Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
dloose;295205 Wrote: > why does the SB v3 seem to top out at 3-5 Mb/sec (at least using the > built-in test plug-in)? It doesn't, that's just the network test plugin's maximum. Streaming audio files, you'll never need to go higher than about 5 Mbps, which would be 24/96 WAV (4608 kbps). -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
I'm just curious - If maximum bandwidth of .11g is 54 Mb/s and typical throughput is about 19 Mb/s, why does the SB v3 seem to top out at 3-5 Mb/sec (at least using the built-in test plug-in)? I'm using the SB in bridge mode to a Denon 3808CI and get not-infrequent drop-outs. -- dloose dloose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
seanadams;262463 Wrote: > I am looking at our bridging implementation, and it is designed to > forward to all ports in the event of a unicast packet whose MAC is not > in its table. It is not clear to me if this is our problem or if > something else is going on, so I am hesitant to open a bug without > knowing any specifics. > > It would be helpful to know whether the access point is actually > sending the packet out to the wireless lan in the first place. To test > that, put a wireless PC on it and run ethereal. I am not sure but I > think you can monitor unicast traffic to other hosts that way without > any special setup - you probably would need to disable encryption. I was so happy getting the thing to work, that I thought of not doing any further investigations. But, as you seem to be concerned, I took my laptop and started testing. Based on my non-scientific approach, it seems that the access point (ADSL-modem w/ WLAN) is the one to blame! So, I'd say that there is no need dig further on SB3's bridging implementation. As I had windump already installed, I used it on two machines, other being on the LAN and the other on WLAN. On ADSL modem I had two IP addresses with static ARP, the other with the real one and the other with MAC broadcast. Then I changed several times the IP address where the modem should forward the WOL-packet coming from dslreports.com. Not a single packet appeared on the WLAN with the real MAC address, but when I changed the address to the broadcast MAC, they were nicely printed out on the screen of the laptop on WLAN. All packets of course were received by the PC on LAN. I will make a note for the tech guys at ADSL modem manufacturer. Best regards, Mika -- hau hau's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
I am looking at our bridging implementation, and it is designed to forward to all ports in the event of a unicast packet whose MAC is not in its table. It is not clear to me if this is our problem or if something else is going on, so I am hesitant to open a bug without knowing any specifics. It would be helpful to know whether the access point is actually sending the packet out to the wireless lan in the first place. To test that, put a wireless PC on it and run ethereal. I am not sure but I think you can monitor unicast traffic to other hosts that way - you probably would need to disable encryption. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
seanadams;262284 Wrote: > Hmm. So here's an idea: try making that static ARP entry point to the > broadcast MAC: "FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF". > > This is a very strange and generally inadviseable thing as if it works, > it will let someone on the internet create broadcast traffic on your > LAN. However it would be an interesting test to do, although it is > possible that your router will (justifiably) refuse to send the packet > to the broadcast MAC via a static ARP entry. However if it works then > maybe firewalling that port to only allow your remote IP to reach it > would be acceptable to you. > The idea was more than interesting to test, it also worked. Thank you very much! I will have to go thru of course the security issues. (Security by obscurity might not be enough...) The firewall allows me to restrict outside connections to my LAN, so that shouldn't be a problem. seanadams;262284 Wrote: > > Another thing to try would be to use a port redirect to send it to the > broadcast IP, usually X.X.X.255. That was my first idea, but (not surprisingly) the router configuration interface didn't allow that. Best regards, Mika -- hau hau's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
hau;262161 Wrote: > The problem is that the packet which is sent from the internet is > otherwise structured as a WOL packet, but in fact is a UDP packet sent > to a certain address (unicast). (My ADSL router then forwards it > internally to the specified address.) > Hmm. So here's an idea: try making that static ARP entry point to the broadcast MAC: "FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF". This is a very strange and generally inadviseable thing as if it works, it will let someone on the internet create broadcast traffic on your LAN. However it would be an interesting test to do, although it is possible that your router will (justifiably) refuse to send the packet to the broadcast MAC via a static ARP entry. However if it works then maybe firewalling that port to only allow your remote IP to reach it would be acceptable to you. Another thing to try would be to use a port redirect to send it to the broadcast IP, usually X.X.X.255. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
seanadams;262142 Wrote: > The WOL packet is a broadcast so it shouldn't matter, but to answer your > question I believe if it doesn't know it will behave like a hub and send > it to all ports. The problem is that the packet which is sent from the internet is otherwise structured as a WOL packet, but in fact is a UDP packet sent to a certain address (unicast). (My ADSL router then forwards it internally to the specified address.) I have now used windump (tcpdump) and found out that the packet actually comes to my net and is destined to the right IP. I hope to find a PC with wireless card for the weekend to check that the packet is also sent over the air. Then, I think, it is easier to track down the problem. Cheers, Mika -- hau hau's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
hau;262108 Wrote: > What happens when it doesn't know who's on which side? > The WOL packet is a broadcast so it shouldn't matter, but to answer your question I believe if it doesn't know it will behave like a hub and send it to all ports. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
