Re: [digitalradio] WINMOR Sound Card Mode
Rick, Thank you for taking the time to post these important details. It will be exciting to see the results of your work. I hope that efforts will be made to establish the product as public domain. 73 Andy On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:43 PM, kn6kb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Fellow Hams, > > I don't have much time to spend on forums these days but I wanted to > put a few things straight to end the speculation on the WINMOR sound > card mode I will be presenting at this years DCC in Chicago next > month. > > 1) This is still in development and presented as a work in progress. > But there has been much work and real testing completed. It is not > yet available for beta testing. > > 2) The objective is to create a message oriented (text plus > attachments - with binary compression) mode that would be close > to "plug and play" with the primary motivation to allow access to > message systems on HF with a reduced cost of entry (compared to > Pactor 1, 2 or 3). It is not targeted to be used in Keyboard mode > though with the proper application software this could probably be > done. > > 3) The mode is true ARQ with error free delivery of binary data and > is designed to work over a wide range of HF channel conditions. This > is accomplished by variing modulation mode (BPSK, QPSK, 16QAM), frame > length, number of OFDM carriers and FEC coding to suit the current > channel conditions. As such like Pactor it will go faster in good > channels and slow down for more robustness in poor channels. The max > ARQ throughput (good channels) is in the range of .5 to 1 bits/Sec/Hz > > 4) The current design uses a fixed low symbol rate of 62.5 Hz > operating the sound card in an 8000 Hz sample rate. There are modes > which can work in channel bandwidth (-26dB) of 200 Hz, 500Hz and > 2000Hz allowing it to be used in different band segments. > > 5) The testing is progressing primarily off-air using a bi- > directional HF channel simulator over 4 primary CCIR channel types > across 5 S/N ranges (20 total HF channel scenarios). These tests have > also been done with Pactor (1, 2, and 3) for a direct apples-to- > apples comparison across the same HF channels. > > 6) The implementation is currently a Windows (VB.NET 2005/DirectX) > application that appears as a virtual TNC to the Message system > application client or server. Ultimately this application interface > may be done in 3 implementations: DLL, Virtual serial port, or TCPIP > port (local or remote). > I don't have the skills or time to build and release a native Linux > version. The protocol is designed to accomodate the typical OS and > sound card latency issues found in Windows or Linux. > > 7) The protocol will be fully documented. I anticipate a preliminay > (working) document release after the DCC presentation in September. > After the presentation the Winlink.org web site will have links to > the documentation, the DCC paper and the PowerPoint slides presented. > The documentation will detail the protocol and include suggested > implementations but will not be a "how to" document. To duplicate the > protocol will require a good knowledge of sound cards and DSP. > > 8) No decision has been made on the release of source code or in any > licensing of the applications or virtual TNC. If the program or DLL > is licensed it will probably be through the Amateur Radio Safety > Foundation Inc. www.arsfi.org. This is a public charity 501C3 > corporation set up for the training, deployment and advancement of > amateur radio emergency communications. If any license fee is > charged it will be modest (< $100) and used to support and expand the > arsfi.org projects. > > Please understand I am very busy now doing extensive testing so I > have up-to-date, accurate and relevent REAL data to present at the > conference. I don't have time now to go into the details of > modulation modes, tuning, memory ARQ and all the other details that > make up such a protocol. > > This a hobby and I am working on this as I have time while balancing > other demands so projections of release dates are always approximate. > My best guess now is to have a limited (limited to specific user > clients and system servers) beta release in the next 3-6 months. > > I would welcome help from those that can and are willing to work. > There is still much work to do but what I have working now proves it > CAN be done and WINMOR should offer an alternative to Pactor on HF. > > 73, > > Rick Muething KN6KB/AAA9WK > > -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
[digitalradio] Automatic Digimode Identifiers
Automatic Digimode Identifiers
Patrick Lindecker F6CTE has written a useful paper on Automatic Digimode
Identifiers
The paper 'RS_ID_English.DOC' describes the use of identifiers for digital
transmissions to enable the receiving station to automatically determine which
mode is in use.
RS_ID_English Contents:
* Introduction,
* Reed-Solomon identifier ("RS-ID") of mode and frequency,
- Main use
- Principle
* The video identifier of mode ("Video ID").
