Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
I'm still playing with the new release... Sketchflow looks pretty neat, but I need to spend more time with it before I can really judge. FWIW, I can comment on the the ease to create more fine-grained complex interactions through predefined or extensible behaviors. First, for those who don't know what behaviors are, they are basically little bits of code that you can attach to a UI element in order to give it certain interactive capabilities without actually having to write code for that specific UI element. For example, you could have a rectangle with a mouse drag attached behavior, such that you could then drag that rectangle around when you click and drag. The beauty of this is that after you have created the behavior, you can attach it to any UI element and maintain a healthy disconnect between your UI and logic layer. There are a ton of attached behaviors out there for use, if the ones in the asset library won't do it for you. And, of course, you can and should roll your own. I've been working with behaviors for a while now and I can say that, while it does require a bit of learning to start writing your own behaviors (though it's nothing that would overwhelm anyone on this list, I don't think) they are very easy to create after that initial learning curve. And, of course, they are extremely powerful and flexible. Most importantly, they are re-usable and easily extensible. On my teams, we've created behaviors for everything from simple input validation, to complex things like object manipulation adorners (the little widgets that let you resize objects, etc). So, I'm not one to be a big cheerleader unless it's for a video game ;), but after working with attached behaviors and following the MVVM pattern for a while, I gotta admit, I'm hooked on WPF. It's extremely awesome and I highly suggest everyone check it out, if they are doing Windows development. (And I've done some Silverlight experimentation as well, which is also pretty darn cool, tbh) As a side note, I'd like to mirror Michael's comments that Blend does have a habit of doing bizarre things to projects, at times. For example, a known bug is that Blend can insert a startup window for your app, even when you don't want to have one, leading to big blank white windows on startup. For this reason, I tend to be a bit protective of my XAML/code and do a lot of my work in VS 2008 as well as Blend. For anyone interested, I HIGHLY recommend getting ReSharper for doing WPF work - it will change your life. -AD -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Diego Moya Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:44 AM To: Fredrik Matheson Cc: disc...@ixda.org Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today 2009/7/13 Fredrik Matheson fredrik.mathe...@gmail.com: So, has anyone tried EP3 with Sketchflow? What's your experience so far? I've given EB3.0 a quick run. Everything below is the result of a very rough first impression based on few minutes of usage. On first opening, it looks very similar to several Rapid Application Development tools by Adobe to which I'm familiarized. In particular, the layout, tools and icons show a strong resemblance to the Flex IDE - down to the dark default color theme. Said that, the SketchFlow specific functions seem a very much welcome addition for prototyping work. The SketchFlow map is a usable state transition diagram, which is a godsend after trying to create state flows through Visio background pages. The SketchFlow animation panel looks at first like a highly visual comic-strip version of the Flash timeline, enhanced with an recorder that allows creating transition states by interactive demonstration. Overall it seems that it will be a really good way to create simple transition diagrams for navigating the main application or website structure, but I still remain wary about the ease to create more fine-grained complex interactions through predefined or extensible behaviors. Cheers Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
David, The simple truth is that you don't like Microsoft. I get it. But it's not a constructive point to make on this list. There is nothing preventing you from using this app on your chosen platform. You aren't being denied anything. You have your personal preferences -- sometimes they work in your favor, and sometimes they don't. It is your choice. However, your method for expressing dismay (however misleading the euphemism) is highly insulting to those who don't share your viewpoint. As someone who chooses different personal preferences, I would respectfully ask that in the future, you try to avoid airing this particular gripe at individuals who develop products. I'm sure a lot of people were involved in its development, and your comments dismiss and demean their hard work simply based on the name of their employer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Not sure how any of the Apple vs Microsoft banter has anything to do with the subject of this thread... Sketchflow. Just sayin! :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
