Fwd: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

[lj]

-- Forwarded message --
From: lj 
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
To: "" 


Thank you for the explanation of OOXML.
But I am still confused.
To Clear Things Up I need to know if the OOXML File Format, is open
sourced... or proprietary?
(This was probably mentioned before...)
Then I would definitely have a clearer understanding.
Thanks,
LJ


On 08/02/2013, at 5:49 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" 
wrote:

> Yes there is an International Standard for OOXML.  I *suspect* that the
> provision of two-different Save As ... cases is (1) for the Transitional
> Standard OOXML which is the closest to what is acceptable by all Microsoft
> Office applications that accept .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx, and (2) for
Strict
> Standard OOXML that is accepted only by Office 2010 and 2013 and can be
> produced by 2013.  I have no idea how close the alignment of LibreOffice
is
> to those two flavors of Standard OOXML, which is a different question.
> There are those who think that Transitional is somehow not truly OOXML,
but
> both are specified in the International Standard.  Microsoft Office also
> takes advantage of the extension mechanism, MCE, that is provided in the
> International Standard.  I don't know how that sorts out in the
> interoperability between LibreOffice and Microsoft Office using OOXML.
>
> The Wikipedia article is not bad.  However, there has been significant
> maintenance of IS 29500:2008 and that has impacted the original separation
> of Transitional and Strict by making them syntactically separate while
> having considerable overlap in terms of function and semantics.  The
current
> edition of the International Standard for OOXML is IS 29500:2012.  There
is
> also an in-process amendment.
>
> - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lj [mailto:ljelou...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 15:38
> To: Simon Phipps
> Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; Boudi van Vlijmen; discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
>
> Isn't there a standard Office Open XML Document Format?
> What is the difference between office open xml and standard microsoft docx
> formats in LibreOffice and why does LibreOffice include both?
> is there also a link where I can read about this... the only think I have
> found useful is what open xml is.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Simon Phipps  wrote:
>
>> I don't know anyone who uses Office so I'm afraid I can't answer. That's
>> why I send PDFs - everyone can open those and see the same document.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Aquilina >> wrote:
>>
>>> My question though Simon is how well is ODF formatting preserved when
>>> opening up ODF formats in office 2010 and above on windows.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:11 PM
>>> To: Boudi van Vlijmen
>>> Cc: discuss@documentfoundation.org
>>> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
>>>
>>> I generally advise people to send me PDFs rather than editable documents
>>> unless there's a real need for me to edit them. That way there's no risk
>>> anyone will get locked-in to anything :-)
>>>
>>> If I *do* need to be able to edit I request Hybrid PDF files, which are
>>> PDFs
>>> with the original ODF source embedded. They are easy to make with
>>> LibreOffice and I've created a tutorial here:
>>> http://webmink.com/2012/05/07/making-hybrid-pdfs/
>>>
>>> S.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Boudi van Vlijmen
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Friends,
>>>>
>>>> Every email I send has the footer as in this one.
>>>>
>>>> The purpose is to achieve;
>>>>
>>>>   1. Vendor-lock-in awarness
>>>>   2. Hook in on the society learning curve status.
>>>>
>>>> The message is:
>>>> ODT in place of DOC/DOCX,
>>>> ODS in place of XLS/XLSX,
>>>> ODP in place of PPT/PPTX.
>>>>
>>>> ODF is one bridge to far. People think in DOC, XLS and PPT. To get
>>>> them away from that we should start from there. Not with a high level
>>>> ODF concept!
>>>>
>>>> Met vriendelijke groet,
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Boudi van Vlijmen <http://www.vanvlijmen.nl>
>>

Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

[lj]

Isn't there a standard Office Open XML Document Format?
What is the difference between office open xml and standard microsoft docx
formats in LibreOffice and why does LibreOffice include both?
is there also a link where I can read about this... the only think I have
found useful is what open xml is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML






On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Simon Phipps  wrote:

> I don't know anyone who uses Office so I'm afraid I can't answer. That's
> why I send PDFs - everyone can open those and see the same document.
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Aquilina  >wrote:
>
> > My question though Simon is how well is ODF formatting preserved when
> > opening up ODF formats in office 2010 and above on windows.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:11 PM
> > To: Boudi van Vlijmen
> > Cc: discuss@documentfoundation.org
> > Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
> >
> > I generally advise people to send me PDFs rather than editable documents
> > unless there's a real need for me to edit them. That way there's no risk
> > anyone will get locked-in to anything :-)
> >
> > If I *do* need to be able to edit I request Hybrid PDF files, which are
> > PDFs
> > with the original ODF source embedded. They are easy to make with
> > LibreOffice and I've created a tutorial here:
> > http://webmink.com/2012/05/07/making-hybrid-pdfs/
> >
> > S.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Boudi van Vlijmen
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > Every email I send has the footer as in this one.
> > >
> > > The purpose is to achieve;
> > >
> > >1. Vendor-lock-in awarness
> > >2. Hook in on the society learning curve status.
> > >
> > > The message is:
> > > ODT in place of DOC/DOCX,
> > > ODS in place of XLS/XLSX,
> > > ODP in place of PPT/PPTX.
> > >
> > > ODF is one bridge to far. People think in DOC, XLS and PPT. To get
> > > them away from that we should start from there. Not with a high level
> > > ODF concept!
> > >
> > > Met vriendelijke groet,
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Boudi van Vlijmen 
> > >
> > >   *Werk documenten*
> > > ODT, gDoc, DOC, DOCX
> > > ODS, gSheet, XLS, XLSX
> > > en ODP, gSlides, PPT, PPTX
> > >  *Distributie en Archivering*
> > > PDF/A 
> > >
> > >
> > >   [image: Inline image 1]
> > >  [image: Inline image 1]
> > >   *Open standards or Open Wallets that is the question! Waak over uw
> > > onafhankelijkheid!
> > > *
> > > http://forumstandaardisatie.nl/
> > > Beleidsquote "Rijksdiensten moeten vanaf april 2008 ODF ondersteunen.
> > > Mede-overheden en overige instellingen volgen uiterlijk december 2008.
> > > ODF = .odt voor tekst, .ods voor spreadsheets, .odp voor presentaties"
> > > Vendor-lock
> > > safe formats 
> > >  http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
> > > **
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6087 - Release Date: 02/07/13
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6087 - Release Date: 02/07/13
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> *Simon Phipps*  http://webmink.com
> *Meshed Insights & Knowledge *
> *Office:* +1 (415) 683-7660 *or* +44 (238) 098 7027
> *Mobile*:  +44 774 776 2816*
> *
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and Java Security:

[lj]

Hi,

Thank you for the links.

I am currently on Mac OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard with Java disabled on
LibreOffice and it is working normally.
I will test out the  Java 7 on Mac OSX Mountain Lion for the fixed
vulnerability in Java. The Mac OSX Mountain Lion System is running Java SE6
with LibreOffice at the momment. I think it is version 1.6.37.
That is the standard version which I installed when OSX Mountain Lion
prompted me to install Java for LibreOffice, when I first installed it and
ran the application.
 Mac OSX Mountain Lion does not come pre-installed with Java Software.


On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

> This just out:
>
> <https://blogs.oracle.com/security/entry/security_alert_for_cve_2013>
>
> (Thanks to Simon Phipps for the link.)
>
> Note that the vulnerabilities "only affect Oracle Java 7 versions."
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lj [mailto:ljelou...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 19:23
> To: Libreoffice Discussion List
> Subject: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and Java Security:
>
> Hi all,
> I am not sure if this is the correct list for this message.
> I recently read this article about a Java 1.7 Security Problem.
> Does this problem concern LibreOffice and Java???
> This macrumors article post and reads that this problem effects java
> versions 4-7. At the moment oracle are at java 7.
>
>
> http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/11/apple-blocks-java-7-on-os-x-to-address-widespread-security-threat/
>
>
> The Forbes article reveals that Mozilla, and Apple are advising users to
> disable Java on there machines because of this security problem.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseackerman/2013/01/11/us-department-of-homeland-security-calls-on-computer-users-to-disable-java/
>
>
>
> http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/01/11/apple-takes-no-prisoners-immediately-blocks-java-7-on-os-x-10-6-and-up-to-protect-mac-users/
>
>
> Can I use LibreOffice without Java enabled on my computer?? As I receive
> annoying pop up windows when I first use libreoffice to install Java on
> Apple OS X Mountain Lion.
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and Java Security:

[lj]

Hi all,
I am not sure if this is the correct list for this message.
I recently read this article about a Java 1.7 Security Problem.
Does this problem concern LibreOffice and Java???
This macrumors article post and reads that this problem effects java
versions 4-7. At the moment oracle are at java 7.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/11/apple-blocks-java-7-on-os-x-to-address-widespread-security-threat/


The Forbes article reveals that Mozilla, and Apple are advising users to
disable Java on there machines because of this security problem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseackerman/2013/01/11/us-department-of-homeland-security-calls-on-computer-users-to-disable-java/


http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/01/11/apple-takes-no-prisoners-immediately-blocks-java-7-on-os-x-10-6-and-up-to-protect-mac-users/


Can I use LibreOffice without Java enabled on my computer?? As I receive
annoying pop up windows when I first use libreoffice to install Java on
Apple OS X Mountain Lion.

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice for the enterprise

[lj]

Sort of like the way ibm docs green house project is maybe?!

https://greenhouse.lotus.com/wpsgh/wcm/myconnect/ghcontent/lotus+greenhouse+next+site/home/lgh+next+homepage

Could it go in this direction?

ljelly.

On Wednesday, 17 October 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Le 12-10-16 05:02 AM, Florian Monfort a écrit :
> > [...]
> >
> > Enterprises are looking for a "office productivity" infrastructure that
> > they can deploy in the cloud, and that could act the same as Google
> > Doc/Drive does, but by doing it with full control over the documents.
> > [...]
> There is at least one FLOSS project already offering that, although not
> in a collaborative-editing way, it's TikiWiki:
> http://www.webodf.org/apps/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabian Rodriguez
> http://libre.magicfab.ca
>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlB9bZwACgkQfUcTXFrypNX+RQCgguzvg6xC3fzCfUAJX85YOO6h
> iToAn3pVSqy1S50D5af8BmlYRqgD/2U+
> =B+8Z
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] Libre Office & Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

[lj]

Thank you for the feedback. I understand your reasons about your logic.
Although I think my opinion is quite clear and I will state reasons why
either on another post or discussion.  But my main effort at the moment is
to publish that wiki tomorrow about referencing systems in LO and to see if
it can broaden discussion, which I believe it will!! And hopefully at the
end of all discussions it should reveal a positive outcome about
referencing in LO.

ljelly

On Thursday, 16 August 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

> On 08/16/2012 06:46 AM, lj wrote:
> > A few months ago I revealed the problems in the referencing system in LO.
> > [...]
> > Zotero would have to be compatible with proprietary software it's as
> simple
> > as that to get my vote. That would be the only reason why I would vote
> for
> > zotero as a default referencing system for LO. it still has compatibility
> > issues with proprietary software. One main reason is that educational
> > institutions still use proprietary software. There are many reasons for
> > this which i don't need to explain.
>
> By that logic we wouldn't use LibreOffice either. I agree with you that
> any such project needs to aim for a "zero effort" migration path from
> other systems to LibreOffice, much like it is for Zotero. That situation
> can only improve as adoption grows, which will need your support and
> vote. We can't cite current limitations as a reason to not go for it,
> though. When the gains and (monetary, among  others) impacts to switch
> are enough, financing the effort to reach such "zero effort" for
> end-users becomes possible, particularly in large deployments.
>
> > I will
> > publish onto a wiki and send a link tomorrow about it. And maybe make
> > suggestions about zotero?
> >
> That would be most useful. I would add the suggestions I made in a
> previous post so they aren't lost in conversation :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabian Rodriguez
> http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] Libre Office & Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

[lj]

A few months ago I revealed the problems in the referencing system in LO.
After that discussion, (not mentioning a partnership with zotero because of
the reasons below) I was going to contact zotero for input and feedback and
pass it onto to LO. Although I never got around to it.

As a common user of libreoffice. I have tested zotero and  it works at the
moment as an extension for LO with LO.
Zotero would have to be compatible with proprietary software it's as simple
as that to get my vote. That would be the only reason why I would vote for
zotero as a default referencing system for LO. it still has compatibility
issues with proprietary software. One main reason is that educational
institutions still use proprietary software. There are many reasons for
this which i don't need to explain. Referencing system issues in LO  I will
publish onto a wiki and send a link tomorrow about it. And maybe make
suggestions about zotero?

ljelly

On Thursday, 16 August 2012, Anthony Easthope wrote:

> Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that
> is a nice feature.
> It is now up-to Florian perhaps to voice his opinion? it would be good
> to see this idea taken to the next level as it to me seems to be a win
> win situation, Suppose we could always vote on it. Quickly what sort of
> approach would need to be taken by TDF if they where to approach the
> Zotero project? beyond me anyway I just want to be able to take the
> credit that I was the one who suggested the partnership - I would much
> rather not get tied up with all the bureaucratic nonsense that goes on
> with negotiating deals like that, besides it is beyond me & I feel I am
> unworthy of even implementing this idea. another perhaps barrier is the
> fact that I have no knowledge in negotiating even the meanest of deals
> (except for Art - that's where I kind of excel)
> Regards
> Anthony
> :)
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, at 09:05 PM, NoOp wrote:
> > On 08/14/2012 05:23 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
> > > On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
> > ..
> > >>   * Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it
> > >>  can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes
> > >>  for Zotero
> > > You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open
> > > source.
> >
> > Really??
> >
> > These might be of interest:
> > 
> >
> > 
> > From the source code: license.txt:
> > 
> > Zotero Data Server
> > Copyright © 2010 Center for History and New Media
> > George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
> > http://zotero.org
> >
> > The Center for History and New Media distributes the Zotero Data Server
> > source code
> > under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3 (AGPLv3).
> >
> > The Zotero name is a registered trademark of George Mason University.
> > See http://zotero.org/trademark for more information.
> >
> > Third-party copyright in this distribution is noted where applicable.
> >
> > All rights not expressly granted are reserved.
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > > You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a
> > > trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web
> > > front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero.
> >
> > Agree regarding setup:
> > 
> >
> > Also might be of interest:
> > <
> https://chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/make-your-own-zotero-webdav-server-and-access-your-zotero-attachments-anywhere/38526
> >
> > 
> > 
> > [phpZoteroWebDAV 2.0 - php based WebDAV server and libra]
> > ...
> >
> > BTW: Congrats on the new baby boy!
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
>
>
> --
>
>   antiso...@myopera.com 
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchive

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Referencing systems and bibliographies in LO

[lj]

Firstly, Thank You for all of your responses.

I will definitely create a wiki page about this topic on
wiki.documentfoundation.org

I have already created an account.

just as a heads up... this is my first wiki page creation..

are there any pages where there are specific rules (criteria) or tips,
where i could put my wiki page? that can be given when creating a wiki page.

I will ask this in in ask.libreoffice.org.. as well..

and i will discuss this topic on zotero forums as well, i think Fabian, is
right that there should be more integration with zotero and libreoffice.

at the moment I don't have much time for me to create a fully featured wiki
page.. for discussion about referencing systems in libreoffice... but I can
create a document which will outline information about the referencing
systems as a draft, which I can then transfer the content over to the wiki
page creation. I think that is the best approach!

ljelly.

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:43 AM, Fabian Rodriguez
wrote:

> On 07/15/2012 09:02 AM, lj wrote:
> > In response to Fabian:
> >
> > Proposing ideas and bug fixes and changes in proprieterary software
> > probably isn't the right direction unless libreoffice have developers
> that
> > are working in partnership on referencing systems in proprieterary
> > software. Which I believe at this stage they do not.
> We agree on that.
>
> Before going any further, I'd urge you to follow Charles advice and
> formalize a wiki document with your ideas/proposal. Otherwise this will
> live and die here in the mailing list unless there is some extraordinary
> new, numerous groups of LibreOffice + bibliography users here :) Keep in
> mind you may be proposing something that already exists in other
> projects (see below).
>
> > I understand your example with microsoft onenote. A program I have used
> > myself, and I can understand its innovation and ideas, but that software
> > has broadened markets such as being available on different hardware, etc
> > the iOS platform and the Internet with storage of Microsoft skydrive.
> My main criteria for using software is it must be free, open source.
> Close second is being as good or better. If you look at mobile
> applications for Zotero, you'll see you can also use OwnCloud to store
> its database of documents - hosted on your own server. I try to
> reproduce the same functionality, or better, with free, open source
> software integration. I briefly comment on such experiments either on
> JoinDiaspora or G+:
> https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737364
> https://plus.google.com/102415554453485274892/posts/PskhYYaDMaR
>
> Of course the feature set *at the moment* is not complete. But it's more
> often than not dictated by actual needs of its users, not mostly by
> Microsoft or some other corporation which motivation #1 (and obligation
> to shareholders) is profit. I also have greater influence and chances to
> get fixes in such projects.
>
> With this in mind I find it more productive to bring closer the
> communities of existing products like Zotero, OwnCloud and LibreOffice,
> and have them build on each other's work. The goal that you are seeking
> then looks closer to me.
>
> If I were to propose something to LibreOffice devs, it would be to
> *completely remove the current bibliographic support* and
> embrace/extend/integrate Zotero into LibO, perhaps as a default 3rd
> party extension (much like happened recently with some grammar/spelling
> dictionaries I believe). The current functionality is broken, unreliable
> and requires careful understanding to wrok at a basic level, nevermind
> at the same level as Zotero (with social sharing, remote storage,
> standard formats, etc.).
>
> > In regards to the referencing system in LO. zotero is an extension that I
> > have used with LO.  Although it works very well with compatability with
>  LO
> > its referencing systems are incompatible with Microsoft office. I think
> > that is an issue with LO, and Microsoft office referencing systems. I
> will
> > confirm this from a email from zotero about this issue.
> In my opinion you will get limited success and progress with this
> approach. With the limited resources TDF has, I doubt any developer will
> be working to make it easier for you to stay working with MS Office. A
> better use of such resources would be to demonstrate and advocate the
> use of Zotero + LibreOffice to your peers (or in the environment where
> you seem to have no choice) - and fix whatever is missing to make it
> easier for MS Office/Notes users to leave that platform.
>
> > As a result, I believe this is a main issue and concern with referencing
> > systems in LO.  compatability with properitary software referen

[tdf-discuss] Re: Referencing systems and bibliographies in LO

[lj]

In response to Fabian:

Proposing ideas and bug fixes and changes in proprieterary software
probably isn't the right direction unless libreoffice have developers that
are working in partnership on referencing systems in proprieterary
software. Which I believe at this stage they do not.

I understand your example with microsoft onenote. A program I have used
myself, and I can understand its innovation and ideas, but that software
has broadened markets such as being available on different hardware, etc
the iOS platform and the Internet with storage of Microsoft skydrive.

In regards to the referencing system in LO. zotero is an extension that I
have used with LO.  Although it works very well with compatability with  LO
its referencing systems are incompatible with Microsoft office. I think
that is an issue with LO, and Microsoft office referencing systems. I will
confirm this from a email from zotero about this issue.

As a result, I believe this is a main issue and concern with referencing
systems in LO.  compatability with properitary software referencing systems
etc MO.

Referencing systems and making bibliographies I believe in LO needs to be
created for users with a simplistic default interface without add ons and
extensions to avoid in compatability with different versions of software
releases from zotero and LO.

My problem is having a reference from libreoffice and trying to use it on
Mo. it is not compatible.


But. The only way to make the software more compatible for users is to
propose a new referencing system in libreoffice, that would allow the
document to be read in a format in which both office suites would
understand. An example would be PDF and integrating referencing
compatabilities in a PDF.  or referencing systems with .doc files.
I'm still not clear about this topic.


