Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
In order to use a software version of Amtor, you would need to switch to Linux OS. From what I have read, however, it is not very effective compared to a dedicated box. Amtor had its day, and I operated it with several different types of boxes, but it is fairly slow and can not work into the noise as well as the newer sound card modes, and it can not handle the full ASCII character set. I think you will find that the new 141A FAE mode to do better than Amtor and you have the full ASCII character set and you have quasi duplex operation very similar to the way that Clover II worked. The free Multipsk program can decode AMTOR ARQ but of course has no way to handle repeats. It can transmit and receive with AMTOR FEC. Similarly, it can listen to Pactor 1 ARQ and it can transmit Pactor FEC. 73, Rick, KV9U Danny Douglas wrote: > Since I dont use either Pactor or Amtor, I couldnt really recommend any > software for either, except I do know that MixW shows both a Pactor and > Amtor as well as 16 other modes. But, I believe those two are for receive > only. Someone on here may know otherwise and would ask them to chime in > here. The last time I used either was 10 or so years ago with a tnc, and > there were so few using them, I gave them up for Lent. As to RTTY, I still > enjoy it, but most folks have switched over to PSK on daily oprerations, It > certainly copies weak signals much better than RTTY, but RTTY contests still > are a popular gathering place. >
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
If you are operating AFSK, or have a low end rig that does not do FSK RTTY, then you would need to calculate the numbers as you suggest. Most rigs that are set up for FSK RTTY will read out on the RTTY Mark Frequency, but some will read out on Space, so it does vary between rig designs. Since the tones are usually operated at narrow shift, the most you can be off is 170 Hz:) I never had a rig that could do FSK RTTY used to have to get a calculator out to figure out the right dial frequency if I wanted to link in to certain autostart bbs's. I still have my Kenwood TS440SAT and even though it has a button for FSK, it really can only do AFSK. As an aside, this rig still works and since my wife recently upgraded to General, by her request, I set up the rig for listening with a multiband trap antenna. She plans to use this initially when we figure out how to get power from the battery through the firewall in her truck. We just got the bug catcher antenna so she can try out HF mobile, mostly on 75 meters. 73, Rick, KV9U John Becker wrote: > I have no waterfall when I operate RTTY or software > or computer or can click on anything. But I can do the math > from the dial frequence to spot a mark dial frequency if that > would make you happy. Maybe you can click on that. > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
Since I dont use either Pactor or Amtor, I couldnt really recommend any software for either, except I do know that MixW shows both a Pactor and Amtor as well as 16 other modes. But, I believe those two are for receive only. Someone on here may know otherwise and would ask them to chime in here. The last time I used either was 10 or so years ago with a tnc, and there were so few using them, I gave them up for Lent. As to RTTY, I still enjoy it, but most folks have switched over to PSK on daily oprerations, It certainly copies weak signals much better than RTTY, but RTTY contests still are a popular gathering place. I dont "need" software for CW either, but I do use it for certain times that I want to send out an auto-CQ or during a contest when the computer can keep track of "worked" stations, a whole lot better than I used to do so, with paper. I no longer uses the memories in the rig for CW keying, but have gone completely over to the software to do that At the end of the contest, you push a button and VIOLA - you have the complete logs ready to send in, and they are scored etc. Keeping an electronic log on a daily basis, is certainly more accurate and faster than trying to keep up with paper logs, etc. DXKeeper does not copy CW at all, but MixW and several others "try" to do so, and in my estimation are almost useless for that purpose - unless the other guy is using a computer to send, and there is no QRM or QRN - very unlikely circumstances during a contest, and especially during a pile-up for a new one. The only reason I ever used a computer to read cw is my own keying, with a straight key or a Vibroplex. In that respect, you can really tell how well you are using those to transmit. If the copy comes out 100 percent, you are doing very fine. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: "John Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes > At 07:48 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: > >That what I say John. You cant follow my recommendation, because you dont > >use a waterfall. > > Danny your recommendation was to get DXLABS. I have no use for it. > As I said I have RTTY covered very well. The other modes you said that > it will do ( CW PSK) - I don't need software to do CW and I don't care for > PSK therefore that makes it useless and worthless for me. Now if you can > find me software that will do Pactor ARQ 1 to 3 or Amtor ARQ you will > have my interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at > http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM > >
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
At 07:48 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: >That what I say John. You cant follow my recommendation, because you dont >use a waterfall. Danny your recommendation was to get DXLABS. I have no use for it. As I said I have RTTY covered very well. The other modes you said that it will do ( CW PSK) - I don't need software to do CW and I don't care for PSK therefore that makes it useless and worthless for me. Now if you can find me software that will do Pactor ARQ 1 to 3 or Amtor ARQ you will have my interest.
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
That what I say John. You cant follow my recommendation, because you dont use a waterfall. I havent used straight rtty in so long, and never really used it on the ham bands so dont know how you would do that. Unless there is a way you can easily put on a spot note, saying it IS a rig readout, and I dont know how accurate that would be for those of us with computers. We would just live with it - as we are already doing. Its better for notify us that P5 is up, even though we might have to search for it. HI. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: "John Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes > That's fine Danny but I'll say it once again just for you - > I have no waterfall when I operate RTTY or software > or computer or can click on anything. But I can do the math > from the dial frequence to spot a mark dial frequency if that > would make you happy. Maybe you can click on that. > > > > At 06:29 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: > > >I guess it comes down to the majority of us not working Hell, or M63. There > >may be a lot that do, but I hardly if ever see a spot on those modes. As to > >RTTY, I have 227 countries, and also 135 on PSK. The majority of spots on > >RTTY are almost spot on, and I am guessing that what I see on the spot page > >are actually taking into consideration the offset, where the Mark freq > >shows. For instance right now, the only RTTY I see for awhile on the spot > >page is 14,0864 for EC1AAC. When I click on that one, the trace marker on > >the waterfall shows up at 14.0864 and the rig shows 14.08522 on the tune > >window. I seldom have to move the tracer more than 100 cy, and that really > >isnt necessary , in order to copy the signal. Also, if the AFC is activated > >on the software, it hops right on top of the incoming signal. If you dont > >have a waterfall, it would be impossible to spot the waterfall freq, now > >would it no?. HI. > > > >One of these days, you will probably have CAT control. It took me about 34 > >years before I did. Its been an excellent addition to my operation, but > >prior rigs simply didnt have the capability. I started doing that at the > >same time I started using a computer to send/receive RTTY - and only after > >my TS430s took a dive from a lightning strike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at > http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM > >
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
That's fine Danny but I'll say it once again just for you - I have no waterfall when I operate RTTY or software or computer or can click on anything. But I can do the math from the dial frequence to spot a mark dial frequency if that would make you happy. Maybe you can click on that. At 06:29 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: >I guess it comes down to the majority of us not working Hell, or M63. There >may be a lot that do, but I hardly if ever see a spot on those modes. As to >RTTY, I have 227 countries, and also 135 on PSK. The majority of spots on >RTTY are almost spot on, and I am guessing that what I see on the spot page >are actually taking into consideration the offset, where the Mark freq >shows. For instance right now, the only RTTY I see for awhile on the spot >page is 14,0864 for EC1AAC. When I click on that one, the trace marker on >the waterfall shows up at 14.0864 and the rig shows 14.08522 on the tune >window. I seldom have to move the tracer more than 100 cy, and that really >isnt necessary , in order to copy the signal. Also, if the AFC is activated >on the software, it hops right on top of the incoming signal. If you dont >have a waterfall, it would be impossible to spot the waterfall freq, now >would it no?. HI. > >One of these days, you will probably have CAT control. It took me about 34 >years before I did. Its been an excellent addition to my operation, but >prior rigs simply didnt have the capability. I started doing that at the >same time I started using a computer to send/receive RTTY - and only after >my TS430s took a dive from a lightning strike.
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
I guess it comes down to the majority of us not working Hell, or M63. There may be a lot that do, but I hardly if ever see a spot on those modes. As to RTTY, I have 227 countries, and also 135 on PSK. The majority of spots on RTTY are almost spot on, and I am guessing that what I see on the spot page are actually taking into consideration the offset, where the Mark freq shows. For instance right now, the only RTTY I see for awhile on the spot page is 14,0864 for EC1AAC. When I click on that one, the trace marker on the waterfall shows up at 14.0864 and the rig shows 14.08522 on the tune window. I seldom have to move the tracer more than 100 cy, and that really isnt necessary , in order to copy the signal. Also, if the AFC is activated on the software, it hops right on top of the incoming signal. If you dont have a waterfall, it would be impossible to spot the waterfall freq, now would it no?. HI. One of these days, you will probably have CAT control. It took me about 34 years before I did. Its been an excellent addition to my operation, but prior rigs simply didnt have the capability. I started doing that at the same time I started using a computer to send/receive RTTY - and only after my TS430s took a dive from a lightning strike. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: "John Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes > At 09:45 AM 5/28/2007, you wrote: > >What is all comes down to is the fact that if EVERY op spots the freq, as > >seen on the waterfall, then there would be no question about where the > >station spotted actually is. > > This may be very true Danny but I can only spot dial or a mark > frequency on 3 of the 5 digitals modes that I operate. > > RTTY, Amtor and Pactor has no waterfall or sound card or CAT software. > Hell and MT-63 has a waterfall but I always use the big knob to tune in a > station so the software is still at the default offset. Besides not having any > CAT control for the rig. > > > > > > > > > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at > http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM > >
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
At 09:45 AM 5/28/2007, you wrote: >What is all comes down to is the fact that if EVERY op spots the freq, as >seen on the waterfall, then there would be no question about where the >station spotted actually is. This may be very true Danny but I can only spot dial or a mark frequency on 3 of the 5 digitals modes that I operate. RTTY, Amtor and Pactor has no waterfall or sound card or CAT software. Hell and MT-63 has a waterfall but I always use the big knob to tune in a station so the software is still at the default offset. Besides not having any CAT control for the rig.
Re: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
What is all comes down to is the fact that if EVERY op spots the freq, as seen on the waterfall, then there would be no question about where the station spotted actually is. Every software package that I have used for digital ops has worked the same way. If you spot 14.0713567 or whatever, and I click on it, that signal will pop up at 14.713567, directly where the software reads it, and I dont have to wander around, wondering which of a dozen or more signals on the waterfall is actually the correct one. We all underrstand that there is still a possibility of a slight error and the signal may be a few cycles off (10-20, etc,) but still close enough you wont mistake another signal for the spotted one, and if you use agc it will instantly zero beat the correct one.If you spot the station at 14.070, that is where my waterfall winds up, and the station is NOT there, nor anywhere close. Your offset doesnt matter to me, nor mine to you. Spotting the station at "14.070 plus 1000" at least advises other ops where the station actually is, but doesnt permit others the "one click and on freq" capability built in to software packages. My present sound card does have the sweet spot (offset) at 1 KC, but its only one of the last 4 sound cards that did so. Others have been 600 cy, 1200 cy and 865 cy. Anyone spotting a freq at 14.070 will thus lead different ops, using different computer sound cards, off by whatever THEIR offset is. I know that some folk do not have CAT software at the time, but I believe every new rig has the capability, and you need only one patch cord to run from the computer to the rig to activate that, and the majority will have, if not already, CAT control of their rigs. Things are quickly changing and we need to bend a little to go with the flow. Boy - it sure makes things quicker too. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes > Paul, > > When you are on CW, many rigs will have an offset. I have an Argonaut V, > and, as you noted, you can set the offset tone for your preference. That > way you are zero beat with the other station and yet you can adjust your > sidetone to what works best for you. > > With RTTY, the frequency specified was typically the mark with rigs > using FSK. That is why there was some confusion from some hams who may > be operating AFSK since their dial frequency on AFSK is going to be > quite different than the dial readout on FSK. This is mostly dependent > on how your rig is designed. > > For example, on my ICOM 756 Pro 2, if I zero beat on AFSK using SSB and > then switch to FSK, it will place the tones with the mark tone of 2125 > Hz. If I try to zero beat in RTTY mode, I would be over 2 KHz off. If I > try to zero beat in CW I would of course be off by whatever offset I > programmed into the rig, which in my case is going to be around 600 Hz. > > If you are using a sound card mode, you will be injecting tones into an > SSB transmitter. The dial frequency is actually reading out your carrier > frequency, but of course with SSB, for all practical purposes, there is > no carrier being transmitted. The dial frequency is only a place holder, > it is NOT the actual frequency you are transmitting. The actual > frequency you are transmitting depends upon the frequency of the tone > you are injecting into the transmitter and whether you are using USB or LSB. > > When you are operating SSB, whether on your Drake or your Ten Tec rigs, > and you place your "carrier" at a given frequency (dial frequency) and > inject the same tones, you can expect to be transmitting at the same > frequency with either rig. If you set either rig at 14.070, and someone > else sets their rig at 14.070, and you both use the same audio frequency > tones, you would each be on the same frequency. > > The only problem that comes up is that someone will claim they are on > 14.070 and inject a 2000 Hz tone into their transmitter and of course > they are really on 14.072 and may be difficult to locate if the > receiving station expects them to be on 14.070. By specifying the > offset, such as 14.070 + 1000 Hz, you can expect that they will be 1000 > Hz higher than 14.070 and if using a waterfall display can pinpoint them > quite accurately. > > Some of the new modes are quite wide and are expecting that the tones > are going to be within a given standard bandwidth of frequencies since > they take up mu
[digitalradio] Offsets for digital modes
Paul, When you are on CW, many rigs will have an offset. I have an Argonaut V, and, as you noted, you can set the offset tone for your preference. That way you are zero beat with the other station and yet you can adjust your sidetone to what works best for you. With RTTY, the frequency specified was typically the mark with rigs using FSK. That is why there was some confusion from some hams who may be operating AFSK since their dial frequency on AFSK is going to be quite different than the dial readout on FSK. This is mostly dependent on how your rig is designed. For example, on my ICOM 756 Pro 2, if I zero beat on AFSK using SSB and then switch to FSK, it will place the tones with the mark tone of 2125 Hz. If I try to zero beat in RTTY mode, I would be over 2 KHz off. If I try to zero beat in CW I would of course be off by whatever offset I programmed into the rig, which in my case is going to be around 600 Hz. If you are using a sound card mode, you will be injecting tones into an SSB transmitter. The dial frequency is actually reading out your carrier frequency, but of course with SSB, for all practical purposes, there is no carrier being transmitted. The dial frequency is only a place holder, it is NOT the actual frequency you are transmitting. The actual frequency you are transmitting depends upon the frequency of the tone you are injecting into the transmitter and whether you are using USB or LSB. When you are operating SSB, whether on your Drake or your Ten Tec rigs, and you place your "carrier" at a given frequency (dial frequency) and inject the same tones, you can expect to be transmitting at the same frequency with either rig. If you set either rig at 14.070, and someone else sets their rig at 14.070, and you both use the same audio frequency tones, you would each be on the same frequency. The only problem that comes up is that someone will claim they are on 14.070 and inject a 2000 Hz tone into their transmitter and of course they are really on 14.072 and may be difficult to locate if the receiving station expects them to be on 14.070. By specifying the offset, such as 14.070 + 1000 Hz, you can expect that they will be 1000 Hz higher than 14.070 and if using a waterfall display can pinpoint them quite accurately. Some of the new modes are quite wide and are expecting that the tones are going to be within a given standard bandwidth of frequencies since they take up much of what we normally considered to be a voice bandwidth (e.g., 141A FAE, MT-63, SSTV). In such cases, when someone says they will be on a given frequency with these modes you can expect that both of you will use the same dial frequency and the tones will be placed correctly in your passband of the rig. 73, Rick, KV9U Paul wrote: > > What is the designation of 10.140 + 1000Hz? When I've looked at band > plans I sometimes see 20M psk designated as 14.070.150 More often it > is 14.070. When I tune, I tune to 14.070 with a Ten Tec Argo and Pegasus. > > However, the Drake is different. It doesn't accomodate the offset. For > example, on the TT, if I have my sidetone set to 600Hz, and a cw station > is on 7.100, I tune to 7.100 and hear him with a 600Hz note. With the > Drake, I'd have to tune to 7.100.6 (or 7.099.4?) to hear the station > with that tone. > > So with 10.140 + 1000 I'm guessing with the Ten Tec I'd tune to 10.140 > USB but with the Drake I'd tune to 10.141 USB. Is that how it goes? > If so, why is it 1000hz instead of 1500Hz? > > Thank you and 73, > Paul > >
