[digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
Hi Roger, ARRL was as confused as many other hams were by the new rules. That was understandable, considering how poorly written and self-contradictory they are. But, in the case of the 500Hz bandwidth limit, the FCC has already published guidelines in the RO to aid us in interpretation of their new rules. If there is to be any argument about interpretation of the rules, it is probably best to bet on the side of what FCC intended: 19. ...To accommodate the concern raised by ARRL, however, we will revise our rules to clarify that the 500 Hz limitation applies only to the emission types we are adding to the definition of data when transmitted on amateur service frequencies below 30 MHz. By amending the rule in this manner, the 500 bandwidth limitation will not apply to other data emission types or amateur service bands in which a higher symbol rate or bandwidth currently is permitted. After reading the FCC's own words, you can now clearly see that FCC never intended to limit the fast data modes that hams have been using for many years. Their intent is to only limit images sent in the data subbands to 500Hz bandwidth. Nothing more. There is no deception. Pactor-3 is legal on HF, as it always has been. In fact, Pactor-1 can now be used to send photos in the data subband. 73---Bonnie KQ6XA Is this topic header pretty deceptive? It appears to say that an FCC clarification of the new regs decides Pactor III to be OK on HF. But instead the author of this post is offering an opinion independent of the FCC and at variance with the determination of the ARRL staff. Opinions are OK, but not when presented as rulings when they are no such thing. de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
expeditionradio wrote: Hi Roger, ARRL was as confused as many other hams were by the new rules. That was understandable, considering how poorly written and self-contradictory they are. But, in the case of the 500Hz bandwidth limit, the FCC has already published guidelines in the RO to aid us in interpretation of their new rules. If there is to be any argument about interpretation of the rules, it is probably best to bet on the side of what FCC intended: 19. ...To accommodate the concern raised by ARRL, however, we will revise our rules to clarify that the 500 Hz limitation applies only to the emission types we are adding to the definition of data when transmitted on amateur service frequencies below 30 MHz. By amending the rule in this manner, the 500 bandwidth limitation will not apply to other data emission types or amateur service bands in which a higher symbol rate or bandwidth currently is permitted. After reading the FCC's own words, you can now clearly see that FCC never intended to limit the fast data modes that hams have been using for many years. Their intent is to only limit images sent in the data subbands to 500Hz bandwidth. Nothing more. There is no deception. Pactor-3 is legal on HF, as it always has been. In fact, Pactor-1 can now be used to send photos in the data subband. 73---Bonnie KQ6XA Actually, it is mostly Greek to me. I admit it. Are you saying that the above quote, beginning with the numeral 19 came out **after** the ARRL interpreted the regs as prohibiting Pactor 3? Or are you simply disagreeing with ARRL on the interpretation of the FCC regs? And how does this affect Olivia and MT-63? Since these modes were presumably included in the original definition of Data are they unaffected as well--i.e. 1Khz Olivia and MT-63 would be permitted below 30 Mhz? de Roger W6VZV
[digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
And how does this affect Olivia and MT-63? Since these modes were presumably included in the original definition of Data are they unaffected as well--i.e. 1Khz Olivia and MT-63 would be permitted below 30 Mhz? de Roger W6VZV Hi Roger, 1kHz and 2kHz bandwidth Olivia or MT63 are not affected by the new FCC rules for Data or Text. They are allowed just the same as they have been... no change. But keep in mind that the new rules don't allow transmission of an image in the data subbands using Olivia or MT63 (any bandwidth). You have to QSY to the phone band if you want to use Olivia or MT63 for sending images. Bonnie KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
I disagree. You can send images as long as the bandwidth is 500 Hz or less. That is what J2C is all about. A transmission can have more than one emissions designator as you have pointed out. You may start by sending J2B, then during the course of the QSO switch to J2C without ever changing the modulation type. With the image mode that is used with MFSK16 as employed by MixW, the emission there starts out as J2B, then switches to J3C, then back to J2B. But keep in mind that the new rules don't allow transmission of an image in the data subbands using Olivia or MT63 (any bandwidth). You have to QSY to the phone band if you want to use Olivia or MT63 for sending images. Bonnie KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
Roger, I will let Bonnie respond, but let me add my 2 cents. Paragraphs 15 through 19 address the rule changes which allow image emissions. Paragraph 19 has most of us confused because while it says we will revise our rules to clarify that the 500 Hz limitation applies only to the emission types we are adding to the definition of data; J2D was already in the definition of data before this revision. They also say the 500 bandwidth limitation will not apply to other data emission types or amateur service bands in which a higher symbol rate or bandwidth currently is permitted. There is a footnote to that sentence that references 97.305(c), 97.307(f)(3)-(8), (13). This would indicate that the intention of the revision to the definition is to add image emissions that have a maximum occupied bandwidth of 500 Hz. I am not sure why J2D was moved into the less than 500Hz area. I would only be guessing if I gave my hypothesis. 73, Mark N5RFX Actually, it is mostly Greek to me. I admit it. Are you saying that the above quote, beginning with the numeral 19 came out **after** the ARRL interpreted the regs as prohibiting Pactor 3? Or are you simply disagreeing with ARRL on the interpretation of the FCC regs? And how does this affect Olivia and MT-63? Since these modes were presumably included in the original definition of Data are they unaffected as well--i.e. 1Khz Olivia and MT-63 would be permitted below 30 Mhz? de Roger W6VZV
[digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
Bonnie, Why can't you use bandwidths of 500 or less in Olivia or MT63 to send images in the narrow subbands? My copy of gMFSK allows setting parameters of both protocols to values that should meet the requirements of the new FCC rules. I recognize MT63 may not have an occupied bandwidth of 500 Hz at its lowest setting, but I haven't researched that totally. Jim WA0LYK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But keep in mind that the new rules don't allow transmission of an image in the data subbands using Olivia or MT63 (any bandwidth). You have to QSY to the phone band if you want to use Olivia or MT63 for sending images. Bonnie KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
Jim, Yes, MT3 at 500Hz bandwidth may have an occupied bandwidth greater than 500 Hz. My spectrum analyzer has a hard time with bandwidths less than 500 Hz. I used to not have that problem with it, but I have changed something. I will have to check. I went through the resolution bandwidth and video bandwidth, but that did not help. The problem is that when I measure the occupied 26 db down, the bandwidth of a single tone it is 384 Hz. That used to not be the case. Maybe my delta 44 sound card is not as clean as I would have hoped. 73, Mark N5RFX At 11:56 AM 11/19/2006, you wrote: Bonnie, Why can't you use bandwidths of 500 or less in Olivia or MT63 to send images in the narrow subbands? My copy of gMFSK allows setting parameters of both protocols to values that should meet the requirements of the new FCC rules. I recognize MT63 may not have an occupied bandwidth of 500 Hz at its lowest setting, but I haven't researched that totally. Jim WA0LYK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: FCC Rules: Pactor-3 is OK on HF, and Pactor-1 is OK for Image.
Roger, I read what Bonnie quoted , it was in the FCC regs that were published several weeks ago prior to being included in the Federal Registrar. I assume the same language made it to the version that the Federal Registrar published. Andy, K3UK.
