Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Gender bias in nominations

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Jo wrote:

> As a female member of OSGeo I don't really feel that my gender matters in the 
> slightest.

Having heard too many sad stories from across the software industry, and having 
seen a couple first-hand, that totally makes my day. We’re doing something 
right, folks.

Thanks.

-mpg

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Board Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 (actually: president's role in OSGEO)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

On Jul 18, 2014, at 5:31 AM, Jeff McKenna  wrote:

> Although your points make sense, the reality is that the President is
> requested specifically for many things, in person, or on a Skype call,
> writing a support letter, shaking a hand, giving a talk, etc etc.

Those are all things we would all *like* to do, yes, but the reality of
volunteer time available and funding limitations means that we cannot
always do everything we’d like to do.

If we were a Big Organization with Lots of Money, things would be
different, perhaps. But we’re not that, so we need to prioritize.

-mpg

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Membership fee (was: Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

While I don’t think I’m keen on having professionals foot the bill for OSGeo, 
Dirk is definitely on the right track. His citation of the core principles is 
timely, and I’ll go so far as to repeat it here:

   OSGeo should act as a low-capital, volunteer-focused organization.
   OSGeo should focus support on OSGeo communities and initiatives
   which support themselves.

We’re not like Apache, Eclipse, OGC, or ASPRS. We’re OSGeo, and I’d hate to see 
us drift away from that.

“Membership” should be for everyone and anyone. We do need a means to keep the 
board from straying from those core principles without overwhelming community 
agreement, which today is done by the idea of charter members. I’m open to 
changing the model of keeping the board on the right path, but am not willing 
to go so far as to create any sort membership barriers beyond that one small 
(yet essential) constraint.

-mpg



On Jul 1, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Dirk Frigne  wrote:

> Although I am not so active on the mailing list,  I am an OSGeo's
> advocate, and I take the opportunity to promote OSGeo wherever I can.
> 
> I became an OSGeo member in 2007 because I was proud on what the
> organisation did and I wanted to support it, with the scarce resources I
> own.
> 
> One of the things I appreciate enormously is
> 
> - The organisation is open (as in open source)
> - Becoming a member of the organisation is totally free (*yes* like in
> free beer!)
> - the organisation has a perfect DNA:
>- members can  
>- act as *A* user
>- act as *T*echnical skilled person (sofware developers,
> industry, documentation)
>- work at *G*overmental body
>- member of the s*C*ientific world (academic world)
> 
> In the world of today *free* as in gratis, *free* as in *free* *beer*,
> doing something for
> somebody else is very rare (scarce) that it becomes very valuable.
> Being a part of a community like OSGeo not only is *fun* but also gives
> you a *good* feeling, and it is very motivating to work in a company or
> organisation that supports OSGeo.
> 
> I may be naive, but for me personally this works out well, and having
> that feeling is one of the important incentives to keep contributing to
> the community. (And by the way, working with other members of the OSGeo
> community didn't result in any bad experience until now)
> 
> Of course, an organisation needs money, To support some stuff (.svn or
> whathever goal is worth supporting). But I think we should keep the
> membership *free* (and not as in *free* beer!), because it is in my eyes
> a very essential part of OSGeo:
> 
> "Core principles are:
> 
>OSGeo should act as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation.
>OSGeo should focus support on OSGeo communities and initiatives
> which support themselves. " [1]
> 
> As in DNA, different chains have different roles.
> 
> *G*overnments are happy to have such a movement as the Free and open
> source software [2] movement, because they can avoid vendor lock-in,
> gain control over their projects (read: become free again), and save a
> lot of money. They should take this advantage seriously and sponsor open
> source activities.
> 
> the s*C*ientific world is happy to use open source solutions, because
> they can study the tools themselves and focus on research, not being
> bothered of the licenses they are using.
> They also should take this advantage seriously and donate scientific
> relevant material they don't want to exploit immediately to the community.
> 
> *A*ny user should be free (*not* as in free beer) to use and experiment
> with the results of what the community is producing. The community
> should welcome *A*ny user and help him to find his way, so he can take
> his responsibility and earn respect for what he is doing.
> 
> And last but not least: the *T*echnically skilled persons are the heart
> of the community. Being able to create great teamwork and donate back to
> the community. Also they should take their responsibility and earn the
> respect they deserve.
> 
> But where is the money we need to operate the organisation?
> 
> Personally, I don't think it are the users nor the community members who
> should take care of that. Because the belonging to the community should
> remain a *free* right, where the value comes from respect and the
> intense feeling of giving something without expecting something back.
> 
> The strange thing is that many of the members are also professional
> involved into OSGeo (acting as A T G or C).
> So I suggest it should not be the (community) members who should pay for
> the support, but these professional actors.
> And they (the professional actors) should become a member (in their role
> of incorporation) to support it. But sponsored membership should not
> give rights to vote, or whatsoever. The only thing you gain is that you,
> as a professional incorporation, are happy with an organisation as
> OSGeo, fighting for your rights to be able to use *free* softw

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Correct: “membership”, by design at the original founding meeting, was designed 
not to confer ANY rights or distinguishing properties except for the ability to 
vote for board members.

While the election process is pretty messy right now, I view that as a solvable 
problem: I’m still at a loss to understand why we’d want to change anything 
more than that.

-mpg



On Jun 26, 2014, at 2:58 AM, Steven Feldman  wrote:

> If I have understood this procedure correctly:
> 
> The board is voted for by the Charter Members, new Charter Members are 
> proposed and voted for by the existing Charter Members, there may be a limit 
> placed on the number of new Charter Members set by the board.
> 
> Membership of OSGeo does not seem to confer any rights on the member.
> 
> Do we need to review our foundation docs to find a more inclusive procedure? 
> 
> Steven Feldman
> 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What's wrong? (was Re: Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

(just using my buddy Hobu as a foil here...)

So, the membership process is broken because it is ad hoc, difficult to 
coordinate, and so on? Agreed!

And there are only two benefits to “membership": voting for the board and 
personal PR? Agreed!

The personal PR one doesn’t count for much with me. Anyone putting anything 
like “actively involved in OSGeo” on their resume would get full points from me 
(speaking as a hiring manager type of person).

So, to me, that just leaves the Board election mechanism as the interesting 
question for discussion? Or is there something else about membership worth 
discussing? Unless we’re seriously talking about using membership dues as a 
potential revenue source?

I’m against making our organization any more formal or professional than it is 
now. We’re a grassroots, low-budget, loose affiliation of projects and 
interests. If we’re interested in changing the tone and dynamic of the 
organization, I’d be interested to hear from people as to what we think the 
change direction should be and to what ultimate advantage.

-mpg





On Jun 23, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Howard Butler  wrote:

> 
> On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Michael P. Gerlek  wrote:
> 
>> I’ve not been following this issue closely, so I just went back through the 
>> old mails and I’m still left with this rather basic question:
>> 
>> What is the problem that we are trying to solve?
> 
> OSGeo's membership process is completely adhoc, and it prevents people who 
> wish to be members from doing so. Seemingly, the only two benefits of 
> membership are 1) able to vote for board and 2) able to trumpet to world 
> you're a member. A paid membership doesn't doesn't really change that, but it 
> does help OSGeo in a number of important ways:
> 
> * Our organization would look pretty much exactly like all the other similar 
> professional organizations to the IRS
> * It smoothes out our revenue and provides a floor for things like 
> infrastructure, accounting, insurance, etc which are things a proper org 
> needs but OSGeo often lacks.
> * Anyone who wants to be a member can pay the fee, get the tshirt, and be a 
> member. 
> 
>> What started this movement?
> 
> I don't know that there's so much a movement, but rather a realization by 
> some that the membership process is a bit broken.  To simply let any/all who 
> want to be an OSGeo member has the board-packing concerns brought up during 
> the inaugural organization meeting. 
> 
>> What in our organization is “broken” that needs to be fixed?
> 
> * The CRO's administration of the board vote and membership rolls is a hard, 
> thankless job that ends up suffering the brunt of OSGeo's broken membership 
> process. 
> 
> * People who wish to be members of OSGeo can't simply sign up.
> 
> * OSGeo's purported revenue model of soliciting large donations from private 
> organizations does not match its real revenue model of harvesting income from 
> the FOSS4G conference. 
> 
> Howard
> 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] What's wrong? (was Re: Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I’ve not been following this issue closely, so I just went back through the old 
mails and I’m still left with this rather basic question:

What is the problem that we are trying to solve? What started this movement? 
What in our organization is “broken” that needs to be fixed?

-mpg

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

+1

-mpg



On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Howard Butler  wrote:
> I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
> private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
> hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
> lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in 
> the field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or 
> two.
> 
> Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:
> 
> - I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would 
> in a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people 
> are embarrassed by public fawning.
> 
> - Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
> list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept 
> their heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
> recognition. 
> 
> - I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.
> 
> - Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
> nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
> plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
> nomination process.
> 
> The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act 
> makes it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source 
> GIS is much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.
> 
> Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] OSGeo and LocationTech

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Cameron:

There's no reason a project can't play in both LT and OSGeo spheres, and indeed 
proposed a motion to that effect some months ago now.

However, it proved very controversial among some members of our community and I 
didn't feel it worth fighting at the time. Perhaps more pragmatic heads will 
prevail as LT gets further along.

-mpg



On Sep 10, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Andrew Ross  wrote:

> On 09/08/2012 04:38 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>> Andrew, I'm moving this conversation over to OSGeo Discuss list so that it 
>> has the opportunity for wider discussion.
> Thank you Cameron. And hello everyone.
>> 
>> Extracting from a conversation on the board email list ...
>> 
>> On 09/09/12 00:25, Andrew Ross wrote:
>>> If there is a close relationship between OSGeo & LocationTech, say where 
>>> there is a natural progression of projects into OSGeo and then to 
>>> LocationTech as they mature and look for corporate adoption & 
>>> contributions, the Steering Committee may see good value in financial 
>>> support. We are creating a program modelled after Friends of Eclipse which 
>>> enables individual sponsorship for a modest amount. This program is 
>>> designed to raise funds explicitly for the community. A close relationship 
>>> with OSGeo helping to direct those funds might make a lot of sense.
>>> 
>>> These are things going on at LocationTech in any case. Maybe they make 
>>> sense to get involved with or perhaps not. I'm glad to discuss if there's 
>>> potential.
>> 
>> Andrew, I'd like to suggest extending your thought to suggest that projects 
>> can be members of "OSGeo" AND "LocationTech" rather than OSGeo OR 
>> LocationTech. Any reason why that wouldn't work?
>> 
> Yes, at this point it looks like this can work fine.
> 
> A project needs to comply with governance/requirements be it those of OSGeo 
> or LocationTech. There is much overlap in this regard. In terms of 
> difference, LocationTech appears to have more rigour in terms of code 
> provenance, digging through prerequisites to detect potentially undesirable 
> licensing issues, trademark search, and such. The bill of good health that 
> results is seen as desirable by many companies when considering reuse & 
> investment in the project.
> 
> Andrew
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Supporting Standards

[Michael P. Gerlek]

[added standards mailing list back to the distribution list]

Quoting all of item 4, to put Stefano's quote in context:

"Standards specifications are made accessible to all for implementation
and deployment. Affirming standards organizations have defined
procedures to develop specifications that can be implemented under
fair terms. Given market diversity, fair terms may vary from 
royalty-free
to fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms (FRAND)."

I'm pretty pragmatic about this stuff, so I see this as a perfectly reasonable 
position for an organization to take.

-mpg



On Sep 6, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Stefano Costa  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Il 06/09/2012 17:26, Seven (aka Arnulf) ha scritto:
>> Folks, one item on the OGC Architecture Board meeting agenda today
>> was to look at this web site: http://open-stand.org/principles/
>> 
>> - From my perspective the principles listed here are very much
>> aligned with our goals and nicely worded. So my suggestion is to
>> support this initiative as an organization [1]. Let's have a dialog
>> here and if we come to the conclusion that we want to officially
>> endorse this submit a motion to the board for their next meeting.
> 
> I'm a bit worried by the vague wording of those principles.
> 
> More in detail, point 4 is crucial, stating that:
> 
>fair terms may vary from royalty-free to fair, reasonable, and
>non-discriminatory terms (FRAND).
> 
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#RAND for some
> background of why this is problematic for free and open source
> software (our mission, I believe).
> 
> Ciao
> steko

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Secret ballots for voting

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Someone asked the Board (off-list) why we do not publish the results of our 
elections in detail -- such as how many votes there were for each candidate, 
including any candidates that weren't elected.

I'm not sure if our bylaws require secret ballots, but that has been our 
process since the Foundation began.There are clearly pros and cons both ways 
for this. If we were fully transparent, everyone see who voted for whom and 
there would be no possibility of cheating. By keeping votes private, on the 
other hand, we allow people to candidly express their feelings without feeling 
any social pressures.

It's not clear to me that the community favors a change from our current secret 
ballot process, but I know it has been asked about before over the years and I 
know at least one person raised a question about the lack of transparency in 
our last round of voting. If you feel strongly about this please feel free to 
start a thread about it and we'll see what the consensus is.

PS- I can say that 98 of the 144 charter members voted in this last election.

-mpg

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mathematics of Planet Earth 2013

[Michael P. Gerlek]

It's not been mentioned in the Upper Echelons that I hang about in, for what 
that's worth.

If someone wanted to propose OSGeo get involved in this somehow, I'm sure we'd 
be interested…

-mpg



On Aug 14, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Barry Rowlingson  
wrote:

> Is anyone at the upper echelons of OSGeo aware of MPE2013?
> 
> http://mpe2013.org
> 
> """
> The mission of the MPE project is to:
> 
> * Encourage research in identifying and solving fundamental questions
> about planet earth
> * Encourage educators at all levels to communicate the issues related
> to planet earth
> * Inform the public about the essential role of the mathematical
> sciences in facing the challenges to our planet
> """
> 
> One point in one of the newsletters caught my eye:
> 
> """
> MPE2013 received the patronage of UNESCO. This includes, in
> particular, the international launching of the Mathematics of Planet
> Earth Open Source Exhibition foreseen to take place in the beginning
> of 2013. UNESCO had been approached on behalf of the International
> Union through the Canadian and French Commissions at UNESCO. In
> particular, MPE2013 will work in partnership with UNESCO for the
> promotion of the MPE exhibition.
> """
> 
> Is this on the OSGeo radar?
> 
> [Next year is also the International Year Of Statistics 2013 (plus or
> minus a few months)]
> 
> Barry
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] CORRECTION -- Re: Board Elections 2012

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Thank you, Yves and others, for quick response on this. 

(This is a great community of people we have here...)

.mpg, sitting in the runway


On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:32 AM, "Yves Jacolin (free)"  wrote:

> mpg,
> 
> done!
> 
> Y.
> Le 03/08/2012 14:25, Michael P. Gerlek a écrit :
>> Cameron Shorter's name was inadvertently omitted from the nomination page.
>> 
>> Arnulf and I are both(!) traveling today and can't quickly update the wiki - 
>> if some kind soul would do that for us, we would appreciate it.
>> 
>> If you have already voted and wish to change your selections, feel free to 
>> do so.
>> 
>> Thank you for your understanding  and cooperation!
>> 
>> .mpg & Arnulf, CRO's
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:27 AM, Arnulf Christl  wrote:
>> 
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> Dear Charter Members,
>>> we are approaching the end of the 2012 elections [0]. The Board
>>> nomination period has ended and all nominees listed on [1] have
>>> confirmed that they are happy to stand for election.
>>> 
>>> Please take your time to read through the nomination, the acceptance
>>> and thoughts from each candidate and then proceed to vote for 5
>>> different candidates by adding them one per line to an email to be
>>> sent to c...@osgeo.org.
>>> 
>>> Voting closes at 23:59 (your timezone) 12-August-2012!
>>> 
>>> Please caefully follow the instructions given on the Wiki [2] in order
>>> to be able to submit a valid email and MAKE SURE TO SEND IT TO
>>> c...@osgeo.org ONLY. Otherwise your vote may become public or just
>>> disappear somewhere. You will receive a confirmation of your
>>> successful vote. If you do not receive a confirmation within 24h of
>>> submitting your mail please contact c...@osgeo.org
>>> 
>>> Thank your for taking on this responsibility,
>>> Your CROs
>>> (Arnulf Christl & Michael Gerlek)
>>> 
>>> [0] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2012
>>> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2012
>>> [2]
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2012#Vote_for_new_Board_Members_-_2012-08-03_-_2012-08-12
>>> 
>>> - --
>>> President, OSGeo
>>> http://www.osgeo.org
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>> 
>>> iEYEARECAAYFAlAbtaAACgkQXmFKW+BJ1b38RwCeOFOp4mQGCXVQEAkd7pyvnRZE
>>> g5wAnjWfXfi9aImTjdIL4UZ3YKwIxVh4
>>> =UCHq
>>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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[OSGeo-Discuss] CORRECTION -- Re: Board Elections 2012

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Cameron Shorter's name was inadvertently omitted from the nomination page.

Arnulf and I are both(!) traveling today and can't quickly update the wiki - if 
some kind soul would do that for us, we would appreciate it. 

If you have already voted and wish to change your selections, feel free to do 
so. 

Thank you for your understanding  and cooperation!

.mpg & Arnulf, CRO's




On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:27 AM, Arnulf Christl  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Dear Charter Members,
> we are approaching the end of the 2012 elections [0]. The Board
> nomination period has ended and all nominees listed on [1] have
> confirmed that they are happy to stand for election.
> 
> Please take your time to read through the nomination, the acceptance
> and thoughts from each candidate and then proceed to vote for 5
> different candidates by adding them one per line to an email to be
> sent to c...@osgeo.org.
> 
> Voting closes at 23:59 (your timezone) 12-August-2012!
> 
> Please caefully follow the instructions given on the Wiki [2] in order
> to be able to submit a valid email and MAKE SURE TO SEND IT TO
> c...@osgeo.org ONLY. Otherwise your vote may become public or just
> disappear somewhere. You will receive a confirmation of your
> successful vote. If you do not receive a confirmation within 24h of
> submitting your mail please contact c...@osgeo.org
> 
> Thank your for taking on this responsibility,
> Your CROs
> (Arnulf Christl & Michael Gerlek)
> 
> [0] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2012
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2012
> [2]
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Election_2012#Vote_for_new_Board_Members_-_2012-08-03_-_2012-08-12
> 
> - -- 
> President, OSGeo
> http://www.osgeo.org
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlAbtaAACgkQXmFKW+BJ1b38RwCeOFOp4mQGCXVQEAkd7pyvnRZE
> g5wAnjWfXfi9aImTjdIL4UZ3YKwIxVh4
> =UCHq
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Geospatial Atlas

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> >Also, some companies would be willing to help underwrite production costs in 
> >exchange for some small ads on the back pages, if we
> wanted to go that way.
> 
>  Nice idea, but initial production costs are zero with
> publish-on-demand - its just the time of the editor.

