Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On 9/06/10 10:40 AM, "P Kishor" wrote: > The last thing that anyone wants is for a major player to implement a poor > quality application and have problems with the bad publicity that would > follow. > > We cannot expect that knowledgeable OS Spatial people will always be doing > product selection. This is often a function assigned to an IT group through > Enterprise IT Governance processes. The people doing the selection, may or > may not have appropriate skills and experience. Due diligence, caveat emptor and all. If the people doing selection don't have appropriate skills and experience, then those people should be replaced with people who have the appropriate skills and experience to do the selection. Makes me shudder to think that not only might we have inexperienced and inappropriate people at the helm, we are willing to accept them there instead of changing them. The point that I was making is that Enterprise IT Governance processes often remove the product selection from the people specifying the Business Requirements. This is often an IT function. Spatial requirements are often seen as a Business function. In an ideal world, organisations would have people with appropriate IT, Spatial, OGC and OS Spatial skills making the recommendations. In the real world, we cannot expect that this will actually happen. Have you tried recruiting for people with appropriate IT, Spatial, OGC and OS Spatial skills lately (and at government wages...)? Bruce ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Bruce Bannerman wrote: > Cameron, > > Well stated. > > As an organisation that is implementing Open Source spatial, we are looking > to applications that have graduated from OSGeo Incubation as an indication > of quality. > > If this is not the case, as has been indicated in this thread, then IMHO, we > as OSGeo need to devise an approach that will allow organisations to select > quality applications for deployment. > > The last thing that anyone wants is for a major player to implement a poor > quality application and have problems with the bad publicity that would > follow. > > We cannot expect that knowledgeable OS Spatial people will always be doing > product selection. This is often a function assigned to an IT group through > Enterprise IT Governance processes. The people doing the selection, may or > may not have appropriate skills and experience. Due diligence, caveat emptor and all. If the people doing selection don't have appropriate skills and experience, then those people should be replaced with people who have the appropriate skills and experience to do the selection. Makes me shudder to think that not only might we have inexperienced and inappropriate people at the helm, we are willing to accept them there instead of changing them. > > Bruce > > > > > On 9/06/10 8:24 AM, "Cameron Shorter" wrote: > > Michael, > Your comments have been good in that they have made me think deeper > about what OSGeo stands for and then how we market that. Successful > product companies first find out what the market wants, the build a > marketing message, then build the product to fit the market. Developing > a shiny product then discovering no-one wants it is a sad but common story. > > In our case, we have created a brand called "OSGeo Incubation". What > does that mean? Why is it valuable? How can we get that message across > to our target market of GIS users who are interested in Open Source but > don't know what OSGeo is? > > If OSGeo Incubation doesn't represent quality or maturity (which is what > the market are looking for) then what is the point of spending years of > volunteer time going through incubation? > > I'm afraid that "OSGeo Project" is not a compelling sales message to our > target market, unless we can tie the message to quality or maturity (or > another word with similar meaning). > > Unless we can provide such positive marketing, I expect that we will > have spin off projects or organisations "defect" from OSGeo create their > own marketing message. (I wouldn't be surprise if OpenGeo had similar > thoughts before they created and then marketed the OpenGeo suite.) > > Marketing like everything else has positives and negatives. > Positives: > + Lots of users which draws in money and developers and we all make > money and thrive > > Negatives: > - We need to distill our messages down into marketing sound bytes and > generalised rating systems and the like > > - We need to be honest in describing ours and others projects because > that is what the market wants to hear before they will spend money on us > > > On 08/06/10 09:17, Michael P. Gerlek wrote: >> Since this is an OSGeo-based CD, presumably with the OSGeo logo all over >> it in various places, I'd suggest there are only three kinds of projects: >> >> - those which are "Approved by OSGeo" >> - those which are "Undergoing OSGeo Approval" >> - everything else >> >> With two simple logos you can indicate projects of the first two >> categories; I don't think much explanation should be required up front, >> especially if one avoids jargon words like "graduated" and "incubation". >> >> -mpg >> >> >> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org >> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter >> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:57 PM >> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org >> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating >> >> There have been some passionate views against rating projects. >> >> Maybe I should start by explaining the drivers which led to the proposal >> for a 5 star rating. >> >> Previously only OSGeo graduated and incubation projects were promoted by >> OSGeo at conferences and the like, however, with the OSGeo LiveDVD, we are >> packaging and hence promoting many non-graduated projects. How do we credit >> that a project has gone through the extensive graduation process in our >> marketing material in a manner that will be understood by the target >> audience? >> >> Unfortunately, putting "OSGeo Graduated" against a project is meaningless >> because the target audience usually hasn't heard of OSGeo and is even less >> likely to know what "Graduated" means. >> >> We could write a paragrah explaining what OSGeo and Graduation are on each >> Project Overview flier, but that wastes valuable marketing real-estate. >> >> Note: I'm basing our target audience on the typical profile of people who >> drop by the OSGeo booth at conferences. They pick up a LiveDVD and fli