seanadams;172362 Wrote: > When the SB3 is operating in bridging mode, it keeps track of who is on > the ethernet side and who is on the wireless side - it knows where to > send a packet. > What happens when it doesn't know who's on which side? Reason I'm asking this, is that I'm trying to use WOL to wake up my living room PC from internet (using e.g. dslreports.com's wakeup service http://www.dslreports.com/wakeup). If I send a WOL magic packet from my local net it of course spreads via WLAN to SB3 and, as it is a broadcast packet, SB3 forwards it to the ethernet port and the PC wakes up. When I'm using the dslreports' 'service' the packet comes to my network as a _unicast_ packet. I have configured my ADSL-modem/router with static ARP for the PC, and a rule to forward UDP port 9 packets to the PC's IP address. When I've connected the PC to one of the ADSL-modem/router's ethernet ports send the packet from internet, my PC wakes up. When I place the PC on SB3's ethernet port and send the packet from the same site the PC stays powered off. In my understanding there might be two reasons for this. - Either the ADSL device forgets to forward the packet to WLAN along with all the ethernet ports, or - SB3 drops the packet as it doesn't know that the addressee is on its ethernet port. After some email exchange with the tech guys from modem manufacturer, they assure me that all packets that are distributed to the ethernet ports will also be sent to WLAN. If this is the case, then the SB3 drops the packet and I'd like to know whether it would be possible to change the behavior of SB3's IP stack in such a way, that if it doesn't know (no entry in ARP table?) the recipients 'location' on the net, it would forward the packet? Best regards, Mika -- hau hau's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
So the last thing I tried was to power the router on last, but that didn't help. Does anyone know why the router might be breaking the 'bridging' of the sb? I would have thought it should be completely passive. I can't really use this configuration without a router, or a switch in place - not sure if a different router, or a switch instead would work. Thanks -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
I remember having a problem with a Netgear wireless bridge I bought for linking my PS2 to my network. The bridge couldn't connect to the network initially with WEP enabled, but if I disabled WEP it worked, then set it to 64bit WEP, and still worked, then 128bit still worked. I just figured that it was something to do with settings corruption. Reported it to both Netgear & Belkin, but go no answer from either. With a few wireless components around the house, it's a pain to visit each one changing channels, keys etc.. when testing these sort of issues. I was lucky enough to be able to run with WEP disabled until about 6 months ago when I found the neighbours sponging off my connection. -- oreillymj oreillymj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=699 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Mark Lanctot;179995 Wrote: > ...how would that work? The player hasn't connected to the network yet, > how can SlimServer push the data to it? > > I agree, entering in a passphrase is a pain, but I can't think of any > alternatives. You could only change things once the sb was on the network, but that could easily be achieved via either a temporary ethernet cable, or a temporary wireless security setup. Once connected, you can then change the wireless settings via the web interface as often as you like, as long as you first change them on the sb, then on the wireless ap. -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
bludragon;179977 Wrote: > btw, if I ever have to type a full length randomly generated WPA key in > again using the sb remote I think I might just go nuts... Any change > of putting network settings in the web interface (with appropriate > WARNING for the foolish)? ...how would that work? The player hasn't connected to the network yet, how can SlimServer push the data to it? I agree, entering in a passphrase is a pain, but I can't think of any alternatives. -- Mark Lanctot "It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response." - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Found a cable, took the hub out of the loop, and now it works. btw, if I ever have to type a full length randomly generated WPA key in again using the sb remote I think I might just go nuts... Any change of putting network settings in the web interface (with appropriate WARNING for the foolish)? -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
My set-up is: NSLU2> SB3> Wireless (Netgear DG834, 128bit WEP)> PC1 (WinXP), PC2 (Linux). I can ping all the units on the network and can access Slimserver running on any of the network PCs and NSLU2 which is also a NAS from the SB3. I am using DHCP but each network device has a preallocated IP. I can connect and disconnect the NSLU2 and the bridged link recovers when reconnected. Similarly, if I disable the WAP access, the SB3 remains connected to the wired NSLU Slimserver. -- Ramage P2 266MHz,Linux ClarkConnect 3.2, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11354, Alien 1.06 P4 2.6GHz, Win XP, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11304 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252, Alien 1.06 NSLU2 Unslung 6.8b SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8476 - Linux, No Alien Ramage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5343 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
I'm not using ad-hoc mode either. I tried downgrading to the firmware with slimserver 6.5.0 (FW 65 I think), turned bridging off, then back on, and it didn't work, then FW 55 (6.3.1), and it still didn't work. When going back to FW 55 I needed to re-enter the WPA key. I didn't have much time to play with it, but the symptoms were the same in all cases - if I set the ip of the wired server manually, I can ping the squeezebox, but nothing on the wireless network, and the squeezebox cannot connect to the server. Will try a factory reset tonight and let you know what happens. -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Ramage;179625 Wrote: > Leaving my wireless bridge set-up in place, I upgraded the SB3 to FW 72. > > > On restart, the bridge worked as expected. BTW upgrading to FW72 does > not require the connection to be set up from scratch, so that the > bridge settings were left in place from FW55. > > The problem seems to be that FW72 does not allow a bridge to be set up > properly. Sean I am unable to replicate the previous failure with FW 72 at present and I haven't tried an ad-hoc connection. Maybe the full reset by switching to FW55 and back to FW72 cleared the problem - or maybe it was operator error ;-)! Perhaps Bludragon can report how he got on. -- Ramage P2 266MHz,Linux ClarkConnect 3.2, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11354, Alien 1.06 P4 2.6GHz, Win XP, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11304 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252, Alien 1.06 NSLU2 Unslung 6.8b SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8476 - Linux, No Alien Ramage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5343 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
