Re: [steering-discuss] FOSDEM DevRoom Call for Papers
Hi Florian, all, Florian Effenberger wrote (02-11-10 12:34) Anyone already working on that? Below the draft for the announcement and the link to the wiki. Do we want a deadline for the cfp? Do we want to tell about current uncertainty wrt refund of costs? Do we want to discuss at libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org ? = = = The draft for the announcement: Dear reader, 2011 Brussels, FOSDEM... Your first chance ever to give a talk for LibreOffice at this great open source event … obviously you don't want to miss this! So do you want to share for example your experience in starting hacking the code, or tell about the tweaks in your build environment, code changes you have done or those that you prepare, or your work on QA? Simply submit your proposal at our wiki: When there are too many proposals, we will have to choose, so please give a clear description of your talk, goal and target audience. We are going to try to arrange sponsoring for our speakers, but the possibilities are not sure at the moment. Thanks a lot, TDF Steering Committee More info: – http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Events/Fosdem2011 – mailing list libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org – mailing list market...@libreoffice.org = = = The wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Events/Fosdem2011 Best, Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] FOSDEM DevRoom Call for Papers
Hi there, On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 14:09 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: Below the draft for the announcement and the link to the wiki. Looks excellent. Do we want a deadline for the cfp ? Good question; normaly some flexibility is good here, along with prodding people into action. Do we want to tell about current uncertainty wrt refund of costs ? I would make the text more like: FOSDEM is a free conference to attend, and we will try to seek sponsorship, but funding is limited, so please only request it if you cannot attend otherwise how about that ? :-) Do we want to discuss at libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org ? Can do; lets whack it in the wiki first, and just not announce it - so people can go edit it in-place there. The draft for the announcement: And thanks for the great start ! :-) wonderful to get a nucleus to grow this around. 2011 Brussels, FOSDEM... Your first chance ever to give a talk for LibreOffice at this great open source event … obviously you don't want to miss this! Love it :-) So do you want to share for example your experience in starting hacking the code, or tell about the tweaks in your build environment, code changes you have done or those that you prepare, or your work on QA? Simply submit your proposal at our wiki: One thing I would like is to have a range of talk lengths. ie. I think we should have some 30 minute, and some 15 minute, slots - and perhaps some 5 minutes. There is great benefit in having people simply stand up, say hello, and sit down again ;-) so you get to know who they are - and they build confidence. When there are too many proposals, we will have to choose, so please give a clear description of your talk, goal and target audience. We are going to try to arrange sponsoring for our speakers, but the possibilities are not sure at the moment. I would ask for a couple of paragraphs about the talk - maximum 300 words - otherwise, some will write their life story, and others two lines :-) Anyhow - thanks muchly for the nice, punchy draft :-) and leading this. ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] poll on next confcall
Hi, Steering Committee, please cast your vote for the day and time of the next conference call at http://www.doodle.com/my2iwmepdrd3pvmk I am in Munich all week long, so I might not be able to attend and therefore ask my deputy, Christoph Noack, to attend on behalf of mine. I will, however, provide the phone conference room, of course. Thanks! Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Updates overwriting User settings
Hi there, On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 08:43 +0930, Michael Wheatland wrote: I think we all agree that this should happen automatically. Updating is pretty basic functionality in any software. (Even if apple gets it wrong) Right :-) it should 'just work' Maybe we can consider creating an update tool to incorporate into LibreOffice to upgrade from older OOo versions, much like Firefox or Chromium does when updating or upgrading. It is there; if LibreOffice doesn't start, and just bombs out when you launch it first time (sad but true) - that means it did a silent migration of your old data, and then exited without telling you. That would be a good thing to improve I suppose; I'll add it to the Easy Hacks list. Heh ;-) Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On Thu, 2010-11-11 at 23:03 +0100, Christoph Noack wrote: Mmh, I think you've been at the talk by Mechtilde and Charles, or ? Heh - of course; and listening. LibreOffice already has the selectable help/about version text so it can be cut/pasted. Perhaps we want a simple hash in addition to that - that combines vendor, version, platform, and so on - and that we demand - so we can detect wrong values that people enter for version / etc. - thus not tempting them to file an old bug vs. a newer version just to get attention ;-) would be easy to do. Version key (paste from help-about): @ Charles, do you still have the few notes we took during/after the talk? Mentally, I think I stored most of the issues for future work. HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Updates overwriting User settings
