Re: dnf is completly broken

[Honza Šilhan]

> From: "Germano Massullo" <germano.massu...@gmail.com>
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" 
> <devel@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:43:42 PM
> Subject: Re: dnf is completly broken

:)

> Il 04/10/2015 16:32, Neal Gompa ha scritto:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Germano Massullo <
> germano.massu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> 
> 
> In past days I experienced the following problem
> "dnf install" exits if there is a non existing package in the requested
> packages list"
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1268606
> 
> 
> ​Do you have "
> strict=True
> " in
> /etc/dnf/dnf.conf
> ?​
> No

Actually strict=True is default DNF behavior. You should add 
`--setopt=strict=False`
to your command line [1] if you wanna skip unavailable / broken packages.

Honza


[1] 
http://dnf.readthedocs.org/en/latest/conf_ref.html?highlight=strict#repo-options
[2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1197456
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Germano Massullo]

Il 04/10/2015 16:32, Neal Gompa ha scritto:
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Germano Massullo
> >wrote:
>
> In past days I experienced the following problem
> "dnf install" exits if there is a non existing package in the
> requested
> packages list"
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1268606
>
>
> ​Do you have "
> strict=True
> " in
> /etc/dnf/dnf.conf
> ?​
>  
No
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Germano Massullo]

In past days I experienced the following problem
"dnf install" exits if there is a non existing package in the requested
packages list"
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1268606
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Germano Massullo <
germano.massu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In past days I experienced the following problem
> "dnf install" exits if there is a non existing package in the requested
> packages list"
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1268606
>
>
​Do you have "
strict=True
" in
/etc/dnf/dnf.conf
?​



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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Adam Williamson]

On Sun, 2015-09-27 at 13:39 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:

> BTW, I don't like dnf either. I think it doesn't actually solve any
> of
> the real problems of yum, and the whole "recommends" thing is
> destabilizing as hell.

Weak dependencies are a new RPM feature, nothing particularly to do
with dnf. If we didn't have dnf they'd probably be getting implemented
in yum. In fact I don't think they're actually being implemented in dnf
at all, but in libsolv.

trolling cut because trolling.
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Reindl Harald 
wrote:

>
>
> Am 27.09.2015 um 13:57 schrieb Neal Gompa:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>> Am 27.09.2015 um 11:27 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones:
>>
>> This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".
>> It
>> may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.
>>
>>
>> a package manager which pretends "nothing to do" after rm -rf
>> /var/cache/dnf/* while there are two fresh builds is by definition
>> broken
>>
>> ​My question to you is... why are you doing "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*"​?
>> Why not just do "sudo dnf  --refresh"? That forces DNF to
>> actually look at everything again. If your goal is to clean everything
>> out, then "sudo dnf clean all" would do the trick too (which also worked
>> in the yum days)
>>
>
> how often do you ask that question again?
>
>
​I ask it because sometimes people are doing things that are a fat-finger
away from being really bad when it isn't necessary.​ If there are better
and safer ways to do things, I usually ask why they aren't using them.
Sometimes there's a good reason, other times there isn't. As for the
frequency in which I ask it, usually not that often anymore, but it used to
come up more often.


> a empty "/var/cache/yum|dnf" is a by definition and unconditional empty
> cache


​Perhaps so, but how is DNF supposed to know it's empty? When it hits and
has a file not found? I know that when I do a "dnf clean all", it removes
the solv cache and the metadata cache and writes a file into /var/cache/dnf
that indicates that the data has expired, which prompts DNF to pull
everything on the next run.



