Re: Solution to problems:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 22:05:27 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 3/26/15 2:23 PM, Jake The Baker wrote: But until people stop acting like little children and think seriously about the problems, goals, and solutions then who the heck knows what to do? http://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2015H1 -- Andrei Yes, but you had to pull that up for me. Suppose there was a one stop D shop that had all this stuff available, direct, and immediate? A place that one could get there D fix in many ways. A facebook for D coders, so to speak. All integrated into an IDE proper. (collaboration, development, documentation, core development, etc) My main point about the child remark is that there are very few people here(you, Walter, and a handful of others) actually doing all the heavy lifting and most others(including myself) just talk or do minimal work that ultimately won't lead anywhere(At least any time soon). What good is D if no one uses it? What good is it if all the libraries used have poor or hidden documentation? What good is it if the average noob gets board with it and gives up trying to get it to work? (Not just D, which is, of course, easy to setup if you don't mind doing a little text editing and file manipulation) This is what I imagine. I know it can be done, that is not the issue. This is all standard programming stuff. That is not the point. The point is, to discuss ideas freely so the best solution(Which is usually a combination of all relevant inputs). 1. Get up in the morning 2. Turn on computer. 3. Run the famous D IDE 4. Immediately on loading on presented with the main window(eclipse, visual studio, etc...) 5. Apon loading I notice I have a msg from Joe. Seems Joe found a bug and he thinks maybe I can fix it. 6. I download his project(all handled by the IDE, as it has a build in messenger system). 7. Load up the probject, find the bug, can quickly match the bug to the D internals since it's all there. (can jump to core source code and look at it from any version. All the details of versioning is handed behind the scenes. All I have to do is click on a button to select which version I want to use. 8. So I write small patch quickly(just needed a null check or what ever). I can cross reference the bug's(find out if anyone else has the issue, the discussions involved, all at a drop of a click. 9. I can submit the patch. Internally the IDE handles creating the patch report, all the info(source code, test project, info(line numbers, file names, etc) 10. Now, I'm done with the patching. I want to see what currently has been done already in the last week. I can easily see the whats new and extract relevant info by filtering. (I could filter only on core topics, forum posts, etc) 11. By doing so, I find out that the bug I reported on as similar bugs. I can further investigate that and see how it all relates. I can pin, follow, start, (potentially) merge, etc topics, bugs, patches, etc. 12. I can jump over to Walter's D blog and see what he is up to. 13. I can check out the main Vision which is interactive. (click the year see the topics for that year, see the individual progress(would be great to have a sort of project manager build in). 14. After I have all that fun(With the world of D at my finger tips in the IDE) I can simply open up some project I've been working on. 15. The IDE has complete cross-referencing of documentation built in and very fast. It has full intelligent support. All the standard IDE stuff. 16. The only thing really difference from this point on is that I can easily send people projects(simply send project o Joe, Mike, Other where Joe and Mike are my buddies that have joined my project)... all standard collaboration stuff but quick access. They can even remote view the project if I allow them. 17. e.g., imagine how much easier it would be for people to solve problems if they could easily remote view into a project? etc.. etc.. etc.. 18. Of course, If I wanted to switch to C++ or (D++?) I could do so at the drop of a hat. The IDE should be somewhat language agnostic. (this would allow you to do benchmarks and comparisons easily between different languages... easy Go and D. 19. Not only that, Suppose I have a bug in my code. The IDE can automatically cross-reference the error code with all bug reports, forum posts or whatever. I can show anyone who is working on the patches, allow me to join the discussion or whatever. Similar to Git in many ways. The point is quick. I don't have to open a browser, go to my favorite search engine, sift through hundreds of irrelevant posts just to find that Bob had the same bug and no one is working on it. Might take me 10 mins, or 10 hours, or even 10 months to figure out what is going on or to fix it. The point being, we know that having this so called perfect IDE would solve many problems. The real question is it worth doing? Will having such a thing ultimately bind all the looseness that the D community has into one well oiled
Re: Solution to problems:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 22:33:33 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:28:13 +, Jake The Baker wrote: On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 07:06:50 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. And yet you seem to think D's progress is efficient. sorry, but your mind-reading abilities are weak. i believe that using IDEs greatly weakens telepathy trait. Thanks for proving my point!
