Re: Stop please

[Michael Schwendt]

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:26:14 +, Andrew Clayton wrote:

> Interesting. In Claws Mail for this message I'm seeing
> 
> From:
> To:
> Subject:
> Date:
> X-Mailer:
> Organization:
> Message-ID:
> 
> (true, they may not all be shown by default)

Preferences > Message View > Text Options > Headers
Claws Mail can be adjusted quite a lot in that area.
Ctrl+H to show all headers.

Various other mail programs also at least displays a few headers,
such as Subject, Date, To and From.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Jens Lody]

Am Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:26:14 +
schrieb Andrew Clayton :

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:36:08 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> 
> > I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
> > client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest
> > users  
> 
> Interesting. In Claws Mail for this message I'm seeing
> 
> From:
> To:
> Subject:
> Date:
> X-Mailer:
> Organization:
> Message-ID:
> 
> (true, they may not all be shown by default)
> 
> > Actually the GMail web interface is the only place I have ever seen
> > email headers. In the web interface there is (or used to be) an
> > option to view the "raw message."  
> 
> Most mail clients should have that option I think (off the top of my
> head at least Claws Mail & Thunderbird do).
> 
> Andrew

At least Claws and Evolution have a "Message -> Mailinglist ->
Unsubscribe" (or similar) menu if you are on a mailinglist mail (with
the appropriate headers), so there is no need to know that these headers
exist.
And additional I get a mailinglist memebrships reminder once per month
with detailed instructions how to change my membership-status, either
per mail or with the browser.

Jens


pgpRzXOt3zT0J.pgp
Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Andrew Clayton]

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:36:08 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:

> I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
> client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users

Interesting. In Claws Mail for this message I'm seeing

From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
X-Mailer:
Organization:
Message-ID:

(true, they may not all be shown by default)

> Actually the GMail web interface is the only place I have ever seen
> email headers. In the web interface there is (or used to be) an option
> to view the "raw message."

Most mail clients should have that option I think (off the top of my
head at least Claws Mail & Thunderbird do).

Andrew
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Reindl Harald]

Am 09.01.2016 um 19:36 schrieb Michael Catanzaro:

On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 08:53 -0500, Mark Bidewell wrote:

Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.


I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users
look there for anything, much less for a way to unsubscribe from a
mailing list


well, because MUA's implement all sort of crap instead *useful* 
functions, otherwise *any* MUA would have a "reply-list" and 
"unsubscribe-list" button based on th email headers


https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/thunderbird/addon/unsubscribe-from-mailing-list/

*any* proper mailing-list system is sending that headers
https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Sudhir Khanger]

On Saturday 09 Jan 2016 12:36:08 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
> client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users
> look there for anything, much less for a way to unsubscribe from a
> mailing list.

That's very hard to believe. You may have over looked it. There are at least 2 
places if not more where source of an email is available in KMail. View>Source 
or right-click email>Source or via shortcut V.

-- 
Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Reindl Harald]

Am 09.01.2016 um 19:46 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:

On Saturday 09 Jan 2016 12:36:08 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote:

I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users
look there for anything, much less for a way to unsubscribe from a
mailing list.


That's very hard to believe. You may have over looked it. There are at least 2
places if not more where source of an email is available in KMail. View>Source
or right-click email>Source or via shortcut V.


it's possible in nearly any mail client
many have even options to show them always

http://www.list-unsubscribe.com/

https://answers.stanford.edu/solution/how-view-full-email-headers

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH19118?viewlocale=en_US=de_AT

http://email.about.com/od/mozillathunderbirdtips/qt/How-to-View-Complete-Message-Headers-in-Mozilla-Thunderbird.htm

https://support.office.com/en-in/article/View-e-mail-message-headers-cd039382-dc6e-4264-ac74-c048563d212c





signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Michael Catanzaro]

On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 08:53 -0500, Mark Bidewell wrote:
> Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
> headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.

I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users
look there for anything, much less for a way to unsubscribe from a
mailing list.

Actually the GMail web interface is the only place I have ever seen
email headers. In the web interface there is (or used to be) an option
to view the "raw message."

Michael
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Michael Schwendt]

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:36:08 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:

> I, Michael Catanzaro, have never in my entire life seen any email
> client display mail headers. It's beyond unreasonable to suggest users
> look there for anything, much less for a way to unsubscribe from a
> mailing list.

The smarter mail client would NOT display those headers, but would offer
features that do something useful based on whether those headers are
found.

For example, Claws Mail offers a "Message > Mailing-List" menu with
entries like "Post", "Unsubscribe", "Help", "View Archive", "Contact
owner".
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 03:00:13PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 08.01.2016 um 14:53 schrieb Mark Bidewell:
> >Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
> >headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.
> 
> what is the purpose of breaking DMARC by add a list-footer pointing to a
> site with no unsubscribe-information
> 
> why can't the list-footer contain that information at all or just be removed
> when it has no real use besides breaking DMARC/DKIM and get quoted by
> careless people making read posts harder?
> 
> FIX THAT HEADERS IN GENERAL - THE "--"-line needs to be "-- " for MUA's
> recognize it as signature and don't quote it all the time

Did you file this bug upstream?