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Cameron, Well stated. As an organisation that is implementing Open Source spatial, we are looking to applications that have graduated from OSGeo Incubation as an indication of quality. If this is not the case, as has been indicated in this thread, then IMHO, we as OSGeo need to devise an approach that will allow organisations to select quality applications for deployment. The last thing that anyone wants is for a major player to implement a poor quality application and have problems with the bad publicity that would follow. We cannot expect that knowledgeable OS Spatial people will always be doing product selection. This is often a function assigned to an IT group through Enterprise IT Governance processes. The people doing the selection, may or may not have appropriate skills and experience. Bruce On 9/06/10 8:24 AM, "Cameron Shorter" wrote: Michael, Your comments have been good in that they have made me think deeper about what OSGeo stands for and then how we market that. Successful product companies first find out what the market wants, the build a marketing message, then build the product to fit the market. Developing a shiny product then discovering no-one wants it is a sad but common story. In our case, we have created a brand called "OSGeo Incubation". What does that mean? Why is it valuable? How can we get that message across to our target market of GIS users who are interested in Open Source but don't know what OSGeo is? If OSGeo Incubation doesn't represent quality or maturity (which is what the market are looking for) then what is the point of spending years of volunteer time going through incubation? I'm afraid that "OSGeo Project" is not a compelling sales message to our target market, unless we can tie the message to quality or maturity (or another word with similar meaning). Unless we can provide such positive marketing, I expect that we will have spin off projects or organisations "defect" from OSGeo create their own marketing message. (I wouldn't be surprise if OpenGeo had similar thoughts before they created and then marketed the OpenGeo suite.) Marketing like everything else has positives and negatives. Positives: + Lots of users which draws in money and developers and we all make money and thrive Negatives: - We need to distill our messages down into marketing sound bytes and generalised rating systems and the like - We need to be honest in describing ours and others projects because that is what the market wants to hear before they will spend money on us On 08/06/10 09:17, Michael P. Gerlek wrote: > Since this is an OSGeo-based CD, presumably with the OSGeo logo all over it > in various places, I'd suggest there are only three kinds of projects: > > - those which are "Approved by OSGeo" > - those which are "Undergoing OSGeo Approval" > - everything else > > With two simple logos you can indicate projects of the first two categories; > I don't think much explanation should be required up front, especially if one > avoids jargon words like "graduated" and "incubation". > > -mpg > > > From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org > [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:57 PM > To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating > > There have been some passionate views against rating projects. > > Maybe I should start by explaining the drivers which led to the proposal for > a 5 star rating. > > Previously only OSGeo graduated and incubation projects were promoted by > OSGeo at conferences and the like, however, with the OSGeo LiveDVD, we are > packaging and hence promoting many non-graduated projects. How do we credit > that a project has gone through the extensive graduation process in our > marketing material in a manner that will be understood by the target audience? > > Unfortunately, putting "OSGeo Graduated" against a project is meaningless > because the target audience usually hasn't heard of OSGeo and is even less > likely to know what "Graduated" means. > > We could write a paragrah explaining what OSGeo and Graduation are on each > Project Overview flier, but that wastes valuable marketing real-estate. > > Note: I'm basing our target audience on the typical profile of people who > drop by the OSGeo booth at conferences. They pick up a LiveDVD and fliers > which have "Open Source" on the cover. They are typically GIS users, have > heard of Open Source and want to know what Open Source packages are available > to replace their existing , but usually haven't heard of OSGeo and almost > certainly don't know about the graduation process. They want to know about > the best 2 or 3 packakges they should consider, and they definitely don't > want to have to trawl through 350 software packages on http://freegis.org . > They spend 5 to 20 minutes talking at the OSGeo stand, then walk onto the > other 50 exhibition booths at the con
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Jason / Cameron, >From the potential utiliser / implementer viewpoint: I'd like to think that any project that has graduated OSGeo Incubation could be considered a quality project with all of the vectors described by Andrea. This proposed rating system implies that this may not be the case. Comments? Bruce On 6/06/10 10:14 AM, "Jason Birch" wrote: Wow, I'm really having opinions this week :) IMHO getting into rating projects is just asking for trouble, infighting, bitterness, and people/projects walking away from OSGeo. Jason On 5 June 2010 16:37, Cameron Shorter wrote: Andrea and others, does this fit with people's expectations? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss