Re: [digitalradio] Re: Emision designators for EasyPal
Maybe you should look at it like this EasyPal only transmits the FILE (ANY TYPE OF FILE) but it is a program function that decodes the file when received correctly and then displays it as a picture - or text or whatever Les VK2DSG From: Rui Manuel Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:41 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Emision designators for EasyPal --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John B. Stephensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was assuming that people use EasyPal in the phone/image portions of the HF bands as it is marketed as an SSTV program. 73, John KD6OZH Ok John as a wide mode it should only be use in the phone part of the bands, no questions about that. In SSB mode I am tented to classify it also as J2C but the 2 classifier, says that it as only one modulated subcarrier, and it as several subcarries. The C symbol nominates it as picture. Could it be J7C or even J8C for several carriers ? So a SSB signal using this program and sending a picture could be classify as J = SSB 8 = analog and digital in the same emission and several carriers. C = picture An SSB signal using this program and transmitting a txt file could be classified as J = SSB 8 = analog and digital in the same emission and several carriers. D = Data transmission I must say that I am using the program in 14.233/236 with very good results, so I am not the better judge. My intention is to ask permission to use it in the digital part of the 2m band, so I must have a classification for it. Here we can't do Analog SSTV in the 2m Band, only Fax. My intention is to ask permission for 12K5F8D or 12K5F8C who knows? I must see the 2 extra designators also. Rui CT1QK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Emision designators for EasyPal
I think it would be more correct to say that it is file transfer program - not an SSTV program - depending on the type of file sent it will either display it as a picture - if indeed it is some type of picture file - or save it if it is a data file - or display it as a .txt file if it is a text file and even display it in the waterfall if it is a .wav file - or even send it as a .eml file providing it is going to a station that is set up as an email server Les VK2DSG From: John B. Stephensen Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:41 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Emision designators for EasyPal I was assuming that people use EasyPal in the phone/image portions of the HF bands as it is marketed as an SSTV program. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Rick W To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 18:52 UTC Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Emision designators for EasyPal Hi John, While the EasyPal program is primarily used on HF for image transmission, since it can send data in most any form, the Third Symbol does matter here in the U.S. since you can not send image (fax) in the RTTY/Data portions of the bands unless 500 Hz or narrower and EasyPal is closer to a phone bandwidth in size. Many countries have no specific rules like we have and while it is true that there are a number of scofflaw hams, the better way to handle this is to change the rules rather than violate them. Or at the very least, have a bureaucratic interpretation which then effectively has the force of law unless overridden by higher authority. The land mobile services do not follow Part 97 rules so these rules do not apply to radio amateurs. If the FCC ignores certain rules (and they clearly do, based on what can only be described as stonewalling on some of these issues for quite some time), then it is difficult for them to argue when any rules are not followed. Not a good thing in my view and hopefully the view of most law abiding hams. But just because most of us follow the rules, (or try to t the best of our abilities), does not necessarily mean we agree with them. Unfortunately, the majority of U.S. hams do not support changes to these rules:( My preference would be getting the FCC to agree that any files that could be sent by a program such as EasyPal would then be legal to use in the Phone/Image portions of the bands. I suppose sending a petition would be one way since they do not respond to those of us who have asked for an interpretation. I am guessing that they are betting that no one will petition them, which would be a 100 times more paperwork for them than just responding to a request. Otherwise, you would think that they would respond, as best they can, to avoid a petition. I would like to see it decided one way or the other. 73, Rick, KV9U John B. Stephensen wrote: EasyPal uses DRM so there are multiple subcarriers and its facsimile as it displays an image on the screen so J2C seems appropriate. The FCC definition of facsimile allows the image to be stored in a file before or after transmission without affecting the emission designator. If it is used to transmit a file that it can't display then the third symbol might have to change to D but the FCC probably doesn't care at this point as it allows data in broadcast TV transmissions and RTTY mixed with voice transmissions in the land mobile radio service. 73, John KD6OZH
Re: [digitalradio] MT63 freq ?