Ah, but you're not thinking big enough :-)

We little people might pay for our own copies, sure, but I'd like to have the 
foundation have a stack of copies of this book: to give to our sponsors, to use 
as (high-end) marketing material for trade-shows, ...

-mpg



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[OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Cameron Shorter

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I am pleased to nominate Cameron Shorter to be a member of the OSGeo Board.

Followers of this list will no doubt already be familiar with Cameron: active 
in this foundation since the very beginning, he chaired the 2009 FOSS4G 
conference, has served on various OSGeo committees, and has worked on the 
OSGeo-Live project, among many other contributions.

He would surely make a great addition to the board team for the next two years.

-mpg


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Geospatial Atlas

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Also, some companies would be willing to help underwrite production costs in 
exchange for some small ads on the back pages, if we wanted to go that way.

.mpg

On Jul 28, 2012, at 4:33 AM, Barry Rowlingson  
wrote:

> Do you think an atlas of beautiful maps produced with open-source
> technology (software and data) could be made? Here's what I was
> thinking:
> 
> * Put out a proposal for beautiful cartography, stunning maps, and
> insightful visualisations done with OpenSource applications and/or
> Open Data.
> 
> * Collect map proposals as images on a flickr group:
> http://www.flickr.com/groups/osgeomaps/
> 
> * Get enough, have a community vote/expert opinion for the best 50 or so.
> 
> * Get high-res or vector versions of the winners.
> 
> * Get authors to write a note for the book, explaining the software,
> the techniques, and the impact of their work.
> 
> * Edit them into a glossy colour book, publish on a publish-on-demand
> site (eg lulu.com).
> 
> * Give free copies to the authors of the top ten voted maps or maybe
> all the ones included (I'll pay for these unless someone wants to
> sponsor it).
> 
> * Release the PDF under an open license. Of course.
> 
> * Profit!! [By selling copies on lulu at a small premium for OSGeo]
> 
> I don't think the production effort is very much, I just wonder if
> enough people are producing maps that will look good in A4 or larger
> (we're all about the web these days, right?) and if publicity can be
> sustained enough to get 50 nice maps. The timeline would be set so we
> have lots of glossy copies of these sitting around for sale at FOSS4G
> 2013.
> 
> Good idea? Or will we just get 45 maps which are stamen.com
> watercolour backgrounds with some points pasted on? There is a
> perception which I think we've all heard that Open Source GIS packages
> can't do cartography, but with a little help from Inkscape I've seen
> some great-looking maps on posters at conferences.
> 
> ESRI used to (still do?) produce an Arc/Info atlas (I have a vague
> memory of something A3-size in our GIS research lab 20 years ago) of
> maps - surely we can do something like that now. Obviously I'm
> sticking my hand up to do the work for this, my concern is purely
> whether we'd get enough entries. I'd like the bar to be quite high.
> Most of the work is going to be done by the mappers themselves.
> 
> Shoot.
> 
> Barry
> 
> -- 
> blog: http://geospaced.blogspot.com/
> web: http://www.maths.lancs.ac.uk/~rowlings
> web: http://www.rowlingson.com/
> twitter: http://twitter.com/geospacedman
> pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spacedman
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Geospatial Atlas

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Barry:

This is the coolest idea I've heard in a long time.

ESRI does a yearly coffee-table book for Arc-generated maps, the various 
satellite companies make calendars every year with their best hi-res shots... 
We should play the game too. 

Count me in, I'll volunteer to help.

.mpg

On Jul 28, 2012, at 4:33 AM, Barry Rowlingson  
wrote:

> Do you think an atlas of beautiful maps produced with open-source
> technology (software and data) could be made? Here's what I was
> thinking:
> 
> * Put out a proposal for beautiful cartography, stunning maps, and
> insightful visualisations done with OpenSource applications and/or
> Open Data.
> 
> * Collect map proposals as images on a flickr group:
> http://www.flickr.com/groups/osgeomaps/
> 
> * Get enough, have a community vote/expert opinion for the best 50 or so.
> 
> * Get high-res or vector versions of the winners.
> 
> * Get authors to write a note for the book, explaining the software,
> the techniques, and the impact of their work.
> 
> * Edit them into a glossy colour book, publish on a publish-on-demand
> site (eg lulu.com).
> 
> * Give free copies to the authors of the top ten voted maps or maybe
> all the ones included (I'll pay for these unless someone wants to
> sponsor it).
> 
> * Release the PDF under an open license. Of course.
> 
> * Profit!! [By selling copies on lulu at a small premium for OSGeo]
> 
> I don't think the production effort is very much, I just wonder if
> enough people are producing maps that will look good in A4 or larger
> (we're all about the web these days, right?) and if publicity can be
> sustained enough to get 50 nice maps. The timeline would be set so we
> have lots of glossy copies of these sitting around for sale at FOSS4G
> 2013.
> 
> Good idea? Or will we just get 45 maps which are stamen.com
> watercolour backgrounds with some points pasted on? There is a
> perception which I think we've all heard that Open Source GIS packages
> can't do cartography, but with a little help from Inkscape I've seen
> some great-looking maps on posters at conferences.
> 
> ESRI used to (still do?) produce an Arc/Info atlas (I have a vague
> memory of something A3-size in our GIS research lab 20 years ago) of
> maps - surely we can do something like that now. Obviously I'm
> sticking my hand up to do the work for this, my concern is purely
> whether we'd get enough entries. I'd like the bar to be quite high.
> Most of the work is going to be done by the mappers themselves.
> 
> Shoot.
> 
> Barry
> 
> -- 
> blog: http://geospaced.blogspot.com/
> web: http://www.maths.lancs.ac.uk/~rowlings
> web: http://www.rowlingson.com/
> twitter: http://twitter.com/geospacedman
> pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spacedman
> ___
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] The importance of a project's license

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I hesitate to get into this discussion, but...

Puneet wrote:
> [...] I short-circuit all license discussions in my personal domain by
> not having any license. Life is too short and precious, in my view, to 
> encumber with 
> these complications.

Do you literally mean no license at all? That might be a mistake, if you're 
looking for others to adopt your code.

Having no license documentation in the code raises all sorts of red flags.  In 
my commercial or government work, I'd not allow use of any code whose 
provenance, author, and/or copyright status is at all unclear.
 
-mpg


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

[Michael P. Gerlek]

As someone just pointed out to me, I should add this further clarification:

All team members must be U.S. citizens and at least 18 years of age.

(If there was an "osgeo-discuss-usa" list, I'd have used that instead. 
Apologies.)

On a happier note, though, also observe that:

There are no specific academic, professional or experience-related 
requirements. If it is not 
obvious from a team's resumes, the team should make a credible case 
that it has the skills 
necessary to accomplish what it proposes.

_mpg



-Original Message-----
From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:58 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

Sorry, I left out the most important bit:

DARPA is very supportive of open source -- as a means of doing things 
cheaper, bootstrapping faster,
fostering collaboration, and promoting extensibility.

_mpg


-Original Message-----
From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:54 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions (discuss@lists.osgeo.org)
Subject: DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

DARPA and George Mason University are running a very novel, incubator-like 
opportunity for small teams of people interested in a chance to pursue radical 
new ideas in the areas of geospatial and visual data analysis.

If you've got an idea for something truly different in the geo data world, and 
would like to spend 8 weeks exploring the idea with a $50K budget, you can find 
more details and background here:

http://go.usa.gov/wo5

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/darpa-innovation-house-project-imaging-data/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/darpa-george-mason-seek-trailblazers-for-eight-week-innovation-house-study-program/2012/07/10/gJQAv06naW_blog.html

Deadline is July 31st, so act fast! 

[disclaimers: it is being run by my former boss at DARPA and I'm a member of 
the review committee]

_mpg


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Boad of Director Nomination: Daniel Morissette

[Michael P. Gerlek]

+1!

_mpg


-Original Message-
From: Seven (aka Arnulf) [mailto:se...@arnulf.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:19 AM
To: c...@osgeo.org; OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Boad of Director Nomination: Daniel Morissette

Dear OSGeo Community, Charter Members,
I want to nominate Daniel Morissette for the OSGeo board of directors.

I have been working with Daniel for many years and he is one of the most 
trustworthy and consistently productive people I know. He has always proven to 
be highly sensitive to community related aspects and has an international 
outlook, combined with very good English skills. This makes him a good mediator 
between different regions and cultures, a regularly upcoming issue in our 
community. This would already make him an invaluable member of the board of 
directors. But this is not enough, on top of this he also tends to the irksome 
job of treasurer and has toiled through many down-to-earth tasks that an 
organization of our size requires to get done. He is also an integral part of 
the Franco-Canadian local community and a relentless contributor to the 
MapServer project.

It would be silly to not squeeze some more out of him if he so friendly asks 
for it.

Thank you,
Arnulf

--
Exploring Space, Time and Mind
http://arnulf.us

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Sorry, I left out the most important bit:

DARPA is very supportive of open source -- as a means of doing things 
cheaper, bootstrapping faster,
fostering collaboration, and promoting extensibility.

_mpg


-Original Message-
From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:54 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions (discuss@lists.osgeo.org)
Subject: DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

DARPA and George Mason University are running a very novel, incubator-like 
opportunity for small teams of people interested in a chance to pursue radical 
new ideas in the areas of geospatial and visual data analysis.

If you've got an idea for something truly different in the geo data world, and 
would like to spend 8 weeks exploring the idea with a $50K budget, you can find 
more details and background here:

http://go.usa.gov/wo5

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/darpa-innovation-house-project-imaging-data/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/darpa-george-mason-seek-trailblazers-for-eight-week-innovation-house-study-program/2012/07/10/gJQAv06naW_blog.html

Deadline is July 31st, so act fast! 

[disclaimers: it is being run by my former boss at DARPA and I'm a member of 
the review committee]

_mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] DARPA-funded short-term incubator for geospatial data analysis

[Michael P. Gerlek]

DARPA and George Mason University are running a very novel, incubator-like 
opportunity for small teams of people interested in a chance to pursue radical 
new ideas in the areas of geospatial and visual data analysis.

If you've got an idea for something truly different in the geo data world, and 
would like to spend 8 weeks exploring the idea with a $50K budget, you can find 
more details and background here:

http://go.usa.gov/wo5

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/darpa-innovation-house-project-imaging-data/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/darpa-george-mason-seek-trailblazers-for-eight-week-innovation-house-study-program/2012/07/10/gJQAv06naW_blog.html

Deadline is July 31st, so act fast! 

[disclaimers: it is being run by my former boss at DARPA and I'm a member of 
the review committee]

_mpg


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Fwd: Board elections Voting

[Michael P. Gerlek]

+1

I like the old way better too, but Daniel it right: the comment period is past.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Morissette
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:06 AM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Fwd: Board elections Voting
> 
> On 12-07-25 9:08 AM, Seven (aka Arnulf) wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the link steko. For this election I suggest we stick with
> > what we have though, probably a little late to introduce this. But I
> > will add the whole elections topic to the next board meeting so that
> > we don't wake up late for the next elections again...
> >
> 
> I am with Arnulf on this: let's stick with what we have and revisit in
> time before the next election.
> 
> The current election schedule was proposed on June 14 [1] and
> discussed/edited for about a week until it was finally approved on June
> 21 [2], so there was time for members to comment if they wanted to (and
> some did if you look in the archives). I don't care one way or the other
> personally for the voting, but I do know that it's not possile to make
> everyone happy and I'm sure that for every charter member requesting a
> change we can find one that would find it inappropriate to change the
> rules in the middle of an election.
> 
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2012-June/009714.html
> 
> [2] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2012-June/009745.html
> 
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> Provider of Professional MapServer Support since 2000
> 
> 
> 
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Do you want to be on the OSGeo Board?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

The nomination period for 2012 OSGeo Board Members starts in two weeks.

As a long-time member of the OSGeo community and as a current Board member, I 
can say that this organization that has helped build a fantastic and supportive 
community over the past several years. However, there are always ongoing 
discussions about areas where we could improve our impact on the open source 
geospatial ecosystem.

If you are interested in helping set the direction for OSGeo over the next 
couple years and/or have some ideas about the strategic issues we face, I 
encourage you to start a discussion on either the Board or Discussion lists.

_mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] New charter members!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

We received 22 nominations for the 2012 Charter Members. There were 20 
membership positions available, but the board acted over the weekend to 
increase that number to 22.

Therefore, on behalf of the OSGeo Board and the entire OSGeo community, I am 
pleased to welcome the following people as OSGeo Charter Members for 2012:

Barend Kobben   Netherlands
Angelos Tzotsos Greece
Anita GraserAustria
Victor OlayaSpain
Pedro-Juan Ferrer   Spain
Andrea AimeeItaly
Jean-Roc Morreale   France
Serena Coetzee  South Africa
Michael Smith   USA
Karel Charvat   Czech Republic
Jan Jezek   Czech Republic
Vasile Craciunescu  Romania
Thomas Bonfort  France
Mauricio MirandaArgentina
Peter Löwe  Germany
Massimiliano CannataItaly
P.K.Sinha   India
Brian HamlinUSA
Ragi Yaser Burhum   Peru
Dimitris Kotzinos   Greece
César MedinaChile
Doug NewcombUSA

Congratulations to all!

_mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] CHARTER MEMBERS: please read [second call]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I have heard from 47 of the 125 members, which is actually a pretty good 
response -- thank you!

However, this means I still have not heard from 78 of you. Please respond, so 
that we will be sure to get your votes for the upcoming board and charter 
elections!

-mpg




> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 11:23 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: CHARTER MEMBERS: please read
> 
> In advance of OSGeo's 2012 election season, we are updated our database of 
> charter members.
> 
> We need at least an email address for each of the charter members, although 
> we will optionally be happy to accept the following data
> from you as well:
>   Last Name (surname)
>   First and middle names
>   Nationality
>   Affiliation
>   Street Address
>   City
>   State/Province
>   Country
>   Post Code
>   Phone
> 
> Please send this information to me (m...@flaxen.com).
> 
> This information is kept confidential, restricted to the board members. 
> (Aggregated information without personal identifiers, such as
> nationalities, may be used for tracking our demographics.)
> 
> The current list of 125 charter members is posted here: 
> http://www.osgeo.org/charter_members.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> _mpg, OSGeo board secretary


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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: [OSGeo-Conf] Short report about FOSS4G-CEE 2012 with outlook to coming years

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Jachym-

Can you provide us with a summary of the financial aspects of your event? 
Things like did the attendees have to pay anything and if so how much, did you 
have any sponsors, how much was spent on the venue, food, etc, etc. This is 
good information to have, for others thinking about planning similar events.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: conference_dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:conference_dev-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jachym Cepicky
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:38 PM
> To: Discussions, OSGeo; conference-...@lists.osgeo.org; 'conference'
> Subject: [OSGeo-Conf] Short report about FOSS4G-CEE 2012 with outlook to 
> coming years
> 
> Hi,
> if anybody is interested, I'm sending here very short report about
> FOSS4G-CEE & Geoinformatics in Prague 2012, which was organised this
> week (and which is continuing with GRASS Code sprint right now). See
> http://foss4g-cee.org for more details.
> 
> Number of registered participants: 120
> 
> CZ - 35
> RO - 14
> DE - 12
> FR - 6
> AT - 5
> SK - 4
> EE, HU, CH, PL, TU, USA - 3
> IT, UK - 2
> HR, NRW, NZ, Georgia, Ghana, Nigeria 1
> 
> Number of accepted papers cca 60
> Number of accepted workshops: 6
> Number of accepted tutorials: 5
> 
> However, relatively high number of presenters did not arrive (at least
> one did announce it soon enough, but has slipped between my fingers,
> sorry one more time) - luckily, present speakers were usually able to
> prolong their presentations operatively.
> 
> On some tutorials, no attendees have come :-(
> 
> Social events formal and informal: nice!
> 
> Lessons learned:
> 
> * Double check presenters against list of registrations.
> * Double check list of vegetarians and keep track of it
> * Have more accepted presentations in the stack, for possible substitutions
> * and others
> 
> List of photos: http://foss4g-cee.org/photos/
> 
> PDF version of presentations are being added to
> http://foss4g-cee.org/program/overview/
> 
> Big thanks to the organisation team, general feedback was positive.
> 
> Big thanks to all participants: Without them, the conference would not
> happen.
> 
> Future of FOSS4G-CEE:
> -
> 
> It was agreed, that (unless there is no big obligation), FOSS4G-CEE 2013
> will be organised by  Vasile Crăciunescu and his team at geo-spatial.org
> in Bucharest, Romania. Their situation will be quite difficult thanks to
> "global" FOSS4G organised "somewhere in Europe". But still, they have
> clearly expressed their enthusiasm about organisation the event.
> 
> During the event, several participants from various countries (France,
> Italy, Germany, Czech, Romania and others) have indicated their strong
> demand for conference best described as "FOSS4G-Europe".
> 
> Having FOSS4G-NA in mind, and all the discussions about positives and
> negatives of such proposals, we've had during last months, I do
> personally support this idea: There is demand for more local oriented,
> yet "big enough" events around the ellipsoid, let's talk about it
> (better in some other thread, at conference_dev list). Such event should
> happen during 2014, so we have about year for clarifying all possible
> questions.
> 
> Jachym
> 
> --
> Jachym Cepicky
> Help Service - Remote Sensing s.r.o.
> jachym.cepi...@gmail.com | jac...@hsrs.cz
> http://les-ejk.cz | http://bnhelp.cz


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[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo's jobs mailing list

[Michael P. Gerlek]

This is just a gentle reminder that there is a mailing list for geospatial jobs 
related to open source over at j...@lists.osgeo.org (archived at 
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/jobs/).

If you are looking to hire someone to do some open source geo work, or if 
you're looking to get hired to do some open source geo work, this is a good 
place to go.

It is a moderated list with very low volume -- just a handful of posts per 
month.

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] CHARTER MEMBERS: please read

[Michael P. Gerlek]

In advance of OSGeo's 2012 election season, we are updated our database of 
charter members.

We need at least an email address for each of the charter members, although we 
will optionally be happy to accept the following data from you as well:
Last Name (surname)
First and middle names
Nationality
Affiliation
Street Address
City
State/Province
Country
Post Code
Phone

Please send this information to me (m...@flaxen.com).

This information is kept confidential, restricted to the board members. 
(Aggregated information without personal identifiers, such as nationalities, 
may be used for tracking our demographics.)

