Re: #7744 NORM Future : Rotated morph loses rotation on save

[K. K. Subramaniam]

On Friday 01 Aug 2008 8:22:01 pm Zarro Boogs per Child wrote:
>  I'm not sure this is a bug and not a feature ... It's easy enough to
>  rotate a morph when brought into another project?
Rotation center is saved in the file but not the rotation value itself. So how 
would the code loading the morph know how much to rotate?

If a morph is embedded in another morph, the submorph's rotation does get 
restored when the owner morph is loaded from file. I realize why this happens 
but the result is not consistent.

This raises a deeper question. Are rotation and scaling an inherent, 
persistent property of the morph (like color or extent) or a transient 
property (like its origin or owner). If the latter, then why should a flex 
wrapper persist after the rotation/scaling is ended? We could use a single 
rubberband handle to rotate/scale and cache (heading,scale,graphic) in an 
extension.

Subbu
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Re: New faster build 2242

[Deepak Saxena]

On Aug 03 2008, at 21:07, Deepak Saxena was caught saying:
> On Aug 01 2008, at 23:57, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying:
> > 2008/8/1 Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build2242
> > 
> > I've unretired the faster branch temporarily to collect some
> > measurements on the costs of adding xfce to our builds.  I also added
> > some patches from my local git to sugar-artwork for #7641 (fixing some
> > broken icons in xfce) and to sugar for #7495 and #7685 for my own
> > testing and development.
> 
> Can we separate the build numbers for faster and joyride builds since
> they are different build streams?
> 
> I just spent 5 minutes trying to figure out why "olpc-update joyride-2250"
> does not work before realizing that it was faster build. Not a lot
> of time wasted, but it seems confusing to me.

Nevermind, they are different stream numbers, just -EUSERERROR.

~Deepak

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Re: Libertas thinmac/hostmode driver for Joyride kernels

[Deepak Saxena]

On Aug 02 2008, at 11:12, Andres Salomon was caught saying:
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:22:51 -0700
> Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Cozybit has been working on new thinmac firmware for the Libertas
> > chip that allows use of the chip in hostmode and I've built it 
> > against our Joyride kernels so that others can play around with it
> > and provide feedback.
> > 
> 
> Is there a public git repo with the code?

dev.laptop.org:/git/users/javier/libertastf

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Re: New faster build 2242

[Deepak Saxena]

On Aug 01 2008, at 23:57, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying:
> 2008/8/1 Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build2242
> 
> I've unretired the faster branch temporarily to collect some
> measurements on the costs of adding xfce to our builds.  I also added
> some patches from my local git to sugar-artwork for #7641 (fixing some
> broken icons in xfce) and to sugar for #7495 and #7685 for my own
> testing and development.

Can we separate the build numbers for faster and joyride builds since
they are different build streams?

I just spent 5 minutes trying to figure out why "olpc-update joyride-2250"
does not work before realizing that it was faster build. Not a lot
of time wasted, but it seems confusing to me.

Tnx,
~Deepak

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Re: New faster build 2250

[Bobby Powers]

I'm running 2249, are there suppose to be access points in the network
view? aside from that, awesome job so far!

bobby

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Build Announcer v2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build2250
>
> Changes in build 2250 from build: 2249
>
> Size delta: 0.00M
>
> -sugar-xfce-control 0.1-1
> +sugar-xfce-control 0.2-1
>
> --- Changes for sugar-xfce-control 0.2-1 from 0.1-1 ---
>  + Fix unfreeze after pretty boot.
>
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New faster build 2250

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build2250

Changes in build 2250 from build: 2249

Size delta: 0.00M

-sugar-xfce-control 0.1-1
+sugar-xfce-control 0.2-1

--- Changes for sugar-xfce-control 0.2-1 from 0.1-1 ---
  + Fix unfreeze after pretty boot.

