Re: [tdf-discuss] QA - Bug Confirming: Volunteers required
Steve Edmonds schrieb: This is may be where I am confused or misunderstanding. The above search returns 17 bugs UNCO, but there are many bugs marked NEW, such as from random *3963* https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3963. This is NEW and there is no indication it is CONFIRMED, therefore I assume it is UNCONFIRMED but it is not in the search. Hi, so it is. Those wrong NEW bug reports are a problem. We need label accepted by common sense that indicates that the problem has been reproduced by a second user. Regards Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] QA - Bug Confirming: Volunteers required
Pieter E. Zanstra schrieb: So apparantly there is something seriously wrong in the process control. Hi, yes! I believe it would help a lot to have UNCONFIRMED as default submission status, but unfortunately it seems that that will not be possible with the current Bugzilla version. I think it would be useful to collect some enhancement requests for our Bugzilla (for example a differentiated permission management), but - to be honest - I'm not in the mood for doing that. CU Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] QA - Bug Confirming: Volunteers required
Christian Lohmaier wrote: Or maybe people did join, waited a little and then left again without writing a word, because the channel itself was silent. This was more or less my case. I connected in the afternoon European time, I saw no activity at all for one hour, I realized that 12PM (i.e., noon) in http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/IRCSessions#Bug_Triage_Training_Session really meant that the sessions was to be held in the morning only (European time) and I left since I didn't feel like writing in a chatroom full of people but no signal of activity. Actually, my main interest was not in unconfirmed bugs, but in deduplication of LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org issues, since I feel that cross-linking the common issues would save time both for QA volunteers and developers. How to deal with this problem has been asked several times (on this list too) but with no answer: it would be great to have a policy on this (i.e., how to deal with LibreOffice bugs that exist, or are being addressed, or have been fixed, in the OpenOffice.org code, taking into account that LibreOffice still imports the OpenOffice.org code on a regular basis). Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: We can discuss up to the end of the time if forums are better or worse than mailing lists. We can discuss about why people do not use better communication methods (whichever those methods are) or do not RTFM. We can discuss everything, but there is a clear fact that cannot be denied: English community forums have near 40500 registered users Spanish community forums have near 5000 registered users French community forums have near 17100 registered users Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Those users above will not all register to an additional forum - why should they? Why should we split the knowledge of those on purpose? And the one on services.openoffice.org is not the only one either. There are already enough forum solutions. If you want a dedicated LibreOffice one, ask the maintainers of that forum to open a LibreOffice category or something (but I don't think this is necessary, as functionality is not that much different yet) ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:06 AM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com: Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. By telling people use existing resources YOU are splitting the community: the official community that talks through the the official mailing lists and the other community that use external channels. -- What does official cooperation mean? How does a website gain official recognition? Who monitors to see if it's a forum or a knockoff? Why not just say on the official LibreOffice websites that forums can be found by searching for LibreOffice forum? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 17/04/2011 16:06, RGB ES wrote: 2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaierlohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com: Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. By telling people use existing resources YOU are splitting the community: the official community that talks through the the official mailing lists and the other community that use external channels. I don't understand your purpose. We are cooperating with the forum, at least the French community is cooperating with the French forum. Exchange are reported through the LibO mailing list when a bug is found, links from the forum are posted to the LibO users mailing list when a solution is proposed, call for QA is made on the forum when the LibO project needs it. What prevent the Spanish community to interact with the forum? I also don't understand what the term OFFICIAL COOPERATION means, this is one community using LibreOffice or OpenOffice.org, what do you need for official to be underlined here? Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
