Re: Freenet on Embedded Systems
On 03/09/17 18:36, Matthew John Toseland wrote: > On 23/08/17 19:57, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I think such a device would be awesome! If combined with the icicles >> app, it could make using darknet very convenient. >> >> This could also serve as darknet peer to a node which runs on another >> computer. > > Agreed! For any sort of darknet to be viable, we need it to be easy to > run full-time nodes. > > Moving most of the duties of WoT to a separate device, e.g. your laptop, > is an interesting idea. To elaborate, WoT is the bit that users will most want to use full disk encryption etc. As well as being more demanding technically. Ideally we'd use some sort of deniable partly-on-network storage. There are various ideas for this. Of course we'll need help from the node. We could perhaps have it poll the USKs for us while WoT is not running, for example. So in the long run we probably want to split WoT up - part of it will run on the node, and poll the forums in such a way that it is hard to distinguish from any other user. The other part will run on the client (potentially also on the node, but not necessarily), and handle the individual user's actions as well as the UI. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Freenet on Embedded Systems
On 23/08/17 19:57, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > I think such a device would be awesome! If combined with the icicles > app, it could make using darknet very convenient. > > This could also serve as darknet peer to a node which runs on another > computer. Agreed! For any sort of darknet to be viable, we need it to be easy to run full-time nodes. Moving most of the duties of WoT to a separate device, e.g. your laptop, is an interesting idea. > > Steve Dougherty writes: > >> To run Freenet it'd need robust storage and a fair amount of RAM; when >> I ran a Freenet node on a Raspberry Pi 2 (1 GiB RAM; MicroSD card >> rootfs and USB ports) with Freenet installed to a USB hard drive, the >> USB drive kept disconnecting (maybe due to flakiness under load?), >> causing filesystem corruption and kernel panics. When I moved the >> Freenet installation to the MicroSD card, not long after the >> filesystem started to, if memory serves, refuse to accept writes. > > Since this is a problem we’ve seen in the past, and since this will be > an always-on device (many¹ USB hard drives have problems with sustained > load, and many¹ SD cards aren’t built for constaint rewriting), I’d > suggest using 512 MiB of pure ram-storage. Then we could guarantee that > freenet would not create strain on the device. Ugh. Say goodbye to data persistence. There ought to be a solution to this. Even if it means finding a manufacturing partner. Pi's aren't known for their stability in the first place. Also, it would be perfectly reasonable to implement software workarounds for these sorts of things... of course that means the network has to deal with the flakiness... > > ¹: It doesn’t matter that there are ones which work well if we cannot >guarantee that users will have one which works well. Which is why we'd need to find one and ship it. But yes, most hard drives, USB or not, aren't engineered to run constantly. However it is easy to obtain drives that *can* run constantly. They just cost a bit more. And tend not to have a USB interface. > >> So whatever this does use it'll need good storage one way or >> another. I had some flavor of https://nextthing.co/pages/chip in mind, >> but haven't tested running Freenet on such a system yet. Either way it >> couldn't handle something memory-heavy like Sone, and maybe not WoT >> either. (For reference my Freenet node with both of those is currently >> sitting at about 2 GiB resident.) Hopefully a base node would work. > > My base nodes without WoT work well with roughly 500MiB of memory and > just about 10% load (on a 2x800MHz system). Yeah, on plausible home connections Freenet could reasonably run on a Pi (at least in RAM and CPU terms), although we might have issues with JITs. > > Best wishes, > Arne > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Freenet on Embedded Systems
On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 05:22:28 AM Steve Dougherty wrote: > To run Freenet it'd need robust storage and a fair amount of RAM; when I ran > a Freenet node on a Raspberry Pi 2 (1 GiB RAM; MicroSD card rootfs and USB > ports) with Freenet installed to a USB hard drive, the USB drive kept > disconnecting (maybe due to flakiness under load?), causing filesystem > corruption and kernel panics. When I moved the Freenet installation to the > MicroSD card, not long after the filesystem started to, if memory serves, > refuse to accept writes. So whatever this does use it'll need good storage > one way or another. I had some flavor of https://nextthing.co/pages/chip in > mind, but haven't tested running Freenet on such a system yet. mrsteveman1 says that there are MicroSD cards labeled as for "industrial" purposes which should be able to handle the load. I would thus suggest to use those and go for a Raspberry Pi 3 as it is the most popular embedded computer. The more we go for standard solutions the easier everything will hopefully be. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Freenet on Embedded Systems
