Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On > Behalf Of Bill Horne > > My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for > home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the > usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. > TIA. For a desktop, no-cost, you have: Virtualbox on any platform. VMWare Player on windows or linux. Since there's only one no-cost option on a mac, the question becomes - is it worthwhile to pay for Fusion or Parallels on the mac? And I say yes if you use it on time that you're paid to be working. No, if you're a student who just wants to do cool stuff for free. For a server, I would recommend nothing other than VMWare ESXi. Xen is crap, Virtualbox sucks for servers, I'll just mention MS in passing... And what else is there? Sure you could do something like KVM on a linux host, but why would you? In that case, replace the linux host with ESXi on bare metal, and make the linux host actually a guest. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
If you want to run Windows as a VM on a Linux host, there's always KVM. It's all native Linux, no proprietary licenses to worry about. I've used it to run Linux guest VMs, but a quick google search turns up a bunch of links about running a Windows 7 guest under KVM. On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Bill Horne wrote: > I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. > > Eric Chadbourne wrote: > >> Hi Ed, >> > > How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard >> recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project >> for that. >> I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? >> > > > My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for > home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the > usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. > TIA. > > Bill > > > -- > E. William Horne > 339-364-8487 > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email: abre...@gmail.com / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6 PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23 C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On 2/12/2015 4:57 PM, Joe Polcari wrote: Says it's fixed? Three years to fix a bug that crashes the VM and takes out the host with it. No, I had to stop using VirtualBox because of this bug and a three year turnaround on a fix isn't going to get me to change my mind about not using it. VMware offers a free version of VMware Player for personal use. It's a lot like what VMware Workstation was before Workstation became an enterprise-grade product. I'm partial to VMware's products for desktop use because they maintain feature parity across concurrent releases, something that Parallels doesn't (at least didn't last time I checked which was a few years ago) which complicates copying VMs between different host operating systems. Xen is really nice for what it is but it isn't something that I would use for a personal box. While it starts with GRUB and a Linux kernel, the dom0 which controls the domU's is itself a virtualized environment running above the Xen hypervisor. As such it does not have direct access to the hardware so no accelerated graphics and sometimes no audio. Xen is most excellent for virtualizing servers. KVM is probably better for a personal box since you have a Linux kernel running on the bare metal instead of a Xen hypervisor. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On 2/12/2015 4:16 PM, Martin Owens wrote: No, that's what the general public does. Apple is anti-foss, not just neutral to FOSS when you tot up their track record. https://www.apple.com/opensource/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/ The first link is a list of all of the FOSS projects that Apple ships with OS X. Some like GCC and LLVM are projects that Apple has contributed improvements. Others like CUPS are projects that Apple has opened up from within. The second link is the top level reference to the source code to the core Unix OS (Darwin) for every OS X and iOS release ever published. Apple isn't anti-FOSS. Apple is anti-GPLv3, and I for one don't blame them for that. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
Says it's fixed? -Original Message- From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+joe=polcari@blu.org] On Behalf Of Greg Rundlett (freephile) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 1:51 PM To: Jack Coats Cc: BLU Discussion List Subject: Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there? I've been using VirtualBox, but need to check out Xen because VirtualBox locks up hard due to a 3-yr old networking bug that isn't getting any attention. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10624 https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 Greg Rundlett http://eQuality-Tech.com http://freephile.org On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Jack Coats wrote: > Like Xen (xenproject.org)? > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne wrote: > > > I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. > > > > Eric Chadbourne wrote: > > > >> Hi Ed, > >> > > > > How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I > heard > >> recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project > >> for that. > >> I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? > >> > > > > > > My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for > > home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the > > usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. > > TIA. > > > > Bill > > > > > > -- > > E. William Horne > > 339-364-8487 > > > > ___ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss@blu.org > > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > -- > ><> ... Jack > > "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23 > "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." - > Albert Einstein > "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." - Admiral > Grace Hopper, USN > "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - > Ben Franklin > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On 12 February 2015 at 14:46, Bill Horne wrote: > selling more Apple products, not making the FOSS movement stronger. No, that's what the general public does. Apple is anti-foss, not just neutral to FOSS when you tot up their track record. Martin, ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