See, I learned about this forum (it isn't really a forum, it's something concocted out of mailing lists to sort of resemble a real forum) by accident one month ago, from a http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/17/flattr-us/ blog comment by Florian Effenberger . My suggestion to advertise the existence of this Nabble widely has gone unheeded. Honi soit qui mal y pense. A week ago I http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/I-am-downloading-LibreOffice-to-try-it-out-td2790818i20.html#a2802923 suggested that talks be opened about collaboration with the http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ premier volunteer OpenOffice forum . There was only one unfavorable response, otherwise silence. So, how are the hundreds of thousands of LibreOffice users going to get assistance for their urgent questions? Please don't tell me mailing lists, that's a laugh. The numbers tell the story: 2629 topics in Dev, 802 topics in Users. I have been posting comments here for a month, engaging in some discussions, because I want to learn about open source in general, open-source office software, efforts to combat anti-competitive practices, and who the people deeply involved are and how they act. My impressions are decidedly mixed. It doesn't appear to be about the users first and foremost. The few users who manage to find their way here aren't always served well. I've seen answers that are out in left field, i.e., unconnected to the question, or no answers at all. http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Writer-Problem-with-modern-typefaces-having-more-than-the-standard-styles-td2794737.html This person is still waiting for an answer to a question asked nearly two weeks ago, already containing a detailed description of the problem and links to bug reports etc. I keep hearing freedom, but is it about the freedom of users from being locked into a proprietary file format... or the freedom of unattached software developers to get their patches committed? Do people here really believe that a community of unpaid enthusiasts can take the place of a major corporation, or several, putting dozens of experienced professional developers to work Monday thru Friday, month after month? If so, it's a pipe dream! Coming back to the call for a forum, why not let the users decide how they would prefer to ask for assistance? Put up a banner on all your websites advertising a poll and give the options: (1) Create new forum from scratch (2) Join forces with http://www.oooforum.org/ (3) Join forces with http://user.services.openoffice.org/ (4) Mailing lists (5) ... (6) ... (7) ... (8) ... Let the poll run for a month and then implement the top one or two vote-getters. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Forums-again-tp2830659p2831151.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hello Aqualung, 2011/4/17 aqualung xfekdcugj...@mailinator.com See, I learned about this forum (it isn't really a forum, it's something concocted out of mailing lists to sort of resemble a real forum) by accident one month ago, from a http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/17/flattr-us/ blog comment by Florian Effenberger . My suggestion to advertise the existence of this Nabble widely has gone unheeded. Honi soit qui mal y pense. A week ago I http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/I-am-downloading-LibreOffice-to-try-it-out-td2790818i20.html#a2802923 suggested that talks be opened about collaboration with the http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ premier volunteer OpenOffice forum . There was only one unfavorable response, otherwise silence. So, how are the hundreds of thousands of LibreOffice users going to get assistance for their urgent questions? Please don't tell me mailing lists, that's a laugh. The numbers tell the story: 2629 topics in Dev, 802 topics in Users. But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. I have been posting comments here for a month, engaging in some discussions, because I want to learn about open source in general, open-source office software, efforts to combat anti-competitive practices, and who the people deeply involved are and how they act. My impressions are decidedly mixed. It doesn't appear to be about the users first and foremost. The few users who manage to find their way here aren't always served well. I've seen answers that are out in left field, i.e., unconnected to the question, or no answers at all. http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Writer-Problem-with-modern-typefaces-having-more-than-the-standard-styles-td2794737.html This person is still waiting for an answer to a question asked nearly two weeks ago, already containing a detailed description of the problem and links to bug reports etc. I keep hearing freedom, but is it about the freedom of users from being locked into a proprietary file format... or the freedom of unattached software developers to get their patches committed? Do people here really believe that a community of unpaid enthusiasts can take the place of a major corporation, or several, putting dozens of experienced professional developers to work Monday thru Friday, month after month? If so, it's a pipe dream! I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. It's not a pipe dream, it's not about whether people are paid and unpaid, and it's not about serving users as if they were customers either. It's more complex than that (see my take on it: http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/03/17/what-does-community-mean-part-2/) and it's not a pipe dream, because Free and Open Source Software is now an important part of IT, whether backed by corporations or not. Best, Charles. Coming back to the call for a forum, why not let the users decide how they would prefer to ask for assistance? Put up a banner on all your websites advertising a poll and give the options: (1) Create new forum from scratch (2) Join forces with http://www.oooforum.org/ (3) Join forces with http://user.services.openoffice.org/ (4) Mailing lists (5) ... (6) ... (7) ... (8) ... Let the poll run for a month and then implement the top one or two vote-getters. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Forums-again-tp2830659p2831151.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] North American Community Inaugural Meeting