Hi Tony Well I am still around and when we get some conditions back again so that a qso is possible you will find me on mt63 again on the old frequency - I see the sun spot number has been up to 12 over the last day or so so there could at last be an upward trend Was some reports here today of some transmissions copied on EasyPal from the US so maybe things will look up soon Regards Les VK2DSG From: Tony Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:03 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] MT63 freq ? John, 14,109.5 still being used for MT63? Activity is not what it once was, but I still catch the occasional QSO now and then. I used to have regular QSO's with VK2DSG on 20 meters around the time IZ8BLY released his MT63 software. The mode had a good following for several years. Let me know when you're QRV John. Can sked with you this weekend. The mode is certainly robust; does very well with static crashes and QRM. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Becker, WØJAB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: [digitalradio] MT63 freq ? 14,109.5 still being used for MT63?
[digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857
Greetings to all Is anyone using the FT857 for RFSM8000 I have been trying mine out over the past two days after getting a new Signalink USB interface Big problem with the RX passband - it is not wide enough using the standard filter supplied with the FT857 and consequently too much of the signal is cut off on the low frequency end of the audio Waterfall shows that there is no or very little audio up to about 700 hz making it impossible so far to make a connect even though it will spring up the called station every time Any ideas? I am now looking at an INRAD filter either 2500 or 2900 that would allow the required passband audio Any comments or feedback welcome Regards Les VK2DSG
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857
Hi Skip The problem is that I need to pass around 2.4 khz of signal audio and with the stock filter it will not do it - have to look at a wider filter or an IC7000 hihi Regards Les From: kh6ty Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:40 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857 Les, Are you sure it is the IF passband? If your BFO injection frequency is set correctly, you should be able to pass 300 to maybe 2200 Hz. Otherwise, SSB phone will have no lows. If you have audio transformers in a homebrew interface, make sure they have the necessary frequency response. The best around here seem to be the little green ones from Radio Shack. 73, Skip KH6TY - Original Message - From: Leskep To: Digitalradio Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857 Greetings to all Is anyone using the FT857 for RFSM8000 I have been trying mine out over the past two days after getting a new Signalink USB interface Big problem with the RX passband - it is not wide enough using the standard filter supplied with the FT857 and consequently too much of the signal is cut off on the low frequency end of the audio Waterfall shows that there is no or very little audio up to about 700 hz making it impossible so far to make a connect even though it will spring up the called station every time Any ideas? I am now looking at an INRAD filter either 2500 or 2900 that would allow the required passband audio Any comments or feedback welcome Regards Les VK2DSG -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1385 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 9:30 AM
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857
Hi Alan This is using the digi port on the 857 with all dsp functions off but I need 2400 hz of audio passband just to fit the non standard RFSM8000 signal in and just cant get it from stock standard 857 Maybe just put it back in my mobile and consider other options for digital use - at least the FT920 works well on RFSM Regards Les From: Alan Barrow Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:55 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 and Yaesu FT857 Hello, You should be using the digi port, and there is a specific setting that allows you to center the filter passband around typical digi signals. I find 200 hz up works best for ALE. Since the signal is now centered, I can then even use the DSP bandpass to really tighten up. If you have not centered the signal, or are using USB you will need to turn DSP bandpass off. I don't know how the signalink interfaces, but the 857/897 needs no interface for soundcard/tnc usage and is already decoupled at the digi-port on the back of the radio. Have fun, Alan km4ba
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000
Rick de Les From: Rick Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 6:44 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 Hi John, Using RFSM 2400, I was able to connect with the non standard mode, but had to go to 50 watts, and initially showed a 5 dB S/N connection, but nothing would go through. There is a beep tone at the beginning of each transmission and I see a large spike on the spectrum display which I am guessing should be centered on the red vertical line? It is difficult to have enough time to estimate where the spike should be set but your rig is apparently very close to the exact frequency. I still very much appreciate the constellation display and this program has been the first that that has allowed me to see this dynamically displayed on screen. I have seen this on diagrams, of course, but seeing it in a real life display it is very impressive -Rick Below the constellation display you will see a +/- figure on receive - just make this figure read 0 (zero) or as close as you can using your main tuning dial at very slow speed while receiving ---Regards Les
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy.