On 2010-11-11 6:13 PM, Michael Wheatland wrote: If you did that as a user-created dictionary, it should be in /user/3/wordbook, and as such, can be copied over when you install a new version of the program. I think we all agree that this should happen automatically. Updating is pretty basic functionality in any software. (Even if apple gets it wrong) Maybe we can consider creating an update tool to incorporate into LibreOffice to upgrade from older OOo versions, much like Firefox or Chromium does when updating or upgrading. Is this only a problem on Linux or Macs? I've never had my settings overwritten, and we've been using OOo in our office since about version 1.0... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On 2010-11-12 6:01 AM, Michael Meeks wrote: Perhaps we want a simple hash in addition to that - that combines vendor, version, platform, and so on - and that we demand - so we can detect wrong values that people enter for version / etc. - thus not tempting them to file an old bug vs. a newer version just to get attention ;-) would be easy to do. Version key (paste from help-about): I don't understand why this should have to be manually entered by the user. It is trivial to query most (all?) running systems about the system details (platform, memory, processor info, etc) - so why not simply make the crash reporter capable of querying the system it is installed on and providing all of that information automatically? Next would be to make the crash reporter deliver the crash report into the same initial/easy 'bug reporter' that is available to end users and triaged by more technically inclined volunteers. Last, would be to give the online bug tracker a 'button' that would also be capable of querying the Reporters system for details. Of course, there would have to an initial 'Is the computer you are currently using to report this problem the same computer on which you are experiencing the problem with LibO?', as well as ample warnings and disclaimers about what the tool will do before it actually does it... I'll wager there are already some free tools available for querying most if not all of the platforms that LibO runs on that could be leveraged. -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] When will the next beta version of Libreoffice release?
Le 12/11/2010 08:13, Sebastian Spaeth a écrit : On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:33:13 +0800, Jih-Yao Lin jih...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, when will the next beta version of Libreoffice release to resolve the integration between zotero plug-in. a) I use the zotero plugin with currentl LibO. Me too and it seems to work well. Perhaps Chris forgot to tell Zotero OpenOffice Integration Firefox plugin where to find LibreOffice executables. That done it seems you have to close and reopen preferences dialog of this plugin before to click the button Reinstall OpenOffice.org Components. And, if you are a Linux user, read carefully what Zotero said about Java VM : http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_installation Best regards JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On 2010-11-11 7:08 PM, jonathon wrote: - From my POV, the biggest failure is how OOo implemented it. It attempts to demand the naive OOo user state precisely where, when, what, and which components of OOo are affected by the bug/feature/whatever. It also attempts to extract all of the technical data about the bug/feature/whatever, from a user that neither knows, nor cares about what a stack overflow is. +10 [Disclaimer: I quit submitting bug reports and RFIs to issuezilla for both OOo and Firefox/Thunderbird years ago, because they were invariably closed with a won't fix or won't implement tag. The usual reason being that so few people are affected, that it would not be worth the developer cost to fix/implement. I] ? You seem to be lumping two totally different aspects of bug trackers together as one. Firefox and Thunderbirds bug tracker is not even remotely as difficult as OOo's. While I agree with you that the Mozilla devs tend to close Feature Requests with a WONTFIX (or they agree it would be a nice feature, but it just stays open with no one giving it any love) too often, they do address real bugs fairly quickly - and the reason they tend to neglect feature requests is because they - especially the Thunderbird devs - are very short-staffed. First, we need to get rid of the non-meaningful term issue and distinguish between bugs and requests for improvements. What one person views as a bug, a developer can view as an RFE. [Case in point: The bug reports I filed on Thunderbird, about its inability to retrieve email, were treated as RFEs, purely because they were not bugs, going by the then current email rerieval specifications for Thunderbird.] Bug#'s? Thunderbird has never had a problem 'retrieving' our mail in our office, and we've been using it (40-60 users over the years) since about version 0.8, so whatever your problem is/was, obviously it is/was something fairly obscure. What is needed is something that enables a user who has lots of data to include it, but not make a user that has little or no data, unwilling, or unable to submit a report. Again, +10... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Rainer Bielefeld rainerbielefeld_ooo...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote: I cant see any necessity for an additional bug tracking system for normal users. If he has a problem, the user can post it in an user mailing list or in the forum, there he can get help. Hi, casual users don't do that. They only need to get their work done. Forums have the tendency to cost a lot of time, whereas many of non-power users do not understand mailing lists completely. If we want to get them involved in bug reporting, everything should be as easy as nextnextnext, plus the already mentioned things making users feel they're part of the community (like 'your bug was resolved', etc. notifications). Otherwise users wouldn't care, or, even worse, dump LibO. Povilas -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Added a couple videos to the LibreOfficeVols youtube channel