Re: Solution to problems:
This is what I imagine. I know it can be done, that is not the issue. This is all standard programming stuff. That is not the point. The point is, to discuss ideas freely so the best solution(Which is usually a combination of all relevant inputs). 1. Get up in the morning 2. Turn on computer. [snip] I haven't used it, so this is a bit of a shot in the dark, but doesn't Visual Studio do a lot of what you're asking? Team Explorer or Team Foundation or something...
Re: Solution to problems:
On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 13:17:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: My main point about the child remark is that there are very few people here(you, Walter, and a handful of others) actually doing all the heavy lifting and most others(including myself) just talk or do minimal work that ultimately won't lead anywhere(At least any time soon). What good is D if no one uses it? A lot of people who aren't doing the heavy lifting or just talk are busy using D. They may not be contributing to the tooling or language or standard library, but they are here because they use the language to get something done.
Re: Solution to problems:
On 3/26/15 2:23 PM, Jake The Baker wrote: But until people stop acting like little children and think seriously about the problems, goals, and solutions then who the heck knows what to do? http://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2015H1 -- Andrei
Re: Solution to problems:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 07:06:50 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. It is efficiency, not progress. Progress is the variation of some metric over time. This metric can be efficiency or anything else.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 07:06:50 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. And yet you seem to think D's progress is efficient. What you determine to be waste is not the absolute almighty law. Only when people discuss honestly the problems and possible solutions can a real overarching plan come together. You are not interested in that because you simply go with the quo. [I generally call this the lemming mentality. Look ahead, don't speak out. Repeat what everyone else says. Always conform, priority one. Sound familiar? I didn't think so!]
Re: Solution to problems:
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 20:05:37 UTC, bitwise wrote: Do *you know what progress is? http://arsdnet.net/this-week-in-d/mar-22.html Author say's it's been a slow week, but you can watch these to get a better feel for the pace of D. Seriously, do you believe that just because Qt, Xcode, VS, etc do not have such features that such features are useless or simply not possible? Maybe you should ask If none of these large well funded companies have set out to create such features, should it really be expected of a free open source project like D? So, although I don't speak for the D community, I suspect that things are the same as in any open source/free project: Step Up or Shut Up. At the last DConf though, I remember it being said that what the D language really needs is corporate backing/funding. Until that happens, I would think it foolhardy to expect any large scale changes in how things work here.. That may be the case. Maybe that is the first step. But until people stop acting like little children and think seriously about the problems, goals, and solutions then who the heck knows what to do?
Re: Solution to problems:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 21:28:14 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 07:06:50 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. And yet you seem to think D's progress is efficient. What you determine to be waste is not the absolute almighty law. Only when people discuss honestly the problems and possible solutions can a real overarching plan come together. You are not interested in that because you simply go with the quo. [I generally call this the lemming mentality. Look ahead, don't speak out. Repeat what everyone else says. Always conform, priority one. Sound familiar? I didn't think so!] I'm glad you decided to step up and begin working on the project you suggested in the OP, I can't wait for you to release it.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:28:13 +, Jake The Baker wrote: On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 07:06:50 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. And yet you seem to think D's progress is efficient. sorry, but your mind-reading abilities are weak. i believe that using IDEs greatly weakens telepathy trait. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Solution to problems:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 03:30:17 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board. Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D. Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved all the programmers problems. and the only problem with that IDE is that nobody uses it. 'cause people comes with their habits, and they used to their existing environments. so that brilliant IDE is a wasted time, 'cause it will never have a big userbase. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Solution to problems:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +, Jake The Baker wrote: Do *you know what progress is? one important part of progress is not wasting time on useless things. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:44:55 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Just curious to know which major open source programming languages support the sort of development environment you are suggesting for their core language/libraries. I just checked Python (the most popular Open Source language of all) and they use ./config make and hg for version control .. seems pretty bare bones to me. https://github.com/dotnet
Re: Solution to problems:
