Re: [DDN] A Stand Against Wikipedia

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

I use Wikipedia for lots of research for my own consumptions. Some of them even 
related to medical information. I am even planning to give donation to show my 
appreciation of the work done by so many excellent volunteers. There are many 
excellent, high quality materials, but there are also the question of 'equal' 
quality on all the materials found on Wikipedia. 

Therefore I can see the point why Middlebury College is banning the use of it. 
I personally would Wikipedia anytime for background research and reference, but 
I do not think I should cite Wikipedia as source. In my case is because I do 
not know who is the author therefore I cannot research on the validity of the 
authors. Perhaps some would argue that an article from The Economist would not 
necessary have the name of the author either. But then The Economist would 
stand behind what she published. I am not sure Wikipedia would 
officially/legally able to do that. 

Cindy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


"David P. Dillard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Me again.  I do not think a group of faculty members at various
institutions changes the equation much.  There is a growing group of
professional educators who recognize and support value in the Wikipedia. A
recent poster to EDTECH, an H-Net discussion group, who is a library
science faculty member indicated in a post that she is beginning to have
major second thoughts about prior negative attitudes toward the Wikipedia.
I suspect many reference librarians in academic and public libraries see
the good and try to teach students in reference encounters to use their
thinking and analyzing skills to find and deal with any bad in the
Wikipedia.

EDTECH



There are 173 posts that mention Wikipedia on EDTECH and these are quite
interesting and overall more positive in overall trend than what one might
find in discussion of this source on a medieval history scholars list or a
discussion group of philosophy professors.  Those who engage in rigorous
scholarship will be very likely to miss the values of a tool like the
Wikipedia and not realize as well some of the powerful uses of Google,
Ask.com, Yahoo and so forth.  But this will be counterbalanced by many in
K-12 fields, as well as those in colleges who teach curriculums like
business or journalism or even fields like sociology or medicine who see
some important positive sides of this resource.

I do apologize for the last segment of my first post as I was trying to
finish rapidly as I needed to be at a meeting and I did not communicate in
that last sentence.  My point was that Google and the Wikipedia have been
heavily covered as a source for information in lots of Net-Gold posts and
as a topic of discussion in many Net-Gold posts.  The Wikipedia will
remain a controversial tool, but many will recognize its values and use it
and this includes some of those folks in academic circles.

Here is the quote of the library and information science professor that I
alluded to above in this post.


"4. Finally, have you changed your mind about some tech in the last year.
For example, I used to be 100% leery of Wikipedia, but now see its pluses.
I am interested in things that have just lately caught your eye. They do
nothave to be brand new, but new to you. They can be useful, entertaining,
or of course both!

Only a few things come to my tired brain right now

I have definitely changed my tune about wikipedia.  I still teach kids to
be more than a little sceptical - but you absolutely can't beat it as a
place to start researching new trends/issues/people etc."


From: Mary Ann Bell 
List Editor: EDTECH Editor-Jones 
Editor's Subject: HIT: New devices, apps, sites (second of two)
Author's Subject: HIT: New devices, apps, sites (second of two)
Date Written: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:31:47 -0500


*
"Try curiosity!"--Dorothy Parker
*

Dr. Mary Ann Bell
Associate Professor, Library Science
Sam Houston State University
Huntsville, TX
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

month=0701&week=b&msg=2rqkHtOkpvr8SXYUnBSC4g&user=&pw=>

A shorter URL for the above link:





Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Net-Gold


General Internet & Print Resources



Digital Divide Network

Educator-Gold




On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, Kinyua Martin wrote:

> This is a blow to a wonderful resource. Professors should probably take
> a greater role in reviewing the material on Wikipedia. With time the
> resource will become more and more accurate as opposed to discouraging
> its use altogether.

> Martin Kinyua
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: David P. Dillard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:55 PM
> To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
> Subject: [DDN] A Stand Against Wikipedia


> REFERENCE: ENCYCLOPEDIAS :
> REFERENCE: TOOLS: ELECTRONIC ONLINE AND INTERNET:
> A Stand Against Wikipedia

>

Re: [DDN] Intel, $100 Laptop program form new partnership

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

What I also find interesting is, we assumed "the person who is using the 
system" = to the REAL person who registered for the learning venture. Even if 
we have system that is similar to those startracks movies, or very high 
security system such as what I saw Tom Cruise on Mission Impossible (1996??) 
... where finger prints, palm prints etc. are applied ... that would still not 
tell me who is behind the screen. 

But I supposed I can borrow REAL BOOKs and not read, and the library might 
thing I love that kind of books? 

Cindy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




=

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [DDN] Live event in Second Life / Register now

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Shame ... I don't have Second Life. The topic itself is something that I would 
dearly love to participate.  

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: See you there (Nobody Fugazi). Right 
up my alley, too - 
http://www.cardicis.org

Michael Thomas wrote:
> Wireless Ready: Interactivity, Collaboration and Feedback in Language
> Learning Technologies, Nagoya, Japan, 29th March 2008
>
> This one-day international symposium on language learning technologies will
> be simultaneously live in Second Life.
>
> Registration is now open in Second Life at the following URL. Click on
> 'sign-up' to register. Participants in SL will be able hear and see the
> presenters in Nagoya, Japan:
>
> http://slurl.com/secondlife/EduNation%20III/52/49/21/
> (requires SL to be installed)
>
>   
--
Taran Rampersad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.your2ndplace.com
http://www.opendepth.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/

"Criticize by Creating" - Michelangelo
"The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine." - 
Nikola Tesla

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Re: [DDN] Introductions what we do and how we contribute to close digital divide

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Alan, 
You wrote: 
<< I told them, they are trying to reach out to the poor (where EFA is
trying to reach out to the poor) with rich men's tools/platforms i.e
CDs or flash online platforms(requiring online broadband). Any attempt
at ICT in mass Education will never work using current tech.>>

Well written. That has always been my argument, not just on this platform. 

Cindy
=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Wed, 2/7/08, Foo HK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Foo HK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] Introductions what we do and how we contribute to close 
digital divide
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Wednesday, 2 July, 2008, 6:07 PM

Dear Marlene,
 
Thank you for your kind words.
 
As you can see, we are providing a unique solution to close the digital divide
using practical technology rather than high tech.
 
I have the opportunity to discuss this in the UNESCO forum about the failure of
Technology 
to close the digital divide and why UNESCO's goal of achieving EFA by 2015
will be a big challenge.
 
I told them, they are trying to reach out to the poor (where EFA is trying to
reach out to the poor) with rich men's tools/platforms i.e CDs or flash
online platforms(requiring online broadband). Any attempt at ICT in mass
Education will never work using current tech.
 
We further have developed a tool to be given free to Ministries of Education
and schools to enable any teacher to go to the next level from blackboards to
digital enabled saving lots of money in papers and chalks.
 
At the moment we are operating in Malaysia and our Ministry of education has
helped us to distribute to their schools free use of our tools and contents
especially the rural schools.
 