The current list of 125 charter members is posted here: 
http://www.osgeo.org/charter_members.

Thank you.

_mpg, OSGeo board secretary


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RE: [Board] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> > Your points have actually been discussed, but so far there hasn't 
> > apparently been enough 
> > interest to further push the idea of stronger charter member roles.
> "enough interest" in the community or the OSGeo Board?

Both.

> > (Your points (1) and (3) are already the case, and some people (myself 
> > included) feel that (2) is not desirable right now.)
> About (2), why is it not desirable?

The board is elected by the charter members to make policy. When the system was 
set up, it was not the intent that charter members had any role other than to 
preserve the nature and mission of the foundation by electing appropriate board 
members.

Other than that, many of us did not want to create any sort of "special" status 
for members of the community: we wanted to be as open and inclusive as 
possible. To  that end, we have a public board mailing list where issues can be 
raised and discussed by all, and the monthly board meetings are also held 
openly on #irc.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On 
> Behalf Of Venkatesh Raghavan
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 9:58 AM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; 'OSGeo-Board'; 'marketing'
> Subject: Re: [Board] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> 
> Michael,
> 
> On 2012/05/05 23:58, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > Your points have actually been discussed, but so far there hasn't 
> > apparently been enough interest to further push the idea of
> stronger charter member roles.
> "enough interest" in the community or the OSGeo Board?
> >
> >
> >
> > (Your points (1) and (3) are already the case, and some people (myself 
> > included) feel that (2) is not desirable right now.)
> About (2), why is it not desirable?
> 
> Venka
> >
> >
> >
> > -mpg
> >
> >
> >
> > From: board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
> > On Behalf Of Venkatesh Raghavan
> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 5:46 AM
> > Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; OSGeo-Board; marketing
> > Subject: [Board] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> >
> >
> >
> > There was a discussion about responsibility of Charter members
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2011-December/009239.html
> >
> > and a wiki page (see below) was initiated (at the request of a Board member)
> > but not much input after that.
> > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_charter_member_page_instruction
> >
> > I also made several suggestions to the board which till date is answered by 
> > anyone
> > on the OSGeo board.
> > See thread http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2012-January/009337.html
> >
> > Venka
> >
> >
> >
> 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

even an alias is fine) to be used as their primary 
address
- interviews on the main blog
- a track record of their public activity wrt OSGeo promotion, software 
development, management, documentation and what else

In this way the charter members could gain a higher visibility in the wider 
geospatial community and be recognised as official representatives.

Ciao
steko

BTW is there any process in place to "remove" charter members if they become 
inactive, move to another planet or are deemed unfit for the purpose by the 
community?
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On 20/04/12 07:24, Cameron Shorter wrote:

On 20/04/2012 4:06 AM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

Do we have any policies and cost structures for the Ambassador function yet?


I've seen a few people talking about creating an OSGeo Ambassador role. Arnulf 
I think might have been the first to mention it, and I think it is an excellent 
idea. I'm also aware that the OGC are considering developing OGC ambassadors 
too.

So I'd like to open the floor and see what people think an ambassador's role 
could involve, which leads into the qualities we would wish our ambassador's to 
have, which leads into the ways we may select an ambassador.

Let me start by noting some of the driving factors:
1. Arnulf has noted that as OSGeo president, he has spent a significant amount 
of time on areoplanes travelling around the world to talk on behalf of OSGeo. 
He has suggested that this role should be shared.
Conference organisors, who have a primary goal of attracting attendees, look 
for authoritative figureheads to talk at conferences. They are expected to have 
a deep insight into a specific domain, such as OSGeo. They should also speak 
well, even better if they are entertaining.

2. OSGeo is a sexy topic has many conferences, and there are hundreds, if not 
thousands of conferences around the world which would like to see an OSGeo 
presence.

3. OSGeo is fortunate to draw membership from around the world, including 
boasting a number of very healthy local chapters. As such, we are likely to 
have potential ambassadors in most counties. (We might be a bit short in 
Antarctica)

4. There are times when negotiating MOUs or similar with other countries, it 
would be useful to have someone local speak with authority on behalf of OSGeo.

5. Note that there are conflicting interests here of wanting to open up the 
role for anyone who volunteers, verses maintaining a selectiveness and prestige 
for the role which is the key selection criteria for conferences asking for an 
ambassador.

As such, I think it important that ambassadors can only be voted into the 
position, and not handed out to anyone. We already vote for a board, and 
charter members.
I think board members should be considered ambassadors by default.
Should charter members be considered ambassadors? Charter members only get this 
role after demonstrating a commitment to OSGeo, so will likely have a 
reasonable depth of OSGeo knowledge. Maybe we should ask for a history of 
speaking well (as demonstrated at conferences), to the ambassador criteria.

Then lastly, do we wish to invite ambassadors from a greater circle? At this 
point, I'd probably err on saying no, as if the entry bar to becoming an 
ambassador is too easy, then the mystic of the role will be lost.





-- 
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050  
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254  

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com




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-- 
Ing. Margherita Di Leo, Ph.D. 




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RE: [Board] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

e" charter members if they
become inactive, move to another planet or are deemed unfit for the purpose
by the community?
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On 20/04/12 07:24, Cameron Shorter wrote:
 

On 20/04/2012 4:06 AM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
 

Do we have any policies and cost structures for the Ambassador function
yet?
 

 
I've seen a few people talking about creating an OSGeo Ambassador role.
Arnulf I think might have been the first to mention it, and I think it is
an excellent idea. I'm also aware that the OGC are considering developing
OGC ambassadors too.
 
So I'd like to open the floor and see what people think an ambassador's
role could involve, which leads into the qualities we would wish our
ambassador's to have, which leads into the ways we may select an ambassador.
 
Let me start by noting some of the driving factors:
1. Arnulf has noted that as OSGeo president, he has spent a significant
amount of time on areoplanes travelling around the world to talk on behalf
of OSGeo. He has suggested that this role should be shared.
Conference organisors, who have a primary goal of attracting attendees,
look for authoritative figureheads to talk at conferences. They are
expected to have a deep insight into a specific domain, such as OSGeo. They
should also speak well, even better if they are entertaining.
 
2. OSGeo is a sexy topic has many conferences, and there are hundreds, if
not thousands of conferences around the world which would like to see an
OSGeo presence.
 
3. OSGeo is fortunate to draw membership from around the world, including
boasting a number of very healthy local chapters. As such, we are likely to
have potential ambassadors in most counties. (We might be a bit short in
Antarctica)
 
4. There are times when negotiating MOUs or similar with other countries,
it would be useful to have someone local speak with authority on behalf of
OSGeo.
 
5. Note that there are conflicting interests here of wanting to open up
the role for anyone who volunteers, verses maintaining a selectiveness and
prestige for the role which is the key selection criteria for conferences
asking for an ambassador.
 
As such, I think it important that ambassadors can only be voted into the
position, and not handed out to anyone. We already vote for a board, and
charter members.
I think board members should be considered ambassadors by default.
Should charter members be considered ambassadors? Charter members only
get this role after demonstrating a commitment to OSGeo, so will likely
have a reasonable depth of OSGeo knowledge. Maybe we should ask for a
history of speaking well (as demonstrated at conferences), to the
ambassador criteria.
 
Then lastly, do we wish to invite ambassadors from a greater circle? At
this point, I'd probably err on saying no, as if the entry bar to becoming
an ambassador is too easy, then the mystic of the role will be lost.
 
 
 

 
--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
 
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com
 
 
 
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<http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
 

 
 
 






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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Dimitris:

No apologies needed, it is an important discussion to have! But as you are 
aware, there are no easy answers.

The Board of Directors has been discussing these issues a lot, both on lists 
and in face-to-face meetings. The problem is that OSGeo has a very broad 
charter and a very diverse membership, and so it is hard to just say "we should 
do this" or "we should do that" without looking at all the tradeoffs involved. 
And furthermore, doing anything substantial requires funding, which is hard to 
get without a clear set of goals and objectives to take to potential sponsors 
-- and so it's a circular problem.

One of the first steps we know we need to take, before we can go after any real 
sponsorship funding, is to fix some long-standing problems with our accounting 
practices and our unclear nonprofit status; both of those are being worked on 
actively right now (by Daniel and me). Another needed step is to revive the 
Marketing committee; Arnulf and Cameron are doing that right now as well.

That said, a lesson we're coming to grips with is that certain "business 
development" and "back-office" functions are not well-suited to a 
volunteer-based organization or even a single paid Executive Director 
generalist -- those jobs require specific skillsets, which some of us think it 
might be best to outsource or partner with another allied nonprofit 
organization.

Since the board is made up of volunteers spread across the globe, it's hard to 
be able to move as fast on any of these issues as I would like, but I do think 
the current board is slowly digging our way through all this. For more 
discussions on this stuff, I'd encourage you to join the board list.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Dimitris Kotzinos
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 3:50 PM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> following up on Michael's e-mail, I have to say that I find the idea of
> having OSGEO ambassadors very useful and I think that we should keep it
> to a limited number of people (maybe about a dozen as a maximum)
> geographically spread all over the globe.
> 
> Moreover, I would like to take the opportunity to put forward some
> additional concerns.
> I have followed in this list some (sometimes fierce) discussions about
> managerial issues of the OSGEO (e.g. the discussion on the decision to
> have no Executive Director, the discussion on the responsibilities for
> the Beijing conference and so on). I am still missing the discussion (at
> the discussion list) of a more complete and coherent plan on how we
> think OSGEO should go on for the next couple of years.
> I think that having Ambassadors or not should be part of a greater plan
> on how we think OSGEO should handle (sometimes practical) issues like
> its representation in events, its public face, the conferences we want
> to put together (and how) and so on ...
> Thus my request is to discuss the whatever plan as a whole and not as
> individual ideas.
> 
> My apologies for opening up again a discussion that might already be
> obsolete :)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dimitris Kotzinos
> 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

See also this page on the OGC website:

http://www.ogcnetwork.net/node/1585 

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 3:15 PM
> To: 'Cameron Shorter'; 'OSGeo Discussions'
> Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> 
> Cameron, thanks for bringing this up for discussion.
> 
> A couple things to note:
> 
> - in some cases, the Board might decide that it is important enough to have 
> an Ambassador at an event that the Foundation would
> cover travel expenses
> 
> - it is unlikely that the Foundation would be able to cover the costs of the 
> Ambassador's time, however; aside from the expense
> involved and trying to determine a fair uniform hourly rate, I could see that 
> turn into a fight for who gets to go; but on the other hand,
> a nominal fee might help enable some of us who are self-employed or similar 
> to fill the ambassador role
> 
> - some events/functions might require the Ambassador be a Board member as 
> well (as in the case of the email of mine which
> Cameron quotes)
> 
> -mpg
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> > [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:24 PM
> > To: OSGeo Discussions
> > Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> >
> > On 20/04/2012 4:06 AM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > > Do we have any policies and cost structures for the Ambassador function 
> > > yet?
> >
> > I've seen a few people talking about creating an OSGeo Ambassador role.
> > Arnulf I think might have been the first to mention it, and I think it
> > is an excellent idea. I'm also aware that the OGC are considering
> > developing OGC ambassadors too.
> >
> > So I'd like to open the floor and see what people think an ambassador's
> > role could involve, which leads into the qualities we would wish our
> > ambassador's to have, which leads into the ways we may select an ambassador.
> >
> > Let me start by noting some of the driving factors:
> > 1. Arnulf has noted that as OSGeo president, he has spent a significant
> > amount of time on areoplanes travelling around the world to talk on
> > behalf of OSGeo. He has suggested that this role should be shared.
> > Conference organisors, who have a primary goal of attracting attendees,
> > look for authoritative figureheads to talk at conferences. They are
> > expected to have a deep insight into a specific domain, such as OSGeo.
> > They should also speak well, even better if they are entertaining.
> >
> > 2. OSGeo is a sexy topic has many conferences, and there are hundreds,
> > if not thousands of conferences around the world which would like to see
> > an OSGeo presence.
> >
> > 3. OSGeo is fortunate to draw membership from around the world,
> > including boasting a number of very healthy local chapters. As such, we
> > are likely to have potential ambassadors in most counties. (We might be
> > a bit short in Antarctica)
> >
> > 4. There are times when negotiating MOUs or similar with other
> > countries, it would be useful to have someone local speak with authority
> > on behalf of OSGeo.
> >
> > 5. Note that there are conflicting interests here of wanting to open up
> > the role for anyone who volunteers, verses maintaining a selectiveness
> > and prestige for the role which is the key selection criteria for
> > conferences asking for an ambassador.
> >
> > As such, I think it important that ambassadors can only be voted into
> > the position, and not handed out to anyone. We already vote for a board,
> > and charter members.
> > I think board members should be considered ambassadors by default.
> > Should charter members be considered ambassadors? Charter members only
> > get this role after demonstrating a commitment to OSGeo, so will likely
> > have a reasonable depth of OSGeo knowledge. Maybe we should ask for a
> > history of speaking well (as demonstrated at conferences), to the
> > ambassador criteria.
> >
> > Then lastly, do we wish to invite ambassadors from a greater circle? At
> > this point, I'd probably err on saying no, as if the entry bar to
> > becoming an ambassador is too easy, then the mystic of the role will be
> > lost.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cameron Shorter
> > Geospatial Solutions Manager
> > Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> > Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
> >
> > Think Globally, Fix Locally
> > Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> > http://www.lisasoft.com
> >
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Cameron, thanks for bringing this up for discussion.

A couple things to note:

- in some cases, the Board might decide that it is important enough to have an 
Ambassador at an event that the Foundation would cover travel expenses

- it is unlikely that the Foundation would be able to cover the costs of the 
Ambassador's time, however; aside from the expense involved and trying to 
determine a fair uniform hourly rate, I could see that turn into a fight for 
who gets to go; but on the other hand, a nominal fee might help enable some of 
us who are self-employed or similar to fill the ambassador role

- some events/functions might require the Ambassador be a Board member as well 
(as in the case of the email of mine which Cameron quotes)

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:24 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Defining an OSGeo Ambassador role
> 
> On 20/04/2012 4:06 AM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > Do we have any policies and cost structures for the Ambassador function yet?
> 
> I've seen a few people talking about creating an OSGeo Ambassador role.
> Arnulf I think might have been the first to mention it, and I think it
> is an excellent idea. I'm also aware that the OGC are considering
> developing OGC ambassadors too.
> 
> So I'd like to open the floor and see what people think an ambassador's
> role could involve, which leads into the qualities we would wish our
> ambassador's to have, which leads into the ways we may select an ambassador.
> 
> Let me start by noting some of the driving factors:
> 1. Arnulf has noted that as OSGeo president, he has spent a significant
> amount of time on areoplanes travelling around the world to talk on
> behalf of OSGeo. He has suggested that this role should be shared.
> Conference organisors, who have a primary goal of attracting attendees,
> look for authoritative figureheads to talk at conferences. They are
> expected to have a deep insight into a specific domain, such as OSGeo.
> They should also speak well, even better if they are entertaining.
> 
> 2. OSGeo is a sexy topic has many conferences, and there are hundreds,
> if not thousands of conferences around the world which would like to see
> an OSGeo presence.
> 
> 3. OSGeo is fortunate to draw membership from around the world,
> including boasting a number of very healthy local chapters. As such, we
> are likely to have potential ambassadors in most counties. (We might be
> a bit short in Antarctica)
> 
> 4. There are times when negotiating MOUs or similar with other
> countries, it would be useful to have someone local speak with authority
> on behalf of OSGeo.
> 
> 5. Note that there are conflicting interests here of wanting to open up
> the role for anyone who volunteers, verses maintaining a selectiveness
> and prestige for the role which is the key selection criteria for
> conferences asking for an ambassador.
> 
> As such, I think it important that ambassadors can only be voted into
> the position, and not handed out to anyone. We already vote for a board,
> and charter members.
> I think board members should be considered ambassadors by default.
> Should charter members be considered ambassadors? Charter members only
> get this role after demonstrating a commitment to OSGeo, so will likely
> have a reasonable depth of OSGeo knowledge. Maybe we should ask for a
> history of speaking well (as demonstrated at conferences), to the
> ambassador criteria.
> 
> Then lastly, do we wish to invite ambassadors from a greater circle? At
> this point, I'd probably err on saying no, as if the entry bar to
> becoming an ambassador is too easy, then the mystic of the role will be
> lost.
> 
> 
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Solutions Manager
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
> 
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
> 
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Do you run an OSGeo committe or chapter?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

We are setting up a contact list on the wiki, inventorying all the various 
committees and local chapters.

Pls take a minute to review this wiki page and make any additions you see fit:

  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Contacts

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Comments on Sierra Club v. Orange Country court case?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Reminder:  if you have comments on the Sierra Club, open-records, 
is-data-software court case, please get them in to me this week.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:20 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions (discuss@lists.osgeo.org)
> Subject: formal request for endorement of amicus on Sierra Club v. Orange 
> Country court case
> 
> OSGeo folk:
> 
> I'm formally requesting that OSGeo endorse the amicus ("friend of the court") 
> brief being submitted by the Sierra Club to the
> California Supreme Court.  This case covers significant interest to our 
> community, including the definition of GIS data and the public's
> right to access open records.
> 
> The amicus letter can be found at [1].  More details on the case can be found 
> on our wiki at [2].
> 
> If you have any thoughts on this matter -- pro or con -- please reply to the 
> list or to me.
> 
> 
> Following the protocol given in [3], discussion of this issue will take place 
> on this mailing list until January 26th.  At that time, I will
> collect the community's responses and submit them to the Board for discussion 
> at our next meeting on February 4th.
> 
> 
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/File:OrangeCountry_amicus_letter.pdf
> [2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OrangeCounty_Amicus
> [3] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Protocol_for_requesting_letter_of_support
> 
> -mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] formal request for endorement of amicus on Sierra Club v. Orange Country court case

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Milo-

 

A good point, and one that I did give some thought to.  But I think using the 
international parent organization is the right choice in this case for these 
reasons:

 

* There is already precedent for having OSGeo doing such letters of support and 
memoranda of understanding (MOUs) for non-international issues.

* Local chapters are welcome  to add their support as well [hey, Landon!].

* This is an important US case; the US has a long history of open data and 
public access, and [like it or not] policies of the US tend to influence other 
nations.

 

-mpg

 

 

 

 

From: Milo van der Linden [mailto:m...@dogodigi.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 1:57 AM
To: m...@flaxen.com; OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] formal request for endorement of amicus on Sierra 
Club v. Orange Country court case

 

I think it is a national matter and osgeo.org is an international organization. 
We had our share of open (geo)data issues in the Netherlands too and I have 
donated and supported to several local initiatives trying to force more 
openness from official bodies, but I think it might be better if osgeo.org 
would not step up directly but through local chapters or groups.