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 04:20:03 UTC, Paul O'Neil wrote: On 03/23/2015 05:34 PM, Jake The Baker wrote: If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php). One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click. 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to watch(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever). 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug. Are there IDE's that do this? As far as I know, Xcode does not, Qt Creator does not. I think you're getting a lot of push back because these ideas don't seem reasonable, especially in comparison to the infrastructure of other large-ish open source projects. And this is exactly why things won't change. There was one time we didn't have a space shuttle. There was a lot of people saying the world was flat, At some point the computer you are working on was just a concept that many people said couldn't be done. Do *you know what progress is? Seriously, do you believe that just because Qt, Xcode, VS, etc do not have such features that such features are useless or simply not possible? Because that is what you are effectively saying with your argument. This is not a BW game. It is Gray. The question isn't if these features exist already or should be implemented. We know they will improve performance and enhance collaboration. The question is how much will it matter. But if you think it's BW then we can't ever get to that question and nothing will ever change. (Because you are either a black or a white. (avoids change or embraces it)) If you want to go with the BW game then we can't even begin to solve the problem because there is no open discussion that will lead to true solutions. (I only posted stuff that is suppose to be a jumping off point) The Catholic Church has that mentality... as do most Catholics(not a coincidence). Thousands of years of keeping progress to a minimum will do that. (I'm not getting into a religious discussion here. This is not bashing Catholics. It is simply a well known fact that most(all?) modern religions are anti-technological-progress because when you are dealing with the supernatural it's kinda a moot point)
Re: Solution to problems:
Do *you know what progress is? http://arsdnet.net/this-week-in-d/mar-22.html Author say's it's been a slow week, but you can watch these to get a better feel for the pace of D. Seriously, do you believe that just because Qt, Xcode, VS, etc do not have such features that such features are useless or simply not possible? Maybe you should ask If none of these large well funded companies have set out to create such features, should it really be expected of a free open source project like D? So, although I don't speak for the D community, I suspect that things are the same as in any open source/free project: Step Up or Shut Up. At the last DConf though, I remember it being said that what the D language really needs is corporate backing/funding. Until that happens, I would think it foolhardy to expect any large scale changes in how things work here..
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Digger can build and install any D version in combination with any GitHub fork or pull request: https://github.com/CyberShadow/Digger It even has a web interface, if you're allergic to command lines.
Re: Solution to problems:
On 03/23/2015 08:18 PM, ketmar wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:34:08 +, Jake The Baker wrote: I don't want to spend 30mins to an hour to download the latest version, compile it if I have to, make sure all the configuration stuff is correct, create a setup program... just to find out there is a bug in the latest version at the end. there is a brilliant invention here that helps with exactly this. it is called scripting. i spent, you know, something like a hour more than year ago, and now i can build DMD in 2 minutes (this is the limit of my box, it can't compile code faster than that), update it in less than a minute (this is limited by internet connection) and so on. Already exists: https://github.com/jacob-carlborg/dvm $ dvm install 2.066.1 $ dvm install 2.067.0-b2 $ dvm use 2.066.1 $ dmd | grep DMD DMD64 D Compiler v2.066.1 $ dvm use 2.067.0-b2 $ dmd | grep DMD DMD64 D Compiler v2.067.0-b2 there is life beyond IDEs. no, really, i'm not joking! Indeed! After all, a programmer's whole job is to write commands and automate tasks anyway.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:49:56 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for. Again, the point is that one can't do it. We know it can be done. It's about efficiency. You are not accumulating the man hours it takes over the total work time(the unexpected stuff that can take days to fix. Days most people are not willing to even risk wasting if it is possible). If all this stuff was properly integrated into an ide like work space specifically tailored to D development, then I'm sure D would get more bites than it is. Obviously it isn't a simple undertaking. Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board. Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D. Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved all the programmers problems. Ok, Would that year be worth the wasted time on the IDE considering what it can accomplish in the next 10+ years? Is the investment worth it? This is an invest 10k$ and get 1M$ back type of scheme. But in this case if done right it will actually happen. (e.g., invest in the stock market on logical investments vs giving your money to Burt Bernie's Investment Firm. I just see a bunch of wasted arguments about things on this forum. If all that energy was captured and harnessed into creating something that would increase productivity then it will do so exponentially. (30 people spend 1 year to create something that potentially millions will use every day for the next 10+ years. That's a 33,000 ROI... who would pass that up?) Of course, maybe we can just use 10 people and about 3 months to get a good approximation? Maybe eclipse could be developed to do the job? Maybe Visual D could be extended to include built in bug tracking, repository and versioning issues, collaboration, etc? These questions can't be answered until people think there is a problem. Maybe the real solution is just to scrap D and get behind Go. Who knows until people honestly look at the underlying problems that are preventing D from becoming mainstream(time is and obvious one, but the more reason to get it done ASAP before we all end up in the old folks home). But I guess I digress! Some people just like to dig.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: In 10 more years I doubt Andrei or Walter will have as much energy to do all the work that they are doing... Better build the infrastructure now while there is time. Make an atom plugin. The one stop shop for all things D.
