[digitalradio] ALE400 and CCW w/LotW and eQSL?
Hello, I just made my first ALE400 and CCW QSO today but when I went to sync with both LotW and eQSL I received errors about unknown modes. I logged them as ALE400 and CCW. Any thoughts on how to properly log and report these QSOs? Thanks, Jeremy KB8LFA
[digitalradio] ALE400 Experiment-Development of Standard Calling Mode: NAN NETWORK
Hello Andy and all, For about the Split mode. There is an option in the Trancseiver window. About Multipsk and ALE refer to the Tony's paper, below. 73 Patrick Multipsk ALE-400 ARQ FAE A Quick Start Guide by Anthony Bombardiere, K2MO Patrick Lindecker, F6CTE is the author of the digital mode software Multipsk. His program includes a variety standard sound card modes as well as a few that he created himself. One that stands out from the crowd is called ALE400 ARQ FAE. As the name implies, it was developed for Automatic Link Establishment; a mode which is used to automatically select the best link between two stations by scanning and signaling specific channels within the HF spectrum. Although intended for Automatic Link Establishment, a small group of us started experimenting with Patrick's ALE-400 ARQ FAE using it as a stand-alone keyboard chat-mode. What we found was a robust mode with good sensitivity, combined with a specialized ARQ that allows it to run error-free. So how does it work? With conventional keyboard modes such as RTTY or PSK31, the receiving station must wait until the other station un-keys before he or she gets a chance to respond. In the interim, the band can change causing a loss of data during a lengthy key-down. The sending station would have no idea since there's no way to know, but with ALE-400 ARQ, there's a second text window that monitors outgoing throughput letting the sending station know if the message is getting through. The ALE-400 ARQ FAE mode operates more like a pseudo full-duplex system where each station types at the same time while the mode automatically exchanges data in 6-to-7 second intervals. The data is sent at approximately 80 words-per-minute during a bilateral exchange and 60 words-per-minute one-way. The advantages over conentional chat-modes are pretty obvious; one is that there is no need to wait for the other station to un-key in order to change the subject or inject a quick comment since the change-over happens in a matter of few seonds. The other advantage is that because the exchange takes place so often, it gives the ARQ a chance to check for errors that may occur as the band changes. The ARQ is responsible for keeping the text error-free. The Soft ARQ Memory developed by Patrick works to reduce the number of repeats and improve throughput. The FAE or Fast Acknowledgement Exchange allows the process to happen quickly. Patrick explains how this Soft ARQ Memory works: Soft ARQ memory is used to limit the number of retries due to noise (each erroneous frame is used to determine the original frame). This ARQ memory begins to work only in case of two received erroneous frames. The general principle of ARQ memory is to average erroneous frames which leads to increasing the S/N ratio. Consequently, the averaged frame is better than each of both received frames. For example, if both of the erroneous frames has one error, averaging two frames will lead to a gain of 3 dB in S/N ratio and, with a great probability, will have an averaged frame without error. In general, it is sufficient to average two and, more rarely three frames. Patrick, Lindecker, F6CTE Another unique feature about ALE-400 is the ability to send mail to the Multipsk Mailbox while in chat mode with another station. The station sending the mail message will still be able to see incoming text from the other party so one-way keyboarding is still possible during the mail transfer; two-way keyboarding resumes once the message transfer is completed. Patrick's ALE-400 ARQ FAE has all the features of the standard ALE (Automatic Link Establishment) software including sounding, messaging and link quality analysis. At approximately 400Hz bandwidth, ALE-400 is also spectrum-friendly running 50 baud with a carrier spacing of 50Hz. A word about RSID One of the most useful features for digital mode operation is the RSID or Reed Solomon Identifier. Developed by Patrick Lindecker, this short MFSK identifier is sent automatically before the start of a digital mode transmission and is then decoded by other stations letting them know which mode is in use. Multipsk will automatically switch to the correct mode once the RSID transmission is detected within the receivers pass band. What RSID does is take the guess work out of trying to figure out which mode is being transmitted. Many sound very much alike so they are not easily identified by sight and sound. In addition to a long list of familiar sound card modes, Multipsk includes some not-so-familiar like PAX, PSK10 and a narrow-band MFSK mode called VOICE named for it's ability to vocalize or spell-out incoming text through the sound cards speakers I've complied a Quick Start Guide that should hopefully get you up and running with Multipsk and the ALE-400 FAE-ARQ chat-mode. Special thanks to Patrick Lindecker (F6CTE). 73, Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE400 Experiment-Development of Standard Calling Mode: NAN NETWORK
Further to our earlier conversation about using many of the concepts in ALE networks for establishing digital mode QSOs, this weekend I will be using ALE technology to scan the following frequencies USB VFO frequencies plus standard ALE center frequency of 1625Hz. 3583 10143 14073 18103 24923 28123 (please check the band plan in your area to make sure the above are allowed) Using ALE 400 (NOT standard ALE). This mode is supported in free versions of Multipsk. AlLE 400 is 50 bauds instead of 125 bauds in standard ALE and in a 400 Hz bandwidth instead of 2000 Hz. Therefor it fits with most region's digital band plans for narrow modes The idea is this, anyone looking for a QSO in a digital mode other than PSK31, RTTY, or JT65A uses ALE400. Sound or CQ in ALE400 and stations scanning will hear your. If a station that hears you wants to work you, they will call you back in ALE400 and then the 2 of you can negotiate where to stay in ALE400 or move to another mode better suited to the conditions. To facilitate easier choices, the suggested alternatives are. path between to ALE400 stations is VERY good -move to PSK 63 or 125 path between to ALE400 stations is OK stay with ALE 400 path between to ALE400 stations is poor/marginal move to Olivia 500/16 General principles: 1. Listen first, always make sure frequency is not in use 2. No unattended transmissions/soundings. 3. Use narrow digital modes wherever possible 4. Use 30 second soundings/CQs so that people scanning multiple frequencies can hear you 5. When scanning, make sure your scans are less than 30 seconds in duration 6. If QSYing once a contact is made (that is optional) please avoid standard WSPR/JT65A/QTSs frequencies down 500 hz may be sufficient. 7. Use ALE MAIL on above standard frequencies, if desired. It may seem odd to start a campaign for a standard calling mode via use of a mode that only exists in one software package (multipsk). I agree, However, using other modes with ALE-type concepts seemed even more odd: when a narrow ALE already existed. Hopefully other applications like DM780 or FLdigo will incorporate ALE400 in the future. Meanwhile, if you have Multipsk and are looking for a none-PSK63 non-RTTY, non-HT, QSO, join the NAN (Narrow ALE Network ) on 3583 10143 14073 18103, 24923, 28123
[digitalradio] ALE400 20M
at 1700Z calling CQ on 14074 very strong European stations on 20M John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400
On 14093 as of 0400UTC , here until 1500 or later. please try a connect John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400-ARQ-FAE
Hi all, I am monitoring 14.093 Try to connect and leave a message if I am not with my radio. 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400-ARQ-FAE
Hi all, I am monitoring 14.093 Try to connect and leave a message if I am not with my radio. 73 de LA5VNA Steinar Hello Dear Steinar, I sent you several mail messages this afternoon running Multipsk ALE400. All went through just fine even with QSB / QRM - no repeats - 100 word Pangram took just 2 minutes. ALE-400 is a remarkable mode. See below for Link Quality Analisys. Thanks Steinar, Tony -K2MO [End of TX] AMD message THIS IS to LA5VNA [Call] [from LA5VNA ] [to K2MO ] [my BER=30 + SINAD=16] (his BER=30 + SINAD=08) [End of TX] (call) acknowledgment to LA5VNA
[digitalradio] ALE400
Listening on 10141.5, leave a message if I am not around last night had a weak connect with CO2JA, Jose, and this morning, right at Grey line, Steinar , LA5VNA connected with what sounded like a good signal, but was too slow to get to the radio room. ALE400 weak signal performance is greatly improved. great work Patrick, thanks from all of us John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400
Back on 14093.0 currently very weak ALE400 sigs on there. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
John, OK John - hope to see you there - thanks. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:49 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing moved up and just before I left saw u on 14106. Will stay on 14106 until further notice..will be around tomorrow afternoon for QSO. May be over doing some work on EOC John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:24 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing John, VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available this evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat? Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE400 testing
at 1600UTC, VE5EOC on 10141.5. VE5MU on 14078.0 , both running ALE400 1625hz center please try a connect or three john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 01:04:01PM -0600, John Bradley wrote: using the selective call function under Auxillary Functions, enter my call (VE5MU) on your station list, and sue selective call to connect. Wow! I hadn't realized that Canada was so litigious. Thanks, John. I learned something about the program function from your note. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
ROFLMAO ! good one!! amazing what a typo can do 73's John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mikea Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:09 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 01:04:01PM -0600, John Bradley wrote: using the selective call function under Auxillary Functions, enter my call (VE5MU) on your station list, and sue selective call to connect. Wow! I hadn't realized that Canada was so litigious. Thanks, John. I learned something about the program function from your note. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx mailto:mikea%40mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
John, VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available this evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat? Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
moved up and just before I left saw u on 14106. Will stay on 14106 until further notice..will be around tomorrow afternoon for QSO. May be over doing some work on EOC John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:24 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing John, VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available this evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat? Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE400 quick guide - Last Multipsk test version
Hello Tony and all, Thanks Tony for the nice quick guide. For information, the last Multipsk test version (best to use for ALE400) is: http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_24_09_2009.ZIP 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: obrienaj andrewob...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Saturday/Sunday WINMOR-ALE-FLARQ Experiment --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Tony d...@... wrote: Andy, I'll be QRV ALE-400 starting this evening (Friday) and the rest of the weekend on 20 meters. I've tested mail transfers with the mode many times; it will run 200 bytes / minute with moderate signals. A 100 word text message will usually run 2 minutes; start to finish. Thanks for the ALE400 quick guide, I needed it. Andy K3UK Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] ALE400 - 14MHz today 9/23.
Auto-Scanning 14074 14094 in ALE400 mode.Set to respond to callsign or group calls. de Rich/N2JR FM18
[digitalradio] ALE400
testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
John, See you on 14074.0 for quick test? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net To: multi...@yahoogroups.com; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC John VE5MU
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400
QSY to 14074 @ 2300utc John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:51 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Cc: John Bradley Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 John, See you on 14074.0 for quick test? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net To: multi...@yahoogroups.com mailto:multipsk%40yahoogroups.com ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 Beta Version
Moved to 10141.5 , 1625hz center for further testing. Feel free to connect (1800UTC 17Sept) have been good signals from Europe on 30M recently John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 testing 20M
Tony, K2MO and myself had a good test session with ALE 400 most recent beta test version (http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_15_09_2009.ZIP) yesterday. Thanks to Tony, we found the following results Couple of points: . Stations are 1600miles or 2700km apart . K2MO runs a yagi, VE5MU a Zepp. . Both stations were able to reduce power to 400mw (K2MO) and 5 watts (MU) and still able to transfer data, even though at times either station could not be audibly heard. test messages were getting through with repeats. . Some collisions occurred but were immediately corrected by either station sending RSID. Difficult to induce collisions, even at low power. Software did what it was supposed to. . Both stations running 500hz filters . W1AW then came up with the evening RTTY/PSK bulletin broadcast. The low side of the RTTY broadcast was less than 100hz from the ALE400 signal. K2MO could hear W1AW even though the station is about 100 miles from his QTH. (ground wave) Without the filter, W1AW was 40db over S9 at VE5MU location. . K2MO and VE5MU will still able to transfer data, at 100Watts, despite extreme QRM from W1AW. Eventually moved up 1Khz and carried on. Conclusions . ALE400 in the latest form works well to avoid and correct collisions. . The software allows working into the noise much better than earlier versions VE5MU and VE5EOC are still listening on 14093.0 and are available for a connect John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 software
What program are you guys using to run ALE400? I may give this mode a shot. Bob - K3MQ
[digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon
beaconing 2 minute intervals on 14093.0 dial until Z Sept14 john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074 now
Hi all, I am calling cq in ale400 arq mode on 14.074 now. Try to connect to me:) 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
[digitalradio] ALE400 30M
On 10145.5 for the next 14 hours. Please try a connect, @3.30Z Sept 11 John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 30M
I am not familiar with the US band plan , but want to set up on 30M with an ALE400 station and leave it parked there for awhile for testing. Any suggestions for a frequency? Propagation on 30M has bee good over the past while, judging by the results on WSPR John VE5MU/VE5EOC
[digitalradio] ALE400 - frequencies
Hello Matt, If you click on the QRGs button, you have all the suggested frequencies for all the Multipsk modes. For example, for ALE400: ALE400 (USB) Below is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz). The complete list of frequencies is on http://hflink.com/ale400. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Matt Gregory To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Hi Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering what are the calling freq? Matt kc2pua
[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074 now
Hi all, I am calling cq in ale400 arq mode on 14.074 now. Try to connect to me:) 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
[digitalradio] ALE400
Hi Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering what are the calling freq? Matt kc2pua
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Matt, Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering what are the calling freq? Matt kc2pua There are a handful of stations currently active on 14074.0 USB. The bandwidth is approximately 400Hz. Let us know if you need any tips on working ALE-400. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Matt Gregory kc2...@rocketmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Hi
[digitalradio] ALE400 - repetitive disconnexion
Hello Thomas, When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. As this frequency (40-50 times) is not normal, I think there is another problem. Hypothesis: I suppose that you want to do a QSO, have clicked on ARQ FAE and CQ and a Ham has done the connection with your station. Note: if you are the Master (the one who initiates the QSO), it is better to check Master in the Mode box, this to come back to your initial AF frequency and to avoid a drift in frequency. I list below the possible problems: * sound card sampling frequency not adjusted...solution: Adjustments menu, click on Determination..., * AF level too low (10 %) as displayed in a caption to the left of the Mode panel: you must target about 30 to 50 % (not critical) using the mixer. Possibly , you can sample in 16 bits (you will win about 2 or 3 bits in fact due to noise): Adjustments menu, click on AF level However, the most robust, CPU economic and simple is to work on 8 bits. * your computer must be fast (1000 MHz) not to introduce big CPU delays, * to switch XCVR, prefer direct control or CAT system. With VOX, the introduced delay (VOX+XCVR) must be checked (above 130 ms there is a problem for ALE400), * of course, the AF level to the XCVR must be adjusted (not to overload the XCVR or not to be close to the noise), but it is not different from any other mode. * Possibly, unclick the AFC (in case of big QRM (RTTY for example) on your frequency). For procedures, refer to: http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc http://f6cte.free.fr/The_ARQ_FAE_beacon_easy_with_Multipsk.doc I hope this helps a bit. Note: about this problem, it would be better to continue on the Multipsk Yahoo group. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a moment got the signal back without further collisions. Seemed to work well for us. Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has any effect, found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP john VE5MU Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
I think most would interpret Only if they are ...well...forget it On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I think most would interpret when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20 over signal as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during just one of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall. Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to get it working; let us know what you find. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Only if they are ...well...forget it Cat got your tongue Trip? Tony -K2MO I think most would interpret Only if they are ...well...forget it On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I think most would interpret when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20 over signal as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during just one of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall. Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to get it working; let us know what you find. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
Danny, What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up Danny Douglas N7DC That's a good question... I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than stellar. I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward digital. Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
Where is there Tony? HI. And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not like they just disappear on this end. Looks like the special digital modes simply are not being passed thru the network. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up Danny Douglas N7DC That's a good question... I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than stellar. I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward digital. Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that serious DXers and cluster owners frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really DX. Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector would indeed be the best tool. Andy On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLASn...@comcast.net wrote: Where is there Tony? HI. And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not like they just disappear on this end. Looks like the special digital modes simply are not being passed thru the network. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up Danny Douglas N7DC That's a good question... I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than stellar. I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward digital. Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. Tony -K2MO -- Andy
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
That me be true, but I have seen several stateside MFSK and many PSK spots on the clusters. The next thought is a digital cluster which could be used with spot collector? Those that then wanted any digital modes/states or otherwise, could load that one up and see the spots, and they would not particular leak out to other clusters. I simply do not have room on the screen for even more windows. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that serious DXers and cluster owners frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really DX. Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector would indeed be the best tool. Andy On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLASn...@comcast.net wrote: Where is there Tony? HI. And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not like they just disappear on this end. Looks like the special digital modes simply are not being passed thru the network. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up Danny Douglas N7DC That's a good question... I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than stellar. I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward digital. Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. Tony -K2MO -- Andy
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
Exactly what we need. Either would do well with Spotcollector, but I dont know about those who use other spotting sofware at their own station (such as MIXW, etc.) I am just now getting into using MultiPSK and it works in conjunction with the DXLab stuff, so a lot of potential customers there, as well as those who use WnWarbler. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC I ran such a cluster for a few years , before I opened the sked page. I was running WinCluster. I do have the bandwidth to run a cluster again but want to avoid the cost of some of the better cluster software. It would need to be a digital cluster that does not propagate spots to other clusters. Either that or have something like Hamspots' present cluster/pskreporter page configurable via Telnet to Spotcollector. That way, digital mode enthusiasts could take full advantage of Spotcollector's filters and collect from Hamspots PLUS the general DX Cluster world Andy K3UK On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:30 PM, DANNY DOUGLASn...@comcast.net wrote: That me be true, but I have seen several stateside MFSK and many PSK spots on the clusters. The next thought is a digital cluster which could be used with spot collector? Those that then wanted any digital modes/states or otherwise, could load that one up and see the spots, and they would not particular leak out to other clusters. I simply do not have room on the screen for even more windows. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that serious DXers and cluster owners frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really DX. Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector would indeed be the best tool. Andy On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLASn...@comcast.net wrote: Where is there Tony? HI. And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not like they just disappear on this end. Looks like the special digital modes simply are not being passed thru the network. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC Danny, What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up Danny Douglas N7DC That's a good question... I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