- Main use
- Principle
The paper RS_ID_English.DOC can be downloaded from:
http://f6cte.free.fr/PAPERS.ZIP
by G4TUT at QRZ.com
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Mode Path Simulations; Revised
Hello Tony, TKS for all data. It is interesting to have a completly different way to find the minimum S/N. I note that you find PAX a bit better than ARQ FAE (in APRS without ARQ memory). With my measures it was reversed (ARQ FAE:-11.5 dB against -10 dB for PAX). I was a bit surprised for PSK10. My measures gives -17.5 dB, yours -20 dB but we are coherent for PSKAM10: mine: -19.5 dB, yours -20 dB When I'm very surprised is about RS ID. My measures gives a minimum of -14 dB, yours -25 dB Do you really detect the mode defined with the RS ID with a -25 dB signal? For the rest, it is obvious that PSK10 and PSKAM10 under disturbed conditions are not very good as PSK modes in general. Video ID is readable with strong signals. That's true. 73 and TKS again Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Digital Mode Path Simulations; Revised Patrick, Please see below. Added the modes you requested to the HF path simulation tests. ALE400 (unproto) PSK10 PSKAM10 RSID Video ID Tony, K2MO + Sensitivity Test #1 Minimum SNR(no Ionosphere distortion)This test was conducted to reveal the weak signal potential of each mode beforesubjecting the signal to ionospheric distortion. The signal-to-noise ratios represent theweakest signal attainable while the modedecoded 100% of the message fed throughthe simulator. The "Quick Brown Fox" Pangram was usedfor each test. Jason Turbo (Fast)...-25dbPSK10-20dbPSKAM10..-20dbContestia 500/32.-15db DominoEX-4 ..-15db FEC-31...-15dbTHROBX-4.-15db MFSK16...-14db THOR11...-14db RTTYM-13db* Contestia 500/16.-13db CW 20 WPM.13db** THOR16...-12db Olivia 500/16 ...-12db MFSK31*..-12db Olivia 500/8.-10db PSK31... -10db DominoEX-11...-8db MT63 1K...-8db Olivia 500/4. -8db PSK63.-7db Feld Hell.-7db RTTY 45...-5db PAX2..-2dbHFPacket (300baud)+1db * Intermittent "bug" with RTTYM MixW Software ** Subjective speed dictates SNR __ Sensitivity Test #2Direct Path -12db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -12db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each modes with a decode threshold above -12db. Olivia 500/8 ...90% Olivia 500/490% DominoEX 11.,...90% PSK31...90% PSK63...20% Feld Hell...Readable MT63 1K.no copy RTTY 45 baudno copy ___ Sensitivity Test #3Direct Path -15db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -15db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each mode with a decode threshold above -15db. MFSK16.95% Contestia 500/32...95% Olivia 500/16..90% Thor11.80% RTTYM..80% Contestia 500/16..<50% DominoEX 11bd.<50% Olivia 500/8. <50% MFSK31<50% PSK31.<50% Feld Hell.No Copy MT63..No Copy Olivia 500/4..No Copy PSK63.No Copy RTTY 45...No Copy THOR16No Copy ___ Ionospheric Simulations Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: ModerateMagnitude: ModeratePath Delay: 3 msec Frequency Spread: 10Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -8db Contestia 500/16.100% CW 20 WPM100% MFSK16...100% MFSK31**.100% Olivia 500/16100% Olivia 500/8.100% RTTYM 500/32.100% Olivia 500/4..90% Feld Hell. ...90%* ThrobX-4..70% DominoEX 4bd.No Copy Domi
[digitalradio] BONITO RADIOCOMM 6
Dear group. I would be gratefull if anyone can gve me their opinions of radio comm 6 from Bonito. I am waiting for details from Martyn Lynch prices interfaces etc.But would appreciate an feed back. I have 3 tcvrs that I would like to use with it. 1/Yaesu ft8900r 2/Icom IC706MK11G 3/Trio TS940SAT. Would anyone be able to tell me if the radiocomm interface can be atatched to thee 3 tcvrs please?. cheers and thanks Barrie g4yjs.
Re: [digitalradio] HRD: Script error when running DX Cluster
To be honest, no - I will look into this tomorrow as I have a feeling I can stop it inside the HRD code but it's something you've got on your system which causes this :-( I think I stopped it with the IE browsers inside DM780. I assume it's HRD causing the problem, not DM780? Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: "Ian Wade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > You'll remember the above thread. I've now downloaded the latest HRD > (Version 4 SP4 build 1901 Jul 10 2008), and tried various combinations > of disable script debugging and display notification as above, but the > problem is still there. >
[digitalradio] WINMOR Sound Card Mode
Fellow Hams, I don't have much time to spend on forums these days but I wanted to put a few things straight to end the speculation on the WINMOR sound card mode I will be presenting at this years DCC in Chicago next month. 1) This is still in development and presented as a work in progress. But there has been much work and real testing completed. It is not yet available for beta testing. 2) The objective is to create a message oriented (text plus attachments - with binary compression) mode that would be close to "plug and play" with the primary motivation to allow access to message systems on HF with a reduced cost of entry (compared to Pactor 1, 2 or 3). It is not targeted to be used in Keyboard mode though with the proper application software this could probably be done. 3) The mode is true ARQ with error free delivery of binary data and is designed to work over a wide range of HF channel conditions. This is accomplished by variing modulation mode (BPSK, QPSK, 16QAM), frame length, number of OFDM carriers and FEC coding to suit the current channel conditions. As such like Pactor it will go faster in good channels and slow down for more robustness in poor channels. The max ARQ throughput (good channels) is in the range of .5 to 1 bits/Sec/Hz 4) The current design uses a fixed low symbol rate of 62.5 Hz operating the sound card in an 8000 Hz sample rate. There are modes which can work in channel bandwidth (-26dB) of 200 Hz, 500Hz and 2000Hz allowing it to be used in different band segments. 5) The testing is progressing primarily off-air using a bi- directional HF channel simulator over 4 primary CCIR channel types across 5 S/N ranges (20 total HF channel scenarios). These tests have also been done with Pactor (1, 2, and 3) for a direct apples-to- apples comparison across the same HF channels. 6) The implementation is currently a Windows (VB.NET 2005/DirectX) application that appears as a virtual TNC to the Message system application client or server. Ultimately this application interface may be done in 3 implementations: DLL, Virtual serial port, or TCPIP port (local or remote). I don't have the skills or time to build and release a native Linux version. The protocol is designed to accomodate the typical OS and sound card latency issues found in Windows or Linux. 7) The protocol will be fully documented. I anticipate a preliminay (working) document release after the DCC presentation in September. After the presentation the Winlink.org web site will have links to the documentation, the DCC paper and the PowerPoint slides presented. The documentation will detail the protocol and include suggested implementations but will not be a "how to" document. To duplicate the protocol will require a good knowledge of sound cards and DSP. 8) No decision has been made on the release of source code or in any licensing of the applications or virtual TNC. If the program or DLL is licensed it will probably be through the Amateur Radio Safety Foundation Inc. www.arsfi.org. This is a public charity 501C3 corporation set up for the training, deployment and advancement of amateur radio emergency communications. If any license fee is charged it will be modest (< $100) and used to support and expand the arsfi.org projects. Please understand I am very busy now doing extensive testing so I have up-to-date, accurate and relevent REAL data to present at the conference. I don't have time now to go into the details of modulation modes, tuning, memory ARQ and all the other details that make up such a protocol. This a hobby and I am working on this as I have time while balancing other demands so projections of release dates are always approximate. My best guess now is to have a limited (limited to specific user clients and system servers) beta release in the next 3-6 months. I would welcome help from those that can and are willing to work. There is still much work to do but what I have working now proves it CAN be done and WINMOR should offer an alternative to Pactor on HF. 73, Rick Muething KN6KB/AAA9WK
Re: [digitalradio] HRD: Script error when running DX Cluster
