Re: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia vs. RTTY vs. PSK & spectrum efficiency
I think the key to making it really fly would be to hold some short sprint contests using PSK63 only. That way you could get a lot of guys to try it without a big commitment of time and effort. As it gains acceptance thru that and word of mouth, it could be added as an optional mode in more mainstream contests. Hold some sprints and talk it up on the email reflectors and it stands a chance... Ty K3MM Jul 20, 2010 07:10:30 PM, digitalradio@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > PSK63 was developed as an intended RTTY contesting mode replacement, >not for conversation. PSK31 is too slow for contesting and has a preamble and >a >postamble that slows turnovers down, so the idea was that 100 wpm PSK63 would, >overall, including faster turnovers than PSK31, be as fast as RTTY for contest >exchanges, and contesters would benefit from less power needed, panoramic >reception, >less crowding, and faster synchronization. In the contesting world, a rapid >exchange >and turnover is more important than a faster typing speed. Peter Martinez >designed PSK31 >for ragchewing and so selected 50 wpm as fast enough for conversation for most >typists. > > Even though Don, AA5AU, a big-time winner of RTTY contests, said he was just >"blown away" about the possibility of PSK63 for contesting when I showed it to >him, I was unable to get it implemented into WriteLog, as the author took a >"chicken >and egg" approach in which he said he would not add PSK63 to WriteLog until it >became popular for contesting! Since WriteLog is so popular with contest >winners, >and did not support PSK63, the mode never took off, except in Europe. > > What might help would be for someone to convince the contest managers to do >something like adding a multiplier for PSK63 contacts, or perhaps some other >acceptable >incentive, to make it worthwhile to use PSK63 for contests. > > Everybody would win, because so many PSK63 signals can fit into the space >of one RTTY signal, and with panoramic displays, you get a list of callsigns >to >select from all presented to you, and can even highlight zones or callsign >areas >you need for multipliers, etc.. > > 73, Skip KH6TY > > On 7/20/2010 7:03 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: > > > - Original Message > From: g4ilo > To: mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com"; target="_blank" class=" >parsedEmail">digitalradio@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 4:29:15 AM > Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia vs. RTTY vs. PSK & spectrum efficiency > > Just because a mode is better doesn't mean that people will want to use it, > > though, and I guess both RTTY and PSK31 are so established now that you'll >never > persuade people to give them up. > > Julian, G4ILO > > > > While rtty can be replaced by other modes, they will not run on the 50 plus >old > mechanical printers and the demodulators that go with them. Just as some >like > to run AM on the ham bands. Not that good of a use of bandwidth, but just > > something to play with that many enjoy. I doubt that many >hams that run the > digital modes can really type very fast and depend on the micros in the > > programs. For the ones doing it in real time, psk31 probably has enough >speed. > >
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Olivia vs. RTTY vs. PSK & spectrum efficiency
The IMD shouldnt be a significant problem unless something is overdriven. However, you see that with PSK31 and to a lesser extent RTTY fairly often on the bands, although most of what i see is 60 cycle hum and audio harmonics related to that, rather than just pure overdrive. AFSK, etc., is the way to go if you can keep it clean (vs FSK). PSK31 is too slow for contesting, so the first shift required is to PSK63. 73, Ty K3MM Jul 20, 2010 04:00:06 AM, digitalradio@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, k...@... wrote: > > > > Quite frankly, RTTY could easily be replaced with PSK63 as the prime > > digital >contest mode. However, many PSK operators are so clueless and often downright >rude >when it comes to contests that its an extremely uphill battle. We could fit a >lot >more PSK63 signals on the band than RTTY... > > > > It would be interesting to see what happened if a semi-major RTTY contest >was moved to PSK63 only. > > > > Agreed, though the IMD might be a problem, especially as many RTTY contesters >use class C amps. Of course, you could also argue that they wouldn't need to >use >as much power... > > As a not completely unrelated aside, a few of us have been helping to test >G4HYG's APRS Messenger software which at the moment is an experiment to find >an >alternative publicly documented mode to FSK300 packet that gives better >performance >on the HF bands. We had been using PSK63 but very recently have been trying >the >GMSK modes (63, 125 and 250) which are implemented in the MMVARI free software. > > I don't know (and don't at the moment have time to find out) what exactly the >technical differences are between PSK and GMSK but the performance seems to be >even >better, and apparently it doesn't have the amplitude variations that cause IMD >products >when using PSK. > > Just because a mode is better doesn't mean that people will want to use it, >though, and I guess both RTTY and PSK31 are so established now that you'll >never >persuade people to give them up. > > Julian, G4ILO > >
[digitalradio] Olivia vs. RTTY vs. PSK & spectrum efficiency
I'm sure no one purposefully opened fire on your frequency. NAQP contest is a rapid-fire sprint-like contest with lots of passing/QSY's. It's also likely that whoever started the CQ didnt hear you or the station you were working at the time. Olivia uses a lot of bandwidth for it's speed and is an extremely weak-signal mode. That's great for what it is, but fairly incompatible with a crowded band where efficiency is required. Quite frankly, RTTY could easily be replaced with PSK63 as the prime digital contest mode. However, many PSK operators are so clueless and often downright rude when it comes to contests that its an extremely uphill battle. We could fit a lot more PSK63 signals on the band than RTTY... It would be interesting to see what happened if a semi-major RTTY contest was moved to PSK63 only. 73, Ty K3MM Jul 18, 2010 11:28:11 AM, digitalradio@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > I had 3 interruptions from 3 different stations during an Oliva 8/500 net last >night on 80m within about a 5 minutes timespan. > > And, BTW, I know for damn sure they could see and hear my signal as I > switched >to RTTY at 50w on all stations and repeated "the frequency is in use" >until the moved. > > I don't think anyone should suggest limiting to contests to fixed > frequencies, >but it damn sure would be nice if some of the mindless RTTY contesters would >start >showing some common courtesy by listening a second or two before stomping on >QSO's >in progress. > > -Dave, KB3FXI > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "g4ilo" wrote: > > > > And the hundreds of people who take part in the major RTTY contests would >all operate on three fixed frequencies how, exactly? > > > > Julian, G4ILO > > > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Steinar Aanesland wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, "old" modes like rtty has its charm, but as the ultimate >contest > > > mode it makes more trouble for the ham community when it is flooding >the > > > hole band, than "fix frequency" modes like ROS. > > > > > > The only problem with ROS is its developer, with his strange behavior. > > > > > > la5vna Steinar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18.07.2010 06:10, la7um wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow Steinar. This really tells the true story about your (and >mine) > > > love for RTTY (stoneage/museum,power wasting,polluting KW) KAANTEST > > > MODE. TTY was created for cables, not radio, I believe. Hi. > > > > la7um Finn > > > > > > > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Steinar Aanesland wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Despite the massive criticism, this fascinating ROS guy >has now released > > > >> a new version of his software. > > > >> > > > >> http://rosmodem.wordpress.com/ > > > >> > > > >> Sorry Buddy, but I have to admit, I find ROS more interesting >than > > > >> anachronistic contest mode like RTTY. > > > >> > > > >> la5vna Steinar > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 14.07.2010 22:59, F.R. Ashley wrote: > > > >>> Whats so dang fantastic about ROS anyway, that it deserves >pages and > > > >> pages > > > >>> of emails about it? Remember that other new digital >mode a few months > > > >> ago, > > > >>> and how great it was, or have you forgotten abouit it >already? > > > >>> > > > >>> 73 Buddy WB4M > > > >>> RTTY forever > > > >>> > > > >>> - Original Message - > > > >>> From: "Steinar Aanesland" > > > >>> To: "* Digitalradio" ; "* > > > >> ROSDIGITALMODEMGROU" > > > >>> > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:45 PM > > > >>> Subject: [digitalradio] ROS Returns > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> ROS v4.7.0 Beta is out.. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> http://rosmodem.wordpress.com/ > > > >>>> > > > >>>> S > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html > > > >>>> Chat, Skeds, and "Spots" all in one (resize >to suit) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
[digitalradio] ARRL Field Day this weekend - W3AO EU area activity hours
This weekend is the ARRL Field Day which starts at 18Z on Saturday the 26th and ends by 21Z on Sunday. Please look for stations signing "FD" and give them a QSO! Please spot everyone you can, especially on digital and SSB modes. Our group at W3AO, sponsored by Potomac Valley and Columbia Amateur Radio Clubs, would like to invite you work us on any and all modes and bands! For digital QSOs only, we will be making a special effort at W3AO in Maryland to beam Northeast towards Europe on 20 meters and possibly 15M to work DX Saturday night the 26th at 2100Z until about 2300Z if activity warrants it. I may also try 40M about 0100Z to 0300Z. We will be on RTTY, BPSK31, and perhaps a little BPSK63. Look for our announcement of QSX on other bands and modes. We will be all bands, all modes, multi-multi. Basic exchange is the number of transmitters plus a category letter. DX Home stations running on commercial power will sign "1D DX" (anyone outside of US or Canada) . US/Canada will fill the QTH with their ARRL/RAC Section. Full rules are at http://www.arrl.org/field-day . Thanks! Ty K3MM