John, Yes, in the big majority of QSOs, it is rare to find a long period of deep QSB. However... But to leave a message to an ARQ FAE beacon (connection-transmission-disconnection), this problem does not appear, except if the message carries a relatively big file, which will take much time to be transmitted. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; multi...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a moment got the signal back without further collisions. Seemed to work well for us. Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has any effect, found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not. I have only recently downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the modes, thru working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and have used PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY. I have three different spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see anything beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes. So guys - if you are on, or copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I sometimes see the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about them. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Didnt you know Danny,,, There are hundreds of users on ALE400... Making thousands of QSO's every day. AND... none of them EVERY have a problem :) Enjoy Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: DANNY DOUGLAS To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not. I have only recently downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the modes, thru working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and have used PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY. I have three different spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see anything beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes. So guys - if you are on, or copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I sometimes see the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about them. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
EVERmy bad - Original Message - From: DANNY DOUGLAS To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network? I would gladly give some of them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not. I have only recently downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the modes, thru working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and have used PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY. I have three different spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see anything beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes. So guys - if you are on, or copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I sometimes see the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about them. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh
[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074
great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z John Ve5mu
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Trip, Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I think most would interpret when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20 over signal as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during just one of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall. Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to get it working; let us know what you find. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 ***If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways*** 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many times during 1 QSO..I would give up.. Dont ya think Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I have only been using this mode from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and puters.. With no less than 10-15 other users. I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that Cracker Jack Box Its me, its not really happining.. I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this problemRight?? Just let it go...I have. End of thread. 73 de Trip - KT4WO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trip, Its not a unique problem. KT4WO Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just too weak. If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on. We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel? Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than another. You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate. Thanks, Tony -K2MO Its not a unique problem. KT4WO On 8/31/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074
John (VE5MU) great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z Nice to meet Terry (VE5TLW) on ALE-400. Thank you both for the nice contacts and good luck with VE5EOC. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net To: multi...@yahoogroups.com; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:05 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074 great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z John Ve5mu
[digitalradio] ALE400
I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a moment got the signal back without further collisions. Seemed to work well for us. Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has any effect, found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a moment got the signal back without further collisions. Seemed to work well for us. Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has any effect, found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it???
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. That is excessive Thomas. I've had many lengthy ALE-400 QSO's without any sync problems. In fact, John (VE5MU) and I recently tried to force the mode out-of-sync without success. I think you may have a problem with your setup and the first place I'd look is VOX delay. The TX/RX turn around time with ALE-400 is probably less than 1/2 second so if the VOX delay is long enough, it will cut-off a portion of the incoming signal causing repeats and sync issues. What kind of rig / interface are you using? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a moment got the signal back without further collisions. Seemed to work well for us. Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has any effect, found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP john VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
BTW...its not Thomas... name is Trip...Thomas is my dad..lol Trip - KT4WO On 8/30/09, Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com wrote: w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Trip, Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 w4pgh k3gau n4wi wa9hcz ni9y n9fdf k9vu wb8rol ai4cm Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work) Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh) No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost 100 bucks on...lol AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy. MultiPSK is the ONLY digi software I have paid for...and that says alot for me... Im cheap!!...LOL If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could re-sync. One gud static crash and it can lose sync. Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried everything...been there, done that kinda thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was just too much... and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST error free soundcard mode out there!! KT4WO On 8/30/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Thomas, W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months Just a thought here... Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Thomas Carswell Jr. kt4w...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30 Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes... Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have been on some type of digi mode for the last 18 years. What I see as a major problem.. you may not...thats cool... but W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me. The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna, computer...or me..LOL Its great ya'll are not having the issue too offten. But ...When hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few times...they will just switch modes and not look back. KT4WO On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher sho...@probikekit.com wrote: Trip, You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the timing of FAE400. I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are really buried in noise. I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have noticed a major issue like this from the outset. One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on? 73 Sholto K7TMG Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote: Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue is not just a one time thing... and not just on QRP. Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue. When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me its not major. I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops. BTW..the new PSK-Packet has the same problem. KT4WO On 8/30/09, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel. net mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net wrote: I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a slottime or some random timer... I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400. Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become mainstream I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out. So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting him to address this.??!!??! !?? Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave sees this is a problem, Patrick will fix it??? Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] ALE400 testing
Both VE5EOC and VE5MU are currently listening on 14074, ALE400. Both stations are in DO70QK, about 2km apart. Both stations are available for connect, and both stations will respond to ARES as a group call (enter ARES on the call list, push call button) Please send mail. Open to suggestions as to a frequency on 80m or 40m for one of the above stations. VE5EOC will operate 24/7 over the next few days, with a power of 50watts. VE5MU will be monitoring when the operator is not chasing other modes John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400
now that the dah-dee-dah -dee dee dah dah's have all gone away, am listening on 14074 dial @ 1625 hz . copied N9DSJ and K3MO last night.. you can connect to me even if I am not in front of the rig, also will respond to an ARES net call. Give it a try. Am on now (2100Z ) to probably 0400Z or later since I tend to leave the rig on ready for response. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
I am probably too close to John on 20 meters as I never have any luck connecting. I am calling CQ and monitoring 14.074 with FAE400 right now (2115Z) and will try and have it on for a few hours when I am not experimenting with PSKmail_server. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: now that the dah-dee-dah –dee dee dah dah’s have all gone away, am listening on 14074 dial @ 1625 hz . copied N9DSJ and K3MO last night…… you can connect to me even if I am not in front of the rig, also will respond to an ARES net call. Give it a try. Am on now (2100Z ) to probably 0400Z or later since I tend to leave the rig on ready for response. John VE5MU Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] ALE400
