Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
My company has worked on several county-level web site redesigns, and for a complete soup-to-nuts job, 705K does not strike me as too high, at all. You have to discover all of the maverick web sites that are going to be folded in to the new site, negotiate with 25 different departments over how their needs are going to be met by a standard architecture, design the CMS, create CMS data forms that can be used by those 25 different departments, etcetera and so forth. Not to mention all new graphics, training materials, content migration, application migration, and other things you never even thought of. - Olivia On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Patrick Neeman wrote: > I don't have the RFP response, but I >do< have the > deliverables/wireframes/content matrix, and the size of the site. > > One of the complexities of a site like this is that isn't not just > flat HTML -- there are a lot of dynamic forms. Think about it, 83k > pages. That's a lot of pages that have to be edited, massaged. That > doesn't include the cost of setting up the CMS, building the forms, > etc, and scaling for governance. > > After going through the process with the other city (they were > actually at 130k pages), this price is low. And even though the price > was off, if they are offshoring, the city is going to be rebidding > this out. I think I know one of the firms that bid on it (and list). > > > -- Olivia C. Williamson ocwilliam...@gmail.com 650-305-5950 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
I would totally do it for the spare 5k after the new system was defined and the old system inventory had been taken. Integration is a pain, I hear that The quick team scope could pull it off if the synergy was balanced; but, the likeliness is in the lower 10 percentile. I predict that project takes 3 years and goes through 3 teams with maybe one survivor from the original team that really has his or her heart in it seeing it through. 705kx3 On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Patrick Neeman wrote: > And the content migration... > > That's going to hurt, and cannot be done by that team. > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Posted from the new ixda.org > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
And the content migration... That's going to hurt, and cannot be done by that team. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Totally my point. The amount is not enough to get much done. I was using the 100k block as a point of reference. If you had to organize a team and the WBS you would have to find some cheap labor. I was thinking something like this with the 705 as a base: 3 developers - cross disciplined (front end, back end, scripting, programming) 1 visual designer - creative direction experience 1 production artist - focus on IA 1 interaction designer - platform specific 1 product manager - proven start to finish project portfolio Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
well, it's not 100k per worker -- it's 250k per worker at consulting rates (or splits depending on offshoring)... when considering that's literally three people for a year... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Say you give it a year to do and an annual salary of 100k per worker, that would give you 7 people to hire. What 7 roles would you employ? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
I don't have the RFP response, but I >do< have the deliverables/wireframes/content matrix, and the size of the site. One of the complexities of a site like this is that isn't not just flat HTML -- there are a lot of dynamic forms. Think about it, 83k pages. That's a lot of pages that have to be edited, massaged. That doesn't include the cost of setting up the CMS, building the forms, etc, and scaling for governance. After going through the process with the other city (they were actually at 130k pages), this price is low. And even though the price was off, if they are offshoring, the city is going to be rebidding this out. I think I know one of the firms that bid on it (and list). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Considering this is for a government contract I doubt it would be outsourced to other countries. Fed, state, or local projects almost always require U.S. citizenship or at minimum green card status (at least for the Federal level). Any people involved on that project also goes through a basic level of background/security check. As everyone else stated, depending on the size and complexity the price could have ballooned. On top of the normal user experience design tasks and personnel pricing, the final price could involve sending multiple personnel to the CMS's training program, the time involved for content migration into the new CMS, development licenses for the contracting company, etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Without knowing the extent of the website and what it involves it really could be the case that this $705 K minimum bid is real. But then again, I wonder if the amount of complexity involved would make this website any expensive as this one. I can understand that the complexity will be a hard thing to overcome while taking a decision if this is to be outsourced to any one of the Asian countries. I am sure here the price would be half of what is being asked for here. Maybe I am biased towards outsourcing, but when critical decisions are to be made then a design agency that is local would certainly win the race. I would be pleasantly surprised if this gets outsourced! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
The only 'reasonable' response to an RFP (IMO) is to chuck a huge number at it to see if they bite. Three reasons that folks put out an RFP: 1. They have no idea what they want and would like you to tell them for free. 2. They already know who will get the project, they just want qualifying prices. 3. They will buy cheap... as in the lowest bidder. I know there are a very few times when a RFP is done well. And, there are many times when an RFP is mandated... either by government regulation or by industry culture, but it is a terrible approach to design and counter productive towards quality and effective problem solution. On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Jared Spool wrote: > > On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Russelll Wilson wrote: > > If I read correctly it also says that they sent the RFP out to 228 >> companies and received 3 replies??? Does that indicate a >> "nightmare" project? >> > > Or it could mean that firms are getting smarter and not responding to RFPs. > > Jared > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Russelll Wilson wrote: If I read correctly it also says that they sent the RFP out to 228 companies and received 3 replies??? Does that indicate a "nightmare" project? Or it could mean that firms are getting smarter and not responding to RFPs. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
