RE: #7689 NORM 8.2.0 (: Addition of Bislama Language for Vanuatu
Yes -Original Message- From: Zarro Boogs per Child [mailto:bugtrac...@laptop.org] Sent: Mon 12/04/2010 11:40 AM Cc: b...@lists.laptop.org Subject: Re: #7689 NORM 8.2.0 (: Addition of Bislama Language for Vanuatu #7689: Addition of Bislama Language for Vanuatu +--- Reporter: primaveranz | Owner: primaveranz Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: normal| Milestone: 8.2.0 (was Update.2) Component: localization | Version: not specified Resolution:|Keywords: Next_action: never set |Verified: 0 Deployment_affected:| Blockedby: Blocking:| +--- Comment(by cjl): Can this ticket be closed yet? -- Ticket URL: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7689#comment:2 One Laptop Per Child http://laptop.org/ OLPC bug tracking system winmail.dat___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 17:57 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Finally, I guess you have thought of it, but by the time 10.2 will be out F11 repositories will be down and thus the builds totally frozen software-wise. I think it would have been better to rebase on F12 6 months ago. Now it's way too close to the release date :-( I recommended F-12 which was in beta when this process started but was ignored. I noticed the other day that dsd has created a F-12 branch in git but I think we should be aiming straight for F-13 now. It'll be out in a little over a month, is quite stable already and have will be supported for another 14 months. +1 F13, btw, seems like a very solid release to me. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
olpc-os-builder config tweaks
Hi Chris, I added a mechanism so that we can keep separate the OLPC-specific configuration from the sample config that can be reused by deployments, and I stripped out the OLPC-specific bits from those default configs. So you'll want to create a cjb-specific config file somewhere with this contents: [global] official=1 modules_extra=signing [signing] bios_crypto_path=/home/cjb/git/bios-crypto make_zsp_fs_zip=1 then when making builds, run the program with --additional-defaults=/path/to/cjb-extras.ini Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
I'm guilty of spending more time than I probably should at newgrounds.com, their slogan being Everything, by Everyone. Its a melting pot of free content, and what really impresses me are the absolute gems of creativity that one finds from time to time. I dont see flash as the main XO education content maker, but can see the argument for popularity in the short term. James. 2010/4/12 John Watlington w...@laptop.org On Apr 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM, James Cameron wrote: On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 08:51:01PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: But hey. Flash developers want Flash in it. It's gotta be good for something. My guess is that it is handy for repurposing the system for entertainment usage. (I don't have Flash enabled on my systems, so I don't really know what I'm missing). It's all the rage for games these days. My kids constantly astound me with the rendering quality and interactiveness of flash games that they are able to find for free on the web. Deployments that have asked for Flash also point to games as the reason. wad ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: olpc-os-builder config tweaks
I also fixed a small issue in the configuration where public_rpm packages were not overriding F11 updates...be sure to double-check the list of package changes in the next build. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
Sorry, guys, but I just don't see why the content is somehow corrupted or limited by deployment on the Flash platform.The FlashPlayer implements a virtual machine that is customized by Adobe to run on various hardware and OSs. They're extending it now to ARM-processor-based devices (cell phones). The concept is write-once-run-everywhere. The FlashPlayer runs inside browsers or stand-alone (AIR). The programming language it supports (ActionScript) is now a very capable language, has libraries (both free and not-free) for lots of goodies including very rich graphical interfaces, has a powerful declarative xml-based language (Flex MXML) for building the interfaces and binding data to them, has an open-source free-to-use (from Adobe) compiler, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, has a superb IDE from Adobe that only costs $249 for the standard version which includes a visual drag-and-drop design view mode as well as text mode of programming and lots of features lacking in the FOSS FlashDevelop, etc. One can program and run Flash programs with free-to-use software. I know of a very capable interactive web site (www.vyew.com, try the demo and see) that runs extremely nicely and was built with the open source IDE. Vyew.com runs on my XO, but I had to install the Teapot distribution of Xubuntu on an SD card and run Firefox with FlashPlayer plugin.It runs an interactive whiteboard plus 2-way video and audio on my little XO-1, and it supports plug-in extensions that users can build. If the Vyew developers can do this with free tools, why can't the OLPC community use Flash as a platform? So, please explain why constructionist educational models can't be programmed and run on the Flash platform just as well or better than in Python on Sugar on Fedora. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:31 AM, James Zaki james.z...@gmail.com wrote: I'm guilty of spending more time than I probably should at newgrounds.com, their slogan being Everything, by Everyone. Its a melting pot of free content, and what really impresses me are the absolute gems of creativity that one finds from time to time. I dont see flash as the main XO education content maker, but can see the argument for popularity in the short term. James. 2010/4/12 John Watlington w...@laptop.org On Apr 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM, James Cameron wrote: On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 08:51:01PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: But hey. Flash developers want Flash in it. It's gotta be good for something. My guess is that it is handy for repurposing the system for entertainment usage. (I don't have Flash enabled on my systems, so I don't really know what I'm missing). It's all the rage for games these days. My kids constantly astound me with the rendering quality and interactiveness of flash games that they are able to find for free on the web. Deployments that have asked for Flash also point to games as the reason. wad ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.net wrote: So, please explain why constructionist educational models can't be Nobody has stated that it can't be done. But experience shows the opposite correlation (and I have worked in many edu projects using Flash myself, some huge such as TLF's SOCCI). Maybe it's a cultural problem (ie: people who get excited with Flash things singing and dancing tend to build shiny stuff rather than deep rich stuff with no ceiling). Please change our opinion -- build something outstanding for learning with low barriers of entry and no ceiling :-) m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
You can see the Xubuntu system running on our XO-1 at: Internet Math Tutoring / OLPC Project http://internetmathtutoring.com/olpc/static.php?page=static090711-100100. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.netwrote: Sorry, guys, but I just don't see why the content is somehow corrupted or limited by deployment on the Flash platform.The FlashPlayer implements a virtual machine that is customized by Adobe to run on various hardware and OSs. They're extending it now to ARM-processor-based devices (cell phones). The concept is write-once-run-everywhere. The FlashPlayer runs inside browsers or stand-alone (AIR). The programming language it supports (ActionScript) is now a very capable language, has libraries (both free and not-free) for lots of goodies including very rich graphical interfaces, has a powerful declarative xml-based language (Flex MXML) for building the interfaces and binding data to them, has an open-source free-to-use (from Adobe) compiler, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, has a superb IDE from Adobe that only costs $249 for the standard version which includes a visual drag-and-drop design view mode as well as text mode of programming and lots of features lacking in the FOSS FlashDevelop, etc. One can program and run Flash programs with free-to-use software. I know of a very capable interactive web site (www.vyew.com, try the demo and see) that runs extremely nicely and was built with the open source IDE. Vyew.com runs on my XO, but I had to install the Teapot distribution of Xubuntu on an SD card and run Firefox with FlashPlayer plugin.It runs an interactive whiteboard plus 2-way video and audio on my little XO-1, and it supports plug-in extensions that users can build. If the Vyew developers can do this with free tools, why can't the OLPC community use Flash as a platform? So, please explain why constructionist educational models can't be programmed and run on the Flash platform just as well or better than in Python on Sugar on Fedora. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:31 AM, James Zaki james.z...@gmail.com wrote: I'm guilty of spending more time than I probably should at newgrounds.com, their slogan being Everything, by Everyone. Its a melting pot of free content, and what really impresses me are the absolute gems of creativity that one finds from time to time. I dont see flash as the main XO education content maker, but can see the argument for popularity in the short term. James. 2010/4/12 John Watlington w...@laptop.org On Apr 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM, James Cameron wrote: On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 08:51:01PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: But hey. Flash developers want Flash in it. It's gotta be good for something. My guess is that it is handy for repurposing the system for entertainment usage. (I don't have Flash enabled on my systems, so I don't really know what I'm missing). It's all the rage for games these days. My kids constantly astound me with the rendering quality and interactiveness of flash games that they are able to find for free on the web. Deployments that have asked for Flash also point to games as the reason. wad ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
stanley wrote: You can see the Xubuntu system running on our XO-1 at: Internet Math Tutoring / OLPC Project http://internetmathtutoring.com/olpc/static.php?page=static090711-100100. what does this have to do with flash? On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.netwrote: ... interfaces and binding data to them, has an open-source free-to-use (from Adobe) compiler, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, does this run on the XO? paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
Hi, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, does this run on the XO? Nope. We're to believe that Flash is appropriate for constructionism on the XO even though it doesn't allow XO users to construct anything. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
Hey Chris, On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os119 Compressed image size: 678.36mb (+0.01mb since build 118) Description of changes in this build: * kernel: allow negotiation of 5/10/15/30fps (#10106) With this change, Record should be able to record audio+video together, although you'll still need to VT switch away and back if you get a black Xv overlay as described in http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10068. Package changes since build 118: -kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100331.1824.1.olpc.5944795.i586 +kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586 -kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100331.1824.1.olpc.5944795.i586 +kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586 I've got some more time and have finally had a chance to look at these further. From an initial looks it looks like your getting exim due to the cronie deps on /usr/bin/sendmail. If you add an explicit 'ssmtp' into the .ks that will provide that dep instead. Also it looks like inkscape and the burning tools are the only other things that require perl. I'm hoping the inkscape issue will be fixed before F-11 goes EOL, and I'm not sure whether the olpc burnin tools are a requirement for the final shipping image or how large the perl dep is there. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