Op 21 jan. 2012 21:20 schreef "Michael P. Gerlek"  het 
volgende:

OSGeo folk:

I'm formally requesting that OSGeo endorse the amicus ("friend of the court") 
brief being submitted by the Sierra Club to the California Supreme Court.  This 
case covers significant interest to our community, including the definition of 
GIS data and the public's right to access open records.

The amicus letter can be found at [1].  More details on the case can be found 
on our wiki at [2].

If you have any thoughts on this matter -- pro or con -- please reply to the 
list or to me.


Following the protocol given in [3], discussion of this issue will take place 
on this mailing list until January 26th.  At that time, I will collect the 
community's responses and submit them to the Board for discussion at our next 
meeting on February 4th.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/File:OrangeCountry_amicus_letter.pdf
[2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OrangeCounty_Amicus
[3] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Protocol_for_requesting_letter_of_support

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] formal request for endorement of amicus on Sierra Club v. Orange Country court case

[Michael P. Gerlek]

OSGeo folk:

I'm formally requesting that OSGeo endorse the amicus ("friend of the court") 
brief being submitted by the Sierra Club to the California Supreme Court.  This 
case covers significant interest to our community, including the definition of 
GIS data and the public's right to access open records.

The amicus letter can be found at [1].  More details on the case can be found 
on our wiki at [2].

If you have any thoughts on this matter -- pro or con -- please reply to the 
list or to me.


Following the protocol given in [3], discussion of this issue will take place 
on this mailing list until January 26th.  At that time, I will collect the 
community's responses and submit them to the Board for discussion at our next 
meeting on February 4th.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/File:OrangeCountry_amicus_letter.pdf
[2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OrangeCounty_Amicus
[3] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Protocol_for_requesting_letter_of_support

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: [Board] Fwd: Request for your endorsement of GIS Amicus Letter re: Sierra Club v Orange County

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm covering this for the Board, and in the next few days I will be putting out 
a formal motion for OSGeo to endorse it.

 

-mpg

 

From: board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:board-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On 
Behalf Of David William Bitner
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:50 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Cc: OSGeo-Board List
Subject: [Board] Fwd: Request for your endorsement of GIS Amicus Letter re: 
Sierra Club v Orange County

 

Dear OSGeo friends,

 

As has been discussed earlier on this list, the Sierra Club's case against 
Orange County to try to open up county parcel basemap data under California 
data practices laws is heading to the CA Supreme Court. Bruce Joffe has drafted 
an Amicus Letter in support of the Sierra Club. I encourage the GIS 
professionals on this list to consider individual support of this effort and 
ask the Board to consider signing this letter as an organization.

 

Thank you,

 

David Bitner

-- Forwarded message --
From: Bruce Joffe 
Date: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:22 PM
Subject: Request for your endorsement of GIS Amicus Letter re: Sierra Club v 
Orange County
To: apa...@wakegov.com, bill.mo...@townofcary.org, bit...@dbspatial.com, 
bra...@co.thurston.wa.us, bspat...@together.net, chris.woodw...@state.co.us, 
chr...@zwebdesign.com, chuck.drin...@ewam-associates.com, 
craig.par...@sbcglobal.net, cwo...@dhs.ca.gov, dia...@ci.fullerton.ca.us, 
dmur...@ci.westminster.co.us, e...@msi.ic.ucsb.edu, g...@onda.org, 
haydee.dabr...@cdph.ca.gov, jsack...@selcnc.org, jwhi...@stanford.edu, 
l...@calmail.berkeley.edu, l...@berkeley.edu, lbl...@ksninc.com, 
sunburned.surve...@redefinedhorizons.com, leanne.les...@colorado.edu, 
leebe...@earthsystems.net, li...@prev.org



Dear Friends,
You have been stalwart supporters, advocating for our principles on 
this important issue of vital concern to our GIS community.  I thank you for 
sending me your pre-endorsement of this GIS Amicus Letter, and hope you will 
now co-sign this version as an individual, and perhaps also representing your 
own organization. 

You may pass this request along to other potential supporters.
Thank you,
Bruce


Dear Colleague,

I'm sure you know that Sierra Club is in the final phase of contest against 
Orange County for access to its GIS-compatible parcel basemap.  This case will 
determine the applicability of the CA Public Records Act to GIS-based data.  

Although Orange County prevailed in the Trial Court, and again in the Court of 
Appeals, the case has been accepted for final resolution by the California 
Supreme Court.  

I count you among the overwhelming majority of GIS professionals who support 
Sierra Club's lawsuit because you support unfettered access to our governments' 
geodata.  Now is your opportunity to influence the outcome of the case by 
adding your name to the GIS Community Amicus Letter (attached) that will be 
sent to the Court.  The letter explains several GIS technicalities to the Court 
and refutes misinformation proffered by Orange County.  A large preponderance 
of signatures will help convince the Court that OC's arguments do not represent 
the normal standard of GIS professional knowledge and practice.  

Please send me an email indicating your endorsement of the Amicus Letter, and I 
will add your name as a co-signer.  
 *   You may co-sign as an individual. 
 Please indicate your "title" and professional affiliation for 
reference purposes.  (The letter makes it clear that individuals' signatures 
does not imply endorsement of their reference organization.)

IN ADDITION
 *   Please encourage your professional organizations to endorse 
this Amicus Letter as an organization.  Organizational endorsement makes a big 
impression!
 *   Please ask your employer to endorse as well, if appropriate.

The Amicus Letter must be sent by February 24, so please send me your 
endorsement as soon as you can.

With Anticipatory Thanks,
Bruce

  _  

Bruce Joffe, GISP
Organizer, Open Data Consortium project
c/o GIS Consultants
902 Rose Ave.
Piedmont, CA  94611
510-508-0213 
gis.consulta...@joffes.com

  _  


P.S.   ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

I have sent out Amicus endorsement requests before.  Previously:
 83 people and organizations co-signed a GIS Amicus Letter asking the 
Supreme Court to review this case ... and the Court agreed.
 77 people and organizations co-signed a GIS Amicus Letter asking the 
Court of Appeal to force Santa Clara County to provide its geodata under terms 
of the PRA ... and the Court agreed.  
 65 people and organizations co-signed a request to the CA Attorney 
General to determine whether "Parcel boundary map data maintained by a county 
in electronic format is subject to public inspection and copying under 
provisions of the California Public Records Act." ... and the AG concurred.

Our Amicus Letter mig

[OSGeo-Discuss] Student funding available for OSGeo codesprint next month!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

** Please forward this email to any students or others who might be interested. 
**

Through the generosity of our sponsors -- especially our gold-level sponsor 
Mobile Geographics -- we have funding available for a qualified student (or 
currently unemployed programmer) to come to Seattle for next month's codesprint.

To apply for the funding, send email to m...@flaxen.com with a short (250 words 
max) statement explaining what open source projects you have contributed to and 
why you want to come to the sprint.  Extra credit if you can get someone else 
from the OSGeo community to recommend you to me.

The amount of funding available will cover at least the registration fee 
(lodging/meals), and possibly some travel expenses as well.  (Please include in 
your email where you would be travelling from.)

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IslandWood_Code_Sprint_2012

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] The amicus curiae brief in the Orange County, California public records / geo data court case

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I've volunteered to take point on this issue and do the homework, as a first 
step towards bringing to the Board for approval.

I've started a wiki page listing some reading material about the case:

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OrangeCounty_Amicus

If anyone has any opinions about the issue (either pro or con!), please email 
me or email the list or add to the wiki.

-mpg





> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Dan Putler
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:08 AM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] The amicus curiae brief in the Orange County, 
> California public records / geo data court case
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been in contact with Bruce Joffe who has been working on an amicus
> curiae ("friend of the court") brief associated with two court decisions
> that have gone in completely opposite directions in California, one
> involving Santa Clara County and the other involving Orange County. The
> legal point is the same in both cases, is GIS data (parcel data in
> particular) data or is it software? If it is data, then it is covered
> under the California Public Records Act, requiring that it be released
> to the public for reproduction costs, if it is software, it isn't
> covered, and is subject to licensing fees. The judge in the Santa Clara
> County case (correctly) determined it was data, while the judge in the
> Orange County case (incorrectly) determined it was software. The case is
> now heading to the California Supreme Court, and Bruce Joffe is rounding
> up potential individuals and organizations to sign on to the amicus
> curiae brief. More details about the situation was posted on the
> Directions Magazine daily newsletter on Wednesday. Here is the link to
> the article:
> http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/sierra-club-vs-orange-county-pra-lawsuit-update-december-10-2011/219926
> 
> My main purpose for posting this information to this list is to
> determine if there is some mechanism by which the Open Geospatial
> Foundation can be listed as one of the supporting parties in the amicus
> curiae brief. I don't know if there is a mechanism for approving this,
> but this seems like an issue that we should have a strong interest in.
> 
> Dan
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2011 Charter Member Election Results

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Nicolas:

 

This is a great idea.  Could you please start by stubbing out a wiki page for 
this, and then others can add onto it?

 

-mpg

 

 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of nicolas bozon
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:56 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2011 Charter Member Election Results

 

Hello all,

As a fresh new charter member, i was precisely wondering if some guidelines for 
charter membership were available somewhere. I was about to ask in fact, when 
this thread came up.
I knew that voting was one of the duties, but thought that some others may 
exist.
According to me, charter members should also dynamise and promote their 
respective (and/or prefered) local chapter as much as possible.
That would be nice if some experienced charter members could start such 
guidelines on the wiki or elsewhere where a kind of brainstorming  could occur 
on that topic.
My 2 cents
Thanks

Nick

2011/12/3 Mateusz Łoskot 

On 2 December 2011 16:30, Dave McIlhagga  wrote:
> I would suggest that on the contrary, being a Charter Member does come with
> responsibility -- it may be minimal but is critically important. All that is 
> required is
>voting for new Charter Members and voting for the Board.
>
> Assuming, reasonable efforts have been made to be in touch with Charter 
> Members,
> I think it's actually important to purge those who don't take this 
> responsibility
>seriously. I would suggest it's a necessary part of preserving the integrity 
>of the organization.
>
> Keep in mind, for many OSGeo is not just a past-time - it's a vested
> part of our institutions, businesses, and people.

I support Dave's opinion here.

OSGeo has no resources for mothering its Charter Members.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org
Member of ACCU, http://accu.org

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Charter member nominees -- where are you? Please speak up!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I just went back through my mail, and as near as I can tell it looks like only 
4 of 34 nominees have actually taken the time to post a note here saying who 
they are and/or why they should be elected.

This confuses me.  Am I missing something?

I recognize some people aren't into self-promotion, but if you're not willing 
to advocate for yourself and our cause in a friendly forum like this, then I 
have to wonder if being a charter member is that important to you, and if you'd 
be a good spokesperson and champion of OSGeo.

(I realize that English is not the language of choice for many of the nominees; 
that's fine, please feel free to post in your own native language, and I'll 
happily take the effort to run it through a translator!)

Thanks to Cepicky, Di Leo, Ferrer, Woodbridge, and Basques for speaking up.  I 
sincerely hope I didn't miss anyone else.

_mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Charter nominees -- please speak up!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

There are many nominees this year!  And since we have such an international 
slate this year, I expect many of us are in the position I'm in: I don't 
recognize the names of many of them, much less know of them at least by 
reputation.

If you are a nominee, please consider posting a short statement about yourself 
and why you think you would be a good representative for OSGeo.

You could post to the official nomination wiki page 
(http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/New_Member_Nominations_2011) or to this discuss 
list (which always is good to generate some discussion on these sorts of 
issues), or perhaps both.

I'm going to hold off on my vote until close to the deadline, so that I have a 
chance to hear from many of these great candidates...

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] 2012 North American OSGeo Codesprint - sign up now!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

The fourth annual North American codesprint is only 3 months away!

** Space is limited, so you need to register in advance.  **

The sprint will be February 5-9, 2012, at IslandWood -- a small retreat center 
in the Pacific Northwest.  This sprint has always attracted a great mix of 
people from a number of different OSGeo-related projects, and it serves as a 
great opportunity for some dedicated face time for project collaboration, from 
bug stomping to future release planning.

If you're a developer on an open source geospatial project, please consider 
coming to the codesprint.  You'll have some dedicated development time for 
yourself, you'll be abel to work with others on your projects, and you'll have 
a chance to interact with key developers from other projects.  All in the woods 
on a small island in the Puget Sound.

Wiki page:  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IslandWood_Code_Sprint_2012
Contact: email m...@flaxen.com for more info or to register.

-mpg


"The Annual North American OSGeo Codesprint: iIt's just like the FOSS4G 
conference, but without all the bothersome presentations and workshops."


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Report from the OSGeo Board meeting

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Puneet wrote:

> However,
> please don't lump outreach there. Outreach is what we all do on a daily
basis

Good point, yes.  I was trying for a short email, and maybe I made it too
short.

There are many different kinds of outreach, and many of us who are active in
OSGeo do "outreach" as part of our daily activities.  The kind of outreach I
was referring to in that part of email, the "strategic" bit, was really
aimed at getting large companies and government bodies on board with us: I
think you would agree that often requires specific background and skills.  A
good example of this is Mark Lucas' work with the US DoD community (see his
email this morning).

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Report from the OSGeo Board meeting

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Arnulf and Frank have already spoken up, and I think they've captured the
sentiment of Sunday's board decision well.

To emphasize three points, if I may:

* Our foundation has been financially backed by a small set of donors and
the FOSS4G conference.  We have lost ground on former source, and the latter
source has proven to be extremely volatile.  From a business standpoint,
this is not a sustainable path. The ED has been the single largest financial
cost to the foundation, and so given our current funding model, the cost for
the functions performed wasn't justified.

* I wrote recently that there three kinds of functions needed here:
administrative (bookkeeping, answering mail, etc), tactical (project
management, sys admin), and strategic (fundraising, outreach).  The first
can be done by a mixture of outsourcing and volunteers, and we're already
taking steps for that.  The second is done already by very competent
volunteers.  The third requires a very specific set of skills we will likely
hire or contract out for; in the near term, the board and other non-board
volunteers will shoulder this (as they have been doing for years, though
often unacknowledged).  This will be an evolving process, of course, and the
discussion with the community is now underway.

* There is considerable difficulty in discussing personnel matters with the
community.  Some board members have discussed these matters with other
individuals privately, both proactively and reactively, to consider the
foundation's positions and options.  However, those were private
discussions: the board cannot discuss personnel issues on a public mailing
list.  I'm sure you all can appreciate that.

Thanks -

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Travel Hints

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I've added a cab-share signup section.

-mpg



> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Morissette
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 2:52 PM
> To: OSGEO discuss
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Travel Hints
> 
> We collected and started sharing a bit of info that could be useful for
people
> traveling to Denver for FOSS4G:
> 
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2011_Travel_Hints
> 
> At the moment the most interesting info is about cell phone roaming
options
> and affordable prepaid SIM cards in the US (now I know I got your
> attention!).
> 
> Please go ahead and share any hints you may have on other travel related
> questions.
> 
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> Provider of Professional MapServer Support since 2000
> 
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Need graphic arts help for IslandWood codesprint handout

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm trying to make a one-page advert/flyer/handout for the IslandWood
sprint, to be handed out in Denver next week... 

I know the content that has to be included, but my design skillz are totally
not up to it and it looks like a fourth-grade science fair poster.

Anyone out there got the talents and a few hours to contribute to this
worthy effort?  (I'll give you all the credits you want...)

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] North America (Seattle) codesprint -- last chance to save it!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

If I was on the board (ahem), I'd be in favor working on such an idea.  For
small gatherings like this, the amount at risk is relatively low - under
$10K, not the huge amount that, say, FOSS4G requires.

 

-mpg

 

 

 

From: Daniel Kastl [mailto:dan...@georepublic.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:10 PM
To: m...@flaxen.com; OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] North America (Seattle) codesprint -- last
chance to save it!

 

Without being able to attend a code sprint in Seattle, I would like to ask,
if this isn't something OSGeo Foundation would be able to cover the risks
for. In my opinion this is one of the events OSGeo could support, because it
has a high impact on its projects.

Leaving such a risk on individuals is likely to make this kind of events
difficult to organize.

 

Daniel

 

 

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Michael P. Gerlek  wrote:

The goal of hosting the 2012 North American code sprint here in Seattle is,
unfortunately, almost dead.

To date I have received almost $4K in sponsorship money -- thank you to
Airborne Interactive, Anonymous/CUGOS, Development Seed, and LizardTech! --
and almost $4K in the form of seven registrations from individuals.

However, this doesn't get us to the $12K needed to reserve the facilities
and minimize my risk of defaulting.

If you are interested in attending and can pay the $525 fee (registration +
lodging + meals) in advance, please contact me.

I will try to drum up some more interest down in Denver next month, but the
longer we wait the higher the chance the facility won't be available
anymore.  After FOSS4G, if we haven't raised enough funds, I'll be refunding
the sponsorship and registration monies.

Details on the event can be found here:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IslandWood_Code_Sprint_2011.  Thanks!

-mpg


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-- 
Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail:  <mailto:daniel.ka...@georepublic.de> daniel.ka...@georepublic.de
Web:  <http://georepublic.de/> http://georepublic.de

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[OSGeo-Discuss] North America (Seattle) codesprint -- last chance to save it!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

The goal of hosting the 2012 North American code sprint here in Seattle is,
unfortunately, almost dead.

To date I have received almost $4K in sponsorship money -- thank you to
Airborne Interactive, Anonymous/CUGOS, Development Seed, and LizardTech! --
and almost $4K in the form of seven registrations from individuals.

However, this doesn't get us to the $12K needed to reserve the facilities
and minimize my risk of defaulting.

If you are interested in attending and can pay the $525 fee (registration +
lodging + meals) in advance, please contact me.

I will try to drum up some more interest down in Denver next month, but the
longer we wait the higher the chance the facility won't be available
anymore.  After FOSS4G, if we haven't raised enough funds, I'll be refunding
the sponsorship and registration monies.

Details on the event can be found here:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IslandWood_Code_Sprint_2011.  Thanks!

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Michael Gerlek to OSGeo Board 2011

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I've now posted my candidate statement here:

  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2011#Michael_Gerlek

Thanks again for your consideration.

