Re: some quetsions about features and plugins
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:08 PM, Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As already mentioned I'm not sure I have understood the filtering ... idea. Didn't it mean selecting objects based on certain criteria, rather than selecting attributes of a group of objects? It did mean selecting objects based on a certain criteria. Would the easiest way for implementing this, be to search in the data-structure loaded in memory and the same way for comparing between two files or versions: load them and compare their data-structure? Thank you, -- Marleine Daoud http://marleine.blogspot.com/ ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
a standard for diagram document format
I am really pleased that at last we have ODF for officially defining an open format for documents. But I think we are still missing the equivalent for diagrams. I realise that dia produces output in a number of formats but none of these are any kind of standard for diagrams that I am aware of. If there was such a std then dia could be one program among several that implement the std. We would then see survival of the fitest. Suerly this would be a good thing. At the moment dia is just one open source diagraming tool among several (albeit, a good one). What plans are there to try to arrive at a std? Without one I do not see the dominance of Visio ever changing. Regards, Andrew Marlow http://www.andrewpetermarlow.co.uk Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? En/na Andrew Marlow ha escrit: I am really pleased that at last we have ODF for officially defining an open format for documents. But I think we are still missing the equivalent for diagrams. I realise that dia produces output in a number of formats but none of these are any kind of standard for diagrams that I am aware of. If there was such a std then dia could be one program among several that implement the std. We would then see survival of the fitest. Suerly this would be a good thing. At the moment dia is just one open source diagraming tool among several (albeit, a good one). What plans are there to try to arrive at a std? Without one I do not see the dominance of Visio ever changing. Regards, Andrew Marlow http://www.andrewpetermarlow.co.uk Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia José Mª Martínez Gutiérrez Expectra S.A. Consell de Cent, 357-359, 1rB 08007 Barcelona Telf. +34 93 272 11 72 (215) @-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AVÍS IMPORTANT: Aquest missatge i, si escau, els fitxers annexos, són exclusius per al seu destinatari i poden contenir informació privilegiada o confidencial. Si no sou el destinatari indicat, queda notificat que la utilització, difusió i còpia sense autorització està prohibida seguint la legislació vigent. Si heu rebut aquest missatge per error cal que ens ho comuniqueu immediatament per aquesta mateixa via i que procediu a la seva destrucció. AVISO IMPORTANTE: Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros anexos, se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario y pueden contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es usted el destinatario indicado, queda notificado que la utilización, divulgación y /o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. begin:vcard fn;quoted-printable:Jos=C3=A9 M=C2=AA Mart=C3=ADnez Guti=C3=A9rrez n;quoted-printable;quoted-printable:Mart=C3=ADnez Guti=C3=A9rrez;Jos=C3=A9 M=C2=AA org:Exepctra S.A.;Systems Development Design adr;quoted-printable;quoted-printable:1r A;;Consell de Cent N=C2=BA 357;Barcelona;Barcelona;08007;Espa=C3=B1a email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:+34 93 272 11 72 (215) tel;fax:+34 93 487 23 63 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.expectra.es version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: some quetsions about features and plugins
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: \me delurks. Welcome back ;) One certainly hopes so. But my current academic situation keeps me from putting non-trivial amounts of time into things other than work, so keeping a low profile. But this feature, or at least what I understand of it, comes close to my personal Dia wishlist. I don't buy this not just a plugin, so I'd rather like to improve on the things possible from a plug-in instead of being forced to develop every prototype in the core. I am not advocating that at all. By not just a plug-in, I meant a set of functions that can be called in any part of Dia. If it is possible to invoke plugins in this manner, then that's great! I have not done my homework in this area. 1) The first that comes to mind is changing the properties of some objects. Imagine being able to select all red lines and then making them dotted, for example! Already possible with a plug-in, namely selec_by.py - but apparently not well advertized. Maybe this plugin can be the starting point for Marleine. 2) This would also be useful for improving the properties dialog ... in its current state, the dialog becomes mostly useless if you try to change the properties of a large number of different objects. The box could have buttons that show objects grouped by different criteria, and allow the user to change properties for these selected subsets. As already mentioned I'm not sure I have understood the filtering ... idea. Didn't it mean selecting objects based on certain criteria, rather than selecting attributes of a group of objects? Yes, I am also talking about selected objects, not attributes. Say for example I select a few standard objects and a few UML objects and invoke the properties dialog. It would be nice to be able to say apply this change to only the standard objects even if the attribute in question is present on both types of objects. Another use would be to really filter objects from a selection. If I am only interested in the arrows in some region of the diagram, I could just select all objects in that region, and then filter out all objects that are not arrows. The internal code to do this kind of filtering might already be in place. One could think of just iterating through all objects for matches in the worst case. But the interface to the user for specifying these criteria would need a lot of thinking. I think I might be getting a bit of the track here. The original post mentions exploring the diagram. I guess he is interested in the ability to display objects based on some selected criteria ... more of a visual tool to mask and umask arbitrary parts of the diagram without resorting to layers. If every object and every distinct visible component of that object had an independent visible attribute, the tool could accomplish this by turning that attribute on and off when the user says so. Sameer. -- Research Scholar, Department of CSE, IIT Bombay http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~sameerds/ ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Maciej Jaros wrote: Dnia 2008-06-11 18:13 osoba przedstawiająca się jako José María Martínez napisała: I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? I believe that if you would try to define a standard for diagrams that wouldn't be too complex and would have enough functionality to build any diagram you would eventually end up with SVG ;-). SVG is a vector illustration format, not a structured diagram format. You might end up with something that uses SVG for the drawing bits, but then has a layer on top that defines connection points, logical behaviour etc. -Lars ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: some quetsions about features and plugins
On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:31 PM, Sameer Sahasrabuddhe wrote: Another use would be to really filter objects from a selection. If I am only interested in the arrows in some region of the diagram, I could just select all objects in that region, and then filter out all objects that are not arrows. The internal code to do this kind of filtering might already be in place. One could think of just iterating through all objects for matches in the worst case. But the interface to the user for specifying these criteria would need a lot of thinking. There's some of it there, in the Select menu, in that you can choose how new selections interact with the current selection. It's not omnipotent, but it could do your example above (select an arrow, select Same Type, select Intersection, select the area). I do think the underlying code is slightly broken at the moment, i.e. it doesn't work, but it shoudl be a simple fix to get it back to working, as it has worked previously.. Possibly it's just something that went wrong in the GtkAction conversion. -Lars ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
I don't think Dia exists to end the dominance of Visio. I think Dia exists for people who have the interest in working on an open source diagramming tool to do so. It gives them the ability to make a diagramming tool that works the way they want it to. Visio provides no effective mechanism for an individual to steer its development. Open source does. This why there are often several open source programs that do the same vaguely related tasks. For example, GIMP, Inkscape, Dia and so on. If all one wants is free software, then one must accept what the worker bees have done or join in. I think as a general rule open source programs serve and satisfy the people that work on them. It is only the new users who do not work on them that are dissatisfied. As a matter of fact enhancing the usability of programs turns out to be a fine way to make them less efficient for experienced power users (not a comment specific to open source programs). Someone posted a link to a very nice article on just this topic in years past (usability, open source, etc.). If anyone remembers that link I would love to have it again. Mike On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Andrew Marlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am really pleased that at last we have ODF for officially defining an open format for documents. But I think we are still missing the equivalent for diagrams. I realise that dia produces output in a number of formats but none of these are any kind of standard for diagrams that I am aware of. If there was such a std then dia could be one program among several that implement the std. We would then see survival of the fitest. Suerly this would be a good thing. At the moment dia is just one open source diagraming tool among several (albeit, a good one). What plans are there to try to arrive at a std? Without one I do not see the dominance of Visio ever changing. Regards, Andrew Marlow http://www.andrewpetermarlow.co.uk Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.htmlhttp://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia -- Michael Ross = Cycling in Central North Carolina Schwinn Voyageur 11.8 Linear LWB, Greenspeed GTO, BikeE CT, AT ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
I am not sure if an standard of it could be made in the strict sense of the word. Diagrams are used for too many kind of representations in many different ways. And example could be an electronic circuit analysis in blocks vs a genealogical tree. (The last having a std. format) Both are too much different so it will depend on the application. Just using a zipped XML with a png screnshoot like in ODF will be good enough (i don't know how is the actual format). And of course, the format should be on top of SVG, then any exporting or printing functionality would be done by a common library for svg. But what dia really needs is to leave the old multiwindows (gimp like) interface which makes it really ugly and nonstandard and make the main widget embeddable for other tools like Abiword, OOo, IDEs, Visual programming languages, electronic circuits, etc. When most programs adopts dia as the main widget for diagrams then its native format will be the standard. Cheers 2008/6/11 Lars Clausen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Maciej Jaros wrote: Dnia 2008-06-11 18:13 osoba przedstawiająca się jako José María Martínez napisała: I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? I believe that if you would try to define a standard for diagrams that wouldn't be too complex and would have enough functionality to build any diagram you would eventually end up with SVG ;-). SVG is a vector illustration format, not a structured diagram format. You might end up with something that uses SVG for the drawing bits, but then has a layer on top that defines connection points, logical behaviour etc. -Lars ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: some quetsions about features and plugins
