Re: [digitalradio] SSB Phone versus other modes
When it comes to emergency communications, phone is not an option, but a necessary mode for most conditions. It is the only practical mode that gives you the instant knowledge that someone has received your information. Nothing else can ever take the place of human speech in such cases due to the immediacy. But phone has its limits with speed of transmission and requirement of very good signals. Most communications during emergencies tend to be fairly brief. Where is your location? We need 35 cots at the shelter here in Newton. The disaster triage site has one ambulance leaving for MHCS with 2 patients with following conditions. These are not communications that are practical to send in a timely manner with most digital technology. Also, you absolutely must at least insure that another human actually received the information. You would not use e-mail /BBS types of technology to handle that kind of traffic unless you just had no other choice. On the other hand, digital communications gives us the ability to send larger amounts of data that would be difficult or even impractical to send via phone transmissions. And it can be more accurate if using ARQ modes. And newer digital technology works with much weaker signals than phone, sometimes rivaling even CW. And CW requires very savvy ops at both ends and that is something nearly impossible to find with the ever shrinking number of CW savvy operators who would be involved with public service activities. If the information is being relayed through different operators to a distant point, then it helps to know what modes will be used. For multi mode relays through CW, digital, and voice, (or if you don't know for sure) there are often severe limitations to the type and length of data. That is why ARRL Radiograms or something must be used in those cases. From what I have seen over the last 45+ years since I was first licensed, many more of us are involved in public service communications on a regular basis, particularly the rather substantial participation in Skywarn and weather related spotting. We also may support other public service communications, such as rendezvous, large scale runs, bikes, adventure racing, etc. Emergencies occur almost every day but are taken care of by government protective service employees. It is not often that we will be called upon for an actual communications emergency, but it does happen from time and to time and realistically we will only be ready to use our regularly developed skills. We may also be asked to provide non-communications services such as Disaster Assessment. Most participants in public service today tend to be the newer hams who are VHF/UHF oriented. This tells us where the focus of our use of technology must be. From repeated queries, I have found that most weak signal enthusiasts, particularly VHF, tend to stay focused on that interest and not much interest in public service. And I also agree with David, that those who do not have keyboarding skills will not be involved in most digital communications. This may not be a problem with new hams since there is a good chance that they will have at least rudimentary keyboarding skills. In my rural area, there has been a resurgence of interest in a horizontally polarized SSB phone only VHF activity night due to the promotion by a ham about 200 miles away who often provides NCS duties. Even so, I have only found one or two hams who had the necessary interest in any VHF digital activity at this time. Not enough to make a critical mass of digital operators for a practical deployment toward emergency communications. Of course I keep trying and will be having a club demonstration again in November, HI. 73, Rick, KV9U Moderator, HFDEC (Hams for Disaster and Emergency Communications) yahoogroup David Little wrote: > > > Andy, > > This is a topic of discussion that is raging on behind the lines in > Emergency Communications also. > > The fundamental thing that many miscalculate is how the Intel that is > to be sent digitally is gathered and relayed to someone with the > capabilities to "digitize" > > In this debate, a lot of babies have been thrown out with the bath > water already. > > Please keep the most rudimentary concept of communications in mind in > this discussion. It is like factoring to prime numbers. > > One day, everyone will have a total mobile digital station as an > option in their cars at point of purchase. > > However, we aren't there yet, and we have to rely on what is available > if we are to offer a useful service to the community to pay for our > keep (and spectrum). > > Voice Ops will always be an option; especially in the first 96 hours > when everyone is scrambling to restore enough damaged infrastructure > to get back on the air. > > Again, as "hunter gatherers" someone must collect the Intel or "ground > truth" that is to be sent via digital means. > > However,
Re: [digitalradio] SSB Phone versus other modes