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Re: The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Albert Cahalan]

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2008, at 23:03, Albert Cahalan wrote:

> This is rather unfair. I take it you've just filled up all available space
> and jffs2 is now thrashing (as would happen on almost any file system)?

"df -m ." reports 1024 blocks, 854 used, 171 available, 84% used.
"du -ms ." in the "store" directory reports 195 megabytes.

Even if it is understandable to be unbearably slow at this
level of use, which I doubt, something needs to be done.

> I find my way around my 900+ entries just fine. I do agree that a high
> percentage of my entries seem to be cruft, but there is a proposed UI
> feature that I believe will greatly reduce accidently creating new journal
> entries when what was really intended was a resumption of an earlier entry.
> The much needed extension of the new Home view to default to, and display,
> recent entries for said activity.
>
>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_management-07.jpeg

Who wants to resume? Can't a person just play with
an activity for a while, without saving every embarrasing
failure? Why am I forced to keep my junk?

>> Clearly, nobody is dogfooding.
>
> I would like to see more dogfooding, perhaps once 8.2.0 is out the door; as
> mentioned before, some occasional sugarised only dev meet-ups would be a
> nice start (Chat, shared Write for group notes, Xo IRC as a fall back when
> it all blows up, and any thing else that's useful).

That'd be a great start.

I happen to think that Sugar's python files should be
kept in the journal. Create a journal-aware git tool.
Do **everything** in sugar. If even the developers can't
manage this, then something is severely wrong.

That goes for UI designers as well. Ditch the Adobe tools
unless Adobe ports them to Sugar. MacOS is cheating.
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Re: The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Bastien]

There could be a default (favorite) filter for the journal entries.  
I'd suggest something based on time: the more recent the entry, the 
more likely it's you want to resume it.
 
Such a notion would also nicely combine with the notion of favs in 
the home view.  And maybe it's not that hard to implement?

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Re: Empty neighborhood on joyride-2248 ?

[Ricardo Carrano]

Hi!

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 03 2008, at 22:49, Gary C Martin was caught saying:
>> Just moved from joyride-2241 to 2248, any one else seeing an empty
>> neighborhood and no network access (just my XO icon in the centre)?
>> ifconfig shows eth0 is up, but has no inet address associated with it.
>> Wanted to check before I open another new ticket. Booting back to 2241
>> shows the neighborhood working again.
>
> I haven't updated from 2170 yet, but Ricardo submitted #7776 which
> is similar, but he still sees the Mesh entries in the network view.
>

Yes. Actually I only see other XOs, the mesh "targets" I don't see
either. But it's useful to know that 2241 is ok, this narrows down the
problem. I'll update the ticket. Thanks!

> ~Deepak
>
>
> --
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Re: Difference between Sugar-Launch and launching from the ring

[Alex Levenson]

I do not have the same problem with other activities, that's why I'm asking
about what I could have done in my activity to cause this.
I will post my logs but there's not much in them.

Alex

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:43 PM, Bobby Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> can you post the logs?
>
> 2008/8/1 Alex Levenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  > In the Terminal Activity, from any directory. Usually from the
> activity's
> > directory, but it works from anywhere (I've tried).
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Alex Levenson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I'm writing a physics problem solving game:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/X2o
> >>>
> >>> It runs fine when I launch it from the command line (Terminal Activity
> as
> >>> user olpc) via sugar-launch. It works regardless of the current working
> >>> directory.
> >>>
> >>> But, it hangs when I launch it from the ring on the home screen. It
> pops
> >>> up with all the tool bars (but is missing all the icons in the custom
> >>> toolbars) and a gray canvas.
> >>
> >> Where do you run "sugar-launch"?
> >>
> >> Marco
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> >
>
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Re: The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Albert,

On 3 Aug 2008, at 23:03, Albert Cahalan wrote:

> I gave up. My journal has 1150 entries, 99% spam.

I'm at about 900 or so after 4 months.