That page shows Vyew.com running on Xubuntu on the XO-1. In my experience, Vyew.com is something outstanding for learning with low barriers of entry and no ceiling that Martin asked to see built with Flash. (Stanford University uses Vyew for its Stanford Engineering Everywherehttp://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_viewnewsId=20080917005182newsLang=enplatform, so Stanford agrees that Vyew is worthwhile for a learning/teaching platform.) The Xubuntu (or Fedora) system could be stripped further to make it extremely austere (only the icons and menus you want the student to see), much like Sugar. The point is that a no ceiling application like Vyew, which is a teaching and learning platform on which creative minds can build interactive educational experiences, can be built in Flash to run on an XO. I'm not suggesting that the OLPC developers try to recreate Vyew. I'm saying that Vyew shows how capable the Flash platform is, even using free tools to build and deploy it. From what I've been reading from OLPC contributors, there seems to be a dichotomy between people who want to keep the system pure free-open-source versus others who are more interested in getting something good built even if it incorporates some free but not open source software. I'm a pragmatist. Until FOSS can provide the tools I need to create what I want, I'm not averse to using what I can get now and porting to FOSS later when it catches up. Stan On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote: stanley wrote: You can see the Xubuntu system running on our XO-1 at: Internet Math Tutoring / OLPC Project http://internetmathtutoring.com/olpc/static.php?page=static090711-100100. what does this have to do with flash? On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.netwrote: ... interfaces and binding data to them, has an open-source free-to-use (from Adobe) compiler, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, does this run on the XO? paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On 12 April 2010 14:51, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I've got some more time and have finally had a chance to look at these further. From an initial looks it looks like your getting exim due to the cronie deps on /usr/bin/sendmail. If you add an explicit 'ssmtp' into the .ks that will provide that dep instead. Also it looks like inkscape and the burning tools are the only other things that require perl. I'm hoping the inkscape issue will be fixed before F-11 goes EOL, and I'm not sure whether the olpc burnin tools are a requirement for the final shipping image or how large the perl dep is there. Which burnin package are you referring to? olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch? Thanks, Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On 12 April 2010 14:51, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I've got some more time and have finally had a chance to look at these further. From an initial looks it looks like your getting exim due to the cronie deps on /usr/bin/sendmail. If you add an explicit 'ssmtp' into the .ks that will provide that dep instead. Also it looks like inkscape and the burning tools are the only other things that require perl. I'm hoping the inkscape issue will be fixed before F-11 goes EOL, and I'm not sure whether the olpc burnin tools are a requirement for the final shipping image or how large the perl dep is there. Which burnin package are you referring to? olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch? I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
I guess I don't understand constructionism. Is it reasonable to require that the development system run on the target machine?If Apple had this requirement, all of the iPhone/iPod/iPad applications would be gone. We wouldn't have any of the millions of devices (mp3 players, routers, modems, fax machines, cell phones, etc.) that have embedded processors not capable of running their development tools. The XO is the target machine. It's unreasonable to restrict development to tools that run on the XO. The FlashPlayer runs on the XO (with appropriate OS underlying it). That's more than sufficient to build rich educational interactive constructionist applications.This is an education project, after all.Developers in countries where the XO is targeted can surely get a little netbook to run the Flash IDE as a development tool.Even as the hardware moves on to better, faster, bigger guts, even with radically different processor architectures, the developed applications will still run once the Flash player is ported to the new computers. Stan On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, does this run on the XO? Nope. We're to believe that Flash is appropriate for constructionism on the XO even though it doesn't allow XO users to construct anything. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On 04/12/2010 02:10 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: Which burnin package are you referring to? olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch? I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. The runin scripts are all bash. Not sure why perl would be a dependency. Perhaps one of the commands that the runin tests call needs perl? I created them on the XO so anything that I used should have already been installed. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
Nobody has stated that it can't be done. But experience shows the opposite correlation (and I have worked in many edu projects using Flash myself, some huge such as TLF's SOCCI). Maybe it's a cultural problem (ie: people who get excited with Flash things singing and dancing tend to build shiny stuff rather than deep rich stuff with no ceiling). Martin, how is this Flash's fault? This is a problem with the authors creating sub-quality content or having poor source material or terrible developers, not a problem with the platform itself. If your educational content is poor, it's going to remain poor no matter what platform you use. If Flash was such a terrible platform for creating e-learning materials, how come over 50% of the e-learning demand outsourced over here is for Flash? (by the way, kids love shiny stuff. it helps 'em learn and pay attention if stuff is shiny.) Please change our opinion -- build something outstanding for learning with low barriers of entry and no ceiling :-) There are 26,909 *FREE* Flash games on Kongregate alone -- a lot, if not most of the really fun ones made by amateur self-taught one-man gangs. How high a barrier of entry is that if those guys were able to make multimedia games, something even most real programmers find challenging, given that there are now free supported tools? I don't know what you mean by ceiling. Also, games, games, games, games, games. If you can make education fun, kids will to learn better. I was lucky enough to have had access to a PC in my childhood with a number of educational games bought by my parents. Because of those games, I was able to get a leg up on my classmates in Math, English and creativity lateral thinking as opposed to my other classmates. Because of my exposure to the PC, I also started coding BASIC games at 10 years old (starting with books from the library) and was actually already messing around with Algebra when almost everyone else only got exposed to it in freshman high school. I don't think I would have been as smart a kid if all I had were books, school, teachers and no educational computer games. Moreover, think of the possibilities for OLPC if you could tap just 5% of those Flash game developers to volunteer for edu-games. Head over to the list of submissions to the 2009 Mochi Media + Dictionary.com word game contest: http://www.mochimedia.com/contest/may09/games There are some really great word games in there. What if we send an invite and could get just 20 of those guys to contribute? I admit, things are very bleak for Flash performance on the XO-1 given the extremely high resolution (it taxes the vector rasterizing engine because of the massive increase of pixels that have to be pushed), but for the XO-1.5, I think the sky's the limit. Aside from poor performance on the XO-1, what exactly is it that makes Flash much worse than any other content-authoring platform? -Naz -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
stanley wrote: I guess I don't understand constructionism. i think that's right. Is it reasonable to require that the development system run on the target machine? yes. it's one of the reasons most activities, and many of the system, is coded in python. If Apple had this requirement, all of the iPhone/iPod/iPad applications would be gone. We wouldn't have any of the millions of devices (mp3 players, routers, modems, fax machines, cell phones, etc.) that of course. but i don't think any of those would be considered educational tools, let alone embodiments of constructionism. (and nor would you, i'd guess.) have embedded processors not capable of running their development tools. The XO is the target machine. It's unreasonable to restrict development to tools that run on the XO. it's not that unreasonable. kids learn by doing, and exploring. that's kind of the whole point of constructionism. if you give someone a game written using python and pygame, they can (in principle) modify that game to change the playing rules. if you give them that same game written in flash, they can't. it's really as simple as that. whether one agrees with the notion that this is important will vary, of course. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
smith wrote: On 04/12/2010 02:10 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: Which burnin package are you referring to? olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch? I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. The runin scripts are all bash. Not sure why perl would be a dependency. Perhaps one of the commands that the runin tests call needs perl? I created them on the XO so anything that I used should have already been installed. but dependencies don't get created automatically. it must be due to something in your spec file, no? paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.com wrote: Martin, how is this Flash's fault? I didn't say it was its fault -- I did point out the same cultural issue you mention. And shiny distracts. You are writing very long emails and not pointing to compelling deep and rich stuff. Maybe what Stanley mentions is worthwhile. That'd be news :-) m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On 04/12/2010 02:34 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: perl? I created them on the XO so anything that I used should have already been installed. Except for where I specified extra stuff I needed. :) like lm_sensors which requires perl. So I need to find a way to read the CPU temp without lm_sensors or we somehow need to break lm_sensors use of perl. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote: On 04/12/2010 02:34 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: perl? I created them on the XO so anything that I used should have already been installed. Except for where I specified extra stuff I needed. :) like lm_sensors which requires perl. So I need to find a way to read the CPU temp without lm_sensors or we somehow need to break lm_sensors use of perl. Ah :-D Let me have a look at lm_sensors and see what there depends on it and see if we can't get it split out into a perl sub package. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On 12 April 2010 15:45, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote: Except for where I specified extra stuff I needed. :) like lm_sensors which requires perl. So I need to find a way to read the CPU temp without lm_sensors or we somehow need to break lm_sensors use of perl. It's really easy to read from sysfs. I wish we had some XO's here to test. This should give some clues: find /sys -name '*cputemp*' Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Fwd: Flash + AIR on OLPC
-- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.net Date: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC To: Paul Fox p...@laptop.org Sorry, Paul, I just can't accept the idea that the target audience of the OLPC projects must necessarily include kids who are capable and interested in re-programming the software activities they're using.Moreover, would you want to modify and re-compile your application software (for example, Firefox) just to change the way it behaves with respect to which home page, web site filters, cookies, etc. etc.? That's what configuration options are for. Even if you want more versatility, the application can implement rules in xml or an application-specific mini-language or whatever. Rebuilding an application in Python should be a last resort and not even for the 99.% of target users of the system. How do you define constructionism in this context? Stan On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote: stanley wrote: I guess I don't understand constructionism. i think that's right. Is it reasonable to require that the development system run on the target machine? yes. it's one of the reasons most activities, and many of the system, is coded in python. If Apple had this requirement, all of the iPhone/iPod/iPad applications would be gone. We wouldn't have any of the millions of devices (mp3 players, routers, modems, fax machines, cell phones, etc.) that of course. but i don't think any of those would be considered educational tools, let alone embodiments of constructionism. (and nor would you, i'd guess.) have embedded processors not capable of running their development tools. The XO is the target machine. It's unreasonable to restrict development to tools that run on the XO. it's not that unreasonable. kids learn by doing, and exploring. that's kind of the whole point of constructionism. if you give someone a game written using python and pygame, they can (in principle) modify that game to change the playing rules. if you give them that same game written in flash, they can't. it's really as simple as that. whether one agrees with the notion that this is important will vary, of course. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On 12 April 2010 14:51, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I've got some more time and have finally had a chance to look at these further. From an initial looks it looks like your getting exim due to the cronie deps on /usr/bin/sendmail. If you add an explicit 'ssmtp' into the .ks that will provide that dep instead. Also it looks like inkscape and the burning tools are the only other things that require perl. I'm hoping the inkscape issue will be fixed before F-11 goes EOL, and I'm not sure whether the olpc burnin tools are a requirement for the final shipping image or how large the perl dep is there. Which burnin package are you referring to? olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch? I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. Yes that is the one. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS: Lanbond0 and eth0 problem