If you use one end in Repeater mode you can remotely download pictures as required from the webcam This would then give you the camera link as well as the radio link but you would need two sets of equipment - one at each end and can be done on hf - vhf - uhf It is not SSTV but Digital file transfer Les From: orionshelper Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 3:00 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy. Thanks Les, that might be interesting for the image collection part of it. It looks like a nice SSTV program. Martin, I was not able to get Google to translate the webpage from Dutch to English. Actually, when I run it through the Google translate, it just gives me a header page. I have found several wireless (radio) setups that can support remoting the RS232 over pretty long distances. One system supports distance up to 40 miles and another up to 15 miles. These are not in the amateur radio realm, but there may still be something to do that. The operating frequencies are in the 900 Mhz range and in the 2.4 Ghz range. What I have found so far is in the commercial arena so I do not know if I should post links here yet. I do not want to violate posting rules. I would still rather find something using amateur radio. I think it would be so much more fun. --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Leskep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a look at EasyPal http://www.kc1cs.com/digi.htm It has facility for camera - may be worth investigating and the pics will be good Les From: orionshelper Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 6:27 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy. Andrew and group .. I joined in hopes of finding some way of integrating digital radio (s) to my existing telescope controls. Currently, they essientially use standard RS232 for operation. In addition, I also want to be able to retreive the images. These could either be in realtime video, or as captures. I suspect that SSTV would not provide the desired resolution. I would like to be able to use the scope(s) remotely at an extended unmanned location where direct wiring is impractical. Radio would be the only logical answer. Obviously,I suspect that the only way to do this is going to be at 70 cm or above. Any suggestions on how to at least create a realtime wireless RS232 link? Thanks --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andrew O'Brien andrewobrie@ wrote: We had a neew member join us today that said ... would like to explore possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy. This would be in interfacing digital mode radios to telescopes for remote control and image collection Any thoughts ?
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy.
Have a look at EasyPal http://www.kc1cs.com/digi.htm It has facility for camera - may be worth investigating and the pics will be good Les From: orionshelper Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 6:27 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy. Andrew and group .. I joined in hopes of finding some way of integrating digital radio(s) to my existing telescope controls. Currently, they essientially use standard RS232 for operation. In addition, I also want to be able to retreive the images. These could either be in realtime video, or as captures. I suspect that SSTV would not provide the desired resolution. I would like to be able to use the scope(s) remotely at an extended unmanned location where direct wiring is impractical. Radio would be the only logical answer. Obviously,I suspect that the only way to do this is going to be at 70 cm or above. Any suggestions on how to at least create a realtime wireless RS232 link? Thanks --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We had a neew member join us today that said ... would like to explore possibilities of integrating digital radio to astronomy. This would be in interfacing digital mode radios to telescopes for remote control and image collection Any thoughts ?
