Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Luis E Vásquez r]

Medellin, dec 5 2010


Let me my dreams live!
They have always been for me the beginning of my accomplishments!

Best Regards
Luis E. Vásquez R.
OpenOffice.org Volunteer & Support
This message was sent from Medellin, Colombia
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2010/12/5 Gérard Fargeot 

> Best Regards
> >
> >
> > Luis E. Vásquez R.
> > OpenOffice.org Volunteer & Support
> > This message was sent from Medellin, Colombia
> > *10 Años usando exitosamente OpenOffice.org  libre, seguro y abierto
>

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Mirek M.]

Hi everyone,

Le 5 décembre 2010 19:03, Gérard Fargeot  a écrit
:

>
>
> Luis E Vásquez r wrote:
> >
> > Medellin, dic 5 2010
> >
> > Hi, guys & girls
> >
> > This is an interesting idea, all the software open source office suite in
> > a
> > super combined, but not to go against anyone, just to deliver a highly
> > productive tool that "... listen to essential information on the user .."
> > and
> > only this one dedicated to usability and performance.
> >
> > Learning from Mozilla, now the "... king of the browsers .." on the world
> > market.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> >
> > Luis E. Vásquez R.
> > OpenOffice.org Volunteer & Support
> > This message was sent from Medellin, Colombia
> > *10 Años usando exitosamente OpenOffice.org  libre, seguro y abierto
> >
> >
> > *  Facebook 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/12/5 Robert Derman 
> >
> >> Valter Mura wrote:
> >>
> >>> In data lunedì 15 novembre 2010 17:39:08, Mirek M. ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>   It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord,  Gnumeric, Ease,
> and
> >>
> >>
> > all
> >
> >
> >
> >> the other open-source editors worked together to set  standards.
> >>
> >>
> > It's called Open Document Format (ODF) and LibO/OOo support it.
> > It's managed by OASIS (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/)
> > and
> > has
> > been accepted
> > as an ISO standard as well.
> >
> >
>  I know that ODF is a standard. I meant set other standards, such as
>  keyboard shortcuts, default websites for content (fonts, templates,
>  clipart, ...), symbolism, command names, default fonts (as I
> explained,
>  if
>  all the open-source projects agreed on a triad of default fonts, these
>  fonts could easily gain the widespread usage as Times-Arial-Courier
>  have
>  enjoyed for years), etc.
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> This is an interesting point of view...
> >>>
> >>> So, what about joining efforts to create a bigger open source office
> >>> suite
> >>> project? I mean, LibO, KOffice, Abiword, Gnumeric et als all together
> >>> against closed and commercial products...
> >>>
> >>>
> >> This is an interesting idea, all the open source office software
> >> combining
> >> to go up against M$ Office.  Perhaps being big enough might just do the
> >> job,
> >> it certainly has for Mozilla, which has taken a BIG bite out of Internet
> >> Explorers market share.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> >> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> 
> >
> >> Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> >> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
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> > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
> >
> >
> >
> You are dreaming.
>
> In OOo we have so many versions as "distro", LibO is taking the same road.
> Each distro (each dev.) want his own built.
> We are not able to have 1 same product and you want an association with
> others suite...
>
> This is the big problem of open source.
>

I get that all the office suites probably won't cooperate on one single
office suite. These projects have different goals, different roots,
different audiences.
However, I do wish that all these projects cooperated more, and not just on
ODF, but on things that can benefit all of them, like discussing usability,
accessibility, and interoperability issues, like collaborating on the
aforementioned http://openfontlibrary.org/, http://www.openclipart.org/, or
a potential website for themes and templates, like working together on a
universal set of shortcuts (e.g. both "Ctrl-Shift-Z" and "Ctrl-Y" should
work as Undo in all the open-source office suites) or perhaps on a standard
set of ODF icons :).