Am 11.06.2008 13:46, Marleine Daoud schrieb: On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:08 PM, Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As already mentioned I'm not sure I have understood the filtering ... idea. Didn't it mean selecting objects based on certain criteria, rather than selecting attributes of a group of objects? It did mean selecting objects based on a certain criteria. Would the easiest way for implementing this, be to search in the data-structure loaded in memory and the same way for comparing between two files or versions: load them and compare their data-structure? I think so. As a starting point you may want to look at the plug-in mentioned in my other reply to this thread. See: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/dia/trunk/plug-ins/python/select_by.py?view=markup Hans at Breuer dot Org --- Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.-- Dilbert ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
On 2008-06-11 at 21:40 Lars Clausen wrote: On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Maciej Jaros wrote: On 2008-06-11 18:13 José María Martínez wrote: I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? I believe that if you would try to define a standard for diagrams that wouldn't be too complex and would have enough functionality to build any diagram you would eventually end up with SVG ;-). SVG is a vector illustration format, not a structured diagram format. You might end up with something that uses SVG for the drawing bits, but then has a layer on top that defines connection points, logical behaviour etc. I think you can do all that with SVG (though it probably wouldn't look very nice and would probably have to extend SVG a bit as Inkscape does). But what I really wanted to say is what Diego Jacobi said - I believe there are simply to many possible kinds of diagrams to have a usable standard. By standard I mean something that is fairly constant which again I believe isn't possible for diagrams. But maybe all new things are done by people that didn't know they were impossible when they did it ;). So I'm keeping my fingers crossed - maybe Dia's XML could become close to a standard some day. Regards, Nux Bądź niegrzeczny, wrr. Zasiądź do stołu gier i poczuj dreszczyk emocji! Nikomu nie powiemy;) http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fgryonline.wp.pl%2Fkonkurs21.htmlsid=384 ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
Where is the info describing the dia format? It is the same as a shape? It would be nice, the shape being the same thing as a diagram. Cheers. 2008/6/11 Maciej Jaros [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008-06-11 at 21:40 Lars Clausen wrote: On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Maciej Jaros wrote: On 2008-06-11 18:13 José María Martínez wrote: I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? I believe that if you would try to define a standard for diagrams that wouldn't be too complex and would have enough functionality to build any diagram you would eventually end up with SVG ;-). SVG is a vector illustration format, not a structured diagram format. You might end up with something that uses SVG for the drawing bits, but then has a layer on top that defines connection points, logical behaviour etc. I think you can do all that with SVG (though it probably wouldn't look very nice and would probably have to extend SVG a bit as Inkscape does). But what I really wanted to say is what Diego Jacobi said - I believe there are simply to many possible kinds of diagrams to have a usable standard. By standard I mean something that is fairly constant which again I believe isn't possible for diagrams. But maybe all new things are done by people that didn't know they were impossible when they did it ;). So I'm keeping my fingers crossed - maybe Dia's XML could become close to a standard some day. Regards, Nux Bądź niegrzeczny, wrr. Zasiądź do stołu gier i poczuj dreszczyk emocji! Nikomu nie powiemy;) http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fgryonline.wp.pl%2Fkonkurs21.htmlsid=384 ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
Re: a standard for diagram document format
I don't know where the documentation is, but simply in tinkering with dia files you'll see that it is indeed a compressed xml file. In the save dialog if you uncheck the compress option you'll get an html file out of it. Alex Diego Jacobi wrote: Where is the info describing the dia format? It is the same as a shape? It would be nice, the shape being the same thing as a diagram. Cheers. 2008/6/11 Maciej Jaros [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008-06-11 at 21:40 Lars Clausen wrote: On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Maciej Jaros wrote: On 2008-06-11 18:13 José María Martínez wrote: I agree, but does anybody knows if exists any std format for diagrams? I believe that if you would try to define a standard for diagrams that wouldn't be too complex and would have enough functionality to build any diagram you would eventually end up with SVG ;-). SVG is a vector illustration format, not a structured diagram format. You might end up with something that uses SVG for the drawing bits, but then has a layer on top that defines connection points, logical behaviour etc. I think you can do all that with SVG (though it probably wouldn't look very nice and would probably have to extend SVG a bit as Inkscape does). But what I really wanted to say is what Diego Jacobi said - I believe there are simply to many possible kinds of diagrams to have a usable standard. By standard I mean something that is fairly constant which again I believe isn't possible for diagrams. But maybe all new things are done by people that didn't know they were impossible when they did it ;). So I'm keeping my fingers crossed - maybe Dia's XML could become close to a standard some day. Regards, Nux Bądź niegrzeczny, wrr. Zasiądź do stołu gier i poczuj dreszczyk emocji! Nikomu nie powiemy;) http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fgryonline.wp.pl%2Fkonkurs21.htmlsid=384 ___ Dia-list mailing list Dia-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/dia-list FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
