Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
Thanks for your constructive personal opinion, Taran: it is all the more valuable because of your experience as admin. I've only been a user - well, theoretically managing some on-site discussions for a while before they got scrapped, but their were very few posts there. Between your lines: On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Taran Rampersad taran.a.ramper...@gmail.com wrote: Personal opinion, meant constructively: DigitalDivide.net used to count, I think. I've gone through with admin powers and removed spam blog postings, deleted spam users, and so forth. I'm not sure exactly when that problem started - probably along the timeline that all the spam comments on the blogs started showing up. The explanation for how all of that happened and was handled is a bit sketchy, so it's difficult to say. As far as I remember, there was a chonological coincidence between the rise of spam comments to blog entries and the big hacking of the on-site discussion boards during the 2nd WSIS in 2005. Spammers started using redirecting scripts in their profiles and in their comments. So script use was made impossible by admins. Then they directed to other free-hosted pages where they used those scripts. Etc. But already before that, the mailing-list had become the main exchange tool for DDNers, I think. We'd post to our DDN blogs, but often just fed them from another blog through RSS. I've been doing that for a while, because the DDN blog filter always tells me I'm attempting to post improper stuff I am unable to identify if I attempt to do it straight, whereas it doesn't if the same stuff comes through RSS. The email list is stifled. And honestly, if I did have the time and energy to volunteer for moderating this email list, I would. But I have moderated email lists and discussion boards before, and they can be very problematic. Moderation requires someone whose eyes are on every message and who has the time to do things. Yes, the e-mail list is stifled. But isn't it because people hesitate to post to it because they don't know when the post will get through? And couldn't moderation be technically simplified in part by making it plain-text no-attachments only (I'm thinking of Andy's message about people attempting to post messages with huge attachments)? Sure, moderation can be problematic: in the 3 Italian ones I mentioned before, I was made asst-manager because they had gone haywire in various ways, yet all based on the fact that the archives were private. People started to behave more decently after we made them public - after due consultation none of the trolls paid attention to: they left and limited themselves to sending the managers personal insults and threats. The archives of the DDN list are already public, so this should probably limit trolling. Present and past moderators could perhaps tell what proportion of trolling and spam they have to delete? And all of this gets back to the future of DDN because in my mind there is a question that there is a future of DDN. I think a lot of things are the result of the best intentions. If there is to be a future of DDN, we need to move past that and move into what the community wants. And while the community has pointed out that discussion has been stunted by moderation, the truth is that the wiki was presented and remains largely unused. There may still be a psychological reluctance to use wikis, even among DDNers. In other socially oriented projects and actions I participate in, the mailing-list seems to remain the prefered vehicle. Other tools get used by smaller sub-groups (wikis for the preparation of a statement then submitted to the list, e.g.). That might be a Digital Divide issue we might address. So before we get into technicalities again, as well as human moderation of email messages, I suggest that people on the list consider whether they want DDN to have a future. That seems to be missing. From there, we can decide what that future will be. Personally, I do. Web 2.0 - many applications of which I discovered thanks to DDN mailing list discussions - raised great enthusiasm and hopes, but it might time for an assessment of their actual opportunities, uses and implications. Some Feature Story articles (see http://www.digitaldivide.net/articles/index.php) are about this. But first, people have to decide that they want it - and decide what they are willing to do toward a future of DDN. Hence my willingness to co-moderate the mailing-list. Not only to prevent spam, trolling and behemoth attachments, but to try and incite people to share again there the DDN-related experiences they are involved in elsewhere: exploration of new tools, accessibility and usability issues, their usefulness for the promotion of education, health, welfare and human rights in general, blocks against them and how to cirvumvent them - etc. Best Claude -- Claude Almansi ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