> I don't even want to look in the journal. Not ever! It's unusable.
> It's worse than the worst email inbox nightmare. Nothing has a useful
> name, the scroll bar doesn't move with my mouse, clicking to mark an
> entry takes many seconds to work (leading me to click again), and
> the purely iconic interface is totally incomprehensible. I'd even
> prefer the dreadful interface of Macintosh System 1.
>
> An improvement would be to delete the datastore at boot. No joke.
> The user's files are effectively missing already, because they are
> lost among the spam. Stuff saved to the journal is unrecoverable
> in any practical way.
>
> In other words: users CAN NOT SAVE THEIR WORK on the XO. Sure, it
> may technically get saved, but there is no hope for finding it back.

This is rather unfair. I take it you've just filled up all available  
space and jffs2 is now thrashing (as would happen on almost any file  
system)? If you're really sure you want to wipe all your work from  
journal (at yoyr own risk)...

rm -r /home/olpc/.sugar/default/datastore

And some possible journal & activity related file rot:

rm -r /home/olpc/.sugar/default/data

I find my way around my 900+ entries just fine. I do agree that a high  
percentage of my entries seem to be cruft, but there is a proposed UI  
feature that I believe will greatly reduce accidently creating new  
journal entries when what was really intended was a resumption of an  
earlier entry. The much needed extension of the new Home view to  
default to, and display, recent entries for said activity.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_management-07.jpeg

This combined with a larger Activity name input box (ridiculous small  
for no good reason I can fathom), and perhaps even a dialogue to  
prompt for a name if one is not set when stopping (though this may  
well be annoying unless well planned - a good default name, auto  
confirm timer, input focus for typing, return key for immediate  
acceptance etc).

> Clearly, nobody is dogfooding.


I would like to see more dogfooding, perhaps once 8.2.0 is out the  
door; as mentioned before, some occasional sugarised only dev meet-ups  
would be a nice start (Chat, shared Write for group notes, Xo IRC as a  
fall back when it all blows up, and any thing else that's useful).

--Gary


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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Brian Jordan]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Albert Cahalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Morgan Collett writes:
>
>> We didn't get to discuss this activity developers' mailing list
>> at the Sugar meetings. However I've had no negative feedback.
>> If anyone is opposed to this list, please speak up quickly and
>> loudly. Otherwise I will get it created in the next week,
>> publicize it and invite all known activity developers whose email
>> addresses I can track down to subscribe.
>
> Well I don't want to be all that negative because it isn't my
> server and I'm not joining the list, so I have little reason to
> care. If you're looking for reasons why the list isn't useful
> though, sure:
>
> This will eventually, if not immediately, be a dead list.
>
> Few people want to work on all activities. Activities often
> do not share much in common. For developer D1 who likes to
> hack on activity A1, emails about activity A2 are noise.

Not sure about that... I propose that many activity developers would
love to help casually with other activities, and that the lack of
large-group collaboration on development of many activities could be
cured by having a tangible activity developers' group.

I've done some thinking about this (w.r.t. activities + git
repositories) at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_co-op

>
> Generally, the expertise will be elsewhere. If I need to discuss
> programming the camera, where does it make sense for me to go?
> Certainly an activity mailing list is not the place.
>

I could see discussing camera activity development (pygame/camera) on
an activity devel list.

Brian

> If the list were moderated, to be used ONLY for announcements
> of things that break the API/ABI, then there could be some value.
> In that case, you'd need to split up Python and non-Python.
> Like this:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> There could also be a list to announce new activities.
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Re: Empty neighborhood on joyride-2248 ?

[Gary C Martin]

On 3 Aug 2008, at 22:34, Deepak Saxena wrote:
> On Aug 03 2008, at 22:49, Gary C Martin was caught saying:
>> Just moved from joyride-2241 to 2248, any one else seeing an empty
>> neighborhood and no network access (just my XO icon in the centre)?
>> ifconfig shows eth0 is up, but has no inet address associated with  
>> it.
>> Wanted to check before I open another new ticket. Booting back to  
>> 2241
>> shows the neighborhood working again.
>
> I haven't updated from 2170 yet, but Ricardo submitted #7776 which
> is similar, but he still sees the Mesh entries in the network view.