Andy wrote: > Today for example, I worked NX7F 559 on CW, then barely readable on phone, 339 > at best, then 100% copy on PSK31. I know your point is really about digital modes required S/N, but a bit of a pet peeve on the CW operations it's perceived usefulness as a backup mode: I find that many of the " I worked xyz 599 on CW" examples are minimal exchanges, barely above RST. And most of them are canned macro's. IE: It's not a real exchange of information that would be useful outside of hobby "make a contact & log" operations. And certainly not a rag-chew round table or message handling like you see on SSB. Yes, there are true blue CW rag-chewers, as well as hard core message handling, but that seems to be evaporating as macro operation has taken over. Many friends who view themselves as hard-core CW operators have the typical ur 5nn memorized, etc, but fall apart when it goes beyond that. Yes, they can copy calls, but if the dialog goes free form, all the sudden panic ensues. :-) I make no pretensions, my marginal 10-11 wpm is done the hard way, lot's of concentration and pen in hand. In portable ops on HF, we quite often fall back to cw as needed. I can send using my mic buttons and have many times. But I'd never count on that for "serious" comms. :-) There is more ragchew on psk, but still quite a bit of macro operators. Nothing in the digi modes that make rag-chew harder, just does not seem to be as common. Even with all the hard core DX & contest operations taking over SSB sub-bands, I still see far more rag-chew on SSB than any other mode. Have fun, Alan km4ba
RE: [digitalradio] SSB Phone versus other modes
Andy, This is a topic of discussion that is raging on behind the lines in Emergency Communications also. The fundamental thing that many miscalculate is how the Intel that is to be sent digitally is gathered and relayed to someone with the capabilities to "digitize" In this debate, a lot of babies have been thrown out with the bath water already. Please keep the most rudimentary concept of communications in mind in this discussion. It is like factoring to prime numbers. One day, everyone will have a total mobile digital station as an option in their cars at point of purchase. However, we aren't there yet, and we have to rely on what is available if we are to offer a useful service to the community to pay for our keep (and spectrum). Voice Ops will always be an option; especially in the first 96 hours when everyone is scrambling to restore enough damaged infrastructure to get back on the air. Again, as "hunter gatherers" someone must collect the Intel or "ground truth" that is to be sent via digital means. However, Amateur Radio is less about public service now than it has been in the past, and many don't consider Emergency Communications as something they are interested in. As far as DX goes, that is another battle altogether. Many who chase weak signals are deeply involved in the modes that were available when they were first licensed. Some (an un-known quantity), don't have email, internet or computer access. Some have never had their hands on a typewriter; much less a keyboard. Some don't own a microphone. To them , the topic is a non-starter. To the technician who has stayed on weak-signal VHF and above long enough to learn about propagation patterns, coax losses, antenna gain, AOS/LOS, line of sight, etc...These are most likely to continue to learn as they progress in their license upgrade path. They tend to see the full picture, and having to work harder for each line of sight or tropo-enhanced contact already have fairly well sized up the importance of good operating techniques, and what is needed to get the job done. They have already found that you will make more contacts on HF with a wire by mistake than you will ever make above 50MHz using proper operating techniques, a good station that is properly put together and mindful every step of the away of the losses and need for efficient operations as they move from the approximately 7MHz total of HF spectrum to the Gazillions of MHz of spectrum available to them, if they will develop the gear and skills to use it. They will be the ones that may carry 20th Century technology into the 21st century. The one day extras that come in to a test session with no license and exit with an extra; not so much. The CW ops that can't find a Microphone, but have a half-dozen keys around; not so much. Folks that enjoy and are heavily invested in ESSB; not so much Folks that are equally involved in both Voice and Digital ops, and understanding the need for each, and at what point in the timeline that need is most apparent; preaching to the Choir. Digital Only ops - "When the Ohms jump out of the Pot, look out!" Don't put all your eggs in one basket. By and large; "specialization is for insects" when it comes down to survival. Just a few thoughts, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:54 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] SSB Phone versus other modes I wonder why some folks bother with phone, especially under weak conditions. It sure is fun to just "talk" but the performance of SSB phone versus other modes continues to amaze me. Trying for the LOTW TP award has caused me to use SSB phone more of late, and I am often encountering situations where we switch from CW to digital and then to phone for the award. Today for example, I worked NX7F 559 on CW, then barely readable on phone, 339 at best, then 100% copy on PSK31. I wonder if there are many phone ops who do not yet do the other modes? They would be shocked at how much less shouting they would need to do if they pursued DX in CW or digital modes. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] SSB Phone versus other modes
I wonder why some folks bother with phone, especially under weak conditions. It sure is fun to just "talk" but the performance of SSB phone versus other modes continues to amaze me. Trying for the LOTW TP award has caused me to use SSB phone more of late, and I am often encountering situations where we switch from CW to digital and then to phone for the award. Today for example, I worked NX7F 559 on CW, then barely readable on phone, 339 at best, then 100% copy on PSK31. I wonder if there are many phone ops who do not yet do the other modes? They would be shocked at how much less shouting they would need to do if they pursued DX in CW or digital modes. Andy K3UK