>
> Gérard
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[RGB ES]

2010/12/5 Gérard Fargeot :
> You are dreaming.
>
> In OOo we have so many versions as "distro", LibO is taking the same road.
> Each distro (each dev.) want his own built.
> We are not able to have 1 same product and you want an association with
> others suite...
>
> This is the big problem of open source.
>
> Gérard

Not sure if this is a big problem or not... I tend to think
"proliferation" in FOSS world is a big *solution*: there are more
opportunities for new ideas... And all FOSS ideas can be reused.
But yes, IMO the idea to merge all those project it's only a dream...
or a nightmare: how will you convince the GTK programmers to learn Qt
(or vice-versa)? How will you manage to merge a text oriented app like
Writer with a frame oriented app like kword? How will you convince
users of abiword, that only need basic features, to load a full
featured (and resource hungry) word processor with all the features of
Writer and kword? How...?
There are lots of people that will never contribute to a GTK (or Qt)
project because they do not know how GTK (or Qt) works. And that's
perfectly fine: it is called freedom of choice.
If you replace a defacto proprietary monopoly with a defacto
opensource monopoly, you'll still have a defacto monopoly... and
that's not good.

Ricardo

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[tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Gérard Fargeot]

Luis E Vásquez r wrote:
> 
> Medellin, dic 5 2010
> 
> Hi, guys & girls
> 
> This is an interesting idea, all the software open source office suite in
> a
> super combined, but not to go against anyone, just to deliver a highly
> productive tool that "... listen to essential information on the user .."
> and
> only this one dedicated to usability and performance.
> 
> Learning from Mozilla, now the "... king of the browsers .." on the world
> market.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> 
> Luis E. Vásquez R.
> OpenOffice.org Volunteer & Support
> This message was sent from Medellin, Colombia
> *10 Años usando exitosamente OpenOffice.org  libre, seguro y abierto
> 
> 
> *  Facebook 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2010/12/5 Robert Derman 
> 
>> Valter Mura wrote:
>>
>>> In data lunedì 15 novembre 2010 17:39:08, Mirek M. ha scritto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
  It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord,  Gnumeric, Ease, and
>>
>>
> all
>
>
>
>> the other open-source editors worked together to set  standards.
>>
>>
> It's called Open Document Format (ODF) and LibO/OOo support it.
> It's managed by OASIS (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/)
> and
> has
> been accepted
> as an ISO standard as well.
>
>
 I know that ODF is a standard. I meant set other standards, such as
 keyboard shortcuts, default websites for content (fonts, templates,
 clipart, ...), symbolism, command names, default fonts (as I explained,
 if
 all the open-source projects agreed on a triad of default fonts, these
 fonts could easily gain the widespread usage as Times-Arial-Courier
 have
 enjoyed for years), etc.


>>>
>>> This is an interesting point of view...
>>>
>>> So, what about joining efforts to create a bigger open source office
>>> suite
>>> project? I mean, LibO, KOffice, Abiword, Gnumeric et als all together
>>> against closed and commercial products...
>>>
>>>
>> This is an interesting idea, all the open source office software
>> combining
>> to go up against M$ Office.  Perhaps being big enough might just do the
>> job,
>> it certainly has for Mozilla, which has taken a BIG bite out of Internet
>> Explorers market share.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
>> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
>> Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
>> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
>>
>>
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 
> 
You are dreaming.

In OOo we have so many versions as "distro", LibO is taking the same road.
Each distro (each dev.) want his own built.
We are not able to have 1 same product and you want an association with
others suite...

This is the big problem of open source.

Gérard
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[BRM]

- Original Message 

> From: Marc Paré 
> To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 4:12:50 AM
> Subject: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF
> 
> Le 2010-11-16 03:29, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> > That's interesting to  know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
> > 
> > What about  sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> > related programs?  It's the other part of the idea that not got
> > answered :)
> > 
> 
> The ODF formats are well documented. I don't know how much more support
> other FOSS related programs would need other than help with it implementation
> in  a particular program. I am sure that is a FOSS developer team asked for 
>help,
> someone would lend a hand.
> 

I think he means having a shared library that all the programs - LibO, KOffice, 
etc.
could all use for accessing ODF.