So, has anyone tried EP3 with Sketchflow? What's your experience so far? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Folks, Please take this conversation offline. And please avoid such topics in the future. The moderation of this community relies to a large degree on the ability of members to police themselves, and to respond to one another with professional courtesy. Chris posted something relevant and genuinely exciting for the community. You will move us all forward if you respond to what Chris wrote. Thanks, JS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Fredrik Matheson fredrik.mathe...@gmail.com wrote: So, has anyone tried EP3 with Sketchflow? What's your experience so far? I'm sort of living in Blend 3 these days, styling a major WPF application. Haven't had a chance to use the Sketchflow portion yet since I'm working on production deliverables and am a bit behind schedule. The Blend 3 RC is considerably more stable than the preview release, which crashed frequently when I'd open a code-behind file, or sometimes even just selecting something from the Object menu. The Adobe Illustrator imports are 95% great in Blend 3, only missing on some color accuracy and alpha values. Can't round-trip vector graphics, but support for Illustrator imports has really helped me out for this project. Blend 3 continues to be alternately handy and frustrating as a vehicle for designers to spruce up WPF and Silverlight applications. The XAML editor is much improved by the addition of Intellisense, but there are still moments when the parser thinks your code is busted but it really isn't. Blend also seems to do strange stuff to solution and project files sometimes, to the point that I only create new resource dictionaries and make other project-level changes using Visual Studio now. At some point I'll write up my experience styling WPF components in a serious production application, but I'm too busy today. Let me just mention that it feels more like hacking than like design. Plus it's given me one of the low points of my technology career when I realized that to style an 80-line screen took more than 800 lines of nearly unreadable and probably dangerous XAML template code. Ok off now to dive into 3rd-party UI components with a debugger, see how they put them together, hook up their default styles, hack them until they look right, and try not to break something. Life as a designer in the 21st century... Michael Micheletti -- Michael Micheletti michael.michele...@gmail.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
2009/7/13 Fredrik Matheson fredrik.mathe...@gmail.com: So, has anyone tried EP3 with Sketchflow? What's your experience so far? I've given EB3.0 a quick run. Everything below is the result of a very rough first impression based on few minutes of usage. On first opening, it looks very similar to several Rapid Application Development tools by Adobe to which I'm familiarized. In particular, the layout, tools and icons show a strong resemblance to the Flex IDE - down to the dark default color theme. Said that, the SketchFlow specific functions seem a very much welcome addition for prototyping work. The SketchFlow map is a usable state transition diagram, which is a godsend after trying to create state flows through Visio background pages. The SketchFlow animation panel looks at first like a highly visual comic-strip version of the Flash timeline, enhanced with an recorder that allows creating transition states by interactive demonstration. Overall it seems that it will be a really good way to create simple transition diagrams for navigating the main application or website structure, but I still remain wary about the ease to create more fine-grained complex interactions through predefined or extensible behaviors. Cheers Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
On 10-Jul-09, at 10:44 PM, Joshua Muskovitz wrote: Wait, you're pissed at Microsoft? Why aren't you pissed at Apple? Honestly, what is your problem? Are you some sort of Apple-hating troll? You seem to swoop in to make an anti-Apple comment every chance you get. Please, give it up. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Wow, quite the overreaction. :-) Particularly since my alleged trolling every chance I get consisted of calling you elistist in a single thread. One might think you were less comfortable with the label than you claimed at the time. My point here is simply that you seem irrationally angry that Microsoft would release a product for developing applications using Microsoft technologies which only work on Microsoft operating systems. One might make the argument that you are a Microsoft-hating troll. You seem to swoop in and make anti-Microsoft comments at least as often. I would think that if you wanted a tool for developing Mac-oriented UIs, you'd want a tool written by Apple. On that note, are there *any* Microsoft applications that you do use? Perhaps you'd like to take this opportunity to extoll their particular virtues? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
On Jul 11, 2009, at 2:09 AM, David Drucker wrote: On 10-Jul-09, at 10:44 PM, Joshua Muskovitz wrote: Wait, you're pissed at Microsoft? Why aren't you pissed at Apple? Honestly, what is your problem? Are you some sort of Apple-hating troll? You seem to swoop in to make an anti-Apple comment every chance you get. Please, give it up. Now, now, children. Let's calm down. David, Joshua has a point: Microsoft users don't seem morally angry that Apple hasn't released its awesome iWork and iLife software for the PC. Why can't MS release software that only runs on their platform? Especially in the design world? They need a way to entice designers back to the MS platform, don't they? (Remember, as a Mac user, you can always use Parallels or VMware to run it.) Joshua, David has a point: You have to realize that those of us who are Apple users, being a segregated minority, are a little sensitive. We get a little touchy when they think they are being ignored. Even thought we opted to go with a non-standard platform because we like the convenience of getting things done quickly, we do feel slighted when good software appears to be PC only. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. http://is.gd/1uM9Z Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Joshua, David has a point: You have to realize that those of us who are Apple users, being a segregated minority, are a little sensitive. We get a little touchy when they think they are being ignored. Even thought we opted to go with a non-standard platform because we like the convenience of getting things done quickly, we do feel slighted when good software appears to be PC only. always bugs me that I have to pay a higher price for SPSS and Intuit products (and surely others) just because I work on a mac Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
On Jul 11, 2009, at 10:56 AM, mark schraad wrote: Joshua, David has a point: You have to realize that those of us who are Apple users, being a segregated minority, are a little sensitive. We get a little touchy when they think they are being ignored. Even thought we opted to go with a non-standard platform because we like the convenience of getting things done quickly, we do feel slighted when good software appears to be PC only. always bugs me that I have to pay a higher price for SPSS and Intuit products (and surely others) just because I work on a mac But it doesn't bug you so much that you buy a PC to run those apps. :) The water pump in a Toyota Camry and a Lexus es330 is exactly the same. However, if you buy the pump for the Lexus it will be $200 more than for the Toyota. Don't buy a Lexus is that bothers you. Privilege has its price. Just sayin' Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
didn't say I did not understand why, or in a logical mind see that its appropriate in a free market... just said it bugs me ; ) On Jul 11, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Jared Spool wrote: On Jul 11, 2009, at 10:56 AM, mark schraad wrote: Joshua, David has a point: You have to realize that those of us who are Apple users, being a segregated minority, are a little sensitive. We get a little touchy when they think they are being ignored. Even thought we opted to go with a non-standard platform because we like the convenience of getting things done quickly, we do feel slighted when good software appears to be PC only. always bugs me that I have to pay a higher price for SPSS and Intuit products (and surely others) just because I work on a mac But it doesn't bug you so much that you buy a PC to run those apps. :) The water pump in a Toyota Camry and a Lexus es330 is exactly the same. However, if you buy the pump for the Lexus it will be $200 more than for the Toyota. Don't buy a Lexus is that bothers you. Privilege has its price. Just sayin' Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Thank you Jared. I do realize that Apple users/fans can feel like a segregated minority, but blaming Microsoft for their woes is simply misguided. Being angry at a company for not producing a product for me is just silly. Personally, I like Subarus. They are quirky, well designed, and have great personalities. But I don't get angry when Toyota chooses to focus on products which don't meet my specific needs. I'm not being denied some sort of entitlement. Whining about it just isn't helpful. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
On Jul 11, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Joshua Muskovitz wrote: I do realize that Apple users/fans can feel like a segregated minority, but blaming Microsoft for their woes is simply misguided. Being angry at a company for not producing a product for me is just silly. Yes. After all, there are so many other woes we can blame Microsoft for. We don't need to add to the very large list. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Jared - Thanks for putting the issues here so clearly and fairly. I think the Subaru vs. Toyota analogy is not quite correct here. People who use Apple products actually receive an unfair penalty (and in some case, lose opportunities to do good design work) because Microsoft's enormous power over the market means that they can pretty much dictate industry standards (examples: Internet Explorer v. 6's non-standard HTML, the situation where many companies force users to use Outlook in order to support features of Exchange Server, the fact that Visio is the app used by so many wireframe teams despite the fact that there are other tools that are far better at that task, such as OmniGraffle - and yes, I know the 'pro' version of that app reads and writes Visio XML, but there's no reading and writing of original files). The court cases against Microsoft in Europe bear this out. In short, when Subaru puts out a car, they don't change some streets so that Toyota cars can't drive on it. As for whining, I'd hardly say that expressing dismay is a whine, especially when Microsoft hinted at supporting other platforms with Expression years ago but has never put anything out except a small subset of the apps in the suite. On 11-Jul-09, at 9:26 AM, Joshua Muskovitz wrote: Thank you Jared. I do realize that Apple users/fans can feel like a segregated minority, but blaming Microsoft for their woes is simply misguided. Being angry at a company for not producing a product for me is just silly. Personally, I like Subarus. They are quirky, well designed, and have great personalities. But I don't get angry when Toyota chooses to focus on products which don't meet my specific needs. I'm not being denied some sort of entitlement. Whining about it just isn't helpful. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Yes. After all, there are so many other woes we can blame Microsoft for. We don't need to add to the very large list. Exactly. ;-) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
No Mac version? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
No Mac version? I looked on the Microsoft site and couldn't find one. Really pissed off that they are ignoring the Mac for these kinds of tools the way they used to. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Expression Blend 3.0 with SketchFlow Released Today
Wait, you're pissed at Microsoft? Why aren't you pissed at Apple? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