Hi, I think such a device would be awesome! If combined with the icicles app, it could make using darknet very convenient. This could also serve as darknet peer to a node which runs on another computer. Steve Dougherty writes: > To run Freenet it'd need robust storage and a fair amount of RAM; when > I ran a Freenet node on a Raspberry Pi 2 (1 GiB RAM; MicroSD card > rootfs and USB ports) with Freenet installed to a USB hard drive, the > USB drive kept disconnecting (maybe due to flakiness under load?), > causing filesystem corruption and kernel panics. When I moved the > Freenet installation to the MicroSD card, not long after the > filesystem started to, if memory serves, refuse to accept writes. Since this is a problem we’ve seen in the past, and since this will be an always-on device (many¹ USB hard drives have problems with sustained load, and many¹ SD cards aren’t built for constaint rewriting), I’d suggest using 512 MiB of pure ram-storage. Then we could guarantee that freenet would not create strain on the device. ¹: It doesn’t matter that there are ones which work well if we cannot guarantee that users will have one which works well. > So whatever this does use it'll need good storage one way or > another. I had some flavor of https://nextthing.co/pages/chip in mind, > but haven't tested running Freenet on such a system yet. Either way it > couldn't handle something memory-heavy like Sone, and maybe not WoT > either. (For reference my Freenet node with both of those is currently > sitting at about 2 GiB resident.) Hopefully a base node would work. My base nodes without WoT work well with roughly 500MiB of memory and just about 10% load (on a 2x800MHz system). Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Freenet on Embedded Systems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi everyone, A few years ago Allan (comradekingu) had an idea about selling small pre-configured Freenet systems. While I think we're still probably underresourced to support such an undertaking, I did have ideas about what one might look like. If you're not familiar with the Chromecast setup process: a Chromecast fresh out of packaging is to be connected to a display and a power source. It then becomes a WiFi access point, and Chromecast mobile apps connect to it and allow configuring the Chromecast and giving it the WiFi password. Then the AP turns off, the Chromecast connects to the normal WiFi, and is accessible over the network. An embedded Freenet system could do something similar: offer an AP which captive-portals Fred's first run setup. (Along with prompts for WiFi access, or an Ethernet connection. We'd want https://github.com/freenet/plugin-UPnP2 too.) To run Freenet it'd need robust storage and a fair amount of RAM; when I ran a Freenet node on a Raspberry Pi 2 (1 GiB RAM; MicroSD card rootfs and USB ports) with Freenet installed to a USB hard drive, the USB drive kept disconnecting (maybe due to flakiness under load?), causing filesystem corruption and kernel panics. When I moved the Freenet installation to the MicroSD card, not long after the filesystem started to, if memory serves, refuse to accept writes. So whatever this does use it'll need good storage one way or another. I had some flavor of https://nextthing.co/pages/chip in mind, but haven't tested running Freenet on such a system yet. Either way it couldn't handle something memory-heavy like Sone, and maybe not WoT either. (For reference my Freenet node with both of those is currently sitting at about 2 GiB resident.) Hopefully a base node would work. Thoughts? - - Steve -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy18byrtUVJwwR9o9Isk/X0qqYW4FAlmdSMEACgkQIsk/X0qq YW7vlw/+PepolRIgSLH8PYxaD7QQ9t6iNZiOuQ2oNZvYPl1d6XOsajesitWJalox OsstZe1OY6uLYoIAJApDdDZMlbGyyJSrsjirIcGkYIHlWvSUX9d+qIv/o81eo7+C EL6Xas4UtaWxVPmVrMjYw6CAuUxiZygzfrwWR11DwjU5Mcja+KXO+YwFLKt2S/UV 2P0UTncjpyzm/r9d9Foy8+YImel7xuPYemTJyBolYp9Vbj7mzLjdK475/EHSkHYD n7zVt6p2XKEBWzO1pYE2Te8L9ryFvDKWjablHLoX1PYQwYIfTApy+e5KON9/ih9v 7EL0P8d6hCCaep3wBaoSEB4uu3XzhxnzgxvI1AzcS7brQYforP52EMPezga12LJY RChMQ/Tprk5/uUfaACEWr+8iyIthnFxeDpvMSq6txBIW9+pg+0Tf5pGWvkdlG50o OxETKXAjlpEXyb8pvi/BECl+3dwQCKhwogtRzuQXjEPEIBMWJGoUaxkUkU3lctcx aSWU5fkeanauvzsQSrujx8kvo0KRzm8t1fF0W8fxx9lxe2mPXvAGHwDgAqwI4LEO 6y/OjDPFNREOMNJQZRL176GUDp8lNKVKbGat5hZwHOAP1o5gLjJ0J9tJ7BGEeGvy aqpbj8sX0vKaSUaUsNB7144dnLT+xQ5GcrUH0fmF002SUtgfnUA= =a+VR -END PGP SIGNATURE-