Fwd: Staffing of an OLPC Booth at PyCon, volunteers needed

[Edward Cherlin]

This makes three for the OLPC booth at PyCon.

Ed Cherlin
Mike Fletcher
Karen Smith

Others may put their hands up.

What does PyCon need in order to arrange for our exhibitor passes?


-- Forwarded message --
From: Karen T. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Subject: RE: Staffing of an OLPC Booth at PyCon, volunteers needed
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Mike/Edward -

 I wanted to update you on my availability for an OLPC booth at Pycon. I can
 be there for Saturday daytime, something like 10A - 4P. Does that sound
 about right? I unfortunately can't make it on Friday. My husband is having
 knee surgery that day (freak bending accident, we are getting so old, LOL)
 and it just wouldn't be wifely of me to be at a conference instead of
 attending to his every need.

 I will only come to the exhibit floor (and hallways surrounding) so I will
 not be attending any part of the conference - does that make it easier to
 get me a pass? I probably couldn't do it if it required more personal cash
 outlay than gas/parking, though I don't mind contacting Carl Karston, who
 mentioned Pycon at the Google Chicago OLPC meetup in January, to see if he
 can find a way to squeeze me in (he mentioned financial aid possibilities
 for the con to a bunch of students at that meetup, I believe he's on the
 committee.)

 Summary: I'm happy to be a resource, would really enjoy the opportunity to
 network more with OLPC folks, and in the lulls, would bend anyone's ear
 about learning design of XO activities. ;)

 Sidenote: I remember hearing about a coding jam before or after the
 conference. Is that right? Would a set of requirements/use cases/learning
 designs for activities be put to use if I went to the trouble of creating
 them? Meaning, could I get one of my pet projects built if I documented it
 and sent it to someone in advance? Any thoughts? I am not familiar with the
 programming jam concept so I might be completely misunderstanding its
 purpose.

 Thanks much - hope all is well with you both,
 Karen Smith
 St. Charles, IL
 (closeish to the pycon location)




 -Original Message-
 From: Mike C. Fletcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:24 AM
 To: Edward Cherlin; Karen Smith
 Subject: Re: Staffing of an OLPC Booth at PyCon, volunteers needed

 Edward Cherlin wrote:
 ...
 > I will make sure the booth is staffed at all times. I have done booth
 > duty and staff management at other conferences, such as Linux World.
 > Send volunteers my way, and we will work out a schedule.
 >
 Karen is interested, but may not be able to find child-care for the two
 days, she'll let us know.
 Karen Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 Myself, obviously.

 I thought Kurt had volunteered, but he's actually in Germany and was
 just suggesting the LiveCD as a distributable... oh well.

 The application requires a signature that can bind the organization from
 what I read, I've sent Walter the information and a link to the
 application to print and fax to PyCon.

 Thanks, and take care,
 Mike

 --
 
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com




-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
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Re: Salut and Suspend/Resume issues

[Michail Bletsas]

Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 02/21/2008 10:38:46 AM:

> RFC 4795 does not cover mdns.
> 
> http://www.multicastdns.org/ covers stuff regarding mdns; it is far from
> ideal for a mesh network as well.  Several of us are reading the ID at
> the moment.
> - Jim
> 
> 
http://www.zeroconf.org has a lot more information.

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Re: The XO and email

[Asheesh Laroia]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Shikhar wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to get the general feeling about the XO and email. There is
> a Gmail activity but no possibility of composing and viewing emails
> offline, which I think is important.

I think that might be nice also!

> - With Python, an email activity can be accomplished with the
> RFC-compliant email modules (for POP, SMTP, IMAP, MIME) and using sqlite
> for storage. So while building upon Tinymail
> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tinymail) is an idea, it makes sense to just
> go with Python email modules and sqlite if the next point is to be
> implemented :-)

You suggest using sqlite for storage, and further, as I understand it, 
writing your own mail storage layer.  But on the other hand, you could use 
an existing top-notch Free Software mail store, like Dovecot.  Dovecot 
comes with full-text indexing for search of email, for example, and header 
caching to optimize common queries ("Tell me all the From, Subject, To, 
and Date headers").

That's my main contribution to this thread - I fear you won't re-use some 
already great software.  The rest of your suggestions could perhaps be 
implemented as Dovecot plugins to minimize wasted work; for the most part, 
I agree with them. (-:

Once you start thinking of this in terms of interoperability with existing 
mail systems, I think you'll find you have way less work to do.  For 
example:

> - Email threading: there is some Python code at
> http://www.amk.ca/python/code/jwz, which could be adapted

Built-into IMAP, which Dovecot implements.

> - Search using sql queries
>
> I have a good mental picture of what I want to do - maybe I am not
> communicating it too well, but I am willing to elaborate. I would really
> like your feedback especially on the fundamental idea of using Python
> email modules and sqlite in case I am thinking in the wrong direction,
> although this appears to me to be the best approach

IMAP provides SEARCH TEXT, which Dovecot can now (as of 1.1.rc1) store an 
index for, and therefore return answers in split-second times in many 
cases.

-- Asheesh.

--
You're already carrying the sphere!
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controlling AGC of camera on the XO

[Jonathan Corbet]

Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> (1) Am I poking in the right place ?

