Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Hi Johannes, * just one remark about your last paragraph: Johannes A. Bodwing schrieb: [...] Who from TDF/LO has the overview of the most effiency schedule for major steps of the TDF/LO-project? I don't think that such a task can be done by one single person - it has been done as a common task by different teams. Development team knows (more or less) about the skills of the developers working on the LibO source. But as they are volunteers, their areas of interest have to been taken into account: Nobody can be forced by anybody else to work on a specific task. They can be convinced of course (by defining common goals - or paying an adequate amount of money...). Marketing works on public relations and will be the main area for defining our community goals and target groups - based on the "Next Decade Manifesto" [http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto]. Many other teams will have to be taken into account, so there will have to be a group of active community members from all of these teams, sharing their knowledge based on the expertize in their teams with each other and the community. At the moment such a group is the Steering Committee, after the first voting the Board of Directors (BoD) IMHO. When discussion in the different teams led to conclusions, they should be finalized on the steering-discuss list, where all the community members interested in this topic - and I hope it is important to every community member - can follow the discussion. Is there someone who says what has to come next to build the project in its best way with the personal it has at the moment? For tasks not to be covered inside the dedicated teams this should be the SC - led by the experts from the different areas. And could it be helpful to have such a schedule on the webiste of TDF and all national groups, with a rough timetable and permanently refreshed? Of course! Such a schedule should be created by every team, there are already some "Work-item" pages on the wiki - from the marketing team for example: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items It might be very helpful for the progress we want to do as a whole, if there would be some community members collecting the tasks and their planned timeframes from the different schedules to a central document. The TDF work-item wiki page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Work_Items already provides something similar. I just don't know, if it might be possible to keep such a document readable and up-to-date for more than a few months... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Hi Jeremy and others, ... "Johannes A. Bodwing" wrote: If we change names, we should do it on the background of the real functions of a modern Office-Suite. For that eventually we have to think deeply about a complete new naming-background for the future LO. On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:24:06 +0100 RGB ES wrote: Maybe for 4.0... but must be planned with great precision and the old version must be supported for some time too. +1 Names for the moduls of LO are not yet the thing. Like some others already said: First their is the final release of LO 3.3 (in januaray 2011 I think). In my opinion after this release we have to clear the goals of TDF and LO and what kind of Office-Suite LO should be in or for the future. Eventually even what other kind of software TDF will make. After that we have a better basis to discuss or not about the best names for LO-modules. That doesn't mean that we fall silent. Everyone can collect his/her ideas till the release of LO 3.3, and then - kick off for the best open Office Suite ever. This leads me to the question: Who from TDF/LO has the overview of the most effiency schedule for major steps of the TDF/LO-project? Is there someone who says what has to come next to build the project in its best way with the personal it has at the moment? And could it be helpful to have such a schedule on the webiste of TDF and all national groups, with a rough timetable and permanently refreshed? Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:25:30 +0100 "Johannes A. Bodwing" wrote: > > If we change names, we should do it on the background of the real > functions of a modern Office-Suite. For that eventually we have to > think deeply about a complete new naming-background for the future LO. > On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:24:06 +0100 RGB ES wrote: > > Maybe for 4.0... but must be planned with great precision and the old > version must be supported for some time too. > +1 -- jdc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 20.12.2010 10:32, schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt: > LibreOffice is the brand which > will be known and names of the applications should help to find the > application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the > names of the applications like Google Docs does. I don't care whenever the names get changed or not. That's the reason why I didn't join the discussion about it. If I'm able to recognize what a component does by looking at it's name I'm fine. The reason I join the discussion now is that I disagree about translating the names of the components. I'm German and I like localized help and menus, but dislike translated application names and technical words. I'm on Windows. It would be disturbing if it would be called Fenster. This message is send with Thunderbird (Donnervogel)(Firefox/Feuerfuchs and so on) I agree that users should be able to get help in their native language and that applications should be localized, but translating the actual name goes to far IMHO. Best regards, bastik 20 Dec 2010, 18:42 (+0100) - -- Impurities make things work and sometimes unique. Go Libre! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Gnu Privacy Tools Comment: Download at http://www.gnupt.de Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJND5V8AAoJEJkCkhwrlE2uanEH/2mvGBnSOG/NpfYMhN7g01uI rHVp3vnY43+4H7rI1nRMurW+4FXlfBnrn0t597ulIzpFCEuJliSS+3QbdUJptA/T Cmbj9Z0rCwNfII6jL2W8DbfOfla05mDcEhAmZwVAG2qLRFGkU7ueAX3GCeJNdzrv puqDodpHK3tVispU2Ogslmh92/je8jHbrGxS5aK1Te67xXH2oweIQrGW5hXN8mg2 igCeuavfXfgUWw7d3PPKwuDpv2L+9COHKnqO/z3NQjaHBdh+FupRQGvg/80GzhI1 z8bIDjkJCx/Jv7RH69id0MWsP7uvqe5cFGK6qnesc0gDwrikuhiJh1veLyWt+FE= =F49n -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Samuel Mehrbrodt wrote: I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which will be known and names of the applications should help to find the application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the names of the applications like Google Docs does. So we could have: Text Table Presentation Drawing Formula People have complained that if the names of modules were changed then extensions couldn't find them and work with them, and it suddenly occured to me that these extensions may not look for the modules name in the same place that the user sees it when opening the program. correct me if I am wrong in this. but if I am not, it would be possible to change the name where the user sees it, while leaving it alone where the extensions refer to it.That way we could do rebranding without messing up the functionality of anything. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Hello, ... for Spreadsheed / Presentation / Drawing / Formula. ... So we could have: Text Table Presentation Drawing Formula I think we discuss on the basis of computer-stoneage. For example Writer/Word/Text e.g., this began decades ago with only text and a handful of fonts and simple layout inside an 1 MB RAM (or less). Nowadays Writer/Text is more than pages with words. With LO it is possible to create complex layout with different fonts, stiles, pictures, graphic and charts to get books with hundreds of pages in professional styling. Writer/Text/Word are phrases from the past. In the case of Writer/Text we continue StarWriter from 1985 with a modern LO. But this phrases do not reflect the present status of a modern Office-Suite like LO. If we change names, we should do it on the background of the real functions of a modern Office-Suite. For that eventually we have to think deeply about a complete new naming-background for the future LO. Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On 12/20/2010 6:13 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote: On 20/12/2010 7:03 PM, "Samuel Mehrbrodt" wrote: I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which will be known and names of the applications should help to find the application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the names of the applications like Google Docs does. So we could have: Text Table Presentation Drawing Formula I like the idea but you have used a mix of nouns and adjectives. I also think that calc does far more than 'tables', spreadsheet would be more descriptive if you wanted to use nouns. All of these can be nouns, though it would more often be Document than Text (but all of the ODF objects are referred to as documents, so that won't work here). But I agree that Spreadsheet would be a better choice. With the original set here, people trying to create a spreadsheet would most likely try Formula. We also need Base or Database. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
+1 for Spreadsheed / Presentation / Drawing / Formula. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Samuel Mehrbrodt < s.mehrbr...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Spreadsheet is ok for me as long as it gets translated. Because here > in Germany almost nobody would know what Spreadsheet means. > Where did I use adjectives? I think Drawing is also a noun, but maybe > you have a better idea. > > 2010/12/20 Michael Wheatland : > > On 20/12/2010 7:03 PM, "Samuel Mehrbrodt" > > wrote: > >> > >> I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they > >> describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which > >> will be known and names of the applications should help to find the > >> application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the > >> names of the applications like Google Docs does. > >> So we could have: > >> Text > >> Table > >> Presentation > >> Drawing > >> Formula > > > > I like the idea but you have used a mix of nouns and adjectives. I also > > think that calc does far more than 'tables', spreadsheet would be more > > descriptive if you wanted to use nouns. > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Spreadsheet is ok for me as long as it gets translated. Because here in Germany almost nobody would know what Spreadsheet means. Where did I use adjectives? I think Drawing is also a noun, but maybe you have a better idea. 2010/12/20 Michael Wheatland : > On 20/12/2010 7:03 PM, "Samuel Mehrbrodt" > wrote: >> >> I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they >> describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which >> will be known and names of the applications should help to find the >> application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the >> names of the applications like Google Docs does. >> So we could have: >> Text >> Table >> Presentation >> Drawing >> Formula > > I like the idea but you have used a mix of nouns and adjectives. I also > think that calc does far more than 'tables', spreadsheet would be more > descriptive if you wanted to use nouns. > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On 20/12/2010 7:03 PM, "Samuel Mehrbrodt" wrote: > > I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they > describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which > will be known and names of the applications should help to find the > application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the > names of the applications like Google Docs does. > So we could have: > Text > Table > Presentation > Drawing > Formula I like the idea but you have used a mix of nouns and adjectives. I also think that calc does far more than 'tables', spreadsheet would be more descriptive if you wanted to use nouns. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
