Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: this conversation in several variances is being considered currently elsewhere on the net, particularly around the issue of virtual worlds Yes, and virtual worlds are a topic which have been severely overlooked in much discussion related to the digital divide - perhaps because infrastructure lags so much that it isn't even seen as an issue. Steve's example is right on target. academics hold the center stage because they control the grades/certification which provide for student advancement. That is the one unique product that universities, in click or brick space have to offer. And it is the one reason in the dominant US model that get's student attention for the sage on the stage Yes, I agree - though I have a clear bias as an autodidact. But even as an autodidact, I admit and perhaps even celebrate the sage - but sometimes the sage is not in the nestled cave of academia but instead is the person next to you, literally or figuratively. And this is where collaboration comes in - the sages are all over. The trouble is finding the good sages - and not everyone can find the good sages since not everyone considers critical thought and challenging of the sages as good practice. Sages, sages, sages. What we're really talking about is osmosis; the moving of knowledge through a permeable membrane. And let's be fair - people, like water, have a tendency to take the shortest route unless there is some culture that enforces the longer route. 'Here there be dragons', that sort of thing. So here's a good question for people in and out of academia: Which membrane is more permeable, the academic institution or the sea of knowledge (with admitted large portions of debris, some toxic)? What business has found out, as have many others, is that social networks (those articles that Steve cites as examples) allow knowledge to be gained in entirely different and collaborative fashion, a fashion that academics might call cheating or disrespectful of the sage. While, Mark is right, that these technologies will find a place in The Academy, they are, almost more importantly, a mirror for the educational system which passively makes the point that Steve so eloquently made. The brick space structure with the sage is a vestigial manifestation of the good old days, going back to pre-print where knowledge was transmitted by those who had the information stored in their heads or had access to the very few collections of knowledge such as the libraries of Alexandria. And those few collections of information were only available to the select few - and those few taught their own perspectives of what they read instead of opening the information to be challenged. It is not important that universities adopt the technologies as much as that they realize that, all factors considered, a brick space campus in its current embodiment is probably untenable- note the increasing cost in human lives (adjucnts) and rising tuition. And not to forget the decreased affordability due to large portions of the population not having as much buying power with recent developments in the global economy. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
tom abeles wrote: How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? This smacks of Metzger's 'Academic Freedom in the Age of the University', written in the early 1970s (1971, I believe). And it makes sense, especially in the modern context. Lehrfreheit and Lernfreheit are important factors often overlooked - and were a fair part of the German University, which the American University was modeled after. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Reinvent the word, not the concept, because the word telecenter does not convey meaning to anyone who doesn't already know what it means. Whereas community computing center does convey meaning even if you never heard the phrase before. In other words, telecenter is already jargon that has meaning only to insiders (which is the definition of jargon). It seems too early in the work of getting computing into African villages to start using jargon that villagers won't understand. Sarah Blackmun, proponent of community computing no matter what it's called The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cindy Lemcke-Hoong Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:26 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Mon, 22/9/08, Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Monday, 22 September, 2008, 5:55 AM On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Fw: Re: PhD research on OLPC
Oh, yeah! Just go spend a few days in an African village and then come back and tell me what it is you think you can sell there. Composting toilets? (50% of Ghanaian villagers have NO toilets of any kind and use the bushes.) Solar lanterns? Some unknown majority of Ghanaian villagers use KEROSENE (a dangerous poison) to light their homes. Post-harvest processing equipment? A big part of every harvest rots in the marketplace because the village doesn't have canning or bottling or packaging equipment. Foot-operated irrigation equipment? 99% of African farms are watered only by rain, only in the rainy season. School uniforms and notebooks for all children, including girls? AT least 1/2 of African girls don't go to secondary school. I bet there are 100 other appropriate, low-cost products that villagers would buy before a laptop computer Sarah The narratives of the world are numberless. . . . there nowhere is nor has been a people without narrative.--Roland Barthes Sarah Blackmun-Eskow President, The Pangaea Network 290 North Fairview Avenue Goleta CA 93117 805-692-6998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.pangaeanetwork.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arthur richards Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: [DDN] Fw: Re: PhD research on OLPC I think quite frankly in the developing world where I was brought up and come from an OLPC is not the first need, it is not the second, it is not the third, nor the fourth need nor the 10th most important need! Business people want to sell and still have their heads in the sand that a parent or government is going to squander $100 or $200 to buy a laptop when that parent does not earn that in one year! Wake up guys! Go to where you want to sell these things and come back. You might just change your mind. Arthur --- On Mon, 22/9/08, Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Received: Monday, 22 September, 2008, 1:55 PM On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs, and the user's time to learn and use the technology. It is simply that an OLPC is so out-of-context in the lives of the average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at the 3rd world point-of-view. The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the same be said for the OLPC? J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. Make the switch to the world#39;s best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi, Cindy! My post was not intended as a response to your inquiry (to which I extend my apologies), but to segue BACK to the topic (OLPC) by relating it to telecenters. Personally, I am in favor of both developments. BayangPinoy has been working for the implementation of community/telecenters in the Philippines for over 10 years now, and we actually look forward to a $100 PC as something that a community of 100 families can afford 5 units of (as the HW component of the telecenters). FYI, my post was intended to point out that community centers (and telecenters) are focused on COMMUNITY, while OLPCs (P - PERSONAL) and other computer technologies are focused on individuals that can afford at least: a) $100 for a computer, b) $20/month for acceptable broadband, c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), and presumably: c) understands English (to maximize the value of the material available on the internet) d) has access to electronic bank accounts or credit cards (to be able to participate in ecommerce), e) has the time / motivation / (?luxury) of catching up to all the background knowledge that is a prerequisite of a point-and-click networked system. These items (a-e) are definitely not easy (or even possible) for the majority of the citizens of under-developed countries. Regards, J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC. To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. Just another new terms that says the same thing. Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] ICT scope (was - Re: PhD research on OLPC)
Hi, Taran! I would hasten to add telephones and cellphones. The Philippine experience of becoming the largest users of SMS was due to the high availability of affordable (prepaid) communications. This was in response to the poor penetration of telephone services (to the point where it was actually mandated by the government). Consider also some of the prevailing buzzwords - iPhone, VoIP, Unified Communications, etc. To me, this points to both grassroots acceptance and technology-driven initiatives towards person-to-person real time ICTs. Regards, J Galgana BayangPinoy Organization, Inc. On 10/3/08, Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the interesting insights. Videos, TVs, radios and ICTs are enablers. I am not nitpicking, but trying to understand how the phrase 'ICT' is understood by others. To me, ICT includes video, television and radio since they are all information and communication technologies. I am curious if others see the same or if I am a minority. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
Hi Tom, Sorry to be so slow in responding. For some reason I missed this message of yours when it arrived. Perhaps it would be useful to put the matter of moving out of what Bourdieu called the scholastic enclosure into the new spaces of communication technology into an action research mode. For example: we know that the poor nations aren't going to meet the Millenium Development Goals for education by erecting buildings to teach and house those now left untaught. The real choice is between online learning or no learning. One question, then, for research is how to bring computers and students together. Sarah talked about community computers. I've used the term social computers, to contrast with the taken-for-granted rich country assumption of the personal computer. The telecentre is one approach to the social computer, and it has clear limitations. We can put a computer in a school, a church, a kiosk, a cafe and it can serve one, three, five students. Will such an approach do the job? We don't know for sure, but we can try, keep careful records and report results. On the matter of pedagogy: perhaps we need a transitional strategy, rather than insisting that all existing syllabi and curriculum materials and instructional strategies are hopelessly inadequate, an approach guaranteed to frighten or threaten or anger many of the faculty whose support we need. I, for one, would rather make existing instructional strategies made available via ICT than nothing at all. Again, we encourage an action research approach, and we report on how well the traditional pedagogies do when compared to the new ones that seem more authentic and relevant to us. Steve On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:19 AM, tom abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve You are