On 2/12/2015 1:40 PM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) wrote: From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? Virtualbox is really good for a free product. But if you use it all day every day, as a professional, then there's no question about it, vmware fusion and parallels are better. More features, better reliability, better performance. Fusion and Parallels are each better in their own ways - ultimately it's a wash between the two. They're both fine. Being a techy person, I prefer the vmware style over the parallels style. I'm curious: please give your reasons for and against each vendor, and tell us what your experience was installing and debugging each. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On 2/12/2015 1:40 PM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) wrote: I can bitch and gripe all I want about Apple's policies and how their products are designed to benefit *them* with consumer lock-in, etc etc blah blah. Nobody's listening. Don't be so hard on yourself: there are people listening, but those whom are not probably already realized that Apple is in the business of selling more Apple products, not making the FOSS movement stronger. It's obvious to anyone who sees Apple's hardware that the company wants to prevent any cut-rate competitors' from undercutting their prices: proprietary connectors everywhere you look, even if the protocols are as common as SCSI (Thunderbolt) or VGA, and ever-more imaginative ways to put components inside boxes with new shapes that nobody else can produce. I once won $10 by proving to my coworker that an Apple computer had an IDE drive in it; and I made the bet because I knew that not even Apple could afford to pass up the benefits of commodity disk drives, no matter how much effort their designers put into hiding the drive in a special bracket secured with Torx screws to frighten the average user. They make money at it, and so they're not likely to change, which is a shame, because they're going to get stuck in the "what next" part of the curve. Having invented so many new ways of doing things, Apple will become the victim of its success: there are only so many ways to re-imagine the music industry or computers in general, and Jobs isn't around to pull more rabbits out of his hat. FWIW. Bill P.S. I'll move my reply to your VM advice into the VM thread. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
I've been using VirtualBox, but need to check out Xen because VirtualBox locks up hard due to a 3-yr old networking bug that isn't getting any attention. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10624 https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12264 Greg Rundlett http://eQuality-Tech.com http://freephile.org On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Jack Coats wrote: > Like Xen (xenproject.org)? > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne wrote: > > > I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. > > > > Eric Chadbourne wrote: > > > >> Hi Ed, > >> > > > > How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I > heard > >> recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project > >> for that. > >> I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? > >> > > > > > > My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for > > home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the > > usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. > > TIA. > > > > Bill > > > > > > -- > > E. William Horne > > 339-364-8487 > > > > ___ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss@blu.org > > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > -- > ><> ... Jack > > "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23 > "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." - > Albert Einstein > "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." - Admiral > Grace Hopper, USN > "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - > Ben Franklin > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
Like Xen (xenproject.org)? On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Bill Horne wrote: > I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. > > Eric Chadbourne wrote: > >> Hi Ed, >> > > How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard >> recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project >> for that. >> I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? >> > > > My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for > home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the > usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. > TIA. > > Bill > > > -- > E. William Horne > 339-364-8487 > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- ><> ... Jack "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23 "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." - Admiral Grace Hopper, USN "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Ben Franklin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On > Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne > > Hi Ed, > > I can understand your point on using OS X as the host OS but that is more of a > limitation of OS X and not the other operating systems. Agreed. But that's a philosophical point, which I've found, I never get any traction with. I can bitch and gripe all I want about Apple's policies and how their products are designed to benefit *them* with consumer lock-in, etc etc blah blah. Nobody's listening. > How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard > recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for > that. > I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? Virtualbox is really good for a free product. But if you use it all day every day, as a professional, then there's no question about it, vmware fusion and parallels are better. More features, better reliability, better performance. Fusion and Parallels are each better in their own ways - ultimately it's a wash between the two. They're both fine. Being a techy person, I prefer the vmware style over the parallels style. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