I think it's good to change the names of the Applications so that they describe what each application does. LibreOffice is the brand which will be known and names of the applications should help to find the application you want to use. I would also suggest to translate the names of the applications like Google Docs does. So we could have: Text Table Presentation Drawing Formula and the German translation for example would be: Text Tabelle Präsentation Zeichnung Formel How about this? Should we better use plural forms? Samuel M. 2010/12/15 Robert Derman : > Charles Marcus wrote: >> >> On 2010-12-14 9:38 AM, Marc Paré wrote: >> >>> >>> The thread is discussing the possibility of name changes to some of >>> the modules: Writer, Impress, Calc, Draw, Base, Math. >>> >>> I don't think they are suggesting a name change for LibreOffice in >>> this case. >>> >> >> Oh, ok, good... sorry for how harsh it sounded too, I just didn't want >> to see another long thread startup about the project name... ;) >> > > Some one suggested changing Writer to Write, I like that. I would agree > that Impress is a very poor name for the presentation module, I would > suggest Present. It is far more to the point of what it actually is for. I > Particularly think Calc is bad because it is too easy to confuse with Math. > I think Spread would be better, or even Spreadsheet. Why be obtuse. I > like Draw and Base, they tell precisely what these modules actually are, I > think Math would be better called Formula, it is much more accurately to the > point. It has been mentioned that LO is NOT OOo, and will be less and > less so as time goes on, it would be a good idea to change these names by > the second actual release (non beta) at the latest to help distinguish the > two. > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Charles Marcus wrote: On 2010-12-14 9:38 AM, Marc Paré wrote: The thread is discussing the possibility of name changes to some of the modules: Writer, Impress, Calc, Draw, Base, Math. I don't think they are suggesting a name change for LibreOffice in this case. Oh, ok, good... sorry for how harsh it sounded too, I just didn't want to see another long thread startup about the project name... ;) Some one suggested changing Writer to Write, I like that. I would agree that Impress is a very poor name for the presentation module, I would suggest Present. It is far more to the point of what it actually is for. I Particularly think Calc is bad because it is too easy to confuse with Math. I think Spread would be better, or even Spreadsheet. Why be obtuse. I like Draw and Base, they tell precisely what these modules actually are, I think Math would be better called Formula, it is much more accurately to the point.It has been mentioned that LO is NOT OOo, and will be less and less so as time goes on, it would be a good idea to change these names by the second actual release (non beta) at the latest to help distinguish the two. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Maybe this discussion is a bit premature, but nevertheless... Þann þri 7.des 2010 19:32, skrifaði Marc Paré: > Le 2010-12-07 13:12, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : >> Hi, >> >> At 18:50 7/12/2010, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: >>> Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: >>> > [...] but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe (LWRITER.EXEm ...) >>> >>> But if that might cause any trouble (for example Extensions >>> referencing to current names of .exe files) I would leave all as it is. >> >> I agree. I am involved in the development of three OpenOffice.org >> extensions: odt2daisy, odt2braille and a third one that will be released >> in early 2011. odt2daisy and odt2braille (both available on SourceForge) >> currently work with LibreOffice and I would like to preserve >> compatibility. >> >> With regard to the original question: are there any surveys or data that >> confirm that the names for Writer, Calc and Impress need to be improved? >> (I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for Impress; I don't see >> a problem for the others.) >> >> Best regards, >> >> Christophe >> >> > > I don't believe that any of this has been discussed as the SC and most > communities see the move from OpenOffice to LibreOffice as a natural > outcome of moving to a "foundation" organisation. We had originally > wanted to have the use of the "OpenOffice" name. > > I can tell you from personal experience, over many years, with using > OpenOffice in the classroom and with students at home, "Writer" and > "Calc" are easily recognisable; "Impress" is not. > > We should perhaps consider that Oracle has decided to go on with > OpenOffice and is using the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names. Will > people associate these names more with OpenOffice? Do these names > conjure up the image of OOo? I would suspect yes. I can already imagine > that people will be asking me if I am talking about OpenOffice or > LibreOffice (when I use the module names)? > > We could also see this as somewhat of a standoff, do we own the moral or > even legal rights to use the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names or > does OpenOffice? > > If we are to change, the names should be very descriptive and concise. > And, as Christophe points out, the compatibility of extensions will have > to be considered. > > Maybe now is not the time to change names? We could better plan for a > later release if we do? > > Just my thoughts. > > Marc Why having proper names for for those different "phases/actions" in an office suite ? I've been instructing non-tech people during adoption of FOSS in several institutions and one private company; I'd say there's a minority who distinguish between an OS and an office suite (does not matter whether it's Win/MSO or *buntu/OOo). Seriously. Distinguishing between various apps in an office suite is sometimes quite approximate, and the usage of the apps can be surprising at times. Young students tend to do all their documents in PowerPoint/Impress and are astonished about their teacher fuzzing about this Word/Writer thing. I've seen lengthy documents and CV's done in Excel/Calc; not surprisingly by accounting/finance people ;-) In my OOo/LibO translation work I've sometimes been thinking about replacing the proper names Writer/Calc/Impress etc. for the more generic text/spreadsheet/presentation. To be feasible there are some other modifications necessary. But I was thinking that if/when changing names of individual components in LibreOffice, maybe it should be according to a trend in development of the suite, where the whole concept of a document would be addressed. Look at DTP-suites; various sources of input onto a document layout (text frames, image frames, render frames, etc), most of them either editable inline or with external apps. An office document is mostly constructed similarly (frames) - when editing inline one does not have to know which app is evoked (the menus/toolbars change). Losing the names would not be that dramatic, one only enters spreadsheet mode/phase when editing að table/spreadsheet in the document, similar for word processing in text frames. The important thing would be to choose rendering output, and that would be aided by having various previews (page/print/presentation screen/web etc). Just to say it; personally I'd hate such kind of fuzzy-one-for-all-thinking for you-UI, I prefer apps with well defined roles. But I can state that not everybody does - and that there's some evolution going on how people percieve (office) documents. Just thoughts, Sveinn í Felli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On 2010-12-14 9:38 AM, Marc Paré wrote: > The thread is discussing the possibility of name changes to some of > the modules: Writer, Impress, Calc, Draw, Base, Math. > > I don't think they are suggesting a name change for LibreOffice in > this case. Oh, ok, good... sorry for how harsh it sounded too, I just didn't want to see another long thread startup about the project name... ;) -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Le 2010-12-14 08:51, Charles Marcus a écrit : On 2010-12-13 5:35 PM, Samuel Mehrbrodt wrote: Now, will there be an official statement from the LibreOffice leaders about a name change? Please stop this - it has been decided, there will be no name change with the sole exception possibly being that *if* Oracle decided to transfer the OOo name/trademarks etc to TDF, then the name might revert to OOo - but other than that, for better or worse, the name is decided... Hi Charles: The thread is discussing the possibility of name changes to some of the modules: Writer, Impress, Calc, Draw, Base, Math. I don't think they are suggesting a name change for LibreOffice in this case. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 21:23 +0100 schrieb Mirek M.: > 2010/12/7 Marc Paré > > > Le 2010-12-07 13:12, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : > > > > Hi, > >> > >> At 18:50 7/12/2010, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: > >> > >>> Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: > >>> > [...] but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe (LWRITER.EXEm ...) > >>> > >>> But if that might cause any trouble (for example Extensions > >>> referencing to current names of .exe files) I would leave all as it is. > >>> > >> > >> I agree. I am involved in the development of three OpenOffice.org > >> extensions: odt2daisy, odt2braille and a third one that will be released > >> in early 2011. odt2daisy and odt2braille (both available on SourceForge) > >> currently work with LibreOffice and I would like to preserve > >> compatibility. > >> > >> With regard to the original question: are there any surveys or data that > >> confirm that the names for Writer, Calc and Impress need to be improved? > >> (I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for Impress; I don't see > >> a problem for the others.) > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Christophe > >> > >> > >> > > I don't believe that any of this has been discussed as the SC and most > > communities see the move from OpenOffice to LibreOffice as a natural outcome > > of moving to a "foundation" organisation. We had originally wanted to have > > the use of the "OpenOffice" name. > > > > I can tell you from personal experience, over many years, with using > > OpenOffice in the classroom and with students at home, "Writer" and "Calc" > > are easily recognisable; "Impress" is not. > > > > We should perhaps consider that Oracle has decided to go on with OpenOffice > > and is using the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names. Will people associate > > these names more with OpenOffice? Do these names conjure up the image of > > OOo? I would suspect yes. I can already imagine that people