Hi folks, I would like to ask the members of the LibreOffice community residing in North America for a few minutes of your time. First - to please take ~six minutes of your time in order to watch the video found here: http://www.facebook.com/v/1840388402746 and to consider the proposals made in it. The Doodle poll mentioned in the video can be found here: http://doodle.com/76xtkw3m42793zqq A wiki page has been started (rather lame at the moment but will be fleshed out over the next few days) here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/North-American-Community Coordination efforts are primarily happening on the US Marketing mailing list. http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/US-Marketing-f1717244.html Thanks, in advance, for you time and consideration, Drew Jensen -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] North American Community Inaugural Meeting
Hello Drew, Le Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:08:09 -0400, drew d...@baseanswers.com a écrit : Hi folks, I would like to ask the members of the LibreOffice community residing in North America for a few minutes of your time. First - to please take ~six minutes of your time in order to watch the video found here: http://www.facebook.com/v/1840388402746 and to consider the proposals made in it. The Doodle poll mentioned in the video can be found here: http://doodle.com/76xtkw3m42793zqq A wiki page has been started (rather lame at the moment but will be fleshed out over the next few days) here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/North-American-Community Coordination efforts are primarily happening on the US Marketing mailing list. http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/US-Marketing-f1717244.html Thanks, in advance, for you time and consideration, Way to go! Thank you for setting this up. Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Charles-H. Schulz wrote: But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. Why aren't the users of LibreOffice being told about them? www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ is the Help page. Let's see what it says: For user support, we have: * Mailing lists: the user support mailing list address is our main channel for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem [...]index. * IRC channels: come chat with us live on IRC at freenode.net [...] * FAQs: we are compiling a list of frequently-asked questions. [...] * Documentation: Check our documentation download page [...] * System requirements: Read the system requirements [...] * Installation instructions: [...] * Accessibility information: Read these accessibility tips [...] That's it! The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. It's not anywhere on the page! Why haven't you approached that forum's management to discuss integration with LibreOffice (including branding and design)? What is this if not a sign of extreme disregard for the wants and needs of ordinary people using the software, most of whom are uncomfortable with, or resistant to, using IRC or mailing lists? I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. It's not a pipe dream, it's not about whether people are paid and unpaid, and it's not about serving users as if they were customers either. It's more complex than that (see my take on it: http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/03/17/what-does-community-mean-part-2/) and it's not a pipe dream, because Free and Open Source Software is now an important part of IT, whether backed by corporations or not. Charles, I read that weeks ago and was less than impressed then. Your text has the starry-eyed quality of utopian socialism. I glanced at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ to get an idea of the people on the board of TDF. There seems to be a huge excess of producers and a dearth of consumers. Surely there are many organizations with 100+ seats of OpenOffice/LibreOffice, but I don't see any representatives from one of them on the board. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Forums-again-tp2830659p2831593.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2011 11:26:23 -0700 (PDT), aqualung xfekdcugj...@mailinator.com a écrit : Charles-H. Schulz wrote: But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. Why aren't the users of LibreOffice being told about them? www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ is the Help page. Let's see what it says: For user support, we have: * Mailing lists: the user support mailing list address is our main channel for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem [...]index. * IRC channels: come chat with us live on IRC at freenode.net [...] * FAQs: we are compiling a list of frequently-asked questions. [...] * Documentation: Check our documentation download page [...] * System requirements: Read the system requirements [...] * Installation instructions: [...] * Accessibility information: Read these accessibility tips [...] That's it! The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. It's not anywhere on the page! Why haven't you approached that forum's management to discuss integration with LibreOffice (including branding and design)? What is this if not a sign of extreme disregard for the wants and needs of ordinary people using the software, most of whom are uncomfortable with, or resistant to, using IRC or mailing lists? I really don't think it's an extreme disregard for users or forums. Why do you even think we would want to disregard them? Please don't talk to me as if I'm selling you something. TDF is not your ice cream vendor, and we're not a supermarket either. Also you're voicing one opinion, not an everlasting truth. We are going to deal with these issues as soon as we can, so please be patient. We've only existed for 6 months and I can assure you that we had a gazillion other things to do, some much more important, some other less important than your issue. But we'll deal with it in time. I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. It's not a pipe dream, it's not about whether people are paid and unpaid, and it's not about serving users as if they were customers either. It's more complex than that (see my take on it: http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/03/17/what-does-community-mean-part-2/) and it's not a pipe dream, because Free and Open Source Software is now an important part of IT, whether backed by corporations or not. Charles, I read that weeks ago and was less than impressed then. Your text has the starry-eyed quality of utopian socialism. Socialism? IBM, Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Google, Oracle, etc. are hardly socialists. But then you may want to read more on www.opensource.org , www.opensource.com and www.fsf.org I glanced at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ to get an idea of the people on the board of TDF. There seems to be a huge excess of producers and a dearth of consumers. Surely there are many organizations with 100+ seats of OpenOffice/LibreOffice, but I don't see any representatives from one of them on the board. We would love to have users contributing to TDF, and I'm sure you already read our bylaws. The point is what you contribute as it makes the project go round and grow. Best, Charles. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Forums-again-tp2830659p2831593.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] North American Community Inaugural Meeting
Way to go! Thank you for setting this up. Thanks Charles, but this chick is far from hatched still. //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: Charles-H. Schulz wrote: But there are existing LibreOffice and OpenOffice forums. I still don't get the point. Why aren't the users of LibreOffice being told about them? Whom do You accuse here? www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ is the Help page. Let's see what it says: For user support, we have: * Mailing lists: the user support mailing list address is our main channel for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem [...]index. * IRC channels: come chat with us live on IRC at freenode.net [...] * FAQs: we are compiling a list of frequently-asked questions. [...] * Documentation: Check our documentation download page [...] * System requirements: Read the system requirements [...] * Installation instructions: [...] * Accessibility information: Read these accessibility tips [...] That's it! The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. It's not anywhere on the page! What did You *act* to get it there? Why haven't you approached that forum's management to discuss integration with LibreOffice (including branding and design)? Whom do You ask? This question is one You should ask yourself: Why haven't *You* approached to do so? What is this if not a sign of extreme disregard for the wants and needs of ordinary people using the software, most of whom are uncomfortable with, or resistant to, using IRC or mailing lists? indeed! *You* did notice that issue and what was *Your* action? Again: whom do You accuse? Who should act, if not You? I'm afraid that's what Free and Open Source Software is exactly about. An Open Source Software community is a place to *act* rather than complain. [..] Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Aqualung already listed the content of the get-help page and the lack of any reference to existing forums and that is my main point too (don't worry, I'll not talk about socialism nor capitalism... ;) ). I'll not quote anyone in particular here, so let's see if I can make the whole idea more clear by itself. For whatever reason normal people do not use mailing lists nor irc channels. This people who arrives to that get-help page searching for help with their problems will not find solutions on an easy way. And people who cannot find a solution on an easy way will not use a product. Is everything about trust: people will trust a product not because they can use it for free (people usually do not consider idealogical issues like file formats nor open code when choosing their solutions), usually they only look if that software can solve their *immediate* problem on an easy way. And that of course include how they get help when they have a problem. If on that get-help page you say even if there is no warranty you'll get an answer there, we trust the people who maintain that board so use it with confidence and good luck you will help a lot more people. That, together with dialogue, is a possible official collaboration. Communication with people is the main issue here. Maybe my first message had a very low level of patience, my fault, sorry. But that was because I consider that having a clear position on this topic is of a great importance. Cheers Ricardo -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: snip What did You *act* to get it there? etc. Friedrich, see my earlier postings (with references / links to earlier commentary). Anyway, I'm glad that people are responding. I guess it proves the adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease Tell you what, give me the keys to that page and I'll fix it for ya. Alternatively, I'll see if I can grab the HTML for editing and then I'll whip up a proposal for you guys to vote on. Deal? -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Forums-again-tp2830659p2831902.