-mpg



> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:m...@flaxen.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:03 AM
> To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
> Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Michael Gerlek to OSGeo Board
> 2011
> 
> I'm on vacation right now, so this will have to be short -- I'll write 
> something
> more up when I get home in a few days, but for now let me just make some
> bullet points:
> 
> * Thank you to Aaron for the nomination.  It's a privilege to be nominated,
> and doubly so to be in company of so many other nominees.
> 
> * In addition to the stuff Aaron lists below, I'm working with Howard Butler
> the PDAL (nee libLAS) project for lidar and point cloud support.  It's not a
> formal OSGeo project today, but as it matures it will hopefully become one
> someday.
> 
> * I also worked at LizardTech for a decade, where I championed LizardTech's
> open source initiatives, including bringing open source libraries into their
> projects, financially sponsoring OSGeo annually, and rewriting the licenses
> for their closed-source libraries to be freely distributable within the open
> source world.
> 
> * I know of nothing seriously "broken" within OSGeo today that I want to
> charge right in and start fixing.  Tyler and the board members have done well
> over the past five years.  However, there are two areas I’d like to focus 
> on...
> 
> * First, as Aaron notes below, I'm one of the folks who runs our local 
> chapter.
> We've got a great group that meets monthly, and we've been able to put on
> some great activities -- such as arranging to give talks and panels at local
> conferences, and putting on our own day-long workshop/conference/sprint
> at a local university that was attended by many, many people.  I'd like to see
> the board be proactive in getting more local chapters organized and running,
> as this sort of grass roots work at the individual level is often the best 
> way to
> introduce people to open source and open data.  I've got some ideas on how
> we could help jump-start things.
> 
> * Second, I had the good fortune to serve as editor for the "Open Sources"
> column in GeoConnexions magazine.  We produced two dozen columns over
> two years, all contributed by members of the OSGeo community, covering
> everything from libraries and apps to open data and open curricula.  I have
> also just started a smaller, similar column for the Lidar News magazine.
> OSGeo should work with the media in our industry to identify more
> opportunities like this.  Publishers always want quality content, it's 
> something
> we can provide for little direct financial cost, and it is a good way to get 
> our
> message out and seed development of other marketing-like content.
> 
> Thanks for considering me for the board!
> 
> -mpg
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Racicot
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:22 PM
> To: discuss
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Michael Gerlek to OSGeo Board
> 2011
> 
> I would like to take this opportunity to nominate Michael Gerlek for the
> OSGeo Board.  Michael (known to many as MPG) has been an active member
> of the OSGeo community from the very first planning meetings in 2006.
> He has been a Charter member of OSGeo since 2006 and has actively
> participated in many functions of OSGeo including leading the Visibility
> committee.  Michael also co-founded CUGOS, the regional OSGeo chapter in
> the Pacific Northwest.  He is actively involved in many open source GIS
> projects, and now dedicates himself to full time consulting work in the open
> source GIS space through his company Flaxen Geo Consulting.  He has a long
> history in participating with the OGC and could bring unique experience in
> that arena to the board.  Most importantly his participation in the OSGeo
> board would bring great industry insight, leadership experience, and a true
> dedication to furthering the OSGeo mission.  I strongly encourage the OSGeo
> community to consider Michael as a valuable addition to the board and the
> OSGeo family.
> 
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/User:Mpg
> 
> Thanks for your consideration.
> 
> Aaron
> 
> --
> Aaron Racicot
> Z-Pulley Inc.
> aar...@z-pulley.com
> 360-221-2441
> 
> 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Michael Gerlek to OSGeo Board 2011

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm on vacation right now, so this will have to be short -- I'll write 
something more up when I get home in a few days, but for now let me just make 
some bullet points:

* Thank you to Aaron for the nomination.  It's a privilege to be nominated, and 
doubly so to be in company of so many other nominees.

* In addition to the stuff Aaron lists below, I'm working with Howard Butler 
the PDAL (nee libLAS) project for lidar and point cloud support.  It's not a 
formal OSGeo project today, but as it matures it will hopefully become one 
someday.

* I also worked at LizardTech for a decade, where I championed LizardTech's 
open source initiatives, including bringing open source libraries into their 
projects, financially sponsoring OSGeo annually, and rewriting the licenses for 
their closed-source libraries to be freely distributable within the open source 
world.

* I know of nothing seriously "broken" within OSGeo today that I want to charge 
right in and start fixing.  Tyler and the board members have done well over the 
past five years.  However, there are two areas I’d like to focus on...

* First, as Aaron notes below, I'm one of the folks who runs our local chapter. 
 We've got a great group that meets monthly, and we've been able to put on some 
great activities -- such as arranging to give talks and panels at local 
conferences, and putting on our own day-long workshop/conference/sprint at a 
local university that was attended by many, many people.  I'd like to see the 
board be proactive in getting more local chapters organized and running, as 
this sort of grass roots work at the individual level is often the best way to 
introduce people to open source and open data.  I've got some ideas on how we 
could help jump-start things.

* Second, I had the good fortune to serve as editor for the "Open Sources" 
column in GeoConnexions magazine.  We produced two dozen columns over two 
years, all contributed by members of the OSGeo community, covering everything 
from libraries and apps to open data and open curricula.  I have also just 
started a smaller, similar column for the Lidar News magazine.  OSGeo should 
work with the media in our industry to identify more opportunities like this.  
Publishers always want quality content, it's something we can provide for 
little direct financial cost, and it is a good way to get our message out and 
seed development of other marketing-like content.

Thanks for considering me for the board!

-mpg



-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Aaron Racicot
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:22 PM
To: discuss
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Nomination for Michael Gerlek to OSGeo Board 2011

I would like to take this opportunity to nominate Michael Gerlek for the OSGeo 
Board.  Michael (known to many as MPG) has been an active member of the OSGeo 
community from the very first planning meetings in 2006.
He has been a Charter member of OSGeo since 2006 and has actively participated 
in many functions of OSGeo including leading the Visibility committee.  Michael 
also co-founded CUGOS, the regional OSGeo chapter in the Pacific Northwest.  He 
is actively involved in many open source GIS projects, and now dedicates 
himself to full time consulting work in the open source GIS space through his 
company Flaxen Geo Consulting.  He has a long history in participating with the 
OGC and could bring unique experience in that arena to the board.  Most 
importantly his participation in the OSGeo board would bring great industry 
insight, leadership experience, and a true dedication to furthering the OSGeo 
mission.  I strongly encourage the OSGeo community to consider Michael as a 
valuable addition to the board and the OSGeo family.

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/User:Mpg

Thanks for your consideration.

Aaron

--
Aaron Racicot
Z-Pulley Inc.
aar...@z-pulley.com
360-221-2441


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] format for raster data distribution, JP2?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Well, you've covered most of the tradeoffs - proprietary/open, general
availability, etc.  At the end of the day, it's hard to beat compressed
TIFFs.  (lzw-compressed TIFFs are nice too - maybe a bit less supported than
jpeg-compressed, but no quality loss)

 

-mpg

 

 

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of John Callahan
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:59 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions; qgis-u...@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] format for raster data distribution, JP2?

 

I'm looking for advice on sharing raster data for download.  We distribute
several raster datasets such as DEMs and orthophotography.  Sometimes these
are divided into rectangular tiles, sometimes by geography/boundaries.  Most
of our audience has some level of GIS or CAD experience. We also have WMS
services but there are many times where people need the actual data files.

I had been creating JP2 files using JP2ECW compression.  Great file size
reduction with very good quality. However, I'm thinking it may be difficult
for people to view these (and more difficult for me to create) due to the
restrictions on the codec distribution.  The other JP2 options, OpenJPEG and
libjasper, seems like they also require users to obtain this codec/driver
and install into the software first.   Same for the commercial Kakadu and
MrSID.  netCDF is great but not widely supported; IMG are good but not any
advantage over TIFs (except for > 4 GB file sizes)

Since I want to serve the widest possible audience (and not cater only to
our Windows/ArcGIS audience), I'm down to serving TIFs with JPEG compression
at around quality=75, which is what I started with years ago!  Good quality,
decent compression, wide support.   Is this the best bet?   Is there
something else out there I'm overlooking?

- John

***
John Callahan, Research Scientist
Delaware Geological Survey
University of Delaware
URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu
***

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[OSGeo-Discuss] IslandWood 2012 codesprint - Registration open!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

The 4th annual North American OSGeo codesprint is scheduled for February 5-9
of 2012, on a small island near Seattle.

Full details on the event are available here:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IslandWood_Code_Sprint_2012

We are now accepting registrations at $525/person.  Space is limited, so
book early!

Corporate sponsorships ($750 minimum) help pay the costs this event, and I
am very pleased to announce that the event already has $3750 pledged in
sponsorship..  But we still need more! If you'd like to be a sponsor, we'd
love to have you, and in return we can promise lots of sincere thank you's
and favorable mentions in blog posts about the sprint.


Checks should be made payable to CUGOS and sent to
Michael P. Gerlek
12167 Pleasant Place NE
Bainbridge Island, WA 98110
USA


Please forward this to anyone you might think be interested.

We hope you can join us!

-mpg & the CUGOS gang

Michael P. Gerlek
Flaxen Geo Consulting
m...@flaxen.com


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Planning begins for the 2012 North American code sprint

[Michael P. Gerlek]

This mail is to announce the start of planning / early call for
participation for the 4th annual OSGeo North American code sprint.  Held in
previous years in Toronto, New York City, and Montreal, we are proposing to
hold the next event in Jan-Mar of 2012 on a small island near Seattle.

Unlike previous years, this event will not be downtown in a major city with
the sprint and dining venues clustered in an urban neighborhood.  Instead,
we're proposing to hold it on Bainbridge Island at a place called IslandWood
-- "a unique 255-acre outdoor learning center designed to provide
exceptional learning experiences and inspire life-long environmental and
community stewardship" (see http://islandwood.org/conferences).
 
The event would be different from previous years in that we would be staying
on-campus the whole time (lodging, eating, working).  This would change the
dynamics a bit, but I think for the better.  This will also change the cost
model for the event, too: it is likely to be more expensive, and people will
need to register (and pay) in advance, although we would still intend to
have sponsors help cover costs.
 
If you're interested, please subscribe to the tosprint list
(http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/tosprint) and voice your support
for this plan (or not...).  I will use that list to provide more details
(esp. pricing, which I should have in a few days).

-mpg


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Media Sponsorship

[Michael P. Gerlek]

+1 here too.

I like the idea of providing an avenue for us to pitch articles, etc.  I
know that in principle anyone can submit a piece to most of the industry
pubs, but in practice the editors tend to favor those they have a
pre-existing relationship with.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Seven (aka Arnulf)
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 1:09 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Media Sponsorship
> 
> On 06/09/2011 10:35 PM, Tyler Mitchell wrote:
> > Hi everybody, I've been working on an idea to start a Media
> > Sponsorship opportunity for OSGeo.  We already do this same idea for
> > FOSS4G each year, so why not try it for the organisation in general?
> >
> > I already know of a few media companies that would be interested in:
> > * providing $x worth of advertising for OSGeo * in exchange for being
> > listed as a Media Sponsor
> >
> > This is also a great way to keep communication open so, for example,
> > OSGeo members can write articles for these companies, we can get our
> > press releases easily, we can have our logo front and centre, etc.
> >
> > Note, I'm not proposing an in-kind sponsorship position, but one with
> > real $ values tied to the arrangement (likely $10k spread over a
> > year).
> >
> > Putting the idea out there - what do you think?  Thumbs up or down?
> > Think of any ways to make it more enticing?
> >
> > Tyler
> 
> Tyler,
> this sounds like a good idea, nothing to add from my side.
> 
> Best regards,
> Arnulf
> 
> 
> --
> Exploring Space, Time and Mind
> http://arnulf.us
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Finding position based on horizon profile?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Well, yes, I did do that first and have some angles on the more conventional
aspects of this, e.g. missile guidance.  Being new to this area, though, I
thought I'd put out a query to see what else might turn up in the open
source realm (pure R&D being one thing; hackable code is something quite
different sometimes).

[that said, sometimes it's hard to even frame the right questions when one
is in a brand new area..]

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen Woodbridge [mailto:wood...@swoodbridge.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:16 PM
> To: m...@flaxen.com; OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Finding position based on horizon profile?
> 
> On 3/28/2011 4:48 PM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > Consider the following hypothetical problem:
> >
> > Assume we have a good elevation data set for a large region of the
> > earth -- say, an entire mountain range.  Now let's say we have a
> > photograph taken from the ground, the horizon of which shows the
> > profile of a couple of the mountains in that range.  Can you tell me
> > where the photograph was taken from?
> >
> > Any pointers to research in this area would be appreciated.
> 
> Micheal,
> 
> Does this help?
> http://www.google.com/#q=matching++"terrain+profile";
> 
> -Steve

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Finding position based on horizon profile?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Consider the following hypothetical problem:

Assume we have a good elevation data set for a large region of the earth --
say, an entire mountain range.  Now let's say we have a photograph taken
from the ground, the horizon of which shows the profile of a couple of the
mountains in that range.  Can you tell me where the photograph was taken
from?

Any pointers to research in this area would be appreciated.

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Jobs list

[Michael P. Gerlek]

A gentle, periodic reminder: OSGeo has a "jobs" mailing list!

You can post there if you...:

  - want a new job
  - trying to hire someone for a job  - 
  - are searching for a contractor or consultant
  - want to find work as a consultant or contractor
  - have opportunities for graduate students
  - etc

As long as it is "job" related and pertains to OSGeo's charter, it's fair
game.

This is a moderated, very low-volume list, so subscribing wont' cause undue
stress on your inbox.

You can sign up (or view the archives) here:
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

-mpg, and the osgeo-jobs list team


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] not spam :)

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Happy birthday to all of you!

-mpg, who was happy to be able to attend on that Chicago day five years ago


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:38 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] not spam :)
> 
> Oh darn, they put a silly subject line :)  Believe it or not, this is not
SPAM...
> much tastier!
> 
> On 2011-02-03, at 9:35 AM, Tyler Mitchell wrote:
> 
> >
> > My 2 minutes cake decorating.  You can better, I challenge you!! :)
> >
> > Tyler
> >
> > To check the card, click here:
> >
> > http://www.theoworlds.com/birthday/index.php?CardID=146004
> >
> > ---
> > TheoWorlds.com - make your message fun!
> > Flash games, e-cards, applications...
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
> ___
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Charter Member Nomination

[Michael P. Gerlek]

[disclaimer: I'm the one who nominated Dan]

Having admired MapWindow from afar from some time, I had the opportunity to 
spend a couple days with Dan and his team a few months ago and came away very 
impressed.  Dan is doing a great job in bringing C#/.NET into the OSGeo world 
via the DotSpatial world, what with bringing a whole library into play and 
running a conference and yet still pursuing a geo research job.

A vote for Dan is a vote for...  oh, gosh, I dunno...  It's a vote to add a 
Third Way[1] to the C++ -vs- Java intertribal dialogs?  Something like that.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way_%28centrism%29

-mpg

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Daniel Ames
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:22 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Charter Member Nomination

Hi all, I appreciate being nominated as an OSGeo Charter Member. I've been 
participating with OSGeo since the 2006 Lausanne conference and am regularly 
involved in the edu committee and newsletter/journal committee. I've funded 
sponsorship at Lausanne, Sydney and Capetown and am always giving OSGeo pitches 
at other conferences I attend. Presently I'm helping lead the OSGeo DotNet 
programmer community including setting up the OSGeo DotNet mailing list, and 
helping kick off a new project of OSGeo DotNet programmers called DotSpatial 
(an API that brings together topology, visualization, data access, etc for the 
DotNet world). In addition to the DotSpatial project (by the way you can find 
it at http://dotspatial.codeplex.com) I manage the open source MapWindow 
project (http://mapwindow.org) which some of you may have heard of. I'd be 
happy to participate more fully with OSGeo through Charter Membership.

(P.S. I'm also organizing the 2011 MapWindow and OSGeo DotNet Conference in San 
Diego, California in June 2011. Please consider coming!!! See 
http://www.mapwindow.org/conference/2011/)

- Dan

--
Daniel P. Ames, Ph.D. PE
Associate Professor, Geosciences
Idaho State University - Idaho Falls
amesd...@isu.edu
geology.isu.edu
www.mapwindow.org

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Charter member candidates, pls step forward!

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Those of you who've been nominated, feel free to announce yourselves with a few 
immodestly chosen lines about why we should vote for you!

There are a lot of seemingly good candidates, but not enough votes to go 
around...

-mpg


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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: "GRASS not in demand, says PennState"

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I just read part two of this Q&A article, which also has some bearing on this 
audience:

> Q: Most of the jobs I've seen require 3-5 years of GIS work experience to 
> apply. How do I get those first 3-5 years?
> A: Direct contact with potential employers and internship opportunities.

Hey, kids: hanging out in the open source ecosystem is also a great way to get 
experience!

I would love to see new college grad resumes that list a whole bunch of classes 
BUT also include lines like "the X project website contains two tutorials I 
wrote" or "submitted a patch to the X project which was included in their 1.2 
release".

-mpg



> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 2:25 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions (discuss@lists.osgeo.org)
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] "GRASS not in demand, says PennState"
> 
> Directions Magazine just published a Q&A about the state of geospatial jobs
> and occupations with some folks from Penn State in which this question
> appeared:
> 
> > Are you seeing positions requiring knowledge of open source software
> such as GRASS?
> 
> Two of the panelists answered.  One said
> 
> > More generally, the ability to create custom software solutions - whether
> proprietary or open source or a combination of the two - is in high demand.
> 
> which is a good, healthy response.  But the other said
> 
> > Not seeing positions posted with GRASS.
> 
> which is disappointing of course, but probably not surprising.  Would have
> been interesting to see if any other open source keywords (qgis?
> mapserver? Osm?) ever got any hits with them.
> 
> 
> http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/geospatial-occupations-qa-part-one
> 
> -mpg
> 
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[OSGeo-Discuss] "GRASS not in demand, says PennState"

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Directions Magazine just published a Q&A about the state of geospatial jobs and 
occupations with some folks from Penn State in which this question appeared:

> Are you seeing positions requiring knowledge of open source software such as 
> GRASS?

Two of the panelists answered.  One said

> More generally, the ability to create custom software solutions - whether 
> proprietary or open source or a combination of the two - is in high demand.

which is a good, healthy response.  But the other said

> Not seeing positions posted with GRASS.

which is disappointing of course, but probably not surprising.  Would have been 
interesting to see if any other open source keywords (qgis? mapserver? Osm?) 
ever got any hits with them.


http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/geospatial-occupations-qa-part-one

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but if we could just get enough people to all submit data for 
their own local areas using arbitrary free-form textual tags and maybe provide 
a voting mechanism for the best submissions, then we could...

Oh, wait -- never mind.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:19 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

"All attempts to construct simple ontologies end up reinventing RDF" .. ?