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote: On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 10:40 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Juan G. Narvaez gnrvz...@gmail.com wrote: I made some changes on the ks.cfg file like keyboard layout, timezone, etc... Can an alteration of ks.cfg be part of the problem? Obviously, an different that ifcfg* configuration. Talking last night with Guillermo, he confirmed that a customisation in the ks.cfg had caused a conflict with our network stuff. He's now getting consistently successful XS installs. m Let me guess, there was a setting of the network parameters in the kickstart file? I got around that by changing the git command in %post to not do a checkout for eth0, just for eth1, letting the anaconda version of ifcfg-eth0 remain on the system. The only result is that the ifcfg-eth0 file doesn't reference /etc/sysconfig/xs_network_config, for it's external network info. Martin, what is the usage of having the XS in server role other than 1? Perhaps going forward we should just manage eth1, using the available tools on the os to allow users to set eth0 in a more normal way. Jerry ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel Speaking of the network, do we have a logical diagram of the network on the XS (interface, bond memberships, etc) ? Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Campus Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: Fwd: Flash + AIR on OLPC
stanley wrote: Sorry, Paul, I just can't accept the idea that the target audience of the OLPC projects must necessarily include kids who are capable and interested in re-programming the software activities they're using.Moreover, would you want to modify and re-compile your application software (for example, Firefox) just to change the way it behaves with respect to which home page, web site filters, cookies, etc. etc.? That's what configuration options are for. Even if you want more versatility, the application can implement rules in xml or an application-specific mini-language or whatever. Rebuilding an application in Python should be a last resort and not even for the 99.% of target users of the system. these are all strawmen, and i won't bother arguing them seriously. in fact, one of the reasons i wouldn't modify firefox as you suggest is _precisely_ because i probably don't have the source and tools at hand, and it will be difficult (yes, even though it's open source) to obtain them and configure all of the prerequesites. (ironically, the barrier to entry for modifying my own kernel is far lower than for modifying my browser, though the stakes are higher, of course. ;-) the barrier to entry for modifying applications written in a scripting language are lower still, and i'm more likely to do so, or, at least, to examine the code to see why something works the way it does. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On 04/12/2010 02:51 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: find /sys -name '*cputemp*' /sys/devices/platform/via_cputemp.0 Awesome! I'll change my scripts and remove that dependency. Thanks. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS: Lanbond0 and eth0 problem
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote: Speaking of the network, do we have a logical diagram of the network on the XS (interface, bond memberships, etc) ? Not that I know of. I posted here explaining my plan right before implementing it, and it did have some mappings. For a more graphic diagram, a fractal generator might help mapping out the current setup. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: From: Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org Subject: Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119 To: Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com Cc: Devel devel@lists.laptop.org, Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 9:15 AM On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 17:57 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Finally, I guess you have thought of it, but by the time 10.2 will be out F11 repositories will be down and thus the builds totally frozen software-wise. I think it would have been better to rebase on F12 6 months ago. Now it's way too close to the release date :-( I recommended F-12 which was in beta when this process started but was ignored. I noticed the other day that dsd has created a F-12 branch in git but I think we should be aiming straight for F-13 now. It'll be out in a little over a month, is quite stable already and have will be supported for another 14 months. +1 F13, btw, seems like a very solid release to me. I do not know why re-basing on F13 will reach deployment status much faster than F11 and will not be at the same point a year from now. The XO is a _production_ machine. Makes no sense to run development/short-lived OS. Maybe the RHEL/CentOS idea should not be dismissed, if feasible. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ olpc mailing list o...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/olpc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. Gentlemen - on some of my XO-1s I've installed perl onto my permanent SD card, rather than having it occupy jffs2. By doing so, I've saved about 33 MB of space in jffs2. Is that a large enough savings (given a 4000 MB XO-1.5) to be worth spending this much discussion on ? mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. Gentlemen - on some of my XO-1s I've installed perl onto my permanent SD card, rather than having it occupy jffs2. By doing so, I've saved about 33 MB of space in jffs2. Is that a large enough savings (given a 4000 MB XO-1.5) to be worth spending this much discussion on ? Everything helps, and this is also relevant for the XO-1. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
Hi, Gentlemen - on some of my XO-1s I've installed perl onto my permanent SD card, rather than having it occupy jffs2. By doing so, I've saved about 33 MB of space in jffs2. Is that a large enough savings (given a 4000 MB XO-1.5) to be worth spending this much discussion on ? Yes, because some XO-1.5s may have 2GB, and your 33MB is compressed size whereas the XO-1.5 uses an uncompressed fs -- the used space on 1.5 may be several times your 33MB. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: From: Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org Subject: Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119 To: Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com Cc: Devel devel@lists.laptop.org, Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 9:15 AM On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 17:57 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Finally, I guess you have thought of it, but by the time 10.2 will be out F11 repositories will be down and thus the builds totally frozen software-wise. I think it would have been better to rebase on F12 6 months ago. Now it's way too close to the release date :-( I recommended F-12 which was in beta when this process started but was ignored. I noticed the other day that dsd has created a F-12 branch in git but I think we should be aiming straight for F-13 now. It'll be out in a little over a month, is quite stable already and have will be supported for another 14 months. +1 F13, btw, seems like a very solid release to me. I do not know why re-basing on F13 will reach deployment status much faster than F11 and will not be at the same point a year from now. The XO is a _production_ machine. Makes no sense to run development/short-lived OS. Maybe the RHEL/CentOS idea should not be dismissed, if feasible. In the longer term its likely that it will be. The libraries in CentOS 5 are too old. The problem is that RHEL-6 isn't out yet, nor is there any announcements when it will be, then from there the CentOS team need to review, engineer, QA and release CentOS 6. Then you need to build/test/QA sugar etc for it. It will then be OK for a while until Sugar needs a newer version of a library that is static on CentOS due to the support requirements. And then it reverts to Fedora. And before you mention Ubuntu LTS, the previous LTS has the same version issues, the current one will still have the same problems going forward. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
There's been all this discussion of AIR. I am unfamiliar with AIR. My question : Why would I (as an user) __need__ AIR ? I do not mind using a browser, nor do I mind installing a special-purpose plugin into my browser in order to access particular material. But what does AIR provide that for instance the combination of latest Firefox plus latest Adobe Flash plugin would not provide ? Thanks, mikus p.s. People keep showing various Linux platforms (e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, etc) running on the XO. As far as I am concerned, if these people *want* to run Ubuntu, Debian, etc., then buying a modern netbook for that purpose will give them better performance than using the XO. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
Gentlemen - on some of my XO-1s I've installed perl onto my permanent SD card, rather than having it occupy jffs2. By doing so, I've saved about 33 MB of space in jffs2. Is that a large enough savings (given a 4000 MB XO-1.5) to be worth spending this much discussion on ? Yes, because some XO-1.5s may have 2GB, and your 33MB is compressed size whereas the XO-1.5 uses an uncompressed fs -- the used space on 1.5 may be several times your 33MB. The 33 MB I gave is not compressed - it is what 'du' tells me about the directory tree on the SD card where I have (all of) perl installed. I have not added up how much space is taken up by having /versions in addition to what is needed to run a build - but I suspect the current overhead exceeds 100 MB. That's where I would start saving space. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: From: Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com Subject: Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119 To: Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com Cc: Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org, Devel devel@lists.laptop.org, Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 3:56 PM On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: From: Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org Subject: Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119 To: Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com Cc: Devel devel@lists.laptop.org, Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 9:15 AM On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 17:57 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Finally, I guess you have thought of it, but by the time 10.2 will be out F11 repositories will be down and thus the builds totally frozen software-wise. I think it would have been better to rebase on F12 6 months ago. Now it's way too close to the release date :-( I recommended F-12 which was in beta when this process started but was ignored. I noticed the other day that dsd has created a F-12 branch in git but I think we should be aiming straight for F-13 now. It'll be out in a little over a month, is quite stable already and have will be supported for another 14 months. +1 F13, btw, seems like a very solid release to me. I do not know why re-basing on F13 will reach deployment status much faster than F11 and will not be at the same point a year from now. The XO is a _production_ machine. Makes no sense to run development/short-lived OS. Maybe the RHEL/CentOS idea should not be dismissed, if feasible. In the longer term its likely that it will be. The libraries in CentOS 5 are too old. The problem is that RHEL-6 isn't out yet, nor is there any announcements when it will be, then from there the CentOS team need to review, engineer, QA and release CentOS 6. Then you need to build/test/QA sugar etc for it. It will then be OK for a while until Sugar needs a newer version of a library that is static on CentOS due to the support requirements. And then it reverts to Fedora. And before you mention Ubuntu LTS, the previous LTS has the same version issues, the current one will still have the same problems going forward. Maybe so, but the fact is that going forward actually means that the XOs are still running F9, and hopping to get an EOL F11 in the next few months. So at the end of the day this needed library is not actually used by the vast majority of the actual users. I repeat that the XO, and education in general, is/needs _production_ machines. Given the resources and the development rate, a 3-4 years OS support should be the minimum I think, even if the feature requiring that library is not implemented. Just my 2c. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: In the longer term its likely that it will be. The libraries in CentOS 5 are too old. The problem is that RHEL-6 isn't out yet, nor is there At least this XS guy is hopefuly that RHEL-6 will appear soon and XS 0.7 or 0.8 will be based on it (or matching CentOS). When we need latest and greatest (kernel, xorg, etc) Fedora is unbeatable. But that same speed hurts. At least the XS clearly doesn't need latest and greatest except for very specific packages. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