As for Africa, we met a few finalists of Stockholm Challenge 2008 from Zambia
and Uganda and they have expressed interest to introduce our solution to their
countries' Ministries of Education. 
 
We wish to reach out to Ministries of Education of third world countries to
have our tools and contents for free and see how using our solution what
normally cost hundreds of millions in software development and distribution
would cost pennies! 
 
Yes, using our platform,we are able to allow 380 million modules to be
downloaded per month for only US5-00 per month! Try that with flash systems or
CDs ...not possible.
 
Imagine what the MOE can do and reach for almost nothing universal reach of
contents relevent to their country. By being able to reach out to the most
remote areas, equitable education can become a reality until now impossible no
matter how much any govt spend.
 
If you would look at our site at www.paperlesshomework.com and see the number
of contents we are able to provide to the entire Malaysia (or world) and at the
cost of less than US30,000 spent so far would give you an idea how our AGE can
overcome the digital divide. We are funded by two small Malaysian government
grants. We have been encouraged to apply for larger funds for contents
development after this grant matures.
 
Since you do come in contact with NGOs all over Africa and sponsored by
Microsoft ( we were sponsored by Microsoft Malaysia too ), perhaps you can get
them to help us to reach out to schools in their areas to use our
contents/tools for free? We can empower their teachers to the next level
for free and raise funds for them too.
 
We would be going to China, India and Indonesia which together represent 2.7
billion people ie. nearly half the world population and get their schools to
use our AGE to save money and go green by using less paper. This we would
achieve in one stroke...
 
   1. A greener world with hundreds of millions of Ambassadors of Mother
Earth
   2. Bring better access and education to the rural poor
   3. Enables these three countries with huge rural poor schools up to rich
urban schools.levels for free
   4. Empowering teachers with a tool to create their own contents for free
   5. Saves hundreds of millions for their government in ICT implementation
   6. For the first time ICT in mass Education can work.
   7. Ideal for volunteer field workers ...seconds of download ...hours/days
of usage
 
Btw we are offering any school registering two free licences for their library
and for a teacher. This way we can enable every child access to our contents
free. We believe no child should be left behind.
 
This is our contribution to digital divide.
 
Regards
Alan 
 


--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Marlene Bramley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Marlene Bramley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] Introductions
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"

Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:39 AM

Hi there Alan 

Thank you for bringing up this point:) I agree with you that much talk and
little doing is the order of the day when it comes to these issues.  What we
are doing to bridge the gap is the following:

1. Create a web platform (in this case a collaborative website) where NGOs (who
work directly with people that suff

Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Actually the discussion of Taran about social-networking HAS a lot to do with 
digital divide. 

Assuming you are in need of some critical information, but you do not know 
where to find them (I know these days one can just go Googleling for info or 
Wikipediaing), don't you think it is nice if you could just turn to a trusted 
source for THE MOST EXACT info? That is where your 'community' becoming your 
best friends. 

We can have all the best communication technologies in this world, but if do 
not have the support of your 'communities' then what is the point of having all 
the knowledge? Do not assume either ALL the information one needs can be found 
online. Do not forget there are many knowledge are in someone elses's head and 
not put down on paper, or a disk. Furthermore there are times when the 
information one gets online is dubious, or you are in need of a sounding board 
to help you figure out the best way to tackle the problems, that is the time 
you would need a trusted community for expert help. 

Someone mentioned about different languages. Well, just take Wikipedia. The 
most entries is under the English language. BUT often time I found information 
in Dutch, of the same topic, gives me better info than English. But how many of 
us can speak more than one or two languages? Again, some human connections 
would be nice. 

Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or 
knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media. 

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sat, 9/8/08, Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Saturday, 9 August, 2008, 8:05 PM

Just wondering ... all these talks. Where are they leading to?

Lots of theories but would love to hear more about actual actions.

Anyone here actually improving digital divide and Human Health activities? And
how?

Alan 

--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Mary Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Mary Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"

Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 1:05 AM

Hi there
I think I asked the same question myself earlier??
 
Mary



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jorge Gallardo Rius
Sent: Sat 8/9/2008 16:11
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health



Hey guys,
  What does all this have to do with Health and the Digital Divide?

--- On Fri, 8/8/08, Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"

Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:10 PM

Taran,

Data is not a bad thing; it also is not every thing. Empiricism does not make
for truth anymore than feeling makes for empiricism. [Was Decartes correct of
did he just have it backward? Maybe instead of I think therefore I am, it is I
am, therefore I think...and because I think I *know* that I am!]

It takes a combination. Just as you say you need data, you cite a quixotic
novelist as your own "data". That's not a criticism, it is merely
a reflection fo the way we all are -- needing both "facts" and
"knowing," the latter of which often is other than or beyond facts or
empirical data.

Now, of course, data matter. And there is a dearth of solid data in many areas
of the electronic world. And from a data perspective, then, we can't really
"know" what works or to what depth. (It raises a huge question about
the actual validity of ANY online mechanisms, doesbn't it? About all we
truly know is that a lot of people [20% of 6 billion is still quite a bunch in
my limited thinking] use the heck out of this stuff and they use it in their
own
ways and for their own purposes, which often aren't OUR purposes or even
purposes we believe are "useful" or "valuable" or, even,
"right."

What was it Sam Clemmens once wrote? There are three kinds of lies: "lies,
damned lies and statistics." So it isn't just data but also the
quality
of the data -- how it was gathered, how it was conceived (!), how it was
interpreted -- that matters, as well.

As long as I have been actively involved in the online world, and I'd put
that right at about 20 years, I have believed (felt, sensed -- not known) that
no one really knows what is going on with all of the online "things."
As soon as someone says he/she does know, I am immediately skeptical. Companies
often do this: they love to prognosticate value or usage or some certain future
because it might benefit them in some way. The truth -- or better yet, my
belief
-- is that we all are still touching separate parts of the elephant and
describing it as the whole.

--Steve Snow
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
>From: Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROT

Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Correction -- MEDIA in the sentence below should be MEDIUM

Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or
 knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media.

Cindy
=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sun, 10/8/08, Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 5:30 PM

So..some concrete things:

--In Alaska, people are using satellites and computers to get counseling in
remote villages. Is this additive? Is it helpful? Don't know. No data. Yet.

--Here in North Carolina, there is a multi-node telepsychiatry initiative;
T1s to rural sites to bring diagnostic capability to areas where mental
health care is largely nonexistent. Helpful? I don't have data to say one
way or another. The equipment is expensive and the projects cost a lot to
mount and sustain. Would it be cheaper/better to entice a psychiatrist to do
this in person, even as a circuit-rider? Well, I don't know! IF you could
find one willing, and IF you could pay him/her enough to make it worth their
while...maybe.

--Pew surveys suggest that upwards of 150 million people use the web to get
health information every year...mainly people in the U.S. Is this additive?
What is the quality of the information they reach, and how do they know it
is actually the right information? Would they be better served going to a
doctor? Or picking up a book?

