Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread PAUL WILLIAMSON
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/05/05 2:22 PM >>>

> Since when does a wife choose ANYTHING over bitching about 
> something the husband loves?  (heehee)

So true!  But, when she gets her picture in a magazine 8-)

> I've got a Logitech Harmony 880 remote which is quite nice/flexible,


That IS a nice remote.  Been thinking about one myself for another 
project I dabble in (mythtv).

Paul

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Danny Rego

A kid with a fresh mind is one thing, but a technology-fearing wife
is a whole other ball game.


Then get her to not fear technology.  It only took me about 3 months.
Now she can surf through listening to any Paris radio station through
shoutcast, or with a few clicks, over to listening to some classic
Polka
from our wedding cassettes (converted to mp3).


Since when does a wife choose ANYTHING over bitching about something the 
husband loves?  (heehee)




If you have an inferior remote that you can't program with JP-1, then
yep, you are up the proverbial creek sans paddle.



I've got a Logitech Harmony 880 remote which is quite nice/flexible, but I 
still had to go with the NON-SB...NON-JVCDVD settings for it (for various 
reasons)...anyways...if anyone's interested in my .IR file, let me know.  It 
uses Zenith DVD codes...I'll probably post it on my blog as soon as I'm done 
with it.


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread PAUL WILLIAMSON
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/05/05 11:41 AM >>>



>  Well...what can I say to that...people have accidentally held 
> down the skip track button to have it fast forward, and they 
> would wonnder why the song sounds funny as it clicks, and 
> pops forward through the song.  I've had questions about how 
> to get back to the main menu to browse again...etc.   It's easy 
> stuff to learn/remember, but questions, and honest mistakes that 
> can be avoided with a few more buttons.

Ok, I see what you are saying...not that I agree, but I understand.
If anyone has listened to a digital track (or watched one for that 
matter), they will know what that clicking and popping is immediately,

although there doesn't appear to be an easy way to stop it with the 
SD remote.  Once you get to know the remote (mostly trial and 
error), it is quite easy to stop (and resume normal playing).

> > My 5 year old uses the remote with no issues.  She doesn't even 
> > ask how to find Cheeseburger in Paradise or Fins anymore.
> 
> A kid with a fresh mind is one thing, but a technology-fearing wife 
> is a whole other ball game.

Then get her to not fear technology.  It only took me about 3 months.
Now she can surf through listening to any Paris radio station through 
shoutcast, or with a few clicks, over to listening to some classic
Polka
from our wedding cassettes (converted to mp3).

> > I'm not saying a better, more featureful remote wouldn't be a nice
> > option.  I'm just saying if all your going to do is use it to
program
> > another remote and put it away, it would seem there should be a
> > better way to accomplish the programming of the universal remote.
>
> To setup a universal remote properly, more often than not, you need 
> to move the default buttons around, by learning/relearning buttons 
> from the original remote.  If that's required...there's no way to
LEARN 
> the "FAST FORWARD" command from the current SB remoteand if 
> you don't have an original JVC DVD remote, you can't learn it from 
> that either (and use the jvc codes instead).  It's kinda hard to
explain, 
> but there is method to my madness on this one.


If you have an inferior remote that you can't program with JP-1, then 
yep, you are up the proverbial creek sans paddle.  


Although the FF/RW is an almost commonplace modification.  It's like 
that on a lot of mp3 portables to save space.

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Danny Rego
If your target user is someone who doesn't want to learn how to make the 
system work, you're going to make changes in pursuit of an impossible 
goal. Those changes will make things harder for the core audience.


Udedicated pause, fast forward, and rewind buttons will make things 
harder for the core audience?!?  Anything that faces end-users should be as 
intuitive as possible...unless of course, you risk losing 
functionality/power etc...


Better to take a page from IT Marketing's playbook: Declare pre-emptively 
that your system is more friendly, easier-to-use, faster, better for the 
corporate market, whatever. Suppress any evidence to the contrary, trumpet 
any evidence supporting your claim, and keep at it until it becomes common 
knowledge. Never mind tautologies, no one with the power to influence 
common knowledge will notice them.