Re: [digitalradio] Re: MT63 Hardware Question
Hi Well it did happen - the Motorola 56002 EVM could be programmed to work as MANY different modems --- please try this link http://det.bi.ehu.es/~jtpjatae/ham.html also if you Google mt63+evm 56002 you should get plenty of reading I used one - and still have it - from late 1998 There was plenty of software available for many different applications Regards Les VK2DSG From: David McGinnis Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:00 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: MT63 Hardware Question - To answer that in one word, no. Ain't going to happen. The reason so so many use the sound card modes right now is because they don't have to *buy* some black box to do it. John, W0JAB Thanks John, That answer is no help. I understand the economics of it, but black boxes are more reliable than PCs. For most hobby applications it probably doesn't matter, and your point is valid. You gain nothing for nothing paid. Dave K7UXO
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 Mail Server
Hi Howard The RFSM mail server can send email - originated by any outstation which can connect to the Mail Server by radio - onto any internet mail address Any mail coming from an internet mail address and addressed to the servers email address in the To line and then addressed to the callsign (in the Subject line) of any remote which can connect to the server - will be placed in its Mailbox on the server for collection by that station as required [Delivery to multiple (callsigns) or email addresses is handled bothways Attachments can be included Just the action of connecting to the Server by a remote station will create a mailbox in the name of the connecting station on the server When a remote station sends an email to the server a folder called OUT_EML is created as a subfolder of that callsign and the outgoing mail is picked up from there at the time determined in the server Setup - every X minutes See using e-mail.txt in the README folder in RFSM8000 Hope that explains it enough for you Regards Les VK2DSG From: Howard Brown Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 3:50 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM8000 Mail Server Can anyone comment about the RFSM8000 mail server? Would this work in an emergency as an adhoc email gateway server? Does it need routing tables to determine how to deliver email (especially local email)?? It would be great to find a description of this. Howard K5HB
[digitalradio] Bands improving
US ssb stations now readable on 7183 lsb at 0600 utc W5RG BOB s8/9 A lift in conditions maybe heralds things to come SF=71 A=19 K=5 and SSN is 19 Les VK2DSG
Re: [digitalradio] MT63 Hardware Question
The EVM56002 - I have one sitting here - not been used since the soundcard programs became available Just type in EVM 56002 to Google Think I still have all of the old software as well Les VK2DSG From: David McGinnis Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] MT63 Hardware Question I know just about everybody does MT63 on a soundcard. I've done MT63 on a soundcard. The question is: Does anybody know of any hardware (modem type) device out there that does MT63? No soundcard. Dave K7UXO
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM 8000
Hi All Re RFSM2400 Dont think it is quite right to say it operates at 2400 baud - it operates at 2400 bits per second SEE http://library.thinkquest.org/27887/gather/fundamentals/bare_basics.shtml for info regarding bits - bytes - bauds And Andy - you may well be more confused when you read from the above link Les VK2DSG -- From: John B. Stephensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:19 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM 8000 From what I've seen, it implements MIL-STD-188-110B appendix C which operates at 2400 baud. It can be used in the HF phone/image segments for digital voice and facsimile and above 50.1 MHz for any purpose. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:40 UTC Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM 8000 Thanks John. Anyone in the USA care to remind us where on the bands the baud rates of RFSM can be used and where they cannot, and why ? I'm confused. Andy K3UK On Jan 27, 2008 11:06 PM, John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] RFSM 8000 Different pricing structure
Just looked at the RFSM2400 site to check for new versions and Dmitry has a new pricing structure for the Amateur version of RFSM8000 with the release of ver .528 http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru/ Regards Les VK2DSG
Re: [digitalradio] RFSM frequencies?