> why should i trust a software obviously not working with the basic
> commands right in case of other ones?
>
> ​
​Maybe because it isn't obvious. Frankly, "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*" is a
bad idea most of the time. ​Sledgehammers aren't needed here. :)



> and BTW we are not a Ubuntu - what's up with all that "sudo" stuff - if i
> am root then i am root, that's it
>
>
​Erm, we've had the option in Fedora to set up sudo at install time for
quite a while now. I've used it all the time because I rarely need to be
superuser beyond an action or two. Sure, I could just switch to root, but I
don't need to unless I'm doing a lot of actions that require superuser
privileges in quick succession. You can replace it with "su -c" or you can
just use it as a marker to indicate you need to be root for it.​


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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Germano Massullo]

You may want to give a look to
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf/wiki/Hacking#logging
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Reindl Harald 
wrote:

>
>
> Am 27.09.2015 um 11:27 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones:
>
>> This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".  It
>> may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.
>>
>
> a package manager which pretends "nothing to do" after rm -rf
> /var/cache/dnf/* while there are two fresh builds is by definition broken
>
>
​My question to you is... why are you doing "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*"​? Why
not just do "sudo dnf  --refresh"? That forces DNF to actually look
at everything again. If your goal is to clean everything out, then "sudo
dnf clean all" would do the trick too (which also worked in the yum days).


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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Josef Bacik]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
>
>
> Am 27.09.2015 um 13:57 schrieb Neal Gompa:
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>> Am 27.09.2015 um 11:27 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones:
>>
>> This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".
>> It
>> may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.
>>
>>
>> a package manager which pretends "nothing to do" after rm -rf
>> /var/cache/dnf/* while there are two fresh builds is by definition
>> broken
>>
>> My question to you is... why are you doing "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*"?
>> Why not just do "sudo dnf  --refresh"? That forces DNF to
>> actually look at everything again. If your goal is to clean everything
>> out, then "sudo dnf clean all" would do the trick too (which also worked
>> in the yum days)
>
>
> how often do you ask that question again?
>
> a empty "/var/cache/yum|dnf" is a by definition and unconditional empty
> cache - why should i trust a software obviously not working with the basic
> commands right in case of other ones?
>
> and BTW we are not a Ubuntu - what's up with all that "sudo" stuff - if i am
> root then i am root, that's it
>

This is unnecessarily combative and derogatory to a fellow
distribution, why are you going out of your way to be mean spirited?
Thanks,

Josef
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Josef Bacik]

There is a bugzilla, ranting on a mailing list every time you hit a bug
makes you an unlikeable person who doesn't get taken seriously.  Thanks,

Josef
On Sep 26, 2015 10:21 PM, "Reindl Harald"  wrote:

> besides https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1263888 and the
> ridicolous size of /var/cache/dnf/ in genereal it's unacceptable that "dnf
> -v update dbmail-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
> dbmail-manpages-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
> dbmail-tools-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
> gmime-2.6.20-7.fc22.20150927.rh.x86_64.rpm" *directly* in the repofolder
> works (after repeat the command because the bug above) while DNF pretends
> "nothing to do"
>
> and YES, "createrepo" was called corerctly by the script filling it for
> many years now and a "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*" as well as the fact that
> it's a own repo without mirrors leaves not much questions
>
> so how many update do we randomly miss now?
>
> Sep 22 14:53:55 INFO Upgraded: python-dnf-plugins-core-0.1.12-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:53:55 INFO Upgraded: python-dnf-plugins-core-0.1.12-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:53:55 INFO Upgraded: dnf-plugins-core-0.1.12-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:53:55 INFO Upgraded: dnf-plugins-core-0.1.12-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:54:00 INFO Cleanup: dnf-plugins-core-0.1.11-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:54:00 INFO Cleanup: dnf-plugins-core-0.1.11-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:54:00 INFO Cleanup: python-dnf-plugins-core-0.1.11-1.fc22.noarch
> Sep 22 14:54:00 INFO Cleanup: python-dnf-plugins-core-0.1.11-1.fc22.noarch
>
>
> rhsoft-fedora: using metadata from Sun Sep 27 04:08:01 2015.
> rpmfusion-free-updates-testing: using metadata from Fri Apr 10 19:47:11
> 2015.
> rpmfusion-nonfree: using metadata from Wed Aug  5 09:07:52 2015.
> Last metadata expiration check performed 0:02:36 ago on Sun Sep 27
> 04:12:39 2015.
> --> Starting dependency resolution
> --> Finished dependency resolution
> Dependencies resolved.
> Nothing to do.
> Completion plugin: Generating completion cache...
> Complete!
>
>
>
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Reindl Harald]