Hi, Just wanted to let people know: A couple more videos where added to the youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/libreofficeVols Also added a link to a video, that I did not include in the channel to the micro-blog group: http://libreofficevols.status.net/group/vids I'm trying to search every other day for new videos, but if you see one drop a line here, or me an email, or use the micro-blog to get the word out and I'll move it onto a list at the YouTube channel. Thanks Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On Nov 12, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Povilas Kanapickas wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Rainer Bielefeld rainerbielefeld_ooo...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote: I cant see any necessity for an additional bug tracking system for normal users. If he has a problem, the user can post it in an user mailing list or in the forum, there he can get help. Hi, casual users don't do that. They only need to get their work done. Forums have the tendency to cost a lot of time, whereas many of non-power users do not understand mailing lists completely. If we want to get them involved in bug reporting, everything should be as easy as nextnextnext, plus the already mentioned things making users feel they're part of the community (like 'your bug was resolved', etc. notifications). Otherwise users wouldn't care, or, even worse, dump LibO. I agree that the need for simplicity is fundamental. What users could do if they were highly motivated is different from what they will do in real-world circumstances. Our community benefits most from this feedback, so we need to expend the effort to collect it. Firefox's current beta version (4.0b7) displays a prominent Feedback button on the toolbar, directly to the right of its Google search box. Clicking it opens a menu with Firefox made me happy because... and Firefox made be sad because... (It also includes links to see or turn off the User Studies feature.) I'd suggest we examine and emulate Firefox's UX model here, if possible. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Updates overwriting User settings
jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/11/2010 09:15 PM, Robert Derman wrote: I have had to enter well over 1000 compound words into the dictionary, If you did that as a user-created dictionary, it should be in /user/3/wordbook, and as such, can be copied over when you install a new version of the program. jonathon These words were entered into the spell check pop up menu. If that creates a user created dictionary, then yes. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Updates overwriting User settings
On 11/12/2010 12:46 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2010/11/12 6:14 AM Charles Marcus wrote: Is this only a problem on Linux or Macs? I've never had my settings overwritten, and we've been using OOo in our office since about version 1.0... OOo has never overwrittin the user settings on my Mac in the three and a half years I've been using a Mac. I have never had this happen either...but maybe he is talking about when LibreOffice is installed. What happens here (at least on my Linux machine) is that a new user directory is created...and the installation picks up SOME but not ALL of the settings from the old OpenOffice user directorywhich is no big deal...I had to just reset some things like my default font and a few other things. -- As the trials of life continue to take their toll, remember that there is always a future in Computer Maintenance. -- National Lampoon, Deteriorata -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[steering-discuss] Re: [steering-discuss] Community bylaws
Hi Charles, * thanks for this profound and important work! Hello all, please read the first real draft of the Community Bylaws here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws done :-) Feel free to comment on our beloved discuss list. Do you mean this steering discuss list? Or the general disc...@documentfoundation list? Sorry if I chose the wrong one... There are just two short comments I want to post: 1st: *Number of ESC members* In Governance (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws#Governance) it reads: Engineering Steering Committee : ... It is composed of 5 members. Two headings below (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws#Engineering_Steering_Committee) it reads: The Engineering Steering Committee (ESC) is made of developers who are coopted (i.e, there's no need for election and there can be as many members of the ESC as needed). So what is the number of ESC members? 5 or as many as needed? 2nd: *Financial board* The bylaws refer to a financial board in the Definitions (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws#Definitions) under Foundation: The * Document Foundation may have trustees (... all members of the *Financial*, ... and Directors' boards), as well as in the ESC paragraph (at least I understand FB as such): Duties of the ESC is to provide expertise and information to the BoD, the AB, *the FB*, the Chairman, the Executive Director and any other officer of the Foundation I don't think we should establish such a board right from the beginning, the Financial Officier should be enough - if it will be necessary it can be added later on. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 15:36 +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: LibreOffice already has the selectable help/about version text so it can be cut/pasted. Yeeey!! :-) Version key (paste from help-about): That's what I allways dreamed from in OOo!! Nice - so - I guess we can do still better. It would be -really- nice if we could cut/paste a block of text (perhaps a non-human-readable chunk) that we could parse in javascript to auto-fill-out many of the fields accurately: platform / exact version / enabled extensions / java version / etc. etc. I'll add this as an easy hack. As/when we have a defined URL, we could add a 'file a bug' link that could even auto-populate that. Lots of fun is possible. First we need some draft of the form / flow / wizard[in a single page] to fill in to file the bug I think. Good news. LibO will make the race!! :o)) If we can get people excited and contributing, make QA a fun job instead of a duplicate triaging nightmare etc. we'll do well :-) thanks for your support. ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
- Original Message From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 15:36 +0100, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: LibreOffice already has the selectable help/about version text so it can be cut/pasted. Yeeey!! :-) Hardly. Now you've got two things that can go wrong for a bug report. Sure it's less the user has to remember, but now you're relying the user being able to reliably copy/paste for the bug report too - information that may not be easily accessible - e.g. if they can't run the software due to it crashing, perhaps without generating the crash report manager. Version key (paste from help-about): That's what I allways dreamed from in OOo!! Nice - so - I guess we can do still better. It would be -really- nice if we could cut/paste a block of text (perhaps a non-human-readable chunk) that we could parse in javascript to auto-fill-out many of the fields accurately: platform / exact version / enabled extensions / java version / etc. etc. I'll add this as an easy hack. As/when we have a defined URL, we could add a 'file a bug' link that could even auto-populate that. Lots of fun is possible. First we need some draft of the form / flow / wizard[in a single page] to fill in to file the bug I think. Why bother? If you can do that, then you can just as easily have it load the web page in a browser for the user to simply review and sign off on, or even just have another dialog come up that directly submits the information to the system without having to go through a web browser - which would be even better to do so as to cover users that don't necessarily have Internet access since you could then create a zip file and give them instructions on what to do when they _do_ have Internet access (or provide a means to send it at a later time). Seriously, Thunderbird has a means to capture a crash report and save it for later submittal. They recognize that not all users are able to access the Internet or their mail system at all times. LibO needs to account for that too. And no, copy/paste is not a step in the right direction here. Ben -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
OOoCon 2010 Talk (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla)
Hi Charles! Am Freitag, den 12.11.2010, 07:43 -0500 schrieb Charles Marcus: On 2010-11-12 6:01 AM, Michael Meeks wrote: Perhaps we want a simple hash in addition to that - that combines vendor, version, platform, and so on - and that we demand - so we can detect wrong values that people enter for version / etc. - thus not tempting them to file an old bug vs. a newer version just to get attention ;-) would be easy to do. Version key (paste from help-about): I don't understand why this should have to be manually entered by the user. Good question, short answer: There is no reason. At least no real technical reason ... At the OOoCon 2010 (and before), we already talked how to improve the issue gathering and tracking from the user's and the supporter's point-of-view. The current idea is a small first step to some agreement between the different contributors ... because - from what I understand - it is more the differences how the projects handle these issues, than a technical problem. The discussion at the OOoCon 2010 made clear to me, that - if people go for such a (let's call it) automated issue gathering system, to say yes, software does contain bugs. And it requires some agreement across different projects / Linux distributions how to harmonize such a system, so that every contributor can have some benefit. And here, the experience of the projects and the current workflows seem to differ to such an extend, that the given manual system provides reasonable flexibility. Another experience people talked about was, that fixing the known bugs is already a lot of effort. But, I still consider this costly for the users and the people doing the support on the mailing lists. However, we collected some ideas within the presentation / workshop ... so if you like dynamic camera movements and emotional debates, then please have a look at the conference video [1]. As strange as it sounds, I'm happy for each of the tiny improvements ... and after a long time, we start to address these improvements. Okay, the remaining comments might better be located on another mailing list :-) Cheers, Christoph [1] Video (approx. 700 MB!) http://users2.ooodev.org/~ooocon2010/01_september/FT_409/18.15_charles_schulz_mechtilde_stehmann.flv -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