This mode used as ALE is much superior to PC-ALE since you can determine if the path is there by sounding, and then do a connect to pass traffic using the same software. The other station can be unattended in this process. ALE141 also works well in exactly the same manner, no difference in operation, just a little faster throughput, and a little less sensitivity than ALE400 John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging
For several reasons we did not emulate the full forwarding syntax of the BBS world, as it really starts to increase the scope as you get into store forward. Once you accept a message, you own it, including communicating failure back to the initiating session. Big responsibility. So by design bbslink is stateless. The message handoff either succeeds immediately, or it fails. And the initiating station knows either way. It's the only safe way, as there is no guarantee that you will ever be able to reach the sending station again if the message fails, etc. We also chose not to duplicate existing messaging infrastructure. Instead, we decided to focus on leveraging the 3 most common messaging gateways encountered in the ham world. (SMTP, WL2K, F6FBB/W0RLI) Doing so bridges networks, rather than fragmenting the amateur community further. Common message systems are a big win, separate ones slowly die. (Genie, AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, teletext, etc) I am not technically gifted in any way, shape or form. I am heavily involved in the art of emergency planning and communications plans. Let me paint a little scenario for you: A small community (3000) 100 miles from the nearest major center has been sideswiped by a twister, and has lost communications with the rest of the world VHF down, cell towers down and telephone exchange damaged. Fire EMS and Police have responded, using tactical voice comms systems still working , or supported by ARES on a wide area 2M repeater The local hospital, which also house the community ECC (Emergency Co-ordination Center) has numerous casualties. all responding agencies require additional materials, and as recovery phase starts, Salvation Army and Red Cross need to pass health and welfare traffic. Tactical voice comms are at 100% capacity by the responding agencies, and will be close to 100% over the next few operational periods. Other working systems in the area (ie utilities)are also running close to 100%. ARES has responded with a command unit which has HF data capability. This could include a WIFI router so that laptops could be included from the local EOC. This command unit would work back into an EOC with data and internet connections. ARES would be tasked with passing text messages, destined both for the EOC and to other outside agencies and base hospitals. WL2K is an option , other SMTP sound card modes. at higher speeds would also work, such as RFSM8000. What would be our non VHF options? John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging
Based on what I know, for SMTP, JNOS may be an option at less than 300 baud, i.e., 100-110 baud or PAX, using MultiPSK as soundcard modem. I have not tested any of it yet. I have had no time and possibilities to test it so far. JNOS can use FBB compression or LZW compressed SMTP on any of its radio ports using KISS protocol to connect to a TNC. I ran both FBB and JNOS simultaneously for several years sharing the same TNC under MSDOS and Linux, and HF mail using compressed FBB protocol or LZW compressed SMTP worked, even when painfully slow, at 300 baud on a shared forwarding frequency. Even FTP worked (I do not remember if it could be compressed as well) on HF. It is not theoretical. JNOS networking works on HF with the known 300 baud weaknesses. How well does it work really matters when nothing else is available? Certainly, that may be an option in an unconnected scenario. I have also read some papers (which are not recent ones) mentioning the possibility of using JNOS for armed forces communications. I believe it should be tried out. Configuring JNOS is not easy, it is command line oriented and learning its options is a steep process not suited for the faint of heart, because along its history, it has been developed and maintained by people familiar with Unix, networking and text mode consoles in a spartan command line environment. Working options may be saved in a configuration file that it reads at the start up. One almost miraculous option it has is the maxwait parameter. It limits the usual TCPIP exponential backoff to a value of your choice (not arbitrary, it basically depends on the signalling speed and channel reliability or congestion), indispensable when running TCPIP on a radio link and not on a high speed, less noisy, wired environment. Other TCPIP implementations fail without this kludge, particularly, on HF radio. Even Linux with its native TCPIP stack is subject to fail as well. JNOS packet stack is better crafted than the Linux AX.25 support. Alan is right, maybe a kludge between an AX.25 stack and other modes could be devised, but it is not simple. If other sound card modes work at the same speed, why wouldn't PAX or slow packet work? APRS has been tested so far with slower than 300 baud speeds and has worked, even with the nowadays prevalent bad HF propagation. Frugality in message content is *INDISPENSABLE*. Compression is your friend. In a bandwidth limited radio channel, concise, short, text messages are preferable to more voluminous file formats (.doc, .xls, .bmp, etc). If that is not acceptable, then, who needs that should procure a wideband VSAT link. 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley wrote: What would be our non VHF options? John VE5MU VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging
John Bradley wrote: ARES has responded with a command unit which has HF data capability. This could include a WIFI router so that laptops could be included from the local EOC. This command unit would work back into an EOC with data and internet connections. ARES would be tasked with passing text messages, destined both for the EOC and to other outside agencies and base hospitals. WL2K is an option , other SMTP sound card modes. at higher speeds would also work, such as RFSM8000. What would be our non VHF options? Several answers: 1) It's going to sound like Heresy, but paclink, airmail, and WL2K is specifically designed for your scenario, works now, and with an SCS P3 modem (expensive proprietary as it is) is very hard to beat. Essentially an off the shelf solution. Laptops, wireless, auto gateway to HF, and to the target recipient over the HF Horizon. But there are many who cannot or don't want to play SCS P3 modem. Which leads to: 2) Your command unit HF control operator (you have one, don't you) takes the traffic aggregated by the jnos or linux box, and initiates into the HFLink system using ALE. Can send direct to an SMTP address, or into the WL2K system. Yep, it's a manual cut paste right now into pc-ale on the sending end, but it works. And there are some who say all traffic should be hand entered. (I'm not one of them). PC-ALE has hooks for drop box type operation, and we have had plans for similar in marsale. I'm sure this won't satisfy you, but having an HF drop box (in any) program does not address the local (command unit) end of the handoff. HFLink.net already delivers message traffic via HF from multiple HW radios + the ALE variants. Not perfect, I have a nasty bug to chase down which impacts some multi-line DBM messages, but we are headed there. 3) So you want to bridge two sites not using the internet? Same deal. There is no restriction that bbslink has to run on the Internet. You can run it on the local lan in your two command vans. SMTP is SMTP. Your JNOS instance coresident with bbslink does the handoff/gateway to your laptops. 4) You dis single line messages quite frequently, but there is lot's of traffic flying around on APRS. Same concept with ALE AMD's, and we look to allow interoperation between the two. AMD's get through when other stuff does not. Nope, it won't be the proverbial my served agency wants to send a 600k powerpoint, nothing else is acceptable solution, but about a zillion 170 character SMS messages are sent in the cellular system each month. Yep, 90% are kids, but it's a useful medium even with restrictions. Nothing in your scenario justifies creating (yet another) ham focused messaging layer. Between existing JNOS/FBB/WL2K systems plus native SMTP handoff, ALE/BBSLink can pass traffic in pretty much any scenario. Again, PC-ALE has rudimentary message box buried in it, but we've focused our efforts in other directions. Taking ownership of a message for future delivery is a serious commitment. Tools like JNOS, and linux postfix type systems are far better at implementing the rules, retries, etc. HF should just be transport. What I have spent some design time on is how you could have marsale be an outbound transport to a sendmail/postfix system. (And possibly JNOS) But it would still be transport only, a plugin used instead of SMTP based on rules in the mail system config. It succeeds, or fails. No in-between. No store forward on the ALE/bbslink side. JNOS is an old friend. I was compiling, tweaking, and using Phil Karn's KA9Q, and then later, NOS back in the early 80's, and used it as a 56k packet gateway from my pc workstation lan starting in '85. There might even be some of my code/comments buried in there, I'd have to look. It's the swiss army knife of amateur messaging. If I were to try to implement an auto forward outbound gateway into the ALE BBSLink system I'd probably leverage JNOS to aggregate hand off. But I have been down the path of trying to make transparent TNC replacement plug-in using KISS. Lot's of session/link decisions would have to be made, each with tradeoffs. It's not just connect the dots. Not impossible, just analysis design. If winmor goes into production that may be another alternative. But you still have to do the session stuff. KISS just sends bytes, initiates connects, and detects connections. So whether f6fbb, winlink, or whatever, that has to be addressed. Have fun, Alan km4ba
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging
You are right in that the likely solution would be SCS and Pactor3. The only other thing that we have tried is RFSM8000, developed by Dimitri , which has a email gateway built into it, is ARQ and runs on soundcard Nobody in the US is using this on the ham bands at least since it does not conform to FCC rules as far as speed etc. I don't know if he is still actively developing the software but what we had worked well but required a pretty strong signal to work, since the bandwidth is about 3Khz I am sending a copy of this to Dimitri to see if he is around still. I make no apologies for dissing 1 line messages... sure I use SMS myself regularly for quick questions among family members and friends, but to pretend that this is a meaningful solution for emergency comms is just plain crazy. It's fun to use but not much beyond that. If I were sending this message from an area in Canada out of range of any internet access short of Sat phone, I couldn't get past the first line. I don't know about the USA, but a number of emergency agencies in other countries are revisiting HF backup systems for point to point data, since recent infrastructure failures have proven that our everyday systems are very vulnerable. Those involved with health and bioterrorism are particularly interested.. a number of health agencies and Canada's version of the Center for Disease Control have HF abilities already. In fact CDC in Atlanta has HF ALE has a place in all this to establish links and determine the most useable frequencies, But software like 141A or ALE400 are far more useful for passing data than the one-liners in PCALE. Now if it had a better interface to the internet other than a copy and paste routine, so much the better. I get very frustrated with those who still regard ARES contribution to emergency comms as tactical voice on VHF or HF. We have that role.am currently writing an exercise which would use hams as back-up in ambulances and EMS dispatch over a wide area of rural hospitals and small town EMS units. I also am frustrated since slowly but surely we are being forced into Pactor 3 as the only viable and expensive option for what we need . John VE5MU Change http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGl1MHZrBF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bm dzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzM0NTQ5MTg- settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email%20delivery:%20Dige st delivery to Daily Digest | Switch mailto:digitalradio-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change%20delivery%2 0Format:%20Traditional format to Traditional Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc2szZmJjBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGl tZQMxMjMzNDU0OTE4 Your Group | Yahoo! Groups http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Use | Unsubscribe mailto:digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject= Recent Activity . 7 New http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODQyaDVkBF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Z tYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzM0NTQ5MTg- Members . 1 New http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnYjRpZm0xBF9TA zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Zma WxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjMzNDU0OTE4 Files Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNTEzbjFxBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3R pbWUDMTIzMzQ1NDkxOA-- Your Group Drive Traffic Sponsored http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oqb6f0b/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D= groups/S=1705063108:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1233462119/L=/B=1K2CNEPDhFQ-/J=1233454919 349769/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http:/s earchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.php Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Join http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13on793t9/M=493064.12662708.12980600.8674578/D= groups/S=1705063108:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1233462119/L=/B=1a2CNEPDhFQ-/J=1233454919 349769/A=5349276/R=0/SIG=11nhsqmjq/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/Every dayWellness/ people over 40 who are finding ways to stay in shape. Y! Groups blog The http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ou8g634/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D= groups/S=1705063108:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1233462119/L=/B=1q2CNEPDhFQ-/J=1233454919 349769/A=5191953/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http:/www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/ place to go to stay informed on Groups news! . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1871183/grpspId=1705063108/msgId =29840/stime=1233454918/nc1=4025338/nc2=5349276/nc3=5191953
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging
Alan Barrow wrote: Yes, I understand it works. FBB works OK on HF because once you are logged in, it's not that interactive. But you still have 2-3 turnarounds before you send the initial message, etc. FBB protocol has a feature I find very valuable: the Z-modem style resume. JNOS had not achieved that until 1.11g or so... about the last I used seriously. Buried inside the P3 WL2K pactor transfers is a basic F6FBB chat login. Yes, I have been able to login to WL2K from FBB using P2 or P3. Typically 5-10 seconds to link, get logged in, and sync prior to really transferring the messages. Again, it works, lot's of messaging sent this way. But a bit wasteful. Why are you logging in when the system already knows who is sending it via your callsign? And you just sent the password in the clear on hf, so why bother? Login's are wasteful on HF. Lot's of analysis discussion in this area as well. That is interesting. I had (and lost) an archive collection of the early decisions in packet and BBS's. I learned a lot from that (and have forgotten many fine details as well). Real answer is a public/private key system. Anything else is wasted time bandwidth. Adds no security, and reduces reliability. I used the JNOS MD5 challenge/response logins. Otherwise, it was false security with clear passwords flying on the air. I am not too familiar with the public/private key systems. SMTP over HF is much less efficient reliable because it has many, many turnarounds. It is true. But JNOS LZW compressed SMTP fared fairly well in comparison. It's designed for a lan with infinite signal to noise ratio. :-) short packets, many turnarounds. With more overhead in the TCP/IP header than in the data sent. So in the commercial military systems, you see TCP/IP spoofing. Eat, then recreate the IP headers on the opposite end. Same for SMTP. I have never seen that in the ham world. Sounds interesting. (just like the trailblazer modems did with UUCP in the old unix days) I lived that... So how do you deal with this using the tools you have? With BBSLink we use an FBB command structure, but compress the initiation of sending the message into a single file transfer. IE: the command, user ID, etc is prepended to the message and processed by bbslink. So no login chat over the air, retries, etc. With HF, you only get so many seconds of decent S/N at times. You don't want to waste half of your window getting logged in using a system oriented for interactive users. Certainly. But there is a catch. I have *SUFFERED* receiving a queue where the most important mail is not the one I get first. A tricky condition that may prove nasty in an emergency. Perhaps it could be handy to be offered a set of headers/message sizes to choose. Routinely, it should not be necessary, but could be invoked if needed. Something to think about. I am not too familiar with WL2K beyond being a user. If the message is short enough, it's a single send, then ack back from the receiving system. Longer messages do have an ack before the next frame is sent, etc. DBM is not perfect, but works, and is a true WW standard. (for as much as that means... F6FBB is also a defacto standard but there are very many implementation differences in login specifics, etc when talking to them programatically.) We'd like to see other protocols like FAE, etc leveragable as well. So could you make JNOS/MSYS work over HF with a kiss modem? Most likely. Is that the best way? I think we can do better if we apply ourselves work together. JNOS is certainly a useful tool in the mix. I have had a good experience with FBB and JNOS and feel that the networking part worked in a fairly decent way. I used MSYS very little and liked FBB a lot, I felt it led the race in the early 90's. I am aware that the limit was not the networking part, but some sublayers in layer 1. I did quite a bit of FBB forwarding using my PTC-II and it worked wonderfully, with the same radio and using a lot less power. At least 10 times better on the average, thruput-wise. Maybe there is some room for improvement left, but nevertheless, I don't feel that the wheel has to be reinvented. Maybe just use more suitable tires, or better roller bearings, but reusing what has been proven to work. If the best known is not affordable, don't quit, and use another acceptable alternative. The worst is havin no comms at all. I dared to answer John because if networking and HF are an important terms in the equation I would rather use what I know that somehow works and not wait until a perfect solution shows up. It will eventually show up. Fortunately for us, there are people that strive to find better solutions for working systems. The best is, as far as I know, a SCS pactor controller. But slow packet or PAX could be workable solutions for HF. Would other modes capable of passing a full ASCII alphabet (8 bit words) work instead of a modem whistling
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
technically we were using FAE400 mode and FAE2000 modes, in ARQ as opposed to general broadcast (unproto) mode. I agree with you on the 400ARQ mode, and the feature I appreciate most is the ability to send mail to an unattended station, having determined that the unattended station can hear you, using QRZ,HFN or a user defined net call. This is about the only time that the ALE function is useful is doing what it was meant to do: establish a link. More than a few hams have taken the approach that ALE is a legitimate mode for passing traffic. Unless traffic is limited to a one line message, there doesn't seem to be much point. What I would like to propose is that we pick an 80M frequency (not 3596, since it seems to be the main frequency for RTTY broadcasts and activity) and try to pass a few messages around the country, using 400. Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well John VE5MU Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley escribió: Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible “store and forward” functions as well John VE5MU VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can gateway to the internet, a desirable feature for emergency comms John VE5MU I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley escribió: Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well John VE5MU VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
Hello to all, has compression which can greatly increase speed The compressed alphabet derives from the IZ8BLY MFSK Varicode. The main modifications are a priority given to accented small characters (much used in French, Spanish...). The gain is about 50 % in English. - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set: So as to be able to transmit accented characters and also non-latin characters (Cyrillic ones for example), - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ It's really indispensable for an ARQ protocol because it permits to drastically decrease the number of retries (each new frame retry is equivalent to an increase of 3 dB on the minimum S/N with a limit which is the impossibility to detect the header). Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible store and forward functions as well I have added to my wishes list the possibility to add an ARQ FAE repeater. I will see if it is possible (I'm not sure as it is quite complex). Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. Seems also difficult (due to the translation of protocols), but another solution would be to use the TCP/IP link (RX/TX) and add a new protocol layer (not simple either). I could extend the functions from the TCP/IP control. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a Hi John, At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection. Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent of sound card modes and computer access. When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is about 5 times wider and less robust. The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400: - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters - has compression which can greatly increase speed - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is Winmor, but that has not been released yet. What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
When I used to be on another digital group (I think it may have been one of the TAPR lists?), Maiko was able to get certain hardware/firmware to work with his development of JNOS2. Although JNOS is very theoretical to me, I wonder if it could it be set up with the mode of your choice (within limits) that will work well with sound cards? Considering the tremendous effort that has gone into some of these technologies, and the little use they seem to have gotten, it suggests to me that they do not meet the needs of a target user. Developing for proprietary hardware/firmware does not seem like the direction to take, but developing for sound card applications does seem like the most practical way to create something that may reach critical mass with enough users. I have believed for some time that we need a framework that would allow bolting on of different sound card modes for low cost and accurate data transfer between stations and even into the internet on an ad hoc basis so that you can set it up whenever you have the need and wherever an internet connection might be available for public service/emergency traffic. By itself, the old MIL-STD-188-141A protocol is a fairly old technology (1970's), and would not normally be something that we would intentionally use anymore. The FAE modified form has proven itself to me and several of us who have been experimenting with it, since it is more robust and yet reasonably fast with the slower baud rate and narrower bandwidth of FAE400. Are any developers looking at the Winmor specifications and its approach to not only error free data transfer, but having adaptive modes that can work under varying conditions? 73, Rick, KV9U Jose A. Amador wrote: I almost always used JNOS with KISS interfaces, it is a natural way of using it. TNC's under MSDOS, and also thru pipes under Linux with net2kiss (I would have to go back to the manual to remember a few details). It could be interfaced with the BPQ switch, so FBB, JNOS, the BPQ switch could share the same KISS TNC. I was not succesful to interface JNOS to MultiPSK using TCPIP, and have not tried yet using the KISS interface, but I see that others have had quite a bit of success with it. Could that be extended to ALE? Right now I don't really know, but looks interesting to find out. I am not up to date with all that Maiko has added to JNOS 2.0 73, Jose, CO2JA --- John Bradley wrote: So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can gateway to the internet, a desirable feature for emergency comms John VE5MU I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application. Does anyone find this to be wrong? The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or actually, re-done... For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS. Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting. I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem. Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc 73, Jose, CO2JA
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A
As of Z , VE5MU and VE5GPM are on 3596USB dial , MU running ALE400, GPM running 141A. Stations will be operating until 0700 or later Both have QRZ and HFN enabled, try a connect or sounding . Or try sending a small text file (1K or so). reception reports would be appreciated John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a
After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and QRM. Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning . John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A
In answer to your questions... . did not have any luck with a connect from anyone other than local hams on both 141A and ALE400 , but the bands were in particularly bad shape over the weekend . Am in the process of installing a 800watt solid state amp at VE5GPM, so will try that later this week , probably running 300 W on both ALE400 and 141A.. will let you know where/when. GPM is located at an EOC and I have remote control abilities on that station. Very interested in seeing how this works for text messaging up to 3K in size. . Have given up on the PCALE and HFlink bunch, since there seems to be no interest in doing anything other than sending 1 line messages to each other , or simply sounding. The MARS version of PCALE might work, but the author is not allowing use of this software outside of the MARS side. why is anyone's guess. As far as I can see no progress has been made to get some sort of practical message handling system in place, using ALE to establish contacts. . Have not talked to Dmitri for some time so have no idea where he is at with RFSM8000 . It is a great piece of software, requires fairly strong signal to operate at any speed. Still play with it from time to time. . From our point of view have thrown in the towel and will likely go with SCS Modems using Pactor 3 for some of the longer haul stuff we do, and our served agencies seem ready to purchase the necessary gear. Still interested in a sound card messaging mode which could link to the internet when required. . Am going to send Patrick a separate email about doing a striped down version of multipsk for emergency comms, something that would do PSK,MFSK,Olivia and the ALE modes, and nothing else...AND with a message gateway... that's all I want for next Christmas , hee hee. . Am anxious to get a few folks experimenting with modes suitable for emergency comms, up and using them somewhere John VE5MU Hi John, Did you have any luck with either station getting a connect? I tried both frequencies last night but no luck. The 141A mode is not very sensitive compared to the more modern modes developed in the past decade. Have you considered the FAE400 mode for this purpose? I am not sure if it has the capability to do what you want in terms of networking, but it works very much deeper into the noise. Can the FAE modes do what the 141A type of mode can do? I have only used FAE400 for ARQ chatting, which I really liked, but almost no one else did:( I can hear some 141A transmissions on 14.109 this morning but not able to decode them. Tried calling QRZ but no luck either. Based on their signal strength, they would decode very well with most of the sound card modes. Can you update us on how things are going with the RFSM8000 product? My wife and I have been testing digital modes, particularly the ARQ messaging modes, and if nothing else, the RFSM2400 software seems to be the easiest messaging software available. Even though we can not use this on MF/HF (except maybe for image, but who knows, as the FCC won't even respond to requests for clarification here in the U.S.), it is certainly legal to use on 6 meters and up and might be a workable solution for some public service oriented hams. Isn't it ironic that after all these years we still do not have any HF sound card messaging system that can even approach what we had with packet BBS systems? There is at least one HF packet group in my state which appears to be a casual group with similar interests, however the baud rate makes it difficult to get messages through and when I have monitored, there are mostly retry after retry. If they went to say, the 110 baud speed, it would work a lot better. But then again, the hardware probably makes that impossible. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A
I tried to connect again today (this afternoon) as I saw your request for connecting via FAE400 on 14.111 and 7.103. I tried both stations callsigns as it almost seemed as if the frequencies were reversed from the other day with the regular MIL-STD-188-141A mode, but maybe I misread that, HI. I was sure that I would be able to connect today, but maybe I am not understanding the times you are going off air? I even tried using increased power with my amplifier to 100+ watts and still nothing. I also tried QRZ as well as the callsigns, but not sure if you would key into that. Based on their odd behavior, PCALE and HFLink appear to have some very disturbed people. Not all, of course as some really went out of their way to help, but enough to lose credibility with most hams. I have received comments from others, surprisingly, even on the air contacts, where individuals expressed similar views, and I have been personally attacked as apparently not being pure enough in how I used their system. It is hard to understand, since I really tried hard to figure out how to make the system work as best as I could, even going so far as to have Patrick make some changes for me to try with Multipsk but we never could get it to work properly. I know they were most upset that I pointed out that contrary to their claims, I was one of the only hams world wide that actually tried using their system for practical messaging. And it was rather obvious after monitoring their web site which shows all world wide activity that was not happening. Their solution was to actually block my IP from accessing their site so I can no longer report on the minimal use. Needless to say, anyone who would do such a thing, is very dangerous in terms of providing serious, public service/emergency communications that you can count on. It might not be there, or could be blocked during an emergency. Either way, they have certainly damaged their cause beyond repair with many hams and it was completely unnecessary. My rule of thumb is to just be honest and don't try and make false claims because sooner or later it will catch up with you. On a more positive note, it would be very interesting to see is a software like Sigmira that could not only decode MIL-STD-188-110A protocols, but could also transmit them. I have been able to decode some open ID's of stations from France that must be ildling and ready to transmit data. But as mentioned, we U.S. hams would have to use it on VHF and up. Most of these stations tend to use the 300 and 600 bps data rates, but the software supports all the way down to the 75 bps speed which is necessary to handle the severe conditions on HF. In the meantime, I have great expectations for Winmor. And if the specifications are open, it is very possible that some of our amazing programmers could make a peer to peer version of Winmor. As I always say, it only takes one person who has the knowledge and interest to do it. This technology could be set up with a multiband/multimode rig with a sound card interface and be used from HF through UHF with minimal changes in operating technique. But if you need something today, then SCS is probably the best commercial route to take. It was interesting to show my wife the choices we have available now for ARQ modes, but except for RFSM2400, the others were intimidating. This assumes that the user can work out the other 99 steps you need to take to get a rig interfaced to a computer with the software properly configured, etc., etc. I take it for granted (most of the time) but even I sometimes have something become non operational due to some glitch. In fact, just had an odd thing happen during the ARRL VHF Contest when I was trying out N1MM Logger. It appears to force a switch from mike input to auxiliary input (which I don't use) and you have to know to go back into the sound card software to switch it back when you want to use a digital sound card program. Maybe there is a fix for that? It was surprising how many hams we had locally participate in the VHF contest. I have personally asked some of them, plus sent out some e-mail promoting what we can do with digital modes on HF and VHF and even on VHF FM and whether they would give some consideration to doing some public service stuff but the answer is either ... not interested, or too busy with other things to try something new like that. I don't see many of my ham students from my entry level (and even General) classes do much more than 2 meter FM and then move to HF SSB but not a lot more. But I keep trying to promote digital modes on HF and VHF and up. Keep us posted on any more attempts to connect with you or GPM 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: In answer to your questions……. · did not have any luck with a connect from anyone other than local hams on both 141A and ALE400 , but the bands were in particularly bad shape over the weekend . Am in the process of
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A
John Bradley wrote: · Have given up on the PCALE and HFlink bunch, since there seems to be no interest in doing anything other than sending 1 line messages to each other , or simply sounding. The MARS version of PCALE might work, but the author is not allowing use of this software outside of the MARS side… why is anyone’s guess. As far as I can see no progress has been made to get some sort of practical message handling system in place, using ALE to establish contacts. Hello John, I'm not sure I understand your comments about one line messaging, as many of us have been using dbm dtm multi-line messaging via pc-ale, mars-ale, and of late multi-psk. It's not perfect, but it works, is a true international mil standard, and is soundcard based. Right now I'm probably the biggest hold up to more DBM based multi-lined messaging. It's not from lack of interest, it's just time tech issues. Even as is it works well for shorter message, we have some bugs I need to chase resolve for long (1k+ messages). Routes out to smtp or into the winlink system. Reads back messages, you can delete messages, etc. Approaching packet BBS functionality, which has been my model for basic functionality. We are working on other messaging concepts which will increase the functionality further. Regarding mars-ale vs pc-ale, Steve N2CKH has been slowly converging the two. First the modem core moved, then radio support libraries, and lately the capability to communicate with other programs via telnet has as well. Right now, the current pc-ale beta has the majority of US ham legal content of marsale. Between pc-ale multi-psk there are some very good tools available. · From our point of view have thrown in the towel and will likely go with SCS Modems using Pactor 3 for some of the longer haul stuff we do, and our served agencies seem ready to purchase the necessary gear. Still interested in a sound card messaging mode which could link to the internet when required. P3 has it's uses and can be effective if you can obtain the modems. But tech like P3 would be far more powerful if leveraged with an ALE approach to find the highest S/N path and leverage the bands more effectively. Or connect to a specific station on demand. · Am going to send Patrick a separate email about doing a striped down version of multipsk for emergency comms, something that would do PSK,MFSK,Olivia and the ALE modes, and nothing else…….AND with a message gateway……… that’s all I want for next Christmas , hee hee. This would be a neat thing. Ever give any thought to working on something like this? Several of us have, would be great to have some other folks coding. I know Patrick has exposed an API to multi-psk. Have fun, Alan km4ba
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB
Hello to all, To leave a mail to John, start the Aux. fonctions window and add VE5MU to your callsign list: - Write VE5MU in the edit label where it is written Call - click on the buttonAdd this call to the list - click on the button Lits up-to-date Select VE5MU in the addressee list (combobox), Write a message in the ARQ FAE mail to send. Click on the button Send mail (+ file) and let the program send automatically the mail to John (abandon after one minute in case of poor propagation). There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is available from my site site http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc; (copy and paste this adress in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress field). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:23 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB from 1600Z Friday to Z Sunday, VE5MU will be on 3584 USB running ALE 400. 1500 hz center .QRZ and HFN enabled for soundings please connect using the Mail function, leave your name ,address and signal report, and I will forward you a genuine VE5MU QSL card directly. These might be collector's items. someday john VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB
from 1600Z Friday to Z Sunday, VE5MU will be on 3584 USB running ALE 400. 1500 hz center .QRZ and HFN enabled for soundings please connect using the Mail function, leave your name ,address and signal report, and I will forward you a genuine VE5MU QSL card directly. These might be collector's items. someday john VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 frequencies
Expeditionradio said: This narrow auto sub-band is time-shared with many different automatic/semi-automatic nets and stations, including various packet and pactor modes. The segment is only 4kHz wide, so if one is using a standard 3kHz SSB filter, it almost covers the whole segment. It is important, as ALE400 operators, for us to co-operate with the other nets and modes we share this narrow segment of the band with. We will never achieve a worldwide clear frequency specific to ALE400 in this narrow sub-band, so we must accept some non-ALE400 interference, as the reality of operating in this part of 20 meters. If the frequency is already in use, this means that we sometimes may need to wait a few minutes to make an ALE400 call. The HF link folks are NOT an official body, rather a small group of ALE enthusiasts who actively support PCALE software. They do not support multipsk. In my opinion PCALE is inferior to MultiPSK and is unable to do many of the things that MPSK is capable of , including working down into the noise, and the ease of an ARQ QSO , or passing files. The HFlink folks would relegate ALE400 to frequencies which would be undesirable, with birdies, and packet interference. Why? It is up to ALE400 users to pick a frequency, more particularly, it is up to US users to pick frequencies which conform to the US band plan , which the rest of us don't understand. There is no reason why ALE400 could not share 14109.5 with regular ALE stations, of which there appears to be relatively few active. Maybe an adjacent frequency such as 14108.5 would be satisfactory. The point is as ALE400 users, we don't have to take Bonnie and the HFlink's suggestions as gospel. We can, and should find our own way with a frequency that is relatively clear and useable. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing
OK John, well as I said I dumped MultiPSK but may get it back as nothing but problems with MixW and it should serve as a good backup program anyway even if it does look like a dogs breakfast LOL. Cheers - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:13 AM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing VE5GPM beaconing on 14109.5 , 5 minute intervals until 20:00UTC , beam pointed south east VE5MU listening 14109.5, ready for connect until 20:00 utc John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing
VE5GPM beaconing on 14109.5 , 5 minute intervals until 20:00UTC , beam pointed south east VE5MU listening 14109.5, ready for connect until 20:00 utc John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 on 3.590
Hi all I am calling on 3.590 in ale400 now 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
[digitalradio] ALE400 on 3.590 QRT
73 de LA5VNA Steinar
[digitalradio] ALE400/FAE400 modes
Is anyone using the HFLink ALE 400 frequencies? I have not had any luck in contacting anyone on these frequencies using the narrow ALE and FAE modes. Also, if you are using these modes, when do you find it best to use ALE400 vis a vis FAE400? My personal preference is to call CQ with FAE400 since it sends out a series of calls every few seconds, rather than long transmission as you find in ALE modes. If it turns out that the frequency is in use, (digital modes don't tend to have a method to QRL), you can immediately stop transmissions. Examples of frequencies I call on here in Region 2: 3589 7065 10136.5 10141.5 (this frequency seems to compete with Pactor in my area so maybe 10136.5 is better?) 14094 (this frequency is very close to an FBB packet activity but may be far enough to be OK) 73, Rick, KV9U
[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074
Hi all Calling on 14.074 in ale400 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Hi Patrick Many thanks Next week will become ALE400 week for me. This week is a meteor scatter week :-) 73, Hisami 7L4IOU Hello Hisami, Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet? There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is available from my site site http://f6cte.free.fr/ ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc (copy and paste this adress in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress field). Look also at http:// hflink.com/ale400/ which is a specific page for ALE400, with a lot of information. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Hisami Dejima To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Hi Patrik I found ALE400 by RSID, but QSO was not completed. Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet? 73, Hisami 7L4IOU Hello John, Where on the bands can this mode be found? For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk group. And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ? Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK modes (as MFSK16 for example). So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the RS ID detection ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of an ALE400 transmission. 73 Patrick Click on the button QRGs for all the frequencies. Here is for ALE400: ALE400 (USB) Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926. 0, 28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz). The complete list of frequencies is on http://hflink.com/ale400;. For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses: The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php - Original Message - From: John Becker, W0JAB To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Where on the bands can this mode be found? And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ? ---html-part included links--- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc= X3oDMTJmMGJvNHVwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMT A4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc0OTU5Njg- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery Format: Fully Featured http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc= X3oDMTJkcWNvczl0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMT A4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NDk1OTY4 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ---html-part included links--- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com mailto:w0jab%40big-river.net http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc= mailto:digitalradio-digest%40yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc= http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ mailto:digitalradio-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc= X3oDMTJmazAyYmIxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc1NzM0NzI- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery Format: Fully Featured http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc= X3oDMTJkcWFibGtvBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NTczNDcy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Hello John, Where on the bands can this mode be found? For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk group. And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ? Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK modes (as MFSK16 for example). So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the RS ID detection ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of an ALE400 transmission. 73 Patrick Click on the button QRGs for all the frequencies. Here is for ALE400: ALE400 (USB) Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz). The complete list of frequencies is on http://hflink.com/ale400;. For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses: The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php - Original Message - From: John Becker, WØJAB To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Where on the bands can this mode be found? And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
At 03:47 PM 12/12/2007, you wrote: Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK modes (as MFSK16 for example). Thanks Patrick. I knew that but was asking if it sounds like Pactor or Amtor ARQ. The fast on off. I have no clue what RS ID detection is .
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Hi Patrik I found ALE400 by RSID, but QSO was not completed. Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet? 73, Hisami 7L4IOU Hello John, Where on the bands can this mode be found? For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk group. And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ? Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK modes (as MFSK16 for example). So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the RS ID detection ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of an ALE400 transmission. 73 Patrick Click on the button QRGs for all the frequencies. Here is for ALE400: ALE400 (USB) Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz). The complete list of frequencies is on http://hflink.com/ale400;. For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses: The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php - Original Message - From: John Becker, WØJAB To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Where on the bands can this mode be found? And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ? ---html-part included links--- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc= X3oDMTJmMGJvNHVwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc0OTU5Njg- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery Format: Fully Featured http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc= X3oDMTJkcWNvczl0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NDk1OTY4 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[digitalradio] ALE400
Where on the bands can this mode be found? And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Hi John, We don't have any specific places we have been operating, although I made a suggestion on the HFDEC yahoogroup (Hams for Disaster and Emergency Communications), that perhaps we could operate up a ways from the typical PSK31 watering holes. My suggestion, and it is only a suggestion, is up 5 kHz, so 3585, 7075, 10145, and 14075? Or perhaps some other frequencies if these interfere with something. The sound is not like regular 141A ALE since it is 2.5 time slower. Even though it is not as fast as 141A ALE, since it is much more robust, it gets through when 141A can not. Generally speaking, 141A ALE is fairly old technology now, and can only work a few dB below the noise. FAE 400 is even more robust than ALE 400 (apparently due to memory ARQ as implemented in Pactor) and seems to work as well as, or even better than PSK31. And while the bandwidth is much wider than PSK31 (about 400 Hz vs only 60 Hz) you get solid error free copy with no hits. The feel of the modes is amazingly similar to Clover II. It uses an asynchronous ARQ, so there is no constant back and forth transmission, even when nothing is being sent. It sends only when there is something to send, or when it needs to retry. I have always found it really neat how fast the other station can automatically respond to a burst of data. Very much the same thing as when we tested the high speed (~ 1000 wpm) SCAMP mode a few years ago. 73, Rick, KV9U John Becker, WØJAB wrote: Where on the bands can this mode be found? And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
[digitalradio] ALE400
Hi All; Yesterday used ALE400 in a long QSO with EA3AFR, Txema, on 14094.5 . Conditions were not the best, yet We were able to chat for about 30 minutes despite some QRM/QSB. The software was very impressive, Working well even down to my noise floor. Under poor conditions it is important to avoid collisions by typing and ending with an over sign, be it BT,K or -.- , and this avoids getting out of sync. Under strong signal conditions it doesn't seem to matter much who is typing, since it all comes through. Patrick you have a real winner with this software and am looking forward to playing more. I am currently on 14094.5 , 1625 centre, if anyone wants to try a connect... I won't be around but feel free to play. John VE5MU DO70QK
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
Hello John, TKS for the report of this long QSO. Under poor conditions it is important to avoid collisions by typing and ending with an over sign, be it BT,K or In the last test version, I have integered a Sholto Fisher idea to limit collisions, which is the following: If A receives a frame from B there is a big probability that A receives a new frame from B. Previously, if A had something to send, A directly sent his frame if the channel was free. With a big probability there was a collision between the A frame and the B frame. Now, if A has to send something, in this configuration, there will be an enforced small delay before A transmission, so as to be able to detect a frame from B. So A will detect the B frame and will send his message with the acknowledgment of the B frame and there will be no collision. So I think this problem is partially solved, partially because it is impossible to avoid collisions. But collisions are managed by the protocol and there is no problem. However, if the channel is very noisy (let's say under -10 dB) it could be possibly difficult to recover the normal exchange. The softs (of A and B) have one minute to recover the link, afterwards there is an automatic disconnection. I think this delay (one minute) is superior to the duration of a simple QSB, during which the signal can be lost. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Hi All; Yesterday used ALE400 in a long QSO with EA3AFR, Txema, on 14094.5 . Conditions were not the best, yet We were able to chat for about 30 minutes despite some QRM/QSB. The software was very impressive, Working well even down to my noise floor. Under poor conditions it is important to avoid collisions by typing and ending with an over sign, be it BT,K or -.- , and this avoids getting out of sync. Under strong signal conditions it doesn't seem to matter much who is typing, since it all comes through. Patrick you have a real winner with this software and am looking forward to playing more. I am currently on 14094.5 , 1625 centre, if anyone wants to try a connect... I won't be around but feel free to play. John VE5MU DO70QK
[digitalradio] ALE400
Worked WB8NUT and N2JR on 20M today, under pretty poor conditions. N2JR was just at my noise level and ALE400 copied as well as MFSK under these conditions. Was able to do a connect and chat , as well as upload mail to the mailbox. Very impressive and would be interested in trying it on 40/80/160 one of these nights if anyone is up for it John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400
Sitting on 14109.5 ALE400 all Thrusday Morning , if anyone wants to try the mail function John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE400 – Narrow band ALE mode now availabl e
ALE400 – Narrow band ALE mode now available Patrick F6CTE has announced that a narrow band version of the popular Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) software is now available. On the HFLink Yahoo group he writes: For those interested in doing ALE and ARQ FAE using a narrow bandwidth (400 Hz), I have derived from the standard ALE a new ALE with a bandwidth of 400 Hz (instead of 2000 Hz) and which is called 'ALE400'. This ALE system has exactly the same functions as the standard ALE (in Multipsk) except that the: • bandwidth is 400 Hz (so ALE400 can be used where 500 Hz modes are permitted) • the speed (and consequently the text throughput) is 2.5 slower, • no fix frequency (it is as MFSK16, Olivia or DominoEX modes) • the S/N is 5 dB better: - 9 dB for AMD messages and Unproto - 11.5 dB (- 13.5 dB with many repetitions) for ARQ FAE For ARQ FAE, it has been added a compression system using a modified IZ8BLY (Nino) MFSK Varicode. So the text throughput (in ALE400) is typically 60 wpm (up to 107 mpm in bilateral and 63 characters frames). This test version in a ZIP test package is available in my site http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_28_10_2007.ZIP (copy and paste this address in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net address field). It contains the Multipsk test version, the help files (in English and French) and the specifications (in English) of the ARQ FAE mode (version 1.4). Create a temporary folder (C:\TEST, for example), unzip the files in it and start C:\TEST\TEST\Multipsk.exe (the auxiliary files will be created automatically). For the contextual help, click on the right button of the mouse, with the focus over the mode button ALE400. Use also the button hints (wait a fraction of second over a button). Hints: • if you are the Master (initiator of the CQ): confirm the RS ID transmission in Options (to permit an automatic tuning for other Hams), check Master on the Mode panel and, afterwards, push the button CQ • if you are the Slave (the Ham who answers): push the button RS ID detection (to permit your automatic tuning on CQ), check Slave on the Mode panel and, afterwards, push the button Answer. Both will push on the AFC button. Note: it rings on successful connexion (on both sides). 73 Patrick Related URL’s HFLink Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HFLink HFLink http://www.hflink.org/ MultiPSK Website http://f6cte.free.fr/ ALE400 Software - A Test version has been available at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_28_10_2007.ZIP but like all test software it could be frequently updated. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[digitalradio] ALE400
This Am did a connect using ALE400 between Cincinnati (WB8NUT) and Regina, which is just over 2000km. This was on 14109.5 ALE400 worked very well on 20 and was able to maintain the connect despite some significant QSB. Worked well down into the weeds and, being ARQ had 100% copy. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
I agree it is a very useful development. I am just wondering, since many standard ALE frequencies end with a .5, what about using for example 14109.0 ? On 10/30/07, John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First impressions are that Patrick has a very nice bit of software in the new ALE400 mode on MultiPSK. This is another step down the road to a strong ARQ mode, and It would be great to see a number of people Download and experiment with it. It can be found at: http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_28_10_2007.ZIP I disagree with Bonnie and think that any experiments with the mode should be done on The same ALE frequencies as are currently used since it is an opportunity to skip back and forth to compare performance. There is nothing to be gained by moving off to some obscure frequency since these Would not be monitored on a regular basis. By splintering the ALE frequencies it Would discourage use of anything other than PCALE on 14109.5. Additionally , this would create sounding tones on a number of other frequencies Which are or could be used for other modes. Since there is not a large active ALE community ( emphasis on ACTIVE) all can, and should be able survive on the current ALE frequencies. John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