Thanks, yea that's it. I have no other mesh devices to test here so  
I'm not sure if mesh is working (though msh0 in ifconfig looks good).  
Added to the ticket.

Some activities also immediately bomb out on launch (Paint and my own  
Moon activity), not sure if this is related at all (Log and Terminal  
still worked fine).

--Gary

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Re: Empty neighborhood on joyride-2248 ?

[Deepak Saxena]

On Aug 03 2008, at 22:49, Gary C Martin was caught saying:
> Just moved from joyride-2241 to 2248, any one else seeing an empty  
> neighborhood and no network access (just my XO icon in the centre)?  
> ifconfig shows eth0 is up, but has no inet address associated with it.  
> Wanted to check before I open another new ticket. Booting back to 2241  
> shows the neighborhood working again.

I haven't updated from 2170 yet, but Ricardo submitted #7776 which
is similar, but he still sees the Mesh entries in the network view.

~Deepak


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Re: The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Albert Cahalan]

Aaron Konstam writes:

> Someone in a recent message suggested that people should learn to
> routinely erase Journal entries to prevent the NAND from filling up.
>
> Unless I have missed something that is a very tedious task to lay on
> someone using the current GUI interface for erasing journal entries.
> Journal entries are added at a steady rate but their removal is a
> tedious "one at a time process". I can't imagine child taking the
> time to keep these entries erased routinely. Another erasure method
> is needed.

I gave up. My journal has 1150 entries, 99% spam.

I don't even want to look in the journal. Not ever! It's unusable.
It's worse than the worst email inbox nightmare. Nothing has a useful
name, the scroll bar doesn't move with my mouse, clicking to mark an
entry takes many seconds to work (leading me to click again), and
the purely iconic interface is totally incomprehensible. I'd even
prefer the dreadful interface of Macintosh System 1.

An improvement would be to delete the datastore at boot. No joke.
The user's files are effectively missing already, because they are
lost among the spam. Stuff saved to the journal is unrecoverable
in any practical way.

In other words: users CAN NOT SAVE THEIR WORK on the XO. Sure, it
may technically get saved, but there is no hope for finding it back.

Clearly, nobody is dogfooding.
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Empty neighborhood on joyride-2248 ?

[Gary C Martin]

Just moved from joyride-2241 to 2248, any one else seeing an empty  
neighborhood and no network access (just my XO icon in the centre)?  
ifconfig shows eth0 is up, but has no inet address associated with it.  
Wanted to check before I open another new ticket. Booting back to 2241  
shows the neighborhood working again.

--Gary

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Re: The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Bastien]

Aaron Konstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Unless I have missed something that is a very tedious task to lay on
> someone using the current GUI interface for erasing journal entries.

In latest joyrides, is there a way to "select all" entries?  (C-a)

This would be useful not only for deleting, but also for copying entries
on the clipboard or on the USB key.

> Journal entries are added at a steady rate but their removal is a
> tedious "one at a time process". I can't imagine child taking the time
> to keep these entries erased routinely. Another erasure method is
> needed.

Yeah.  Adults won't do it neither, unless they get paid for that :)

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New faster build 2249

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build2249

Changes in build 2249 from build: 2246

Size delta: 0.00M

+sugar-xfce-control 0.1-1

--- Included sugar-xfce-control version 0.1-1 ---

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The tedium of erasing journal entries

[Aaron Konstam]

Someone in a recent message suggested that people should learn to
routinely erase Journal entries to prevent the NAND from filling up.