VirtualBox -Original Message- From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+joe=polcari@blu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Horne Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:37 PM To: BLU Discussion List Subject: [Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there? I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: > Hi Ed, > How do you like vmware? I've been using virtualbox for years but I heard > recently there's only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. > I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:58:19PM -0500, Eric Chadbourne wrote: > Are you the John Hall who brought Linus to the states back in the day? If > yes, you are fascinating and if we ever bump into each other I would love to > buy you a beer and listen to stories. > > You don’t have to hack around anymore to get netflix working on gnu/linux. > At least it worked for me a couple of months ago before I purchased this > lovely piece of limited desk jewelry. Or is he the John Hall who was my RA at Binghamton? For Netflix, I recommend the Roku appliances. Tiny, cheap, fast enough, and unlikely to ever require system administration time. -dsr- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Are you the John Hall who brought Linus to the states back in the day? If yes, you are fascinating and if we ever bump into each other I would love to buy you a beer and listen to stories. You don’t have to hack around anymore to get netflix working on gnu/linux. At least it worked for me a couple of months ago before I purchased this lovely piece of limited desk jewelry. — Eric Chadbourne > On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:47 PM, John Hall wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Dr. Anthony Gabrielson < > agabriels...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > I do think Docker would make a good replacement/supplement for package >> management - it is a completely self contained instance that just shares a >> kernel. > > Docker shares a kernel on linux distros. On Mac and windows it runs at > least one kernel in virtualbox. > I believe you'll be better served running your own virtual box configured > with a full desktop linux distro on top of MacOS and then use it's package > manager. > > In general my experience is that my Mac Mini is great for times when I need > to provide my parents techsupport and for using my outdated scanner that > has no linux or windows 8.1 drivers. > I also use it on another monitor to watch netflix which annoyingly still > does not work on linux with out hacks and takes needless cycles on linux. > My MacOS survival guide: > > 1. MacOS is an operating system for the General Public even more so than > Windows which bridges over business, and tech. > 2. Mac is good for some stuff and is worth keeping actively running with > a multi core processor, so keep it around, but > 3. *Install VB and a Linux distro and be happy, if you don't have > another machine handy next to it.* > 4. Do not try to get buy with any of the aggravating MacOS oss distros. > You will just be annoyed. Suplement the linux distro as you please. > 5. Use docker in the linux distro to manage services you want to keep > separate from each other. > 6. Consider using vagrant for managing development environments. > > I'm a computer enthusiast and really enjoy following MacOS, and Windows > along with Linux. > I don't mean to malign mac. Also for things like XCode keep in mind that > Mac is trying hard to drive demand and development for their latest > systems! > Check out the specs on the newest cores in Macbook pros. They dust my > little ol' mini. > > Cheers, > John Hall > Web Application Developer > http://openelevate.com/jlhall/resume.html > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Dr. Anthony Gabrielson < agabriels...@comcast.net> wrote: I do think Docker would make a good replacement/supplement for package > management - it is a completely self contained instance that just shares a > kernel. Docker shares a kernel on linux distros. On Mac and windows it runs at least one kernel in virtualbox. I believe you'll be better served running your own virtual box configured with a full desktop linux distro on top of MacOS and then use it's package manager. In general my experience is that my Mac Mini is great for times when I need to provide my parents techsupport and for using my outdated scanner that has no linux or windows 8.1 drivers. I also use it on another monitor to watch netflix which annoyingly still does not work on linux with out hacks and takes needless cycles on linux. My MacOS survival guide: 1. MacOS is an operating system for the General Public even more so than Windows which bridges over business, and tech. 2. Mac is good for some stuff and is worth keeping actively running with a multi core processor, so keep it around, but 3. *Install VB and a Linux distro and be happy, if you don't have another machine handy next to it.* 4. Do not try to get buy with any of the aggravating MacOS oss distros. You will just be annoyed. Suplement the linux distro as you please. 5. Use docker in the linux distro to manage services you want to keep separate from each other. 6. Consider using vagrant for managing development environments. I'm a computer enthusiast and really enjoy following MacOS, and Windows along with Linux. I don't mean to malign mac. Also for things like XCode keep in mind that Mac is trying hard to drive demand and development for their latest systems! Check out the specs on the newest cores in Macbook pros. They dust my little ol' mini. Cheers, John Hall Web Application Developer http://openelevate.com/jlhall/resume.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[Discuss] Are there any no-cost vm's still out there?