will be asking > > me if I am talking about OpenOffice or LibreOffice (when I use the module > > names)? > > > > We could also see this as somewhat of a standoff, do we own the moral or > > even legal rights to use the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names or does > > OpenOffice? > > > > If we are to change, the names should be very descriptive and concise. And, > > as Christophe points out, the compatibility of extensions will have to be > > considered. > > > > Maybe now is not the time to change names? We could better plan for a later > > release if we do? > > > > I'd definitely wait a while before changing names. I mean, right now, > LibreOffice is basically the same piece of software as OpenOffice.org, just > with a few patches and different branding. Even the version numbers are the > same. > If LibreOffice is serious about really separating from the OOo codebase and > going its own way, then it's inevitable that, in the future, extensions for > one won't necessarily work with the other. > > When the two are different enough, that'll be the time for changing > application names. I am not very experienced with these things, but I think that it would be better to have all name changes now than "sometime in the future". LO is a Fork and I think it can have its own names. I think from a user's view it is confusing that it is no more OpenOffice, but LibreOffice they use. Then maybe they get used to that name after some time and then there is another name change, even of the applications they use every day. So I think a name change should be done now and not after some releases. Maybe we can keep the name "Writer", but I would change Impress and Calc. When I used OpenOffice first, I was always confused by Calc and Formula, I just wanted Excel. I always started Formula, because Calc sounded like Calculator and that's not a spreadsheet (I am German btw). Samuel M. > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > > > > > -- > > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less? > A: http://five.sentenc.es > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
On 12/07/2010 02:23 PM, Mirek M. wrote: 2010/12/7 Marc Paré Le 2010-12-07 13:12, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : Hi, At 18:50 7/12/2010, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: [...] but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe (LWRITER.EXEm ...) But if that might cause any trouble (for example Extensions referencing to current names of .exe files) I would leave all as it is. I agree. I am involved in the development of three OpenOffice.org extensions: odt2daisy, odt2braille and a third one that will be released in early 2011. odt2daisy and odt2braille (both available on SourceForge) currently work with LibreOffice and I would like to preserve compatibility. With regard to the original question: are there any surveys or data that confirm that the names for Writer, Calc and Impress need to be improved? (I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for Impress; I don't see a problem for the others.) Best regards, Christophe I don't believe that any of this has been discussed as the SC and most communities see the move from OpenOffice to LibreOffice as a natural outcome of moving to a "foundation" organisation. We had originally wanted to have the use of the "OpenOffice" name. I can tell you from personal experience, over many years, with using OpenOffice in the classroom and with students at home, "Writer" and "Calc" are easily recognisable; "Impress" is not. We should perhaps consider that Oracle has decided to go on with OpenOffice and is using the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names. Will people associate these names more with OpenOffice? Do these names conjure up the image of OOo? I would suspect yes. I can already imagine that people will be asking me if I am talking about OpenOffice or LibreOffice (when I use the module names)? We could also see this as somewhat of a standoff, do we own the moral or even legal rights to use the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names or does OpenOffice? If we are to change, the names should be very descriptive and concise. And, as Christophe points out, the compatibility of extensions will have to be considered. Maybe now is not the time to change names? We could better plan for a later release if we do? I'd definitely wait a while before changing names. I mean, right now, LibreOffice is basically the same piece of software as OpenOffice.org, just with a few patches and different branding. Even the version numbers are the same. If LibreOffice is serious about really separating from the OOo codebase and going its own way, then it's inevitable that, in the future, extensions for one won't necessarily work with the other. When the two are different enough, that'll be the time for changing application names. Just my thoughts. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** A name change would be beneficial for not only the point of view of differentiation and recognisability but also from a marketing and branding point of view. If a name change occurs purely subjective names should be avoided (such as Flow for the word app), but purely descriptive names could be equally bad. On the point of extension compatibility, I am no programmer but I would think that simlinks could be created that would provide compatibility. Or the user side of things could be changed and leave the executables names the same as current. $0.02 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