It will then be OK for a while until Sugar needs a newer version of a library I think there is an elephant in the living room to which too little attention is being paid. Consider Peru - they have a lot of XO-1 systems, on which it is unlikely that the newest version of Sugar will ever be installed. But Peru *might* want to add a Linux utility into their systems -- for that they need access to a package repository with the same-level software as the rest of the software they already have. What I am saying is that for many deployments, a need for newer libraries will probably never exist -- but a need for older libraries is more likely to arise. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
tool elitism
And shiny distracts. Then write an app that's not shiny. Can you please get over your gut revulsion? I have the same reaction to Macs. has a free-open-source IDE (FlashDevelop) from a community, does this run on the XO? Nope. We're to believe that Flash is appropriate for constructionism on the XO even though it doesn't allow XO users to construct anything. Yes it does. All you need is any text editor to write AS3 code + the basic MXML container, JRE, Flex SDK, and a command line. It's the exact same thing as Java development except you substitute JRE + Flex SDK for JDK. You don't need Flashdevelop. It's just an AS editor with auto-complete, project management compiler linking. It doesn't run on Linux because it was built with .NET. All you need is the above, GIMP for images, then Audacity and a microphone for sound. I don't see how the process is any less different or how it's evil given the fact that it's the exact same situation as back in '97 when they made the switch from C to Java as initial medium of instruction at our university. (yeah yeah, lazy kids these days don't know how to do malloc, linked lists, blah blah blah) Anyway, feel free to ask me technical questions on toolsets needed, workflow, etc. Be warned though, that I'm mostly a windows user and mostly dip into Ubuntu (If I could just run all my worktools and games in there, I'd have already fully migrated from XP). (I find Fedora to be too bloated for my taste... 4GB of hard disk space default for Werewolf? Bah.) Ok, changing topics now. - I suppose most of you guys have heard by now what Steve Jobs did last Thursday. For those of you who haven't, Apple released the iPhone OS 4 beta SDK which featured the new developer terms of service in the now infamous Section 3.3.1: 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be ORIGINALLY written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited). --- Essentially developers are no longer allowed to choose 3rd-party tools they are comfortable with and only apps developed with tools approved by Apple are allowed on the iPhone App Store. Affected by this are Novell's Monotouch (C#/.NET to iPhone), Ansca Mobile Corona (LUA to iPhone), Flash CS5 (AS3 to iPhone), Unity3D, Appcelerator Titanium. I won't go into it in-depth here, if anyone's interested just Google around. I'm also writing an article about it and if anyone's interested, I'll share the link once it's up. Please give this letter from Corey Johnson a read: http://probablyinteractive.com/2010/4/11/letter-to-steve-jobs.html Now change Objective-C to Python. Objective-C is not a filter for crappy apps, it's not the magical ingredient for an amazing app, it is just a tool. Have faith in developers again, don't shackle us to a single tool, let us decide which language fits our needs best. Okay. My question is, aside from the fact that you need to shell out cash to do iPhone dev and that both apple and developers are doing it for the money, what now differentiates OLPC/Sugar from the iPhone? Isn't that also a form of walled-garden lock-in? What I'm saying is that there's an army of us out there who can be willing to volunteer and dev for the XO. However, a lot of us don't have the luxury to learn Python/Sugarization or maybe just work best with the tools we're comfortable with. Most of us are Windows users too. Can't we volunteer to develop content for the OLPC with our tools if they can run decently and play well? I can't believe I'm saying this (shudder), but aside from Flash, why not also look into Moonlight and maybe ask Microsoft for help getting it running well so that C#,VB .NET coders can also contribute content for the XO? ***cue gasps of horror and disbelief from entire room*** *awkward silence* Uh... I'm also very fond of Processing. It runs okay for me on the XO-1, just a bit slow and the obvious problem with Sugar since processing is generally multi-window. Okay, kidding aside, what's the point of developing hardware and software for OLPC anyway? Aren't these just delivery mechanisms for educational content? What do kids and teachers care what computer language they're written in anyway as long as they work well on their machines and play nice? Look. I'm really serious here. What if there are thousands of us out there who want to develop content for OLPC, but just can't because it's Python/Sugar? And what's so evil with free as in beer if there's no ulterior motive to raise a generation of locked-in consumers behind it? (sure MS could benefit. Sure Adobe could benefit. Can you blame them if they make great tools that allow
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: It will then be OK for a while until Sugar needs a newer version of a library I think there is an elephant in the living room to which too little attention is being paid. Consider Peru - they have a lot of XO-1 systems, on which it is unlikely that the newest version of Sugar will ever be installed. But Peru *might* want to add a Linux utility into their systems -- for that they need access to a package repository with the same-level software as the rest of the software they already have. What I am saying is that for many deployments, a need for newer libraries will probably never exist -- but a need for older libraries is more likely to arise. I'm not saying its not the right direction and it might be almost time to move there but I've also seen hacked up versions of old Fedora in the past just to get the later version of some telepathy library, and Tomeu's work to bring sugar inline with the rest of telepathy and allow support of other IM interfaces in the next release might well be an example of this. Believe me I'll be one of the first poeple adding the sugar packages to EL-6 branches and testing them but its not necessarily the golden path that some people think. In the short term of the first 12 months it will be fine, 18 months to 2.5 years it won't seem as good. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AIR + other Linux Flavors
There's been all this discussion of AIR. I am unfamiliar with AIR. My question : Why would I (as an user) __need__ AIR ? I do not mind using a browser, nor do I mind installing a special-purpose plugin into my browser in order to access particular material. But what does AIR provide that for instance the combination of latest Firefox plus latest Adobe Flash plugin would not provide ? Hey Mikus! AIR basically extends Flash outside the sandbox of the browser and into the desktop/mobile device with additional hooks to the system. For example, you have file read/write access. Think of it as a cross platform replacement for Flash .EXE projectors on steroids. It runs on Windows, Macs, Linux, and soon other mobile devices. p.s. People keep showing various Linux platforms (e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, etc) running on the XO. As far as I am concerned, if these people *want* to run Ubuntu, Debian, etc., then buying a modern netbook for that purpose will give them better performance than using the XO. 1) Because the XO is good ruggedized power-efficient hardware? Because we believe in the hardware and the incredible engineering work that went into it? 2) Because we want to support OLPC? Please don't tell me OLPC is selling units at a loss. 3) IMHO Sugar is limiting for older children and less suitable for high school and college use. The hiding of the traditional filesystem and replacing it with the journal is really too problematic and unwieldy for sharing files in excess of 50. Copying an html ebook composed of multiple HTML files becomes a complete mess. Users shouldn't have to go to the trouble of sugarizing those just to read them. They should be able to just share them via usb stick and copy-paste the folders. Also if there are any objections, what's wrong with providing XOs for high school and college level? Students need laptops a lot even more then because of reports and papers. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: tool elitism
Hi, Okay. My question is, aside from the fact that you need to shell out cash to do iPhone dev and that both apple and developers are doing it for the money, what now differentiates OLPC/Sugar from the iPhone? Isn't that also a form of walled-garden lock-in? .. seriously? I don't know how we can have a conversation with such hyperbole. We aren't preventing any developer from doing anything, and many non-Python activities already exist and are popular. The comparison is entirely unfounded. - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On 12 April 2010 15:10, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. On XO-1.5 running something very close to 10.2.0 build 119, it wants to remove many components including anacron, yum, rpm, ds-backup-client, olpc-update, ... This is a dependency problem because you don't have ssmtp installed to provide the sendmail requirement that all these packages need. Personally I always install ssmtp instead of sendmail on all my embedded respins. -Jon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AIR + other Linux Flavors
There's been all this discussion of AIR. I am unfamiliar with AIR. My question : Why would I (as an user) __need__ AIR ? I do not mind using a browser, nor do I mind installing a special-purpose plugin into my browser in order to access particular material. But what does AIR provide that for instance the combination of latest Firefox plus latest Adobe Flash plugin would not provide ? Hey Mikus! AIR basically extends Flash outside the sandbox of the browser and into the desktop/mobile device with additional hooks to the system. For example, you have file read/write access. Think of it as a cross platform replacement for Flash .EXE projectors on steroids. It runs on Windows, Macs, Linux, and soon other mobile devices. I think you've made my point. I see no __need__ for me to extend Flash into the desktop by means of additional hooks to the system. I'm quite satisfied with my system the way it is. If I needed read/write access to remote files, then there exist traditional facilities for that purpose. For instance I could use ssh to access remote locations -- why should I bother to learn yet another application (I have no intention of accessing Windows, or mobile devices.) Having never encountered any .EXE projectors on steroids, I doubt whether I have a need for suchlike, either. Thanks for your answer - though I'll remain a skeptic. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: It will then be OK for a while until Sugar needs a newer version of a library I think there is an elephant in the living room to which too little attention is being paid. Consider Peru - they have a lot of XO-1 systems, on which it is unlikely that the newest version of Sugar will ever be installed. But Peru *might* want to add a Linux utility into their systems -- for that they need access to a package repository with the same-level software as the rest of the software they already have. What I am saying is that for many deployments, a need for newer libraries will probably never exist -- but a need for older libraries is more likely to arise. I'm not saying its not the right direction and it might be almost time to move there but I've also seen hacked up versions of old Fedora in the past just to get the later version of some telepathy library, and Tomeu's work to bring sugar inline with the rest of telepathy and allow support of other IM interfaces in the next release might well be an example of this. Believe me I'll be one of the first poeple adding the sugar packages to EL-6 branches and testing them but its not necessarily the golden path that some people think. In the short term of the first 12 months it will be fine, 18 months to 2.5 years it won't seem as good. I am not seeing where the 18 months to 2.5 years breakdown happens. You have a base OS that is being supported for security updates by the largest Linux vendor for the next 6 years. For the small subset of packages that you need a more recent version of, i.e. the kernel and telepathy, you would just release in an OLPC yum repository. This is already being done for the kernel and other OLPC specific packages, so really there is little overhead to this path. We are getting to a point where the core components of linux on the desktop are matured such that a core refresh really isn't needed every 6 months. NetworkManager, PackageKit, PolicyKit provide a lot of what the desktop needs from an administration point (Yes I didn't mention Pulseaudio, maybe soon :-)). For the first time in a long time I really don't see any major changes in the near future that will really be a roadblock to a stable distribution rolled out in the next year. -Jon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 13:29 -0700, Jon Nettleton wrote: Has there been any discussion on whether CentOS was an option as a base for the distro? With RHEL/CentOS 6 hopefully within sight, that would give a nice target to provide both the combination of stability and long term support. This comes up every once in a while. Frankly, I don't believe in the value of enterprise Linux distributions; I've been stuck with them in a couple of cases in the past, and they were always a support PITA even for non-development usage: nobody in the community cares to help you with debugging and back-porting recent versions of software becomes increasingly painful over time. Granted, frequently upgrading the OS also comes with its own aches too, but these are amply compensated by useful new features and better support from upstream. We've been very lucky that Dan Williams was kind enough to spend some of his time for helping us with critical bugs in NetworkManager 0.7. We've not been equally lucky with udev and GStreamer, both of which have unsolved issues in F11 for which we lack expertise. Over the last 5 years, I've become a strong advocate of the decentralized, community-driven development model. I do believe in it because I've observed it at work for 15 years. Traditionally minded managers are still looking at this enormous market value accumulated by the open model as some sort of economic anomaly; some sort of prestige trick which contradicts the rules of classic schoolbooks. Yet, an entire industry of new businesses has grown out of free software and is flourishing with it. Those who guessed its rules can play the game and win. As Martin and I discussed not long ago, our development model doesn't have to directly affect end-users. Already released free software doesn't have an expiration date. Conservative users can keep using Sugar 0.82 forever, if they really like it better than newer releases. Bugfixes and new features could be back-ported from newer releases, of course with increasing costs as time passes. We OLPC Sugar developers cannot effectively support the entire codebase of an entire OS without strong backing from the larger Fedora community and the even larger global Linux community. In the past, Sugar and OLPC development was much hurt by its disconnection from the rest of the free software ecosystem on which it was built. We need to get much closer to our upstream projects, both in time (by using current software) and in space (by not diverging our codebase). It's not just a technological issue, it's a long-term sustainability issue. Before anyone yells Yarr! Ye don't care about the children!, I'd like to point out that I've been spending several months looking at problems in the field, trying to fix some of them and, more importantly, trying to build local capacity for fixing them autonomously. In my mind, this is *the only* reasonable strategy to scale Sugar support up to the size of an entire planet. Those who think it would be impossible for people in developing nations to learn the technical skills needed for fixing their software would be shocked to see what Nepal and Paraguay have been able to achieve in just two years, with very little funding. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On 12 April 2010 15:10, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I don't have the XO near me to test but 'yum remove perl' will give you the answer. On XO-1.5 running something very close to 10.2.0 build 119, it wants to remove many components including anacron, yum, rpm, ds-backup-client, olpc-update, ... Is this what you expect? That's because of the exim. Do a 'yum install ssmtp' then a 'yum remove exim' and most of that problem goes away. the auto depsolving for '/usr/bin/sendmail' get exim by default because its the shortest name and comes first. exim depends on perl. ssmtp is a very small 50k dep that gives cronie what it wants. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
AIR (Adobe Integrated Runtime) is a desktop application that runs the FlashPlayer virtual machine outside of a browser. You know that Flash is usually thought of as a plug-in to run Flash content inside of a web page being displayed on a browser. To maintain web security, the Flash plug-in enforces restrictions on the Flash programs. For example, a Flash program running within a browser is not allowed to access files on the user's computer, only files that come from the same domain as the Flash program came from off of the web. With AIR, the Flash Player runs as a stand-alone application outside of and independent of any browser. This allows rich Flash interfaces to run just like any application installed on the user's computer. The AIR application is given more freedom -- for example, it can access local files. When a program is being compiled by the IDE, one of the settings the developer chooses is whether to compile it for AIR or for the FlashPlayer plugin.But for the most part, the program will run the same on either platform.This lets developers use the rich Internet application tools to create desktop applications. AIR handles things like the installation, checking for updates, installing updates, automatically without the programmer having to build those services. Go to http://www.adobe.com/products/air/ for examples of AIR applications you can download and run. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: There's been all this discussion of AIR. I am unfamiliar with AIR. My question : Why would I (as an user) __need__ AIR ? I do not mind using a browser, nor do I mind installing a special-purpose plugin into my browser in order to access particular material. But what does AIR provide that for instance the combination of latest Firefox plus latest Adobe Flash plugin would not provide ? Thanks, mikus p.s. People keep showing various Linux platforms (e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, etc) running on the XO. As far as I am concerned, if these people *want* to run Ubuntu, Debian, etc., then buying a modern netbook for that purpose will give them better performance than using the XO. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: tool elitism
I know I shouldn't feed the troll but ... On 12.04.2010, at 22:59, Carlos Nazareno wrote: What I'm saying is that there's an army of us out there who can be willing to volunteer and dev for the XO. However, a lot of us don't have the luxury to learn Python/Sugarization or maybe just work best with the tools we're comfortable with. Most of us are Windows users too. Can't we volunteer to develop content for the OLPC with our tools if they can run decently and play well? Of course you can. *Nobody* is preventing you from using any tool you like for this. I can't believe I'm saying this (shudder), but aside from Flash, why not also look into Moonlight and maybe ask Microsoft for help getting it running well so that C#,VB .NET coders can also contribute content for the XO? Go ahead. Ask them. Nobody here is keeping you. Look. I'm really serious here. What if there are thousands of us out there who want to develop content for OLPC, but just can't because it's Python/Sugar? You seriously have no idea. Sugar apps can be written in *any* language, if it can show an X11 window. For full integration it also needs D-Bus bindings. That's it. I know, because I did it. How about you? I hope I haven't offended anyone. I really hope you guys see what I'm trying to say because OLPC needs all the help it can get (and you don't need to compromise your principles). I'm sorry to be blunt, but OLPC has already jaded and alienated a lot of supporters (just read Slashdot, the largest nerd army in the world). By creating additional avenues for developers to contribute, I hope we can revive and increase interest for volunteers. You're offending us insofar as you are wasting our time by not doing your homework. Get your facts straight before complaining. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
Believe me I'll be one of the first poeple adding the sugar packages to EL-6 branches and testing them but its not necessarily the golden path that some people think. In the short term of the first 12 months it will be fine, 18 months to 2.5 years it won't seem as good. I am not seeing where the 18 months to 2.5 years breakdown happens. You have a base OS that is being supported for security updates by the largest Linux vendor for the next 6 years. For the small subset of packages that you need a more recent version of, i.e. the kernel and telepathy, you would just release in an OLPC yum repository. This is already being done for the kernel and other OLPC specific packages, so really there is little overhead to this path. The 18 months to 2.5 years was a rough guesstimate of the time from where RHEL 6 is released to when the libraries it runs are out of date and not what the latest sugar release wants at the time. Then RHEL-7 is released and we repeat the process all over again. We are getting to a point where the core components of linux on the desktop are matured such that a core refresh really isn't needed every 6 months. NetworkManager, PackageKit, PolicyKit provide a lot of what the desktop needs from an administration point (Yes I didn't mention Pulseaudio, maybe soon :-)). For the first time in a long time I really don't see any major changes in the near future that will really be a roadblock to a stable distribution rolled out in the next year. Things change, 2, 3, or 6 years is a long time in IT, a life time in open source. gstreamer 1 will come along in a year or so and there'll be something we want for some smart new hardware. Sugar will be ported to python3. The new ARM based XO 1.75 or XO-3 or what ever the XO-x version is that's not supported in CentOS. I personally don't see the point discussing it because from where I sit I believe it will be supported well in both and continue to be so. That way people have the choice. It might well get to a stage where the newer versions of sugar won't run in RHEL/CentOS due to whatever deps at which point we get to a situation where that release becomes like 0.84 is currently and is a long term support release. I don't see why its hard to support both because its not. The package maintenance is simple and is done easily by a couple of people. There will be Fedora and it will continue to be supported in Fedora for the developers and the like that want the bleeding edge and then there will be the EL branch for those that don't like so much blood. Its called choice. There's no reason to limit it. There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet, yes its in beta but its not out. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: tool elitism
snipped Uh... I'm also very fond of Processing. It runs okay for me on the XO-1, just a bit slow and the obvious problem with Sugar since processing is generally multi-window. Okay, kidding aside, what's the point of developing hardware and software for OLPC anyway? Aren't these just delivery mechanisms for educational content? What do kids and teachers care what computer language they're written in anyway as long as they work well on their machines and play nice? Look. I'm really serious here. What if there are thousands of us out there who want to develop content for OLPC, but just can't because it's Python/Sugar? And what's so evil with free as in beer if there's no ulterior motive to raise a generation of locked-in consumers behind it? (sure MS could benefit. Sure Adobe could benefit. Can you blame them if they make great tools that allow content creators to express themselves better?) There's an old saying that goes beggars can't be choosers. Why refuse our help? We're here. We want to help. We know you need help. I lost track of us vs them...and who is the beggar in all this? Maybe you should keep your e-mails short. Sameer snipped ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119