No, the PWC driver is not used on the XO.  The OLPC camera driver driver
can be found in two pieces:

drivers/media/video/cafe_ccic.c (the controller driver)
drivers/media/vidoe/ov7670.c(the sensor driver)

What you need to do, though, is to employ the video4linux2 API to adjust
the brightness control; that will disable the automatic settings.

jon
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Re: controlling AGC of camera on the XO

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Arjun Sarwal wrote:
| I need to turn OFF the AGC of the camera on the XO within my Activity.

I recommend that you simply process the input in Bayer mode, which
automatically disables AGC, white-balancing, gamma correction, and other
image manipulations.  The instructions for testing Bayer mode are here:

http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-February/011029.html

- --Ben
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHvh9eUJT6e6HFtqQRAgObAJ9J9yu2fZtLVS9tY+STnoafYrpYBwCggX7c
jqqyo/Qh0EM96Y3ZA71Y7es=
=iyIO
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controlling AGC of camera on the XO

[Arjun Sarwal]

I need to turn OFF the AGC of the camera on the XO within my Activity.


I have found some pieces of code which I think might be relevant

(A)
in
olpc-2.6/drivers/media/video/pwc/pwc-ctrl.c

int pwc_set_agc(struct pwc_device *pdev, int mode, int value)
{
char buf;
int ret;

if (mode)
buf = 0x0; /* auto */
else
buf = 0xff; /* fixed */

ret = SendControlMsg(SET_LUM_CTL, AGC_MODE_FORMATTER, 1);

if (!mode && ret >= 0) {
if (value < 0)
value = 0;
if (value > 0x)
value = 0x;
buf = (value >> 10) & 0x3F;
ret = SendControlMsg(SET_LUM_CTL, PRESET_AGC_FORMATTER, 1);
}
if (ret < 0)
return ret;
return 0;
}

and

(B)
in
olpc-2.6/drivers/media/video/pwc/pwc-v4l.c

 case V4L2_CID_AUTOGAIN:
ret = pwc_get_agc(pdev, &c->value);
if (ret<0)
return -EINVAL;
c->value = (c->value < 0)?1:0;





My questions are  :

(1) Am I poking in the right place ?
(2) How do I go about developing a python wrapper? for this ?


many thanks in advance.
Arjun
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Mesh testing on Monday.

[Chris Ball]

Hi,

Here's a plan for Monday's mesh test.  Feel free to edit it.

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Mesh_Testing

Plaintext copy of the current revision enclosed below:

===

This page describes the network testing that will be performed on Monday
Feb 25th at 1cc.

Setup:

* Start with ten machines, keep adding ten at a time while it is
  useful to do so.

Measurements to make during each test (in addition to workload-specific
measurements):

* Spectrum utilization -- as measured w/ spectrum analyzer and/or
  from wireshark
  o Wireshark may be able to break down bandwidth by packet type 
* Remaining bandwidth -- attempt to download a large file on one
  machine during test, record time taken or bandwidth achieved.
* Total # of laptops seen on mesh view on all numbers (should be n^2). 

Workloads -- tests to perform, along with their quantitative metrics:

   1. Idle load.
   2. Every machine coming out of suspend (or booting).
   3. Every machine trying to register with school server -- Number of
  machines that failed the first attempt, failed second attempt, etc.
   4. Ricardo's web spider at various rates of download (download 1k
  page/second, etc)
   5. Read -- if one laptop shares a PDF, how many laptops fail to
  retrieve it?
   6. Distance -- binary success/fail. Are there other metrics?
   7. Write -- automate pressing N characters a second for small N, look at
  received rate/update time, increase number of participants.
   8. olpc-update -- number of machines upgraded in 1 hour 

Variables to investigate:

* Set mesh ttl to 1 for every packet
* Change bcast/mcast rate on every node
* Jim's Avahi config 30% fixes?
* Presence: Benchmark bandwidth use of Avahi vs. Cerebro vs. no presence?
* Collaboration: Benchmark switching from multicast to unicast?
* Suspend/resume: Off vs. on, wake-on-unicast vs. wake-on-multicast
* Block multicast in route table (are there other sources of
  multicast packets other than the above?)
* Are there other mesh parameters to tweak? Path request timeout,
  for example.

- Chris.
-- 
Chris Ball   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Axis of time: up/down rather than right/left?

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 15:21 -0600, Jameson "Chema" Quinn wrote:
> The problem with left/right is that it is biased towards LTR languages
> (or it requires extra L10N work), and it inevitably inconsistent with
> the up/down axis necessary for lists. 

When running in an Arabic locale (or other RTL locale) the sense of the
entire UI is automatically reversed around the vertical axis.  This
behavior is built into GTK, and Sugar has been made consistent with it.
Everything from the forward-back buttons in the browser to the list of
Activity launch icons is reversed.  Try it.

(This does not address your other suggestions.)

--Ben

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Re: Suggestions for a development environment?