I'm starting a new thread instead of hijacking the os x = poop thread. Eric Chadbourne wrote: Hi Ed, How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? My question: does VMWare or Virtualbox still offer no-cost software for home/personal use? I'd like to run both Linux and Windows 7 (for all the usual reasons), but I don't know if I can do it without paying for a VM. TIA. Bill -- E. William Horne 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Hi Ed, I can understand your point on using OS X as the host OS but that is more of a limitation of OS X and not the other operating systems. How do you like vmware? I’ve been using virtualbox for years but I heard recently there’s only one dev really maintaining it. Too big a project for that. I wonder if it will be discontinued soon? Thanks, — Eric Chadbourne > On Feb 12, 2015, at 6:50 AM, Edward Ned Harvey (blu) > wrote: > >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On >> Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne >> >> Anybody here like OS X? Why? I’m not trolling. I’m curious. Why would >> somebody want to use this terrible piece of proprietary poop? > > I like OSX because Running OSX as the host OS is literally the only way that > you can use every OS. Because if you run some other OS as the host, you > can't run OSX as the guest. I like "best tool for the job." So I like to > use each OS for what it's best at. > > I don't use any of that crap software you mentioned. I run vmware fusion, so > at all times I have several mac desktops, and a windows desktop, and an > ubuntu desktop. > In the mac, I usually have open: chrome, skype, terminal, macvim, Xamarin > Studio, SourceTree, Finder. > In windows, I usually have open: outlook, Visual Studio, SourceTree, cygwin, > vmware vsphere, gimp, gvim. > In ubuntu, I usually have open: monoDevelop, terminal > > I like OSX best for desktop user interface, largely because that touchpad is > the best damn touchpad anybody has on any system - it's no wonder apple > patented the shit out of all the multitouch gestures stuff and they don't > license it to windows manufacturers. So the touchpad interface, on all the > other platforms, is crap by comparison, even with multitouch. > > And task switching between desktops - I know linux can *sort of* come close > to doing some of it, with all that Compiz stuff, but it's never been nearly > as good. And nothing in windows comes even close. > > Also backups in the mac. Time machine is the gold standard that windows & > linux wish they could achieve. Hardware compatibility: Just clone any HD > onto any new machine and you're good to go. With everything else you have > platform-specific drivers and hardware-locked license keys that make it > difficult to simply replace your computer and restore all your software > (whole disk image). > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On 2/12/2015 7:49 AM, Anthony Gabrielson wrote: With that said, I'm not sure if I follow you. I think you're saying that battery life isn't that good? The author of the article above is No, I'm saying that Flash is a pig. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On 2/11/2015 10:18 PM, Eric Chadbourne wrote: Can’t imagine using this OS as a server. Where’s RMS? Help, back me bro! Eric, We may be able to save you. S-L-O-W-L-Y reach in your pocket, grab your nail clippers, and cut the white cord that is tied around your wrist. There may be places where it has started to grow dendrites into you nerves. You'll just have to endure the pain! ... Bill ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Event Timestamps
Kent Borg writes: > store with the event (Python makes is to easy to put it in an > attribute), yet they don't capture something so basic. They do an > event queue, but don't tell me when the events happened. It is one > thing to not tell me about a double-click, but to not even give me the > data to decide for myself? Stupid! YAGNI gone wild? I think you've written that you don't like Perl, but have you considered using a language with an on average more experienced user base? What are your thoughts on Common Lisp? That seems to tend towards completeness from what I've seen from playing with it. -- Mike Small sma...@panix.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[Discuss] Event Timestamps
I'm getting old. Back in olden days the Machintosh did a graphical user interface. Many scoffed it wasn't for power users, but the Apple people did some solid work. Much of which is lost to the sands of time. Specifically, doing some playing with pygame (rather cool, I do admit) I am shocked to see that they don't capture the timestamp of the event. God, getting a timestamp is so cheap and it is so small to store with the event (Python makes is to easy to put it in an attribute), yet they don't capture something so basic. They do an event queue, but don't tell me when the events happened. It is one thing to not tell me about a double-click, but to not even give me the data to decide for myself? Stupid! No wonder I see cases where current user interfaces don't seem to even have captured the mouse coordinates with the event, and when things are busy the click is positioned where my mouse is when the software got around to noticing. -kb, the Kent who isn't going to dive into whether OS X is crumbling or not. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Also, I should add that back in the 2009-10 timeframe, besides the MSOffice issues. The other major issues I had were hardware related. I spent a good deal of time dealing with wifi or printer trying to figure out how to get them to work, or why they stopped working for unknown reasons. I'm sure it's gotten a lot better for Linux on the desktop, but I've never had the same issues with Mac. Matt On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Matt Shields wrote: > Going back as far as '95 I've been using Linux and ever since then I've > tried over and over to use Linux on the desktop. Each time I'd have > limited success, usually the main reason for going back to Windows on the > desktop is because of some corporate software needs (most often Office, > Outlook, Project, Visio). My closest time of using Linux on the desktop > was around 2009-10 when I used Evolution for mail/calendaring, and had a > second laptop using Synergy2 for Project/Visio. But Evolution still > sucked, a lot. So in 2010 I had the opportunity to get a Mac at work. And > as much as I had previously hated Apple because I thought they were over > priced, it was the perfect mid-ground between needing a *nix on my desktop > since I write a lot of bash & python and getting an X terminal when I need > one, plus being able to use the dreaded MSOffice products for places I > worked. my only wish was that I had switched earlier. So, I've come to > love OSX. But, I'll still always run Linux in the server environment. > > > Matt > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eric Chadbourne < > eric.chadbou...@icloud.com> wrote: > >> I’ve been using a mac mini for the last few months and I must say the >> hardware is nice but the software is pretty bad. Push notifications in >> Safari (yuck), iCloud hiccuped when I moved from gmail to protonmail, >> iCloud can’t backup by directory by default, the default email client is >> very slow, their Xcode IDE is merely adequate, their server products blow, >> you really can’t change the look significantly, by default it can’t read >> many other file system formats, case insensitive terminal, iTunes can’t >> read free codecs, etc. I am very unimpressed with the software. With so >> much cash behind them one would think they could write good code but no. >> It really sucks. My Ubuntu boxes are so much more stable and have more >> features. >> >> Anybody here like OS X? Why? I’m not trolling. I’m curious. Why would >> somebody want to use this terrible piece of proprietary poop? >> >> Eric C - the one who is googling how to install Ubuntu on a new mac mini. >> >> ___ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss@blu.org >> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Going back as far as '95 I've been using Linux and ever since then I've tried over and over to use Linux on the desktop. Each time I'd have limited success, usually the main reason for going back to Windows on the desktop is because of some corporate software needs (most often Office, Outlook, Project, Visio). My closest time of using Linux on the desktop was around 2009-10 when I used Evolution for mail/calendaring, and had a second laptop using Synergy2 for Project/Visio. But Evolution still sucked, a lot. So in 2010 I had the opportunity to get a Mac at work. And as much as I had previously hated Apple because I thought they were over priced, it was the perfect mid-ground between needing a *nix on my desktop since I write a lot of bash & python and getting an X terminal when I need one, plus being able to use the dreaded MSOffice products for places I worked. my only wish was that I had switched earlier. So, I've come to love OSX. But, I'll still always run Linux in the server environment. Matt On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eric Chadbourne wrote: > I’ve been using a mac mini for the last few months and I must say the > hardware is nice but the software is pretty bad. Push notifications in > Safari (yuck), iCloud hiccuped when I moved from gmail to protonmail, > iCloud can’t backup by directory by default, the default email client is > very slow, their Xcode IDE is merely adequate, their server products blow, > you really can’t change the look significantly, by default it can’t read > many other file system formats, case insensitive terminal, iTunes can’t > read free codecs, etc. I am very unimpressed with the software. With so > much cash behind them one would think they could write good code but no. > It really sucks. My Ubuntu boxes are so much more stable and have more > features. > > Anybody here like OS X? Why? I’m not trolling. I’m curious. Why would > somebody want to use this terrible piece of proprietary poop? > > Eric C - the one who is googling how to install Ubuntu on a new mac mini. > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@blu.org > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:18:44PM -0500, Eric Chadbourne wrote: > Nevertheless Apple is making incredible profits. Guess I’m wrong. > http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1193125-14-157311&cik=320193 Look for Net Sales by Product. Apple is a phone and tablet manufacturer with a sideline in computers. About 8:1. -dsr- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Our network has iMacs, Macbook Airs, Mac Minis, and Ubuntu systems. I like them all of them for different reasons. But in my experience, the Macs are not as reliable under load, and applications can more easily crash the OS (particularly MS Office). My wife regularly runs 20 Mac applications at once (with sufficient RAM). The number of times I have added some innocuous little operation, like opening Terminal, and watched the system go down are uncountable. The number of hung applications that haven't responded to the Finder's "Force Quit" command is also large. (Thank goodness for "kill -9.") There was a period of about 5 years where rsync refused to copy the entire Mac internal drive to an external drive. It would always die somewhere in the middle with an alleged external disk error. Tried it with 5+ different external drives. Nowadays I run ssh+rsync from a Linux box to back up the drive. So, Macs are friendly & useful but I don't rely on them for anything intensive. The only time our Linux boxes crash is during hardware failures, or maybe once a year when something goes nuts and spews out a zillion processes. Even then, they sometimes recover by themselves. Linux has other issues, but reliability under load is not one of them. :-) -- Dan Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
Hi Rich, The article I was referencing was for 13" Macbook Pro, not an Air (my mistake): http://loicpefferkorn.net/2015/01/arch-linux-on-macbook-pro-retina-2014-with-dm-crypt-lvm-and-suspend-to-disk/ With that said, I'm not sure if I follow you. I think you're saying that battery life isn't that good? The author of the article above is claiming 9.5 hours which seems inline with OS X. That seems great to me, actually reduced laptop battery life in Linux has always been a grip for me. On the Flash note - I'm not a fan. I don't have Flash installed on my OS X laptops and I use Chrome for the one or two instances I need it. Anthony - Original Message - From: "Richard Pieri" To: discuss@blu.org Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 10:49:50 PM Subject: Re: [Discuss] os x = poop? On 2/11/2015 10:27 PM, Dr. Anthony Gabrielson wrote: > a MB Air - the battery life is similar between OS X and Linux, which > is really impressive. Not really. About half of that is not shipping a Flash player with Safari. Apple measured an average 40% run time improvement while web browsing with Flash removed from first generation Airs. Don't install Flash for Firefox or Chrome and you'll see the same thing. The rest is Intel's work on the HD and Iris IGPs on the third and fourth generation Core i series CPUs. You don't need Apple-branded kit to get the same thing. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On > Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne > > It just bugs me that something simple like, I need an IRC client that doesn’t > suck Yeah, the best solution is a mac with windows & linux VM's running in it. Every platform has some stuff that it does better than the others, so use each platform for the stuff it does best. If you have a favorite IRC client that you like in ubuntu - run a ubuntu VM. > Can’t > imagine using this OS as a server. Oh, no. Don't. Just don't. *shudders* The only situation that I would even consider running OSX server is to be a time machine server. Which can be done with ubuntu server, so I don't see any reason to do it with osx server. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] os x = poop?
> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces+blu=nedharvey@blu.org] On > Behalf Of Eric Chadbourne > > Anybody here like OS X? Why? I’m not trolling. I’m curious. Why would > somebody want to use this terrible piece of proprietary poop? I like OSX because Running OSX as the host OS is literally the only way that you can use every OS. Because if you run some other OS as the host, you can't run OSX as the guest. I like "best tool for the job." So I like to use each OS for what it's best at. I don't use any of that crap software you mentioned. I run vmware fusion, so at all times I have several mac desktops, and a windows desktop, and an ubuntu desktop. In the mac, I usually have open: chrome, skype, terminal, macvim, Xamarin Studio, SourceTree, Finder. In windows, I usually have open: outlook, Visual Studio, SourceTree, cygwin, vmware vsphere, gimp, gvim. In ubuntu, I usually have open: monoDevelop, terminal I like OSX best for desktop user interface, largely because that touchpad is the best damn touchpad anybody has on any system - it's no wonder apple patented the shit out of all the multitouch gestures stuff and they don't license it to windows manufacturers. So the touchpad interface, on all the other platforms, is crap by comparison, even with multitouch. And task switching between desktops - I know linux can *sort of* come close to doing some of it, with all that Compiz stuff, but it's never been nearly as good. And nothing in windows comes even close. Also backups in the mac. Time machine is the gold standard that windows & linux wish they could achieve. Hardware compatibility: Just clone any HD onto any new machine and you're good to go. With everything else you have platform-specific drivers and hardware-locked license keys that make it difficult to simply replace your computer and restore all your software (whole disk image). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