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Christopher Schmidt  
wrote:

> How about the fact that although some counties contain cities, some 
> cities exist over the border between multiple counties, and other 
> counties are *contained* by cities? (Queens, Manhattan, etc.)
>
> How about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysart_et_al,_Ontario?
>
> Any effort to turn the real world into a standard hierarchy will fail, 
> because the world is Fuzzier than you realize.
>
> -- Chris
>
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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> ...it would be easy to determine what the URL for...

Alas, it is not clear to me that, even within the US, there is a universally 
recognized canonicalization of the place name hierarchy, much less the names 
themselves.

For example, you refer to "california", as opposed to "state_of_california", 
and yet you refer to "city of stockton" as opposed to "stockton".  Further, 
strictly speaking certain states actually commonwealths (and, similarly, 
counties are parishes).  And let's not talk about geographic entities that the 
post office recognizes but the local government does not.

The mind, alas, boggles.

(But maybe I'm reading more into your proposal than you meant, or I'm taking 
your example too literally?)

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:46 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

A talk at the recent Location Business Summit and some reading I've done about 
the semantic web and microformats lately got me to thinking about a standard 
way to represent places, place names, place data on the web.
(I must admit I'm a desktop software guy, not a web programmer.)

I thought it would be awesome if there was a way to create a unique URL for 
places that was somewhat intelligent to humans. If this URL could point to a 
folder on a server with some basic information about a place, that would be 
even better.

So I took a stab at creating this type of URL for my city, the City of 
Stockton. Here it is:

http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/

You can see the URL follows a logical hierarchy, and it would be easy to 
determine what the URL for the City of Sacramento, San Joaquin County, or 
Victory Park in the City of Stockton would be. Obviously the 
continent/country/state/county/city/location URL pattern would have to change 
for other parts of the world.

I put a very simple HTML file with data about the City of Stockton here:

http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/info.html

The current info.html file is just a skeleton. It's more of a place holder 
right now than anything else.

My thought was to also put a WKT file (place.wkt) representing the location of 
the place and a simple text file (data.txt) with facts about the place at this 
same URL:

http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/

Now, if someone wanted to write content about the City of Stockton, they could 
simply do something like this:

http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/uni
ted_states_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/">S
tockton

If everyone that was putting web content about Stockton online did the same 
thing, search engine and other tools would be able to link data from this web 
content to a single location.

This becomes even more powerful if we come up with some rules for the content 
of the info.html file, place.wkt file, and the data text file.
Here are some examples: 

(1) Specify that the place.wkt file have both a point and a polygon WKT 
representation, or a linestring representation, of the place when appropriate. 

(2) Specify that the info.html file use a list with alternate place names. This 
list would be identified with an html class value of "alternate_place_names".

(3) Specify that the data.txt file contain a relationships section that can 
contain an optional relationship in the form of: City is the County Seat of 
County. (Stockton is the County Seat of San Joaquin County.)

(4) Standardize the way common place facts are stored in the data.txt file. 
Population and area are examples.

I realize there are some problems with this overall scheme. How do you store a 
city that straddles a state boundary, for example? Or what if you want to have 
a URL for the location of the Pacific Garbage Patch?

However, I think we could use this system to uniquely identify and describe a 
lot of places in the world. We could then work on how to handle the edge cases.

Is anyone else interested in ironing out the kinks for a system like this? Is 
there already a system like this in place? (If so, I have just revealed my 
great ignorance to everyone on this mailing list.) 

I'm interested in setting something up that could be maintained by a group of 
geospatial professionals, and not by any one company.

I'm not sure how this system I describe would tie in with geonames. My first 
reaction when I stumbled on geonames is I couldn't find a unique and human 
understandable URL for a place.

Still, I'm interested in microformats and place names, and I'd like to see a 
system like this that was "open" and non-

RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Board Election 2010

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Ah, sorry, I scanned the first couple too quickly then jumped to the end too 
fast.  But, still, there's little or nothing there from too many of the 
candidates.

By this metric, so far Daniel and Paolo get my votes...

-mpg



> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Morissette
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Board Election 2010
> 
> Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > Perhaps I missed it, but with the exception of Paolo, I don't see any
> statements from the nominees themselves?  We've done that in past
> years, and I think it has been helpful to some of us.
> >
> 
> The statements from the others who provided one are *after* the
> nomination text in the same Wiki page at
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2010
> 
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Board Election 2010

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Perhaps I missed it, but with the exception of Paolo, I don't see any 
statements from the nominees themselves?  We've done that in past years, and I 
think it has been helpful to some of us.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:13 PM
> To: c...@osgeo.org; OSGeo Discussions; OSGeo-Board
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Board Election 2010
> 
> OSGeo Charter Members,
> 
> The board election for 2010 has begun. The 2010 nominee list is
> available here:
> 
>   http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Member_Nominations_2010
> 
> Please take the time to read the full list, then send your votes to
> c...@osgeo.org.
> 
> * Only Charter Members are eligible to vote
> * Choose four names from Board Member Nominations 2010 list
> 
>   Arnulf Christl
>   Frank Warmerdam
>   Venkatesh Raghavan
>   Tim Schaub
>   Lorenzo Becchi
>   Daniel Morissette
>   Paolo Cavallini
> 
> * Email c...@osgeo.org with a list of up to 4 names
> * You can cast up to 4 votes, for 4 different people. Multiple votes
> for one person will be counted as one vote.
> * Voting closes midnight (your timezone) 25-August-2010
> * Results will be posted at Board Election 2010 Results
> * Contact c...@osgeo.org with questions
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul Ramsey
> OSGeo Chief Returning Officer 2010
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Local Chapters Mailing List

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm here from the CUGOS gang (Seattle and environs).

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Seven (aka Arnulf)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 12:51 PM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Local Chapters Mailing List
> 
> Hello,
> we have created a new mailing list for Local Chapters. If you are a
> liaison officer of a Local Chapter or interested in creating one then
> please hop on this this list:
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/local-chapters
> 
> It is intended to allow for a dialog on what Local Chapters are and
> what
> you thing they can achieve. The overarching vision is to support and
> integrate initiatives around Free and Open Source Geospatial in the
> local context.
> 
> Best regards,
> Arnulf
> 
> --
> Exploring Space, Time and Mind
> http://arnulf.us
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> > A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that
> > all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source.
> 
> One of these clauses makes sense, one of them does not. Why would you
> limit yourself to *non* commercial Open Source?

(I parsed the original as meaning "non-commercial [and] open" source, with 
"non-commercial" being a technically incorrect but informally understood term 
meaning "not proprietary" -- redundant, in this case, with the use of the term 
"open".)

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> that projects that have applied for

Good...

> or are mature enough to apply

...But does "mature enough" mean Criteria 1-3 are met, or that some of the 
Desirables are met too, or..?

-mpg


From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:45 PM
To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

On 11/06/10 01:59, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

(Along those lines, I'd also ask precisely what "ready to start" incubation 
means...)

"Ready to start incubation" implies that projects that have applied for, or are 
mature enough to apply, can be ranked at the same level as projects in 
incubation.

I propose we use OSGeo's criteria for selecting incubation candidates here:
http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/evaluation.html

(At some point we should revisit OSGeo's checklists, but lets leave that for 
another email thread and for the moment we use what we have).




--

Cameron Shorter

Criteria

 1.  The code is under an OSI approved license (data & doc projects need to 
specify their choice for a type of license).
 2.  The project is willing to keep code clear of encumbrances
 3.  The project is "geospatial", or directly in support of geospatial 
applications.

Desirable
The following are desirable traits of projects entering into the community:

 1.  Open source software is already reasonably mature (working quality code).
 2.  Project already has a substantial user community.
 3.  Project already has a substantial and diverse developer community.
 4.  Project members are aware of, and implements support for, relevant 
standards (ie. OGC, etc).
 5.  Project has linkages with existing foundation projects.
 6.  Project fills a gap related to software that the foundation supports.
 7.  Project is prepared to develop in an open and collaborative fashion.
 8.  Project has contributions and interest from more than just one 
company/organization.
 9.  Project is willing to migrate some or all of its infrastructure (code 
repository, web site, wiki, mailing list, etc) to foundation support 
infrastructure, and to adopt a website style consistent with the foundation.

Geospatial Director

Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050

Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254



Think Globally, Fix Locally

Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source

http://www.lisasoft.com
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'd suggest that a set of N icons/logos accompanied by the words "mature" / 
"beta" / etc would be better than stars, as it directly indicates to the 
customer what we're using as a metric.

Fixed, well-defined categories like this are good, because we do not want to 
get into subjective arguments over whether app A is "better" than app B.

(Along those lines, I'd also ask precisely what "ready to start" incubation 
means...)

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 4:12 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating
> 
> Dave,
> So maybe we should have 1-5 stars (or osgeo logos) which is quickly
> visually understood by our target audience, and that is followed by a
> word or two describing each star rating.
> 
> 5 logos (not used yet)
> 4 logos (very mature - passed osgeo incubation)
> 3 logos (mature - started or ready to start osgeo incubation process)
> 2 logos (stable - puts our stable, tested releases which are used in
> production)
> 1 logo (beta software)
> 
> Dave Patton wrote:
> > On 2010/06/04 1:49 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> >> For the OSGeo LiveDVD and OSGeo marketing material, I propose we use
> >> a 5 star maturity rating. This is because it is too difficult to
> >> explain in a couple of words, the difference between: "Graduated",
> >> "In Incubation", "Stable", "Beta" Again, I'm interested to hear
> >> comments on whether I have defined a good rating system, before we
> >> set it in stone.
> >
> > Don't use any "rating system", as that implies to most people
> > some (usually subjective) judgment. For example, people looking
> > at marketing materials might think it reflects on "product quality".
> > It sounds to me like you want to define a simple "categorization
> > system", not a "rating system".
> >
> > Don't use "stars", because again, it's too often used as a visual
> > indicator in "rating systems".
> >
> > I'm still not convinced in my own mind that doing something as
> > simple as calling it a "Maturity Categorization", and using
> > from 1 to 5 OSGeo Logos vs using "stars" would provide a
> > solution that would be acceptable.
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Solutions Manager
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
> 
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
> 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> Your comments have been good in that they have made me think deeper

(Great, what more could anyone hope for?)

Anyway, I think you might be selling OSGeo short -- our very presence indicates 
an implicit  level of coordination and maturity that people will intuitively 
and implicitly grok.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 3:25 PM
> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating
> 
> Michael,
> Your comments have been good in that they have made me think deeper
> about what OSGeo stands for and then how we market that. Successful
> product companies first find out what the market wants, the build a
> marketing message, then build the product to fit the market. Developing
> a shiny product then discovering no-one wants it is a sad but common
> story.
> 
> In our case, we have created a brand called "OSGeo Incubation". What
> does that mean? Why is it valuable? How can we get that message across
> to our target market of GIS users who are interested in Open Source but
> don't know what OSGeo is?
> 
> If OSGeo Incubation doesn't represent quality or maturity (which is
> what
> the market are looking for) then what is the point of spending years of
> volunteer time going through incubation?
> 
> I'm afraid that "OSGeo Project" is not a compelling sales message to
> our
> target market, unless we can tie the message to quality or maturity (or
> another word with similar meaning).
> 
> Unless we can provide such positive marketing, I expect that we will
> have spin off projects or organisations "defect" from OSGeo create
> their
> own marketing message. (I wouldn't be surprise if OpenGeo had similar
> thoughts before they created and then marketed the OpenGeo suite.)
> 
> Marketing like everything else has positives and negatives.
> Positives:
> + Lots of users which draws in money and developers and we all make
> money and thrive
> 
> Negatives:
> - We need to distill our messages down into marketing sound bytes and
> generalised rating systems and the like
> 
> - We need to be honest in describing ours and others projects because
> that is what the market wants to hear before they will spend money on
> us
> 
> 
> On 08/06/10 09:17, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > Since this is an OSGeo-based CD, presumably with the OSGeo logo all
> over it in various places, I'd suggest there are only three kinds of
> projects:
> >
> >   - those which are "Approved by OSGeo"
> >   - those which are "Undergoing OSGeo Approval"
> >   - everything else
> >
> > With two simple logos you can indicate projects of the first two
> categories; I don't think much explanation should be required up front,
> especially if one avoids jargon words like "graduated" and
> "incubation".
> >
> > -mpg
> >
> >
> > From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:57 PM
> > To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating
> >
> > There have been some passionate views against rating projects.
> >
> > Maybe I should start by explaining the drivers which led to the
> proposal for a 5 star rating.
> >
> > Previously only OSGeo graduated and incubation projects were promoted
> by OSGeo at conferences and the like, however, with the OSGeo LiveDVD,
> we are packaging and hence promoting many non-graduated projects. How
> do we credit that a project has gone through the extensive graduation
> process in our marketing material in a manner that will be understood
> by the target audience?
> >
> > Unfortunately, putting "OSGeo Graduated" against a project is
> meaningless because the target audience usually hasn't heard of OSGeo
> and is even less likely to know what "Graduated" means.
> >
> > We could write a paragrah explaining what OSGeo and Graduation are on
> each Project Overview flier, but that wastes valuable marketing real-
> estate.
> >
> > Note: I'm basing our target audience on the typical profile of people
> who drop by the OSGeo booth at conferences. They pick up a LiveDVD and
> fliers which have "Open Source" on the cover. They are typically GIS
> users, have heard of Open Source and want to know what Open Source
> packages are available to replace their existing , but usually
> haven't he

RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Since this is an OSGeo-based CD, presumably with the OSGeo logo all over it in 
various places, I'd suggest there are only three kinds of projects:

 - those which are "Approved by OSGeo"
 - those which are "Undergoing OSGeo Approval"
 - everything else

With two simple logos you can indicate projects of the first two categories; I 
don't think much explanation should be required up front, especially if one 
avoids jargon words like "graduated" and "incubation".

-mpg


From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:57 PM
To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

There have been some passionate views against rating projects.

Maybe I should start by explaining the drivers which led to the proposal for a 
5 star rating.

Previously only OSGeo graduated and incubation projects were promoted by OSGeo 
at conferences and the like, however, with the OSGeo LiveDVD, we are packaging 
and hence promoting many non-graduated projects. How do we credit that a 
project has gone through the extensive graduation process in our marketing 
material in a manner that will be understood by the target audience?

Unfortunately, putting "OSGeo Graduated" against a project is meaningless 
because the target audience usually hasn't heard of OSGeo and is even less 
likely to know what "Graduated" means.

We could write a paragrah explaining what OSGeo and Graduation are on each 
Project Overview flier, but that wastes valuable marketing real-estate.

Note: I'm basing our target audience on the typical profile of people who drop 
by the OSGeo booth at conferences. They pick up a LiveDVD and fliers which have 
"Open Source" on the cover. They are typically GIS users, have heard of Open 
Source and want to know what Open Source packages are available to replace 
their existing , but usually haven't heard of OSGeo and almost certainly 
don't know about the graduation process. They want to know about the best 2 or 
3 packakges they should consider, and they definitely don't want to have to 
trawl through 350 software packages on http://freegis.org . They spend 5 to 20 
minutes talking at the OSGeo stand, then walk onto the other 50 exhibition 
booths at the conference.
Visitors to the OSGeo website are probably similar in profile, but we don't get 
such a good opportunity to meet them face to face as we do at conferences.

So the challenge is:
* How do we credit OSGeo Graduated projects in a manner understandable to GIS 
users new to Open Source?
* How can we credit other stable Open Source projects, while still 
acknowledging the extra kudos of passing graduation?
* How can we provide this message distinctly on marketing material so that it 
doesn't waste valuable marketing real-estate?


On 08/06/10 02:30, Michael P. Gerlek wrote: 
[foolishly stepping in where I should fear to tread.]
This has been asked for before, but historically some projects have not step up 
to the plate for providing such materials - for a variety of reasons, some good 
and some not so good.
OSGeo should simply put a link to the project's "marketing" section, and if the 
project owners provide content on the other end, then good - if not, then so be 
it.
I'm all about providing quality user experiences, but anything more than that 
is likely not worth the effort required.  Our users are, for the most part, a 
very savvy and discriminating bunch.  And for apps that are explicitly 
targeting users outside of the normal open source types, it should be up to 
them to provide the "marketing" materials they deem appropriate.
-mpg
 
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Bob Basques
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 9:24 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating
 
All, 
 
Did anyone else hear that thunder in the distance?  :c) 
 
That's what I've been trying to say, let the projects handle this sort of thing 
themselves, but OSGEO CAN (and SHOULD in my mind) coordinate a standardized 
look and feel to such things. 
 
bobb 
 


>>> Howard Butler  wrote:

On Jun 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Bob Basques wrote:

> Wouldn't it seem prudent to classify the projects before trying to compare 
> them?

/me screams into a room that no one can hear.  Stop it!

This whole exercise is quite frankly, masturbatory, and does nothing to help 
the projects who would be rated, provides very little to those "users" of said 
ratings, and calls into question our credibility by having the arrogance to 
rate *our own* projects in any way.  OSGeo is doing enough by providing 
visibility for the projects, and it is up to them to pull them in as users with 
the quality of 

RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[Michael P. Gerlek]

[foolishly stepping in where I should fear to tread...]
This has been asked for before, but historically some projects have not step up 
to the plate for providing such materials - for a variety of reasons, some good 
and some not so good.
OSGeo should simply put a link to the project's "marketing" section, and if the 
project owners provide content on the other end, then good - if not, then so be 
it.
I'm all about providing quality user experiences, but anything more than that 
is likely not worth the effort required.  Our users are, for the most part, a 
very savvy and discriminating bunch.  And for apps that are explicitly 
targeting users outside of the normal open source types, it should be up to 
them to provide the "marketing" materials they deem appropriate.
-mpg

From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Bob Basques
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 9:24 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating


All,


Did anyone else hear that thunder in the distance?  :c)


That's what I've been trying to say, let the projects handle this sort of thing 
themselves, but OSGEO CAN (and SHOULD in my mind) coordinate a standardized 
look and feel to such things.


bobb



>>> Howard Butler  wrote:

On Jun 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Bob Basques wrote:

> Wouldn't it seem prudent to classify the projects before trying to compare 
> them?

/me screams into a room that no one can hear.  Stop it!

This whole exercise is quite frankly, masturbatory, and does nothing to help 
the projects who would be rated, provides very little to those "users" of said 
ratings, and calls into question our credibility by having the arrogance to 
rate *our own* projects in any way.  OSGeo is doing enough by providing 
visibility for the projects, and it is up to them to pull them in as users with 
the quality of their software, the quality of their documentation, and the 
quality of their community.  A silly sticker by us or anyone else isn't going 
to sway that process in any way.