Could I join Michael below. As another normally silent but very interested witness, I think that DDN still has a very useful role to play. Our work here at CLICT is mostly focussed on urban/rural digital divide issues within the EU as well as digital divide issues in Kenya, India and a number of other countries...but we follow developments all over the world with great interest. There are so many issues that we have in common...as well as a few which are special across cultures... that listening in on what colleagues have to say is truly a salutary experience. There are multiple uses for DDN which we may not have yet properly explored or exploited...and since all of us are so busy the problems that have been raised over the past few days are understandable...but let's cogitate a bit more and keep the list going while we think of ways to improve matters all round. Meanwhile, I take this opportunity to convey our very best wishes for a very Happy New Year 2009 to all members. Joe Professor Joseph A. Cannataci Director, Centre for Law, Information Converging Technologies Harris Building HB260 University of Central Lancashire Preston PR1 2HE England UK Tel: 0044 1772 893947 Fax: 0044 1772 892908 e-mail: jacannat...@uclan.ac.uk Web: www.uclan.ac.uk/clict Michael Malahy Morris mmmor...@unm.edu 31/12/2008 00:25 I have been a silent but interested witness to the list serve for several years now and have found this counsel by Taran to be the absolute best advice I have seen on DDs survival and prospects in many months. If we do not follow (even with modification) her suggestions here, I fear the network will not survive for long. My work in the Southwestern United States and with colleagues elsewhere in the world tell me we need DD but someone has to wrap their hands, heart and mind around this process and give us better direction. I also do not have the time (or the inside knowledge) to do this but I know we need this tool and its voices. Michael Malahy Morris Research Professor in Public Policy University of New Mexico On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:36:29 -0400 Taran Rampersad taran.a.ramper...@gmail.com wrote: Personal opinion, meant constructively: DigitalDivide.net used to count, I think. I've gone through with admin powers and removed spam blog postings, deleted spam users, and so forth. I'm not sure exactly when that problem started - probably along the timeline that all the spam comments on the blogs started showing up. The explanation for how all of that happened and was handled is a bit sketchy, so it's difficult to say. The email list is stifled. And honestly, if I did have the time and energy to volunteer for moderating this email list, I would. But I have moderated email lists and discussion boards before, and they can be very problematic. Moderation requires someone whose eyes are on every message and who has the time to do things. And all of this gets back to the future of DDN because in my mind there is a question that there is a future of DDN. I think a lot of things are the result of the best intentions. If there is to be a future of DDN, we need to move past that and move into what the community wants. And while the community has pointed out that discussion has been stunted by moderation, the truth is that the wiki was presented and remains largely unused. So before we get into technicalities again, as well as human moderation of email messages, I suggest that people on the list consider whether they want DDN to have a future. That seems to be missing. From there, we can decide what that future will be. But first, people have to decide that they want it - and decide what they are willing to do toward a future of DDN. Andy Carvin wrote: Does the DDN website (www.digitaldivide.net) and TakingITGlobal not count, Deborah? Andy Carvin andycarvin at yahoo com www.andycarvin.com www.pbs.org/learningnow -- Taran Rampersad taran.a.ramper...@gmail.com http://www.knowprose.com ( http://www.knowprose.com/ ) http://www.your2ndplace.com ( http://www.your2ndplace.com/ ) http://www.opendepth.com ( http://www.opendepth.com/ ) http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by Creating - Michelangelo The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine. - Nikola Tesla ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word
[DDN] why not googlegroups - Re: The future of DDN
hi all first of all a happy new year to everyone hope 2009 gives us a good ddn why not just unmoderate the group and let members just delete what they don't want and let google do the backend job for us regards to everyone rene y3k foundation -- Original Message -- To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group (digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net) From: Dave Chakrabarti (d...@digitalraindrop.com) Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN Date: 12/31/2008 1:43:55a Hi Tom, Andy, others, I agree with Tom; I suspect there are cost-effective alternatives here, which it would be well worth exploring. On the other hand, I disagree with Tom on the concerns over approving postings...it completely stifles discussion when it takes a month for emails to trickle through. We've gone through a couple of cycles of this with the future of DDN conversation, and I barely remember what was on the original wiki, or what was said in email followups; this conversation could have happened in days, instead of months. It also poses a significant disincentive to posting at all. If we can't identify or create a working medium for the conversation, then the information you're asking for can't really be used effectively. As I've mentioned before, I'd love to volunteer to help manage the mailing list! Let me know what our possible next steps are. Dave. -- Dave Chakrabarti Project Manager Chicago Technology Cooperative www.chicagotech.org On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:56 AM, tom abeles