Re: Solution to problems:
You have never tried compiling Chromium have you.. Dmd, druntime and phobos do not compare in complexity to that. And that's with Google backing it.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 03:30:19 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:49:56 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for. Again, the point is that one can't do it. We know it can be done. It's about efficiency. You are not accumulating the man hours it takes over the total work time(the unexpected stuff that can take days to fix. Days most people are not willing to even risk wasting if it is possible). If all this stuff was properly integrated into an ide like work space specifically tailored to D development, then I'm sure D would get more bites than it is. Obviously it isn't a simple undertaking. Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board. Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D. Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved all the programmers problems. Ok, Would that year be worth the wasted time on the IDE considering what it can accomplish in the next 10+ years? Is the investment worth it? This is an invest 10k$ and get 1M$ back type of scheme. But in this case if done right it will actually happen. (e.g., invest in the stock market on logical investments vs giving your money to Burt Bernie's Investment Firm. I just see a bunch of wasted arguments about things on this forum. If all that energy was captured and harnessed into creating something that would increase productivity then it will do so exponentially. (30 people spend 1 year to create something that potentially millions will use every day for the next 10+ years. That's a 33,000 ROI... who would pass that up?) Of course, maybe we can just use 10 people and about 3 months to get a good approximation? Maybe eclipse could be developed to do the job? Maybe Visual D could be extended to include built in bug tracking, repository and versioning issues, collaboration, etc? These questions can't be answered until people think there is a problem. Maybe the real solution is just to scrap D and get behind Go. Who knows until people honestly look at the underlying problems that are preventing D from becoming mainstream(time is and obvious one, but the more reason to get it done ASAP before we all end up in the old folks home). But I guess I digress! Some people just like to dig. Here's a shovel to help you on your way... Does an IDE exist for contributing to Go? https://golang.org/doc/install/source Hmm, looks like CLI might be the IDE of go developers. And if you just want to contribute to its ecosystem with Go progs? https://golang.org/doc/code.html Well this looks very similar to D + DUB. In fact D is better because it doesn't dictate any one way. You can choose whatever works for you. I'm using Make, CMake and dub...I'm becoming addicted to DUB for rapid prototyping. If you really want this, you could champion it yourself. I'm sure the D IDE development projects could use as many hands as possible. bye, lobo
Re: Solution to problems:
On 03/23/2015 05:34 PM, Jake The Baker wrote: If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php). One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click. 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to watch(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever). 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug. Are there IDE's that do this? As far as I know, Xcode does not, Qt Creator does not. I think you're getting a lot of push back because these ideas don't seem reasonable, especially in comparison to the infrastructure of other large-ish open source projects. -- Paul O'Neil Github / IRC: todayman
Re: Solution to problems:
You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. 1. Whatever you claim to be easy is irrelevant. Just because X can be done by you. If you want Me to do X it better be easy, else I'm not going to waste my time. Just because you can write 10 lines of script to download and install the latest D is irrelevant. There is much more to it(how long did it take you to figure out how to do that? 10 hours to find the proper post? 40 hours to get everything setup?) It's very easy to pick and choose... but it is irrelevant in this discussion. 2. There is also the collaboration effect that was completely ignored by the posters. I know, many are simply going to say that it's just as easy to open up a browser and get over to Git for the D forums... again, irrelevant. This isn't about what can already be done. We already have a D compiler, people can already download different versions, submit patches, run scripts, create scripts on the comp to manage some of the things, etc... What you guys not seeing is that all this stuff is a huge F@Sf'ing mess from people on the outside. Sure, you think your bedroom is clean... but your idea of clean is vastly different from mine. If you want me to help you clean my room then you better make it easy on me. I'm not going to pick up your dirty underwear no matter how much you tell me it isn't a big deal. The point is, every post has been from the perspective of those already involved in D... That's great! But what good does that do to increase the numbers involved. How many posts have been made in the last 6 months of people saying that like D but don't use it for various issues? (issues that many of you claim are irrelevant) I know that the mentality of We already have bicycles... why do we need this thing you call a 'car'... seems very bulky and you have to put that stuff you call gas in it... I guess I have to buy that from you too?... Yet everyone uses cars... and if cars could fly and were cheap enough, everyone would use those too... even the ones that now say that flying cars are a waste. When you have such problems with your eyes you have myopia. When you have similar problems with seeing that your not the only one that matters, it's called arrogance. With such