Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 08:55:06AM -0700, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: - pm-utils DONE retired in master Is that good enough? Should systemd obsolete it, too? I thought the whole point of this thread was that pm-utils was actively dangerous now, so shouldn't we actively remove it from users' systems? I wasn't dangerous, just confusing and obsolete. You raise a good point. Nevertheless, systemd does not provide command-line compatiblity to pm-utils, so I don't think we can obsolete it. Someone might be using it in their scripts, etc. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
Am 16.04.2015 um 14:31 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 08:55:06AM -0700, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: - pm-utils DONE retired in master Is that good enough? Should systemd obsolete it, too? I thought the whole point of this thread was that pm-utils was actively dangerous now, so shouldn't we actively remove it from users' systems? I wasn't dangerous, just confusing and obsolete. You raise a good point. Nevertheless, systemd does not provide command-line compatiblity to pm-utils, so I don't think we can obsolete it. Someone might be using it in their scripts, etc. well, and that is bad back in the good old days replacements typically where commandline compatible and worked as drop-in replacement, these days people all day long are bothered with the new shiny things need work left and right from everybody and often the improvements are not worth the time wasted by thousands of people signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbys...@in.waw.pl wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 08:55:06AM -0700, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: - pm-utils DONE retired in master Is that good enough? Should systemd obsolete it, too? I thought the whole point of this thread was that pm-utils was actively dangerous now, so shouldn't we actively remove it from users' systems? I wasn't dangerous, just confusing and obsolete. You raise a good point. Nevertheless, systemd does not provide command-line compatiblity to pm-utils, so I don't think we can obsolete it. Someone might be using it in their scripts, etc. Just replace it with wrapper scripts that use systemctl under the hood. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:00:52AM -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote: On 04/13/2015 11:34 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: OK, so swap 2x memory seems excessive. Actually swap with the same as memory should work *most* of the time. There's no guarantee that any amount swap will be enough, since it could all be filled by the time hibernation is requested, but we should try to cover most normal usage. But considering that swap will be slow on HDD, so users will most likely avoid using more than a small amount, and SDD are small, so it's expensive to provide bigger swap, the default that anaconda uses seems OK. An exception is for computers with small amount of RAM (= 2GB?). There swaps is more likely to be filled and the default size for swap should imho be higher than the amount of RAM. Exactly! remember that a typical disk speed is few tens of MB/s, i.e. about 1 GB/min. I came to the conclusion that anything more than 4GB is just counterproductive. Large swap just deceives us into thinking that we can run jobs larger than the physical memory but that is really not the case, just like Seymour Cray said [1]. The amount of swap space used should be controlled by vm.swappiness sysctl and kernel algorithms, not by making the swap small. Maybe swap space should simply be max(4GB, $PhysicalMemory). Actually, isn't 'swap to filesystem' still an option? if so, maybe swap should be a constant 4GB, and hibernation should create an appropriately sized file on the fly, join it to the swap and use both. I think it should be other way around: swap partition big enough to hibernate, i.e. the size of RAM, and a dynamnically sized swap file if more swap space is needed for non-hibernation data. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so we might just as well use it by default. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
- Original Message - On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:26:14AM -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote: - Original Message - On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so we might just as well use it by default. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and the way we do hibernation is broken. Can you be more specific? Do you consider hibernate-to-swap-partition unacceptable? I think that conflating memory-to-disk swap space with I can hibernate my machine is unacceptable. We need a new partition type that Anaconda would setup, or a whitelist of laptops with firmwares that support rapid start (and again, Anaconda to set it up), or use a temporary file of any sort to store the hibernation data. If my machine has 8 gigs of memory, I don't want to need 8 gigs plus of swap to be able to hibernate it, when run away processes can make my machine unusable for hours if they start hitting that swap. Hybrid sleep is already the default on low battery with newer versions of UPower. Yeah, I wasn't aware of that. This should be a good thing. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 04/15/2015 09:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: Maybe swap space should simply be max(4GB, $PhysicalMemory). Actually, isn't 'swap to filesystem' still an option? if so, maybe swap should be a constant 4GB, and hibernation should create an appropriately sized file on the fly, join it to the swap and use both. I think it should be other way around: swap partition big enough to hibernate, i.e. the size of RAM, and a dynamnically sized swap file if more swap space is needed for non-hibernation data. You're right, that seems like a cool way to do it---a sparse /thin-provisioned file that's recreated on every boot. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 04/15/2015 11:02 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: I think that conflating memory-to-disk swap space with I can hibernate my machine is unacceptable. We need a new partition type that Anaconda would setup, or a whitelist of laptops with firmwares that support rapid start (and again, Anaconda to set it up), or use a temporary file of any sort to store the hibernation data. If my machine has 8 gigs of memory, I don't want to need 8 gigs plus of swap to be able to hibernate it, when run away processes can make my machine unusable for hours if they start hitting that swap. Elsewhere in this thread Zbyszek suggested a RAM-sized swap partition for hibernation, plus a filesystem-resident swap file that grows as needed. If such file could be recreated as a sparse / thin-provisioned object on boot it would be pretty slick. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:26:14AM -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote: - Original Message - On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so we might just as well use it by default. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and the way we do hibernation is broken. Can you be more specific? Do you consider hibernate-to-swap-partition unacceptable? Hybrid sleep is already the default on low battery with newer versions of UPower. Yeah, I wasn't aware of that. This should be a good thing. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
- Original Message - On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so we might just as well use it by default. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and the way we do hibernation is broken. Hybrid sleep is already the default on low battery with newer versions of UPower. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:09 AM, Jaroslav Skarvada jskar...@redhat.com wrote:
- Original Message -
On 01.04.2015 10:29, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned.
Do the pm-utils maintainers/upstream know this?
Hi,
I am pm-utils maintainer. I own some other legacy packages and
I am retiring them only if there are good reasons for it
(e.g. unfixed security bugs, breakage, etc.), because there may
be still users using such packages / depending on their functionality.
Regarding pm-utils, most of the functionality is currently handled
by systemd. If there is anybody still using it, I think it shouldn't be
hard to migrate. Also I think this package may be quite confusing
for newcomers. Upstream said it's dead, so there are probably
good reasons to retire. But currently there are the following
packages in rawhide depending on pm-utils:
cdm
kdebase3
Same as with the 'cdm'.
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/kdebase3.git/commit/?id=2221c4
+
kdebase3.spec
Patch26: kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
%define _with_suspend 1
%{?_with_suspend:%patch26 -p1 -b .suspend}
---
kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch | 4 ++--
1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
diff --git a/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch b/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
index 0462543..e1a5d0a 100644
--- a/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
+++ b/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
@@ -62,8 +62,8 @@
+void KSMShutdownDlg::slotSuspend()
+{
+switch ( suspendType ) {
-+ case SUSPEND_TYPE_HIBERNATE: system(/usr/bin/pm-hibernate); break;
-+ case SUSPEND_TYPE_STANDBY: system(/usr/bin/pm-suspend); break;
++ case SUSPEND_TYPE_HIBERNATE: system(/usr/bin/systemctl hibernate);
break;
++ case SUSPEND_TYPE_STANDBY: system(/usr/bin/systemctl suspend);
break;
+}
+reject();
+}
...
I will drop pm-utils when resolved
regards
Jaroslav
And that's it.
- cdm DONE
- kdebase3 DONE
- wicd DONE
- pm-utils DONE
Thanks,
retired in master
Is that good enough? Should systemd obsolete it, too? I thought the
whole point of this thread was that pm-utils was actively dangerous
now, so shouldn't we actively remove it from users' systems?