Am 27.09.2015 um 11:27 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones:

This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".  It
may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.


a package manager which pretends "nothing to do" after rm -rf 
/var/cache/dnf/* while there are two fresh builds is by definition broken


only god knows which other updates are silently ignored

maybe that explains why both of my F22 boxes pretends the last 4 days 
that there are no updates at all too - who knows


"quite tiresome" is only that Fedora again and again replaces mature 
software with alpha-quality and incomplete "improvements"




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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Reindl Harald]

Am 27.09.2015 um 13:57 schrieb Neal Gompa:

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:

Am 27.09.2015 um 11:27 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones:

This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".  It
may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.


a package manager which pretends "nothing to do" after rm -rf
/var/cache/dnf/* while there are two fresh builds is by definition
broken

​My question to you is... why are you doing "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*"​?
Why not just do "sudo dnf  --refresh"? That forces DNF to
actually look at everything again. If your goal is to clean everything
out, then "sudo dnf clean all" would do the trick too (which also worked
in the yum days)


how often do you ask that question again?

a empty "/var/cache/yum|dnf" is a by definition and unconditional empty 
cache - why should i trust a software obviously not working with the 
basic commands right in case of other ones?


and BTW we are not a Ubuntu - what's up with all that "sudo" stuff - if 
i am root then i am root, that's it




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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Reindl Harald]

Am 27.09.2015 um 19:08 schrieb Josef Bacik:

This is unnecessarily combative and derogatory to a fellow
distribution, why are you going out of your way to be mean spirited?


because i am tired of regressions over regressinos from replacements of 
replacements tyring to sell me improvements which aren't ones?


that may work for new users facing "new" things in the next releases as 
new and imporved but that won't work for people using Fedora for many 
years and just say "no, that's not a improvement, it's just a iteration 
and bringing back things which worked perfectly fine before it got 
replaced and improved"


and yes: i know it's not only Fedora specific, it's the result of 
throwing away working things left and right in the hope making all from 
scratch and get rid of the dirty parts of the past makes things better 
until realizing that dirty parts where the one making a difference and 
catching all the bordercases




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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
>
>
> Am 27.09.2015 um 19:08 schrieb Josef Bacik:
>>
>> This is unnecessarily combative and derogatory to a fellow
>> distribution, why are you going out of your way to be mean spirited?
>
>
> because i am tired of regressions over regressinos from replacements of
> replacements tyring to sell me improvements which aren't ones?

The attitude is discouraging nice people from helping or accepting
your concerns as anything but ranting. Been there, done that, there
are reasons Theo de Raadt calls me names.

BTW, I don't like dnf either. I think it doesn't actually solve any of
the real problems of yum, and the whole "recommends" thing is
destabilizing as hell.

> and yes: i know it's not only Fedora specific, it's the result of throwing
> away working things left and right in the hope making all from scratch and
> get rid of the dirty parts of the past makes things better until realizing
> that dirty parts where the one making a difference and catching all the
> bordercases

Ahh, you've looked at systemd! I publicly backed down from calling
Leonart Pottering four letter words in public after the last little
go-around, precisely because it's too easy and wasn't helping.