LO needs a new default  referencing system because I believe it is not
clear enough or fast enough to store references for users using libreoffice
writer. There are some confusing steps involved including using the
bibliographic database where functions do not make sense.
LO should consider options I believe to make referencing separate from
libreoffice base and making  2 referencing systems. One that integrates a
utility with storing references using endnotes and footnotes with a simpler
and faster design that can be used for advanced users in base to store
multiple references for a main project, with a design that is based on the
storage of references only. This can be from books images videos and
websites.  and a simpler system for users that want to generate a reference
that is created with the usage of forms and detailed texts that can be
linked to end notes and footnotes without the reference being stored in
libreoffice base.

ljelly.


On Sunday, 15 July 2012, lj wrote:

> In response to Charles:
>
> I am proposing a future set of ideas for discussion about libreoffice and
> it's referencing system as I believe it is not very good at the moment
> compared to other software open source proprietary in the way that
> companies create referencing systems.
>
> ljelly.
>
> On Friday, 13 July 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
>
>>
>> On 07/12/2012 08:03 PM, lj wrote:
>> > If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I
>> can
>> > post this in the right spot! [...]
>> >
>> > I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
>> > Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and
>> easy
>> > to answer others may not be relevant.
>> > Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the
>> referencing
>> > system [...]:
>> This statement summarizes it best IMO:
>> > [The] bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, is
>> > vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
>> > follow the direct steps!
>> In my dealings with a few customers I've helped with LibreOffice, they
>> have moved to Zotero, a free, open source system to easily gather, share
>> and use bibliography references. I am not expert with Zotero, but have
>> explored it to determine how it works and what is needed. One important
>> problem is you can't reproduce the current sharing/social/public web
>> part of the service at zotero.org, but everything else is free, open
>> source software.
>>
>> > 3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
>> > with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or
>> libreoffice,
>> > features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if
>> needed
>> > to be posted)
>> What I've observed is that once users decide to go for LibreOffice, they
>> will want to convert to other free,open so

[tdf-discuss] Re: Referencing systems and bibliographies in LO

[lj]

In response to Charles:

I am proposing a future set of ideas for discussion about libreoffice and
it's referencing system as I believe it is not very good at the moment
compared to other software open source proprietary in the way that
companies create referencing systems.

ljelly.

On Friday, 13 July 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

>
> On 07/12/2012 08:03 PM, lj wrote:
> > If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I can
> > post this in the right spot! [...]
> >
> > I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
> > Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and easy
> > to answer others may not be relevant.
> > Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the
> referencing
> > system [...]:
> This statement summarizes it best IMO:
> > [The] bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, is
> > vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
> > follow the direct steps!
> In my dealings with a few customers I've helped with LibreOffice, they
> have moved to Zotero, a free, open source system to easily gather, share
> and use bibliography references. I am not expert with Zotero, but have
> explored it to determine how it works and what is needed. One important
> problem is you can't reproduce the current sharing/social/public web
> part of the service at zotero.org, but everything else is free, open
> source software.
>
> > 3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
> > with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or
> libreoffice,
> > features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if
> needed
> > to be posted)
> What I've observed is that once users decide to go for LibreOffice, they
> will want to convert to other free,open source software (like Zotero).
> Using both operating systems/applications on either interchangeably
> becomes impractical very quickly. Keep in mind it's rather difficult to
> influence important changes/bug fixes in non-free, non-open source
> software, so it's  a waste of time going that route (in my opinion!). I
> am very biaised about this, though, I encourage you to ask more
> questions and make your own opinion.
>
>
> > 4. Recent versions of Microsoft Office since 2007 have tried to create
> > uncomplex versions of referencing and bibliographic citations. These
> > systems work, but are still limited.
> OneNote seems very popular. Keep in mind Microsoft is a business and
> will do everything it can to make it easy/pleasant/profitable to stay
> with Microsoft Office. Such a system won't exist in LibreOffice in the
> short or even long term specially when specialized 3rd party
> alternatives like Zotero exist and speciall when core functionality in
> LibreOffice is not feature-complete/bug-free yet. Someone / some
> organization would need to be very motivated and have good resources to
> attempt this.
>
> > 5. LO should create a new referencing system.
> See above.
>
> >
> > Questions about referencing in LO: Not in any order.
> > [..]
>
> I lack the time to answer more, hopefully someone else can jump in and
> help here.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabian Rodriguez
> http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca
>
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[tdf-discuss] Referencing systems and bibliographies in LO

[lj]

If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I can
post this in the right spot!

Libreoffice, Academics, Developers.
Referencing Systems and making a bibliography:
Discussion Post on Referencing Systems:
Contributing Email = Long Email Post a lot of information to discuss: It
took a long time to think of questions and statements that are helpful.
I am a high school  student that uses LO. I have never had the need to use
the LO OO referencing system extensively in assessments or work since I
started using OpenOffice in 2007 on Ubuntu, and recently LO until I tried
to use it today just to explore its features and to have a better
understanding of referencing systems on LO and Word. It has never occurred
to me to use the  bibliographic database system in LO, because i always
found the database integration complex. I am familiar with the Libreoffice
Openoffice application environments.


I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and easy
to answer others may not be relevant.
Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the referencing
system:

Opinionated Statements from my perspective: (these do not have to be
answered, as its my opinion.)
1.  The bibliographic referencing system is complex and difficult to use by
default. I found it time consuming  to insert citations and a bibliography.
2. little documentation has been made about the bibliographic referencing
system in LO. I  read the help documentation and wiki online, and have
viewed a youtube video about bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, it is
vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
follow the direct steps!
3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or libreoffice,
features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if needed
to be posted)
4. Recent versions of Microsoft Office since 2007 have tried to create
uncomplex versions of referencing and bibliographic citations. These
systems work, but are still limited.
5. LO should create a new referencing system.

Questions about referencing in LO: Not in any order.

1.  Does the referencing system in LO take up a lot of space. example: if i
removed the bibliographic database and bibliographic referencing systems
 in libreoffice would it be smaller as an install and download?
2. Why do Academics and Students use bibliographic systems to reference
there work?
3. What is the easiest common method to insert a bibliography in LO?
4.  Why do LO and Microsoft Word use different referencing systems? How can
they be more compatible?
5.  Do referencing systems in both LO or Word need to be improved?
6.  Why is it complex to insert a citation and bibliography?
7. Do you agree with my statements why or why not?
8. out of curiosity: how was referencing done in Microsoft Office 2002 2003
and earlier versions? does any one know? (brief explanation)

These Questions and Statements is to enable discussion on referencing in LO
on all platforms and Microsft Word for mac and windows.

ljelly.

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice for Academic Work -- College/University

[lj]

If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I can
post this in the right spot!

Libreoffice, Academics, Developers.
Referencing Systems and making a bibliography:
Discussion Post on Referencing Systems:
Contributing Email = Long Email Post a lot of information to discuss: It
took a long time to think of questions and statements that are helpful.
I am a high school  student that uses LO. I have never had the need to use
the LO OO referencing system extensively in assessments or work since I
started using OpenOffice in 2007 on Ubuntu, and recently LO until I tried
to use it today just to explore its features and to have a better
understanding of referencing systems on LO and Word. It has never occurred
to me to use the  bibliographic database system in LO, because i always
found the database integration complex. I am familiar with the Libreoffice
Openoffice application environments.


I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and easy
to answer others may not be relevant.
Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the referencing
system:

Opinionated Statements from my perspective: (these do not have to be
answered, as its my opinion.)
1.  The bibliographic referencing system is complex and difficult to use by
default. I found it time consuming  to insert citations and a bibliography.
2. little documentation has been made about the bibliographic referencing
system in LO. I  read the help documentation and wiki online, and have
viewed a youtube video about bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, it is
vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
follow the direct steps!
3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or libreoffice,
features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if needed
to be posted)
4. Recent versions of Microsoft Office since 2007 have tried to create
uncomplex versions of referencing and bibliographic citations. These
systems work, but are still limited.
5. LO should create a new referencing system.

Questions about referencing in LO: Not in any order.

1.  Does the referencing system in LO take up a lot of space. example: if i
removed the bibliographic database and bibliographic referencing systems
 in libreoffice would it be smaller as an install and download?
2. Why do Academics and Students use bibliographic systems to reference
there work?
3. What is the easiest common method to insert a bibliography in LO?
4.  Why do LO and Microsoft Word use different referencing systems? How can
they be more compatible?
5.  Do referencing systems in both LO or Word need to be improved?
6.  Why is it complex to insert a citation and bibliography?
7. Do you agree with my statements why or why not?
8. out of curiosity: how was referencing done in Microsoft Office 2002 2003
and earlier versions? does any one know? (brief explanation)

These Questions and Statements is to enable discussion on referencing in LO
on all platforms and Microsft Word for mac and windows.

ljelly.


On Tuesday, 22 May 2012, NoOp wrote:

>
> On 05/21/2012 01:18 PM, Bruce Byfield wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 20, 2012 09:54:21 PM NoOp wrote:
> >> On 05/18/2012 03:14 PM, Bruce Byfield wrote:
> >> > On Friday, May 18, 2012 11:29:33 AM NoOp wrote:
> >> >> On 05/17/2012 03:15 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
> >> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> > There is a need for a few templates for academic use; a built-in
> >> >>
> >> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> You might want to contact/collaborate with Orest Kinasevyc. He wrote
> >> >
> >> >> several templates for APA Style 5th & 6th editions for students:
> >> > My own academic days are past, so please excuse a suggestion I'm not
> >> > willing to implement myself.
> >> >
> >> > However, I'm sure that more people would use the bibliographical
> tools if
> >> >  the samples given weren't misleading. Anyone trying to learn from
> them
> >> > might easily give up in despair.
> >>
> >> Perhaps you can explain as to how the samples are misleading? Maybe you
> >> can provide a sample(s) of your own. Or be helpful and provide links to
> >> other APA templates that meet your approval.
> >
> > My apologies for not being clearer. I wasn't talking about this
> particular
> > template, but the default examples given in LibreOffice itself.
> >
>
> Ah. Thanks for the clarification.
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted



-- 
Laurence Jeloudev
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose
your emai

Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice for Academic Work -- College/University

[lj]

I'm sorry to bring up the Microsoft topic. But it is improving in
Libreoffice, ive used a daily build of LO 3.6 as I am receiving docx files
and they are mostly now opening only in LO with correct margining and
formatting layouts from MO. All I can say is that LO should not give up on
developing software with compatability with MO or IWork. As in an academic
and education area I find myself working with other formats from other
users, and most of the time it works well in LO.

We shall see what the future reveals.
ljelly.

On Saturday, 19 May 2012, Patrick GERIN wrote:

> Le 16/05/2012 7:34, Marc Paré a écrit :
>
>> ...snip...
>> Thanks, I should have mentioned that I was not really looking for the MS
>> format compatibility as this is an on-going process, even almost a "cat and
>> mouse" process for LibreOffice. I find that professors I collaborate with
>> are more forgiving of the ODF format and will accept submissions in ODF
>> from their students. The reason for this is that some of these professors
>> use LibreOffice at home and do conferences with their laptop with both MSO
>> and LibreOffice on their machines.
>> So, I am really looking for people on this list who are in academia and
>> have "extended" their LibreOffice for use in their work. What extensions
>> are they using, and, it would be nice to know why?
>> Cheers,
>> Marc
>>
>>  Dear Marc,
> I am working in an university environment.
> I'm successfully using  LibreOffice without any add-on or extension.
> However, my use of LibreOffice is quite limited in my profesionnal
> environment,  due to the following problems:
>
> 1.  I have to work with files (texts, spreadsheets, presentations) that
> have to be edited and exchanged with students and colleagues, who are
> mostly M$ users (sorry to come back again to the same M$ story...)
>
> 2. We tried to select Calc as the reference spreadsheet for all data
> treatment in my team, but  absence of X-error bars is too limiting for our
> specific use.
>
> As mentionned by others, Zotero is used in our university environment for
> bibliographic citations.
>
> Hope this can help,
> Best regards,
> PG
>
> --
> ==
> Patrick GERIN
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-**
> unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**
> Netiquette 
> List archive: 
> http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Laurence Jeloudev
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose
your emails and then print them off!

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] Mail Merge to Email in Writer

[lj]

I have to agree with the comment of what an email client does. We shouldn't
be integrating the same features as what an email client does. As
Libreoffice is not an email client. It is a word processor office suite not
an email client.  Features for word processing application are needed not
an email client. I believe it is useless code. Most enterprises either use
outlook thunderbird or groupwise for their businesses. Even some businesses
run google apps now, office 365. The point is the obvious mail client which
everyone can use are really only 3 if you think about it.

Another suggestion is if Libreoffice integrated features of mail merge to
somehow combine with an email client really easily?

Finally, Libreoffice is missing many collaboration and sharing features and
auto save features that are featured in os x lion and pages. Another
suggestion maybe to have a central specific display window similar to the
save and open functions in the office suite that was purely based on
sharing and collaboration and file sharing to other people and or email via
a mail merge. Another piece of code that was smaller and more integrated
into Libreoffice than the original mail merge code.

Just suggestions.
LJ

On Friday, 13 April 2012, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

> On 13/04/2012 13:30, Cor Nouws wrote:
>
>> Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote (13-04-12 14:02)
>>
>>  The File-Send-Document As Email already calls "random email clients" as
>>> in the default email client.would it be that hard to replace the
>>> smtp function with a call to the DEFAULT mail client? (I know nothing
>>> about coding.)
>>>
>>
>> With the mail functionality from mail merge there is control over title,
>> content, attachments, to, cc, bcc, the address from etc.
>> All in a single component, without having to bother about different
>> programs.
>>
>>
> OK, keep this functionality.
> But LO MUST keep a record of the emails sent in some way - it doesn't at
> the moment, which is not a good thing. That is my main objection - if this
> function was passed through an email client there would be a record of the
> sent emails.
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-**
> unsubscribe/<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**
> Netiquette <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette>
> List archive: 
> http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/<http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/>
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>


-- 
Laurence Jeloudev
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose
your emails and then print them off!

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] Mail Merge to Email in Writer

[lj]

If this was a vote.
I agree it needs to be done.
A major idea that needs to be rethought.
It would work better if it just worked for email clients and there would be
probably less code in writer.

On Friday, 13 April 2012, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

> I had cause the other day to do a Mail Merge to Email in Writer.
> I was horrified to discover that the Mail Merge to Email function does NOT
> call the default email client, but uses an in-built smtp function within
> Writer.
> The major problem with that as far as I can see is that there is NO RECORD
> ANYWHERE of the emails sent by that process.
> Surely in the days of Sarbanes-Oxley and other legislation that is an
> appalling omission?
> Wouldn't it be far easier to call the default email client rather than use
> some in-built sending mechanism, just like it does if you use the
> File-Send-Document as Email?
>
> Secondly (and this is a usage comment not a plea for a change of
> function!)) using a Gmail account in this function causes LO to become
> non-responsive - it doesn't like the SSL function
>
>
> --
>
> Registered Linux User no 240308
> GBP's alternative 
> computing:http://gbplinuxfoss.**blogspot.com/
> Say No to 
> OOXMLhttp://www.linuxjournal.**com/article/9594#mpart8
> I only accept odf or pdf documents by email
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-**
> unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**
> Netiquette 
> List archive: 
> http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

-- 
Laurence Jeloudev
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose
your emails and then print them off!

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Impress Bug for pptx files.

[lj]

To LibreOffice,
Could somebody please help me with this bug... that is occuring in
libreoffice impress..
I was wondering also if it could be fixed in a unstable release of
libreoffice 3.6 soon mac / linux / windows/ daily release??? as all the
pptx files work very well in libreoffice accept for this annoying bug.
Or even if some is working on it?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/734726

-- 
bash321

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?

[lj]

Libreoffice just needs step by step work with constant maintenance and
fresh ideas for consumers that work. Microsoft and apple have a limited
resource in finding ideas and to testing there office suites.

On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, lj  wrote:
> It is very difficult for libreoffice to be cloud based. Libreoffice is
doing the right thing with fixing bugs. But they need to stick with one
code base in the cloud. Such as html5 or java. I would use html5.
Libreoffice writer desktop suite is really good because it is fast. Speed
is a priority for people wanting to get work done. It needs to be
incorporated in all the apps including the start up of libreoffice. It is
fast but it must be the fastest. Clear and simple to getting a document
spreadsheet power point created. That is the problem that I find in
Microsoft office it freezes sometimes and the ribbon makes dialogue boxes
complicated not simple for power users and more random errors. Libreoffice
must create a cloud based app. The key for libreoffice and most likely for
apple and especially Microsoft is updated fixes and maintenance and lastly
releases.  It is something that libreoffice does and communicates well with
the use of schedules and wikis. The cloud will need to have constant
support and maintenance and releases for it to work effectively with users
and their different desktop environments. It is a lot of hard work. But if
it worked libreoffice would defanitely not go under or in strife like
Internet explorer on Mac or openoffice. At the end of the day. There is a
way to bridge the cloud and the desktop. Some people do not like working in
the cloud because of security. Some people like to work on the cloud
because of collaboration. If libreoffice could incorporate both, it would
be something that google apple and Microsoft would need to think about.
> Lj.
>
> On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>> On 29 November 2011 10:39, lj  wrote:
>>
>>  Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat
>>> that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's
free
>>> and easy to use.
>>
>>
>> Yes, people expect to get stuff like this for free from the internet so
it
>> is difficult for MS or Apple to charge extra for office software in this
>> environment and if they offer it for free they run the risk of killing
>> their own cash cows on the desktop.
>>
>>
>>> It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile
>>> and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay
in
>>> the game.
>>>
>>
>> Cloud is one area where features do tend to be light so a cloud based
LibO
>> would be a killer app, especially if there was a compact version that
could
>> run on a cell phone, locally. But the big problem is that this is a
massive
>> amount of work and by the time it is done, it might well be too late.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Lj.
>>> On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>>> > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman >> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Olav Dahlum wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Ian Lynch wrote
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Google should do a version of Office based on the
>>> >>>>> OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it
available
>>> >>>>> freely
>>> >>>>> and brand it Google Office.  Given their brand strength and
>>> marketing,
>>> >>>>> that
>>> >>>>> would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do.
>>> Slightly
>>> >>>>> surprised they haven't already done it.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the
>>> "Cloud"
>>> >>>> with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline
suite
>>> >>>> doesn't
>>> >>>> make much sense...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed"
>>> >>>> countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so
>>> for
>>> >>>> more
>>> >>>> than 2/3 of the world's population
>>> >>>> (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm<
>>> http:

Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?

[lj]

It is very difficult for libreoffice to be cloud based. Libreoffice is
doing the right thing with fixing bugs. But they need to stick with one
code base in the cloud. Such as html5 or java. I would use html5.
Libreoffice writer desktop suite is really good because it is fast. Speed
is a priority for people wanting to get work done. It needs to be
incorporated in all the apps including the start up of libreoffice. It is
fast but it must be the fastest. Clear and simple to getting a document
spreadsheet power point created. That is the problem that I find in
Microsoft office it freezes sometimes and the ribbon makes dialogue boxes
complicated not simple for power users and more random errors. Libreoffice
must create a cloud based app. The key for libreoffice and most likely for
apple and especially Microsoft is updated fixes and maintenance and lastly
releases.  It is something that libreoffice does and communicates well with
the use of schedules and wikis. The cloud will need to have constant
support and maintenance and releases for it to work effectively with users
and their different desktop environments. It is a lot of hard work. But if
it worked libreoffice would defanitely not go under or in strife like
Internet explorer on Mac or openoffice. At the end of the day. There is a
way to bridge the cloud and the desktop. Some people do not like working in
the cloud because of security. Some people like to work on the cloud
because of collaboration. If libreoffice could incorporate both, it would
be something that google apple and Microsoft would need to think about.
Lj.

On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch  wrote:
> On 29 November 2011 10:39, lj  wrote:
>
>  Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat
>> that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's
free
>> and easy to use.
>
>
> Yes, people expect to get stuff like this for free from the internet so it
> is difficult for MS or Apple to charge extra for office software in this
> environment and if they offer it for free they run the risk of killing
> their own cash cows on the desktop.
>
>
>> It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile
>> and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay
in
>> the game.
>>
>
> Cloud is one area where features do tend to be light so a cloud based LibO
> would be a killer app, especially if there was a compact version that
could
> run on a cell phone, locally. But the big problem is that this is a
massive
> amount of work and by the time it is done, it might well be too late.
>
>
>
>
>> Lj.
>> On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>> > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman > >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Olav Dahlum wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Ian Lynch wrote
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Google should do a version of Office based on the
>> >>>>> OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it
available
>> >>>>> freely
>> >>>>> and brand it Google Office.  Given their brand strength and
>> marketing,
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>> would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do.
>> Slightly
>> >>>>> surprised they haven't already done it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the
>> "Cloud"
>> >>>> with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite
>> >>>> doesn't
>> >>>> make much sense...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed"
>> >>>> countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so
>> for
>> >>>> more
>> >>>> than 2/3 of the world's population
>> >>>> (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm<
>> http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm>
>> >>>> )
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative
to
>> MS
>> >>>> Office (but would love to see some numbers :) )
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> Just a couple of observations here.  First, most businesses do not
and
>> >> probably will not in the near future,  go to cloud computing.
>> >
&g

Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?

[lj]

I think libreoffice needs to create or adopt cloud technologies. Microsoft
will most likely try to go into the cloud area. With sky drive. My scary
thought is what apple might do with iWork if it were to turn its code base
into the adoption of cloud technologies like or better than google docs.
The problem I think consumers are dealing with are inconsistency of
features in cloud based technologies which are in normal office suites.
Such as having a default font for text. Which Microsoft office and
libreoffice have. But not google docs. Microsoft have to contribute their
code only to the windows os. With google they have the power of making
changes that suit apple windows and Linux users. With libreoffice I believe
it has the real advantage of being cross platform. At the end of the day.
Microsoft do have office on apple computers. It won't last for long because
Microsoft and apple are two different companies with different objectives
and goals. Office on the Mac will most likely become Internet explorer on
the Mac. Because IWork I believe will be heavily marketed by apple over the
next two years. Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat
that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's free
and easy to use. It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile
and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay in
the game.
Lj.
On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch  wrote:
> On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman wrote:
>
>> Olav Dahlum wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ian Lynch wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Google should do a version of Office based on the
>>>>> OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available
>>>>> freely
>>>>> and brand it Google Office.  Given their brand strength and marketing,
>>>>> that
>>>>> would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do.
Slightly
>>>>> surprised they haven't already done it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the
"Cloud"
>>>> with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite
>>>> doesn't
>>>> make much sense...
>>>>
>>>> In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed"
>>>> countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so for
>>>> more
>>>> than 2/3 of the world's population
>>>> (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm<
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm>
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative to
MS
>>>> Office (but would love to see some numbers :) )
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Just a couple of observations here.  First, most businesses do not and
>> probably will not in the near future,  go to cloud computing.
>
>
> I sort of hope not, gives us competitive advantage but realistically, most
> businesses are SMEs employing less than 10 people so I should think "most"
> will migrate at least to partial use of cloud services. Like us, it
doesn't
> have to be all one thing or another.
>
>  there are several reasons for this, foremost, security.
>
>
> If cloud security was an insurmountable problem, I doubt we would have
> on-line banking.
>
>
>>  Companies do not want important documents with proprietary information
>> flying back and forth on the internet where they could be intercepted.
>
>
> That misunderstands Cloud. We have content types that are secure to the
> people that need to see them. Some pages on the web site can only be
viewed
> by people with certain permissions - eg the qualifications regulators and
> us. If there is something that is really, really top secret we can make a
> special arrangement for it but sending as an e-mail attachment is probably
> worse security. In fact, Cloud enables us to authenticate certificates
> directly on-line without a charge so it increases security in our most
> important business activity. If we change our policies and procedures, the
> regulators get them immediately, we don't have to remember to send them an
> updated file and they don't have to have a management system for different
> file versions.
>
>
>> Second, reliability.  Remote servers and the infrastructure between local
>> computers and them have been known to go down.  Most companies don't want
>> to have to rely on vulnerable remote 

Re: [tdf-discuss] Auto saving and google cloud connect oo2gdocs

[lj]

My Question is their a way to improve LibreOffice and Google Docs
synchronization similar to MIcrosoft Google Cloud Connect for Microsoft
Office. Or if Libreoffice could a create a feature that was better???
lj.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:51 PM, lj  wrote:

> I recorded a macro and ran but not a timer, that's not really what I was
> looking for.
>
> I was wondering if there was a question that could be answered to Google
> Docs Synchronization and LibreOffice.
>
> About the OO2gdocs extension that provides this functionality. I asked the
> developer if he could improve Google Docs Synchronization. Here is my Email
> that I sent him..
>
> But this is there from some time ;-)
> I think it was 2-3 years ago when I added autosave to OOo2GD. It works in
> this way that when you download document from Google Docs you need to mark
> "autoupdate" (you may mark in Configuration to default autoupdate). After
> this when you will save your document it will be send back to Google Docs.
> This is done after saving of document (exactly in each situation when
> modification date or size of file will be changed).
> Auto save working in this way that this will work without saving is
> possible, but much more difficult to do. Now I need to have file to send it
> to Google Docs, and OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice need some time to create
> file, so eve if I will with some interval ask OO.org for saving file I will
> need to wait to this, and it may stop OO.org.. maybe if I will be able
> to access autosaved file? I will look on it.
>
> I'm using official API from Google to upload/download files. Google Cloud
> connect uses some different way to work with Google Docs, I cannot be sure
> but I think it is something working in this way that MS Office sends
> information about changes in document (not in file but in document) to
> Cloud Connect servers, those servers create new file and update it in
> Google Docs. The same in opposite way, so first file is downloaded from
> Google Docs to Cloud Connect servers, and those servers sends diff to MS
> Office. I think Google bought Cloud Connect mainly because of this software
> able to sync documents ;-)
>
> OOo2GD is one of my weekend projects, and I'm implementing new features to
> it when I have time and nothing more interesting to do ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Przemek
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 09:41, Laurence Jeloudev 
>  wrote:
>
>> Hi, i'm guessing your the maintainer of the OO2GDOCS extension for
>> OpenOffice and LibreOffice. I've been using Ubuntu as my primary OS since I
>> have been at school in 2007, at home. I have been using your extension
>> since 2009. I was wondering if there would be a way to make it more
>> compatible with google docs. Google Docs has an auto saving feature that I
>> use for my school work at school. It is really good!!! works brilliantly
>> with any web browser including internet explorer. would there be a way for
>> you integrate this feature into OO2GDOCS Extension so that once documents
>> are uploaded they can automatically saved and uploaded to the cloud.
>> Something that would be similar to Google Cloud Connect but a whole lot
>> better!!! by the way do you have to get permission from Google for this
>> extension to integrate well? as it would be for libreoffice. would there be
>> a time frame if you were planning to release this schedule in your
>> extension? The reason I ask for this feature is because it would
>> significantly help market free open source office software, if it was
>> possibly integrated with google docs, as it is an auto saving feature. Auto
>> saving features are now starting to be implemented into MAC OS X Lion
>> include its word processor program Iwork 09. I was wondering if this auto
>> saving feature was possible, because that would mean in the long run free
>> office programs (like libreoffice) could have auto saving features like
>> Iwork. As I most likely believe Microsoft Office would be including auto
>> saving features in the next version of their own office suites for mac and
>> windows in the very near future aka. next year!
>> http://code.google.com/p/ooo2gd/issues/detail?id=102#c5 I have also
>> commented in this post about java GUI. it is a whole lot quicker. and looks
>> slicker. lj. normal user of libreoffice.
>>
>>
>>
>> lj.
>> -
>>
>> This message was sent to you from your Google profile. The sender does
>> not have your email address.
>>
>> If you no longer wish to receive messages from your Google profile, you
>> may edit your 
>> settings<https://profi

Re: [tdf-discuss] Auto saving and google cloud connect oo2gdocs

[lj]

I recorded a macro and ran but not a timer, that's not really what I was
looking for.

I was wondering if there was a question that could be answered to Google
Docs Synchronization and LibreOffice.

About the OO2gdocs extension that provides this functionality. I asked the
developer if he could improve Google Docs Synchronization. Here is my Email
that I sent him..

But this is there from some time ;-)
I think it was 2-3 years ago when I added autosave to OOo2GD. It works in
this way that when you download document from Google Docs you need to mark
"autoupdate" (you may mark in Configuration to default autoupdate). After
this when you will save your document it will be send back to Google Docs.
This is done after saving of document (exactly in each situation when
modification date or size of file will be changed).
Auto save working in this way that this will work without saving is
possible, but much more difficult to do. Now I need to have file to send it
to Google Docs, and OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice need some time to create
file, so eve if I will with some interval ask OO.org for saving file I will
need to wait to this, and it may stop OO.org.. maybe if I will be able
to access autosaved file? I will look on it.

I'm using official API from Google to upload/download files. Google Cloud
connect uses some different way to work with Google Docs, I cannot be sure
but I think it is something working in this way that MS Office sends
information about changes in document (not in file but in document) to
Cloud Connect servers, those servers create new file and update it in
Google Docs. The same in opposite way, so first file is downloaded from
Google Docs to Cloud Connect servers, and those servers sends diff to MS
Office. I think Google bought Cloud Connect mainly because of this software
able to sync documents ;-)

OOo2GD is one of my weekend projects, and I'm implementing new features to
it when I have time and nothing more interesting to do ;-)

Regards,
Przemek

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 09:41, Laurence Jeloudev 
 wrote:

> Hi, i'm guessing your the maintainer of the OO2GDOCS extension for
> OpenOffice and LibreOffice. I've been using Ubuntu as my primary OS since I
> have been at school in 2007, at home. I have been using your extension
> since 2009. I was wondering if there would be a way to make it more
> compatible with google docs. Google Docs has an auto saving feature that I
> use for my school work at school. It is really good!!! works brilliantly
> with any web browser including internet explorer. would there be a way for
> you integrate this feature into OO2GDOCS Extension so that once documents
> are uploaded they can automatically saved and uploaded to the cloud.
> Something that would be similar to Google Cloud Connect but a whole lot
> better!!! by the way do you have to get permission from Google for this
> extension to integrate well? as it would be for libreoffice. would there be
> a time frame if you were planning to release this schedule in your
> extension? The reason I ask for this feature is because it would
> significantly help market free open source office software, if it was
> possibly integrated with google docs, as it is an auto saving feature. Auto
> saving features are now starting to be implemented into MAC OS X Lion
> include its word processor program Iwork 09. I was wondering if this auto
> saving feature was possible, because that would mean in the long run free
> office programs (like libreoffice) could have auto saving features like
> Iwork. As I most likely believe Microsoft Office would be including auto
> saving features in the next version of their own office suites for mac and
> windows in the very near future aka. next year!
> http://code.google.com/p/ooo2gd/issues/detail?id=102#c5 I have also
> commented in this post about java GUI. it is a whole lot quicker. and looks
> slicker. lj. normal user of libreoffice.
>
>
>
> lj.
> -
>
> This message was sent to you from your Google profile. The sender does not
> have your email address.
>
> If you no longer wish to receive messages from your Google profile, you
> may edit your settings<https://profiles.google.com/113822113008490295511/edit>
> .
>





On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Michael Adams wrote:

> On Friday 11 November 2011 09:07, lj wrote:
> > To libreoffice,
> >
> > I was wondering if there was a way to implement google docs into
> > libreoffice effectively with auto save. Similar to auto saving on
> > google docs.
> > I sent an email to the developer of the project oo2gdocs He replied
> > and said it can only effectively work if the document is imported
> > from google docs. Would there be a way for a document to auto
> > update a

[tdf-discuss] Auto saving and google cloud connect oo2gdocs

[lj]

To libreoffice,

I was wondering if there was a way to implement google docs into
libreoffice effectively with auto save. Similar to auto saving on google
docs.
I sent an email to the developer of the project oo2gdocs He replied and
said it can only effectively work if the document is imported from google
docs. Would there be a way for a document to auto update and save to the
hdd and google docs at same time? When the document is from libreoffice??

Lj

-- 
Laurence Jeloudev
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose
your emails and then print them off!

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[tdf-discuss] Feature Request:

[lj]

Google Docs Uploader or
Character Recognition integration in libreoffice.
can It happen and work on linux, windows, mac osx?

-- 
Laurence Jeloudev

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[tdf-discuss] Feature Request: Capitalizing Letters:

[lj]

Capitalizing Letters in LibreOffice.
Maybe we can integrate a shortcut or something like in Microsoft Office
(Shift F3) as it is a desperate feature that needs to be implemented.

such as from a sentence like this. Such As From A Sentence Like This. SUCH
AS FROM A SENTENCE LIKE THIS.

capitalizing titles, with first letters and having just capitals. and lower
case. I know you can enable as a macro but it doesn't do the capital letter
at the beginning of each word it only does. Such as a sentence like this.
after full stops.
see the problem with open office.
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2147

-- 
ljelly
Do us a favour and get gmail (http://www.gmail.com), so you don't loose your
emails and then print them off!

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted