Re: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field?
dear howard would be nice if you write a HOT TO . file and load it up in the filearea greetz dg9bfc - Original Message - From: Howard Z. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:51 AM Subject: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field? Could you comment further on your experiences with RFSM? 73, Rick, KV9U My local MARS group has been experimenting with RFSM8000. Like MIXW, it is made in Russia, and the author wants to earn some money selling it. Free trial licenses are available. RFSM8000 uses the Mil-Spec modem - I forgot the modem number - but it is the same one used by MARS/ALE. It is supposed to reach 8000bps under good conditions on HF. I typically experience under 600bps. Some say its techniques to get high speed make it illegal for US Hams. European HAMs are using it. MARS does not use the HAM bands, so its OK for MARS. Just because MARS is experimenting with it, does not mean it is adapted by MARS or that it is even a desirable mode. MARS plays with everything and seems to like having almost every tool in their tool-box. MARS even has CW nets. RFSM8000 has three functions: 1. keyboarding NETs - somewhat similar to PSK31. Since we have PSk31, MT63, OLIVIA, and other modes that give similar functionality. 2. file transfers from one user to another user. Most think EasyPal is better. Maybe when we get further along in the sunspot cycle, RFSM8000 will achieve higher speeds and be the file x-fer method of choice? I don't know - time will tell. 3. Email Server. This is the most interesting function. Let's say a disaster area has no internet and can reach an RFSM8000 email server which has internet capability. Then those without internet can connect (one at a time - similar to a winlink RMS) to send and receive email. The Email server sends all users emails using the single server's email address. The subject will start with the originator's call-sign. When the recipient of the email hits reply, he needs to remove the Re: from the subject so the subject starts with the call-sign. The reply email goes back to the email-server's email address, and is routed to the appropriate user's mailbox for pickup by that callsign over HF radio. The simplicity of this compared to Winlink is that there are no CMS email servers that it needs to reach. It is not a huge email system. All that needs to be reachable on the internet is the SMTP server of the ISP the email server is using, and the POP3 server the email server is using. The POP3 server can be ISP's email, or some other email, like gmail, gmx, or any other free email service on the web which uses POP3. Currently RFSM8000 can not make SECURED pop3 connections, and many email systems on the internet do not allow unsecured pop3 connections. So this limits one as to which free emails one can use. Whether the RFSM8000 email server has internet or not, RFSM8000 users can send mail to CALLSIGNS which connect via HF to the RFSM8000 email server. MARS preferred message handling system is WINLINK. If Winlink is broken or unreachable this can be an option. However, it is not clear to me what kind of disaster would make Winlink unusable. Now, on my computer, I have a solution for how to connect to a SECURED pop3 email provider. I have hmailserver running on my computer - it is a SMTP and POP3 email server. RFSM8000 checks its email by going to localhost POP3 unsecured. The hmailserver routinely sucks in mail into the account from a secured POP3 email server - such as COMCAST's POP3 email server. hmailserver can use secured and unsecured pop3 email servers on the internet, and can accept secured and unsecured pop3 connections. But, it may be a bit much for the average ham to install and configure. So the initial lure is 8000bps file transfers and 8000bps email transfers. We are not seeing such high speeds under current NVIS conditions. Howard
Re: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field?
Howard, Appreciate your comments on RFSM. Not many have tried it. I have found the speed to be very similar to what you have been experiencing. Even with my experimental set up here in the shack with two computers/two rigs, it does not often get much above 1000 bps with a perfect path. This is using the RFSM2400 freeware program. The RFSM8000 product seems to be more oriented to the higher speeds, but does not meet the slower MIL-STD-188-110A 75 bps very robust mode. Which is a shame, since the most robust modes are necessary to have something that can compete with similar modes such as Pactor. While you can not legally use MIL-STD-188-110A single tone modems in the MF/HF U.S. RTTY/Data portions of the bands, there does not seem to be any restriction in the phone/image portions. I have asked FCC for an interpretation of this but they simply will not respond. Yes, MARS has gone back to having CW nets. That was quite a reversal for them since they prohibited CW for a number of years. I did not realize that you can do keyboarding with RFSM. Maybe this is only possible with the newer RFSM8000 product? In fact that seemed like a significant limitation with RFSM2400. You could easily do ARQ file transfers, and the stations would constantly be testing back and forth, waiting for the next message but I did not see any way to get a keyboard type window open unless I completely missed it. The server feature is quite interesting, sounds similar to the PSKmail server, which is an ad hoc approach without the incredibly complications of Winlink 2000's system, however, you give up some of the convenience features. It sounds like you have considerable expertise with setting up such a system to e-mail access. At this time it is still a moot point for HF since you can not use for HF text messaging as mentioned above. Of course, it is completely legal to use on 6 meters and up which allows for much higher baud rates than the quasi 2400 baud rate of the MIL-STD-188-110A modems. I wonder if this would have any possible use for providing localized connectivity for VHF? 73, Rick, KV9U Howard Z. wrote: My local MARS group has been experimenting with RFSM8000. Like MIXW, it is made in Russia, and the author wants to earn some money selling it. Free trial licenses are available. RFSM8000 uses the Mil-Spec modem - I forgot the modem number - but it is the same one used by MARS/ALE. It is supposed to reach 8000bps under good conditions on HF. I typically experience under 600bps. Some say its techniques to get high speed make it illegal for US Hams. European HAMs are using it. MARS does not use the HAM bands, so its OK for MARS. Just because MARS is experimenting with it, does not mean it is adapted by MARS or that it is even a desirable mode. MARS plays with everything and seems to like having almost every tool in their tool-box. MARS even has CW nets. RFSM8000 has three functions: 1. keyboarding NETs - somewhat similar to PSK31. Since we have PSk31, MT63, OLIVIA, and other modes that give similar functionality. 2. file transfers from one user to another user. Most think EasyPal is better. Maybe when we get further along in the sunspot cycle, RFSM8000 will achieve higher speeds and be the file x-fer method of choice? I don't know - time will tell. 3. Email Server. This is the most interesting function. Let's say a disaster area has no internet and can reach an RFSM8000 email server which has internet capability. Then those without internet can connect (one at a time - similar to a winlink RMS) to send and receive email. The Email server sends all users emails using the single server's email address. The subject will start with the originator's call-sign. When the recipient of the email hits reply, he needs to remove the Re: from the subject so the subject starts with the call-sign. The reply email goes back to the email-server's email address, and is routed to the appropriate user's mailbox for pickup by that callsign over HF radio. The simplicity of this compared to Winlink is that there are no CMS email servers that it needs to reach. It is not a huge email system. All that needs to be reachable on the internet is the SMTP server of the ISP the email server is using, and the POP3 server the email server is using. The POP3 server can be ISP's email, or some other email, like gmail, gmx, or any other free email service on the web which uses POP3. Currently RFSM8000 can not make SECURED pop3 connections, and many email systems on the internet do not allow unsecured pop3 connections. So this limits one as to which free emails one can use. Whether the RFSM8000 email server has internet or not, RFSM8000 users can send mail to CALLSIGNS which connect via HF to the RFSM8000 email server. MARS preferred message handling system is WINLINK. If Winlink is broken or unreachable this can be an
Re: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field?
Rick, we are doing a bit better on speeds with RFSM8000. We sometimes get up to 3200. Maybe it depends on the bandwidth available. I open my transmitter to 3 kHz and my receiver even wider. Have not tried on FM / VHF yet but hope to do that soon. Even at 600 or 1200 it is so much faster than the alternatives that nothing compares to it. I don't have an SCS modem so that is not an alternative to me. This is valuable when sending messages or files. We had bad band conditions this evening and I was able to receive a 29k spreadsheet in 11 minutes and 40 seconds. The Broadcast feature of the RFSM8000 version allows you to chat without being connected. This could be used to run a net. Howard Brown (The other Howard) From: Rick W [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:58:12 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field? Howard, Appreciate your comments on RFSM. Not many have tried it. I have found the speed to be very similar to what you have been experiencing. Even with my experimental set up here in the shack with two computers/two rigs, it does not often get much above 1000 bps with a perfect path. This is using the RFSM2400 freeware program. The RFSM8000 product seems to be more oriented to the higher speeds, but does not meet the slower MIL-STD-188- 110A 75 bps very robust mode. Which is a shame, since the most robust modes are necessary to have something that can compete with similar modes such as Pactor. While you can not legally use MIL-STD-188- 110A single tone modems in the MF/HF U.S. RTTY/Data portions of the bands, there does not seem to be any restriction in the phone/image portions. I have asked FCC for an interpretation of this but they simply will not respond. Yes, MARS has gone back to having CW nets. That was quite a reversal for them since they prohibited CW for a number of years. I did not realize that you can do keyboarding with RFSM. Maybe this is only possible with the newer RFSM8000 product? In fact that seemed like a significant limitation with RFSM2400. You could easily do ARQ file transfers, and the stations would constantly be testing back and forth, waiting for the next message but I did not see any way to get a keyboard type window open unless I completely missed it. The server feature is quite interesting, sounds similar to the PSKmail server, which is an ad hoc approach without the incredibly complications of Winlink 2000's system, however, you give up some of the convenience features. It sounds like you have considerable expertise with setting up such a system to e-mail access. At this time it is still a moot point for HF since you can not use for HF text messaging as mentioned above. Of course, it is completely legal to use on 6 meters and up which allows for much higher baud rates than the quasi 2400 baud rate of the MIL-STD-188- 110A modems. I wonder if this would have any possible use for providing localized connectivity for VHF? 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] You Have Mail Re: How Can We Push Emcomm Messages to the Field?
Howard, Good discussion. For public service/emergency, we need to keep things simple and ideally self contained. D-Star's selective calling feature could be useful and avoids some of the shortcomings of other selcal systems such as DCS. My wife and I were very early adopters of the DCS technology, but it never worked out well, annoying others openly monitoring and repeaters may not pass the tones. D-Star avoids those issues. I admit that if all the participants cooperated with using DCS, then this could work quite well. In public service events/emergencies, you will find that most operators will want to know everything that is unfolding as they are mobile and are likely to be listening to the traffic on the frequencies they are monitoring. This also helps them determine if they are staying in range of the other station(s). If message traffic needs to be passed to them or from them, then phone is one of the safest and most practical methods when in motion unless they have another operator aboard. The big question is how to get increased range for both distance and shaded areas. D-Star is going to have slightly shorter range and has difficulty with multipath, assuming the local hams have this equipment, so it may not be the best choice. The strongest point about D-Star is for those operators who want to link through the internet and needless to say, you don't want to include the internet as a requirement for your emergency communications to function properly. SSB phone is currently the best voice mode available by far, when it comes to increased simplex range, but is more expensive than FM only rigs, since you can only get this technology in a combined HF/VHF/UHF transceiver . But some of these rigs are actually no more expensive than D-Star ($700) and give you tremendous value. When you get to your destination, you may have more options, depending on the equipment you brought or is set up for you. Even HF could be used, although not very likely for most locations. HF is normally reserved for a central point that may need to forward traffic out of an affected area and you would not want local tactical traffic on wider area HF nets. At almost any location, you should be able to erect some kind of short mast, fixed direction 2 meter gain antenna to get back to your HQ station. This will give you the 24/7 kind of communication that is not available on HF. Then you could use packet, phone, or other modes that have been decided by your group. Could you comment further on your experiences with RFSM? 73, Rick, KV9U Howard Z. wrote: Well, let me see. 2m/70cm D-star radios can communicate with each other without a repeater. These radios can send audio and slow speed data simultaneously. The slow speed data can be displayed on the radio's screen or on a laptop connected to the radio. The call-sign squelch should work without a repeater. When call-sign squelch is enabled, no voice transmissions or data transmissions will be received unless it is address to that radio's call-sign. Of course the radio must be constantly turned on. The power consumption will be very low because o it is not transmitting while waiting for a message with its callsign o The speaker is off/squelched until a message arrives with its callsign Disadvantages of d-star are: o It is overpriced compared to similar FM only non-Dstar radios. Compared to digital P25 radios that government bodies buy, it is low cost. But most Amateurs are not going to spend their own money on D- star until the prices drop and it becomes only $100 more than a similar FM only dual bander. ICOM's IC91AD handheld was reasonably priced without the d-star board, and not too much extra for d-star. But the other dual band d-star radios have been priced much higher than Icom's FM only radios. o When the signal is not strong enough voice gets very squeally sounding. Most would rather listen to weak FM signals than the D- star squeal. o You simply can not assume your volunteer workforce will have these radios unless your organization purchases them. As I mentioned earlier, one can get similar functionality - a radio that is quiet unless VOICE is received with that radio's squelch code. You can divy out a dozen or so squelch codes for your teams to use in their FM radios. The prevailing radio-email systems require receivers to routinely check into a radio email server to check for mail. This can be automated to be every X minutes (for example every 10 minutes) with Paclink software. So you keep an email server up - like RMS Packet with RMS Relay software, and the field units use Paclink software. If your email server has its internet down, the email capabilities will be limited to sending and receiving email messages among your email server and Paclink stations that directly connect to it via radio. Error-free delivery of the emails is guaranteed with
