I sometimes receive bug reports in Bodhi where the reporter has a
demanding attitude. I welcome bug reports, but I also have to be honest
that maintaining Bodhi is far more work than the people who show up to
do it can handle.  Most things in Bodhi will only happen if someone
volunteers to write the code, so most of the bugs we get filed aren't
going to get worked on. It's not helpful to either party if the
reporter has a demanding attitude.


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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Jakub Jelen]

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 13:43 +0200, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:36 PM Neal Gompa 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 7:29 AM Aleksandar Kurtakov <
> > akurt...@redhat.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
> > domi...@greysector.net> wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen <
> > > > > jje...@redhat.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a
> > > > > > module
> > or
> > > > > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already
> > > > > packaged as
> > > > > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause
> > > > > their
> > > > > removal from distribution.
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that
> > > > depend on
> > > > their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands
> > > > of their
> > > > maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages
> > > > available
> > > > as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake
> > > > their
> > > > packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your
> > > > orphans. If
> > > > it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> > > > non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping
> > > > with
> > > > that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement
> > > > of quite a
> > > > few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with
> > > > Modularity.
> > > > That's not excellent.
> > > 
> > > Dominik, that is totally ugly reply to Mikolaj! Whole Java RPM
> > > community
> > (note not only Fedora but Mageia and etc. too) relied on his work
> > to keep
> > hundreds (or maybe even thousands) of packages rpm installable. And
> > he has
> > done that for years without ever complaining! Even more he is one
> > of the
> > most helpful maintainers whenever someone faces an issue. Respect
> > should be
> > shown when deserved, blaming like that causes nothing but ill
> > feelings.
> > > Everyone should remember that this is *COMMUNITY* project and
> > > if/when
> > someone needs something they should be ready to jump in and do the
> > work -
> > whether taking packages or helping infra guys or whatever but no
> > one owes
> > others anything.
> > > P.S. As Eclipse stack maintainers we are directly hit by this and
> > already working towards turning it into module as we don't have the
> > manpower to take over the maintainership of pristine rpms that
> > Mikolaj
> > maintains. Whoever things that's easy job is welcome to try it out!
> > 
> > This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum
> > up:
> > * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> > didn't know how to ask for help
> > * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to
> > force
> > modularization
> > * This caused everyone dependent on those packages to freak
> > * And here we are in the bad ending...
> > 
> > We could have avoided the bad ending if at any point there was an
> > official call for help to increase Java SIG manpower. There wasn't.
> > We
> > could have avoided this if there was a discussion before the
> > orphaning. There wasn't.
> > 
> > We could have avoided the bad ending if people dependent on Java
> > packages were given the opportunity to help. As you say, this is a
> > community distro. That goes both ways. But that didn't happen.
> > 
> 
> Hmm,
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/java-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MQMRQVENBLDRS67WLNQ7EOCMSDI5WIET/
> seems that people had a lot of time to act and get involved.

Unfortunately not everyone who happens to maintain a java package is in
the java SIG and reading the mails there so I think this mail should
have been sent at least to fedora-devel too, maybe even announce since
it is touching so many packages (dependencies).

I used to have one java package inherited from inactive maintainer then
one more and now comes third. I have them because I want to be able to
use and update my application in Fedora. I really do not care if they
will be built in Fedora or Arbitrary branching.

I see that Mikolaj already did a lot of work of moving his packages to
the modules, so a mail with simple instructions "this is a list of
things that I did for my packages and if you depend on them, do it
also", would save many maintainers as me hours of searching the sparse
modularity documentation.

If there are no such steps, I will jump for the packages that I need,
but if the Java in Fedora future should be modular, lets do that. But
remember: We do not know how.

Regards,
-- 
Jakub Jelen
Software Engineer
Security Technologies
Red Hat, Inc.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 8:35 AM Mikolaj Izdebski  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:36 PM Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
> > * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> > didn't know how to ask for help
>
> You did not know that, but the situation in Java SIG is well known to
> Java SIG members. Statistics speak for themselves.
>

I'm not a Java SIG member, so how would I know?

> For example, the packager who owns the most of Java packages (point of
> contacts for 480 Java packages) made his last commit in February 2017.
> The second maintainer (PoC for 94 Java packages) had last commit in
> 2015. The fourth (PoC of 55 packages) - last commit in March 2017. And
> so on.
>
> Situation on mailing list is not much better. Less than 20 mail
> threads in each of years 2018 and 2017. Compare with more than 150
> threads in year 2013.
>
> The last Java SIG IRC meeting took place in February 2013.
>
> > * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
> > modularization
>
> I did not orphan that many packages. I orphaned about 250 packages only.
>

Sorry, you're right, it affects nearly that many though.