arrogance, D will not grow. Food For Thought: If Walter and Andrei get vaporized by aliens tomorrow, how many of you will not mind that D will be dead? What about all the hours you guys have put into scripting, figuring out how dub works, and all that mess will be happy at moving into a new direction in life? Well, from my perspective that is what is going to happen if things don't change. D is progressing too slow with too few supporters to get anywhere. If all you hard core D supporters are ok with that, then fine! I have no problem with it then. But since I believe D is the best programming language(even with all its faults), I think it would be a tragedy for it to fade away so quickly. [e.g., Kids learning to program should be able to start with D in a nice environment just like I did with pascal... I remember it compiling so quick and never having any issues] My feeling is that there are just a handful of hard core supporters trying to get D up and running(fixing bugs, expanding language, etc) but I think this is in vain if in 10 years no one uses it. (I guess progress though) Remember, marking is a huge deal in movies[etc], there is a reason for it! And if you had to input some script into your remote just to watch a show on TV, I think you either: A. Would get used to it and think it is natural, easy, and quick and everyone else should stop bitching. B. Buy a TV that was easier to use. We have a gap between A and B and no one is willing to compromise.. But B is the market. This means A is either left to holding it's guns(sort of arrogance) or has to do the compromising. The B group(the ignorant group) simply do not have the desire to jump in with the A's. Time and money matter to some people more than others. Also, having a central Command is always important for productive and efficiency. Do you think NASA could do what it does if it was spread out among hundred different people all handling tasks as they wish. You launch the space shuttle but little Joey, who was suppose to monitor the fly path and check for anomalies was forced to sit at the table and finish his spaghetti by his mother... Now the shuttle is sitting at the bottom of the ocean. It's up to you guys. The only think I can say is: I simply will not contribute to D(even though I think it is the best language) until it becomes worth my time(easier to manage all the stuff that needs to be managed). If you don't want to work with that and accept it then so be it. No big deal for me. I have other things to do(which is why I am not like you). It would be nice if I was the only one like me, but if
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. ... Basically you want something like Nuget in Visual Studio: https://www.nuget.org/ There is something similar for D called dub, but it's not integrated in Visual Studio - http://code.dlang.org/ Also, there is already an enhancement request for that: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11641 on which you can vote.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. clip Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Just curious to know which major open source programming languages support the sort of development environment you are suggesting for their core language/libraries. I just checked Python (the most popular Open Source language of all) and they use ./config make and hg for version control .. seems pretty bare bones to me. While I am sure what you are proposing would be nice, if a massive community like Python doesn't have time/resources to create such a thing, how do you propose a small community like D go about this? Perhaps this is a project you could take on. For the record, for someone to be a developer for a programming language, I don't think expecting them to understand the build system is really an issue. In fact I would feel more comfortable with such people contributing.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php). One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click. 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to watch(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever). 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug. 5. etc. If such an IDE existed so that anyone could simply run it, open a bug and start working without having to go through a massive change(by quick, I mean click of a button), then I think people would be more willing to help. The number one reason I don't contribute is that I don't have the time to dedicate to maintain all the knowledge and software/organization to fit it in my schedule. I suspect that is most everyone excuse too. I don't want to spend 30mins to an hour to download the latest version, compile it if I have to, make sure all the configuration stuff is correct, create a setup program... just to find out there is a bug in the latest version at the end. I'm simply not that dedicated to D. Again, I suspect most people aren't. You have really dedicated people here but not enough to get everything that needs to be done, done. Instead, find out how to leverage all the people that would help if you make it worth their time. It might be slower in the short term but better in the long term. In 10 more years I doubt Andrei or Walter will have as much energy to do all the work that they are doing... Better build the infrastructure now while there is time. Well, you know what? Everybody wants that kind of stuff. Some says I wish there was a way to do that in that way. Another wants for another thing. That's the reason people those do business (or just wealthy), go and pay people to prepare whatever they want and like. Unfortunately, what we have is, like how open source projects are built, many single tools those CAN be connected each other very well, but separate from each other. You know what they say: Linux CAN do that as well. Well, if you go to there, spend time and money, and give effort, then that's true only. You can theme Linux however you want. But, non of them looks as great as OS X.
