Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Monday 04 Mar 2013 22:33:21 Ian Clarke wrote: So I have one excellent student that wants to work on Tahrir this Summer, ideally as part of GSoC, I've already started to get him up to speed on the codebase and his progress is impressive. Here is the trickier part: I have another student that has been working on another open source project of mine called LastCalc, that is unrelated to Freenet. He has asked me whether he can work on it this summer as part of GsoC. I assumed that doing the LastCalc project with Freenet as a mentoring org would be a non-starter since they aren't related (except through me), however I consulted the GSoC mailing list about it they said that it is ok provided that Freenet is ok with it. So, does anyone have a strong objection to this? I can't think of any reason why anyone would given that I'm willing to mentor both projects. Matthew, I know that you thought mentoring two projects would be too much work, however I already have three students that I work with, two on Tahrir, one on LastCalc. I spend several hours a week with each of them, so actually no less work than would be required of me as a GSoC mentor, and it works well. If you disappear, or fail to keep up with the workload, we're ed. What's your contingency plan? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
When have I ever disappeared or failed to keep a commitment I made? I do what I commit to do, always have, always will. Ian. On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote: On Monday 04 Mar 2013 22:33:21 Ian Clarke wrote: So I have one excellent student that wants to work on Tahrir this Summer, ideally as part of GSoC, I've already started to get him up to speed on the codebase and his progress is impressive. Here is the trickier part: I have another student that has been working on another open source project of mine called LastCalc, that is unrelated to Freenet. He has asked me whether he can work on it this summer as part of GsoC. I assumed that doing the LastCalc project with Freenet as a mentoring org would be a non-starter since they aren't related (except through me), however I consulted the GSoC mailing list about it they said that it is ok provided that Freenet is ok with it. So, does anyone have a strong objection to this? I can't think of any reason why anyone would given that I'm willing to mentor both projects. Matthew, I know that you thought mentoring two projects would be too much work, however I already have three students that I work with, two on Tahrir, one on LastCalc. I spend several hours a week with each of them, so actually no less work than would be required of me as a GSoC mentor, and it works well. If you disappear, or fail to keep up with the workload, we're ed. What's your contingency plan? -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 18:15:17 Ian Clarke wrote: When have I ever disappeared or failed to keep a commitment I made? I do what I commit to do, always have, always will. Other mentors have disappeared. As an organisation we need to be able to deal with a mentor disappearing - the organisation application form may even ask what our protocol for dealing with disappearing mentors is, it has done so in the past, although two years ago it was simplified considerably iirc. If none of your students can be mentored by anyone else, and you don't have time to mentor them, then we will potentially have failed to fill in the evaluation on time for THREE students. Which will probably mean we never get onto GSoC again; it would measurably annoy the people running the programme. All that would have to have for this to happen is for you to disappear for a few days around the mid-term because of a business commitment you took on without checking the dates... Of course it's unlikely that Google will let you have 3 students anyway - last year the metric was 1 slot = 1 mentor with an allocated student IIRC. Or was that the previous year? I apologise if this seems hostile, but we HAVE had problems with disappearing mentors in the past, and you did ask for my opinion. Feel free to insist, in which case I will admin. But if you disappear I will not be able to evaluate your students, and I don't think anyone else will either. Ian. On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote: On Monday 04 Mar 2013 22:33:21 Ian Clarke wrote: So I have one excellent student that wants to work on Tahrir this Summer, ideally as part of GSoC, I've already started to get him up to speed on the codebase and his progress is impressive. Here is the trickier part: I have another student that has been working on another open source project of mine called LastCalc, that is unrelated to Freenet. He has asked me whether he can work on it this summer as part of GsoC. I assumed that doing the LastCalc project with Freenet as a mentoring org would be a non-starter since they aren't related (except through me), however I consulted the GSoC mailing list about it they said that it is ok provided that Freenet is ok with it. So, does anyone have a strong objection to this? I can't think of any reason why anyone would given that I'm willing to mentor both projects. Matthew, I know that you thought mentoring two projects would be too much work, however I already have three students that I work with, two on Tahrir, one on LastCalc. I spend several hours a week with each of them, so actually no less work than would be required of me as a GSoC mentor, and it works well. If you disappear, or fail to keep up with the workload, we're ed. What's your contingency plan? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote: On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 18:15:17 Ian Clarke wrote: When have I ever disappeared or failed to keep a commitment I made? I do what I commit to do, always have, always will. Other mentors have disappeared. I'm not other mentors. I really think you're being a bit ridiculous here. It is hard enough to find one mentor for any given student, are you now saying that we can't take on a student unless we have both a mentor and a backup mentor? I find it hard to believe that any other project has such a stringent requirement. As an organisation we need to be able to deal with a mentor disappearing - the organisation application form may even ask what our protocol for dealing with disappearing mentors is, it has done so in the past, although two years ago it was simplified considerably iirc. What is our mentoring policy for dealing with a civilization-ending asteroid? How about an alien invasion? Plague? A change in the fundamental laws of physics rendering computation impossible? Surely we can't take on any students without accounting for those possibilities? If none of your students can be mentored by anyone else, and you don't have time to mentor them, then we will potentially have failed to fill in the evaluation on time for THREE students. Which will probably mean we never get onto GSoC again; it would measurably annoy the people running the programme. For crying out loud. I am telling you that I will have time. I have always had time in the past. I have time RIGHT NOW when I am effectively mentoring 3 students outside the context of GSoC (I devote 1-4 hours per student per week). All that would have to have for this to happen is for you to disappear for a few days around the mid-term because of a business commitment you took on without checking the dates... A business commitment in Afghanistan? How likely is it that I would have a business commitment somewhere with no Internet access? Of course it's unlikely that Google will let you have 3 students anyway - last year the metric was 1 slot = 1 mentor with an allocated student IIRC. Or was that the previous year? Firstly it is 2 students, not 3. I have 3 students currently outside the context of GSoC, but only two of them are interested in GSoC. Secondly, I have described my intention on the GSoC mentors mailing list and NOBODY, not one person has raised these concerns, or told me that we were limited to 1-mentor-1-student. I apologise if this seems hostile It doesn't seem hostile, it seems ridiculous. , but we HAVE had problems with disappearing mentors in the past In 12 years you have never had a problem with ME disappearing in the past. I have a 100% success record with not disappearing, and with living up to every commitment I've ever made related to Freenet. , and you did ask for my opinion. Feel free to insist, in which case I will admin. But if you disappear I will not be able to evaluate your students, and I don't think anyone else will either. I won't disappear. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 20:21:19 Ian Clarke wrote: On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote: On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 18:15:17 Ian Clarke wrote: When have I ever disappeared or failed to keep a commitment I made? I do what I commit to do, always have, always will. Other mentors have disappeared. I'm not other mentors. I really think you're being a bit ridiculous here. It is hard enough to find one mentor for any given student, are you now saying that we can't take on a student unless we have both a mentor and a backup mentor? I find it hard to believe that any other project has such a stringent requirement. As an organisation we need to be able to deal with a mentor disappearing - the organisation application form may even ask what our protocol for dealing with disappearing mentors is, it has done so in the past, although two years ago it was simplified considerably iirc. What is our mentoring policy for dealing with a civilization-ending asteroid? How about an alien invasion? Plague? A change in the fundamental laws of physics rendering computation impossible? Surely we can't take on any students without accounting for those possibilities? If none of your students can be mentored by anyone else, and you don't have time to mentor them, then we will potentially have failed to fill in the evaluation on time for THREE students. Which will probably mean we never get onto GSoC again; it would measurably annoy the people running the programme. For crying out loud. I am telling you that I will have time. I have always had time in the past. I have time RIGHT NOW when I am effectively mentoring 3 students outside the context of GSoC (I devote 1-4 hours per student per week). All that would have to have for this to happen is for you to disappear for a few days around the mid-term because of a business commitment you took on without checking the dates... A business commitment in Afghanistan? How likely is it that I would have a business commitment somewhere with no Internet access? Of course it's unlikely that Google will let you have 3 students anyway - last year the metric was 1 slot = 1 mentor with an allocated student IIRC. Or was that the previous year? Firstly it is 2 students, not 3. I have 3 students currently outside the context of GSoC, but only two of them are interested in GSoC. Secondly, I have described my intention on the GSoC mentors mailing list and NOBODY, not one person has raised these concerns, or told me that we were limited to 1-mentor-1-student. I apologise if this seems hostile It doesn't seem hostile, it seems ridiculous. , but we HAVE had problems with disappearing mentors in the past In 12 years you have never had a problem with ME disappearing in the past. I have a 100% success record with not disappearing, and with living up to every commitment I've ever made related to Freenet. , and you did ask for my opinion. Feel free to insist, in which case I will admin. But if you disappear I will not be able to evaluate your students, and I don't think anyone else will either. I won't disappear. You are asking for special dispensation to risk significant project resources (goodwill) for non-project goals. However as the risk is small, and Tahrir is at least vaguely related to Freenet, I have no real objections (to either project), provided we have up to date contact details. Evan was out of internet contact, but if we'd had his phone number we'd probably have been able to resolve it without aggravating Google; we will have this for all mentors this year. I do think that Google reasonably expect that the admin (or a backup mentor) can take over the evaluations if the primary mentor disappears, this is why they've asked about it in the past. Death, illness, etc, have disrupted events in the past and may in the future. Ideally student projects would be public and integrated enough that there will be others in the community besides their mentor who are interested in the detail of their work; hence for example status reports should go to this mailing list, not only to their mentor. This integration into the community doesn't really exist for Tahrir and certainly not for LastCalc. In the past I have ended up effectively mentoring students who were working on core Freenet, e.g. Chetan, whether or not I was formally involved; this is often a wise investment of time. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
So I have one excellent student that wants to work on Tahrir this Summer, ideally as part of GSoC, I've already started to get him up to speed on the codebase and his progress is impressive. Here is the trickier part: I have another student that has been working on another open source project of mine called LastCalc, that is unrelated to Freenet. He has asked me whether he can work on it this summer as part of GsoC. I assumed that doing the LastCalc project with Freenet as a mentoring org would be a non-starter since they aren't related (except through me), however I consulted the GSoC mailing list about it they said that it is ok provided that Freenet is ok with it. So, does anyone have a strong objection to this? I can't think of any reason why anyone would given that I'm willing to mentor both projects. Matthew, I know that you thought mentoring two projects would be too much work, however I already have three students that I work with, two on Tahrir, one on LastCalc. I spend several hours a week with each of them, so actually no less work than would be required of me as a GSoC mentor, and it works well. Thoughts? Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2013, 21:38:14 schrieb Steve Dougherty: I hope to work with ArneBab on the Infocalypse project as proposed last year. [0] [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Google_Summer_of_Code/2012#Integrating_DVCS_via_Infocalypse_.28Mercurial.29_with_the_Web_of_Trust Just to have it recorded here, too: I’ll be happy to mentor you on Infocalypse! Since SeekingFor recently wrote a helper script for git to be able to interact with Infocalypse repositories, work on Infocalypse should be beneficial to all freenet contributors, regardless of the vcs they prefer. → http://127.0.0.1:/Sone/viewPost.html?post3b2bd88-af38-48f1-82c7-f42c763febc2 Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
Hi All, If Infinity0 agree, I'm interested in Events framework and API task, this should be replace the ticker class in fred-staging if i understand correctly. If there are other tasks open, let me know, we can discuss here on separatly! regards, voxsim On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2013, 21:38:14 schrieb Steve Dougherty: I hope to work with ArneBab on the Infocalypse project as proposed last year. [0] [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Google_Summer_of_Code/2012#Integrating_DVCS_via_Infocalypse_.28Mercurial.29_with_the_Web_of_Trust Just to have it recorded here, too: I’ll be happy to mentor you on Infocalypse! Since SeekingFor recently wrote a helper script for git to be able to interact with Infocalypse repositories, work on Infocalypse should be beneficial to all freenet contributors, regardless of the vcs they prefer. → http://127.0.0.1:/Sone/viewPost.html?post=33b2bd88-af38-48f1-82c7-f42c763febc2 Best wishes, Arne ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
Hey, catch me on IRC some time and let's talk about it. I'll be around Wednesday evening UTC time, probably. I haven't looked at freenet code for ages, and my idea for events framework and API was written before I found out about Twisted's Deferred[1]. It's simple and powerful and after using it I'm convinced it's The Right Way to do things (although the Twisted Python version is missing IMO a vital functionality, branch(), available in Google Closure[2].) The core of the idea proposal remains similar, but I think it would further benefit by moving freenet's API away from using blocking/threads towards instead using non-blocking/async/Deferred. That should make complex applications that need to wait on network events much simpler to write. Another simpler task (which should only take up half of a projcet) is moving away from BigInteger into my gmp-java[3] library (which is much simpler, involves next to no custom code, and is better performance-wise). X [1] http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/core/howto/defer.html [2] http://closure-library.googlecode.com/svn-history/docs/class_goog_async_Deferred.html [3] https://github.com/infinity0/gmp-java On 02/03/13 15:15, Simon Vocella wrote: Hi All, If Infinity0 agree, I'm interested in Events framework and API task, this should be replace the ticker class in fred-staging if i understand correctly. If there are other tasks open, let me know, we can discuss here on separatly! regards, voxsim On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2013, 21:38:14 schrieb Steve Dougherty: I hope to work with ArneBab on the Infocalypse project as proposed last year. [0] [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Google_Summer_of_Code/2012#Integrating_DVCS_via_Infocalypse_.28Mercurial.29_with_the_Web_of_Trust Just to have it recorded here, too: I’ll be happy to mentor you on Infocalypse! Since SeekingFor recently wrote a helper script for git to be able to interact with Infocalypse repositories, work on Infocalypse should be beneficial to all freenet contributors, regardless of the vcs they prefer. → http://127.0.0.1:/Sone/viewPost.html?post=33b2bd88-af38-48f1-82c7-f42c763febc2 Best wishes, Arne ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl -- GPG: 4096R/5FBBDBCE https://github.com/infinity0 https://bitbucket.org/infinity0 https://launchpad.net/~infinity0 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
Would any of you be willing to volunteer to take care of the administrative side of Summer of Code? I don't think it is too onerous but someone should be in charge of ensuring that forms get filled out, etc. Matthew, could you summarize what this would involve? Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Saturday 02 Mar 2013 16:13:08 Ian Clarke wrote: Would any of you be willing to volunteer to take care of the administrative side of Summer of Code? I don't think it is too onerous but someone should be in charge of ensuring that forms get filled out, etc. Matthew, could you summarize what this would involve? Mostly bugging mentors, some form filling. It is *ESSENTIAL* that we have FULL CONTACT DETAILS for each mentor. We need them to fill in the forms. If a mentor disappears the org admin will have to fill the forms in. Doing an adequate job in such circumstances probably isn't possible, and would require such a large time commitment as to be unrealistic - even for me. But not filling them in at all means aggravating Google, which is also very bad... In the worst case this can involve a huge amount of work and a huge amount of stress. In the best case it's minimal. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote: On Saturday 02 Mar 2013 16:13:08 Ian Clarke wrote: Would any of you be willing to volunteer to take care of the administrative side of Summer of Code? I don't think it is too onerous but someone should be in charge of ensuring that forms get filled out, etc. Matthew, could you summarize what this would involve? Mostly bugging mentors, some form filling. It is *ESSENTIAL* that we have FULL CONTACT DETAILS for each mentor. We need them to fill in the forms. If a mentor disappears the org admin will have to fill the forms in. Doing an adequate job in such circumstances probably isn't possible, and would require such a large time commitment as to be unrealistic - even for me. But not filling them in at all means aggravating Google, which is also very bad... In the worst case this can involve a huge amount of work and a huge amount of stress. In the best case it's minimal. Are you willing to do this Matthew? I knew you were worried about some poorly timed exams…. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On Saturday 02 Mar 2013 18:31:17 Ian Clarke wrote: On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote: On Saturday 02 Mar 2013 16:13:08 Ian Clarke wrote: Would any of you be willing to volunteer to take care of the administrative side of Summer of Code? I don't think it is too onerous but someone should be in charge of ensuring that forms get filled out, etc. Matthew, could you summarize what this would involve? Mostly bugging mentors, some form filling. It is *ESSENTIAL* that we have FULL CONTACT DETAILS for each mentor. We need them to fill in the forms. If a mentor disappears the org admin will have to fill the forms in. Doing an adequate job in such circumstances probably isn't possible, and would require such a large time commitment as to be unrealistic - even for me. But not filling them in at all means aggravating Google, which is also very bad... In the worst case this can involve a huge amount of work and a huge amount of stress. In the best case it's minimal. Are you willing to do this Matthew? I knew you were worried about some poorly timed exams…. Hmmm, they have shifted the dates forward somewhat. That makes it feasible. It simply becomes a question of whether it's a good use of project resources. If I don't have to mentor I guess it's not a big deal. Though last year I effectively mentored chetan last year - but he's still around and contributing, and his code should get merged in the coming months, so that's a success story. For a student who is contributing to a branch on the core code, I should probably keep track of what they are doing anyway. For a more peripheral project like Infocalypse, I'm not really competent even as a backup mentor, so we'll just have to hope the mentor doesn't disappear. If we have phone numbers we probably won't have the hideous mess than Evan dumped us in two years ago. ;) The ranking period is early may, which is a good month before my exams. This is over quite quickly and I plan to leave ranking mostly to the mentors anyway. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On 14/02/13 12:42, Matthew Toseland wrote: Organisations can apply from 18-29 of March. We have at least one very enthusiastic student (voxsim) who's been working with us with a view to participating. However he will need a mentor. I don't have time to be primary mentor to anyone this year. I guess I can do the organisation admin, provided that I don't have to mentor as well. Who wants to be involved in GSoC this year? I'm up for mentoring again. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl -- GPG: 4096R/5FBBDBCE https://github.com/infinity0 https://bitbucket.org/infinity0 https://launchpad.net/~infinity0 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code 2013
On 02/14/2013 07:42 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote: Organisations can apply from 18-29 of March. We have at least one very enthusiastic student (voxsim) who's been working with us with a view to participating. However he will need a mentor. I don't have time to be primary mentor to anyone this year. I guess I can do the organisation admin, provided that I don't have to mentor as well. Who wants to be involved in GSoC this year? I hope to work with ArneBab on the Infocalypse project as proposed last year. [0] Steve Dougherty [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Google_Summer_of_Code/2012#Integrating_DVCS_via_Infocalypse_.28Mercurial.29_with_the_Web_of_Trust signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