-- 
Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please -> mailto:devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

[Reindl Harald]

Am 08.01.2016 um 05:34 schrieb Michael Catanzaro:

On Thu, 2016-01-07 at 21:27 -0700, Byron Steele wrote:

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.
org


I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*

It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
registering a Fedora account?

Previously the option to unsubscribe was front-and-center when clicking
the link at the bottom of each mail.


by sending the unscubscribe mail to the corerct address
just look at the list headers

List-Unsubscribe:
,




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Reindl Harald]

Am 08.01.2016 um 22:39 schrieb Paul W. Frields:

On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 03:00:13PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:


Am 08.01.2016 um 14:53 schrieb Mark Bidewell:

Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.


what is the purpose of breaking DMARC by add a list-footer pointing to a
site with no unsubscribe-information

why can't the list-footer contain that information at all or just be removed
when it has no real use besides breaking DMARC/DKIM and get quoted by
careless people making read posts harder?

FIX THAT HEADERS IN GENERAL - THE "--"-line needs to be "-- " for MUA's
recognize it as signature and don't quote it all the time


Did you file this bug upstream?


not sure if the list-footer is a upstream thing

for this reply it was not necessary to strip the footer because before 
was your signature with a correct "-- " containg a trailing space at the 
end of the line




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Reindl Harald]

Am 08.01.2016 um 14:53 schrieb Mark Bidewell:

Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.


what is the purpose of breaking DMARC by add a list-footer pointing to a 
site with no unsubscribe-information


why can't the list-footer contain that information at all or just be 
removed when it has no real use besides breaking DMARC/DKIM and get 
quoted by careless people making read posts harder?


FIX THAT HEADERS IN GENERAL - THE "--"-line needs to be "-- " for MUA's 
recognize it as signature and don't quote it all the time


https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel.lists.fedoraproject.org/


BTW thats a great tip on the headers, never know about them until today


every mailing list for decades has that headers



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Mark Bidewell]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:

> On 8 January 2016 at 12:02, Sam Varshavchik  wrote:
> > Samuel Sieb writes:
> >
> >> On 01/07/2016 08:34 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
> >>> list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*
> >>>
> >>> It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
> >>> unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
> >>> registering a Fedora account?
> >>>
> >> There's info in the email headers although if you're not that familiar
> >> with mailing lists that's not exactly discoverable.
> >
> >
> > Robust mail clients can use the RFC 2369 headers to prominently present
> an
> > unsubscribe link when displaying list mail.
> >
>
> Excellent, that's that solved then.
>
> --
> imalone
> http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>

Unfortunately GMail's web interface does not seem to recognize those
headers :(.  So a fair number of uses will have issues.

BTW thats a great tip on the headers, never know about them until today
-- 
Mark Bidewell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/markbidewell
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Sam Varshavchik]

Samuel Sieb writes:


On 01/07/2016 08:34 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:

I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*

It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
registering a Fedora account?

There's info in the email headers although if you're not that familiar with  
mailing lists that's not exactly discoverable.


Robust mail clients can use the RFC 2369 headers to prominently present an  
unsubscribe link when displaying list mail.





pgpn5LuTvgypZ.pgp
Description: PGP signature
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Ian Malone]

On 8 January 2016 at 12:02, Sam Varshavchik  wrote:
> Samuel Sieb writes:
>
>> On 01/07/2016 08:34 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>>>
>>> I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
>>> list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*
>>>
>>> It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
>>> unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
>>> registering a Fedora account?
>>>
>> There's info in the email headers although if you're not that familiar
>> with mailing lists that's not exactly discoverable.
>
>
> Robust mail clients can use the RFC 2369 headers to prominently present an
> unsubscribe link when displaying list mail.
>

Excellent, that's that solved then.

-- 
imalone
http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Michael Catanzaro]

On Thu, 2016-01-07 at 21:27 -0700, Byron Steele wrote:
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.
> org

I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*

It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
registering a Fedora account?

Previously the option to unsubscribe was front-and-center when clicking
the link at the bottom of each mail.

Michael
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Stop please

[Byron Steele]

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Samuel Sieb]

On 01/07/2016 08:34 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:

I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our mailing
list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*

It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way to
unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
registering a Fedora account?

There's info in the email headers although if you're not that familiar 
with mailing lists that's not exactly discoverable.

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Stop please

[Link Dupont]

On Thu, 2016-01-07 at 20:45 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 01/07/2016 08:34 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > I decided I would instruct Byron in how to unsubscribe from our
> > mailing
> > list, when I discovered *I don't know how.*
> > 
> > It seems with HyperKitty we no longer have an easily-accessible way
> > to
> > unsubscribe from our mailing lists. How can this be done without
> > registering a Fedora account?
> > 
> There's info in the email headers although if you're not that
> familiar 
> with mailing lists that's not exactly discoverable.
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.
> org

Evolution detects those and creates convenient menu entries. Message ->
Mailing List -> Unsubscribe from List.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org