[Dana Pellerin]

James, I too am brand new to the whole Python/GTK/Linux thing as well. 
I'm really looking forward to reading about your experiences as you 
learn and I have planned to document mine as well. There seems to be 
very few entry level tutorials for people who are new to the entire 
platform. Coming from the Windows/Visual Studio world, I've had a lot of 
trouble just getting things set up so I can write some code. I don't 
know how much I can help you with your particular issue, but I will 
share what I am doing so far in case there are other folks struggling.

I have managed to get Ubuntu 7.10 running under VMWare. I downloaded a 
prebuilt VM here: 
http://isv-image.ubuntu.com/vmware/Ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.zip. It 
seems to work pretty well and saved me a lot of install time. I then 
used the built in package manager to install what looks like a pretty 
decent IDE called Eric. The website is at: 
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/eric/index.html. If you decide to use GTK, 
check out a GUI builder called Gazpacho. It's like GLADE but seems a 
little slicker to me at first glance. It can also be installed from the 
package manager in Ubuntu, but the website is located here: 
http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/.

You asked about mixing GTK and PyGame and I ran across a Wiki entry 
saying it can't be done. I don't know first hand, but here's the entry: 
http://www.pygame.org/wiki/gui?parent=index.

I don't actually have an XO laptop, so I installed it in a VM by 
downloading a prebuilt image here: http://dev.laptop.org/pub/virtualbox/.

So that's the environment I have set up and I'm just starting to write 
some basic "hello world" type apps using GTK. I have no idea how they 
will appear or integrate with Sugar on the XO though. What I have not 
figured out yet is how to get my programs over to the XO virtual 
machine. This is where my lack of Linux knowledge is really killing me. 
Do I FTP it over somehow?

Dana

James Newton wrote:
> Hi Python activity developers,
>
> I am fairly new to Python and to Linux.  I have a number of ideas for
> educational activities that I would like to create for the XO.   I'm
> currently working on a Snakes and Ladders game.  I have plans for several
> other activities, including an Abacus, a game for stimulating mental imagery
> and a co-operative game based on micro-loans.
>
> I have spent some weeks now looking for the right tools to help me develop
> these activities.  In the hope that I may have missed an obvious but ideal
> solution, I'd like to give a summary of what I'm hoping to do, and ask you
> for your suggestions. 
>
> Modules
> ===
> So far, I've been using Pygame to display the background and counters at
> precise positions on the screen.  My understanding is the PyGTK might more
> economical in terms of CPU usage than PyGame, and that it would let me use
> Glade to layout the screens.  
>
> On the one hand, I am unsure how I could deal with multiple overlapping
> counters [2] or a criss-cross arrangement of snakes and ladders [4, 5] in
> PyGTK.  On the other, creating a separate screen for setting seems simpler
> in PyGTK than in Pygame.
>
> Is it possible to use the two approaches together?
>
> Platform
> 
> My background is in Macromedia Director, which I have used at a high level
> for over ten years.  I'd probably be most productive most quickly if I could
> find a similar authoring environment for Python.  Having said that, I
> understand that Python uses a very different metaphor, so, in the long term,
> I would be better off using a purely Pythonic environment.  I'm looking for
> new good habits to acquire.
>
> I have done most of my Python development so far on Windows, using IDLE.  I
> am also very much at ease on Macintosh.  I would guess that the closer my
> development environment is to the XO environment, the smoother the
> development process will go.  I have managed to get a machine set up to run
> Ubuntu 7.10, but I haven't found how to install IDLE on it.
>
> I have found a list of Python IDEs at
> , but no reviews that allow me
> to compare them.  I would be willing to pay for an IDE (shareware or
> otherwise) if that is what you recommend.
>
>
> I understand that personal preferences play a large part in choosing both
> what modules to use for a particular development and what platform and
> environment to work with.  So what would your personal preferences be for
> the project I describe above and why?
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your insight.  In return, I plan to create a series of
> tutorials[1], written from my beginner-to-the-whole-Python-Linux-XO-thing
> point of view, so that others interested in writing XO activities can get up
> and running faster.
>
> James
>
>
> [1] Examples
> For the XO:   
> For Director: 
>
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Axis of time: up/down rather than right/left?

[Jameson "Chema" Quinn]

I understand that the following proposal is radical and that it is perhaps
too late. If that's so, I'm sure that this list will have no trouble coming
to that conclusion. I think it is worth at least considering the
possibility.

There are several places in an interface where there is a spacial metaphor
for time: in the undo/redo icons; in the forward/back buttons for browse; in
the play/FF/Rev buttons on a media player; in the journal list view; and
probably a few others I'm forgetting. Generally, icons use a left/right axis
to represent time, and lists use an up/down one, with the top being most
recent (a growth/stack/strata model, the opposite of a text/freefall model).
The problem with left/right is that it is biased towards LTR languages (or
it requires extra L10N work), and it inevitably inconsistent with the
up/down axis necessary for lists.

It would not actually be especially difficult to redo the relevant icons to
represent an up/down axis, and I think that it would make our platform more
internally consistent and more international.

 (Also, the folding screen makes it easy to conceptualize up/down as
forward/back, in whichever direction is conveient for the culture - western
cultures walk towards the future, while in Japan it approches one from
behind. I'm not an expert, but I've heard that ASL and JSL use these
forward/back axes for representing time, while in Ghana Sign Language the
up/down axis of a growing tree or the arc of the sun are used.)
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Re: Suggestions for a development environment?