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On 17/04/2011 22:33, RGB ES wrote: Aqualung already listed the content of the get-help page and the lack of any reference to existing forums and that is my main point too (don't worry, I'll not talk about socialism nor capitalism... ;) ). I'll not quote anyone in particular here, so let's see if I can make the whole idea more clear by itself. Did you referenced it in the es website? For whatever reason normal people do not use mailing lists nor irc channels. I've not the money to use a forum, strange isn't it, I may not be normal? This people who arrives to that get-help page searching for help with their problems will not find solutions on an easy way. And people who cannot find a solution on an easy way will not use a product. oh, and why didn't they go to the forum, too complicated? Is everything about trust: people will trust a product not because they can use it for free (people usually do not consider idealogical issues like file formats nor open code when choosing their solutions), usually they only look if that software can solve their *immediate* problem on an easy way. And that of course include how they get help when they have a problem. ah, in the country I leave, using a product without pirating it make you in the safe way of expressing yourself, just a point of view however. And by the way, even in France, where the liberty of expression is respected (in some way) free software in ministry is also a political choice, so sorry if I don't caution your reasoning, it's a bit leak for me for justifying a dedicated forum, in fact, I don't see where you're going. If on that get-help page you say even if there is no warranty you'll get an answer there, we trust the people who maintain that board so use it with confidence and good luck you will help a lot more people. Ha, with confidence and good luck? That, together with dialogue, is a possible official collaboration. Communication with people is the main issue here. Maybe my first message had a very low level of patience, my fault, sorry. But that was because I consider that having a clear position on this topic is of a great importance. the clear position is as usual and what Christian answered you, why do you want to divide resources where they have proven to be effective? you are missing collaboration? so work to be collaborative with the forum, don't reproach the entire project of something you didn't achieve. Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and a StackExchange support website
On 04/17/2011 10:21 AM, Simos Xenitellis wrote: Hi All, The new hotness for a support website would be to have a StackExchange website for LibreOffice. For example, * http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/ - aiming at developers, advanced users * http://askubuntu.com/ - aiming at users, also advanced users Here is a list of all StackExchange support websites, all 48 of them, http://stackexchange.com/sites What is StackExchange? Read at http://stackexchange.com/about In a nutshell, these are type of support websites that highlight the questions, and provide many opportunities to get these questions answered, with quality answers. The users accumulate points for their participation, which they then can use up to bring attention to their own questions that they may have. In addition, as users accumulate points, they get more responsibilities in self-moderating the website. The most well-known of those websites is StackOverflow, http://stackoverflow.com/ with about a million members, and more than a million questions answered. I am not affiliated with StackExchange, just posting this to see whether there is interest. Simos I posted about doing this on shapado.com a few months ago, take a look: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ The mailing list archives will also tell you more. I think it would be unfortunate to use a non-free SaaS to do this, specially when Shapado can do more. I haven't been able to put much more time on this lately, but surely making it an official resource would help it gain traction. Cheers, Fabian -- LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ ~ Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
2011/4/17 sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com: On 17/04/2011 22:33, RGB ES wrote: Aqualung already listed the content of the get-help page and the lack of any reference to existing forums and that is my main point too (don't worry, I'll not talk about socialism nor capitalism... ;) ). I'll not quote anyone in particular here, so let's see if I can make the whole idea more clear by itself. Did you referenced it in the es website? I thought there was a recent problem because the ES site was different from the main site, so no, I did not referenced it there and never will do if there is no previous agreement. I'll not answer the rest of your mail. Have a nice day -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and a StackExchange support website
2011/4/18 Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org: On 04/17/2011 10:21 AM, Simos Xenitellis wrote: Hi All, The new hotness for a support website would be to have a StackExchange website for LibreOffice. For example, * http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/ - aiming at developers, advanced users * http://askubuntu.com/ - aiming at users, also advanced users Here is a list of all StackExchange support websites, all 48 of them, http://stackexchange.com/sites What is StackExchange? Read at http://stackexchange.com/about In a nutshell, these are type of support websites that highlight the questions, and provide many opportunities to get these questions answered, with quality answers. The users accumulate points for their participation, which they then can use up to bring attention to their own questions that they may have. In addition, as users accumulate points, they get more responsibilities in self-moderating the website. The most well-known of those websites is StackOverflow, http://stackoverflow.com/ with about a million members, and more than a million questions answered. I am not affiliated with StackExchange, just posting this to see whether there is interest. Simos I posted about doing this on shapado.com a few months ago, take a look: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ The mailing list archives will also tell you more. I think it would be unfortunate to use a non-free SaaS to do this, specially when Shapado can do more. I haven't been able to put much more time on this lately, but surely making it an official resource would help it gain traction. Thanks for the link. I had no idea about shapado.com (or http://gitorious.org/shapado ) There has been a similar discussion for AskUbuntu