> It is not too late for anything. Orphaned packages can still be
> adopted. That's the whole point of this thread.
>
> > We could have avoided the bad ending if at any point there was an
> > official call for help to increase Java SIG manpower. There wasn't. We
> > could have avoided this if there was a discussion before the
> > orphaning. There wasn't.
>
> We don't have any official process for calling for help. Other distros
> (at least Debian) have it, but not Fedora.
>

The reason Debian has one is because people generally don't know how
to work with each other there. That said, if we need a process for
this for some people to be more comfortable, then that probably should
be requested from FESCo.

> Discussion requires more than one participating party. I started a
> thread on java-devel list where I explained the situation and my plans
> in detail. There was no reply on the list, not a single message. I
> only had one or two private conversations about this problem.
>
> > We could have avoided the bad ending if people dependent on Java
> > packages were given the opportunity to help. As you say, this is a
> > community distro. That goes both ways. But that didn't happen.
>
> IMHO I've been very patient. I've given the community a lot of
> opportunity to help. I never refused any help. I was and I am still
> working with new contributors that want to become packagers.
>

At the risk of overwhelming myself with yet another SIG (I'm in
Python, Go, and Rust already!), I'm willing to help as a SIG member if
that's what it takes to prevent this. I don't know much about Java
packaging (I have only a single Java based package), though.


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:36 PM Neal Gompa  wrote:
> This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
> * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> didn't know how to ask for help

You did not know that, but the situation in Java SIG is well known to
Java SIG members. Statistics speak for themselves.

For example, the packager who owns the most of Java packages (point of
contacts for 480 Java packages) made his last commit in February 2017.
The second maintainer (PoC for 94 Java packages) had last commit in
2015. The fourth (PoC of 55 packages) - last commit in March 2017. And
so on.

Situation on mailing list is not much better. Less than 20 mail
threads in each of years 2018 and 2017. Compare with more than 150
threads in year 2013.

The last Java SIG IRC meeting took place in February 2013.

> * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
> modularization

I did not orphan that many packages. I orphaned about 250 packages only.

It is not too late for anything. Orphaned packages can still be
adopted. That's the whole point of this thread.

> We could have avoided the bad ending if at any point there was an
> official call for help to increase Java SIG manpower. There wasn't. We
> could have avoided this if there was a discussion before the
> orphaning. There wasn't.

We don't have any official process for calling for help. Other distros
(at least Debian) have it, but not Fedora.

Discussion requires more than one participating party. I started a
thread on java-devel list where I explained the situation and my plans
in detail. There was no reply on the list, not a single message. I
only had one or two private conversations about this problem.

> We could have avoided the bad ending if people dependent on Java
> packages were given the opportunity to help. As you say, this is a
> community distro. That goes both ways. But that didn't happen.

IMHO I've been very patient. I've given the community a lot of
opportunity to help. I never refused any help. I was and I am still
working with new contributors that want to become packagers.

--
Mikolaj
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:36 PM Neal Gompa  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 7:29 AM Aleksandar Kurtakov 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
> domi...@greysector.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> >> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen 
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module
> or
> >> > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> >> >
> >> > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> >> > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> >> > removal from distribution.
> >>
> >> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> >> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> >> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
> >> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> >> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> >> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> >> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> >> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
> >> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> >> That's not excellent.
> >
> >
> > Dominik, that is totally ugly reply to Mikolaj! Whole Java RPM community
> (note not only Fedora but Mageia and etc. too) relied on his work to keep
> hundreds (or maybe even thousands) of packages rpm installable. And he has
> done that for years without ever complaining! Even more he is one of the
> most helpful maintainers whenever someone faces an issue. Respect should be
> shown when deserved, blaming like that causes nothing but ill feelings.
> > Everyone should remember that this is *COMMUNITY* project and if/when
> someone needs something they should be ready to jump in and do the work -
> whether taking packages or helping infra guys or whatever but no one owes
> others anything.
> >
> > P.S. As Eclipse stack maintainers we are directly hit by this and
> already working towards turning it into module as we don't have the
> manpower to take over the maintainership of pristine rpms that Mikolaj
> maintains. Whoever things that's easy job is welcome to try it out!
> >
>
> This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
> * No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
> didn't know how to ask for help
> * Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
> modularization
> * This caused everyone dependent on those packages to freak
> * And here we are in the bad ending...
>
> We could have avoided the bad ending if at any point there was an
> official call for help to increase Java SIG manpower. There wasn't. We
> could have avoided this if there was a discussion before the
> orphaning. There wasn't.
>
> We could have avoided the bad ending if people dependent on Java
> packages were given the opportunity to help. As you say, this is a
> community distro. That goes both ways. But that didn't happen.
>

Hmm,
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/java-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MQMRQVENBLDRS67WLNQ7EOCMSDI5WIET/
seems that people had a lot of time to act and get involved.


>
> So here we are, in the bad ending.
>
>
>
> --
> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Red Hat Eclipse Team
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 7:29 AM Aleksandar Kurtakov  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski 
>  wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
>> > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
>> >
>> > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
>> > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
>> > removal from distribution.
>>
>> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
>> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
>> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
>> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
>> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
>> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
>> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
>> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
>> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
>> That's not excellent.
>
>
> Dominik, that is totally ugly reply to Mikolaj! Whole Java RPM community 
> (note not only Fedora but Mageia and etc. too) relied on his work to keep 
> hundreds (or maybe even thousands) of packages rpm installable. And he has 
> done that for years without ever complaining! Even more he is one of the most 
> helpful maintainers whenever someone faces an issue. Respect should be shown 
> when deserved, blaming like that causes nothing but ill feelings.
> Everyone should remember that this is *COMMUNITY* project and if/when someone 
> needs something they should be ready to jump in and do the work - whether 
> taking packages or helping infra guys or whatever but no one owes others 
> anything.
>
> P.S. As Eclipse stack maintainers we are directly hit by this and already 
> working towards turning it into module as we don't have the manpower to take 
> over the maintainership of pristine rpms that Mikolaj maintains. Whoever 
> things that's easy job is welcome to try it out!
>

This whole process was handled in the worst possible way. To sum up:
* No one knew Java SIG was having manpower issues because Mikolaj
didn't know how to ask for help
* Now it's too late because he orphaned nearly 1700 packages to force
modularization
* This caused everyone dependent on those packages to freak
* And here we are in the bad ending...

We could have avoided the bad ending if at any point there was an
official call for help to increase Java SIG manpower. There wasn't. We
could have avoided this if there was a discussion before the
orphaning. There wasn't.

We could have avoided the bad ending if people dependent on Java
packages were given the opportunity to help. As you say, this is a
community distro. That goes both ways. But that didn't happen.

So here we are, in the bad ending.



--
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:17 PM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
domi...@greysector.net> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> > > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> >
> > Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> > modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> > removal from distribution.
>
> Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
> their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
> maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
> as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
> packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
> it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
> non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
> that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
> few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
> That's not excellent.
>

Dominik, that is totally ugly reply to Mikolaj! Whole Java RPM community
(note not only Fedora but Mageia and etc. too) relied on his work to keep
hundreds (or maybe even thousands) of packages rpm installable. And he has
done that for years without ever complaining! Even more he is one of the
most helpful maintainers whenever someone faces an issue. Respect should be
shown when deserved, blaming like that causes nothing but ill feelings.
Everyone should remember that this is *COMMUNITY* project and if/when
someone needs something they should be ready to jump in and do the work -
whether taking packages or helping infra guys or whatever but no one owes
others anything.

P.S. As Eclipse stack maintainers we are directly hit by this and already
working towards turning it into module as we don't have the manpower to
take over the maintainership of pristine rpms that Mikolaj maintains.
Whoever things that's easy job is welcome to try it out!


>
> Regards,
> Dominik
> --
> Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
> There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
> oppression to develop psychic muscles.
> -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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-- 
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Red Hat Eclipse Team
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 12:02, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
> >
> > Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> > we will really remove all these package from Fedora?
> 
> Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
> modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
> removal from distribution.

Maybe, but it will cause the removal of other packages that depend on
their regular (non-modular) builds. You are forcing the hands of their
maintainers before the infrastructure to make modular packages available
as build dependencies to regular packages is in place to remake their
packages into modules, let them be retired or pick up your orphans. If
it were ready, your moving these packages to modules would be a
non-event for everyone concerned except you. Instead of helping with
that (or just waiting), you are about to cause the retirement of quite a
few packages whose maintainers want nothing to do with Modularity.
That's not excellent.

Regards,
Dominik
-- 
Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
oppression to develop psychic muscles.
-- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:49 AM Jakub Jelen  wrote:
>
> Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
> we will really remove all these package from Fedora?

Most of Java packages listed in this thread are already packaged as
modules. Their retirement in rawhide won't directly cause their
removal from distribution.