[Gerard J. Cerchio]

I prefer IDE's too, and have been using Eclipse: http://www.eclipse.org 
I am pretty sure Ubuntu has it packaged.

Have you tried running your development environment in a virtual machine?

Here are a few notes on OLPC development: 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Gcerchio.diary
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Suggestions for a development environment?

[James Newton]

Hi Python activity developers,

I am fairly new to Python and to Linux.  I have a number of ideas for
educational activities that I would like to create for the XO.   I'm
currently working on a Snakes and Ladders game.  I have plans for several
other activities, including an Abacus, a game for stimulating mental imagery
and a co-operative game based on micro-loans.

I have spent some weeks now looking for the right tools to help me develop
these activities.  In the hope that I may have missed an obvious but ideal
solution, I'd like to give a summary of what I'm hoping to do, and ask you
for your suggestions. 

Snakes and Ladders
==
Snakes and Ladders is an implementation of the classic board game
.  My aim is to help young
children to learn to count (use number names in the correct order, count
each square in order, count each square only once, associate number name
with quantity, ...).

You can find a (non-XO) draft implementation of it at:


Issues
==
1) Show the numbers in a localized writing system (Roman, Arabic,
   Chinese, ...)
2) Show multiple counters on the same square with an offset, so that 
   all are visible.
3) Show the current player's counter at the front (z-order)
4) Use SVG images for the default graphics, to limit file size
5) Allow user to import custom artwork for the background from (say)
   the Paint activity to override the default graphics
6) Allow user to customize the Snake and Ladder start and end points
   to match those in their background image
7) Allow user to import custom sound files from (say) Record
   (Sound files are used to count aloud, so it would be great to use
   a recording of the player's own voice)
8) Allow multiple players to share one machine, and multiple
   machines to share a single game 
9) Show a preferences screen to allow choice of number of players,
   number of dice, and so on.

Modules
===
So far, I've been using Pygame to display the background and counters at
precise positions on the screen.  My understanding is the PyGTK might more
economical in terms of CPU usage than PyGame, and that it would let me use
Glade to layout the screens.  

On the one hand, I am unsure how I could deal with multiple overlapping
counters [2] or a criss-cross arrangement of snakes and ladders [4, 5] in
PyGTK.  On the other, creating a separate screen for setting seems simpler
in PyGTK than in Pygame.

Is it possible to use the two approaches together?

Platform

My background is in Macromedia Director, which I have used at a high level
for over ten years.  I'd probably be most productive most quickly if I could
find a similar authoring environment for Python.  Having said that, I
understand that Python uses a very different metaphor, so, in the long term,
I would be better off using a purely Pythonic environment.  I'm looking for
new good habits to acquire.

I have done most of my Python development so far on Windows, using IDLE.  I
am also very much at ease on Macintosh.  I would guess that the closer my
development environment is to the XO environment, the smoother the
development process will go.  I have managed to get a machine set up to run
Ubuntu 7.10, but I haven't found how to install IDLE on it.

I have found a list of Python IDEs at
, but no reviews that allow me
to compare them.  I would be willing to pay for an IDE (shareware or
otherwise) if that is what you recommend.


I understand that personal preferences play a large part in choosing both
what modules to use for a particular development and what platform and
environment to work with.  So what would your personal preferences be for
the project I describe above and why?


Thanks in advance for your insight.  In return, I plan to create a series of
tutorials[1], written from my beginner-to-the-whole-Python-Linux-XO-thing
point of view, so that others interested in writing XO activities can get up
and running faster.

James


[1] Examples
For the XO:   
For Director: 

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New joyride build 1721

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1721

Changes in build 1721 from build: 1720

Size delta: 0.00M

-telepathy-salut 0.2.2-2.olpc2
+telepathy-salut 0.2.2-3.olpc2

--- Changes for telepathy-salut 0.2.2-3.olpc2 from 0.2.2-2.olpc2 ---
  + dev.laptop.org #6483 for stream tube flushing (patch really applied)

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Re: suspend vs. SD card

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 10:18 -0500, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
> It appeared to me that the 'resume' following the suspension had 
> re-interrogated the SD card (was power to it turned off by suspend?) 
> and had somehow "mixed up" access to it.  My recovery was to reboot.

This is bug #4013:

http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4013

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Re: Broken links on Hacking_Sugar page

[Eduardo Silva]

>  >  >
>  >  > >http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Hellokids-activity.tar.gz&action
>  >  > =edit<
>  >
>  >  No idea about this one :/
>
>  Hmm, I pushed that file some time ago, is possible to see when it was 
> deleted?

Now it fills like an "image", I don't know why... well, the link works again

Ed.-
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suspend vs. SD card

[Mikus Grinbergs]

I don't yet know how repeatable this is.  I have an SD card inserted 
into my G1G1.  On that SD card I keep "persistent" files, including 
some bash scripts.  In my .bashrc I add this SD-card-directory to 
the PATH.

Was demonstrating the XO (693) to an acquaintance, and physically 
configured it into e-book mode (screen flat).  When I unfolded the 
XO (screen perpendicular), it was suspended (screen dim).  In using 
Terminal afterward, the response given when I entered an SD-card 
bash_script_name was 'unknown command'.