Unless I have missed something that is a very tedious task to lay on
someone using the current GUI interface for erasing journal entries.
Journal entries are added at a steady rate but their removal is a
tedious "one at a time process". I can't imagine child taking the time
to keep these entries erased routinely. Another erasure method is
needed.
--
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defendant please rise?
===
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How do I connect to a Jabber server ?

[Mikus Grinbergs]

Albert just filed a ticket saying that when there is an ethernet 
connection, the user would expect *that* to be used (instead of 
wireless).  I agree.

mikus

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Re: [sugar] Framework for managing the activities (=> symfony project)

[Christoph Derndorfer]

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 6:18 PM, FFM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 10:50:59AM -0500, Bastien wrote:
> > Sébastien Adgnot just pointed me out that the guys behind the symfony
> > project have developed a plugin management framework for they own needs:
> >
> >   http://www.symfony-project.org/
> >   http://www.symfony-project.org/plugins/
> >   http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2008/07/31/plugins-have-a-new-home
> >
> > The structure looks pretty neat, and maybe something like that could be
> > useful on top of the git page for the activities.
>
> Yeah, I heard someone was working on using the code from
> http://addons.mozilla.org.
>

Yes, David Farning mentioned that:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-June/001005.html

Christoph


>
> -FFM
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list)

[Jameson "Chema" Quinn]

>
>
> As opposed to a new list, we could use the "topics" function of mailman to
> enable
> people to select that they only want "python breakage" emails, for example,
> that
> contain a certin regexp. This topic can be addded by the list admin, per
> 


I think tags, or topics, or whatever you call them, would be the perfect
solution. In fact, I suggest that using this feature, we could even start to
merge lists - for instance, devel@ and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list)

[FFM]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 10:43:30AM -0500, Bastien wrote:
> "Martin Langhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > FWIW, Sugar + activities are still somewhat tightly coupled, as Sugar
> > and the underlying OS API are changing. As long as that is true, to
> > maintain an activity to a good standard, you have to keep an eye on
> > devel@ and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > My rule of thumb is to try and keep people together -- recommending
> > filters sometimes -- until the traffic gets so heavy *and* a distinct
> > subcommunity can be split off. IMHO neither is true here (yet!).
> 
> (Fair enough.  In any case, my awareness about Sugar and the activities
> development is not strong enough to dispute about the relevance of such
> a list -- 'was just dropping a few opinions.)

As opposed to a new list, we could use the "topics" function of mailman to 
enable 
people to select that they only want "python breakage" emails, for example, 
that 
contain a certin regexp. This topic can be addded by the list admin, per 


-FFM
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Re: [sugar] Framework for managing the activities (=> symfony project)

[FFM]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 10:50:59AM -0500, Bastien wrote:
> Sébastien Adgnot just pointed me out that the guys behind the symfony
> project have developed a plugin management framework for they own needs:
> 
>   http://www.symfony-project.org/
>   http://www.symfony-project.org/plugins/
>   http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2008/07/31/plugins-have-a-new-home
> 
> The structure looks pretty neat, and maybe something like that could be
> useful on top of the git page for the activities.

Yeah, I heard someone was working on using the code from 
http://addons.mozilla.org.

-FFM
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Framework for managing the activities (=> symfony project)

[Bastien]

Sébastien Adgnot just pointed me out that the guys behind the symfony
project have developed a plugin management framework for they own needs:

  http://www.symfony-project.org/
  http://www.symfony-project.org/plugins/
  http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2008/07/31/plugins-have-a-new-home

The structure looks pretty neat, and maybe something like that could be
useful on top of the git page for the activities.

FWIW.

-- 
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[sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list)

[Bastien]

"Martin Langhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> FWIW, Sugar + activities are still somewhat tightly coupled, as Sugar
> and the underlying OS API are changing. As long as that is true, to
> maintain an activity to a good standard, you have to keep an eye on
> devel@ and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> My rule of thumb is to try and keep people together -- recommending
> filters sometimes -- until the traffic gets so heavy *and* a distinct
> subcommunity can be split off. IMHO neither is true here (yet!).

(Fair enough.  In any case, my awareness about Sugar and the activities
development is not strong enough to dispute about the relevance of such
a list -- 'was just dropping a few opinions.)

-- 
Bastien
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Re: [sugar] video bleeds through somewhat between sessions

[Jameson "Chema" Quinn]

>
>
> Both persons who have answered me have talked about "how things from
> the video frame can be seen".  But I was not looking at video - I
> was looking at TEXT.  If I understand correctly what has been told
> me here, neither the 'black' of the text characters themselves, nor
> the 'white' of the background for the text, should have _allowed_
> "things from the video frame to be seen".  I definitely did not see
> any color.  What I did see was that some parts of the 'black' text
> characters changed briefly to _less_ 'black' (they went black <-->
> gray <--> black) depending on where on *its* screen the ongoing
> video 'session' WOULD HAVE depicted "bright" or "dark" areas.
>

I think that the operating theory is that, around the edges of the "black"
text, there are some pixels which are "grey" (or even, because of the funny
xo color magic, colored?). These pixels would then be "transparent".

Is this consistent with your experience? In other words, is it possible that
the video was fully visible in occasional pixels, instead of partially
visible in all the "black" text pixels?
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Morgan Collett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am happy to take on making this communication happen but I really
> think we need this list.

FWIW, Sugar + activities are still somewhat tightly coupled, as Sugar
and the underlying OS API are changing. As long as that is true, to
maintain an activity to a good standard, you have to keep an eye on
devel@ and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED]

My rule of thumb is to try and keep people together -- recommending
filters sometimes -- until the traffic gets so heavy *and* a distinct
subcommunity can be split off. IMHO neither is true here (yet!).

The flip side is that offering a new ml to a small/medium sized group
is a great way to *kill* that group. It is an excellent troll mgmt
strategy.

cheers,



m
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 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
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Off grid charging-enlightening please?

[Stan. SWAN]

Feedback on my recent trials has left me a tad disheartened about off
grid XO-1 charging, & I wonder if you fine developer folk can help
enlighten me. Just WHAT is presently being used in all these issued XO
regions where schools can't even stretch to a light,rest-rooms or
running water

There are those who say $$$($)($) of centralized solar PV thrown at
this problem by donors may ease the pain,and some (myself included)
favour personal PVs, while others indicate 2010s glorious XO-2 will
run "on the smell of an oily electron". If the latter IS indeed so,
then why bother?   My concern relates RIGHT NOW to  XO rollouts in
ultra cash strapped New Guinea & the Solomon Islands, since  visions
of white (ah- green?) elephants tossed into a jungle school cupboard
are arising. Nigeria's 2007 Galadima school experiences have been
mentioned by the cynical =>
http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/nigeria/olpc_nigeria_one_year_later.html
.

But wait -apparently some of the many churches in these Pacific
regions have budgets that stretch to (evening) generators!  Can't you
just see the kids with flat battery XOs waiting around after school
for this to kick in! Ah-of course secular education wouldn't be
threatened with "a charge for a prayer" obligation would it?  I'm so
confused that my XO enthusiasm is under scrutiny...

Stan
---

Stan. SWAN - Educator/writer/consultant (ICT-Electronics-Sustainable Energy)
EMAIL: => [EMAIL PROTECTED]  & (Work)   => [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CELL:  (64)-021-672-958  HOME: (64)-(4)-562-7494 GST Reg: 36-921-021
POSTAL:  24 Tuatoru St,  Eastbourne-L.H.,  Wellington 5013,  NEW ZEALAND.
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Bastien]

Another simplement argument: this will be clearer for users to know
where to send feedback.  If you have a question about a particular
activity, ask on the activity list.  For other questions ask on the 
Sugar list.

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Re: Odd python proc control / buffering behaviour - fakeroot bug

[Martin Langhoff]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Martin Langhoff
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> something very basic is not working well with Python -

After a couple of days of rumination, it all became clear. Python is
off the hook, instead, I am being hit with a fakeroot bug,
characterised here
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=381016 , and with
trivial repo steps here
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446351 .

Once I knew what the problem was, I found the bug reports and fixes immediately.

The real problem is that fakeroot on Fedora is not up to date - even
on F9. I will follow that up in a separate email :-)

So if you are using fakeroot on a Fedora machine, you have a nasty
race condition right there in the saving of the state file. You've
been warned...

cheers,



martin
-- 
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 - ask interesting questions
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 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list

[Christoph Derndorfer]

2008/8/3 Martin Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 05:10:54PM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Bastien wrote:
> > | - announce new activities
> > | - announce changes in ownership
> > | - check for dead/agonizing/orphaned activities
> > | - discuss API and dependancies issues
> >
> > All of these things are perfect for [EMAIL PROTECTED]  They are precisely 
> > what
> > sugar@ is for.
>
> They do not cover everything sugar@ is for[1], or is currently used
> for (see next point).
>
> > There is no need for an additional mailing list.
>
> I'm not sure I agree - sugar@ has so much traffic not
> relevant to "casual" activity authors (for example, your
> "Congratulations..." thread).
>
> I can't believe I did this, but I went through the July sugar@
> messages and categorized them into ones I thought would be appropriate
> for the AA list and ones not (thus for the current sugar@ list).
>
> Totals:  808 messages
> AA - 293 messages 36.3%
> SS - 515 messages 63.7%
>
> You may see the details here:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~mdengler/sugar_list_july_2008_categorized.txt
>
> > - --Ben
>
> Martin
>
> 1. From http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar :
> Sugar is the internal code name for everything users see. This
> includes the sharing and collaboration experience, base set of tasks,
> and the entire desktop stack. This mailing list is to discuss the
> design and the implementation of that effort.


(adding Sugar back to the conversation, not sure why it was dropped)

I'm generally the first one to argue against YAML (yet-another-mailing-list)
as I'm already subscribed to almost 30 OLPC-related ones...

However I do believe that the idea of a mailing-list targeted to
activity-developers has some merit to it.

Contrary to Albert's comment I don't think an announcement only list for
when the API breaks is enough, this is such a fundamental thing that should
be communicated on all channels (mailing lists, wiki pages, sugar almanac,
you name it) when it happens. The fact that this hasn't been done in the
past just shows how much is lacking when it comes to making it easy for
people to contribute activities without having to follow all the
conversations on sugar, devel, etc.

Looking at the big picture we we should be thinking about how mailing-lists
are going to be used down the road anyway, for example whether there's going
to be a gen. 2 (XOXO) list for all things related to that project. There
we're going to have the same issue that potentially some (but definitely not
all!) issues will overlap with current devel- and sugar discussions, but I
guess that's what cross-posting is for.

Getting back to the discussion at hand: In a perfect world an
activity-developer would not have to worry about "core"-issues as mostly
discussed on sugar and devel, as that stabilized *information* (the outcome
and decisions based on the discussions on the lists) would be accessible
somewhere on the API doc, wiki, sugar-almanac, activity handbook, etc. The
activity-developers mailing-list could then be used to exchange tricks of
the trade, ask questions (such as Alex's current one about the difference
between sugar-launch and launching from the home-view), solicit help for
testing and localization (CC'ing the appropriate mailing-lists in the
process) and just plainly sharing ideas and suggestions for activities
without actually writing them oneself (another big issue because at the
moment we don't have a forum for children, parents, educators, content
creators, graphic designers, etc. to share their input).

Anyway, just my 2 jet lagged euro-cents,
Christoph



>
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-- 
Christoph Derndorfer
Co-Editor, OLPCnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Requesting test help for OFW development release

[Mitch Bradley]

I recently added a workaround to the OFW USB mass storage code so it can 
handle a particular USB-to-MicroSD adapter that was causing problems.

The workaround required some major surgery to the code, specifically to 
the way that errors are propagated through various levels.  I think the 
new version is uniformly better than before, and it passes all my 
tests.  But with USB, you never know, so I'm soliciting testing help 
from the developer community, i.e. XO owners who have developer keys so 
they can install unsigned images.

If you are willing to help, please download and install (1) 
http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q2e12f.rom and test (2) it with any USB 
storage devices - FLASH keys, hard disks, USB to SD adapters, 
multi-readers, MP3 players, etc - that are handy.  I'm particularly 
interested in USB 2.0 devices, but reports about USB 1.1 devices are 
welcome too.

q2e12f.rom is an unofficial build from top of tree, but it's generally 
in good shape, and I don't expect any serious problems with it.

Please report your results by adding comments to 
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7774 .

If you experience any failures, please try the devices with OFW Q2D16 
too, so I will know if the problem is a regression or a longstanding 
problem.

1. To install new firmware:

 - Directly from the network (you need access to an open wireless 
network ):

 ok wifi my-ssid
 ok flash http:\\dev.laptop.org\~wmb

 Actually, there are a couple of alternatives to open wireless.  
If you use WEP, you can say this before the "wifi" line:

  ok wep 1122334455
 or
  ok wep 112233445566778899aabbcc
 depending on the key length.  Those are hex numbers

If you use WPA, you can authenticate with the Pairwise Master 
Key as follows:

   ok pmk 11223344..   \ 32-byte key, i.e. 64 hex digits

 - From a USB key

   Download the image and put it on a USB key in /q2e12f.rom

   ok flash u:\q2e12f.rom


2. To test a USB mass storage device

ok dir disk:\

If it doesn't have an OFW-supported filesystem (FAT, ext2/3) on the 
first partition, you can still test it with:

ok .partitions disk

For multi-card readers, you have to specify the logical unit number for 
the occupied slot.  E.g.:

ok  dir /[EMAIL PROTECTED]:\

Replace the "1" with the number of your slot.  You may have to try 
several slot numbers (0..n) before you find the right one.

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Re: New joyride build 2246

[James Cameron]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 02:50:51AM -0400, Bobby Powers wrote:
> I believe this is the type of stuff Upstart was designed for, and my
> limited testing shows that adding the line
> stop on stopping prefdm
> 
> to the rainbow upstart job sufficiently links rainbow with X.

Excellent.  Much shorter and simpler than my yet to be tested hack, so
I'll leave it where it got up to:

diff --git a/rainbow/rainbow/service.py b/rainbow/rainbow/service.py
index d292dfc..d20e8b3 100644
--- a/rainbow/rainbow/service.py
+++ b/rainbow/rainbow/service.py
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
 import os
+import socket
 from signal import SIGCHLD
 from time import time
 
@@ -137,6 +138,23 @@ class Rainbow(dbus.service.Object):
 util.trace()
 error_cont(e)
 
+def x_hup(source, condition):
+log("X socket hangup")
+os._exit(1)
+
+def x_in(source, condition):
+data = source.recv(12)
+if len(data) > 0:
+return True
+log("X socket closure")
+os._exit(1)
+
+def x_watch():
+sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
+sock.connect(('127.0.0.1', 6000))
+gobject.io_add_watch(sock, gobject.IO_HUP, x_hup)
+gobject.io_add_watch(sock, gobject.IO_IN, x_in)
+
 def run(opts, args):
 """Start the Rainbow DBus service."""
 log("GC'ing spool %s", SPOOL)
@@ -155,4 +173,5 @@ def run(opts, args):
 
 print 'Service running mainloop.'
 mainloop = gobject.MainLoop()
+x_watch()
 mainloop.run()

-- 
James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/
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