2010/12/7 Marc Paré > Le 2010-12-07 13:12, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : > > Hi, >> >> At 18:50 7/12/2010, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: >> >>> Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: >>> > [...] but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe (LWRITER.EXEm ...) >>> >>> But if that might cause any trouble (for example Extensions >>> referencing to current names of .exe files) I would leave all as it is. >>> >> >> I agree. I am involved in the development of three OpenOffice.org >> extensions: odt2daisy, odt2braille and a third one that will be released >> in early 2011. odt2daisy and odt2braille (both available on SourceForge) >> currently work with LibreOffice and I would like to preserve >> compatibility. >> >> With regard to the original question: are there any surveys or data that >> confirm that the names for Writer, Calc and Impress need to be improved? >> (I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for Impress; I don't see >> a problem for the others.) >> >> Best regards, >> >> Christophe >> >> >> > I don't believe that any of this has been discussed as the SC and most > communities see the move from OpenOffice to LibreOffice as a natural outcome > of moving to a "foundation" organisation. We had originally wanted to have > the use of the "OpenOffice" name. > > I can tell you from personal experience, over many years, with using > OpenOffice in the classroom and with students at home, "Writer" and "Calc" > are easily recognisable; "Impress" is not. > > We should perhaps consider that Oracle has decided to go on with OpenOffice > and is using the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names. Will people associate > these names more with OpenOffice? Do these names conjure up the image of > OOo? I would suspect yes. I can already imagine that people will be asking > me if I am talking about OpenOffice or LibreOffice (when I use the module > names)? > > We could also see this as somewhat of a standoff, do we own the moral or > even legal rights to use the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names or does > OpenOffice? > > If we are to change, the names should be very descriptive and concise. And, > as Christophe points out, the compatibility of extensions will have to be > considered. > > Maybe now is not the time to change names? We could better plan for a later > release if we do? > I'd definitely wait a while before changing names. I mean, right now, LibreOffice is basically the same piece of software as OpenOffice.org, just with a few patches and different branding. Even the version numbers are the same. If LibreOffice is serious about really separating from the OOo codebase and going its own way, then it's inevitable that, in the future, extensions for one won't necessarily work with the other. When the two are different enough, that'll be the time for changing application names. > > Just my thoughts. > > Marc > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Q: Why is this email five sentences or less? A: http://five.sentenc.es -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Le 2010-12-07 13:12, Christophe Strobbe a écrit : Hi, At 18:50 7/12/2010, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: > [...] but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe (LWRITER.EXEm ...) But if that might cause any trouble (for example Extensions referencing to current names of .exe files) I would leave all as it is. I agree. I am involved in the development of three OpenOffice.org extensions: odt2daisy, odt2braille and a third one that will be released in early 2011. odt2daisy and odt2braille (both available on SourceForge) currently work with LibreOffice and I would like to preserve compatibility. With regard to the original question: are there any surveys or data that confirm that the names for Writer, Calc and Impress need to be improved? (I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for Impress; I don't see a problem for the others.) Best regards, Christophe I don't believe that any of this has been discussed as the SC and most communities see the move from OpenOffice to LibreOffice as a natural outcome of moving to a "foundation" organisation. We had originally wanted to have the use of the "OpenOffice" name. I can tell you from personal experience, over many years, with using OpenOffice in the classroom and with students at home, "Writer" and "Calc" are easily recognisable; "Impress" is not. We should perhaps consider that Oracle has decided to go on with OpenOffice and is using the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names. Will people associate these names more with OpenOffice? Do these names conjure up the image of OOo? I would suspect yes. I can already imagine that people will be asking me if I am talking about OpenOffice or LibreOffice (when I use the module names)? We could also see this as somewhat of a standoff, do we own the moral or even legal rights to use the "Writer", "Calc" and "Impress" names or does OpenOffice? If we are to change, the names should be very descriptive and concise. And, as Christophe points out, the compatibility of extensions will have to be considered. Maybe now is not the time to change names? We could better plan for a later release if we do? Just my thoughts. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Name Change for LibreOffice Applications
Rainer Bielefeld wrote: > > Frank Esposito schrieb: >> I think the present names are good, but I could also see a need to >> differentiate from OO, > > +1 > +2 > I would leave the name-core, but switch from Sxxx.exe to Lxxx.exe > (LWRITER.EXEm ...) > > Regards > > Rainer > > +1 S replaces by L for the .exe names will be pretty good. Gérard -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Name-Change-for-LibreOffice-Applications-tp2034451p2034936.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