It appeared to me that the 'resume' following the suspension had 
re-interrogated the SD card (was power to it turned off by suspend?) 
and had somehow "mixed up" access to it.  My recovery was to reboot.

mikus

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Re: [OLPC library] Overweight Wiki Page

[Jameson "Chema" Quinn]

SJ's answer is the best one. However, if you want a kludgey hack, you could
do something like

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Homunq/toctest

This uses template substitution to manually create links to subpage#section
in the section headers. It means that someone editing the subpage later will
see:

== [[subpage#section|section]] ==

as the section headers, and will have to edit the section name twice; but at
least those two instances are right in the same place. Any new sections they
create would have to use the template or follow the format above, or they
would be unreachable directly from the main TOC.

Obviously, you could write a bot to fix your headers the first time, or even
write one which periodically checks and fixes any newly-created

== normal headers ==

.

Again, the better solution would be a mediawiki extension, if you do PHP.

Jameson


On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Samuel Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Derw,
>
> Having a way to generate an aggregate table of contents for a set of
> pages without transcluding the text of those pages could be useful.  I
> don't believe it has been written; as far as I know this would be the
> first magic word[1] in MediaWiki that parses the text of another
> wikipage and outputs some function of that in the current page.
>
> Note that a common workaround is to make such a table of contents by
> hand, not to make it too finely grained, and to update it by hand when
> subpages change.  See for instance the [[HIG]] header.
>
> SJ
>
> [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 5:46 PM, drew einhorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >  I've got a couple variations on a way overweight wiki page.
> >
> >  It began as a MS Word file, and it's been through Open Office,
> >  shell, sed, perl, awk, python and the result is not too shabby.
> >
> >  Should publish it, but really ought to rewrite it all in python first.
> >
> >  Is there a way to use the command line to open a .doc file in
> >  Open Office and save it as html an can add to my polyglot
> >  assortment of scripts, in the meantime?
> >
> >  The first version at:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/VistA_Monograph_Wiki
> >
> >  gets:
> >
> >  WARNING: This page is 246 kilobytes long; some browsers may have
> >  problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please
> >  consider breaking the page into smaller sections.
> >
> >  I've been looking at breaking it up and reassembling it using
> >  templates and there is a partial version at:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/WV_VM
> >
> >  Is there a easy way to transfer all 70 some pieces at once,
> >  instead of doing them one at a time using
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Special:Upload
> >
> >  But wait that's only for Images not for Pages.
> >
> >  And when the templates all get reassembled it's going to
> >  be just as big, if not a little bigger.
> >
> >  What I really need is a syntactic variant, that builds a
> >  combined Table of Contents, but does not put all the
> >  pieces together into a combined wiki page, the links
> >  in the Table of Contents take you the right spot in
> >  one of the component pages.
> >
> >  Does that capability exist, or am I just dreaming?
> >
> >  --
> >  Drew Einhorn
> >  ___
> >  Devel mailing list
> >  Devel@lists.laptop.org
> >  http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> ___
> Library mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/library
>
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Re: physically feeble adults

[Jim Gettys]

On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 14:14 +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> I don't think the front panel buttons will be used normally, so I don't
> think this optimisation is necessary.
> 
> Those with weaker fingers can use alternate means, such as clamping the
> whole thing in a woodworking vice, placing weights on the switches, or
> composing a USB key script to do what is wanted.
> 
> Adding a half second delay to millions of kids doesn't seem justifiable.
> Half a second for each of them is like five minutes to me.
> 

Half a second isn't an issue at boot time.  Even if we greatly improve
the boot time, we'll still be in the 5 second sort of range, I'd guess.
If Mikus were suggesting 5 seconds, I'd start getting antsy
   - Jim

-- 
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Re: physically feeble adults

[Jim Gettys]

Seems like a good suggestion; children with disabilities have similar
issues to adults.

Please put this in our trac system, assigned to the OFW (open firmware)
component.
 - Jim

On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 18:21 -0500, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
> I realize the intent of the OLPC project is to make "booting the 
> system" as quick as possible.  There is one situation for which 
> introducing a deliberate __delay__ might be beneficial:
> 
> It appears the XO is testing its front panel buttons as soon as it 
> starts running.  If an individual used his strongest finger to push 
> the (recessed) 'power on' button, there does not seem to be enough 
> time for that individual to transfer that same finger to one of the 
> other front panel buttons.  Those other buttons are small;  if the 
> individual does not have enough dexterity in his other fingers, the 
> "which buttons were pressed" indication as picked up by the XO may 
> be different from what the individual wanted to convey.
> 
> 
> Let me suggest the XO pause a half second following a 'power on', to 
> allow a feeble user time to re-position his fingers (from the task 
> of turning on the XO, to the task of indicating "what is special 
> about this boot").
> 
> 
> mikus
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
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Re: Salut and Suspend/Resume issues

[Jim Gettys]

RFC 4795 does not cover mdns.

http://www.multicastdns.org/ covers stuff regarding mdns; it is far from
ideal for a mesh network as well.  Several of us are reading the ID at
the moment.
- Jim