It would be more valuable to collate a series of "elevator pitch"-type material 
from each project who wishes to participate to make their case to the 
envisioned users of this rating.  Projects who do not participate in this for 
whatever reason implicitly make a statement about their quality. That's going 
to be far more useful to both the projects and the users than an elongating 
graphic.

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Mailing list for .NET work?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm thinking there might be a reasonable number of .NET folks lurking around 
here, and that it might be nice to have a mailing list for .NET-specific open 
source geo work -- what projects are being done, what issues people have, etc, 
etc.

If interested, send email (to me or to list, at your preference) and we'll see 
how much support there is.

[Pls don't hijack this thread for arguing about how open/closed .NET is.]

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Fwd: GeoWeb CFP Deadline Is This Friday, March 12th]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

[ Some of you know I've been involved in this conference in the past, and 
indeed am again this year.  I like it because it is a very different sort of 
conference: an unusual mix of industry, academia, government, and "other".  If 
you're interested in submitting or have any questions, feel free to ping me. ]

-mpg



> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:44 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Fwd: GeoWeb CFP Deadline Is This Friday,
> March 12th]
> 
> FYI - if you need an excuse to go to Vancouver, submit your abstracts
> for GeoWeb this week.  Several OSGeo friends are usually there.
> 
> Tyler
> 
> 
> ---
> July 26-30 · Vancouver, B.C. Canada · http://www.geowebconference.org
> 
> GeoWeb 2010 Conference Submission Deadline
> Abstracts are Due this Friday (March 12th)
> 
> Want to be in the Program? Time is Running Out!
> The deadline is fast approaching. Abstracts can be submitted online no
> later than 4pm PST Friday, March 12th. The emphasis for GeoWeb 2010 is
> Going Real Time. GeoWeb is about the technologies for information
> sharing and collaboration respecting events and activities in the real
> world. It is about designing our world and reacting to the changes in
> the world around us. It is about managing our way in the world using
> the
> best information about the current and probable future state(s) of the
> world.
> 
> All submissions must include a title, theme, a detail abstract (<200
> words) and a short description (<75 words). Presentation sessions will
> be 35 minutes in length. Workshops will be 3 hours in length and should
> focus on a key technology or standard.
> 
> Presenters will be chosen based on a formal selection process led by
> the
> 2010 GeoWeb Planning Committee and will be notified of the status of
> their submission by March 25, 2010. Please note that all approved
> presenters will be provided with a 25% discount on the registration fee
> but are responsible for their own travel and expenses.
> 
> To learn more about GeoWeb, the details for the Call for Submissions,
> please visit GeoWebConference.org. Questions can be directed to James
> Sakamoto.
> 
> Be Connected, Spread the Word
> Watch previous keynote and invited speakers, make comments, or chime in
> on a discussion. Stay connected to the GeoWeb Community:
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Re: IS EVERYONE HERE FAST ASLEEP? was: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OKF / OSGeo response to the consultation on opening Ordnance Survey data

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Ditto - it seemed sort of so obvious that I assumed Our Board would  
just Do the Right Thing.

+2

.mpg

On Feb 25, 2010, at 1:30 AM, "Chris Puttick"  wrote:

> Sorry Jo; Schuyler, personally I hadn't realised a response would be  
> necessary. I'd assumed it would be a given that OSGeo would be  
> supporting this...
>
> So +1 to what Jo said.
>
> And come to think of it, +1 to what Schuyler said too!
>
> Chris
>
>
> - "Schuyler Erle"  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 16:26 +0100, Jo Walsh wrote:
>>> dear a...@osgeo,
>>>
>>> In sending this mail I'm following the protocol for letters of
>> support
>>> coming from OSGeo:
>>>
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Protocol_for_requesting_letter_of_support
>>>
>>> As you may have heard, there's a public consultation running in the
>> UK
>>> on options for open licensing national mapping data maintained by
>>> Ordnance Survey.
>>
>> Is everyone on this mailing list dead? Or asleep? How is it that no
>> one
>> has responded to this inquiry yet? Have we not, at least some of us,
>> been agitating for the proposed outcome for years? Does this issue
>> not,
>> at least in principle, affect us all? Have you all forgotten that
>> "your
>> software is awesome, but it's useless -- without data"?
>>
>> I want to go on record as being 100% in favor of OSGeo providing a
>> letter of support for this response to the OSGB consultation. The
>> principle of Open Public Data is completely in harmony with the
>> ideals
>> and objectives of the OSGeo Foundation. This is a chance for us to  
>> see
>> a
>> change for the better in Ordnance Survey policy, a change that will
>> serve as a signal example to other NMAs around the world.
>>
>> *Please* simply respond to the previous email with at least a +1 or a
>> single word of support, if you'd like to see the OSGeo Board respond
>> to
>> this request in the affirmative. *Please*, for the love of God, don't
>> let us as a community deserve to be ashamed of ourselves for our own
>> ungenerous apathy. According to the Board's protocol for such things,
>> you only have a few hours, so pipe up now, while you have the chance.
>>
>> SDE
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open  
> Document Format). If you have difficulty opening them, please visit 
> http://iso26300.info 
>  for more information.
>
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Jobs mailing list

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Just a gentle reminder that there is a j...@lists.osgeo.org mailing list.

It is a very low volume list, but if, in these troubled times, you are looking 
for an open source geo job or looking to hire an open source geo guy/gal, then 
this would be the place to go.

-mpg

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Anyone going to GeoInt this month?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I didn't get a response from anyone else.. I'll look for you.

.mpg

On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:54 AM, "Andrew Turner"  wrote:

> Hey - I'll be there again!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Michael P. Gerlek  
>  wrote:
>> I'm going to be at the GeoInt conference in San Antonio in a couple  
>> weeks -- if a few others of you are are, maybe we could meet for  
>> lunch or something?
>>
>> -mpg
>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Andrew Turner
> mobile: 248.982.3609
> and...@fortiusone.com
> http://highearthorbit.com
>
> http://geocommons.com   Helping build the Geospatial Web
> Introduction to Neogeography - http://oreilly.com/catalog/neogeography
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[OSGeo-Discuss] And is anyone going to, umm, the PDC show?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Okay, so the odds are pretty slim, but: if anyone's going to PDC (the Microsoft 
developers conference) next month, I'd be happy to do a meetup there too.

(I'm interested in seeing what's new with MSFT's geo support -- Bing & Friends 
-- as it's been a couple years since I've looked into what they're doing.  I'm 
also interested to see what buzz is on their new Codeplex open source 
initiative...)

-mpg

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Anyone going to GeoInt this month?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'm going to be at the GeoInt conference in San Antonio in a couple weeks -- if 
a few others of you are are, maybe we could meet for lunch or something?

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> Local OSGeo chapters are great, but how about existing non-OSGeo
> groups? Does OSGeo have a strategy to
> build communication with them?

You mean groups like local ESRI chapters, ASPRS chapters, GIS professionals, 
etc?

I'd encourage the local chapters to find such non-OSGeo local groups and offer 
to crash^H^H^H^H^Hattend one of their meetings and do a presentation on what 
OSGeo has to offer.

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I agree, we don't want to compete directly with anyone nor do we want to take 
an adversarial political stance.

However, I'd offer that while the level of awareness of open source GIS 
offerings has much improved over the past couple years, it still has a ways to 
go and OSGeo can be a force for good in that area.


-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Mateusz Loskot
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:58 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo
> 
> Christopher Schmidt wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 04:28:20PM +0200, Cédric Moullet wrote:
> >> I'm sorry (and unhappy) to say that the
> >> GIS leaders (ESRI, Autdoesk, Intergraph etc...) don't see OSGEO has
> an
> >> important contradictor: from my point of view, this is what needs to
> be
> >> changed in the next 5 years.
> >
> > If someone wants to compete with ESRI -- that's fine. We should
> > support them insofar as we can with community resources, shared
> userbases,
> > and feedback. But it is not the job of OSGeo to make these projects
> > successful -- only to help them succeed based on their own efforts.
> 
> Especially, when one or two  of the mentioned companies have supported
> OSGeo Foundation a lot.
> 
> A holy war is something that should be avoided at most. It should not
> be
> about how to compete and win the market, but about how to effectively
> collaborate in wide range of areas.
> 
> Best regards,
> --
> Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Thinking aloud, a possible contrarian view:

A goal like "to produce a comprehensive suite of tools [that do X or Y]..." 
doesn't likely fit with OSGeo's broad membership and interests.  We are an 
umbrella organization representing a number of projects, each with its own 
unique goals and agendas.  It is unlikely OSGeo would be able to produce a 
specific tool just because (hypothetically) the Board says we should: open 
source folks often don't take top-down direction well, unless it meets their 
own personal needs and agendas.

Which is not to say that an analytical tool suite is a bad idea, just that it 
seems unlikely to be a worthy goal at that level of the hierarchy.

-mpg


> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-
> boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of "René A. Enguehard"
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:35 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo
> 
> What I'd like to see within the next 5 years would be more analytical
> tools. Most of the projects in OSGeo are very much enablers: they put
> the facilities in place for people to program their own tools. However,
> as I have noticed over the years, people are reluctant to move to open
> source implementations of geospatial software because they are, in
> effect, losing capabilities. Yes, there is still the potential for the
> same capabilities to be put back in, but the fact remains they just
> aren't there. For example, I have never seen any MCDA, PCA, HotSpot
> Analysis, CART or neural network tools in open source packages. If we
> were to produce a comprehensive suite of tools offering the standard
> analytical tools as well as some more advanced ones, then these
> proprietary offerings wouldn't look as appealing. Moreover, if we had a
> consolidated toolset which could be used on a multitude of project we
> would not have to re-invent the wheel for each separate project.
> Currently, proprietary software generally offers advanced analytic
> capability out-of-the-box and open source software does not. I see this
> as a bit of a stumbling block.
> 
> Another thing, and I was chatting about this in the lab today, is that
> for particular needs, open source implementations of geospatial
> software
> generally don't have much to offer. The generic capabilities are there,
> or at least enabled for others to program, but special-needs cases
> there
> is not much. The example used today in the lab was CARIS HIPS or SIPS.
> What, if anything, exists in the open source community that could come
> close to the processing capabilities of this?
> 
> Still another area with a lack of development is 3D and 4D modeling /
> rendering / analysis, something like ESRI ArcGlobe with the 3D Analyst
> package or Myriax Eonfusion. There has been very little work in these
> domains which are of particular interest to me. Perhaps the amount of
> people working in these areas is much smaller than the amount of people
> using something more like general analytic capabilities, but it is an
> area that "needs work" nonetheless.
> 
> The point, and I'd like to make this clear, is not the I'm bemoaning
> the
> lack of features and projects in the open source community. I think
> OSGeo and the open source community have done a tremendous job and
> should feel, rightfully, proud at what they have accomplished. However,
> when asked what I'd like to see on the agenda for OSGeo, this is it.
> I'd
> like to see a hard push towards analytics to make the various projects
> we have to offer more directly useful to the average GIS user. In the
> end, it's really about market penetration. The more useful open source
> software is, the better a "deal" it looks like to outsiders and the
> more
> people we'll attract.
> 
> Please note: I don't presume to speak for anyone but myself, IANAL,
> just
> my two cents, your mileage may vary, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam.
> 
> Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote:
> > Hi everyone, a recent chat I was asked about our vision for OSGeo
> over
> > the next 3 and 5 years.  I'd really like to hear thoughts on the
> matter
> > and pool a few of the ideas together for further discussions amongst
> > committees, projects, chapters and the board.
> >
> > It's also a good way for the board nominees in the upcoming election
> to
> > get a sense of where other members are thinking these days.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Tyler
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> 
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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Insurance for contractors?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I received a surprising number (+20) of responses to this, many off-list.  My 
unscientific summary is as follows:

* some people responded privately, indicating they do not have insurance and 
would rather I not
  publicize the issue lest their erstwhile employees suddenly take notice :-)

* in the US, sole proprietorship is the way to go for simple one-person, 
garage-based shops

* seems that a significant percentage of employers aren't going to ask and/or 
just don't care,
  and of those that do ask many will waive it if you explain you're too small 
to afford it --
  this is certainly the case for small employers (big employers may just make 
it a hard requirement,
  knowing they will have enough bidders that someone will meet the criteria)

* IEEE and possibly other such orgs offer professional liability insurance at 
"reasonable" rates,
  (for some definition of "reasonable")

* if you're a (US?) govt contractor, seems like you'll almost certainly need to 
have insurance;
  if you're bidding for contracts, things get messy fast

* and if you're doing contract work that seems to require it, just bake it in 
as a line item
  in the contract bid -- see if you can just pass the extra costs along

* for longer contracts, some employers will offer the option of taking you on 
as a temporary
  employee (which means you're covered by the company's policy)

* for some employers, having insurance might give you more "credibility" as a 
professional
  player -- but it also may be that as open source itself gains more street 
cred, this becomes
  less critical

* and, finally, like all insurance, the odds are overwhelmingly against you 
ever needing to
  have to actually USE it...


Here's a pretty typical response:

> Do I carry insurance?  No.
>
> Insurance adds significant administrative and financial overhead to a one man 
> shop.  If you
> want the one man shop price, you more often than not need to be willing to go 
> without them
> having insurance.
>
> If you think about it, this isn't a bad arrangement anyway.  You're not going 
> to give the one
> man shop such an important thing that you're going to have to turn around and 
> sue them are you?
> You're one man contract is for doing dirty things that you don't have time or 
> motivation to do,
> not mission critical business work.  If you *are* having your one man 
> contract do mission
> critical work, you have bigger problems than whether or not they have 
> liability insurance 
> in my opinion.


The happy news is that I was able to (oh so gently...) push back to our 
accounting and HR departments on the insurance requirement, using the above 
typical response and the "prevailing evidence" I gathered from this thread 
showing that most of you don't have insurance and yet, happily, the sun still 
rises every morning.

Thanks to all who responded!

-mpg







> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Gerlek
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:03 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Insurance for contractors?
> 
> In the past I've hired some people for contract or consultant work
> (both open source projects and more general stuff) -- generally these
> people have been independent, one-man shops found by word of mouth and
> reputation, as opposed to hiring someone from an agency.
> 
> I'm getting pushback now from the administrative side of my company
> saying that any contractor I hire needs to have proof of insurance.  I
> understand the legal reasons for this, but I'm wondering how many of
> you out there actually have business/contractors insurance?  Do
> companies you work for insist on it, or not?  And how many of you are
> formally set up as LLCs or sole proprietorships or such?
> 
> [while this is likely a US-centric issue from the hiring side, I'm
> interested in international responses too since I've hired some
> foreigners as well over the years]
> 
> -mpg

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[OSGeo-Discuss] How not to read a patent

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Fresh on the heels of word that Google has patented the idea of a search web 
page [1] and the recent discussions of the value and meaning of patents here 
and elsewhere, I offer a link to Rob Weir's great advice on how to read patents 
[2].

[1] http://gawker.com/5350982/google-patents-worlds-simplest-home-page

[2] http://www.robweir.com/blog/labels/patents.html

-mpg

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[OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Insurance for contractors?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Well, this is interesting...

I've already received a number of private responses from people who do not have 
insurance but wish to remain anonymous so their potential employers don't ask 
about it.

Feel free to email me directly with your responses to the below questions, and 
I'll post a summary in a few days with no names attached.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:03 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Insurance for contractors?

In the past I've hired some people for contract or consultant work (both open 
source projects and more general stuff) -- generally these people have been 
independent, one-man shops found by word of mouth and reputation, as opposed to 
hiring someone from an agency.

I'm getting pushback now from the administrative side of my company saying that 
any contractor I hire needs to have proof of insurance.  I understand the legal 
reasons for this, but I'm wondering how many of you out there actually have 
business/contractors insurance?  Do companies you work for insist on it, or 
not?  And how many of you are formally set up as LLCs or sole proprietorships 
or such?

[while this is likely a US-centric issue from the hiring side, I'm interested 
in international responses too since I've hired some foreigners as well over 
the years]

-mpg

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Insurance for contractors?

[Michael P. Gerlek]

In the past I've hired some people for contract or consultant work (both open 
source projects and more general stuff) -- generally these people have been 
independent, one-man shops found by word of mouth and reputation, as opposed to 
hiring someone from an agency.

I'm getting pushback now from the administrative side of my company saying that 
any contractor I hire needs to have proof of insurance.  I understand the legal 
reasons for this, but I'm wondering how many of you out there actually have 
business/contractors insurance?  Do companies you work for insist on it, or 
not?  And how many of you are formally set up as LLCs or sole proprietorships 
or such?

[while this is likely a US-centric issue from the hiring side, I'm interested 
in international responses too since I've hired some foreigners as well over 
the years]

-mpg

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

[Michael P. Gerlek]

To be clear, it's not an effort I have the bandwidth for personally.  But if 
there were qualified developers interested in taking it on, I might be in a 
position to offer project guidance and a small amount of funding.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:12 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

OK. I'm not an expert on images, but I'd be interested in working with
you. However, I avoid C++ like a lethal strain of the Swine Flu. :]

I may give some more thought to some of Bob's ideas about making it
easier to work with image tiles.

Thanks.

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
 
 

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:19 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms

I've not given it much thought recently, to be honest.  I'd need to
review the current state of things in OpenJp2 (or whatever it's called)
to see where they are at, what changes would be realistic and viable,
how amenable they'd be to taking patches versus a fork, etc.  Done
properly, the work would have no "geo" specific component at all -- it
would just be a new version of some of the internal algorithms.  The
test case would simply be to encode and decode an 500 GB(?) raw file on
a box with 2 GB (?) of RAM.

I would certainly not want anyone to have to build a whole new jp2
library from scratch, if that's what you meant.  I'd really only be
interested in C++ (or possibly mono-safe C#).

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:11 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms

MPG:

When you say "effort" do you mean some sort of library to support JP2
geo side of things?

What programming language would you be most interested in? C++?

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
 
 

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 1:59 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms

It would not be a good SoC thing, due to the level of expertise and time
required.

I (LizardTech) would likely be willing to contribute to such an effort.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Fawcett, David
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:11 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms


I realize that there are likely not a large number of people who have
the expertise and experience to write this kind of code.  

Is this a project that should be shopped around for funding?  Google
Summer of Code?  A grant from our ~benevolent overlord Google?  Some
other foundation or org interested in open data formats?  

David.
-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:36 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms



> Do you know why there hasn't been a broader adoption of JP2?

Not through lack of trying on my part :-)

I think the two biggest reasons are:

(1) The algorithms for handling large images in memory really are rocket
science, and no one in the FOSS community has gotten the "itch"
sufficiently bad enough to go and do the work needed inside the existing
open source packages.  Hopefully someday someone will.


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I've not given it much thought recently, to be honest.  I'd need to review the 
current state of things in OpenJp2 (or whatever it's called) to see where they 
are at, what changes would be realistic and viable, how amenable they'd be to 
taking patches versus a fork, etc.  Done properly, the work would have no "geo" 
specific component at all -- it would just be a new version of some of the 
internal algorithms.  The test case would simply be to encode and decode an 500 
GB(?) raw file on a box with 2 GB (?) of RAM.

I would certainly not want anyone to have to build a whole new jp2 library from 
scratch, if that's what you meant.  I'd really only be interested in C++ (or 
possibly mono-safe C#).

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:11 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

MPG:

When you say "effort" do you mean some sort of library to support JP2
geo side of things?

What programming language would you be most interested in? C++?

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
 
 

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 1:59 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms

It would not be a good SoC thing, due to the level of expertise and time
required.

I (LizardTech) would likely be willing to contribute to such an effort.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Fawcett, David
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:11 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms


I realize that there are likely not a large number of people who have
the expertise and experience to write this kind of code.  

Is this a project that should be shopped around for funding?  Google
Summer of Code?  A grant from our ~benevolent overlord Google?  Some
other foundation or org interested in open data formats?  

David.
-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:36 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms



> Do you know why there hasn't been a broader adoption of JP2?

Not through lack of trying on my part :-)

I think the two biggest reasons are:

(1) The algorithms for handling large images in memory really are rocket
science, and no one in the FOSS community has gotten the "itch"
sufficiently bad enough to go and do the work needed inside the existing
open source packages.  Hopefully someday someone will.


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

[Michael P. Gerlek]

It would not be a good SoC thing, due to the level of expertise and time 
required.

I (LizardTech) would likely be willing to contribute to such an effort.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Fawcett, David
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:11 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms


I realize that there are likely not a large number of people who have
the expertise and experience to write this kind of code.  

Is this a project that should be shopped around for funding?  Google
Summer of Code?  A grant from our ~benevolent overlord Google?  Some
other foundation or org interested in open data formats?  

David.
-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:36 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms



> Do you know why there hasn't been a broader adoption of JP2?

Not through lack of trying on my part :-)

I think the two biggest reasons are:

(1) The algorithms for handling large images in memory really are rocket
science, and no one in the FOSS community has gotten the "itch"
sufficiently bad enough to go and do the work needed inside the existing
open source packages.  Hopefully someday someone will.


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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Yes, JP2 supports signed and unsigned types of up to ~24 bits.  And lots of 
channels (bands).  And alpha masking.  And arbitrary metadata blobs (geospatial 
and otherwise).

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Lucena, Ivan
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:22 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions; OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File 
FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

But you can't compress data types other than byte in JPG. Can you do that in 
JP2K?


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Landon Blake 
>  Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File   
> FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  Sent: Aug 21 '09 12:42
>  
>  Paul,
>  
>  I was wondering the same thing.
>  
>  It seems a little like choosing to drive a Honda Accord, or a Ferrari.
>  The Ferrari is a lot faster and comes with a better looking trophy wife
>  (or husband), but the Honda is a lot easier to fix. (Try finding an
>  affordable Ferrari mechanic in Stockton, California.)
>  
>  To tie this back into our original discussion, it seems like the
>  government should be choosing to drive a Honda Accord when it can,
>  instead of the Ferrari.
>  
>  I guess you'd really have to crunch the numbers and see if the savings
>  in bandwidth/disk space costs were really worth the compression savings
>  that result from a proprietary compression scheme ("wavelet black
>  magic").
>  
>  The problem with this is a lot of the benefits that come from the Honda
>  Accord (open image format + open compression algorithm) aren't easily
>  calculated in dollars and cents.
>  
>  Still, this speaks to an important truth I have discovered in open
>  source development: Simple is better, even when it isn't necessarily
>  faster and smaller.
>  
>  I'd rather have code that I can understand, or a file format that a
>  programmer in 20 years will understand, than a Ferrari you can't drive
>  unless you have a PHD and did a thesis on wavelet compression. :]
>  
>  Landon
>  Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
>  Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
>  
>  
>  
>  -Original Message-
>  From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
>  [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
>  Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:36 AM
>  To: OSGeo Discussions
>  Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File
>  FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  
>  So hung up on wavelets, we are.
>  
>  Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted
>  internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without
>  noticeable image quality reductions, and as an added bonus can be
>  decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The
>  wavelet stuff is k00l, in that there is no need for an overview
>  pyramid (it's implicit in the compression math) and much higher
>  compression rates can be achieved. But operationally, you can go a
>  long way with the more primitive (open image format + open compression
>  algorithm) approach.
>  
>  P.
>  ___
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>  
>  
>  Warning:
>  Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects 
> including translation and transmission 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> Someone earlier in this thread spoke about some of these technologies 
> being somewhat obsolete what with the new network and bandwidth speeds 
> available for publishing.

I think the comment was that by hiding the data behind a server, you can reduce 
the users' exposure to a myriad of file formats, some possibly proprietary.  
It's a good point.

You still need to store the data on the servers, though, so the technologies 
themselves are by no means obsolete -- it's just a question of who has to deal 
with them.

-mpg





From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Bob Basques
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:28 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions; Ivan Lucena
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File 
FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

All, 

Can someone remind me again, are we talking about saving space, or making it 
easier to implement something . . .  :c) 

I personally prefer nice simple internal pyramided tiles with indexing, about 
10% extra space, and very good performance. 

Someone earlier in this thread spoke about some of these technologies being 
somewhat obsolete what with the new network and bandwidth speeds available for 
publishing. 

bobb 



>>> "Lucena, Ivan"  wrote:
But you can't compress data types other than byte in JPG. Can you do that in 
JP2K?


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Landon Blake 
>  Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open 
>FileFormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  Sent: Aug 21 '09 12:42
> 
>  Paul,
> 
>  I was wondering the same thing.
> 
>  It seems a little like choosing to drive a Honda Accord, or a Ferrari.
>  The Ferrari is a lot faster and comes with a better looking trophy wife
>  (or husband), but the Honda is a lot easier to fix. (Try finding an
>  affordable Ferrari mechanic in Stockton, California.)
> 
>  To tie this back into our original discussion, it seems like the
>  government should be choosing to drive a Honda Accord when it can,
>  instead of the Ferrari.
> 
>  I guess you'd really have to crunch the numbers and see if the savings
>  in bandwidth/disk space costs were really worth the compression savings
>  that result from a proprietary compression scheme ("wavelet black
>  magic").
> 
>  The problem with this is a lot of the benefits that come from the Honda
>  Accord (open image format + open compression algorithm) aren't easily
>  calculated in dollars and cents.
> 
>  Still, this speaks to an important truth I have discovered in open
>  source development: Simple is better, even when it isn't necessarily
>  faster and smaller.
> 
>  I'd rather have code that I can understand, or a file format that a
>  programmer in 20 years will understand, than a Ferrari you can't drive
>  unless you have a PHD and did a thesis on wavelet compression. :]
> 
>  Landon
>  Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
>  Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
> 
> 
> 
>  -Original Message-
>  From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
>  [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
>  Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:36 AM
>  To: OSGeo Discussions
>  Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File
>  FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> 
>  So hung up on wavelets, we are.
> 
>  Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted
>  internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without
>  noticeable image quality reductions, and as an added bonus can be
>  decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The
>  wavelet stuff is k00l, in that there is no need for an overview
>  pyramid (it's implicit in the compression math) and much higher
>  compression rates can be achieved. But operationally, you can go a
>  long way with the more primitive (open image format + open compression
>  algorithm) approach.
> 
>  P.
>  ___
>  Discuss mailing list
>  disc...@lists.osgeo.org
>  http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
> 
>  Warning:
>  Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects 
>including translation and transmission
errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified 
that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
information in error, please notify the
sender immediately.
>  ___
>  Discuss mailing list
>  disc...@lists.osgeo.org
>  http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats andProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

> 10:1 compression rates without noticeable image quality reductions,

For some appropriate, workflow-specific definition of "noticeable".

Everything is a tradeoff.  I always tell people to run their own tests with 
their own datasets to determine what sort of quality they will achieve and what 
their users' workflows will require.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:36 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats 
andProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

So hung up on wavelets, we are.

Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted
internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without
noticeable image quality reductions, and as an added bonus can be
decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The
wavelet stuff is k00l, in that there is no need for an overview
pyramid (it's implicit in the compression math) and much higher
compression rates can be achieved. But operationally, you can go a
long way with the more primitive (open image format + open compression
algorithm) approach.

P.
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats andProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Not a stupid question -- but it doesn't work that way.  The artifacts are due 
to the wavelet processing of the pixels near the tile boundaries, and the 
boundaries have to be treated reflectively within their individual tiles (in 
order to keep each tile separate), which means you can sometimes "see" where 
those boundaries are.  "Overlapping" doesn't help because the wavelet footprint 
spans a large width, in order to handle the lower-resolution scales.  Which in 
turn means you need to be able "reach" far away parts of the image at various 
(some might say "arbitrary") stages in the wavelet pipeline.
 
Just trust me, it is a nontrivial problem to solve.  Brighter minds than ours 
have spent a lot of energy on this problem -- a literature search would reveal 
a number of PhD theses and patents.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:45 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats 
andProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

MPG wrote: "Tiling" essentially means you can take a large file and
compress pieces of it independently.  This avoids having to deal with
the large memory footprint issues, but it can also lead to seam-line
artifacts under certain conditions.  Ideally, one would prefer to have
the option of compressing large images without resorting to using
tiles."

This is probably a stupid question, since I know absolutely nothing
about image compression, but couldn't you overlap the tiles slightly to
avoid the seam lines?

This would obviously result in a slightly larger file size because some
pixels would be compressed twice. But that might be OK if you were
trying to compress a huge image.

What about reading chunks of the image off disk, instead of trying to
put the whole image in memory? This would be slower, but might make an
impossible task possible.

We run into this problem with vector datasets to. Some datasets are just
to stinking BIG. One of my tasks for OpenJUMP is to write a core module
that displays vector data accessed directly from disk, instead of from
memory. This will be slower, but it is better than crashing the program
because there isn't enough RAM.

Things must be more complicated than can be described in an e-mail,
because we've got people a lot smarter than me working on these
problems. I am just curious. (I tried reading about wavelet compression
on Wikipedia yesterday and quickly got a headache.) :]

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
 
 

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:36 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats
andProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

"Tiling" essentially means you can take a large file and compress pieces
of it independently.  This avoids having to deal with the large memory
footprint issues, but it can also lead to seam-line artifacts under
certain conditions.  Ideally, one would prefer to have the option of
compressing large images without resorting to using tiles.

Note too that, in addition to the large image issue, many of the JP2
implementations out there are either not fully compliant or are not
tuned for performance.  A viable solution would need both of these.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Chris Puttick
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:37 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and
ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Well, according to this page: http://jpeg2000.epfl.ch/ v.5.1, courtesy
in part Eastman Kodak, provides "complete JP2 support at the decoding
side" - not sure whether that covers the tiling or other geo needs, but
doesn't it sound worth investigating?

Chris


- "Christopher Schmidt"  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 08:27:13AM -0700, Landon Blake wrote:
> > Thanks for the information Michael. I am downloading Opticks right
> now.
> > :]
> > 
> > I also found this Java library for JP2, thought I'm not sure how
> > complete/up-to-date it is:
> > 
> > http://jj2000.epfl.ch/
> > 
> > Maybe we need a JPEG 2000 page on the OSGeo wiki.
> 
> Note that "JPEG 2000 support" is different from "JPEG 2000 support
> which
> works on geo-sized images." The tiling (or 'paging'? as Michael calls
> it) support that's supposed to be provided by OpenJPEG2000 has been
> coming 'real soon now' for about 18 months now from my uneducated
> observations, and until it's there, most tools using Ope

RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Michael P. Gerlek]

"Tiling" essentially means you can take a large file and compress pieces of it 
independently.  This avoids having to deal with the large memory footprint 
issues, but it can also lead to seam-line artifacts under certain conditions.  
Ideally, one would prefer to have the option of compressing large images 
without resorting to using tiles.

Note too that, in addition to the large image issue, many of the JP2 
implementations out there are either not fully compliant or are not tuned for 
performance.  A viable solution would need both of these.

-mpg


-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Chris Puttick
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:37 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and 
ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Well, according to this page: http://jpeg2000.epfl.ch/ v.5.1, courtesy in part 
Eastman Kodak, provides "complete JP2 support at the decoding side" - not sure 
whether that covers the tiling or other geo needs, but doesn't it sound worth 
investigating?

Chris


- "Christopher Schmidt"  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 08:27:13AM -0700, Landon Blake wrote:
> > Thanks for the information Michael. I am downloading Opticks right
> now.
> > :]
> > 
> > I also found this Java library for JP2, thought I'm not sure how
> > complete/up-to-date it is:
> > 
> > http://jj2000.epfl.ch/
> > 
> > Maybe we need a JPEG 2000 page on the OSGeo wiki.
> 
> Note that "JPEG 2000 support" is different from "JPEG 2000 support
> which
> works on geo-sized images." The tiling (or 'paging'? as Michael calls
> it) support that's supposed to be provided by OpenJPEG2000 has been
> coming 'real soon now' for about 18 months now from my uneducated
> observations, and until it's there, most tools using OpenJPEG for JP2s
> are
> going to suffering under much the same limitations.
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> > Landon
> > Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
> > Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
> > [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Considine,
> Michael
> > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:09 AM
> > To: OSGeo Discussions
> > Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and
> > ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > Opticks is an open source remote sensing application and
> development
> > framework. We recently started the process to add JPEG 2000 support
> to
> > our framework. We picked OpenJpeg to add JPEG 2000 support to our
> > application. They are also open source. We currently support
> importing
> > JPEG 2000 files but we are currently limited to the 4GB memory size
> > after decoding.
> > 
> > Our plan is to continue development and to upgrade to OpenJpeg 2.0
> once
> > they have a stable release. That will allow Opticks to use a pager
> to
> > display and support much larger files.
> > 
> > Michael Considine
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
> > [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Bruce
> Bannerman
> > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:15 PM
> > To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
> > Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
> > Algorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> > 
> > 
> > IMO:
> > 
> > 
> > Just another thought on this issue (though we do seem to be
> recycling
> > arguments over the years...):
> > 
> > 
> > Assuming that I have a very large archive of spatial data, be it
> imagery
> > or any other spatial format and that I store my data in a variety
> of
> > proprietary formats:
> > 
> > 
> > In ten years from now, can I be sure that:
> > 
> > - the company that created, understands, and holds the IP in the 
> >   data format will still be around?
> > 
> > - there will still be software that runs on the then current
> >   operating environment, that can read and 'fully exploit' the data
> >   in the proprietary standard?
> > 
> > - that this future software will work seamlessly with my then
> current 
> >   spatial environment?
> > 
> > - if all of the above risks prove to eventuate, can I be sure that
> I'll
> >   be able to salvage my data into another format, retaining its
> complete
> > 
> >   semantic context?
> > 
> > 
> > IMO, it is a hig

RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

[Michael P. Gerlek]

I'll mention too the question of patents and JP2, since this thread is bound to 
get into THAT issue too before long :-)



Some of the algorithms within the JP2 standard (from ISO) are patented.  
However, the companies in question have agreed to not exercise their rights on 
those patents for any implementation of the standard.  That is, if you write a 
ISO-compliant JP2 encoder, Company X won't come after you.  This is a good 
thing, and is not uncommon practice for some standards groups.  It's better for 
us than the RAND ("reasonable and non-discriminatory") clauses that get used by 
some groups.



However, there is an interesting philosophical consideration for the open 
source community here.



Let's say I write a nice, compliant MpgJp2 library on Monday and open source 
it.  Landon looks at my code and, smart cookie that he is, realizes that he 
could improve the overall compression ratio by tweaking one of the core 
algorithms.  He forks my code, makes the change, and posts the SunburnedJp2 
library to the web on Tuesday night.  Cool.  We like that.  Open source in 
action.



But wait -- Wednesday morning, he finds an email from Company X's lawyers in 
his inbox: he is now in violation of X's patent, because he is not using the 
patent within the bounds of a "compliant JP2 encoder".  He broke the file 
format.  ["You break it, you buy it"?]  It's not a "JPEG 2000" library anymore.



Some open source partisans may therefore consider the JP2 standard to not be 
truly open enough.



I'm sure there are other standards with this same problem, although I don't 
know of any offhand.



-mpg





From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:57 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

MPG:

Thanks for the clarification.

When you said "there is today no open source implementation of JP2 that is 
suitable for geo work" do you mean that there is no open source library that 
can read and write JP2? If so, who is using the format?

Do you know why there hasn't been a broader adoption of JP2?

(I should also add the MPG helped me publish a short article in support for 
open file formats, so I know he is on our side.)  :]

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658


____
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:55 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

Some clarifications:

- MrSID has both lossy and lossless modes
- MrSID is not fractal based; it uses wavelets (and arithmetic encoding)
- you can't copyright algorithms; the MrSID source code certainly is, however
- MrSID relies on a number of patents, not all of which are owned by LizardTech
- reading MrSID does not require any fees; we have libraries you can download, 
although they are not open source

That said, some editorial comments (although I'm now wishing I hadn't been so 
quick to rise to Landon's bait :-)

- Some of you know the history of trying to open source MrSID; I won't go into 
that here, except to say that LizardTech doesn't own all of the required IP 
needed to make that happen.
- If we are speaking of the NAIP data, then no, it is not exclusively available 
in MrSID format; it is also shipped as GeoTIFFs.
- JPEG 2000 is a very robust open standard alternative to MrSID, and a number 
of players already support it (including LizardTech), but not enough to make it 
viable for certain domains like NAIP.
- some of you also know the history on open JP2 support: there is today no open 
source implementation of JP2 that is suitable for geo work.  Alas.

-mpg


From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Eric Wolf
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:15 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary Algorithms

The MRSID format is a very special case - and perhaps an opportunity for a new 
FOSS file format. MRSID is a lossless, fractal-based, multi-scale raster 
compression format. LizardTech has the algorithms to encode and decode MRSID 
locked up in copyrights, and I believe, patents. Even companies like ESRI shell 
out big bucks to LizardTech to be able to read and write the MRSID format.

I guess I missed the context of the discussion. Is the government releasing 
certain data exclusively in this format? If so, I think the argument can be 
made against this practice. The different in compression between MRSID and 
gziped TIFFs isn't really that great in this day of cheap disks and fat pipes.

-Eric

-=--=---===---=--=-=--=---=---