Solution to problems:
If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php). One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click. 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to watch(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever). 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug. 5. etc. If such an IDE existed so that anyone could simply run it, open a bug and start working without having to go through a massive change(by quick, I mean click of a button), then I think people would be more willing to help. The number one reason I don't contribute is that I don't have the time to dedicate to maintain all the knowledge and software/organization to fit it in my schedule. I suspect that is most everyone excuse too. I don't want to spend 30mins to an hour to download the latest version, compile it if I have to, make sure all the configuration stuff is correct, create a setup program... just to find out there is a bug in the latest version at the end. I'm simply not that dedicated to D. Again, I suspect most people aren't. You have really dedicated people here but not enough to get everything that needs to be done, done. Instead, find out how to leverage all the people that would help if you make it worth their time. It might be slower in the short term but better in the long term. In 10 more years I doubt Andrei or Walter will have as much energy to do all the work that they are doing... Better build the infrastructure now while there is time.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed. 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click Master and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug) 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php). One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click. 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to watch(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever). 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug. 5. etc. If such an IDE existed so that anyone could simply run it, open a bug and start working without having to go through a massive change(by quick, I mean click of a button), then I think people would be more willing to help. The number one reason I don't contribute is that I don't have the time to dedicate to maintain all the knowledge and software/organization to fit it in my schedule. I suspect that is most everyone excuse too. I don't want to spend 30mins to an hour to download the latest version, compile it if I have to, make sure all the configuration stuff is correct, create a setup program... just to find out there is a bug in the latest version at the end. I'm simply not that dedicated to D. Again, I suspect most people aren't. You have really dedicated people here but not enough to get everything that needs to be done, done. Instead, find out how to leverage all the people that would help if you make it worth their time. It might be slower in the short term but better in the long term. In 10 more years I doubt Andrei or Walter will have as much energy to do all the work that they are doing... Better build the infrastructure now while there is time. VCS (Git in this case) and Make are tools of the trade. If a developer cannot use these tools following instructions provided in the Wiki [1] they probably won't have much in the way of useful contributions to Phobos or the compiler. Bye, lobo [1] http://wiki.dlang.org/Pull_Requests
Re: Solution to problems:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:34:08 +, Jake The Baker wrote: I don't want to spend 30mins to an hour to download the latest version, compile it if I have to, make sure all the configuration stuff is correct, create a setup program... just to find out there is a bug in the latest version at the end. there is a brilliant invention here that helps with exactly this. it is called scripting. i spent, you know, something like a hour more than year ago, and now i can build DMD in 2 minutes (this is the limit of my box, it can't compile code faster than that), update it in less than a minute (this is limited by internet connection) and so on. there is life beyond IDEs. no, really, i'm not joking! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Solution to problems:
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: ... most of this is already available in the form of tools(i.e, git, digger, etc) you might want to talk to the dev of deadcode, dlangide, coedit, etc and see if any of them are interested in implementing these directly into their IDEs.
