Re: [digitalradio] Revised FCC rules for data/image communication
Good point, Joe, on 160 not being an HF frequency band. Although most of us do tend to lump it in with the other HF frequencies. The change on 80 meters I bet is almost shocking to ARRL since I can not imagine that they would have wanted the competition to many of the traffic nets that operate in the mid 3600's. Ironically, then, this means that the digital portions of the 80 and 40 meter bands will be reduced does it not? You won't be able to operate any of the digital modes, except CW, above 3600. This means that a number of Pactor operations will be forced to operate in a much smaller subband. So wouldn't the Pactor and other wide band modes wreak even more havoc with the change? Your view that SSTV would fill the non-phone bands if they could operate there seems misplaced. If you operate much SSTV, you know that the stations are often chatting on SSB analog voice and use it to coordinate the sending of images. I am beginning to think that those of us who are in the older category, and who want to be able to coordinate images and data with voice may not see this in our lifetime, except on 160 (where it is very rare) and VHF and up. One thing that may come of this is more development of combination image/data modes that keep within the 500 Hz bandwidth. But, it is going to be a bit complicated in that you can send wide bandwidth data in the non-phone portion of the HF bands, but if you want to switch to image you have to use a narrow band mode. And conversely, when you are on the phone bands, you still won't be able to send data unless it is an image. I wonder how the Bandwidth proposal will play out now that they have preempted some of the frequencies that some of us thought would be digital but now will be phone/digital voice/image? 73, Rick, KV9U Joe Veldhuis wrote: 160 meters is MF, not HF. Else the digital bands could be filled with wide SSTV, leaving no room for RTTY, PSK31 and the like. Just look at the havoc that 2KC-wide Pactor 3 signals are wreaking already. Despite the paranoid rants posted earlier, the intent of this rule change, as I understand it, is merely to allow US hams to use the analog image feature of MFSK16 (which is no wider than the digital text mode, just 316 Hz); to solidify the legal status of Feldhell, considered by some interpretations to be an image mode, either analog or digital depending on how you look at it; and permit future experimentation with similar modes. -Joe, KD8ATU Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Revised FCC rules for data/image communication
I understand most of the new FCC rule changes that will go into effect on 11 Nov 06, but I am a bit confused when it comes to the digital changes. Under Item 15 below, they state: Nevertheless, our Part 97 rules do not now authorize amateur stations to transmit both image and data emission types on any HF frequency segments, I am probably misunderstanding something, but I had thought that we could transmit both image and data and voice throughout the 160 meter band. It is not necessarily meeting the band plans, but I had thought the FCC rules permitted it. Hopefully, others will have a lot more understanding than I have on what it is they are permitting on the data portions of the bands which to me means anything that is not the phone section. If I understand it, they will allow both analog and digital image in the non-phone areas, but only if they are narrow bandwith or under 500 Hz? But no data to be transmitted in the phone areas except for image and digital voice. I am very disappointed if we can not include data when using WinDRM types of programs in the phone portion of the band and I can not understand their reasoning on this. Unless what they really mean is that you could use WinDRM (wide band modes) in the phone section to transmit data, but you can not use the narrow band modes in the phone band section such as RTTY. I find Item 19 to be not fully clear about NOT accepting the ARRL's request to NOT impose a 500 Hz bandwidth limitation in the data area: ARRL also requests that we not impose a 500 Hz bandwidth limitation in the definition of data emissions, arguing that this limitation would have unintended consequences because the limitation also applies to amateur service bands in which a higher symbol rate or bandwidth is permitted. We understand ARRL's concern, but we note that eliminating or relaxing the bandwidth limitation would de facto eliminate the separation of narrow bandwidth and wide bandwidth emissions. We believe that separation of emission types by bandwidth is accepted in the amateur service as a reasonable means to minimize interference on shared frequencies and bands and, therefore, we will not replace the 500 Hz bandwidth limitation with a 3 kHz bandwidth limitation. To accommodate the concern raised by ARRL, however, we will revise our rules to clarify that the 500 Hz limitation applies only to the emission types we are adding to the definition of data when transmitted on amateur service frequencies below 30 MHz. By amending the rule in this manner, the 500 bandwidth limitation will not apply to other data emission types or amateur service bands in which a higher symbol rate or bandwidth currently is permitted. It seems to be saying that there is some kind of narrow bandwidth limitation in the non-phone parts of the HF bands. I had thought that this new rulemaking would define those different areas, but it seems that they have sidestepped this (unless this is something additional that is still pending?) When they say they will not replace the 500 Hz bandwidth limitation with a 3 kHz bandwidth, they appear to only be referring to the newly permitted modes being 500 Hz? And those newly permitted modes are basically analog FAX and analog image? Could you use WinDRM on the non-phone areas as long as you were sending data, but when you wanted to send images, you would have to use something else since it doesn't accomodate? Is this the final decision on how the bands were to be divided up, or is there another NPRM for that to be decided later on? What about the whole issue of baud rates exceeding the 300 baud speed? I apologize to those who think these are dumb questions, but I really find it confusing. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: New FCC rulesdigital related, see below. Oct 10, 2006 . 15. Image Emissions. Background. Amateur radio operators have recently been using personal computers with sound cards and software to develop new communication systems and technologies that are capable of transmitting both image and data emission types. One system in use, for instance, combines a digital emission and a narrowband facsimile (FAX) emission. Another system, sometimes referred to as the Hellschriber system, uses transmitted pulses to directly write images on paper or a computer screen. Amateur radio operators worldwide have been using these new communications systems without causing harmful interference to other amateur service communications. Such use appears to be consistent with one of the purposes of amateur service, namely, to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. Nevertheless, our Part 97 rules do not now authorize amateur stations to transmit both image and data emission types on any HF frequency segments, though they do authorize image emission types to be transmitted on frequency segments also authorized for phone communications. 16. In the NPRM, the Commission sought comment
Re: [digitalradio] Revised FCC rules for data/image communication
KV9U wrote: Nevertheless, our Part 97 rules do not now authorize amateur stations to transmit both image and data emission types on any HF frequency segments, I am probably misunderstanding something, but I had thought that we could transmit both image and data and voice throughout the 160 meter band. It is not necessarily meeting the band plans, but I had thought the FCC rules permitted it. 160 meters is MF, not HF. Hopefully, others will have a lot more understanding than I have on what it is they are permitting on the data portions of the bands which to me means anything that is not the phone section. If I understand it, they will allow both analog and digital image in the non-phone areas, but only if they are narrow bandwith or under 500 Hz? Correct. Else the digital bands could be filled with wide SSTV, leaving no room for RTTY, PSK31 and the like. Just look at the havoc that 2KC-wide Pactor 3 signals are wreaking already. Despite the paranoid rants posted earlier, the intent of this rule change, as I understand it, is merely to allow US hams to use the analog image feature of MFSK16 (which is no wider than the digital text mode, just 316 Hz); to solidify the legal status of Feldhell, considered by some interpretations to be an image mode, either analog or digital depending on how you look at it; and permit future experimentation with similar modes. -Joe, KD8ATU Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
