Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Kevin Kofler]

Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> - simple sound (aplay, espeak) failing after running fancy synthesized
> sound apps (Qsynth): I'd need guidance what to test to find the hidden
> state that causes that.

If you change the Qsynth settings to use PulseAudio rather than JACK for 
output, that problem should go away.

Alternatively, you may want to make the simple apps use JACK instead. Espeak 
can be built with support for PortAudio, which works with JACK, but 
unfortunately, the Fedora package is no longer compiled with that support 
because of the dependencies it drags in, so you will have to recompile it. 
(It can be compiled with both PortAudio and PulseAudio support, switchable 
at runtime.) For aplay, try: http://jackaudio.org/faq/routing_alsa.html

Kevin Kofler
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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Guido Aulisi]

> Probably not.  This bug?:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1364332
> Obviously the above bug would need fixing.

Yes that's it.
But I found that hard limits are correcly set, so you should only do:
ulimit -r  -l 

and start jackd from the command line
Then you can still use qjackctl which connects to the running jackd.
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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[J. Bruce Fields]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 01:43:38PM +0100, Guido Aulisi wrote:
> IMHO Jack is a must for professional audio, because of its low latency
> and connection facility.
> You should run it with realtime scheduler and high priority, and in
> F24 there was a problem with systemd not configuring correct limits.
> I don't know if this problem has been corrected now.

Probably not.  This bug?:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1364332

> 2016-11-29 21:19 GMT+01:00 Przemek Klosowski :
> > On 11/29/2016 12:58 PM, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
> >
> > I thought most of those music apps required jack to run--are you running
> > jack or not?  If you are, then it's probably just the usual
> > jack/pulseaudio conflicts.  Which Fedora seems set up to fix, but for
> > seem reason the fix doesn't work; I filed a bug here:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390043
> >
> > I actually stopped using jackd because I felt it introduced more 'hidden
> > state' problems, and I was hobbling along with Pulse---I don't think jackd
> > is an absolute requirement. I don't want to mess around with setup every
> > time before running a music app, so maybe the way to go is to just run jackd
> > all the time?

Obviously the above bug would need fixing.

I doubt that's the only thing preventing jackd from running all the
time.  I think there may have been some cost in CPU time?

--b.
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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Guido Aulisi]

IMHO Jack is a must for professional audio, because of its low latency
and connection facility.
You should run it with realtime scheduler and high priority, and in
F24 there was a problem with systemd not configuring correct limits.
I don't know if this problem has been corrected now.

2016-11-29 21:19 GMT+01:00 Przemek Klosowski :
> On 11/29/2016 12:58 PM, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
>
> I thought most of those music apps required jack to run--are you running
> jack or not?  If you are, then it's probably just the usual
> jack/pulseaudio conflicts.  Which Fedora seems set up to fix, but for
> seem reason the fix doesn't work; I filed a bug here:
>
>   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390043
>
> I actually stopped using jackd because I felt it introduced more 'hidden
> state' problems, and I was hobbling along with Pulse---I don't think jackd
> is an absolute requirement. I don't want to mess around with setup every
> time before running a music app, so maybe the way to go is to just run jackd
> all the time?
>
>
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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Przemek Klosowski]

On 11/29/2016 12:58 PM, J. Bruce Fields wrote:

I thought most of those music apps required jack to run--are you running
jack or not?  If you are, then it's probably just the usual
jack/pulseaudio conflicts.  Which Fedora seems set up to fix, but for
seem reason the fix doesn't work; I filed a bug here:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390043


I actually stopped using jackd because I felt it introduced more 'hidden 
state' problems, and I was hobbling along with Pulse---I don't think 
jackd is an absolute requirement. I don't want to mess around with setup 
every time before running a music app, so maybe the way to go is to just 
run jackd all the time?


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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Germano Massullo]

Recently Ardour 4 has been added to Fedora repositories (without video
support due legal problems). You may want to give a look to it
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/ardour4/
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Re: state of advanced audio in Fedora