From: Ian Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 Time: 17:28:23 >Running Win XP Home + SP2 + all subsequent updates. Just installed HRD >4.0 Build SP1 1848. > >When looking at a page of DX Cluster spots, the following message pops >up all by itself: > >~~ >Internet Explorer Script Error. > >An error has occurred in the script on this page. >Line: 201 >Char: 1 >Error: Object expected >Code: 0 >URL: http://www.qrz.com/detail/ >~~~ > >The in the URL is the first callsign in the DX Cluster list. >I say "Yes" to "Do you want to continue running scripts on this page?". >The popup disappears, but reappears a few seconds later, with the next > listed on the DX Cluster page. And so on, ad infinitum. > >Same thing also happens if I say "No" to "Do you want to continue >running scripts on this page?". > >This makes HRD unusable. > >If it makes any difference, my default browser is Opera (I only use IE >for XP updates). ~ From: Simon Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 Time: 10:07:15 >Hi Ian, > >HRD *always* uses the IE engine, even if you have Opera installed. I seem to >remember that in DM780 I managed to stop these popups - it's an IE setting >somewhere. In IE 7 look at the Help menu / About Internet Explorer for the >version info. > >I'll have to Google for the answer - it is a Windows / IE setting somewhere. > >Simon Brown, HB9DRV > >-- >From: "Ian Wade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> I have IE7 installed (I'm not sure which release, as I can't find the >> Help About button any place!). >> >> I followed your instructions above, and found the following already set >> (presumably by default, as I haven't changed anything): >> ~ >> [x] Disable script debugging (Internet Explorer) >> [x] Disable script debugging (Other) >> [ ] Display a notification about every script error >> ~ >> >> Now what do I do? I repeat, I run Opera with HRD, not IE. >> Hi Simon, You'll remember the above thread. I've now downloaded the latest HRD (Version 4 SP4 build 1901 Jul 10 2008), and tried various combinations of disable script debugging and display notification as above, but the problem is still there. Any more ideas? -- 73 Ian, G3NRW
[digitalradio] Digital Mode Path Simulations; Revised
Patrick, Please see below. Added the modes you requested to the HF path simulation tests. ALE400 (unproto) PSK10 PSKAM10 RSID Video ID Tony, K2MO + Sensitivity Test #1 Minimum SNR(no Ionosphere distortion)This test was conducted to reveal the weak signal potential of each mode beforesubjecting the signal to ionospheric distortion. The signal-to-noise ratios represent theweakest signal attainable while the modedecoded 100% of the message fed throughthe simulator. The "Quick Brown Fox" Pangram was usedfor each test. Jason Turbo (Fast)...-25dbPSK10-20dbPSKAM10..-20dbContestia 500/32.-15db DominoEX-4 ..-15db FEC-31...-15dbTHROBX-4.-15db MFSK16...-14db THOR11...-14db RTTYM-13db* Contestia 500/16.-13db CW 20 WPM.13db** THOR16...-12db Olivia 500/16 ...-12db MFSK31*..-12db Olivia 500/8.-10db PSK31... -10db DominoEX-11...-8db MT63 1K...-8db Olivia 500/4. -8db PSK63.-7db Feld Hell.-7db RTTY 45...-5db PAX2..-2dbHFPacket (300baud)+1db* Intermittent "bug" with RTTYM MixW Software** Subjective speed dictates SNR __ Sensitivity Test #2Direct Path -12db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -12db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each modes with a decode threshold above -12db. Olivia 500/8 ...90% Olivia 500/490% DominoEX 11.,...90% PSK31...90% PSK63...20% Feld Hell...Readable MT63 1K.no copy RTTY 45 baudno copy ___Sensitivity Test #3Direct Path -15db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -15db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each mode with a decode threshold above -15db. MFSK16.95% Contestia 500/32...95% Olivia 500/16..90% Thor11.80% RTTYM..80% Contestia 500/16..<50% DominoEX 11bd.<50% Olivia 500/8. <50% MFSK31<50% PSK31.<50% Feld Hell.No Copy MT63..No Copy Olivia 500/4..No Copy PSK63.No Copy RTTY 45...No Copy THOR16No Copy ___ Ionospheric SimulationsSimulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: ModerateMagnitude: ModeratePath Delay: 3 msec Frequency Spread: 10Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -8db Contestia 500/16.100% CW 20 WPM100% MFSK16...100% MFSK31**.100% Olivia 500/16100% Olivia 500/8.100% RTTYM 500/32.100% Olivia 500/4..90% Feld Hell. ...90%* ThrobX-4..70% DominoEX 4bd.No Copy DominoEX 11bdNo Copy FEC-31...No CopyPSK31No CopyJason Turbo (fast)...No CopyPSK10No CopyPSKAM10..No Copy PSK63No Copy RTTY45...No Copy THOR-11..No Copy THOR-16..No Copy MT63.No Copy *diffuse text - readable ___ Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: HighPath Delay: 7 msec Frequency Spread: 30 Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -3dbContestia 500/16.100% CW 20 WPM100% Olivia 500/16100% Olivia 500/8.100% Olivia 500/4..95% RTTYM.95%** MFSK31... 90% MFSK1675% RTTY..