So there are these questions about, even on a cost-benefit basis, if
internet-mediated communication and information is worth it. To those of us
who are early adopters -- and that might be considered many of those on this
list -- we might find a lot of utility in the web. But we have grown with
the internet and the web and have an extended learning curve.

Information on the web is inadequately aggregated and poorly arranged and
not well-maintained. There is useful stuff there, but I don't think
anything
is served by a gee-whiz approach to the web; I can't say that I *know*
this,
but I do *think* that we have a long way to go before the web is really
useful to a big number of people. Now, 20% of 6 billions *is* a lot of
people, and they get some functionality out of all of this (probably mostly
email!) but it is a far cry from Dave Hughes's vision of wiring the planet.
We are still too west-focused, in information, usage and language to have
"big" usefulness...and then there are larger issues about the
narrowing of
interests and parochializing thought through the vertical nature of the
internetSo lots of questions. Health and the digital divide is right in
there.
Steve Snow
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 8/10/08 12:30 AM, "Cindy Lemcke-Hoong"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Actually the discussion of Taran about social-networking HAS a lot to do
with
> digital divide. 
> 
> Assuming you are in need of some critical information, but you do not know
> where to find them (I know these days one can just go Googleling for info
or
> Wikipediaing), don't you think it is nice if you could just turn to a
trusted
> source for THE MOST EXACT info? That is where your 'community'
becoming your
> best friends. 
> 
> We can have all the best communication technologies in this world, but if
do
> not have the support of your 'communities' then what is the point
of having
> all the knowledge? Do not assume either ALL the information one needs can
be
> found online. Do not forget there are many knowledge are in someone
elses's
> head and not put down on paper, or a disk. Furthermore there are times
when
> the information one gets online is dubious, or you are in need of a
sounding
> board to help you figure out the best way to tackle the problems, that is
the
> time you would need a trusted community for expert help.
> 
> Someone mentioned about different languages. Well, just take Wikipedia.
The
> most entries is under the English language. BUT often time I found
information
> in Dutch, of the same topic, gives me better info than English. But how
many
> of us can speak more than one or two languages? Again, some human
connections
> would be nice. 
> 
> Technologies is a media. Without HUMAN to pull or push for information or
> knowledge, technologies would forever remain some dumb media.
> 
> Cindy
> 
> =
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/8/08, Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> From: Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
> To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"
> 
> Date: Saturday, 9 August, 2008, 8:05 PM
> 
> Just wondering ... all these talks. Where are the

Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health-knowledge

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

No matter how we put it/them, we are still talking about information 
management, or  information divide etc. 

Technology is a tool. Giving someone a tool don't mean their knowledge, needs 
and wants would improve if there is no support system to catch them. Take the 
case of One-Laptop-per-child. Would have been more successful if more thought 
were given how to deploy and manage both technological and social network 
first, rather than the lap-top. 

I was taken aback and alarmed when the question of what has 
human-social-networking to do with digital divide was raised. To me it is 
rather scary.  One would assume the medical profession would be without work if 
there is no human being (or animals) to deal with, and therefore there would 
not be any problem with digital divide or divide of any kind in their sphere of 
influence.  

It is rather sad to think that many of us put so much importance on technology. 
Perhaps that is the root of the problem of digital divide. We take little time, 
little importance, little understanding, little care etc. etc. to first 
understand the behaviour of human beings. Technology is the most simple part to 
deal with. 

Cindy



--- On Mon, 11/8/08, tom abeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: tom abeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health-knowledge
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Monday, 11 August, 2008, 4:16 PM

Dave Roop's response is interesting and one that seems very important

One of the critical pieces that is coming to light with the growing use of the
internet is the term, social networking both in brick and click space
industry with its intranets has found much that might be helpful here-
primarily how information moves. Information "wants to be free to
move" but it isn't free to move no matter
how connected people are. There are networks and overlapping and interconnected
networks with gatekeepers and filters. Much of this has to do with the social
aspects. Not everyone chooses to
be linked to everyone and linked doesn't mean free flow- not necessarily
malicious in intent.

The development community has an unstated assumption, especially in the idea of
closing the digital divide that such issue do not exist, are minor or will
eventually disappear with time and connectivity.
I am not sure the difference between developed and developing countries or the
subject matter of the network neutralizes the issues

thoughts?

tom

tom abeles

> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:16:59 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net
> Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
> 
> Dear All,
> Let me share some my first hand experience in the area of “digital
divide” / telemedicine/ Health management” etc. Let us take two different
scenarios to make it global.
>  
> Scenario I - Underdeveloped countries
>  
> 
> Genesis of all problems is “economic divide” and not the “technology
or digital divide”. I have seen how poverty dictates “do’s &
don’ts’”. 
> Second important factor is “knowledge divide” as in some cases (of
course rare) I have seen even with affluent suffers due to lack of knowledge.
> If we tailor use of any technology for eradication of poverty and
knowledge divide in any community, health index will automatically improve as
by-product. People with no mean for square meal have their health issues as the
last priority.
>  
> Scenario II – Developed countries
>  
> Knowledge divide exists even in the countries like United States and
attempts to narrow such divides help the society at large. But unfortunately in
many cases there are complications as – “information can not be converted
into knowledge” without proper background to understand that information.
First word is creating a new category of people who belong to this category and
needless to say that – this will have negative impact on the overall social
management fabric.
>  
> The learning derived are-
> 1.   Manage digital divide for improving economic standing first
followed by knowledge management. Jumping to health management, by passing these
two crucial factors would not help in any society (first / or third world).
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R K Dave, SMIEEE
> Strategist & Expert (ICT & Disaster Management)
> www.AdvisorICT.com
>  
> 
> --- On Sun, 8/10/08, David Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> From: David Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health
> To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 5:17 PM
> 
> This is an interesting discussion, though it may be an easier one to have
as a
> set of narrower questions on a web discussion.
> 
> I agree that the use of data, both qualitative and quantitative, would be
> ultimately vital to determining impact and perhaps not enough as been
done. Just
> as important is defining the scope of questions. I see a number of arenas
for
> this. "Human health" is also broad. I leave that to 

Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Alan (Paperless),

Well said ...things that we have argued the first round when OLPC first came to 
the scene.

Below I quote what you wrote: 
>> Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has
overlooked this crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver
contents...not the hardware it is the software.<<  apart from software/content, 
even when there is adequate telco infractures in placed, you still need 
'people' to teach, to train, to maintain, to support the whole shebang of 
e-learning, BUT 

what is most annoying to me is, we seems to think, 'if we give them all they 
need, learning would occurred. There are generally a few different groups of 
learners, in my eyes. There are those that do not need any prompting, pushing 
and would find their own way to learn anyway, then there are some that for 
whatever reasons would need lots of prodding, pulling, pushing before learning 
occurred, and of course there are some that would need helping to get the balls 
rolling ... 