[J. Bruce Fields]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:42:06PM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> I was always impressed with the amount and quality of audio software in
> Linux. When it all works, and is driven by someone who knows what they're
> doing, it's essentially a high-end DAW production environment. If it all
> worked smoothly, I am sure it could be one of Linux and Fedora showcases.
> 
> I am a musical dilettante, so my attempts have been perhaps haphazard, but I
> had a mixed luck: I was able to get everything to run, but the setup seemed
> very brittle. I was not very successful debugging the problems because the
> audio chain is pretty complex, what with the raw devices, ALSA, PulseAudio
> and Jackd having overlapping roles, and lots of obsolete and conflicting
> information on the web. I decided to write to the development list in the
> hope of starting a technical discussion that would result in either
> technical and/or configuration fixes, or at least some documentation, that I
> could perhaps help develop.
> 
> I have been using the following programs:
> 
> play/aplay  simple .wav players
> espeak   speech synthesizer
> Qsynth/fluidsynth   .midi players/synthesizers
> audacity sound editor
> pianobooster  keyboard play-along teaching tool
> Rosegarden w/lilypond music editor
> Hydrogen   drum synthesizer
> Yoshimi  synthesizer
> rakarrack   guitar effect processor
> 
> As I said, I was able to use all of them successfully, but I had problems
> integrating them and keeping them up and running in the long term. I wonder
> if I am doing something wrong, or are there technical issues that I'm
> running into, currently on Fedora 25 but also on previous versions.
> 
> Obviously, out of the box, simple sound obviously works: I can aplay a .wav
> file, espeak works, and some of the synthesizers like audacity and hydrogen
> simply work without any preconditions.
> Other audio programs require starting Qsynth first: that seems to be the
> case for Rosegarden, Yoshimi and pianobooster. What is puzzling is that
> there seems to be a lot of hidden state: after running Qsynth for a while,
> the simple sound (aplay, espeak) tend to no longer work: they hang without
> producing any sound, even though Qsynth is no longer running. I tried
> stracing them, but they just go into nanosleep() busy loops on internal file
> descriptors, so it's not clear what exactly they're blocking on. I ran into
> one glitch where qsynth somehow inserted a .wav file as a soundfont in the
> configuration file, which prevented it from working subsequently (I had to
> delete the ~/.config/rncbc.org/Qsynth.conf file).
> 
> I am planning to log some bugzilla reports, but I am not sure against what
> subsystems: is it ALSA, or PulseAudio, or Gnome/pavucontrol, or Qsynth.
> Specifically, I'd like to address the following issues:
> 
> - simple sound (aplay, espeak) failing after running fancy synthesized sound
> apps (Qsynth): I'd need guidance what to test to find the hidden state that
> causes that.
> 
> - fancy sound apps (Rosegarden/pianobooster) silently failing without the
> synthesizer (Qsynth) running first. I'd like to discuss what could be done
> to at least produce some error messages directing users to set up
> synthesizers first, or maybe to automatically start the required
> synthesizers.

I thought most of those music apps required jack to run--are you running
jack or not?  If you are, then it's probably just the usual
jack/pulseaudio conflicts.  Which Fedora seems set up to fix, but for
seem reason the fix doesn't work; I filed a bug here:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390043

Agreed that the Fedora music stuff seems very promising but a bit
frustrating to get set up in practice.  It'd be nice to get some of
these problems sorted out.

I'm an amateur musician more interested in live performance--I use my
laptop as a sound module for organ/piano/synth sounds played from a midi
controller keyboard.

--b.
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state of advanced audio in Fedora

[Przemek Klosowski]

I was always impressed with the amount and quality of audio software in 
Linux. When it all works, and is driven by someone who knows what 
they're doing, it's essentially a high-end DAW production environment. 
If it all worked smoothly, I am sure it could be one of Linux and Fedora 
showcases.


I am a musical dilettante, so my attempts have been perhaps haphazard, 
but I had a mixed luck: I was able to get everything to run, but the 
setup seemed very brittle. I was not very successful debugging the 
problems because the audio chain is pretty complex, what with the raw 
devices, ALSA, PulseAudio and Jackd having overlapping roles, and lots 
of obsolete and conflicting information on the web. I decided to write 
to the development list in the hope of starting a technical discussion 
that would result in either technical and/or configuration fixes, or at 
least some documentation, that I could perhaps help develop.


I have been using the following programs:

play/aplay  simple .wav players
espeak   speech synthesizer
Qsynth/fluidsynth   .midi players/synthesizers
audacity sound editor
pianobooster  keyboard play-along teaching tool
Rosegarden w/lilypond music editor
Hydrogen   drum synthesizer
Yoshimi  synthesizer
rakarrack   guitar effect processor

As I said, I was able to use all of them successfully, but I had 
problems integrating them and keeping them up and running in the long 
term. I wonder if I am doing something wrong, or are there technical 
issues that I'm running into, currently on Fedora 25 but also on 
previous versions.


Obviously, out of the box, simple sound obviously works: I can aplay a 
.wav file, espeak works, and some of the synthesizers like audacity and 
hydrogen simply work without any preconditions.
Other audio programs require starting Qsynth first: that seems to be the 
case for Rosegarden, Yoshimi and pianobooster. What is puzzling is that 
there seems to be a lot of hidden state: after running Qsynth for a 
while, the simple sound (aplay, espeak) tend to no longer work: they 
hang without producing any sound, even though Qsynth is no longer 
running. I tried stracing them, but they just go into nanosleep() busy 
loops on internal file descriptors, so it's not clear what exactly 
they're blocking on. I ran into one glitch where qsynth somehow inserted 
a .wav file as a soundfont in the configuration file, which prevented it 
from working subsequently (I had to delete the 
~/.config/rncbc.org/Qsynth.conf file).


I am planning to log some bugzilla reports, but I am not sure against 
what subsystems: is it ALSA, or PulseAudio, or Gnome/pavucontrol, or 
Qsynth. Specifically, I'd like to address the following issues:


- simple sound (aplay, espeak) failing after running fancy synthesized 
sound apps (Qsynth): I'd need guidance what to test to find the hidden 
state that causes that.


- fancy sound apps (Rosegarden/pianobooster) silently failing without 
the synthesizer (Qsynth) running first. I'd like to discuss what could 
be done to at least produce some error messages directing users to set 
up synthesizers first, or maybe to automatically start the required 
synthesizers.



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