In the test I did recently, bridging in FW72 worked fine _except_ in Ad-hoc mode. No problems bridging to a Linksys AP. If we're all seeing the same thing then we should open a bug. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Thanks Ramage, If I get a chance later today I will try to revert to fw v55 to see if it works. -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Leaving my wireless bridge set-up in place, I upgraded the SB3 to FW 72. On restart, the bridge worked as expected. BTW upgrading to FW72 does not require the connection to be set up from scratch, so that the bridge settings were left in place from FW55. The problem seems to be that FW72 does not allow a bridge to be set up properly. -- Ramage P2 266MHz,Linux ClarkConnect 3.2, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11354, Alien 1.06 P4 2.6GHz, Win XP, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11304 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252, Alien 1.06 NSLU2 Unslung 6.8b SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8476 - Linux, No Alien Ramage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5343 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Ramage;179405 Wrote: > My test setup worked OK; however I was using SS v6.3.1 and SB3 FW > version 55. > > I tried the same setup today but with SS 5.6.2 FW 72 and the wireless > bridge did not work. Looks like the FW update may have broken it. Tested my setup today after downgrading the SB to FW v55, and it worked as you might expect it to, and as explained by Sean in a previous post on this thread. Conclude that the FW v72 has broken the wireless bridge, (I have no means of testing FW builds in-between). -- Ramage P2 266MHz,Linux ClarkConnect 3.2, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11354, Alien 1.06 P4 2.6GHz, Win XP, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11304 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252, Alien 1.06 NSLU2 Unslung 6.8b SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8476 - Linux, No Alien Ramage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5343 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
Ramage;172228 Wrote: > Just to test the feasibility of your proposal I set up the following: > > * NSLU NAS+Slimserver connected to SB3 with crossover ethernet cable > * Set up wireless bridge to my main network. > > Entered all required IP addresses for my network and it worked > perfectly. > > I am able to connect the SB directly to the Slimserver on the NSLU > through the cable and also access the NSLU from my PC over the wireless > bridge, as if it was connected directly to the network. The NSLU is also > able to access the internet through the default gateway. > > Looks like what you propose will work OK My test setup worked OK; however I was using SS v6.3.1 and SB3 FW version 55. I tried the same setup today but with SS 5.6.2 FW 72 and the wireless bridge did not work. Looks like the FW update may have broken it. -- Ramage P2 266MHz,Linux ClarkConnect 3.2, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11354, Alien 1.06 P4 2.6GHz, Win XP, SlimServer Version: 6.5.2 - 11304 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252, Alien 1.06 NSLU2 Unslung 6.8b SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8476 - Linux, No Alien Ramage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5343 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
ok, it officially doesn't work for me :-( -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Wireless bridge question
seanadams;172362 Wrote: > That is not what should happen at all. When the SB3 is operating in > bridging mode, it keeps track of who is on the ethernet side and who is > on the wireless side - it knows where to send a packet. > > Telling it to connect wirelessly just means that you want to configure > the wireless interface, but when bridging is enabled, both interfaces > are "equal". In fact it is equivalent to a three-port ethernet switch. > One interface is the ethernet port, one is the wireless port, and one > is "virtually" connected to the SB3's IP stack. > > So although that setup sounds convoluted, it really isn't... as far as > the internal bridge is concerned, there is nothing unusual about it, > and at the IP level none of it is even visible. I enabled bridging last night, with the hope of creating the following network: wireless internet gateway/router <-- wireless --> sb2 <-- wire --> hub <-- wire --> slimserver Both the sb and server were set to use DHCP, with the router supplying ip addresses etc. Squeezebox connected to the network ok, and could connect to squeezenetwork, but not my own server. Meanwhile my server did not get DHCP. Setting it's ip manually (to use the router as a gateway) meant it could ping the squeezebox, but not access the internet, or be accessed by the squeezebox. I'm using slimserver 6.5.1 with matching firmware At that point I gave up thinking this type of scenario simply hadn't been tested, but that the solution would be exactly what Sean has described above. Having now read Sean's post, I'm keen to hear any ideas as to where I might have gone wrong? One thing I just though of, is do the pc's on the wired portion of the network need to treat the squeezebox as the gateway, rather than the wireless router - means none of them can have dhcp, but that shouldn't be a huge issue - will try this tonight... -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Wireless bridge question
If I connect my server to a squeezebox 2 with the ethernet cable, can I then access the server wirelessly using the Wireless bridge function in the squeezebox, without having to have a seperate wireless access card in the server. I just want to use a VERY simple stripped down server. -- Puggie Puggie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9718 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31850 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
