Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 24 April 2011 21:53, Jaime R. Garza wrote: > > > > > >> I have some doubts as to whether the two products will diverge now that > > Oracle has decided to end its involvement with OpenOffice.org . I > suspect > > that at some point rather than let OOo just whither and die it will merge > > with The Document Foundation and the two will become essentially one. If > > that happens it might be a good idea to use both names, OOo could end up > > being the Windows version and LO the Linux and other OS version. Or > > something like that. > > Sorry, but I don't agree, LibreOffice is to stay and I couldn't care less > about OpenOffice name. But that's just my opinion. > It would be silly to completely ignore the fact that OpenOffice is a very strong and established brand name. All other things being equal, that could be an important marketing asset - so perhaps better discussed on the marketing list. To me, what matters is furthering FOSS, we should avoid counter-productive wars and work collaboratively where ever possible. > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
Jaime R. Garza wrote: I have some doubts as to whether the two products will diverge now that Oracle has decided to end its involvement with OpenOffice.org . I suspect that at some point rather than let OOo just whither and die it will merge with The Document Foundation and the two will become essentially one. If that happens it might be a good idea to use both names, OOo could end up being the Windows version and LO the Linux and other OS version. Or something like that. Sorry, but I don't agree, LibreOffice is to stay and I couldn't care less about OpenOffice name. But that's just my opinion. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying, I agree, LO is here to stay, I think what might happen is that OOo will join TDF, not the other way around. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
> > >> I have some doubts as to whether the two products will diverge now that > Oracle has decided to end its involvement with OpenOffice.org . I suspect > that at some point rather than let OOo just whither and die it will merge > with The Document Foundation and the two will become essentially one. If > that happens it might be a good idea to use both names, OOo could end up > being the Windows version and LO the Linux and other OS version. Or > something like that. Sorry, but I don't agree, LibreOffice is to stay and I couldn't care less about OpenOffice name. But that's just my opinion. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
And I found another couple of similarly completely uncategorized forums. The forums at http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ look much more promising, but are not these two products expected to diverge more and more? In my understanding LibreOffice is a new project that _started_ with OOo code but will be building separately. Or will changes made to LibreOffice be merged back into OOo? Obviously I am not a developer so I do not understand how these "branches" or "forks" work. I'm not asking to be educated here, that would be OT. Just saying that if LibreOffice is indeed a new product that will become less and less like OOo it ought to have its own "official" nice forum. Meanwhile sure, the link to http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be added prominently on the help page of the libreoffice site. Since I am not any kind of expert or web developer and have little understanding of how OS projects work, it would be silly for me to ask to be on the web team just to make one edit. I hope someone more appropriate for web team membership does that soon. thanks, kazar I have some doubts as to whether the two products will diverge now that Oracle has decided to end its involvement with OpenOffice.org . I suspect that at some point rather than let OOo just whither and die it will merge with The Document Foundation and the two will become essentially one. If that happens it might be a good idea to use both names, OOo could end up being the Windows version and LO the Linux and other OS version. Or something like that. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
adept techlists - kazar wrote: Also, Andy, please have a look at internationalizing the email one gets when one registers. It does not arrive in one's chosen language and, for me anyhow, I cannot read those instructions (in Czech or Polish or something, no insult intended to anyone's native language, most languages look the same to an uneducated American like me :-) ) thanks kazar I would recommend that you send a message to the owner of the forum. At the top each page is a link that can be used to PM him. It was setup to request a moderator position. Andy -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
adept techlists - kazar wrote: On 4/24/11 2:42 PM, Andy Brown wrote: What do you mean by "Uncategorized"? If you feel there is something that will make the forum better I am sure that it can be looked at by the management. good to hear. If you look at http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ you will see topic categories. That is what I mean. Did you not see the same list for Writer, Calc, &etc on the LibreOffice forum? See http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5215855/forum.png for a short list from there. Andy -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
I got the instruction in Polish, that is funny, because my wife is polish! ;-) Cheers! On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 20:55, adept techlists - kazar wrote: > Also, Andy, please have a look at internationalizing the email one gets > when one registers. It does not arrive in one's chosen language and, for me > anyhow, I cannot read those instructions (in Czech or Polish or something, > no insult intended to anyone's native language, most languages look the same > to an uneducated American like me :-) ) > > thanks > > kazar > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
Also, Andy, please have a look at internationalizing the email one gets when one registers. It does not arrive in one's chosen language and, for me anyhow, I cannot read those instructions (in Czech or Polish or something, no insult intended to anyone's native language, most languages look the same to an uneducated American like me :-) ) thanks kazar -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 4/24/11 2:42 PM, Andy Brown wrote: What do you mean by "Uncategorized"? If you feel there is something that will make the forum better I am sure that it can be looked at by the management. good to hear. If you look at http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ you will see topic categories. That is what I mean. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
adept techlists - kazar wrote: On 4/24/11 12:04 PM, Andy Brown wrote: The only thing I have to say is that a new forum is not needed. There are two long time forums already supporting LibO and a new LibO forum. The only thing that is needed/wanted is that the TDF/LibO support pages have links to them. Ah, OK, i just searched for "libreoffice forum" and found http://en.libreofficeforum.org/. Uncategorized, and I believe forums with categories are better learning tools. Plus, even though I started from the "en." subdomain and selected English as my language on the home page, when I registered a new account the email instructions were: Witam kazaragain, What do you mean by "Uncategorized"? If you feel there is something that will make the forum better I am sure that it can be looked at by the management. Andy -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 4/24/11 12:04 PM, Andy Brown wrote: adept techlists - kazar wrote: Sure, leave the mailman lists up (who knows in how many places the instructions for subscribing have been posted) but also please start official TDF web-based support forums. I bet you'd find LibreOffice users who would volunteer to moderate one or two topic categories. (I raise my hand.) The only thing I have to say is that a new forum is not needed. There are two long time forums already supporting LibO and a new LibO forum. The only thing that is needed/wanted is that the TDF/LibO support pages have links to them. Ah, OK, i just searched for "libreoffice forum" and found http://en.libreofficeforum.org/. Uncategorized, and I believe forums with categories are better learning tools. Plus, even though I started from the "en." subdomain and selected English as my language on the home page, when I registered a new account the email instructions were: Witam kazaragain, Dziękujemy za rejestrację na LibreOfficeForum.org Twoja nazwa użytkownika: kazaragain Resetowanie hasła: http://libreofficeforum.org/user/password Jeżeli otrzymałeś ten e-mail przez pomyłkę, to znaczy, że ktoś próbował zarejestrować na Twój e-mail konto. Proszę w takim przypadku nie odpowiadać na e-mail - konta nie potwierdzone zostaną usunięte LibreOfficeForum.org Z pozdrowieniami, Zespół LibreOfficeForum.org http://en.libreofficeforum.org And I found another couple of similarly completely uncategorized forums. The forums at http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ look much more promising, but are not these two products expected to diverge more and more? In my understanding LibreOffice is a new project that _started_ with OOo code but will be building separately. Or will changes made to LibreOffice be merged back into OOo? Obviously I am not a developer so I do not understand how these "branches" or "forks" work. I'm not asking to be educated here, that would be OT. Just saying that if LibreOffice is indeed a new product that will become less and less like OOo it ought to have its own "official" nice forum. Meanwhile sure, the link to http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ should be added prominently on the help page of the libreoffice site. Since I am not any kind of expert or web developer and have little understanding of how OS projects work, it would be silly for me to ask to be on the web team just to make one edit. I hope someone more appropriate for web team membership does that soon. thanks, kazar -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
adept techlists - kazar wrote: Sure, leave the mailman lists up (who knows in how many places the instructions for subscribing have been posted) but also please start official TDF web-based support forums. I bet you'd find LibreOffice users who would volunteer to moderate one or two topic categories. (I raise my hand.) The only thing I have to say is that a new forum is not needed. There are two long time forums already supporting LibO and a new LibO forum. The only thing that is needed/wanted is that the TDF/LibO support pages have links to them. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 4/17/11 8:30 AM, RGB ES wrote: People like forums. People NEED forums. So, why every time the forum issue is considered here it falls on nothing? I just want to write in as a consultant and end-user, to point out several of the major benefits of forums over mailing lists that I have not noticed yet in this discussion: mainly --visibility, persistence and searchability I am actually a fan of the mailman software used to run this list and have hosted several email lists using mailman (and, before that, majordomo). However, i find that whereas email lists are better for discussions like this one, web forums make more sense for official and/or community support. For software I use that has web -based support forums, I almost always can find that the question I have has already been asked and answered by someone else, or that the problem I wish to report has already been supported. If you've ever tried searching in mailman archives to see if your question has already been posted & answered, it is an exercise in total frustration. Another thing: once I'm on a web forum, if I have time I start poking through the categories to pick out topics of interest and i learn so much about the forum. And another thing: effectively moderated forums will have a FAQ section so that rather than the regular participants having to answer the same questions over and over they can simply point to the FAQ. For those who complain of the bandwidth and time entailed in loading web pages: There is this little thing called RSS, it's been around for a couple of years ;-) ... I subscribe to the RSS feed for web forums and downloading the subjects and summary of all the posts into a newsreader takes LESS bandwidth and time than receiving the same number of complete emails. Just click on the item of interest in your newsreader and you are taken *directly* to the web page with the post. Click the "subscribe to this discussion" box on that page, if you would like, and receive any further replies via email. Sure, leave the mailman lists up (who knows in how many places the instructions for subscribing have been posted) but also please start official TDF web-based support forums. I bet you'd find LibreOffice users who would volunteer to moderate one or two topic categories. (I raise my hand.) kazar -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 04/17/2011 08:00 AM, RGB ES wrote: We can discuss up to the end of the time if forums are better or worse than mailing lists. We can discuss about why people do not use "better communication methods" (whichever those methods are) or do not RTFM. We can discuss everything, but there is a clear fact that cannot be denied: English community forums have near 40500 registered users Spanish community forums have near 5000 registered users French community forums have near 17100 registered users ... (http://user.services.openoffice.org/) People like forums. People NEED forums. So, why every time the forum issue is considered here it falls on nothing? I think we need to consider to OFFICIALLY cooperate with the community forums, specially now that Oracle is washing their hands from OOo. And please, do not start arguing as before that mailing lists are better than forums: that's completely irrelevant. Just my 2¢ Cheers Ricardo It will make a decent forum LibreOffice Official or not? I think they are bypassing the main theme My opinion is that all resources should remain within the Project LibreOffice TDF and as we have been doing. And also very important to give many options as users prefer to review and intractuar with the information that is presented. A person who likes lists that you use and like the forums that use too. Ice cream is very tasty but we have a variety to not get bored of it. -- Daniel Gonzalez Comunidad LibreOffice en Español Back69 Venezuela -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On 17/04/2011 16:06, RGB ES wrote: 2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier: Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. By telling people "use existing resources" YOU are splitting the community: the official community that talks through the the official mailing lists and the "other community" that use "external channels". I don't understand your purpose. We are cooperating with the forum, at least the French community is cooperating with the French forum. Exchange are reported through the LibO mailing list when a bug is found, links from the forum are posted to the LibO users mailing list when a solution is proposed, call for QA is made on the forum when the LibO project needs it. What prevent the Spanish community to interact with the forum? I also don't understand what the term OFFICIAL COOPERATION means, this is one community using LibreOffice or OpenOffice.org, what do you need for official to be underlined here? Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:06 AM, RGB ES wrote: > 2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier : >> Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do >> you want *yet another* forum. >> > Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to > split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to > let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. > Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. > By telling people "use existing resources" YOU are splitting the > community: the official community that talks through the the official > mailing lists and the "other community" that use "external channels". > > -- What does "official cooperation" mean? How does a website gain official recognition? Who monitors to see if it's a forum or a knockoff? Why not just say on the official LibreOffice websites that forums can be found by searching for "LibreOffice forum"? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier : > Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do > you want *yet another* forum. > Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem. Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed. By telling people "use existing resources" YOU are splitting the community: the official community that talks through the the official mailing lists and the "other community" that use "external channels". -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, RGB ES wrote: > We can discuss up to the end of the time if forums are better or worse > than mailing lists. We can discuss about why people do not use "better > communication methods" (whichever those methods are) or do not RTFM. > > We can discuss everything, but there is a clear fact that cannot be denied: > > English community forums have near 40500 registered users > Spanish community forums have near 5000 registered users > French community forums have near 17100 registered users Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do you want *yet another* forum. Those users above will not all register to an additional forum - why should they? Why should we split the knowledge of those on purpose? And the one on services.openoffice.org is not the only one either. There are already enough forum solutions. If you want a dedicated "LibreOffice" one, ask the maintainers of that forum to open a "LibreOffice" category or something (but I don't think this is necessary, as functionality is not that much different yet) ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Forums... again
We can discuss up to the end of the time if forums are better or worse than mailing lists. We can discuss about why people do not use "better communication methods" (whichever those methods are) or do not RTFM. We can discuss everything, but there is a clear fact that cannot be denied: English community forums have near 40500 registered users Spanish community forums have near 5000 registered users French community forums have near 17100 registered users ... (http://user.services.openoffice.org/) People like forums. People NEED forums. So, why every time the forum issue is considered here it falls on nothing? I think we need to consider to OFFICIALLY cooperate with the community forums, specially now that Oracle is washing their hands from OOo. And please, do not start arguing as before that mailing lists are better than forums: that's completely irrelevant. Just my 2¢ Cheers Ricardo -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