Hi Andrew Here in VK those that are testing use 14109.5 khz USB - 7183 and 3637.5 khz both LSB not that I expect it will do you much good under the present conditions If you display the Packets monitor window you will get all the link information and any chat between stations - main screen will show any BEACON packets received Les VK2DSG From: Andrew O'Brien Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:36 PM To: DIGITALRADIO Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM frequencies? What are the common frequencies that RFSM users are using for mail transfers ? Can the casual monitor decode any RFSM or is it restricted to just the two stations that are linked ? I see there is a beacon mode so I guess that I should be able to decode some beacons. -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Rick Doesnt only apply to software - I have already been down that same path with the P38 modem - got one going cheap if anyone wants it Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:52 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM I'm not sure what Les wrote about the cost of the product, but my understanding was that there was a temporary $60 price associated with RFSM8000 from the normal price. The question is: who will buy it at any price? If you have seen what has happened to other developers who tried to charge for their products, some of them having excellent value, they simply failed to find a market. In fact, I would be hard pressed to come up with any new ham software products in recent time that have taken off and been purchased by many hams. Consider programs such as the paperchaser log which was a niche logging program. After a few years the author discontinued the product because he only had a few buyers. I sure would not want to have been one of those buyers. But I nearly was as it looked like a very good program! Imagine someone buying such a program that t is now free, but worse, it is no longer been developed or supported. I suspect the same thing happened with the emergency group that thought they were going to be able to charge $50 per seat for their emergency program. I don't think it succeeded. But others have gone on to develop similar programs at no charge. But even those programs are not heavily used either. There is a limited amount of mindshare with all this technology and many of us are on overload as it is. (Not only for ham programs, but the hundreds of competing programs and even operating systems which are open source or at least free as in beer). I am now using an astronomy program that is completely free and that is as good as what you used to have to pay $50 to $100 for just a few years ago. The Open Office Suite has made it possible to avoid buying the MS Office Suite saving at least $500. I do not consider this a bad thing at all. It makes more software available to more people and equalizes the power to everyone and not just those with a lot of money. Where the RFSM8000 type of product seems to have the greatest value is in the commercial market. Assuming that it can compete with multi thousand dollar STANAG modems, it should be an excellent buy for those who use this technology. I know that I probably speak for a majority of hams who wish them well. As I have said many times, what I am looking for is a program that provides ARQ chat that can operate under the worst possible conditions and can also scale if conditions warrant so that I can send any data that I am interested in sending and is legal to use in my country. The technology has been invented to do slow, medium, and fast speeds (1000 wpm text data) depending upon the conditions, but no one has been able to put this together in a simple to use package that will appeal to the mainstream digital ham. I believe the best approach, and I see some are talking about this lately, are programs that are modular and you can bolt on various parts and not have to reinvent the wheel over and over with each new mode. 73, Rick, KV9U dmitry_d2d wrote: Hi Les, Rick and all. About prices of RFSM-8000. I'm sorry, but Les was wrote incorrect information. In January, we offer special low prices. Price of FULL Featured (with Mail-Server) version is 60 USD (only for HAMs). Mail-Client version is unavailable. And, we think, this action (special low prices for HAMs) will be continued - in February and more. Please, see our web-page for last correct information: http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru 73, Dmitry (RFSM-IDE Group). Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)
Hi Andrew Everyone really should only now use EasyPal instead of Hampal and always the latest from the KC1CS site EasyPal can work in a sort of ARQ manner if one or all of the stations has the following options ticked Under Action --- Use Repeater To work as a Repeater ONE station should set the program up as a Repeater Under Repeater ---Activate as a base Repeater By using this method the station working the Repeater can send a file to the Repeater - which will automatically ask for a BSR if required or it will say File ok if it is received correctly The receiving station can ask for the file to be replayed if required Any non repeater station can ask for a Directory from the Repeater listing all the files in the Repeater directory and download the required file There is also a facility to Upload Messages/files to the Repeater directory automatically by clicking Repeater/File is saved to external Repeater [retick each time] When this is used the transmitted file will be automatically sent to the Repeater Folder Any other station may then download that file -after getting a Directory from the Repeater - You can even address that file when uploaded to a specific station who can Delete that file after receiving it It should be understood that MANY stations can take their turn at either sending files or just pictures to the repeater or downloading files/pictures from the repeater - When setup like this there is absolutely no need for anyone to be in attendance at the Repeater - it will do it all automatically when queries/requests are sent by a remote station When using EasyPal you should always check to see that you use the mode which is most suited to the path at the time of the day A modes generally on very quiet bands VHF ETC B modes on 20/30 m and above - Sometimes you may get away using slower A modes E modes generally on 40m and 80 m See under Action / Quick select TX mode for recommendations You should always use the RS encoding system in the program Encode 1,2,3,4 Select the encode to suit the conditions There is more that the program is and will be capable of doing but I hope this will answer some questions posed by some on todays email VK2DSG Les From: Andrew O'Brien Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:43 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal) Les. I used the very latest version of Easypal but used the default settings for our quick test last night. I am an experienced user of Hampal, and even with that software there are a lot of useful features not always employed. You are right to point out the features of Easypal , I hope more people will use this software. As Rick mentioned , it would be interesting if something like Easypal had an option to fill the errors automatically on-the-fly in typical ARQ style. Just an option for people to try, the standard BSR/FIX method is useful for many other aspects of file transfers. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick You could get the Free RADIOAMATEUR Trial Test version [for 30 day trial] and do some experiments with that in the higher bands - this will allow you to experiment up to 8000 bits per second in wide bandwidth or up to bits per second in normal SSB bandwidth on HF You should run a Sample rate test program like CheckSR etc at the sample rate of 48k and then enter these figures in the program under Options/Preferences/Hardware - good transfer speeds will still depend on BOTH ends having calibrated correctly If you do try the TRIAL software you will find that there are MANY other options available to you to use like Waterfall - Email Client - Beacon - Unconnected chat between like stations - compression - File transfer RESUME if file uncompleted at last session and other things Now to sum things up Amateurs have the Freeware version .498 to use at no cost for file transfer and local mail at a speed of up to 2666 bits per second If you want a permanent Mail-Client version of RFSM8000 it costs $60 US If you want to be a Mail Server Current price is $180 US [This is the only issue I have with the pricing - in order to encourage the use I believe the Server software should be available at no cost to a few SELECTED stations in various countries who would be interested in supplying the Server facilities for others to use - remember that this is an ongoing cost the them to supply these facilities to other amateurs] There are many other amateur software writers wanting $50 US for their software so I guess inflation has caught up in the requirement for $60 for this program - hihi I also realise that there are many other Amateur writers that supply their software for FREE and I applaud this - what would all of us retired amateurs do to keep our minds active if we didnt have all these things to do and toys to play with Yes there are groups here in VK testing RFSM8000 on VHF but I have no reports on hand regarding this at the moment Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:16 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind of testing other than perhaps calling a dummy station. In regard to your questions: 1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two. 2. The sampling rate is set to 48000. 3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a large number of different modems) and from the published information, the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems? Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest. But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the relative performance of the software modems of various types? Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than NBEMS. If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick see comments below 5 spaces in Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:38 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM I was using the 10/Nov/07BETA of EasyPal which I downloaded fairly recently. I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 1 through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? I could not open those files with other programs. Perhaps you an give us some tutorial on it. The RS turned out to be Reed-Solomon coding so at least we know what is being used. Always use the latest from the KC1CS site You cannot Open an .rsx file - it is the means to transfer the file encoded and is automatically displayed in its original form at the receiving end Since it was the first time I ever tried EasyPal for transmitting, I don't have much background on this. I don't have a lot of interest in SSTV, per se, but I am using image as a surrogate for the data that I would rather be sending. EasyPal may be used for normal data transfer by loading as an ANYFILE but of course this is limited by the file size and the length of time to to transfer it depending on the mode and conditions existing at the time Because of an active group here in the midwestern part of the U.S. on daytime 40 meter SSTV (7173 kHz) I will sometimes leave SSTV programs on the frequency and automatically receive some of the images when signals are good. When you use the repeater function does that work with one to many as in nets? Or is that intended for one to one? Yes it is one to many - each station individually asking for any corrections to the original transmission by the repeater Can you send chat along with the image? Or at least send chat in between images? You can sent chat by Waterfall text or you can directly send a text message in a separate screen --- ActionSend text I did not change anything for conditions and used whatever the defaults are. What are some of the options that you recommend? See prior post Based upon the conditions, and my experience with receiving (not transmitting) DRM type of OFDM data, the roughly 1/6 throughput seems about right. When conditions are very good, such as NVIS daytime on 40 meters or close to NVIS anyway, with maybe 5 or 6 S units between the noise and the signal, it is posible to receive the majority of the packets (blocks) on the first try. Use the correct mode and always use encoding suitable for the noise on the path The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone high baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform the best in varying conditions. Maybe the answer is to have available BOTH and use the one which is most suitable at the time to suit the conditions Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference with computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real world under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate practical feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as a PhD paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world test. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick Unfortunately - you are right Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:00 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, While any of us could use the trial product, there are many other competing interests to work with these days and it is difficult to spend much time with something that is unlikely to be a successful product in ham radio. Even if hams could use the modem in the text digital portions of the bands here in the U.S. and even if it was free and supported, it might still languish. But if it carries a cost, it will almost certainly not succeed. The world has changed so much, even in the past couple of years. I have seen superb programs discontinued or released into the public domain because no one would buy them anymore. From what I can tell, the RFSM product seems like a very good one, but may be more of a commercial product. There are a few hams, but I suspect a decreasing number, who will pay money for certain kinds of programs, particularly logging programs that they have bought into years ago and want to continue using because they are familiar with them. But other software authors such as Dave Bernstein, have made that quite unnecessary with the DX Lab Suite. Same with Patricks mostly free Multipsk, and same for Simon's HRD/DM780 programs. Now we have VBDigi/Flarq, EasyPal, WinDRM, and so many others that do specific tasks. The important thing to keep in mind is not what I would pay for certain kinds of software, but what will the other hams pay. Even if I valued RFSM8000 as the best product in its niche, and right now that seems true, what really matters is will other hams in my area and region be willing to buy this product? I will wager than none will. None at all. And if a good sized number do not have this modem, then my modem will be of no value. It is difficult enough now to make contacts with many of the new modes because we are spread into such specialized niches. It has gotten to the point that some of us have to resort to the internet to coordinate contacts:( If I want to use this technology for emergency communications as well as for fun and enjoyment, it has to be open source or at least freely available so that enough users will at least consider it. Even then the choices are becoming quite intimidating to new entrants into digital radio. And then consider what most digital hams use for their digital modes? Mostly PSK31, SSTV, and RTTY and not much else as a percentage of digital activity. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Dmitry My apologies for the wrong information Les VK2DSG From: dmitry_d2d Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 5:40 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, Rick and all. About prices of RFSM-8000. I'm sorry, but Les was wrote incorrect information. In January, we offer special low prices. Price of FULL Featured (with Mail-Server) version is 60 USD (only for HAMs). Mail-Client version is unavailable. And, we think, this action (special low prices for HAMs) will be continued - in February and more. Please, see our web-page for last correct information: http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru 73, Dmitry (RFSM-IDE Group).
Re: [digitalradio] Happy Australia Day
Thank you Andrew - well temp here in Duri is 29c at 4 pm Would not like the 18 inches of snow out my door - only see snow maybe twice a year on the ranges 50 klm to the east of this location You also have a nice day Les VK2DSG From: Andrew O'Brien Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:04 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Happy Australia Day Happy Australia Day to all our VK members. Hope the weekend is not too hot for you, Melbourne looked nice and warm on TV today. Better than the 18 inches of snow I have outside my house! Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick Regarding RFSM2400/8000 I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program Options/Hardware This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on both TX and RX to achieve full speed On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve speeds as the records show below BTW Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability to work at bits per second The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg', compressed size 87920 bytes, from 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM Receiving file 'stop7.jpg', compressed size 15840 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:59 PM File 'stop7.jpg' received succesfully, all time 39 sec, average speed 3240 (3231) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:34:53 PM Sending request for file 'Recycle.