Re: The New DIP Process
On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 10:44:08 PM MST Brad Roberts via Digitalmars- d-announce wrote: > On 2/28/2024 7:34 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > > On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 7:18:29 PM MST Mike Parker via > > Digitalmars-d-> > > announce wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:24:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis > >> > >> wrote: > >>> I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is > >>> hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that > >>> forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, > >>> or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the > >>> others? > >> > >> They had to be up on NNTP for them to be added to the forums. I > >> just didn't think about the mailing list. I'll contact Brad. > > > > Thanks. > > > > - Jonathan M Davis > > I set them up earlier today. It's entirely possible I missed something > while configuring them as it's been just over 6 years since the last new > group was added, so do shout if anything looks off. I see that the > first two messages already posted made it through, so my confidence is > reasonably high. > > Also worth noting, the news group names are NOT dip.idea and > dip.development. They're actually digitalmars.dip.ideas (note the > plural) and digitalmars.dip.development. > > I made the list names just dip.ideas@ and dip.development@ for brevity. > > Later, > Brad I was able to subscribe. Thanks! - Jonathan M Davis
Re: The New DIP Process
On 2/28/2024 7:34 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 7:18:29 PM MST Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d- announce wrote: On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:24:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the others? They had to be up on NNTP for them to be added to the forums. I just didn't think about the mailing list. I'll contact Brad. Thanks. - Jonathan M Davis I set them up earlier today. It's entirely possible I missed something while configuring them as it's been just over 6 years since the last new group was added, so do shout if anything looks off. I see that the first two messages already posted made it through, so my confidence is reasonably high. Also worth noting, the news group names are NOT dip.idea and dip.development. They're actually digitalmars.dip.ideas (note the plural) and digitalmars.dip.development. I made the list names just dip.ideas@ and dip.development@ for brevity. Later, Brad
Re: The New DIP Process
On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 7:18:29 PM MST Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d- announce wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:24:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis > > wrote: > > I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is > > hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that > > forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, > > or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the > > others? > > They had to be up on NNTP for them to be added to the forums. I > just didn't think about the mailing list. I'll contact Brad. Thanks. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Minor note, D on NASA Goddard software page
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 20:19:30 UTC, Chris Piker wrote: Hi D Just a minor note. My simple bindings for the NASA Common Data Format (CDF) library are listed on the user supplied software page: https://cdf.gsfc.nasa.gov/html/user_supplied_sw.html (scroll down) The library itself is absolutely nothing to crow about. The only useful thing it does is provide real functions for what is largely a C macro based low-level interface, but it's nice to see D mentioned on a NASA site. Maybe someday I'll have time to write a pure D implementation of CDF handling to support threaded web services, but for now simple bindings are a start. So now we can add NASA in the list of organisations that use D, right?... #
Re: The New DIP Process
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:24:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the others? They had to be up on NNTP for them to be added to the forums. I just didn't think about the mailing list. I'll contact Brad.
Re: The New DIP Process
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 08:46:13 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: As it has already had a lot of back and forth from Walter and me with the help of Adam Wilson (very much appreciated!), it's ready for a development forum post. So Mike, once the forum is up, am I in the clear to start at development? https://gist.github.com/rikkimax/1d7cfdb8ed74e9e4efc9ba0208f42e7e Yeah, go for it.
Re: Phobos 3 Development is Open!
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 20:41:46 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: or start a discussion if there is disagreement on how to handle this. Although Github has discussions, why not just discuss them in the `D forum`? This is `the forum`. Github doesn't have the convenience of the `D forum` at all. Why bother with them?
Re: Phobos 3 Development is Open!
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 19:45:53 UTC, Greggor wrote: On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 15:55:52 UTC, Andrew wrote: On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 15:45:06 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote: https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/8925/files#diff-647aa2ce9ebedd6759a2f1c55752f0279de8ae7ba55e3c270bd59e1f8c1a5162R131 Why can't D have its own types? I have to agree with ryuukk_ on this one; it's one thing to maintain binary compatibility with C, and another to import and use C symbols all over the place in the standard library. I think that interfaces with C (or any other language) should be reduced to the minimum required to make something work, and nothing more. So, keep the usage of malloc/realloc/free to allocators and whatnot, and use fread/fwrite only in stdio. Absolutely agreed, I’d love to use Phobos in code targeting smaller platforms that is not just desktop Linux, macOS, windows or Bsd. Also being able to use smaller libc(s) where a full glibc is not available would be really nice. I am totally on board with this if the community thinks there are improvements to be had here. Head on over to the Design repo and you can either submit a PR to the design document, or start a discussion if there is disagreement on how to handle this.
Minor note, D on NASA Goddard software page
Hi D Just a minor note. My simple bindings for the NASA Common Data Format (CDF) library are listed on the user supplied software page: https://cdf.gsfc.nasa.gov/html/user_supplied_sw.html (scroll down) The library itself is absolutely nothing to crow about. The only useful thing it does is provide real functions for what is largely a C macro based low-level interface, but it's nice to see D mentioned on a NASA site. Maybe someday I'll have time to write a pure D implementation of CDF handling to support threaded web services, but for now simple bindings are a start.
Re: Phobos 3 Development is Open!