right, there are transitions and there are different models. What might be appropriate today in Ghana might be different, today in the US. The approach of education planners is to want to eventually find the one global model. Yet with technology, as you suggest, there are many models for learning including different approaches from didactic, sage of stage, to a problem-based-learning model as examples. The difference, today, seems to me to revolve around the ability of the knowledge to come to those that need it when and where they need it. Information packages nicely and doesn't necessarily require paved four lane controlled access roads. It is strange and wonderous to see how knowledge travels in dispersed rural communities where everyone knows everyone's business and problem solving knowledge travels across fields almost by magic. The issue is one of scarcity and control. That we learned, in the west from the Church who had a problem when the Vulgate appeared. Just go to the iTunes store and go to podcasts and search for a subject and see what is available, free. And we are just starting Think about motivated home school students in the US and students eager to learn, around the world but who have to work so the family can eat. How long before we figure out that brick-spaces dedicated only for educational purposes need to be repurposed in order to better meet what they are delivering almost like zombies walking down the street. What virtual larning options do is to point out that the current model is like the consumptive in Poe's short story of Valdemer. A snap of the fingers will break the trance and the system will plunge into chaos. The people who have a vested interest in the status quo and the idea of mapping technology in the schools are the schools of education who have no other model. They are like the brakemen in the caboose or the last flight engineer in the 3 person cockpits of modern airliners. thoughts? tom tom abeles Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:47:55 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC In a message here filled with much good sense Tom Abeles says this: thinking about mapping click space technology into brick space thinking. We might begin by trying to understand why radio, television, film--all the earlier technologies that promised to reform education--have failed to make a difference in what goes on in those brick spaces that Tom talks about. Winston Churchill said this: We shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. That is: the school building and its classrooms and lecture halls is not merely a container that can house instruction organized around the computer or radio or television as easily as it can accommodate teacher-led instruction: the building--Tom's brick space--shapes what goes on within in it. Anthony Giddens says spatial arrangements are constitutive. The school building, then, is not a neutral container that can house any kind of instruction, but is a decisive and determining factor in the shaping of teaching and learning.
Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? Cindy In response to Cindy's inquiry, please refer to a discussion on the topic in 1994 which I find valid still. The links are as follows: 1) My response to an initial request for a definition of Telecenters: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/pipermail/telecentres/2004-October/000238.html 2) Taran's response re Telecenters: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/pipermail/telecentres/2004-October/000244.html Regards, - Joel ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] ICT scope (was - Re: PhD research on OLPC)
Taran Very good point... we must share a definition in order to communicate effectively... I snicker as I recall a story from a friend as he participated in planning meeting for an ICT award by a UN body... the person in charge of the project interrupted the meeting when someone was talking about a experience with community radio... saying loudly: that is not ICT... makes me laugh each time I think of the situation... but then again... maybe I am weird... coming from the education side of ICT4D I see all educational technologies as ICT... from overhead projectors to marker boards... they are all technologies used to communicate and share information in a variety of forms... yet I also tend to think ICT must use electricity... nevertheless if you stick to a a definition of storing and retrieving information electricity is not needed on a blackboard... --- so it all depends on the definition one uses... I did a quick search of definitions... sure seems no two are the same Tim _ John Tim Denny, Ph.D. Advisor- International Development, Education and ICT Executive Director, PC4peace http://www.pc4peace.org Advisory Board, Masters of Development Studies -RUPP International Journal of Multicultural Education, Electronic Green Journal http://www.avuedigitalservices.com/VR/drjtdenny Join Cambodia Joomla! Users group - http://groups.google.com/jugcam The diligent farmer plants trees of which he himself will never see the fruit. Cicero (106-43 BCE) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the interesting insights. Videos, TVs, radios and ICTs are enablers. I am not nitpicking, but trying to understand how the phrase 'ICT' is understood by others. To me, ICT includes video, television and radio since they are all information and communication technologies. I am curious if others see the same or if I am a minority. -- Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.your2ndplace.com http://www.opendepth.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- _ ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