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:32 PM Receiving file 'Recycle.jpg', compressed size 43945 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:45 PM File 'Recycle.jpg' received succesfully, all time 126 sec, average speed 2779 (2777) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:38:07 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 18/11/2007 - 3:39:21 PM Sending request for file 'closeeyes5.jpg'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:27 PM Receiving file 'closeeyes5.jpg', compressed size 75482 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:38 PM File 'closeeyes5.jpg' received succesfully, all time 195 sec, average speed 3095 (3089) bits/sec - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:09 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:54 PM Sending file 'Cycle24predictions.jpg', compressed size 65750 bytes (real size 76145 bytes), to 'VK2KNC'... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:17 PM Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM [I cut some server stuff out] Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM File 'Cycle24predictions.jpg' sended succesfully, all time 05:08 (mm:ss), average speed 1975 (1705) bits/sec - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:25 PM You might like to compare some of the above figures taken from the sys_log.txt from RFSM8000 Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Andy, K3UK and I had a very interesting experience this evening testing several sound card modes on the lower end of the 40 meter voice/image portion of the band. I have been wanting to do some comparison of the single tone high speed MIL-STD/FED-STD/STANAG modem in the RFSM2400 program with a multi tone OFDM modem. Signals were not that good between our locations, with deep QSB at times. Which was good for testing purposes. Andy running 100 watts and I running barefoot at times and up to about 250 watts when running digital (more on SSB). Once a minor glitch was taken care of, we discovered that the program is extremely easy to use. Just enter the station you wish to connect with and the negotiation is done by the software. There are some additional windows that can be opened that provide feedback on the actions being done. One window can be opened that includes an oscilloscope like screen that displays what appears to be a real time constellation of the received signal. Very impressive. Since we can only use this technology for sending image/fax here in the U.S., we elected to send some moderate sized jpeg images. I sent Andy a file that was 28521 bytes and it took 731 seconds to make the transfer which figures out to 312 bps. The software gives you this information upon completion of the file transfer. Andy then sent me a file of 7323 bytes which took 197 seconds or 295 bps. The software will display the received S/N ratio on screen and between each packet will update the transmitting station with how well the signal is (or isn't) being received with a S/N number. Even when I was only running 25 watts and turned off the amplifier, there was some throughput but it was reduced. The general report that I saw was 5 db S/N without and 10 dB with the amplifier. I would have
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Re EasyPal Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS site? Did you use the RS encoding which is available in the program? Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi ARQ type system? Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions at the time? There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well understood by many I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did for the tests There is also a difference in transmitting a compressed picture or sending the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Recent Activity a.. 11New Members b.. 1New Photos c.. 7New Files Visit Your Group Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. Yahoo! Groups Parenting Zone Share experiences with other parents. Special K Group on Yahoo! Groups Learn how others are losing pounds. .
[digitalradio] Fw: RFSM-8000 testing
-- From: Leskep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:55 AM To: Dmitry [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Digitalradio [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob ZL1BAD [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John VE5MU Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RFSM-8000 testing Hi Dmitry At the moment we have nil conditions between North America, Europe and Australia on 20m band and I dont expect this condition to change much for quite some time - James VK2JN and some of his Sydney mates are doing some testing with both RFSM8000 and Pactor 3 - I will see if I can get the results of these tests for you The only other station I hear regularly on 14109.5 is Bob ZL1BAD in New Zealand using RFSM8000 but he is only using the older .519 Version at max speed 2666 - I will see if I can get Bob to ask you for a RADIOAMATEUR test licence and also get him to upgrade to the latest version My station with server enabled runs on 14109.5 from about 2200 utc to 0400 utc daily - but only with .wav beacon at 15 minute intervals and beam is long path to Europe/New Zealand VK2DSG DURI RFSM8K SERVER Regards Les VK2DSG -- From: Dmitry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:03 AM To: Leskep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RFSM-8000 testing Hello Les. Demetre SV1UY wrote on digital group: Hi all, Is anyone in Europe interested in making tests with RFSM-8000? I am QRV some times on 14.109,5 calling CQ RFSM and in Server Mode. If anyone is interested please let know so that we can arrange a SKED. 73 de Demetre SV1UY Demetre has the Pactor-III. We'd like Demetre to compare Pactor-III this RFSM-8000. Help him to do this. best regards, Dmitry. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