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 15:55:52 UTC, Andrew wrote: On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 15:45:06 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote: https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/8925/files#diff-647aa2ce9ebedd6759a2f1c55752f0279de8ae7ba55e3c270bd59e1f8c1a5162R131 Why can't D have its own types? I have to agree with ryuukk_ on this one; it's one thing to maintain binary compatibility with C, and another to import and use C symbols all over the place in the standard library. I think that interfaces with C (or any other language) should be reduced to the minimum required to make something work, and nothing more. So, keep the usage of malloc/realloc/free to allocators and whatnot, and use fread/fwrite only in stdio. Absolutely agreed, I’d love to use Phobos in code targeting smaller platforms that is not just desktop Linux, macOS, windows or Bsd. Also being able to use smaller libc(s) where a full glibc is not available would be really nice.
Re: The New DIP Process
On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 8:28:01 PM MST Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d- announce wrote: > Most of the process takes place in two new forums: DIP Ideas and > DIP Development (dip.idea and dip.development on the NNTP > server). The purpose of the Ideas forum is to determine if > developing the DIP is feasible. The purpose of the Development > forum is to strengthen proposals in development. I see that they're up on the NNTP server, and the web forum is hooked up to them, but there is no mailing list. Is that forthcoming and just isn't up yet since that takes some time, or are these lists not going to have mailing lists like the others? - Jonathan M Davis
Re: The New DIP Process
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 03:28:01 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: After discussion in a recent meeting, we're ready now to start accepting DIPs for review. And that means it's time to announce the new process. Very excited to see this. I've already submitted my own DIP idea to get the ball rolling, and am looking forward to seeing what the rest of the community comes up with.
Re: Phobos 3 Development is Open!
On Wednesday, 28 February 2024 at 15:45:06 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote: https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/8925/files#diff-647aa2ce9ebedd6759a2f1c55752f0279de8ae7ba55e3c270bd59e1f8c1a5162R131 Why can't D have its own types? I have to agree with ryuukk_ on this one; it's one thing to maintain binary compatibility with C, and another to import and use C symbols all over the place in the standard library. I think that interfaces with C (or any other language) should be reduced to the minimum required to make something work, and nothing more. So, keep the usage of malloc/realloc/free to allocators and whatnot, and use fread/fwrite only in stdio.
Re: Phobos 3 Development is Open!
https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/8925/files#diff-647aa2ce9ebedd6759a2f1c55752f0279de8ae7ba55e3c270bd59e1f8c1a5162R131 Why can't D have its own types? Just importing this introduces dependencies on other system modules ```D import core.stdc.config; import core.stdc.stddef; // for wchar_t import core.stdc.signal; // for sig_atomic_t import core.stdc.wchar_; // for wint_t ``` Wich makes phobos harder to use on platforms without these I think Phobos as a base shouldn't depend on libc, only specific parts eg: network/event modules for example, so it becomes easier to port when required
Phobos 3 Development is Open!
The first PR for Phobos 3 has been merged into the Phobos repo! Now, to be clear, this is mostly a housekeeping PR that paves the way for further work and there isn't actually anything useful in it yet. We've setup the basic structure, DUB build/test config, and copied over the modules that don't have any `std` imports. The next project will be to (slowly) audit each file for any trace of auto-decoding. No module can be added to V3 without first being cleared of auto-decoding. With this comes a few changes in the development process for Phobos. The first of which is that all changes to Phobos will now need to be cross-applied to both libraries. We have kept V3 in the same repo as V2 to make this process easier, but you will need to check the V3 directory (tentatively labeled `lib`) to see if the V2 file you're modifying is included in V3 yet, and if it is, please include your change in corresponding V3 file as well. This will be enforced during the review process. If you are unsure, you can ping me on GitHub as `@LightBender` in your PR and I'll take a look. As we progress, I am sure that the other reviewers will become familiar with the state of the V3 code-base. Note that this process will continue for the indefinite future as we intended to maintain V2 alongside V3+. While the exact level of support that V2 will receive once V3 is launched hasn't been fulled resolved, at a minimum, it must remain in a buildable state indefinitely. Another note is that I do have a day job, so I will only be working on V3 in my spare time, as such, any help with the auto-decoding audit would be immensely appreciated as that will significantly speed up the time to completion and let us start focusing on the projects we all want to see happen in Phobos. If you have any V3 specific questions or comments you can join the discussion that's happening in this GitHub repo: https://github.com/LightBender/PhobosV3-Design Or, you can ask on the Forums and in the Discord and I'll do my best to keep up with the updates in those places. Finally, I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to the design of V3 already (there are too many to list, you know who you are), you've been a wonderful help as we start this journey. Thanks to your efforts the future of Phobos is looking very bright!
Re: The New DIP Process
Excellent. I haven't heard anything about my export DIP, the last that was said from Mike is that Walter might want to review it external to the DIP process. Unfortunately no feedback beyond that so unless I'm told otherwise, its DIP TIME! As it has already had a lot of back and forth from Walter and me with the help of Adam Wilson (very much appreciated!), it's ready for a development forum post. So Mike, once the forum is up, am I in the clear to start at development? https://gist.github.com/rikkimax/1d7cfdb8ed74e9e4efc9ba0208f42e7e