> I am really not interested in maintaining a whole java frameworks
> stack, but some guidance (not these weekly emails) from java
> maintainers team that took this decision would be appreciated.

Can you elaborate on what kind of guidance do you expect?

There is no "Java maintainers team" in Fedora. Java packages are
maintained by individual packagers. Theoretically there exists a Java
SIG, but its activity is limited to a couple of emails per year, with
significant part of them talking about orphaning or retiring packages.

--
Mikolaj Izdebski
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

On 12. 03. 19 11:48, Jakub Jelen wrote:

Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
we will really remove all these package from Fedora?


You can build Java apps as modules, yes.
If we remove the mentioned packages from rawhide, it will be the only way to 
build Java packages.
No, there is not yet supported way to build "normal" packages with modular 
buildrequires.
Yes, I'm really going to retire those packages on rawhide if nobody picks them 
or if we don't agree on an exception (such as, wait X extra weeks before the 
problem is solved).



I am really not interested in maintaining a whole java frameworks
stack, but some guidance (not these weekly emails) from java
maintainers team that took this decision would be appreciated.


I'd appreciate it as well.

--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Jakub Jelen]

Is there already a way to package the java application as a module or
we will really remove all these package from Fedora?

I am really not interested in maintaining a whole java frameworks
stack, but some guidance (not these weekly emails) from java
maintainers team that took this decision would be appreciated.

Regards,
Jakub

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 11:38 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know
> for sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
> reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
> 
> Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the
> affected
> packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected
> package or
> retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise
> your
> package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.
> 
> Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
> https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt
> 
> Request package ownership via releng ticket: 
> https://pagure.io/releng/issues

...
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Orphaned packages to be retired (Java packages in 3 weeks)

[Miro Hrončok]

The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you know for sure
that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper reason:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life

Note: If you received this mail directly you (co)maintain one of the affected
packages or a package that depends on one. Please adopt the affected package or
retire your depending package to avoid broken dependencies, otherwise your
package will be retired when the affected package gets retired.

Grep the list for your FAS name, follow the transitive deps:
https://churchyard.fedorapeople.org/orphans-2019-03-11.txt

Request package ownership via releng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issues

Package  (co)maintainers   Status Change

OSGi-bundle-ant-task  orphan   5 weeks ago
SimplyHTMLmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
aether-connector-okhttp   galileo, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
ant-contrib   davidcl, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
antlr3dchen, lef, mizdebsk,4 weeks ago
  mjakubicek, orphan, walters
aopalliance   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-beanutils  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-collectionsjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-collections4   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-compress   mizdebsk, mkoncek, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-configuration  fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-csvlef, mizdebsk, orphan, spike 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-discovery  lkundrak, mizdebsk, orphan,  4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-el fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-fileupload jerboaa, mizdebsk, mmraka,   4 weeks ago
  orphan, spike
apache-commons-jexl   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-commons-jxpath fnasser, mizdebsk, orphan,   4 weeks ago
  spike
apache-commons-netmizdebsk, orphan, spike  4 weeks ago
apache-ivymizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-james-project  lef, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
apache-logging-parent mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-mime4j lef, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
apache-parent mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-ratmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apache-resource-bundles   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
apiguardian   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
aqute-bnd jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
args4jjcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
atinject  kdaniel, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
avalon-framework  jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
avalon-logkit jerboaa, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
base64coder   jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
batik jvanek, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
bcel  mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
bea-stax  jcapik, mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
beust-jcommander  jcapik, jvanek, mizdebsk,4 weeks ago
  orphan
blobbyorphan   5 weeks ago
bsf   choeger, mizdebsk, orphan4 weeks ago
bsh   mizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
c3p0  dchen, lef, orphan   4 weeks ago
cal10nmizdebsk, orphan 4 weeks ago
catkinorphan, rmattes, robotics-sig,   7 weeks ago
  thofmann
checkstyledbhole, greghellings, lef,   4 weeks ago
  mizdebsk, nsantos, orphan,
  rmyers
clang5.0  orphan, tstellar 5 weeks ago
clang6.0  

Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 13. 02. 19 v 7:33 Jens-Ulrik Petersen napsal(a):
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:44 PM Vít Ondruch  > wrote:
>
> Dne 11. 02. 19 v 4:33 Jens-Ulrik Petersen napsal(a):
>> I have to say I am not really enjoying this ongoing aggressive
>> package retirement process.
>> If packages are not broken and needed by other packages, then I
>> don't see why we are hurrying to break things.
>> I think a better process might be for maintainers orphaning
>> packages to contact dependent package maintainers directly asking
>> them to take over the package they want to drop.
>
> The orphaning procedure [1] states: "5. Announce on devel which
> package you orphaned, so that others have a chance to take over as
> maintainer." This sounds reasonable to me, close to what you propose.
>
> In theory yes, but in practice I am rather more likely to notice a
> direct private mail than a mailing list post.


I understand your point. OTOH, send email to devel is significantly
easier then listing dependent packages and emailing their maintainers.


V.


>
> I had another idea: delegating the retirement of packages to SIGs when
> appropriate, but of course that may requires a clearer mapping of SIG
> packages.
>
> Jens
>
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:34, Jens-Ulrik Petersen  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:44 PM Vít Ondruch  wrote:
>>
>> Dne 11. 02. 19 v 4:33 Jens-Ulrik Petersen napsal(a):
>>
>> I have to say I am not really enjoying this ongoing aggressive package 
>> retirement process.
>> If packages are not broken and needed by other packages, then I don't see 
>> why we are hurrying to break things.
>> I think a better process might be for maintainers orphaning packages to 
>> contact dependent package maintainers directly asking them to take over the 
>> package they want to drop.
>>
>> The orphaning procedure [1] states: "5. Announce on devel which package you 
>> orphaned, so that others have a chance to take over as maintainer." This 
>> sounds reasonable to me, close to what you propose.
>
> In theory yes, but in practice I am rather more likely to notice a direct 
> private mail than a mailing list post.
>
> I had another idea: delegating the retirement of packages to SIGs when 
> appropriate, but of course that may requires a clearer mapping of SIG 
> packages.

The issue here is that we have a "Tragedy of the Commons" and
"Volunteer's Dilemma" going on with people able to not notice things
and expect others to build/fix things for them. However the number of
packages and the amount of work required per release is getting
higher.. The current 'fix' is to orphan packages more quickly and
faster to lower the 'payoff' that people have for coasting. The moving
packages to SIG's makes the commons smaller for each set of packages
which may help with it some.. but may also end up with 'well someone
in the sig will deal with it.. oh no one did' again. The emailing a
person directly doesn't seem to help because lots of packagers seem to
miss direct emails also. In the end there is a level of diminishing
returns for the amount of time that the people volunteering to keep
this going have.. and currently that is in the mass emails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer%27s_dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

> Jens
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Jens-Ulrik Petersen]

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:44 PM Vít Ondruch  wrote:

> Dne 11. 02. 19 v 4:33 Jens-Ulrik Petersen napsal(a):
>
> I have to say I am not really enjoying this ongoing aggressive package
> retirement process.
> If packages are not broken and needed by other packages, then I don't see
> why we are hurrying to break things.
> I think a better process might be for maintainers orphaning packages to
> contact dependent package maintainers directly asking them to take over the
> package they want to drop.
>
> The orphaning procedure [1] states: "5. Announce on devel which package
> you orphaned, so that others have a chance to take over as maintainer."
> This sounds reasonable to me, close to what you propose.
>
In theory yes, but in practice I am rather more likely to notice a direct
private mail than a mailing list post.

I had another idea: delegating the retirement of packages to SIGs when
appropriate, but of course that may requires a clearer mapping of SIG
packages.

Jens
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Re: Orphaned packages to be retired

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 11. 02. 19 v 4:33 Jens-Ulrik Petersen napsal(a):
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:27 AM Miro Hrončok  > wrote:
>
> The following packages are orphaned and will be retired when they
> are orphaned for six weeks, unless someone adopts them. If you
> know for sure
> that the package should be retired, please do so now with a proper
> reason:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_remove_a_package_at_end_of_life
>
> I plan to retire packages that were already announced 3 times next
> Monday.
>
>
> Which packages?
>
>
> llvm5.0                       jistone, orphan, tstellar           
> 0 weeks ago
>
>
> This is needed for ARM by ghc:8.4 and
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GHC_8.4
>  
>
> llvm6.0                       orphan, tstellar                   
>  0 weeks ago
>
>
> This is needed on ARM by ghc:8.6.
>
>
> I have to say I am not really enjoying this ongoing aggressive package
> retirement process.
> If packages are not broken and needed by other packages, then I don't
> see why we are hurrying to break things.
> I think a better process might be for maintainers orphaning packages
> to contact dependent package maintainers directly asking them to take
> over the package they want to drop.


The orphaning procedure [1] states: "5. Announce on devel which package
you orphaned, so that others have a chance to take over as maintainer."
This sounds reasonable to me, close to what you propose.


Vít


[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Orphaned_package_that_need_new_maintainers#Orphaning_Procedure

>
> Jens
>  
>
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