wrote: What I have not seen in this exchange is the cost for the system including: a) the number of staff, their positions, full or part time and the over all costs for each area (not individuals), mgmt, tech support, etc b) the overhead costs for hardware, software and other maint. issues c) other costs. In other words, what does the quick books version of this operation look like d) what is the proposed model going forward- maintain the status quo or build a new, different and potentially lower cost operation My bet is that the current model which was funded by the WB and other sources is not the lean/mean web versions that so many other networks are using. If the above are not put on the table then there is no way to understand what the next steps should be. Concerns over approving postings etc are mis-directions and not the issue at hand dr. tom p abeles, president sagacity, inc 3704 11th ave south minneapolis, mn 55407 tabe...@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:38:41 -0400 To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net From: taran.a.ramper...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN /me hums Drupal's theme at Tobias as well. Tobias Eigen wrote: Thanks Adam - this is all very interesting. I think the biggest problem I am seeing is that emails get stacked up for approval - this really limits any real discussion that might take place here on this list. I'd propose either opening it up or recruiting some volunteers to help manage the approval queue on a daily if not more regular basis. The ning idea is a good one, especially since it's a free (advertising driven) platform. I believe educators can get advertising-free spaces. Another platform well suited for email-empowered online communities is golightly, used at http://groups.nten.org If you are really concerned about costs for DDN into the future, then rolling your own site might not be a great idea. Cheers, Tobias On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:07 AM, adamcl...@takingitglobal.org wrote: Thanks for the responses to our idea of what to do with DDN :) To clear somethings up: -Tobias asked if the donation for membership is voluntary or not. We have no intention of charging people to access DDN. What we do want to do is identify people who are financial supporters of DDN. We don't have a donation system set up yet because we wanted to make sure that it was a good idea first. -The wiki issue is being looked into. The system should be able to handle your existing DDN login information so you don't have to create two accounts and login to both all the time. -Taran's idea of GoogleAds is interesting and we'll have our tech team see how easy it is to implement. Which should be very easy. The hard part will be finding a space for them as we don't want GoogleAds on the front page of DDN has it may make the site look less credible. Any thoughts on that note? -Many people have suggested moving DDN to a new system. This is just as hard (or even harder) than keeping our current system running. We've though about this at TIG and were moving ahead with our system because it is the easiest for our developers to work on. Adam Clare ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a
Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
To facilitate and encourage discussion while dealing with users who break the discussion rules. It's pretty straightforward. btw, one thing to point out - if the group decides to migrate to another tool - googlegroups, etc - there may be some integration work required because membership to the list can be controlled through the digitaldivide.net website membership. Andy Carvin andycarvin at yahoo com www.andycarvin.com www.pbs.org/learningnow - Original Message From: Cindy Lemcke-Hoong cindylemcke_ho...@yahoo.co.uk To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:13:26 AM Subject: Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN) First of all can someone, such as Andy Carvin, come up with a to-do/qualifications/expectation etc. list for moderator? Without that, some qualified persons might shy away from volunteering. Cindy = cindyho...@gmail.com --- On Tue, 30/12/08, Andy Carvin andycar...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Andy Carvin andycar...@yahoo.com Subject: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN) To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Date: Tuesday, 30 December, 2008, 6:34 PM Hi Tom, The problem is that there isn't an official moderator at the moment. Technically I'm not supposed to be moderating the list anymore because I work for NPR News and I can't be involved directly in policy discussions, but the moderating from TakingITGlobal sometimes runs behind. I would suggest that DDN members try to find three or four people who could share the moderating duties, and I'm sure the TIG folks would be happy to get them set up. Either way, I really shouldn't be doing it as long as I work for NPR. ac Andy Carvin andycarvin at yahoo com www.andycarvin.com www.pbs.org/learningnow - Original Message From: tom abeles tabe...@hotmail.com To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:20:20 PM Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN hmm, how long between submission and approval as in this just released batch of postings. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-requ...@digitaldivide.net with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