and UbuntuAsk, http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/302/why-should-i-use-this-site-instead-of-ubuntu-ask-shapado with insightful comments. To be able to get Libreoffice.Shapado (or one at StackExchange) become popular, you need to make a group that will devote time to answer questions for the first few weeks. And at the same time promote as much as possible. The positive issue with StackExchange is that you get the spillover from the other StackExchange websites. In any case, it's a hard task to motivate people to spend their time. Thanks, Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hi aqualung, *, aqualung schrieb: [..] Anyway, I'm glad that people are responding. I guess it proves the adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease Tell you what, give me the keys to that page and I'll fix it for ya. Do You have an account on the CMS? If not, someone might have the link at hand for registering. Alternatively, I'll see if I can grab the HTML for editing and then I'll whip up a proposal for you guys to vote on. Deal? I'd assume there is no problem to get an author's account. Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/ LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hello aqualung, Am 2011-04-17 09:07:45, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: I keep hearing freedom, but is it about the freedom of users from being locked into a proprietary file format... or the freedom of unattached software developers to get their patches committed? Do people here really believe that a community of unpaid enthusiasts can take the place of a major corporation, or several, putting dozens of experienced professional developers to work Monday thru Friday, month after month? If so, it's a pipe dream! What about paying for support? Coming back to the call for a forum, why not let the users decide how they would prefer to ask for assistance? ??? User can ALREADY choose the Mailinglist or the Forum! Maybe yo should go and hire some PROs which do there Job in the Forum? Note: I hate Web-Forums and I hate social networks, because they ARE associal! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack -- # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ## Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux itsystems@tdnet France EURL itsystems@tdnet UG (limited liability) Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 (homeoffice) 50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17 67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.flexray4linux.org/ http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Jabber linux4miche...@jabber.ccc.de ICQ#328449886 Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: Forums... again
Hello RGB ES, Am 2011-04-17 21:33:47, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: For whatever reason normal people do not use mailing lists nor irc channels. Hmmm, do you mean I am not normal? - This is discrimination! This people who arrives to that get-help page searching for help with their problems will not find solutions on an easy way. And people who cannot find a solution on an easy way will not use a product. I do not use thos crapy forums, because I have to search to long for it. It is NON reliabel and slow. Do not belive I want to give a searchengine any infos about me, because I need help with a stupid program. Mailinglists are the fastest way to get help, because the Real Helpers use all mail to communicate faster and easier! Only some non-well-educated noobs use searchengine+forum! NNTP and MAIL exist since 30 years with success! Is everything about trust: people will trust a product not because they can use it for free (people usually do not consider idealogical issues like file formats nor open code when choosing their solutions), usually they only look if that software can solve their *immediate* problem on an easy way. And that of course include how they get help when they have a problem. Mailinglist are the way to go! I am volunter on some mailinglistst and I definitively would not do it, if I have to use forums on my TabletPC. get an answer there, we trust the people who maintain that board so use it with confidence and good luck you will help a lot more people. You can pay peoples to maintain this board and of course the costs for maintenance of such server which is much higher then a mailinglist. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack -- # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ## Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux itsystems@tdnet France EURL itsystems@tdnet UG (limited liability) Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 (homeoffice) 50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17 67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.flexray4linux.org/ http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Jabber linux4miche...@jabber.ccc.de ICQ#328449886 Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Hello aqualung, Am 2011-04-17 11:26:23, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: The http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be at or near the top. WHY? I think the first one should be the ORIGINAL mailinglist, because it is more ipmortant. Also WHY OpenOffice and not LibreOffice? Of you want an OpenOffice Forum, you should ask Oracle for it! :-D Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack -- # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ## Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux itsystems@tdnet France EURL itsystems@tdnet UG (limited liability) Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 (homeoffice) 50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17 67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.flexray4linux.org/ http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Jabber linux4miche...@jabber.ccc.de ICQ#328449886 Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