On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 04:01 -0800, John Gilmore wrote:
> > Can you explain how is this not mooted by considering mDNS, which XO's
> > all run and listen for?
> 
> No, I cannot; someone who understands mDNS should describe the
> protocol and its implications.  I could go off and read the RFC
> eventually (is it spec'd by Informational RFC 4795?  Or does the code
> implement some different variation?).  Please, if you know, be
> specific in why you think it moots anything.  Most things that listen
> for multicast traffic only awaken if they can actually contribute to
> the conversation.  (If not, the protocol is broken.)
> 
> Hmm, I've skimmed part half of the RFC.  It indeed looks broken.  It's
> just like IPv4 ARP: every machine wakes up, looks at every query, and
> 99% of the time throws them away and goes back to sleep.  Stupid!
> Requesters should be hashing the name it's looking up, into the
> multicast address, so that servers who can't possibly match the name
> don't have to even see the packet, nor awaken.  No wonder it didn't
> make it as an IETF draft or proposed standard.
> 
>   John
> 
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
-- 
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Re: Broken links on Hacking_Sugar page

[Eduardo Silva]

Hi,

>  Updated.

Thanks!

>
>  > At
>  > 
>  > there is a wiki link to [[Hellokids-activity.tar.gz]].  This is intended
>  > as a download, but it is interpreted as a link to a non-existant page:
>  >
>  > >http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Hellokids-activity.tar.gz&action
>  > =edit<
>
>  No idea about this one :/

Hmm, I pushed that file some time ago, is possible to see when it was deleted?

cheers.

Ed.-
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Re: Broken links on Hacking_Sugar page

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 15:15 -0500, James Newton wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> On the page ...
> 
>  110649#How_Sugar_takes_the_control>
> 
> ... the link to...
> 
>   
> 
> ... results in "403 Forbidden - Error lookup file"

Updated.

> At
> 
> there is a wiki link to [[Hellokids-activity.tar.gz]].  This is intended
> as a download, but it is interpreted as a link to a non-existant page:
> 
> >http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Hellokids-activity.tar.gz&action
> =edit<

No idea about this one :/

Tomeu

> What should the correct URLs be?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> James 


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Project Hosting Application: Treenimation

[Mike Hahn]

1. Project name : Treenimation
2. Existing website, if any : www.treenimation.net
3. One-line description : Make your own multiplayer board games

4. Longer description   : Use Treenimation and its built-in scripting 
language,
 : Treescript (or Python), to create multiplayer
 : board games. Subsequent versions will add 
support for
 : animated games. Even non-programmers can create
 : all sorts of board games.

5. URLs of similar projects :

6. Committer list
Please list the maintainer (lead developer) as the first entry. Only list
developers who need to be given accounts so that they can commit to your
project's code repository, or push their own. There is no need to list
non-committer developers.

   Username   Full name SSH2 key URLE-mail
      - --
#1 mikehahn   Mike Hahn www.treenimation.net/id_rsa.pub  [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
#2
#3
   ...

If any developers don't have their SSH2 keys on the web, please attach them
to the application e-mail.

7. Preferred development model

[X] Central tree. Every developer can push his changes directly to the
project's git tree. This is the standard model that will be familiar to
CVS and Subversion users, and that tends to work well for most projects.

[ ] Maintainer-owned tree. Every developer creates his own git tree, or
multiple git trees. He periodically asks the maintainer to look at one
or more of these trees, and merge changes into the maintainer-owned,
"main" tree. This is the model used by the Linux kernel, and is
well-suited to projects wishing to maintain a tighter control on code
entering the main tree.

If you choose the maintainer-owned tree model, but wish to set up some
shared trees where all of your project's committers can commit directly,
as might be the case with a "discussion" tree, or a tree for an individual
feature, you may send us such a request by e-mail, and we will set up the
tree for you.

8. Set up a project mailing list:

[ ] Yes, named after our project name
[ ] Yes, named __
[X] No

When your project is just getting off the ground, we suggest you eschew
a separate mailing list and instead keep discussion about your project
on the main OLPC development list. This will give you more input and
potentially attract more developers to your project; when the volume of
messages related to your project reaches some critical mass, we can
trivially create a separate mailing list for you.

If you need multiple lists, let us know. We discourage having many
mailing lists for smaller projects, as this tends to
stunt the growth of your project community. You can always add more lists
later.

9. Commit notifications

[ ] Notification of commits to the main tree should be e-mailed to the list
we chose to create above
[ ] A separate mailing list, -git, should be created for commit
notifications
[X] No commit notifications, please

10. Shell accounts

As a general rule, we don't provide shell accounts to developers unless
there's a demonstrated need. If you have one, please explain here, and
list the usernames of the committers above needing shell access.

11. Translation
[X] Set up the laptop.org Pootle server to allow translation commits to be 
made
[ ] Translation arrangements have already been made at ___

12. Notes/comments:









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Re: Mesh Network feature XO-XS

[Ricardo Carrano]

Hi Solochan,

It seems correct. Repeater is the correct mode for msh0.
For eth0 you will have ad-hoc or managed (if the interface is associated to
an access point).

