Re: tdfx and DDC2
The NVIDIA Mac boards I've seen are Mac only. They won't even plug into a PC because the connector is different. It's like PCI, but has and extra power tab to drive the Apple Display Connector. None of those boards have a PC BIOS; they have OpenFirmware fcode. I think most hardware manufacturers prefer an incompatible board for the Mac. It means you can charge more for them, which you need to do because you need to cover the cost of the software developement for the lower volume PowerPC market. Mark. On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Tim Roberts wrote: > Michael wrote: > > >I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even > >with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not > >too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or > >other PowerPC boxes ) > > > > > > Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a > Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. > They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and > by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. > > I suppose you might find a board with a Mac-only SKU that does not stuff > the BIOS chip. > > -- > Tim Roberts, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@XFree86.Org > http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > >> Marc appears to have fixed various issues for int10/vbe on non-x86 > >> platforms as part of his sparc work. Perhaps some of those same > >> issues prevented this stuff from working on powerpc in the past and > >> so these #ifdef's can be removed now. int10/vbe should fail-safe > >> on hardware that does not have an x86 BIOS, and if they don't it > >> is a bug. > > > >I'll just remove them and tell you what happens? > > Sounds good. If anyone has a powerpc with a PC card as a secondary > to test with, that'd be good too. Hrm, all my PCI graphics boards here have some sort of OpenFirmware ( not necessarily Apple ) but I guess I could flash a Millennium back to PC-dom, the ROM images should still be on matrox.xom somewhere. have fun Michael pgpV2nrhVsbqp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:30:26PM -0400, Michael wrote: >Hello, > >> Marc appears to have fixed various issues for int10/vbe on non-x86 >> platforms as part of his sparc work. Perhaps some of those same >> issues prevented this stuff from working on powerpc in the past and >> so these #ifdef's can be removed now. int10/vbe should fail-safe >> on hardware that does not have an x86 BIOS, and if they don't it >> is a bug. > >I'll just remove them and tell you what happens? Sounds good. If anyone has a powerpc with a PC card as a secondary to test with, that'd be good too. David ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > Marc appears to have fixed various issues for int10/vbe on non-x86 > platforms as part of his sparc work. Perhaps some of those same > issues prevented this stuff from working on powerpc in the past and > so these #ifdef's can be removed now. int10/vbe should fail-safe > on hardware that does not have an x86 BIOS, and if they don't it > is a bug. I'll just remove them and tell you what happens? have fun Michael pgpIzRNwmIDi7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 07:06:22PM -0400, Michael wrote: >Hello, > >> Is the implication here that plugging a PC PCI graphics card into >> a powerpc machine will never work (as a secondary display), even >> if the software driving it knows how to initialise it in the absence >> of OpenFirmware? > >Of course not. All I said is that you're rather unlikely to find a >VESA BIOS on a graphics card in a non-PC-box. And in the case at hand - >tdfx - we don't need firmware help to set up the hardware anyway. The tdfx driver will attempt to use the int10 module to soft-boot a secondary card. Except on powerpc because right now that is #ifdef'd out. Many drivers will not work correctly on secondary cards without this, including the tdfx driver on some tdfx cards I've used in the past. My original question about whether these things still need to be #ifdef'd out on powerpc platforms (yet they are not on other non-x86 platforms) is independent of whether it is typically needed on those platforms. XFree86 strives to run on more than just the most common hardware configurations. Marc appears to have fixed various issues for int10/vbe on non-x86 platforms as part of his sparc work. Perhaps some of those same issues prevented this stuff from working on powerpc in the past and so these #ifdef's can be removed now. int10/vbe should fail-safe on hardware that does not have an x86 BIOS, and if they don't it is a bug. After all, one of the reasons for having an x86 emulator is so that PC video cards can be soft-booted on non-x86 platforms. It would also be nice to be able to "soft-boot" OpenFirmware cards on platforms that don't support that natively. David ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > Is the implication here that plugging a PC PCI graphics card into > a powerpc machine will never work (as a secondary display), even > if the software driving it knows how to initialise it in the absence > of OpenFirmware? Of course not. All I said is that you're rather unlikely to find a VESA BIOS on a graphics card in a non-PC-box. And in the case at hand - tdfx - we don't need firmware help to set up the hardware anyway. have fun Michael pgp9EvtmLwwX6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > Not entirely true. What you say only matters for the primary head, > and only because most manufacturers package only one image (x86, EFI, > OpenFirmware, etc) in their PCI ROMs. True, but in this case - tdfx - irrelevant. The driver uses vbe only for monitor ID as far as I can tell, so a voodoo3 as 2nd head should work even without any firmware ;) have fun Michael pgpfHQbl7sZom.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 06:01:42PM -0400, Michael wrote: >Hello, > >> >I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even >> >with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not >> >too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( >> >or other PowerPC boxes ) >> >> Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a >> Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. > >What the hell are you talking about? VESA BIOS is x86 only. Int10 is PC >only. > >> They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and >> by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. > >Wrong. >A Mac graphics board will have an OpenFirmware driver and possibly a >MacOS driver in ROM, not a VESA BIOS. Is the implication here that plugging a PC PCI graphics card into a powerpc machine will never work (as a secondary display), even if the software driving it knows how to initialise it in the absence of OpenFirmware? David ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > >I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even > >with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not > >too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( > >or other PowerPC boxes ) > > Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a > Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. What the hell are you talking about? VESA BIOS is x86 only. Int10 is PC only. > They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and > by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. Wrong. A Mac graphics board will have an OpenFirmware driver and possibly a MacOS driver in ROM, not a VESA BIOS. have fun Michael pgpZpiGrOZFuS.pgp Description: PGP signature pgpnhE8ZdTJtU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > >>> the attached patch adds DDC2/I2C support to the tdfx driver which > >>> has the distinct advantage to work anywhere since it doesn't > >>> depend on the vbe module. It will try DDC2 first and if that fails > >>> fall back to the old vbe stuff when possible. > >>> Moved mode validation and related stuff /after/ monitor detection. > >> That looks reasonable. > >> Does the vbe/int10 portion still need to be disabled for PowerPC? > > I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and > > even with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since > > you're not too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware > > in a Mac ( or other PowerPC boxes ) > > That's _no_ reason to disallow them. After all even your Mac has PCI > slots, not Mac-PCI slots, because the later don't exist. But the chances that it will ever have a VESA BIOS or anything responding to int10 in a PCish way is extremely small. I agree, it shouldn't have to be #ifdef'ed out as it is, but these modules would be useless on almost any PowerPC machine. have fun Michael pgpa2feAgQUXk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Ian Romanick wrote: Tim Roberts wrote: Michael wrote: I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or other PowerPC boxes ) Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. That is 100% untrue. Take *any* AGP or PCI card, with one* exception, made for the Mac and it will not work in a PC. Macs (and Suns and IBM pSeries) use OpenFirmware (byte-code compiled Forth) and PCs use compiled x86 for their respective firmwares. Neither one works with the other. Not entirely true. What you say only matters for the primary head, and only because most manufacturers package only one image (x86, EFI, OpenFirmware, etc) in their PCI ROMs. Marc. +--+---+ | Marc Aurele La France | work: 1-780-492-9310 | | Academic Information and| fax:1-780-492-1729 | |Communications Technologies | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | 352 General Services Building +---+ | University of Alberta | | | Edmonton, Alberta | Standard disclaimers apply| | T6G 2H1 | | | CANADA | | +--+---+ XFree86 developer and VP. ATI driver and X server internals. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Roberts wrote: > Michael wrote: > >> I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even >> with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not >> too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or >> other PowerPC boxes ) > > Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a > Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. > They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and > by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. That is 100% untrue. Take *any* AGP or PCI card, with one* exception, made for the Mac and it will not work in a PC. Macs (and Suns and IBM pSeries) use OpenFirmware (byte-code compiled Forth) and PCs use compiled x86 for their respective firmwares. Neither one works with the other. Some people have had limited success reflashing PC cards with Mac firmware, but I don't think that counts. * http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseI -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDFLTwX1gOwKyEAw8RAnIaAJ4nIQh9s+lKW9n7XWyCKx/1HBzfSACfblqv pslJWtJ5D7StoYOSGlz8tPE= =Xs6N -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Michael wrote: I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or other PowerPC boxes ) Wrong. No hardware manufacturer in their right mind would build a Mac-only PCI graphics board, with the possible exception of Apple. They're going to build a generic graphics board that works in a PC and by the way also works in a Mac. Such a board will have a video BIOS. I suppose you might find a board with a Mac-only SKU that does not stuff the BIOS chip. -- Tim Roberts, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Michael wrote: the attached patch adds DDC2/I2C support to the tdfx driver which has the distinct advantage to work anywhere since it doesn't depend on the vbe module. It will try DDC2 first and if that fails fall back to the old vbe stuff when possible. Moved mode validation and related stuff /after/ monitor detection. That looks reasonable. Does the vbe/int10 portion still need to be disabled for PowerPC? I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or other PowerPC boxes ) That's _no_ reason to disallow them. After all even your Mac has PCI slots, not Mac-PCI slots, because the later don't exist. Marc. +--+---+ | Marc Aurele La France | work: 1-780-492-9310 | | Academic Information and| fax:1-780-492-1729 | |Communications Technologies | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | 352 General Services Building +---+ | University of Alberta | | | Edmonton, Alberta | Standard disclaimers apply| | T6G 2H1 | | | CANADA | | +--+---+ XFree86 developer and VP. ATI driver and X server internals. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: tdfx and DDC2
Hello, > >the attached patch adds DDC2/I2C support to the tdfx driver which has > >the distinct advantage to work anywhere since it doesn't depend on > >the vbe module. It will try DDC2 first and if that fails fall back to > >the old vbe stuff when possible. > >Moved mode validation and related stuff /after/ monitor detection. > > That looks reasonable. > > Does the vbe/int10 portion still need to be disabled for PowerPC? I don't see why they should be enabled - they're PC-specific and even with x86 emulation they would be pretty much useless since you're not too likely to encounter a graphics board with PC firmware in a Mac ( or other PowerPC boxes ) have fun Michael pgpkYFlZetwS6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: tdfx and DDC2
On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 01:21:55PM -0400, Michael wrote: >Hello, > >the attached patch adds DDC2/I2C support to the tdfx driver which has >the distinct advantage to work anywhere since it doesn't depend on the >vbe module. It will try DDC2 first and if that fails fall back to the >old vbe stuff when possible. >Moved mode validation and related stuff /after/ monitor detection. That looks reasonable. Does the vbe/int10 portion still need to be disabled for PowerPC? David ___ Devel mailing list Devel@XFree86.Org http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
