Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
DC* writes: > Really exciting times for Freenet and lot of work to do (that's a good > thing!). Yes :-) > What's the Winterfacey's status? Can't seem to find a way to see what > needs to be done on Mantis. Winterfacey is available as theme in the testing release (just look into config web interface of the pre1). It has some remaining issues, but they are minor interface glitches and it is so far ahead of the current gray default theme in looks, that I think it’s already viable to set it as default theme. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
On Fri, 2018-06-08 at 01:22 +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Ian Clarke writes: > > > Some good suggestions. > > Thank you! These are not suggestions, though, but things I see as good > paths forward. They are where I consider my own time well spent. > > > On the UI, this would require a rewrite > > I disagree. To explain that, I’m making an exception from the "not a > request for input" I wrote in my email. ... Hi all. This is an interesting thread that made me write to devl again from ages ago. Complete rewrite adding a lot of thigs and debugging/polishing some plugins are extreme plans that have each different modes of complete failure 'round the corner. Navigating somewhere in the middle may have better chances to complete IMHO. JM2EC.Marco -- +- http://www.winstonsmith.org -¯\_(ツ)_/¯--+ | il Progetto Winston Smith: scolleghiamo il Grande Fratello | | the Winston Smith Project: unplug the Big Brother | | Marco A. Calamari mar...@marcoc.it http://www.marcoc.it | | DSS/DH: 8F3E 5BAE 906F B416 9242 1C10 8661 24A9 BFCE 822B | + PGP RSA: ED84 3839 6C4D 3FFE 389F 209E 3128 5698 --+ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
Really exciting times for Freenet and lot of work to do (that's a good thing!). What's the Winterfacey's status? Can't seem to find a way to see what needs to be done on Mantis. Best regards, On 2018-05-24 14:59, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > This is a high-level roadmap. > > We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on > "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to > find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it > is not a request for input. > > > These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically: > > > - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts > (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely > to cost us the most users. > > - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a > Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need > highest security but should be available to people who need highest > security. > > - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle > app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping > other devs on their mobiles. > > - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect > while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the > user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and > median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). > > - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want > to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + > tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if > pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. > > - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with > simple channels. > > - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started > on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get > Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, > and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script > which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the > browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). > > - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes > Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. > > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
Ian Clarke writes: > Some good suggestions. Thank you! These are not suggestions, though, but things I see as good paths forward. They are where I consider my own time well spent. > On the UI, this would require a rewrite I disagree. To explain that, I’m making an exception from the "not a request for input" I wrote in my email. Becoming the coolest hipster interface would require a rewrite. Becoming a joy to work with would require a rewrite. Becoming a good tool on par with or better than 90% of the websites out there would not. And there is not that much work needed for that. It’s just boring work. > If we wanted to take a fresh stab at the web UI, it would be worth at least > considering Kweb. The code looks nice — and somewhat similar to what I see from the sxml-folks in the Scheme community, i.e. http://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/#&prog-line927 If someone wants to take it up and actually finish it, why not? It could start as a plugin and gradually replace parts of fproxy, just as we tried to do it with the Winterface plugin. Though for the past 10 years our problem in Freenet hasn’t been the lack of great new approaches, but rather the lack of people actually putting in the work to get to completion. A rewrite would start out lacking a lot of features. If there were no person behind it who’d really push it forward with a lot of free time, it would either stall fproxy for even longer or it would have to constantly chase fproxy as a moving target. In general I consider rewrites a big risk. Will someone have the will, skill and perseverance to finish it once the fun part stops and what’s left are the boring 90% of the work? Those 90% are what I did when I took over the ShareLink plugin and turned it into ShareSite. But I cannot do it for a task the size of the full Freenet interface. I realized that when supporting the Winterface plugin (which is *not* the Winterfacey I named in the world domination plan: the theme is a theme to make the regular fproxy look similar to the Winterface plugin; when seeing how much it achieved I realized how much we can do with simple, non-breaking improvements to fproxy. We just have to *do* them). I’m not going to write a lot more on this topic. I want to get moving again with the *doing* for Freenet, now that I finally have a working internet connection again. Aside from getting the next release done, I want to finally implement the defense against the pitch black attack. Over the past years I could convince myself in modelling and reasoning that Oscar was right and that flaws I thought I saw are far less serious than I thought. For example follow-up swap requests after a defensive swap should minimize data-loss. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
Some good suggestions. On the UI, this would require a rewrite so may not be the direction we want to go, but I've been thinking about how to build good web-based UIs for apps for a long time now, in some regards Freenet was an early pioneer here, but unfortunately there has never really been a great option that met our needs. I kept running into the same problems and so created something to try to solve the problem, it's called http://kweb.io/. The idea is that it makes it super-easy to create rich interactive web interfaces, and yet you never need to get your fingers dirty with javascript, it's all handled transparently. Kweb is written in Kotlin rather than Java, but Kotlin is fully interoperable and anyone familiar with Java should be able to get comfortable with Kotlin very easily. On the negative side, Kweb is still at the working prototype stage, but I've been tinkering with it for over 18 months at this point. If we wanted to take a fresh stab at the web UI, it would be worth at least considering Kweb. On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > This is a high-level roadmap. > > We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on > "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to > find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it > is not a request for input. > > > These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically: > > > - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts > (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely > to cost us the most users. > > - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a > Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need > highest security but should be available to people who need highest > security. > > - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle > app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping > other devs on their mobiles. > > - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect > while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the > user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and > median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). > > - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want > to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + > tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if > pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. > > - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with > simple channels. > > - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started > on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get > Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, > and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script > which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the > browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). > > - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes > Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. > > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re : Freenet World Domination Plan
Thanks Arne, I love this user oriented roadmap ! Nicolas Envoyé depuis ProtonMail mobile Message d'origine On 6 juin 2018 à 7:58 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide a écrit : > Hi, > > This is a high-level roadmap. > > We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on > "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to > find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it > is not a request for input. > > These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically: > > - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts > (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely > to cost us the most users. > > - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a > Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need > highest security but should be available to people who need highest > security. > > - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle > app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping > other devs on their mobiles. > > - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect > while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the > user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and > median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). > > - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want > to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + > tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if > pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. > > - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with > simple channels. > > - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started > on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get > Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, > and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script > which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the > browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). > > - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes > Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
PS: Things I missed: - Provide and polish and describe basic communication tools: - Private communication, i.e. a Freemail which just works via webmail. Mine is broken right now. I don’t know why (cannot receive emails, not even my own). - Casual low latency communication (i.e. turn FLIRCP into FreenetChat, with user tracing prevention like random IDs on startup and fixed insert times while not in active use). - Casual public communication with persistent IDs like Sone, FMS or FreeTalk, bundled and easier to start to use. - Secure publication, i.e. Sharesite. Activate it by default. - Secure leaking, i.e. upload + chat message when finished. - Keeping specific content alive, i.e. polish keepalive, bundle and activate it by default. > - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts > (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely > to cost us the most users. > > - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a > Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need > highest security but should be available to people who need highest > security. > > - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle > app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping > other devs on their mobiles. > > - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect > while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the > user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and > median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). > > - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want > to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + > tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if > pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. > > - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with > simple channels. > > - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started > on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get > Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, > and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script > which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the > browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). > > - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes > Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. > > > Best wishes, > Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Freenet World Domination Plan
Hi, This is a high-level roadmap. We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it is not a request for input. These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically: - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely to cost us the most users. - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need highest security but should be available to people who need highest security. - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping other devs on their mobiles. - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with simple channels. - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken signature.asc Description: PGP signature