If I read correctly it also says that they sent the RFP out to 228 companies and received 3 replies??? Does that indicate a "nightmare" project? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Don't get me wrong - I've personally responded to and won a $6.5m project in the past (with a large retail store). That project was literally immense... and the price was easily justified. But I'm just not seeing what the complexity is in this project (and admit that I don't know enough of the details). @Patrick - do you have the RFP or more details that you can share? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:54 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: I know there are projects of this size, but from the description (and admittedly many details were left out), it just didn't seem like that large of a project. Website redesign projects are a gaseous substance. They expand to fill all available budget. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Well, that will play well in Austin, er, Peoria. :) I've quoted that exact project, and the price actually seems low. They must be outsourcing a good portion of that project. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
It's funny but the actual software development is outsourced in India. And by the looks of it the core is an open source platform . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
I know there are projects of this size, but from the description (and admittedly many details were left out), it just didn't seem like that large of a project. Russell Wilson Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Jared Spool wrote: > > On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: > > http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ > > This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price tag?) > > > These days, projects that are $750k to $2.5m are fairly common. > > I'm not shocked. > > Jared > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Jared, Next time you pass one of those up, send it my way. I have the bandwidth, but not the connections ;) Cheers, mate. -Damon Jared Spool wrote: > > On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: > >> http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ >> >> This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price >> tag?) > > These days, projects that are $750k to $2.5m are fairly common. > > I'm not shocked. > > Jared > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price tag?) These days, projects that are $750k to $2.5m are fairly common. I'm not shocked. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Yeah, and it's probably "shovel ready". Chris On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Patrick Neeman wrote: > I've been involved with one of these city projects (ironically, one > for a city about the same size, reach). You wouldn't believe what > you run into. > > - City government runs slow. Real slow. One project I worked on, I > did the IA in March of last year, and they are hoping to launch next > month. > - You have to scrub all the old content and re architect it. There's > NO WAY you can do IA for every page, so you do very high level > patterns, hoping the content fits. Or, does anyone want to do a site > inventory for thousands of pages? > - It's decision by committee. > - Training isn't easy because the employees aren't what you see in > the private sector (not saying they aren't as smart, their > priorities are different). > > The site 84,000 pages according to Google. They're going to go over > that bid. > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Posted from the new ixda.org > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
reminds me of the late 90's On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: Wow - see post/article here: http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price tag?) Russell Wilson Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
I've been involved with one of these city projects (ironically, one for a city about the same size, reach). You wouldn't believe what you run into. - City government runs slow. Real slow. One project I worked on, I did the IA in March of last year, and they are hoping to launch next month. - You have to scrub all the old content and re architect it. There's NO WAY you can do IA for every page, so you do very high level patterns, hoping the content fits. Or, does anyone want to do a site inventory for thousands of pages? - It's decision by committee. - Training isn't easy because the employees aren't what you see in the private sector (not saying they aren't as smart, their priorities are different). The site 84,000 pages according to Google. They're going to go over that bid. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40427 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Well, without knowing the scope of the project (which could be significant) and the amount of bureaucracy that is involved with dealing with a client like that, it may not be so surprising after all... 2009/3/24 Russell Wilson > Wow - see post/article here: > http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ > > This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price tag?) > > Russell Wilson > Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS > Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] $705k for redesigning a website???
Wow - see post/article here: http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/03/24/705k-for-redesigning-a-website/ This is for real (and maybe I'm the only one shocked about the price tag?) Russell Wilson Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