Hi, There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet This is my feeling too -- I agree that RHEL and CentOS 6 will be a more attractive base than any of their previous releases have been, and we'll want to consider them then. Not much more to say until we know more about the release, though. By the way, there's been some Sugar Labs discussion about finding a long-term support platform for Sugar, with an eye towards RHEL/CentOS 6 as a candidate for that: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter/Goals * Define Sugar 1.0 so that we can begin partnering with long-term stable distros, such as RHEL If that happens, and SL does choose a base for Sugar 1.0 to be supported long-term, that'll make a decision for us to forego constant updates easier. (Since we'll only need the constant updates if Sugar's depending on them.) - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 13:29 -0700, Jon Nettleton wrote: Has there been any discussion on whether CentOS was an option as a base for the distro? With RHEL/CentOS 6 hopefully within sight, that would give a nice target to provide both the combination of stability and long term support. This comes up every once in a while. Frankly, I don't believe in the value of enterprise Linux distributions; I've been stuck with them in a couple of cases in the past, and they were always a support PITA even for non-development usage: nobody in the community cares to help you with debugging and back-porting recent versions of software becomes increasingly painful over time. Granted, frequently upgrading the OS also comes with its own aches too, but these are amply compensated by useful new features and better support from upstream. We've been very lucky that Dan Williams was kind enough to spend some of his time for helping us with critical bugs in NetworkManager 0.7. We've not been equally lucky with udev and GStreamer, both of which have unsolved issues in F11 for which we lack expertise. Over the last 5 years, I've become a strong advocate of the decentralized, community-driven development model. I do believe in it because I've observed it at work for 15 years. Traditionally minded managers are still looking at this enormous market value accumulated by the open model as some sort of economic anomaly; some sort of prestige trick which contradicts the rules of classic schoolbooks. Yet, an entire industry of new businesses has grown out of free software and is flourishing with it. Those who guessed its rules can play the game and win. As Martin and I discussed not long ago, our development model doesn't have to directly affect end-users. Already released free software doesn't have an expiration date. Conservative users can keep using Sugar 0.82 forever, if they really like it better than newer releases. Bugfixes and new features could be back-ported from newer releases, of course with increasing costs as time passes. We OLPC Sugar developers cannot effectively support the entire codebase of an entire OS without strong backing from the larger Fedora community and the even larger global Linux community. In the past, Sugar and OLPC development was much hurt by its disconnection from the rest of the free software ecosystem on which it was built. We need to get much closer to our upstream projects, both in time (by using current software) and in space (by not diverging our codebase). It's not just a technological issue, it's a long-term sustainability issue. Before anyone yells Yarr! Ye don't care about the children!, I'd like to point out that I've been spending several months looking at problems in the field, trying to fix some of them and, more importantly, trying to build local capacity for fixing them autonomously. In my mind, this is *the only* reasonable strategy to scale Sugar support up to the size of an entire planet. Those who think it would be impossible for people in developing nations to learn the technical skills needed for fixing their software would be shocked to see what Nepal and Paraguay have been able to achieve in just two years, with very little funding. Bernie, I'm not sure the point of this point at this point in time. To copy and paste part of the response I did to the other thread on fedora-olpc for others benefit. I personally don't see the point discussing it because from where I sit I believe it will be supported well in both and continue to be so. That way people have the choice. It might well get to a stage where the newer versions of sugar won't run in RHEL/CentOS due to whatever deps at which point we get to a situation where that release becomes like 0.84 is currently and is a long term support release. I don't see why its hard to support both because its not. The package maintenance is simple and is done easily by a couple of people. There will be Fedora and it will continue to be supported in Fedora for the developers and the like that want the bleeding edge and then there will be the EL branch for those that don't like so much blood. Its called choice. There's no reason to limit it. There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet, yes its in beta but its not out. In short RHEL-6 isn't out yet, the associated CentOS6 release is quite a while away as a result. Also ARM isn't a supported platform there. Sugar is about options and I think having both options will be of benefit to different users. I believe the leading edge Fedora will continue to be a platform for development and then others in the know or deployments themselves can make the decision as to what's best for them. Peter Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 06:12:46PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote: In the past, Sugar and OLPC development was much hurt by its disconnection from the rest of the free software ecosystem on which it was built. We need to get much closer to our upstream projects, both in time (by using current software) and in space (by not diverging our codebase). It's not just a technological issue, it's a long-term sustainability issue. +1 I've also observed a correlation between cost of fixing problems and the release distance between the version we have and the upstream versions available. This distance, or lag, is important in the enterprise context, where I've worked for years in support ... but the lag causes higher costs that enterprise users can bear. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Fwd: Flash + AIR on OLPC
Sorry, I keep forgetting to put the list manager in my addresses. Here's my latest message: -- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley Sokolow overb...@earthlink.net Date: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:05 PM Subject: Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC To: mi...@bga.com I forgot to answer your statement below about Linux on the XO: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: ... p.s. People keep showing various Linux platforms (e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, etc) running on the XO. As far as I am concerned, if these people *want* to run Ubuntu, Debian, etc., then buying a modern netbook for that purpose will give them better performance than using the XO. When I started helping my wife develop an interactive math tutoring capability for the XO we bought from the 2008 G1G1 campaign, I looked at and tried the Sugar activities.None of them were capable of her necessary features: 2-way interactive whiteboard and 2-way interactive video and audio communications.Sure, some activities were in development trying to achieve these capabilities, but they weren't real yet. We tried a web services approach -- looked at various things like Go to Meeting.When we found www.Vyew.com, we saw what we needed. It worked on our PCs. Turning to the XO, the Browse activity with Gnash just couldn't run Vyew. When I installed the version of FlashPlayer that the laptop.org wiki recommended, it didn't work the XOs camera and microphone and didn't even operate the Flash settings dialog properly.Doing more searching, I found a version of Ubuntu that had been adapted to the XO by a user who called himself Teapot on the forum. It's a stripped down, lightweight version that uses Xfce as the window manager (hence it's called a Xubuntu distribution) and incorporates the same kernel that olpc used in the version of Fedora that came on our XO beneath Sugar, so it knows about the XO's unique hardware.After some work, I got it running from an SD card so I didn't have to trash the native operating system.I didn't do this because I wanted to run Linux -- I have other Linux machines -- but rather because it would let me get the job done, the system built with the features necessary for the tutoring project. If the XO comes up to that capability with Browse and Gnash, I'd run the native system.But it's not there, yet. We also tried to use Skype on the native Sugar/Fedora OS, but at that time, you had to do so many hokey work-arounds to fool the software into running Skype, it just wasn't feasible for a deployment with low entry threshold. The 6 to 12 year-old kids that are the prime target of the olpc mission don't care what platform is behind the screen. Just as in the Wizard of Oz, Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain. As the laptop.org mission statement says, It’s not a laptop project. It’s an education project. To me that says that the mission is not to empower kids to write programs or tinker inside the system, but rather to use the XO as an educational tool to learn about the world and life and such, to collaborate with each other across the room and around the globe, to explore the depth of knowledge on the Internet, etc. Stan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
The AIR application is given more freedom -- for example, it can access local files. Back when Netscape first came out, I was bitten when a selfish plugin changed my system's defaults without me realizing it. Ever since, I do NOT want a remotely acquired program to be able to access the local files in my system. [The nobody user was invented to limit access.] I'm willing to mess with my local files myself. But if a program from who-knows-where might mess with my local files -- I'd rather deny myself whatever experience that program is supposed to bring -- rather than chance having that program change how I have set up my system to run. Go to http://www.adobe.com/products/air/ for examples of AIR applications you can download and run. I did. Nothing there looks like something I can't live without. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
So, I guess you don't install any software that you download and run, like Firefox or OpenOffice.org or Google Earth? An AIR program doesn't just sneak itself onto your system -- the user decides to buy it, or trust the source of it, downloads it, and runs the installer. The point about AIR is that it lets the developer use the same tools to develop rich Internet applications and desktop applications with attractive rich user interfaces. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: The AIR application is given more freedom -- for example, it can access local files. Back when Netscape first came out, I was bitten when a selfish plugin changed my system's defaults without me realizing it. Ever since, I do NOT want a remotely acquired program to be able to access the local files in my system. [The nobody user was invented to limit access.] I'm willing to mess with my local files myself. But if a program from who-knows-where might mess with my local files -- I'd rather deny myself whatever experience that program is supposed to bring -- rather than chance having that program change how I have set up my system to run. Go to http://www.adobe.com/products/air/ for examples of AIR applications you can download and run. I did. Nothing there looks like something I can't live without. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: using XO for Internet Math Tutoring
Martin, Sonya wanted me to reply on her behalf. I have written a brief explanation of our attempts to just install Flash on the XO with the ex-factory, that is, the factory installed, operating system. I just sent it to the developers' list.What someone like Sonya needs is an OS on the XO that has Adobe FlashPlayer installed ex-factory, or easily added by downloading it, but the story of Flash on the XO is not so simple. Since OPLC's developers seem to want nothing to do with the proprietary, but free to use, FlashPlayer, and since Gnash isn't even running a close second place to FlashPlayer, someone who wants to use Flash-based web applications is stuck unless he/she knows enough about computers to go around Sugar and get FlashPlayer and a browser that plays nicely with it. She was hoping to create a tutoring capability that works within Sugar, but building it from scratch using Python and Sugar just isn't feasible nor cost-effective when web apps already exist to do what she needs, just not within Sugar. I'm hoping that when the new version of Fedora for XO-1.5 is released, a backport to XO-1 will also be released, and that it will support FlashPlayer, the real one from Adobe, without requiring the user to be an IT expert. Stan On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote: Hi - just install Flash. You don't need anything from me or OLPC. kind regards, martin On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Sonya Sokolow sonyasoko...@gmail.com wrote: 4/12/10 12:40pm CA time Hi Martin, I am Sonya Sokolow, PhD, owner of Internet Math Tutoring (IMT): http://www.internetmathtutoring.com . I also maintain the blog about using XO's in Africa and India for IMT: http://www.internetmathtutoring.com/olpc . In my experience, having a web cam and an interactive white board as tools for internet math tutoring make the teaching very much more effective than having only type chat or delayed email responses. I use http://www.Vyew.com as an interactive whiteboard. It is flash-based. I use an SD card on the XO which my husband Stanley Sokolow made for me. I hope that soon in the future I won't have to use the SD card anymore. That is, I am hoping that the XO's will become compatible with Flash. -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Updating my prior comments about FlashPlayer on the XO-1