--Andy
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Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbys...@in.waw.pl wrote: I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. At least on Linux I'm pretty sure the way swapfile works is it only asks the fs at mkswap time what the contiguous blocks are for that file. From that point on swapping to the swap file directly accesses those blocks, not via the fs. And that's why swapfiles don't work with either LVM thinp LVs or Btrfs or NFS since there's zero assurance the swapfile will be where it was at mkswap time, let alone contiguous. There's an NFS related patch to make this work that the Btrfs folks were going to leverage, which I think works now as long as no snapshots of the fs tree the swapfile is in are made. As soon as there's a snapshot, both the original and the snapshot become subject to COW. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Great. I assume though that this requires some minimum swap (partition) size though? So the installer bug needs to be reopened, and set it to depend on kernel hibernation working correctly. -- Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:26:14AM -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote: - Original Message - On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so we might just as well use it by default. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been hapenning... What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does protect your data. Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and the way we do hibernation is broken. Can you be more specific? Do you consider hibernate-to-swap-partition unacceptable? I think that conflating memory-to-disk swap space with I can hibernate my machine is unacceptable. We need a new partition type that Anaconda would setup, or a whitelist of laptops with firmwares that support rapid start (and again, Anaconda to set it up), or use a temporary file of any sort to store the hibernation data. I'm willing to bet there's an incongruence between IRST and multiboot. If my machine has 8 gigs of memory, I don't want to need 8 gigs plus of swap to be able to hibernate it, when run away processes can make my machine unusable for hours if they start hitting that swap. Googling brings up the swapspace project for dynamically creating swapfiles. However, for Btrfs and LVM thinp installs, I think the base swap code needs revisiting to defer rw through the fs rather than assuming direct rw is workable. -- Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
- Original Message - On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 12:39:04AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: Yeah, hibernation is automatically invoked when battery runs low Is this actually the default behaviour? We call either HybridSleep, Hibernate or PowerOff, depending on what the system offers, and in that order: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/src/linux/up-backend.c#n383 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 12:39:04AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: Yeah, hibernation is automatically invoked when battery runs low Is this actually the default behaviour? -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
- Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. I requested a hibernation partition that wasn't a swap partition: https://wiki.gnome.org/BastienNocera/KernelWishlist but it was deemed unnecessary by kernel devs (or work-aroundable maybe): http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1810083/focus=1813873 We need to fix the kernel first, then we can ask for support in Anaconda. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 04/13/2015 11:34 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: OK, so swap 2x memory seems excessive. Actually swap with the same as memory should work *most* of the time. There's no guarantee that any amount swap will be enough, since it could all be filled by the time hibernation is requested, but we should try to cover most normal usage. But considering that swap will be slow on HDD, so users will most likely avoid using more than a small amount, and SDD are small, so it's expensive to provide bigger swap, the default that anaconda uses seems OK. An exception is for computers with small amount of RAM (= 2GB?). There swaps is more likely to be filled and the default size for swap should imho be higher than the amount of RAM. Exactly! remember that a typical disk speed is few tens of MB/s, i.e. about 1 GB/min. I came to the conclusion that anything more than 4GB is just counterproductive. Large swap just deceives us into thinking that we can run jobs larger than the physical memory but that is really not the case, just like Seymour Cray said [1]. Maybe swap space should simply be max(4GB, $PhysicalMemory). Actually, isn't 'swap to filesystem' still an option? if so, maybe swap should be a constant 4GB, and hibernation should create an appropriately sized file on the fly, join it to the swap and use both. The details can be worked out. But I don't understand the justification for closing of the bug: (In reply to David Lehman from comment #1) Anaconda does not automatically configure systems for hibernation at this time. Hibernation is important for many use cases, including graphical environments, and anaconda should support them. Absolutely agree. [1] http://hackersays.com/68b2b7 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera bnoc...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should really be independent of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be used by the applications so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) Too much swap and the (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical violence when your machine is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th Firefox tab. Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. Recently, Windows on UEFI systems with the proper hardware uses Intel Rapid Start [1], which is firmware managed suspend-to-disk. It depends on both a unique partition and SSD, and by default a shutdown uses this. Cold boots are really fast, like ~1.5 seconds. Faster than reboots. Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. Because of this, I never do shutdowns. I can always rely on just closing the laptop lid to get suspend-to-RAM and if necessary (time or low battery) the system wakes and suspends-to-disk. I can't rely on suspend-to-RAM on linux because I can't guarantee I'll remember to wake it and do a proper shutdown before the battery dies. I'd put suspend-to-disk in the same category as video problems. It's yet another reason to just not fight things, give up, and use what works which is either Windows or OS X, and put Linux in a VM. *shrug* I requested a hibernation partition that wasn't a swap partition: https://wiki.gnome.org/BastienNocera/KernelWishlist but it was deemed unnecessary by kernel devs (or work-aroundable maybe): http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1810083/focus=1813873 We need to fix the kernel first, then we can ask for support in Anaconda. If kernel developers don't see working suspend-to-disk to be important, then in my view Linux on the desktop is just short of pointless and is just treading water with the existing behavior. The two other OS's simply do this way way better and more reliably to the point it's bulletproof and completely trustworthy. How is this working on Chromebooks? [1] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26022.html -- Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 04:39:38PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. Yeah, hibernation is automatically invoked when battery runs low (and is generally useful in other cases), so we should provide enough swap for it to work. With moern disk sizes 4GB one way or the other is hardly noticable, so it doesn't make sense to economize. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, 2015-04-14 at 00:39 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 04:39:38PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. Yeah, hibernation is automatically invoked when battery runs low (and is generally useful in other cases), so we should provide enough swap for it to work. With moern disk sizes 4GB one way or the other is hardly noticable, 'Modern disk sizes' like the 128GB (that's GB, not GiB) that's standard on the basic XPS 13 developer edition model, fr'instance? http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 07:20:46PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2015-04-14 at 00:39 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 04:39:38PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. suggested swap for laptop seems low https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default swap size. Yeah, hibernation is automatically invoked when battery runs low (and is generally useful in other cases), so we should provide enough swap for it to work. With moern disk sizes 4GB one way or the other is hardly noticable, 'Modern disk sizes' like the 128GB (that's GB, not GiB) that's standard on the basic XPS 13 developer edition model, fr'instance? http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd That one's tough. Disk is less than 15 times memory size (30 or 60 for the higher end models). OK, so swap 2x memory seems excessive. Actually swap with the same as memory should work *most* of the time. There's no guarantee that any amount swap will be enough, since it could all be filled by the time hibernation is requested, but we should try to cover most normal usage. But considering that swap will be slow on HDD, so users will most likely avoid using more than a small amount, and SDD are small, so it's expensive to provide bigger swap, the default that anaconda uses seems OK. An exception is for computers with small amount of RAM (= 2GB?). There swaps is more likely to be filled and the default size for swap should imho be higher than the amount of RAM. The details can be worked out. But I don't understand the justification for closing of the bug: (In reply to David Lehman from comment #1) Anaconda does not automatically configure systems for hibernation at this time. Hibernation is important for many use cases, including graphical environments, and anaconda should support them. Zbyszek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 04/13/2015 08:34 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: The details can be worked out. But I don't understand the justification for closing of the bug: (In reply to David Lehman from comment #1) Anaconda does not automatically configure systems for hibernation at this time. Hibernation is important for many use cases, including graphical environments, and anaconda should support them. Especially since Gnome by default hibernates on low battery. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
- Original Message -
On 01.04.2015 10:29, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned.
Do the pm-utils maintainers/upstream know this?
Hi,
I am pm-utils maintainer. I own some other legacy packages and
I am retiring them only if there are good reasons for it
(e.g. unfixed security bugs, breakage, etc.), because there may
be still users using such packages / depending on their functionality.
Regarding pm-utils, most of the functionality is currently handled
by systemd. If there is anybody still using it, I think it shouldn't be
hard to migrate. Also I think this package may be quite confusing
for newcomers. Upstream said it's dead, so there are probably
good reasons to retire. But currently there are the following
packages in rawhide depending on pm-utils:
cdm
kdebase3
Same as with the 'cdm'.
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/kdebase3.git/commit/?id=2221c4
+
kdebase3.spec
Patch26: kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
%define _with_suspend 1
%{?_with_suspend:%patch26 -p1 -b .suspend}
---
kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch | 4 ++--
1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
diff --git a/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch b/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
index 0462543..e1a5d0a 100644
--- a/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
+++ b/kdebase-3.5.5-suspend.patch
@@ -62,8 +62,8 @@
+void KSMShutdownDlg::slotSuspend()
+{
+switch ( suspendType ) {
-+ case SUSPEND_TYPE_HIBERNATE: system(/usr/bin/pm-hibernate); break;
-+ case SUSPEND_TYPE_STANDBY: system(/usr/bin/pm-suspend); break;
++ case SUSPEND_TYPE_HIBERNATE: system(/usr/bin/systemctl hibernate);
break;
++ case SUSPEND_TYPE_STANDBY: system(/usr/bin/systemctl suspend);
break;
+}
+reject();
+}
...
I will drop pm-utils when resolved
regards
Jaroslav
And that's it.
- cdm DONE
- kdebase3 DONE
- wicd DONE
- pm-utils DONE
Thanks,
retired in master
regards
Jaroslav
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Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
Fixed in rawhide now.