You've my sympathies. But you'll get further with scaling it back a
notch or two, at least publicly.
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Josef Bacik]

Being tired doesn't justify acting like my 5 year old. Thanks,

Josef

On September 27, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Reindl Harald  wrote:



Am 27.09.2015 um 19:08 schrieb Josef Bacik:
> This is unnecessarily combative and derogatory to a fellow
> distribution, why are you going out of your way to be mean spirited?

because i am tired of regressions over regressinos from replacements of 
replacements tyring to sell me improvements which aren't ones?

that may work for new users facing "new" things in the next releases as 
new and imporved but that won't work for people using Fedora for many 
years and just say "no, that's not a improvement, it's just a iteration 
and bringing back things which worked perfectly fine before it got 
replaced and improved"

and yes: i know it's not only Fedora specific, it's the result of 
throwing away working things left and right in the hope making all from 
scratch and get rid of the dirty parts of the past makes things better 
until realizing that dirty parts where the one making a difference and 
catching all the bordercases

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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Richard W.M. Jones]

This is quite tiresome.  dnf clearly isn't "completely broken".  It
may have a bug, but the correct place to put that is in Bugzilla.

Rich.

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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Michael Schwendt]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 04:21:08 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

> besides https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1263888 and the 

With all due respect, there's way too much to read in there without clear
comments that explain your thoughts.

Sometimes, full output in a terminal can be self-explaining, but comments
on what exactly you've had in mind when running commends (involving --nodeps
and --force) could be very helpful. 

> ridicolous size of /var/cache/dnf/ in genereal it's unacceptable that 
> "dnf -v update dbmail-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm 
> dbmail-manpages-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm 
> dbmail-tools-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm 
> gmime-2.6.20-7.fc22.20150927.rh.x86_64.rpm" *directly* in the repofolder 
> works (after repeat the command because the bug above) while DNF 
> pretends "nothing to do"
> 
> and YES, "createrepo" was called corerctly by the script filling it for 
> many years now and a "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*" as well as the fact that 
> it's a own repo without mirrors leaves not much questions

Show it then. Show the output of some queries to list the available
updates for the packages you expect to be updated and the already installed
versions.

Instead, what you've shown is updating from local files.

Does dnf see anything at all from your rhsoft-fedora repo?

What have you done to examine "the problem" other than claiming that
createrepo has been run?

Do you try to say that it doesn't see your local repo? Or that it fails
to see some packages only? And yum deprecated works with exactly the same
setup and commands?
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Re: dnf is completly broken

[Reindl Harald]

Am 27.09.2015 um 13:16 schrieb Michael Schwendt:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 04:21:08 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:


besides https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1263888 and the


With all due respect, there's way too much to read in there without clear
comments that explain your thoughts.

Sometimes, full output in a terminal can be self-explaining, but comments
on what exactly you've had in mind when running commends (involving --nodeps
and --force) could be very helpful.


uhm just "dnf update *.rpm"


ridicolous size of /var/cache/dnf/ in genereal it's unacceptable that
"dnf -v update dbmail-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
dbmail-manpages-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
dbmail-tools-3.1.17-3.fc22.20150927.rh.3.1.17.x86_64.rpm
gmime-2.6.20-7.fc22.20150927.rh.x86_64.rpm" *directly* in the repofolder
works (after repeat the command because the bug above) while DNF
pretends "nothing to do"

and YES, "createrepo" was called corerctly by the script filling it for
many years now and a "rm -rf /var/cache/dnf/*" as well as the fact that
it's a own repo without mirrors leaves not much questions


Show it then. Show the output of some queries to list the available
updates for the packages you expect to be updated and the already installed
versions.

Instead, what you've shown is updating from local files.

Does dnf see anything at all from your rhsoft-fedora repo?


surely


What have you done to examine "the problem" other than claiming that
createrepo has been run?

Do you try to say that it doesn't see your local repo? Or that it fails
to see some packages only? And yum deprecated works with exactly the same
setup and commands?


DNF works also with the same setup and commands as far as i can see and 
then it just ignores the two packages built last night only changing 
some compiler flags and the package is always never by definition since 
it's version contains the build-date (anyways, release tag raised too)




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