After writing my explanation of why I turned to a Xubuntu system last year to get FlashPlayer going on my XO for my wife's Internet Math Tutoring project, I thought I ought to see what improvements have been made since that decision.I see on the Wiki that there are Sugarized activities now for Opera Firefox FlashPlayer.I'll give them a try. Maybe I can quit using the SD-card-installed Xubuntu system and get back to Sugar as the tutoring platform. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
re: iPhone comparison
Yes, it's a hyperbole. I'm sorry for insulting everyone with the comparison to Evil Steve but can put your emotions aside, look at this objectively, and see my frustration? I want to help, but I can't. This is the skillset that I have, and thousands of others have the same problem. I'm not a computer scientist, I'm just a self-taught cowboy coder. I'm very busy with work and am struggling as it is to keep up with the insanely rapid developments in my field. I have too much on my plate to add learning python, sugarization or the other currently available avenues of building apps for the XO. I shouldn't have to do my homework -- reading the wiki should be enough to tell me where I can help given my skillset and the fact that I'm not a Linux person. Given everything I've said here, why is Flash content (that is developed to be optimized, not your typical unoptimized fare) not suitable for the XO? I'm not a Silverlight dev, but if it has free dev tools available, why not Silverlight too? Oh, another advantage Flash AIR gives for the XO compared to DHTML is that you can have self-contained highly complex apps within single SWF/AIR file. With DHTML, a lot of projects are done with multiple HTML files being called, and that just doesn't play nice with the Sugar's filesystem, nor does it lend well to sharing between students. -- Here's the bottomline. I know many of you hate Flash. I did too, back in the 90s and hated 2advanced with a passion because of its bloat and most flash content was so bloated they were unviewable on our dial-up network connections here. You have to realize that the Flash platform is now a completely different animal than it used to be. It's very powerful, convenient, and allows us interaction designers to do things that would've been impractical/difficult or at least very tedious in any other platform. I've outlined my points and the potential for the increased availability of quality content for the users.I want to help, personally for me, this is how. I'm a Flash game developer, that's what I'm good at. For example, I want to modify, optimize and contribute this boggle-like game I made to the kids: http://www.mochimedia.com/contest/may09/games/word-blix_v1 Yes or No? -Naz ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: iPhone comparison
Yes, it seems that you have a skill you can't yet use, because someone else is needed first to prepare something you can build on. If there's any way we're stopping that someone else from working, let us know. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: tool elitism
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.com wrote: And shiny distracts. Then write an app that's not shiny. Can you please get over your gut revulsion? I have the same reaction to Macs. Ok gentlemen. Let's put things this way -- we are cluttering the development list of olpc just as we are nearing a release, with things that are not about helping development at all. They are about our favourite tools. This is 100% offtopic at a very bad time. Carlos, Flash lovers, feel free to make your own images with Flash or install Flash on your machine.. When a _deployment team_ bundles Flash in an image in their OS image, *there is no problem*. They have to fill an online form at adobe.com, and add the rpm to the build. That's all the drama. The only complication you might face is that if you build an OS image with Flash, the terms of licensing with Adobe allow you to distribute but forbid further re-distribution. In other words: no mirrors, no derivatives of your image. If you have a problem with that, direct your email rage at adobe.com . OLPC wants to encourage mirrors and people (deployment teams!) making derivatives of our images, so those terms are no go. So -- there is *no* drama. Stop this show. Over now. There's a lot of real work to do. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Adobe Flash vs. Gnash - very important bug
There's been so many changes and additions ever since Flash 9 and AS3 was introduced. Among them is byte-level manipulation which allows us to do really funky creative stuff, especially if combo-ed with AIR which allows you to read write to the local filesystem. More importantly is the 2-100x increase in performance from AVM1-AVM2 (depending on how you built your app) which is crucial given the XO's limited CPU memory. Gnash mostly supports AS2 and the AVM1 and is really just compatible up to Flash 8 SWFs and there's a very very big obscure bug that's not very documented in the AVM1 (AS2 code is ultimately converted to AS1 bytecode -- that's why AS1 AS2 SWFs are compatible and can communicate. AS2 AS3 SWFs are not.): There's a maximum filesize allowed per class because of the way the AVM1 compiler works. I forgot the exact number, but once you go beyond 2000 lines of code in a .AS class file, things will just break down and the app starts to malfunction. We had one game project where the main Class file was approaching 3000 lines of code. We were wondering why after adding just 10 lines of code which had completely correct syntax, the app would suddenly break and just stop working at a certain point. It was because of that very obscure bug (I don't have the link right now but it's in one of the old obscure Flash MX docs about limits). If you're wondering how the heck one reaches 2k+ lines of code for a class (that class finally weighed in at 67kb plaintext in the final build), 2k is not very hard to hit if you're developing a complex game. -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 23:54 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Bernie, I'm not sure the point of this point at this point in time. To copy and paste part of the response I did to the other thread on fedora-olpc for others benefit. I personally don't see the point discussing it because from where I sit I believe it will be supported well in both and continue to be so. That way people have the choice. It might well get to a stage where the newer versions of sugar won't run in RHEL/CentOS due to whatever deps at which point we get to a situation where that release becomes like 0.84 is currently and is a long term support release. I don't see why its hard to support both because its not. The package maintenance is simple and is done easily by a couple of people. There will be Fedora and it will continue to be supported in Fedora for the developers and the like that want the bleeding edge and then there will be the EL branch for those that don't like so much blood. Its called choice. There's no reason to limit it. There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet, yes its in beta but its not out. I agree on this, but it misses the point :-) I'm sure maintaining the Sugar 0.84 packages will be easy in RHEL6 as it is in F11. I've even back-ported Sugar 0.88 to Fedora 11 with minimal tweaks. Most end-user support issues lay within base OS components rather than the relatively small codebase of Sugar. Here are some real-world examples from this development cycle: * GSM connectivity requires up-to-date versions of udev and modem-manager to support USB dongles commonly available in stores * Playing multimedia content downloaded from the Internet requires gstreamer with up-to-date codecs * activities such as Record tend to uncover obscure bugs in GStreamer * Browse depends on xulrunner for security and compatiblity with web standards. Surfing the web today with a version of Firefox from 3 years ago would be unthinkable * ...not to mention NetworkManager... I would guesstimate that 80% of my time went into fixing platform bugs and just 20% on Sugar itself. In part, this is because I could offload the actual bugfixing to helpful people such as alsroot, silbe, sayamindu, mtd and others. In short RHEL-6 isn't out yet, the associated CentOS6 release is quite a while away as a result. Also ARM isn't a supported platform there. Sugar is about options and I think having both options will be of benefit to different users. I believe the leading edge Fedora will continue to be a platform for development and then others in the know or deployments themselves can make the decision as to what's best for them. In practice, choosing the distro independently of Sugar won't be feasible on the XO until: 1) we merge (or kill) all the OLPC customizations. dsd and sdz have done a lot of work in this direction, but there are still a number of rogue packages in F11-XO1. 2) we switch to a real package system for activities with full support for dependency checking and a build cluster for multiple targets. After this is done, it remains to be seen if someone who is using RHEL-6 on the XO would be able to file a bug in Red Hat's Bugzilla and actually get it fixed for free. I have a feeling one would need to purchase an enterprise support contract of some kind in order to attract the necessary developer attention. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
open source vs. constructionist learning
Questions: A) Syntax vs. Algorithms Scenario 1: complex XO game is built in C, binary, complete C sourcecode + all source files + minimal documentation are included. Kid only understands Python. Sourcecode is complete gibberish. Kid enjoys game anyway learns from content. Scenario 2: complex XO game is built in C, binary, no sourcefiles or C sourcecode included, but algorithms/principles used to create the game + mechanics in English tutorial + pseudocode are included so users can create their own version of the game using any language. Kid only understands Python. Kid enjoys game anyway learns from content. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? B) Engaging vs. Spoonfeeding Scenario 1: Closed binary of new free fantastic game is provided, contains chockful of puzzles easter eggs for kid to explore and discover. There are no spoilers available on the net. Kid explores and collaborates with friends classmates to solve the game, gain inspiration from the game implement their own inspired version in Python. Scenario 2: Sourcecode is included, kids peek into the sourcecode to get all the answers to the puzzles without having to explore, collaborate or flex their mental muscles or creativity. Basically no effort. Game over, game is done. They have a good laugh and move on to the next game. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? Alternately, replace game with multiple choice math puzzles. Available multiple choice answers had no explanation, just the plain answers (e.g. 5, 12, 3.5, etc) C) Artistic Vision Scenario 1: I am an artist. This is my vision of a game, this is how I implemented it. This is my artistic statement, and I hope it inspires the audience to create their own artistic statement (hopefully games themselves too) inspired by it. I do not want users to tinker with and modify the sourcecode game itself I made, I want them to flex their mental muscles and creativity and create their own original games using any tool they want. Theoretical Example: http://www.amanita-design.net/samorost-1/ Scenario 2: Kid changes some of the text like the names of the characters, reskins some of the art assets, but game is unchanged. Laughs and enjoyment are had by friends, but nothing groundbreaking or original is achieved. Real-world Example: http://www.thepencilfarm.com/blog/2008/02/snow_day_at_the_beijing_olympi.html The *Official* Beijing Olympics committee hired programmmers who reverse engineered plagiarized Ferry Halim's game snow Day (http://www.orisinal.com - Please check it out, the Ferry is a truly gifted pioneering artist/game developer), not even bothering to replace some very obvious art assets. Which of the 2 scenarios is constructionist? (please note that I am into the mod community. I love to death the games mods that starting hackers budding game developers made in doom, quake, half-life unreal. Counterstrike Team Fortress would not exist without the mod community or the support ID software or Valve gave them.) I know you guys are sick of my voice, so I'm going to refrain from posting for a while. Please give the above serious thought, and I would really really appreciate it if I could hear your thoughts. Please have a great week, continue to rock on, you guys are my heroes. All the best, -n -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Flash + AIR on OLPC