However, that is likely unrealistic as the different programs often use very 
different frameworks.
KOffice uses Qt, which is dramatically different from Gtk. I'm sure you could 
probably
integrate them if you'd like, but I see no reason why you would want to and 
having a single
library of that nature support multiple frameworks would be nuts and difficult 
to maintain.

Ben


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Povilas Kanapickas]

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 21:29:45 timofonic timofonic wrote:
> > That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> > related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
> > answered :)
>
> Please don't top post.
>
> Good heavens, have you been hiding under a rock for the last couple of
> years,
> ;)   that is the whole point of OASIS and ODF and ISO26300, It is already
> supported by multiple FOSS applications and MSOffice as well, though not
> well, yet.  The ISO format wars was long and bloody but we won.
> mostly, however the evolution continues.
>
> cheers
> GL
>
>
I think that the problem is not with the OASIS/ODF. FOSS applications have
to support MS specific formats also. In many cases most of the documents
these editors are used to deal with are in MS format. Even OO/LibO support
for these formats is not perfect, not to talk about other FOSS office
suites. So the idea of one shared library for MS specific format support is
definitely worth consideration.

Regards,
Povilas


> >
> > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> > > Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> > >> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
> > >> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
> > >> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
> > >> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
> > >> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
> > >> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
> > >>
> > >> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
> > >> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
> > >> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
> > >> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
> > >> non-interactive document converters too.
> > >>
> > >> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
> > >> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
> > >
> > > Hi Timofonic.
> > >
> > > But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which
> > > some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> > > refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity.
> > > Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between
> > > different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal
> > > representation.
> > >
> > > We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds
> like
> > > the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike
> > > N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes
> > > to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the
> > > Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest
> > > to do so.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to 
> > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
>
> --
> Graham Lauder,
> OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
>
> OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
>
> INGOTs Assessor Trainer
> (International Grades in Open Technologies)
> www.theingots.org
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: Email to 
> discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
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>
>

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Graham Lauder]

On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 21:29:45 timofonic timofonic wrote:
> That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
> 
> What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
> answered :)

Please don't top post. 

Good heavens, have you been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years,  
;)   that is the whole point of OASIS and ODF and ISO26300, It is already 
supported by multiple FOSS applications and MSOffice as well, though not 
well, yet.  The ISO format wars was long and bloody but we won. 
mostly, however the evolution continues.

cheers
GL


> 
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> > Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> >> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
> >> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
> >> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
> >> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
> >> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
> >> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
> >> 
> >> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
> >> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
> >> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
> >> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
> >> non-interactive document converters too.
> >> 
> >> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
> >> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
> > 
> > Hi Timofonic.
> > 
> > But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which
> > some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> > refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity.
> > Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between
> > different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal
> > representation.
> > 
> > We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like
> > the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike
> > N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes
> > to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the
> > Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest
> > to do so.
> > 
> > Marc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***

-- 
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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[tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-16 03:29, timofonic timofonic a écrit :

That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.

What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
answered :)



The ODF formats are well documented. I don't know how much more support 
other FOSS related programs would need other than help with it 
implementation in a particular program. I am sure that is a FOSS 
developer team asked for help, someone would lend a hand.


Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[timofonic timofonic]

That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.

What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
answered :)

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
>>
>> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
>> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
>> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
>> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
>> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
>> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
>>
>> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
>> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
>> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
>> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
>> non-interactive document converters too.
>>
>> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
>> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
>
> Hi Timofonic.
>
> But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which some
> of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity. Creating
> another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between different
> groups, not to mention financial backing and legal representation.
>
> We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like the
> ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike N.America
> where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes to make a
> difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the Americas as
> well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest to do so.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
>
>

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[tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :

I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
(or both), and improved between all friend projects.

Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
non-interactive document converters too.

A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.


Hi Timofonic.

But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which 
some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose 
refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity. 
Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between 
different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal 
representation.


We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like 
the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike 
N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes 
to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the 
Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest 
to do so.


Marc



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