Last, we musn't forget. This list is for the lucky people such as you and me 
that can afford a PC, fast speed online internet, well educated and some even 
educators that know what learning is all about, and reasonable well to do that 
do not have to decide where should THAT one dollar should do ... food or phone 
bill ... so, we are armchair critics. We sit comfortably (that include me), and 
put in our few cents worth of opinons. Well, if we REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want 
to know what it is like to be disadvantage, perhaps we should ask the 
disadvantage to tell us what it is like in their world. 

We musn't forget either to ask, where the money shold come from to buy JUST the 
PC ALONE? I am not even talking about putting in, and supporting the network. 
Well, there are only so much money to go around. IF a country has to buy one 
million PC for 100 a piece (If I remembered correctly, the deal is, a country 
MUST buy minimum ONE million pieces of PC), what would happen to their budget 
for other needs? So, perhaps we stop for one moment and WONDER a little bit who 
is getting rich? 

So, OLPC for the rich and advanced world such as NY, is VERY different from 
OLPC for somewhere in India, or an African country. Very different. I am sure 
there are many success stories, but perhaps we should stop another moment to 
consider IF do differently such as instead of OLPC why not set up telecenters? 
What would be the cost different? MOST of all think about the benefits of 
social networking (not the online kind), the benefits of f2f etc. etc. etc. 

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sun, 21/9/08, Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Sunday, 21 September, 2008, 7:15 PM

While I do agree the increasing power of the mobile technology, and it would
change many aspects of how learning would take place eventually in the world as
price drops.
 
The reality today is not so simple. Many in the underserved or rural areas
hardly have anything close to even old computers not to mention about having
access to latest models of mobiles. 
 
Moreover, the need is now not the future. Today we have to look what is
suitable for the little funds that these developing countries to which OLPC is
addressed at.
 
First we teach them how to walk before we teach them how to run.  Get first a
practical solution and to us a practical solution. A mobile , its small size
actually is not suitable for general education although it would be good for
communications.. the other aspects of closing the digital divides. 
 
Ours we are talking about bring affordable education to the rural poor who has
nothing.
Even free reburbished old computers will do wonders.. provided of course the
contents can be made available without the cost of broadband or even long
download times of dialups.
 
Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has overlooked this
crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver contents...not the hardware it is the
software.
 
Until such is addressed, the digital divides we talked about will remain. It is
not the hardware, it is the software. 
 
In Malaysia, we have companies and govt spending millions upon millions , and
our annual budget exceeds RM31 billion(nearly US1 billion) per year in
education for a small nation of only 27 million with good infrastructures), yet
we hardly see any headway in ICT in mass education succeeding.  

We have major public listed companies undertaking bouth CD and online flash
educational programs with highly trained experts.. .all gone bust in double
quick time. Not one .. two went belly ups trying to us flash based online
systems .. in Malaysia a quite well advanced nation in ICT.  
 
Now if we are to bring these kind of solutions to poor African countries...
gosh how they can ever succeed I would really wonder.  Using mobile? How can
t

Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

what is the different between telecenters and 'community computers'? If they 
are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep to the same terms? 

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sat, 20/9/08, Caroline Meeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Caroline Meeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Saturday, 20 September, 2008, 8:48 PM

Hi Sarah,

I like "community computers".   That is a good way to describe what
I'm
trying to do with School Key.  I want to make the computers that already
exist in the community age-appropriate and personalized learning
environments for the students in the communities.

I'm hoping with School Key, I can create a community computing system that
provides value to students even if the computer they are using happens not
be on the internet or there are bandwidth problems.  I also want to
automatically backup the students' files.  This is probably a school
specific issue.

Thanks!
Caroline

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Sarah Blackmun-Eskow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> A more practical approach is "community computers" (in contrast
to
> "personal
> computers") available in a school, church, community center, etc.,
where
> everyone in the village can have access. It is much more reasonable to
> provide internet connection for one such community computing center than
> for
> personal laptops.
>
> A good model is a thin client/server model, in which one powerful server
> would serve programs and internet access to many thin clients with limited
> computing and storage capacity. (Community users would have their own pen
> drives for storing their own files.)
>
> We (Pangaea Network) are testing this idea in Ghana in Asante Akim
> district.
>
>
> Sarah Blackmun-Eskow
> President, The Pangaea Network
> 290 North Fairview Avenue
> Goleta CA 93117
> 805-692-6998
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.pangaeanetwork.org
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paperless
> Homework
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:02 AM
> To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
> Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
>
> Dear Caroline,
>
> What you are doing is exactly what our project is about.
>
> We believe that a practical approach should be the way rather than fancy
> ideas about One laptop per child for the developing countries. It
isn't
> practical even in developed countries much less developing countries.
>
> It is in this direction that we have created a simple tool to create small
> sized tutorials and exercises to enable such multimeda contents to be
saved
> in diskettes or Pen drives. Yes even diskettes can accommodate multimedia
> contents. So in the end the entire extra financial need of the students
> would be digitally connected would be the cost of a pen drive.
> It can contain the entire contents for the whole life of the students
> that is our aim.
>
> Computers, students would know how to get access to for those students
> without computers.
>
> The good thing about OLPC project is the development of low cost units and
> its low power needs with longer hours of operation. To use OLPC for each
> child in developing countries... it would never come to pass.
>
> An interesting article about our concept of Practical tech not high tech
> www.paperlesshomework.com/surf
>
> Currently we have tremendous response to our free for schools initiative
in
> Malaysia. We would extend it to other developing countries including
China,
> India and Indonesia which practically form nearly half the world's
> population. If we succeed here , our job is done.
>
> See videos of our contents here www.paperlesshomework.ning.com/video
>
> Want to really close the digital divide? Join us. It is the ONLY such
> project in the world.
>
> Regards
> Alan Foo
> www.paperlesshomework.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.paperlesshomework.com
> An elearning solution for rural areas where online/CDs cannot reach.
>
> Get the latest happenings through paperlesshomework tool bar
> www.paperlesshomework.communitytoolbars.com
>
> --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Caroline Meeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: Caroline Meeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
> To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"
> 
> Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:20 AM
>
> Thank you all for this interesting discussion.
>
> As someone embarking on a project similar to OLPC I'm interested in
what
> advice you have on effective and ethical marketing and corporate
> relationships.
>
> School Key is "One KeyFob per Child".  Basically, we question
that the best
> way for children to have ubiquitous access to computers is to have them
> carry laptops with them.  Even if they did cost $100 in a city like Boston
> kids are not safe carrying home computers.  Instead we propose to give
each
> student a 1GB USB Key (currently $5 at Target, probably closer to $1 or $2
>

Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

We always think about, or are prod to think and look about, cost in terms of 
cash. We think in the 'accounting' way with proper columns, debits and credits, 
balance sheet. What we do not seems to want to know is the cost and benefits of 
the 'soft kinds' such as f2f social get together, knowledge sharing when people 
get the chance to see smiles and nodding in others, the old, old matter of 
getting knowledge out in REAL STORY telling etc. etc. 

Sometime it almost makes me laugh when I think about how we ooh and aah about 
the benefits of water-cooler/coffee machine at a office, or how to share 
knowledge by story telling. I laugh because these WERE the old ways we use to 
share knowledge that WE destroyed by letting technologies control us.  Well, if 
we find a place such as a local town-hall, a school library and put in a few 
computers there and let the people share (a tele-center) what in effect is we 
are keeping the traditional way of life of most small villages ... a market 
place, a watering-hole, a place to mingle ... water-cooler effects flows 
naturally, stories would be told, knowledge sharing occurs ... .

Imagine we give to each child in the village a OLPC. What DO we give them, how 
much what we give would benefits them, AND what are we taking away, and what 
are we destroying? I am not even going to go deep into what other problems are 
we creating. Perhaps we should stop for another moment to really understand 
what we are doing to our societies, to reflect what the internet technologies 
is doing to our own life? So do we really want to promote the same ?? 

I am not anti-technology, but I am concern many of us allow technologies to 
control us. We created the digital divide. Like drug addits, we want newer and 
newer technologies to fix our craves. Most of all, should we push our additions 
to others (the unfortunate souls, we think!)  in the name of closing the 
digital divide gaps? 

Cindy





=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sun, 21/9/08, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Cindy Lemcke-Hoong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Sunday, 21 September, 2008, 11:04 PM

Hello Alan (Paperless),

Well said ...things that we have argued the first round when OLPC first came to
the scene.

Below I quote what you wrote: 
>> Today, practically everyone from individuals to UNESCO etc has
overlooked this crucial factor. ... the ability to deliver
contents...not the hardware it is the software.<<  apart from
software/content, even when there is adequate telco infractures in placed, you
still need 'people' to teach, to train, to maintain, to support the
whole shebang of e-learning, BUT 

what is most annoying to me is, we seems to think, 'if we give them all
they need, learning would occurred. There are generally a few different groups
of learners, in my eyes. There are those that do not need any prompting, pushing
and would find their own way to learn anyway, then there are some that for
whatever reasons would need lots of prodding, pulling, pushing before learning
occurred, and of course there are some that would need helping to get the balls
rolling ... 

Last, we musn't forget. This list is for the lucky people such as you and
me that can afford a PC, fast speed online internet, well educated and some even
educators that know what learning is all about, and reasonable well to do that
do not have to decide where should THAT one dollar should do ... food or phone
bill ... so, we are armchair critics. We sit comfortably (that include me), and
put in our few cents worth of opinons. Well, if we REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want
to know what it is like to be disadvantage, perhaps we should ask the
disadvantage to tell us what it is like in their world. 

We musn't forget either to ask, where the money shold come from to buy JUST
the PC ALONE? I am not even talking about putting in, and supporting the
network. Well, there are only so much money to go around. IF a country has to
buy one million PC for 100 a piece (If I remembered correctly, the deal is, a
country MUST buy minimum ONE million pieces of PC), what would happen to their
budget for other needs? So, perhaps we stop for one moment and WONDER a little
bit who is getting rich? 

So, OLPC for the rich and advanced world such as NY, is VERY different from
OLPC for somewhere in India, or an African country. Very different. I am sure
there are many success stories, but perhaps we should stop another moment to
consider IF do differently such as instead of OLPC why not set up telecenters?
What would be the cost different? MOST of all think about the benefits of social
networking (not the online kind), the benefits of f2f etc. etc. etc. 

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sun, 21/9/08, Paperless Homework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
From: Paperless 

Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Joel,

I think you misunderstood me. I was only asking for clarifications of the 
differences between the term 'community computers' vs. telecenters. If you read 
any of my previous posts you would understand that I am not supporter of OLPC.

To my understanding 'community computers' is no different than telecenters. 
Just another new terms that says the same thing. 

Telecenter has been in existence for more than 20 years and there are many well 
researched documents written on telecenter. Why reinventing the wheels?

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Mon, 22/9/08, Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] PhD research on OLPC
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Monday, 22 September, 2008, 5:55 AM

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what is the different between telecenters and 'community
computers'? If they are the same, for search purpose, perhaps we could keep
to the same terms?
> Cindy

In the 3rd world countries, a PC is generally too expensive for
individual ownership (hence the relevance of the OLPC). The cost is
not just the purchase price of the HW, but must include the SW costs,
and the user's time to learn and use the technology.

It is simply that an OLPC is so "out-of-context" in the lives of the
average citizen. It is our belief that this is because too little
effort is placed in providing appropriate applications / solutions at
the 3rd world point-of-view.

The telecenter OTOH MUST contextualize at the community level. Can the
same be said for the OLPC?

J Galgana
BayangPinoy Organization, Inc.
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Re: [DDN] The future of DDN

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Wiki is a good idea ... but I still think mailing list is a lot more VISIBLE. I 
have clean forgotten about THE Future of DDN until this mail. 

Yes. I agree DDN should look into methods of payment. 

Perhaps some thoughts on the following two items?
1) there should be perhaps free memberships for students for example. 

2) As some of us at DDN have mentioned again and again during the debate on 
$100 for a One-child-per-laptop etc. etc. ... perhaps we might want to look at 
what is $100 to some in certain part of the world?

Cindy

=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Sat, 11/10/08, Claude Almansi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Claude Almansi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Saturday, 11 October, 2008, 11:43 AM

Hi All,

I am answering on the mailing-list (with Bcc to Adam Clare and Taran
Rampersad) rather than on the wiki because today I have a problem with
logging in at the wiki (1).

About:

"...To make the site easier to manage we propose the removal of the
communities functionality and discussion boards of DDN and replacing
the categorization system with tagging.
DDN's strength lies in the active mailing list and TIG realizes that
the mailing list isn't perfect. In an ideal setup the mailing list
will also be accessed online and have greater stability.
Online communities encourage discussions between users in more than
one place, right now that discussion happens on the mailing list for
DDN and less so on the website. To encourage more discussions we would
like to implement commenting on most DDN content. ..."
(in )

- Removal ot the communities and discussion boards: I agree; at first,
each community had its own discussion board, but this stopped (around
2005?), which meant that there could be no diaogue within the
communities. Anyway, even with that first set-up, there was little
dialogue in community discussion boards and in discussion boards in
general.

- Mailing list: the archive is actually accessible online, but I'm not
sure it's really necessary to be able to post to it from the web.
However, until August 2006,  the mailing-list archive had an RSS feed
through which the last messages were automatically shown bottom right
of the site in the "Featured RSS feeds"  (2). That was a useful
feature: would it be possible to have it again? For instance by using
a yahoo or a google discussion list that have RSS feeds?

- Making content taggable and discussable: great idea but in this
case, would it not be simpler and cheaper to move rather than revamp?
I'm thinking of Ning.com, where Steve Hargadon set up
. And then he convinced the Ning
administrators to make a special, ad-less, free offer for educators
and provide a network for them, http://education.ning.com/ . One
problem might be back-ups, though.


Re Taran Rampersad's addition to
 :
"The Membership level is certainly worthwhile and is one that shows
promise, since DDN membership probably would be tax deductible, though
that needs to be clarified. While that is sufficient given enough
buy-in from the community, I'd also suggest continued monetization of
content through Google Ads (such as those found on email list
archives) and Amazon advertising. Further comments for funding would
probably require a prerequisite of what TIG has already tried to do
such that we can avoid repeating things"
I agree. Moreover, how could the payments be made? Some members may
not have a credit card.

Best

Claude Almansi


(1) Yesterday evening I was automatically logged in at the
http://wiki.digitaldivide.net wiki, presumably because I was logged in
at the www.digitaldivide.net main site, and even able to add some
things on the resource page of the wiki.  Today I am logged in at the
main site, but not at the wiki.
The URL of the log-in link at the top right of the wiki pages is

which a) is on the main site where I am already logged in; b) has a
message that says: "Error, you must login to access this page. "; c)
nevertheless also has  login ID and password boxes, but they don't
work.
If I try to edit a page, say by opening
http://wiki.digitaldivide.net/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit,
the page says "Login required to edit", with a link to the "Log
in /
create account"

page, which a) doesn't have a create account option; b) refuses my
main site login data

(2) The last recorded instance (Aug. 4, 2006) of the set-up with
"Featured RSS feed"  at the Internet Archive is
).

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 9:07 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi DDN members!
>
>

Re: [DDN] The future of DDN

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Tom, 

First of all I did not mention about TAX Deductible. Perhaps from another 
person??

I think we have to understand who are the readers of DDN, and what would be our 
'dreams and expectations' and reaching out to whom. $100 to some is petty cash, 
but to many is food for a family for many, many, many days. So, where do we 
want to go?  Whom do we want to serve? 

We might also want to look at what is/are the added value of DDN to us. IS DDN 
still serve its purpose to the community as it was let's say 5 years ago? 
Should DDN survive on its own or should it be part of something bigger and 
therefore can be part of the umbrella? 

DDN was funded and had a 'manager'. To me, nothing sadder is to see a half-dead 
community. And that is what DDN is right now. And the root of the problem is 
DDN does not have a full-time, paid person to manage it, to promote it, to 
drive it ... My question is, even if we charged fees, what would be the 
structure of DDN? Would the fees be used to cover a paid person? What is the 
purpose of DDN? What is the target audience of DDN? What is the added value of 
DDN to this community and to the rest of the world? If we are going to collect 
fees, DDN has to be in a VERY different shape, it has to be managed 
professionally and have a focus/purpose of why it should be active at the 
minimum.

These are just some of my thoughts. And I hope this posting would kick up some 
dust

Cindy











=



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Tue, 28/10/08, tom abeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: tom abeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008, 11:33 PM

Hi Cindy

First, on charging a ¨fee¨. Tax Deductable? As my farmer brother-in-law says
¨deductable against what?

Second, given networking in the web 2.0 world with U-Tube, Twitter, Linkedin,
Wiki´s and so many other social networks, what do we get for a fee that this
list and other tagged, networked, distributed and . . . systems don´t give for
free. Fees are the equivalent of the Great Wall that walls information out and
not in. It creates filters that are normally made by those on the net who choose
how to access and limit access to the one non-leveragable commodity, TIME. And
that is the individual´s responsibility.

thoughts?

tom

tom abeles

> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:18:12 +
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net
> Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
> 
> Wiki is a good idea ... but I still think mailing list is a lot more
VISIBLE. I have clean forgotten about THE Future of DDN until this mail. 
> 
> Yes. I agree DDN should look into methods of payment. 
> 
> Perhaps some thoughts on the following two items?
> 1) there should be perhaps free memberships for students for example. 
> 
> 2) As some of us at DDN have mentioned again and again during the debate
on $100 for a One-child-per-laptop etc. etc. ... perhaps we might want to look
at what is $100 to some in certain part of the world?
> 
> Cindy
> 
> =
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --- On Sat, 11/10/08, Claude Almansi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> From: Claude Almansi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
> To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"

> Date: Saturday, 11 October, 2008, 11:43 AM
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am answering on the mailing-list (with Bcc to Adam Clare and Taran
> Rampersad) rather than on the wiki because today I have a problem with
> logging in at the wiki (1).
> 
> About:
> 
> "...To make the site easier to manage we propose the removal of the
> communities functionality and discussion boards of DDN and replacing
> the categorization system with tagging.
> DDN's strength lies in the active mailing list and TIG realizes that
> the mailing list isn't perfect. In an ideal setup the mailing list
> will also be accessed online and have greater stability.
> Online communities encourage discussions between users in more than
> one place, right now that discussion happens on the mailing list for
> DDN and less so on the website. To encourage more discussions we would
> like to implement commenting on most DDN content. ..."
> (in
)
> 
> - Removal ot the communities and discussion boards: I agree; at first,
> each community had its own discussion board, but this stopped (around
> 2005?), which meant that there could be no diaogue within the
> communities. Anyway, even with that first set-up, there was little
> dialogue in community discussion boards and in discussion boards in
> general.
> 
> - Mailing list: the archive is actually accessible online, but I'm not
> sure it's really necessary to be able to post to it from the web.
> However, until August 2006,  the mailing-list archive had an RSS feed
> through which the last messages were automatically shown bottom right
> of the site in the "Featured RSS feeds"  (2

Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

First of all can someone, such as Andy Carvin, come up with a 
to-do/qualifications/expectation etc. list for moderator? Without that, some 
qualified persons might shy away from volunteering.

Cindy

=



cindyho...@gmail.com

--- On Tue, 30/12/08, Andy Carvin  wrote:
From: Andy Carvin 
Subject: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Tuesday, 30 December, 2008, 6:34 PM

Hi Tom,

The problem is that there isn't an official moderator at the moment.
Technically I'm not supposed to be moderating the list anymore because I
work for NPR News and I can't be involved directly in policy discussions,
but the moderating from TakingITGlobal sometimes runs behind. I would suggest
that DDN members try to find three or four people who could share the moderating
duties, and I'm sure the TIG folks would be happy to get them set up. Either
way, I really shouldn't be doing it as long as I work for NPR.


ac


Andy Carvin
andycarvin at yahoo  com
www.andycarvin.com
www.pbs.org/learningnow




- Original Message 
From: tom abeles 
To: digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:20:20 PM
Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN


hmm, how long between submission and "approval" as in this just
released batch of postings.

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Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Calude,

I agreed with you ... I have just sent another email requesting some 
to-do/expectations list 

Come to the worse, I can give some of my time to baby-site DDN. BUT not alone.

Cindy

=



cindyho...@gmail.com

--- On Tue, 30/12/08, Claude Almansi  wrote:
From: Claude Almansi 
Subject: Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Tuesday, 30 December, 2008, 10:54 PM

I've co-moderated 3 Italian mailing-lists a couple of years ago. So
I'd volunteer to co-moderate this DDN list - preferably not alone,
especially at first, until I get the hang of issues possibly involved.

DDN counts. The issues may have evolved, but they have not gone away.

Best

Claude



On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Andy Carvin 
wrote:
> Does the DDN website (www.digitaldivide.net) and TakingITGlobal not count,
Deborah?
>
>  
> Andy Carvin
> andycarvin at yahoo  com
> www.andycarvin.com
> www.pbs.org/learningnow
> 
>
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Deborah Phelan 
> To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group

> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of
DDN)
>
> haven't participated in this group for some time ... but have an
alternative
> suggestion.  a previous email suggested incorporating the group into
> something larger  I've been working as a volunteer editor at
> WiserEarth,
> an online database and community funded by Paul Hawken (Blessed Unrest)
>
> serves the people who are transforming the world. It is a community
> directory and networking forum that maps and connects non-governmental
> organizations (NGOs), businesses, governments, and individuals addressing
> the central issues of our day: climate change, poverty, the environment,
> peace, water, hunger, social justice, conservation,
>
> 110,422 Organizations 
> 19,979 People 
> 1,012 Groups 
> 4,933 Resources 
>
> The website, which is primarily run by volunteers, has struggled for some
> time to develop cohesion but over the past few months has really picked up
> the pace and is now beginning to tackle an interface which was daunting
...
>
> We have now widdled down the Areas of Focus into about 10 and editors are
> being selected to oversee and manage content in each assigned AofF.
>
> The reason I suggest this for DDN is that one area ICT Afficianados
> /group/ICT  has already been
somewhat
> built out  DDN could not only use this page as a homebase to carry on
> discusions but also to highlight organizations, connect with other
> organizations, and, with the expertise behind you, provide content to
> further develop the AofF.
>
> Just an idea as I said I've been 'lingering' and checking
back in to WE
> for over a year now and in the past month have been very excited about the
> directed movement and growing participation here.
>
> Members of DDN could receive updates everytime something new is added to
> this listing by adding it to a 'watchlist' ...
>
> Deborah
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Andy Carvin 
wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> The problem is that there isn't an official moderator at the
moment.
>> Technically I'm not supposed to be moderating the list anymore
because I
>> work for NPR News and I can't be involved directly in policy
discussions,
>> but the moderating from TakingITGlobal sometimes runs behind. I would
>> suggest that DDN members try to find three or four people who could
share
>> the moderating duties, and I'm sure the TIG folks would be happy
to get them
>> set up. Either way, I really shouldn't be doing it as long as I
work for
>> NPR.
>>
>>
>> ac
>>
>> 
>> Andy Carvin
>> andycarvin at yahoo  com
>> www.andycarvin.com
>> www.pbs.org/learningnow
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Any thought of moving DDN to Moodle? I think Moodle provides a centralized 
platform and better features than the email listing. It provides functions 
where we can build library related to DDN issues, members can conduct training, 
discussions etc. all within one location. 

The 'meaning' of DDN has changed since the beginning of DDN. What I see the 
future of DDN should go beyond discussions. 

Cindy

=



cindyho...@gmail.com

--- On Wed, 31/12/08, Claude Almansi  wrote:
From: Claude Almansi 
Subject: Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Wednesday, 31 December, 2008, 11:13 AM

Thanks for your constructive personal opinion, Taran: it is all the
more valuable because of your experience as admin. I've only been a
user - well, theoretically managing some on-site discussions for a
while before they got scrapped, but their were very few posts there.
Between your lines:

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Taran Rampersad
 wrote:
> Personal opinion, meant constructively:
>
> DigitalDivide.net used to count, I think. I've gone through with admin
> powers and removed spam blog postings, deleted spam users, and so forth.
> I'm not sure exactly when that problem started - probably along the
> timeline that all the spam comments on the blogs started showing up. The
> explanation for how all of that happened and was handled is a bit
> sketchy, so it's difficult to say.

As far as I remember, there was a chonological coincidence between the
rise of spam comments to blog entries and the big hacking of the
on-site discussion boards during the 2nd WSIS in 2005. Spammers
started using redirecting scripts in their profiles and in their
comments. So script use was made impossible by admins. Then they
directed to other free-hosted pages where they used those scripts.
Etc.

But already before that, the mailing-list had become the main exchange
tool for DDNers, I think. We'd post to our DDN blogs, but often just
fed them from another blog through RSS.  I've been doing that for a
while, because the DDN blog filter always tells me I'm attempting to
post improper stuff I am unable to identify if I attempt to do it
straight, whereas it doesn't if the same stuff comes through RSS.

>
> The email list is stifled. And honestly, if I did have the time and
> energy to volunteer for moderating this email list, I would. But I have
> moderated email lists and discussion boards before, and they can be very
> problematic. Moderation requires someone whose eyes are on every message
> and who has the time to do things.

Yes, the e-mail list is stifled. But isn't it because people hesitate
to post to it because they don't know when the post will get through?
And couldn't moderation be technically simplified in part by making it
"plain-text no-attachments only" (I'm thinking of Andy's
message about
people attempting to post messages with huge attachments)?

Sure, moderation can be problematic: in the 3 Italian ones I mentioned
before, I was made asst-manager because they had gone haywire in
various ways, yet all based on the fact that the archives were
private. People started to behave more decently after we made them
public - after due consultation none of the trolls paid attention to:
they left and limited themselves to sending the managers personal
insults and threats. The archives of the DDN list are already public,
so this should probably limit trolling. Present and past moderators
could perhaps tell what proportion of trolling and spam they have to
delete?

>
> And all of this gets back to the future of DDN because in my mind there
> is a question that there is a future of DDN.
>
> I think a lot of things are the result of the best intentions. If there
> is to be a future of DDN, we need to move past that and move into what
> the community wants. And while the community has pointed out that
> discussion has been stunted by moderation, the truth is that the wiki
> was presented and remains largely unused.

There may still be a psychological reluctance to use wikis, even among
DDNers. In other socially oriented projects and actions I participate
in, the mailing-list seems to remain the prefered vehicle. Other tools
get used by smaller sub-groups (wikis for the preparation of a
statement then submitted to the list, e.g.). That might be a Digital
Divide issue we might address.
>
> So before we get into technicalities again, as well as human moderation
> of email messages, I suggest that people on the list consider whether
> they want DDN to have a future. That seems to be missing. From there, we
> can decide what that future will be.