Think of the school server with an active antenna attached as a gateway
between the mesh and the infrasctructured network. The active antenna is the
interface to the mesh, while the wired ethernet is the interface to the
infrasctruture. I believe this will help understand the modes you see.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:06 AM, sulochan acharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Ricardo,
> I don't know if this is major problem but when i run
> #iwconifg msh0
> it shows that the msh0 mode=repeater
> I am running firmware version 3107. if i try to iwconfig msh0 ap any or
> any other iwconfig command on msh0 it does not work.
> My eth0 is on ad-hoc mode.
> I tried unplugging the antenna and replugging it but when i do service
> network restart it never comes up.
>
> Is that the right mode for eth0 and msh0. Is there a way to manually
> change the mode on msh0??
>
> However, i can ping the internet through the antenna. Should i be able to
> do that on a repeater mode?
>
> P.S: I did manage to find the iwpriv msh0 fwt_list on the xo's and the
> laptop.
>
> best,
> Sulochan.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Ricardo Carrano <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Sulochan!
> >
> > Assuming it is your XO2 fwt_list, it should be populated with paths to
> > XO1 (via XO1) and XS (via XO1 or XS, depending whether the XS is in reach).
> > The way it is (empty) this means your XO has no path for any other XO.
> > It is lonely and sad ;-)
> > But, please keep in mind that these entries expiry (I don't recall how
> > long does it take - but it's not long), so you should check them during the
> > test. Is that the case?
> >
> > On Feb 20, 2008 9:20 AM, sulochan acharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ricardo,
> > > I have iwpriv showing
> > > NULL on all the fwt_list .
> > > What should it be set to?
> > >
> > > best,
> > > Sulochan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 19, 2008 5:41 PM, Ricardo Carrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sulochan,
> > > >
> > > > You should check your forwarding (layer two) table with : iwpriv
> > > > msh0 fwt_list  ( is 0,1,2,...)
> > > >
> > > > Look for an entry that forwards the frames destined to the anycast
> > > > mac address of the server (c0:27:c0:27:c0:00) via the mac address of the
> > > > first XO.
> > > >
> > > > Traceroute/path will show you layer three (IP) routes.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Ricardo Carrano
> > > >
> > > > 2008/2/19 sulochan acharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >
> > > > > Folks,
> > > > > I can not hop from xo to xo to xs.
> > > > > Here is what I did:
> > > > >
> > > > > One XO closer to the server with active antenna.and i can ping
> > > > > the server from this laptop.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another XO closer to the first laptop ( i can chat with this XO)
> > > > > but further away from the server.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now technically i should be able to ping the server through the
> > > > > first laptop, but I cant :(
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there some additional things i need to (like adding packages)
> > > > > go through to get this to work?
> > > > >
> > > > > Or is it just out of range? If so how it is different from one
> > > > > laptop talking to another laptop?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a way i can check that the packet is being relayed (other
> > > > > than doing trace rout ) ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, can i for test purposes change the mesh DHCP to give out
> > > > > ipv4 and not ipv6? Would this make
> > > > > some other features not work?
> > > > >
> > > > > best,
> > > > > -Sulochan
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Devel mailing list
> > > > > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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New joyride build 1720

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1720

Changes in build 1720 from build: 1713

Size delta: 0.00M

-telepathy-salut 0.2.2-1.olpc2
+telepathy-salut 0.2.2-2.olpc2

--- Changes for telepathy-salut 0.2.2-2.olpc2 from 0.2.2-1.olpc2 ---
  + dev.laptop.org #6483 for stream tube flushing (patch applied)

--
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See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs
See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a 
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Re: Salut and Suspend/Resume issues

[John Gilmore]

> Can you explain how is this not mooted by considering mDNS, which XO's
> all run and listen for?

No, I cannot; someone who understands mDNS should describe the
protocol and its implications.  I could go off and read the RFC
eventually (is it spec'd by Informational RFC 4795?  Or does the code
implement some different variation?).  Please, if you know, be
specific in why you think it moots anything.  Most things that listen
for multicast traffic only awaken if they can actually contribute to
the conversation.  (If not, the protocol is broken.)

Hmm, I've skimmed part half of the RFC.  It indeed looks broken.  It's
just like IPv4 ARP: every machine wakes up, looks at every query, and
99% of the time throws them away and goes back to sleep.  Stupid!
Requesters should be hashing the name it's looking up, into the
multicast address, so that servers who can't possibly match the name
don't have to even see the packet, nor awaken.  No wonder it didn't
make it as an IETF draft or proposed standard.

John

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Re: Mesh Network feature XO-XS

[sulochan acharya]

Hi Ricardo,
I don't know if this is major problem but when i run
#iwconifg msh0
it shows that the msh0 mode=repeater
I am running firmware version 3107. if i try to iwconfig msh0 ap any or any
other iwconfig command on msh0 it does not work.
My eth0 is on ad-hoc mode.
I tried unplugging the antenna and replugging it but when i do service
network restart it never comes up.

Is that the right mode for eth0 and msh0. Is there a way to manually change
the mode on msh0??

However, i can ping the internet through the antenna. Should i be able to do
that on a repeater mode?