Thanks,
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:36:50AM +0200, poma wrote:
On 01.04.2015 10:29, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned.
Do the pm-utils maintainers/upstream know this?
Hi,
I am pm-utils maintainer. I own some other legacy packages and
I am retiring them only if there are good reasons for it
(e.g. unfixed security bugs, breakage, etc.), because there may
be still users using such packages / depending on their functionality.
Regarding pm-utils, most of the functionality is currently handled
by systemd. If there is anybody still using it, I think it shouldn't be
hard to migrate. Also I think this package may be quite confusing
for newcomers. Upstream said it's dead, so there are probably
good reasons to retire. But currently there are the following
packages in rawhide depending on pm-utils:
cdm
kdebase3
wicd
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wicd-devel/wicd/experimental/view/head:/INSTALL#L13
8. pm-utils (optional for suspend/resume integration)
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wicd-devel/wicd/experimental/view/head:/setup.py#L130
('no-install-pmutils', None, 'do not install the pm-utils hooks'),
diff --git a/wicd.spec b/wicd.spec
index a5dcaf0..bc7afe6 100644
--- a/wicd.spec
+++ b/wicd.spec
@@ -36,7 +36,6 @@ BuildRequires: desktop-file-utils
BuildRequires: pkgconfig
BuildRequires: systemd-units
-Requires:pm-utils = 1.2.4
Requires:%{name}-common = %{version}-%{release}
%description
@@ -140,10 +139,10 @@ rm -f po/ast.po
--share %{_datadir}/wicd \
--etc %{_sysconfdir}/wicd \
--bin %{_bindir} \
---pmutils %{_libdir}/pm-utils/sleep.d \
--log %{_localstatedir}/log \
--systemd %{_systemd_unitdir} \
---no-install-init
+--no-install-init \
+--no-install-pmutils
%{__python} setup.py build
%{__python} setup.py compile_translations
@@ -214,7 +213,7 @@ gtk-update-icon-cache %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor
/dev/null || :
%files
%defattr(-,root,root,-)
-%{_libdir}/pm-utils/sleep.d/55wicd
+%{_datadir}/autostart/wicd-tray.desktop
%files common -f %{name}.lang
%defattr(-,root,root,-)
I will drop pm-utils when resolved
regards
Jaroslav
--
David Cantrell dcantr...@redhat.com
Manager, Installer Engineering Team
Red Hat, Inc. | Westford, MA | EST5EDT
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Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned. Do the pm-utils maintainers/upstream know this? Hi, I am pm-utils maintainer. I own some other legacy packages and I am retiring them only if there are good reasons for it (e.g. unfixed security bugs, breakage, etc.), because there may be still users using such packages / depending on their functionality. Regarding pm-utils, most of the functionality is currently handled by systemd. If there is anybody still using it, I think it shouldn't be hard to migrate. Also I think this package may be quite confusing for newcomers. Upstream said it's dead, so there are probably good reasons to retire. But currently there are the following packages in rawhide depending on pm-utils: cdm kdebase3 wicd I will drop pm-utils when resolved regards Jaroslav -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 08:57:56AM +0200, Till Maas wrote: There the problem is, that dracut runs a fsck check before deciding whether to resume. This can result in a big file system corruption, since the kernel had a different idea of the file system state after resuming from hibernation that there really is. thanks for spotting that. I have seen the resulting fs corruption and was suspecting something like that but was unable to investigate the details. Richard --- Name and OpenPGP keys available from pgp key servers -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
[cc maintainer] On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 04:37:57PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 15:42, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: Can/should we just obsolete / retire it? Agreed. It probably still has some uses, but it's just too confusing to have it around. Zbyszek I tried to, but I don't have enough super powers. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, 30.03.15 08:57, Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) wrote: Hi, it seems to be that me have a major problem of core package maintainers coordinating features in Fedora. See for example: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1174945 There the problem is, that dracut runs a fsck check before deciding whether to resume. This can result in a big file system corruption, since the kernel had a different idea of the file system state after resuming from hibernation that there really is. The problem has several core players that do not seem to communicate: - dracut which uses systemd and showed this problem in F21 (I did not notice it in F20) - systemd: - might have changed things in F21 to break resuming - Does only parse the kernel command line, does not parse the options that dracut gathers from the system during initramfs generation - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) - anaconda, which does not add a resume= kernel command line option when installing a system Therefore please coordinate with others if you maintain a key component for a core distribution feature and look for other items that need to be adjusted. systemd 217 introduced support for doing the hibernation resume logic in the initrd on its own without any external support, see the man page systemd-hibernate-resume(8). This does not require any explicit support in Dracut. pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:40:58PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: systemd 217 introduced support for doing the hibernation resume logic in the initrd on its own without any external support, see the man page systemd-hibernate-resume(8). This does not require any explicit support in Dracut. What does this tell us? Fedora 21 uses systemd 216 according to the RPM version. Does this already include all changes from 217? Why was a patch for dracut necessary to get it work better? Is it supposed to run without a resume= kernel parameter? If it needs one, then changes are needed, because dracut stores the resume information in the initramfs itself instead of using the kernel command line. pm-hibernate is obsolete as others already mentioned. Do the pm-utils maintainers/upstream know this? Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
