Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard
Robert Chudek - K0RC wrote: > I know the AEA PK-232 used 200 Hz, as well as the Heathkit HK-232, but > the Kantronics _KAM_ series all used 170 Hz shift. That was the reason I > switched from the AEA to the KAM products. > > What Kantronics models used 200 Hz shift? > > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN Precisely, the KPC-2 used as dumb modem with an RTTY or pactor terminal. I made it run with Terman93. Sometimes it did well, sometimes, not so well...I added a tuning aid with two LEDs. Actually, the KPC-2 was intended only for packet... 73, Jose, CO2JA __ Participe en Universidad 2008. 11 al 15 de febrero del 2008. Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2008.cu
Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard
I know the AEA PK-232 used 200 Hz, as well as the Heathkit HK-232, but the Kantronics KAM series all used 170 Hz shift. That was the reason I switched from the AEA to the KAM products. What Kantronics models used 200 Hz shift? 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN - Original Message - From: Jose A. Amador To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard Kantronics and AEA too. I have a Communications Quarterly issue from the mid 90's somewhere here in which the author modifies its filters for 170 Hz and describes a great improvement for AMTOR...but also becomes almost useless for 300 baud packet. AM7910 modems have 200 Hz shift. Jose, CO2JA --- Brad wrote: > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Chudek - K0RC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> For amateur radio stations, 45.45 bauds and 170 Hz shift. >> > > > Don't be surprised to find some 200Hz shift there too. Kantronics or > someone used it as their standard, but generally, 170Hz machines had > no problem decoding it. > > Brad VK2QQ __ Participe en Universidad 2008. 11 al 15 de febrero del 2008. Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2008.cu
Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard
Jose A. Amador wrote: > Kantronics and AEA too. > > I have a Communications Quarterly issue from the mid 90's somewhere here > in which the author modifies A PK-232...forgot to include that > its filters for 170 Hz and describes a > great improvement for AMTOR...but also becomes almost useless for 300 > baud packet. Jose, CO2JA __ Participe en Universidad 2008. 11 al 15 de febrero del 2008. Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2008.cu
Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard
Kantronics and AEA too. I have a Communications Quarterly issue from the mid 90's somewhere here in which the author modifies its filters for 170 Hz and describes a great improvement for AMTOR...but also becomes almost useless for 300 baud packet. AM7910 modems have 200 Hz shift. Jose, CO2JA --- Brad wrote: > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Chudek - K0RC" <[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> For amateur radio stations, 45.45 bauds and 170 Hz shift. >> > > > Don't be surprised to find some 200Hz shift there too. Kantronics or > someone used it as their standard, but generally, 170Hz machines had > no problem decoding it. > > Brad VK2QQ __ Participe en Universidad 2008. 11 al 15 de febrero del 2008. Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2008.cu
[digitalradio] Re: RTTY Standard
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Chudek - K0RC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For amateur radio stations, 45.45 bauds and 170 Hz shift. > Don't be surprised to find some 200Hz shift there too. Kantronics or someone used it as their standard, but generally, 170Hz machines had no problem decoding it. Brad VK2QQ
Re: [digitalradio] Re: "RTTY standard"
Yes, Bill I love my old Boat Anchor electromechanical devices. And I still send my QSL cards out using U.S. Mail in an electronic world. I'd rather have a card in hand then on a glass tube. Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: "RTTY standard"
--- jhaynesatalumni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The number of developers of soundcard RTTY software > is pretty > small, so I think it's reasonable to ask them to > make software > interoperable with a mechanical TTY. K6STI was > concerned > about this with his RITTY program and worked out > end-of-line > processing that is satisfactory. W1HKJ has just > done the > same for gmfsk. If MMTTY and MixW and TrueTTY and > MultiPSK > and maybe a few others will come along it will make > the world > safe for historical purists. > Around 20 years ago when most were using the mechanical printers I put together a "glass" teletype. Wrote the program and had it set to look for the first space after about 65 characters and then send an end of line sequence. This help keep from breaking up words at the end of the line. If it did not get a space then it would send the EOL after 72 characters. I also had a way to defeat this so I could eidt the pix that were being sent at those times. Not difficult to program on an 8080 processor. The 'glass' teletype screen would automatically do a cr/lf when it got to the end of a line on the screen. It does seem the writers of the programs would do something similar to this for the old machine users. If using a mechanical teleprinter you are almost forced to do an EOL sequence while sending. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: "RTTY standard"
I'm sitting on the side, laughing my *** off, about this whole RTTY story. On the one hand, a user of a FREE program is insisting that the reply he gets is inadequate; while calling for adherence to a "Standard" that does not exist. The RTTY standard seems to be 'Do it yourself", but some simple expedients are ignored. If John wants to use his 'Boat Anchor' electromechanical device in an electronic world, let him add a simple electromechanical solution to his problem; a 'Micro-Switch' that triggers a relay when the type head hits(literally) the EOL, can be set to do many things, such as signal 'CR/LF', or ring a bell to get the operators attention. This way, he can prevent punching holes in his paper, while adhering to his electromechanical 'Purity'. Follow the Golden Rule-'He who furnishes the Gold (does the work) sets the rules'. This program (DxLab) is one of the best supported assemblies of complex procedures in existence. And the cost is Nada- Zilch- it's free. You should adapt to it, with your BA, not insist on someone else adapting it to archaic gadgets. Have fun-Bill-W4BSG jhaynesatalumni wrote: >The number of developers of soundcard RTTY software is pretty >small, so I think it's reasonable to ask them to make software >interoperable with a mechanical TTY. K6STI was concerned >about this with his RITTY program and worked out end-of-line >processing that is satisfactory. W1HKJ has just done the >same for gmfsk. If MMTTY and MixW and TrueTTY and MultiPSK >and maybe a few others will come along it will make the world >safe for historical purists. > >On the other hand, there are good reasons for putting something >electronic between the TU and the mechanical TTY. (I'm repeating >myself a lot lately.) If the mechanical TTY misses a STOP pulse >the receiving shaft keeps going and it will be several characters >before the machine gets back in sync. An electronic intermediary >can note the missing STOP pulse and supply one to the machine to >prevent the multi-character error. Otherwise the machine will >always be at a disadvantage when competing with electronic >receiving equipment. > >K6STI added a feature to RITTY providing an output signal to drive >a printer with cleaned-up Baudot when receiving. I wish other >programmers would do likewise. > > > > > >Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org > >Other areas of interest: > >The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ >DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- Bill Aycock W4BSG Woodville, Alabama Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: "RTTY standard"
The number of developers of soundcard RTTY software is pretty small, so I think it's reasonable to ask them to make software interoperable with a mechanical TTY. K6STI was concerned about this with his RITTY program and worked out end-of-line processing that is satisfactory. W1HKJ has just done the same for gmfsk. If MMTTY and MixW and TrueTTY and MultiPSK and maybe a few others will come along it will make the world safe for historical purists. On the other hand, there are good reasons for putting something electronic between the TU and the mechanical TTY. (I'm repeating myself a lot lately.) If the mechanical TTY misses a STOP pulse the receiving shaft keeps going and it will be several characters before the machine gets back in sync. An electronic intermediary can note the missing STOP pulse and supply one to the machine to prevent the multi-character error. Otherwise the machine will always be at a disadvantage when competing with electronic receiving equipment. K6STI added a feature to RITTY providing an output signal to drive a printer with cleaned-up Baudot when receiving. I wish other programmers would do likewise. Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: "RTTY standard"
Soundcard software that does not automatically insert a CR-LF sequence after sending 72 characters is no less compatible with the "RTTY standard" John cites than are his mechanical teleprinters. If I'm using a mechanical teleprinter in a RTTY QSO and I type more than 72 characters, does the teleprinter automatically insert an outgoing CR-LF sequence? No, it does not. The operator is responsible for conformance with the standard. If I'm using soundcard software in a RTTY QSO and I notice that I'm coming close to having typed 72 characters and so strike the Newline key, does the software generate a CR-LF sequence? I know that mine does. Again, the operator is responsible for conformance with the standard, and that conformance is no less difficult than with a mechanical teleprinter. In fact, its one keystroke easier. John requested automation to facilitate compliance with the standard -- compliance that is currently an operator responsibility whether one is using a mechanical teleprinter or soundcard software. His request was for developers of soundcard software to include the automation. I simply pointed out an alternative approach that John could implement himself, rather than depend on the coincident good graces of the multiple developers who produce soundcard RTTY software. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Paul L Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > John Becker wrote: > > At 11:37 PM 3/18/06, you wrote: > > > > > >>Rather than expect everyone else to compensate for your equipment's > >>limitations, why don't you design and build a circuit that counts > >>incoming characters and inserts a CR/LF after receiving 72. Doing > >>this with something programmable like a Basic Stamp would be a no- > >>brainer, but implementing it with relay logic would nicely > >>complement to your 28s. Some big old stepping relays would be > >>perfect! > >> > > Dave may I point out that once upon a time before Al Gore > > invented the internet and there was computers there was > > RTTY machines. And while using these machines if one did > > not hit the CR/LF at the end of a line (72 charters) the person > > on the receiving end would get a hole pounded in the paper > > these machines used. > > > > That is what we call a "standard". A RTTY line is 72 charters long. > > Has been that way for the 35 years that I have been on RTTY. > > > > Now I can not add word wrap me my machines and since there > > is still a hell of a lot of these machines still in use why not add > > the CR/LF to the software? > > > > Pease for once *DO NOT* spin, twist, or turn 180 out what I have > > said. You are very good at that. > > This seems to be a common theme among certain software companies, > also: > - Adopt a standard > - Change its use > - Make the world think it's your standard > - Tell everyone they need to use your version of the standard if > they are going to be 'compatible'. > > Computer terminals and soundcard modems did RTTY, initially since it > provided compatibility with an existing installed base of users. > > To tell the existing base of users to update their equipment because > those who emulated it with software did it incompletely is a rather > odd way do things. > > 73, > > - ps > Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