So, I guess you don't install any software that you download and run, like Firefox or OpenOffice.org or Google Earth? I've installed and am running applications such as Firefox 3.6.3 (plus Flash 10.1), Google Chrome 5.0.342.9, Adobe Reader 9.3.1, mplayer, FBReader, etc. -- because I trust the organizations that made these applications available. Haven't installed OpenOffice - *why* would I want to run it on the XO ? Tried to install Google Earth once (to see if I could) - the installation process ran out of some kind of resource, and I was not interested enough to fix whatver the difficulty was. The point about AIR is that it lets the developer use the same tools to develop rich Internet applications and desktop applications with attractive rich user interfaces. O.K. My point is that I am not the target for that developer - I have little interest in acquiring his application, no matter how rich it is. [I look for function, not for attractive interfaces.] And if I get an opportunity to mentor a newbie, I will try to convey what kind of things I think he should pay the most attention to. mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
IMHO I not only agree 120%, but also OLE Bolivia has budgeted support for upstreaming development. The idea being, if we are going to benefit, as an institution/country/project from work done professionally, if we are going to depend on it and expect it keeps up with improvements, then we have a duty to feed it, upstream, regularly. While an individual needs not be made responsible for that, I believe that any deployment above, say, 30-50 machines should consider helping fund development, at the local level especially, and have that development be made available to others. Deployments above the 1.000 units definitely can be counted as fair play when they have people on staff who are regularly connected with others worldwide in this effort. One of the uglier sides of piracy is that there is little sense of the duty to give back that has been built over the years. Hopefully we will get our project permitted to start sometime soon and we'll be able to contribute, as we have already benefited a lot from y'alls work. As Bernie says, there is a lot of skills out there, just waiting to be given a chance. Yama I've been spending several months looking at problems in the field, trying to fix some of them and, more importantly, trying to build local capacity for fixing them autonomously. In my mind, this is *the only* reasonable strategy to scale Sugar support up to the size of an entire planet. Those who think it would be impossible for people in developing nations to learn the technical skills needed for fixing their software would be shocked to see what Nepal and Paraguay have been able to achieve in just two years, with very little funding. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
errata
sorry to bother you guys again. Sorry for the mixup, the game Snow Farm plagiarized by the Beijing Olympic Committee dev team is by The Pencil Farm, not Ferry Halim. Pencil Farm is one of the other guys plagiarized too. I was in a rush, lack sleep and just quick-copy pasted from years-ago-memory-google without re-reading the article. Here's more about it: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/03/new-beijing-summer-olympics-event-software-piracy.ars Yes, it seems that you have a skill you can't yet use, because someone else is needed first to prepare something you can build on. If there's any way we're stopping that someone else from working, let us know. Hi James! It's more of needing help documenting the technical hurdles we need to overcome. So we can forward them to Adobe they can give us help. Busy with work, will set up/edit the Wikis later in the week, give a buzz hope those of you guys in the know can help document what's needed. I look for function, not for attractive interfaces. And that is where the open source community fails. You guys have to realize how important UX is (user experience), it's why the mac iphone succeeds despite their hardware being inferior/less bang for buck. I know a lot of us would rather date the less attractive girl over the dumb blonde, but are you guys saying the smart blonde is less hawt? (go Natalie Portman!) Quick question and raise of hands: who else here is a professional designer? Talk to you guys later in the week. Good luck with the release! -n -- carlos nazareno http://twitter.com/object404 http://www.object404.com -- interactive media specialist zen graffiti studios http://www.zengraffiti.com -- if you don't like the way the world is running, then change it instead of just complaining. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: using XO for Internet Math Tutoring
Hi, sorry I'm brief (to the unfortunate point of rudeness) -- I am working 30hr days in a 60K deployment. Which happens to want to use Flash. In fact I just helped the local team find adobe.com and we are adding the relevant rpm to the build. I find it puzzling that there is so much over the top drama. Situation is simple. Mainstream users get their XO from a deployment -- it's up to the deployment team to define the OS (inc Flash), and they have no prob rolling it into the image. Other users (those that get OLPC's images) are usually developers... who can hopefully rpm -i MyFaveRuntime-1.2.4.rpm with no problem. Sonya has you as resident geek I can guess, so it is up to you to do the rpm magic -- I have similar duties at home as the resident geek. There is the G1G1 crowd as a 3rd group. If you care about them, get a Flash enthusiasts gang and spin an image with Flash (get Adobe's ok, of course). There is no drama to justify these huge discussions. Let's see the end of this thread. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Web Caching for Areas with Intermittent
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Tim Moody timmo...@sympatico.ca wrote: What are the main advantages of wwwoffle over apache's built in proxy and cache modules? I concur with all of Wad's points. The problems with have with Squid are well known (search this list archive for sad stories about memory use, http/1.1 support, etc). The future of http proxies on the XS is likely to be in a combination of wwwoffle, Polipo (or a similar modern proxy designed for constrained memory/disk/cpu use) and the httpd-crcsync implementation (based on apache). I expect deployers will choose the best fit on a school-by-school basis. Ideally we'd have a proxy that is a good all-rounder for our use cases, but that day is far away. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Web Caching for Areas with Intermittent Internet - WWWOFFLE installation Guide on 0.6 XS Server
Hi Andra
Fantastic! Thanks! Couple questions:
- Can we remove the need to set proxy on every XO by either...
- using a transparent proxy, same as we do with SQUID (maybe make a
TURN_ON_WWWOFFLE script)?
- serving a proxy autoconfig file via dhcp/apache?
- Is it viable to automate the go online / go offline with a
cronjob that pings a public host ( ping -c1 google) every 5 minutes?
Or...
- If there's a daemon managing the connetion (case of pppd), use the
down and up hooks? This would only work if the daemon catches the
link is lost situation reliably.
- Made a rough copy/paste to
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Techniques_and_Configuration#WWWOFFLE_for_unreliable_internet_connections
-- please review :-)
cheers,
m
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Andra DuPont andradup...@gmail.com wrote:
Squid apparently is not well suited to serve up cached pages when no
internet access is
available. It was recommended that I use WWWOFFLE for this situation. Here
is the
process I used to get it installed and running on my 0.6 XS server:
- Make sure that squid is turned off
/etc/sysconfig/olpc-scripts/TURN_SQUID_OFF
service iptables restart
- Create a directory for downloads (optional) and download and install the
wwwoffle file
mkdir /downloads
cd /downloads
wget http://dl.atrpms.net/all/wwwoffle-2.8b-2.0.1.el5.i386.rpm
yum --nogpgcheck localinstall /downloads/wwwoffle-2.8b-2.0.1.el5.i386.rpm
- When the installation finishes you need edit the wwwoffle.conf file to
configure it for the XS
ed /etc/wwwoffle.conf
- Change the line http-port = 8080 to http-port = 3128 using
the
search / and change c commands as follows:
/http-port / (search till you get to the line http-port = 8080)
c
http-port = 3128
^c (control-c stops the changing)
- In a similar manner search for and change the following in the LocalHost
section:
localhost to YourDomain.org (In my case this is asilong.org)
- Add a line in the LocalNet section to get:
LocalNet
{
*.YourDomain.org (In my case this is *.asilong.org)
- Add a line in the AllowConnectedHosts section to get:
AllowedConnectedHosts
{
172.18.96.* (Add any other AP IP groups as needed)
- Write the changes w to save them and quit the editor q
w
q
- Start the wwwoffle daemon
wwwoffled -c /etc/wwwoffle.conf
wwwoffle -online (For when your internet connection is online)
wwwoffle -offline (For when your internet connection is offline)
- Turn your XO proxy settings on using Browse and going to the URL
about:config
- filter the word proxy and double-click to adjust the settings to:
network.proxy.http (172.18.0.1)
network.proxy.http_port (3128)
network.proxy.type (1)
Teachers can now download pages of interest and then students can access
them
quickly, even if the server has no internet connection simply by putting
wwwoffle -offline.
Give this a try if your internet service is intermittent, or you are paying
by the GB for
your data download.
Andy
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mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Server-devel] PDF resources in public folders not opening in Reader
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:22 AM, David Leeming da...@leeming-consulting.com wrote: Having established that there is a bug in the PDF plug in for Browse 102, with filenames having spaces, we can assume when that is fixed it will be fine. Do file the bug on dev.laptop.org ! You cannot assume that the developers of Browse will know about the bug without you filing it :-) I do have a question, how will the two options (Browser plug in, or download and Read) compare in performance in a situation with say, I don't know! Probably no difference. AFAIK both fetch the whole file. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS: Lanbond0 and eth0 problem
On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 10:40 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Juan G. Narvaez gnrvz...@gmail.com wrote: I made some changes on the ks.cfg file like keyboard layout, timezone, etc... Can an alteration of ks.cfg be part of the problem? Obviously, an different that ifcfg* configuration. Talking last night with Guillermo, he confirmed that a customisation in the ks.cfg had caused a conflict with our network stuff. He's now getting consistently successful XS installs. m Let me guess, there was a setting of the network parameters in the kickstart file? I got around that by changing the git command in %post to not do a checkout for eth0, just for eth1, letting the anaconda version of ifcfg-eth0 remain on the system. The only result is that the ifcfg-eth0 file doesn't reference /etc/sysconfig/xs_network_config, for it's external network info. Martin, what is the usage of having the XS in server role other than 1? Perhaps going forward we should just manage eth1, using the available tools on the os to allow users to set eth0 in a more normal way. Jerry ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS: Lanbond0 and eth0 problem
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote: Martin, what is the usage of having the XS in server role other than 1? None - get got to get rid of that crud. I should have simplified that in 0.6 but at the time I took a first port, then simplify approach and ran out of time right after the first part. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] PDF resources in public folders not opening in Reader
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:43:40AM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:22 AM, David Leeming da...@leeming-consulting.com wrote: Having established that there is a bug in the PDF plug in for Browse 102, with filenames having spaces, we can assume when that is fixed it will be fine. Do file the bug on dev.laptop.org ! You cannot assume that the developers of Browse will know about the bug without you filing it :-) It was already filed. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10098 (PDF files with spaces in link name do not open in sugar-pdf-viewer in Browse) http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/103 (Enable plugins to be bundled with Browse) -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