Personally, I do. "Web 2.0" - many applications of which I discovered
thanks to DDN mailing list discussions - raised great enthusiasm and
hopes, but it might time for an assessment of their actual
opportunities, uses and implications. Some "Feature Story" articles
(see 

Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

>>Why not just have ddn activities in multiple places? There's no reason why
>>this has to be an either-or discussion. In an ideal world, DDN would be via
>>email, on Moodle, have a wiki, be on Facebook, Twitter, Friendfeed, YouTube,
>>etc...In an ideal world, there would be money available to hire a full time 
>>manager to oversee DDN, but we do not have that kind of luxury. 

Perhaps I am wrong, my assumption is, the more different tools we have, the 
more volunteers DDN would need. Presently we sometime have to wait for days 
before emails are approved for publication, (2 of my emails took about a month 
for approval), I think that would kill Twiter, for example? Another hesitation 
I have is, from my own observation the past 3 years, I think there are only a 
handful of DDN members that are very skill at using different tools. What would 
that mean in finding volunteers? Personally even IF I am willing, I would not 
dare to offere my service. 

=



cindyho...@gmail.com

--- On Fri, 2/1/09, Andy Carvin  wrote:
From: Andy Carvin 
Subject: Re: [DDN] in search of volunteer moderators (was The future of DDN)
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 2:46 PM

Why not just have ddn activities in multiple places? There's no reason why
this has to be an either-or discussion. In an ideal world, DDN would be via
email, on Moodle, have a wiki, be on Facebook, Twitter, Friendfeed, YouTube,
etc...

 
Andy Carvin
andycarvin at yahoo  com
www.andycarvin.com
www.pbs.org/learningnow


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Re: [DDN] The future of DDN

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hi  Claude,

Yes. I think it is sad that the once very active, educative DDN has now reduced 
to nothing but a site filled with Arabic and Chinese advertisements. 

I have always disliked the idea when an online community is left without a 
'manager'. Looking at the DDN site, I feel let down, sadness but most of all I 
feel violated. 

Cindy



--- On Tue, 17/3/09, Claude Almansi  wrote:

From: Claude Almansi 
Subject: Re: [DDN] The future of DDN
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009, 12:06 PM

Hi All

First of all, thanks to the moderators for having accelerated the
moderation process for this list. And apologies for digging up a
message midways in a last-year thread. But I thought again of:

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Taran Rampersad`
 wrote:
> Then, perhaps, we could discuss what you think of the future of DDN
> instead of focusing on the means. From what you have described, you do
> not believe there is the need for a website. Is this true?

when I visited www.digitaldivide.net yesterday and saw the red warning:

"This is a static archive of the Digital Divide Network content. Due
to the extraordinary amount of spam being posted and traffic to the
site from robots overwhelming the site with inappropriate content,
TakingITGlobal can no longer afford to maintain and manage the site
content. However, you are welcome to browse the wealth of content on
the site. Blogs can still be contributed to the site via RSS
syndication, and member profiles are still active!"

... and realised I had no idea when it had appeared, as I had not
visited the site for a long time. And from the apparent lack of
comments (so far as I have checked in my gmail archives) on the list
about this new archive status of the site, I am probably not the only
one.

So in a way, this answers Taran's question: maybe we don't need a
common live site anymore. But it is great to have an archive and a
common feed-reader of the (RSS-imported) members' blogs - even though
it is a bit sad that the change was due to spammers.

Best

Claude
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Re: [DDN] FW: Gates Foundation Announcement (Action Required)

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

All,

I am not sure why I should receive this kind of emails. IF DDN does not really 
want me to participate then PLEASE delete me from the mailing list ... pardon 
me ... GUEST list. 

I suppose that is the end of DDN? 

Cindy



--- On Thu, 16/7/09, postmas...@boxbe.com  wrote:

From: postmas...@boxbe.com 
Subject: Re: [DDN] FW: Gates Foundation Announcement (Action Required)
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Thursday, 16 July, 2009, 5:54 AM


  Hello The Digital Divide Network discussion group,

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Re: [DDN] what is the procedure ?

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

To my understanding is, satellite link is not something you just go out and buy 
one. What you should start with is call the local phone company, any phone 
company, and they will be able to give you some idea whom to call next. Or 
perhaps the phone company can provide the service themselves. 

Even though the cost of telecommunications has gone down tremendously, 
worldwide, getting a satellite link is not going to be cheap. And someone has 
written --- the content of the type of service/education etc. etc. that you 
intend to provide is ACTUALLY cost more and more headaches. 

My strong advice is, not to look at the technology first, BUT first do a good 
research and planning on what kind of contents, service, the communities the 
services needed etc. etc. etc. By looking into these areas first, you might (I 
hope) come upon websites (and the like) that already provide some of the 
services you have in mind. In many cases that would save you so much more 
energy, resources. MOST of all, you do not have to RE-INVENT the wheel!!

Cindy

=



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--- On Wed, 29/7/09, bento dsouza  wrote:

From: bento dsouza 
Subject: Re: [DDN] what is the procedure ?
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:31 AM





dear  Sameera Wijerathna sameera.wijerat...@dialog.lk 

How difficult and how expensive is it to get a satellite link? ben 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Sameera Wijerathna 
Subject: Re: [DDN] Nationwide implementation of ICT in mass Education
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 

Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 4:27 AM


Hi Ben



Your question is not clear to me; anyway getting a satellite link is not 
difficult and not expensive. But getting a dedicated television channel and 
developing contents for that is a really a challenge.



Regards

Sameera.















-Original Message-
From: digitaldivide-boun...@digitaldivide.net 
[mailto:digitaldivide-boun...@digitaldivide.net] On Behalf Of bento dsouza
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 6:03 PM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Nationwide implementation of ICT in mass Education



How do we ngos get access to the satellite links and get a free service for 
school realted  news ? ben







--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Sameera Wijerathna  wrote:





From: Sameera Wijerathna 

Subject: Re: [DDN] Nationwide implementation of ICT in mass Education

To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" 


Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 5:58 AM





Dear Alan/Others







Here in Sri Lanka (South Asia) we have a project called Digital Bridge, in 
which we connect thousand rural schools with the satellite technology. We are 
working with the Ministry of Education (MoE) of Sri Lanka and there is a 
dedicated educational channel which telecast programmes on local school 
syllabus.







We have developed contents in local languages (Sinhalese and Tamil) and schools 
can select the language according to their preference. The high quality, 
educational contents developed by the Ministry of Education, are telecasted by 
Dialog TV (a company of Dialog Telekom) to the rural schools.







Sri Lanka, being a developing country has some infrastructure issues in the 
rural schools. In some schools we do not have qualified teachers to teach 
subjects such as Mathematics, Science, English, etc. Also those schools are 
lacking with library facilities, science lab facilities, computer lab, etc. So 
in our Digital Bridge project we have selected those rural schools and trying 
to deliver quality education using the technology as an attempt the bridge the 
rural digital divide.







Best regards,







Sameera Wijerathna



Co-ordinator CSR (ICT)



Dialog Telekom PLC



3rd Floor, DTV Building,



275, Nawala Road,



Nawala.



Sri Lanka.



Mob:







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