P.S: I did manage to find the iwpriv msh0 fwt_list on the xo's and the
laptop.

best,
Sulochan.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Ricardo Carrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Sulochan!
>
> Assuming it is your XO2 fwt_list, it should be populated with paths to
> XO1 (via XO1) and XS (via XO1 or XS, depending whether the XS is in reach).
> The way it is (empty) this means your XO has no path for any other XO. It
> is lonely and sad ;-)
> But, please keep in mind that these entries expiry (I don't recall how
> long does it take - but it's not long), so you should check them during the
> test. Is that the case?
>
> On Feb 20, 2008 9:20 AM, sulochan acharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ricardo,
> > I have iwpriv showing
> > NULL on all the fwt_list .
> > What should it be set to?
> >
> > best,
> > Sulochan.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2008 5:41 PM, Ricardo Carrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Sulochan,
> > >
> > > You should check your forwarding (layer two) table with : iwpriv msh0
> > > fwt_list  ( is 0,1,2,...)
> > >
> > > Look for an entry that forwards the frames destined to the anycast mac
> > > address of the server (c0:27:c0:27:c0:00) via the mac address of the first
> > > XO.
> > >
> > > Traceroute/path will show you layer three (IP) routes.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ricardo Carrano
> > >
> > > 2008/2/19 sulochan acharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > > I can not hop from xo to xo to xs.
> > > > Here is what I did:
> > > >
> > > > One XO closer to the server with active antenna.and i can ping
> > > > the server from this laptop.
> > > >
> > > > Another XO closer to the first laptop ( i can chat with this XO) but
> > > > further away from the server.
> > > >
> > > > Now technically i should be able to ping the server through the
> > > > first laptop, but I cant :(
> > > >
> > > > Is there some additional things i need to (like adding packages) go
> > > > through to get this to work?
> > > >
> > > > Or is it just out of range? If so how it is different from one
> > > > laptop talking to another laptop?
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way i can check that the packet is being relayed (other
> > > > than doing trace rout ) ?
> > > >
> > > > Also, can i for test purposes change the mesh DHCP to give out ipv4
> > > > and not ipv6? Would this make
> > > > some other features not work?
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > > -Sulochan
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Devel mailing list
> > > > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: telepathy - request for guidance

[Guillaume Desmottes]

Le mercredi 20 février 2008 à 17:09 -0500, Mikus Grinbergs a écrit :
> > Could be a loudmouth bug. Could you provide telepathy-gabble log with
> > LM_DEBUG=net defined please?
> 
> I was already using that definition, and earlier posted the ending 
> part of my telepathy-gabble.log.  Just in case you need it, here is 
> the beginning of that log (constant string deleted from each line):
> 


Could be a Gabble or Loudmouth bug. Could you open a ticket on 
http://dev.laptop.org/ , assign it to telepathy-gabble,
explain your problem and attach your log file please?

Thanks,


G.

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Re: Overweight Wiki Page

[Samuel Klein]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Samuel Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Drew,
>
>  Note that a common workaround is to make such a table of contents by
>  hand, not to make it too finely grained, and to update it by hand when
>  subpages change.  See for instance the [[HIG]] header.

The easiest way to implement this would be to write an extension,
adding a hook for a tag to do what you have in mind.  Take a look at
how the gallery tag is implemented:
   http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Gallery
   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Extensions

SJ
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Re: Overweight Wiki Page

[Samuel Klein]

Derw,

Having a way to generate an aggregate table of contents for a set of
pages without transcluding the text of those pages could be useful.  I
don't believe it has been written; as far as I know this would be the
first magic word[1] in MediaWiki that parses the text of another
wikipage and outputs some function of that in the current page.

Note that a common workaround is to make such a table of contents by
hand, not to make it too finely grained, and to update it by hand when
subpages change.  See for instance the [[HIG]] header.

SJ

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words


On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 5:46 PM, drew einhorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  I've got a couple variations on a way overweight wiki page.
>
>  It began as a MS Word file, and it's been through Open Office,
>  shell, sed, perl, awk, python and the result is not too shabby.
>
>  Should publish it, but really ought to rewrite it all in python first.
>
>  Is there a way to use the command line to open a .doc file in
>  Open Office and save it as html an can add to my polyglot
>  assortment of scripts, in the meantime?
>
>  The first version at:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/VistA_Monograph_Wiki
>
>  gets:
>
>  WARNING: This page is 246 kilobytes long; some browsers may have
>  problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please
>  consider breaking the page into smaller sections.
>
>  I've been looking at breaking it up and reassembling it using
>  templates and there is a partial version at:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/WV_VM
>
>  Is there a easy way to transfer all 70 some pieces at once,
>  instead of doing them one at a time using
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Special:Upload
>
>  But wait that's only for Images not for Pages.
>
>  And when the templates all get reassembled it's going to
>  be just as big, if not a little bigger.
>
>  What I really need is a syntactic variant, that builds a
>  combined Table of Contents, but does not put all the
>  pieces together into a combined wiki page, the links
>  in the Table of Contents take you the right spot in
>  one of the component pages.
>
>  Does that capability exist, or am I just dreaming?
>
>  --
>  Drew Einhorn
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