Hi, it seems to be that me have a major problem of core package maintainers coordinating features in Fedora. See for example: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1174945 There the problem is, that dracut runs a fsck check before deciding whether to resume. This can result in a big file system corruption, since the kernel had a different idea of the file system state after resuming from hibernation that there really is. The problem has several core players that do not seem to communicate: - dracut which uses systemd and showed this problem in F21 (I did not notice it in F20) - systemd: - might have changed things in F21 to break resuming - Does only parse the kernel command line, does not parse the options that dracut gathers from the system during initramfs generation - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) - anaconda, which does not add a resume= kernel command line option when installing a system Therefore please coordinate with others if you maintain a key component for a core distribution feature and look for other items that need to be adjusted. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 30 March 2015 at 07:57, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote: - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) pm-hibernate should have been removed from Fedora a long time ago. I don't know what drags pm-utils onto the default install but it should have died years ago. Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 03/30/2015 11:08 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 07:57, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote: - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) pm-hibernate should have been removed from Fedora a long time ago. I don't know what drags pm-utils onto the default install but it should have died years ago. And it's now gone from Workstation: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=b8a057a7d8a3a77f7b657bf9e3620d1682d104e9 -- Kalev -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Kalev Lember kalevlem...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 11:08 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 07:57, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote: - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) pm-hibernate should have been removed from Fedora a long time ago. I don't know what drags pm-utils onto the default install but it should have died years ago. And it's now gone from Workstation: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=b8a057a7d8a3a77f7b657bf9e3620d1682d104e9 Can/should we just obsolete / retire it? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
Luckily, resume from hybernation does not work at all for me on Rawhide: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1199708 Vít Dne 30.3.2015 v 08:57 Till Maas napsal(a): Hi, it seems to be that me have a major problem of core package maintainers coordinating features in Fedora. See for example: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1174945 There the problem is, that dracut runs a fsck check before deciding whether to resume. This can result in a big file system corruption, since the kernel had a different idea of the file system state after resuming from hibernation that there really is. The problem has several core players that do not seem to communicate: - dracut which uses systemd and showed this problem in F21 (I did not notice it in F20) - systemd: - might have changed things in F21 to break resuming - Does only parse the kernel command line, does not parse the options that dracut gathers from the system during initramfs generation - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) - anaconda, which does not add a resume= kernel command line option when installing a system Therefore please coordinate with others if you maintain a key component for a core distribution feature and look for other items that need to be adjusted. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 30 March 2015 at 11:21, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski domi...@greysector.net wrote: Is systemctl hibernate/suspend the official replacement for pm-hibernate/suspend now? Very much so :) Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On Monday, 30 March 2015 at 11:08, Richard Hughes wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 07:57, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote: - provides hibernation support via systemctl hibernate, which is also what pm-hibernate does (why do we have two tools for the same core task?) pm-hibernate should have been removed from Fedora a long time ago. I don't know what drags pm-utils onto the default install but it should have died years ago. Is systemctl hibernate/suspend the official replacement for pm-hibernate/suspend now? Regards, -- Fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Rathann RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org Faith manages. -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:Confessions and Lamentations -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: hibernation support - lack of distro-wide coordination between systemd, dracut, anaconda, pm-utils and maybe more?
On 30 March 2015 at 15:42, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: Can/should we just obsolete / retire it? I tried to, but I don't have enough super powers. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