...anyways...I could go off on a rant here, but really, I just thought it 
would be nice to have a few more buttons on the remote...I didn't come here 
to argue.


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Jack Coates

Danny Rego wrote:

For one, this whole setup is NOT for the average joe (six-pack, to use
your examples).  But like I've said, everyone has their opinions.
I've not had a problem with "intuitiveness."



Striving to make something average-joe friendly should ALWAYS be the 
goal, but I understand what you're saying.


...



A kid with a fresh mind is one thing, but a technology-fearing wife is a 
whole other ball game.


Here's the dichotomy that you need to understand before calling for 
change to make average joe happy: Desire to learn. People, whether 
average or not, will only learn as much as they need to get what they want.


If your target user is someone who doesn't want to learn how to make the 
system work, you're going to make changes in pursuit of an impossible 
goal. Those changes will make things harder for the core audience.


Better to take a page from IT Marketing's playbook: Declare 
pre-emptively that your system is more friendly, easier-to-use, faster, 
better for the corporate market, whatever. Suppress any evidence to the 
contrary, trumpet any evidence supporting your claim, and keep at it 
until it becomes common knowledge. Never mind tautologies, no one with 
the power to influence common knowledge will notice them.


--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip since 1996!
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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Danny Rego

For one, this whole setup is NOT for the average joe (six-pack, to use
your examples).  But like I've said, everyone has their opinions.
I've not had a problem with "intuitiveness."


Striving to make something average-joe friendly should ALWAYS be the goal, 
but I understand what you're saying.



Just hand the remote to someone, and see how long it is before
you get the "how do I do this or that" questions!


I did that.  It's been almost 2 years and have had one question -
and it was related to making up a playlist of shoutcase urls.
Certainly
not something any remote would be able to handle short of my
pda.


Well...what can I say to that...people have accidentally held down the skip 
track button to have it fast forward, and they would wonnder why the song 
sounds funny as it clicks, and pops forward through the song.  I've had 
questions about how to get back to the main menu to browse again...etc. 
It's easy stuff to learn/remember, but questions, and honest mistakes that 
can be avoided with a few more buttons.



My 5 year old uses the remote with no issues.  She doesn't even ask
how to find Cheeseburger in Paradise or Fins anymore.


A kid with a fresh mind is one thing, but a technology-fearing wife is a 
whole other ball game.



I'm not saying a better, more featureful remote wouldn't be a nice
option.  I'm just saying if all your going to do is use it to program
another remote and put it away, it would seem there should be a
better way to accomplish the programming of the universal remote.


To setup a universal remote properly, more often than not, you need to move 
the default buttons around, by learning/relearning buttons from the original 
remote.  If that's required...there's no way to LEARN the "FAST FORWARD" 
command from the current SB remoteand if you don't have an original JVC 
DVD remote, you can't learn it from that either (and use the jvc codes 
instead).  It's kinda hard to explain, but there is method to my madness on 
this one.


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Danny Rego

Can you be more specific about what's "terrible" about the remote?


This is just my opinion...take from it what you will...

I don't like the multifunction buttons.  I would rather see dedicated 
FF/REW/PAUSE buttons.  A few other quick access buttons would be nice as 
well, such as "ALBUMS", "ARTISTS", "PLAYLISTS", "GENRES" that would just 
take you directly to the appropriate browse locations.


I know that you wouldn't want to overwhelm people with an overly complicated 
remote, but I think those few extra buttons would make the SB much easier 
(more intuitive) to use.


Those are the basic shortcomings of the current remote as I see them.  There 
are some other aesthetic things I don't like as well, such as the remote 
feeling, and looking cheap, as well as that it's a little too small for my 
liking (one man's gold = one man's junk...I know).


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread PAUL WILLIAMSON
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/05/05 10:24 AM >>>
> > So you want a new remote so you can use another remote?  Odd.
>
> It's not odd...it's the reason some use the JVC DVD remote 
> codes.dedicated FF/REW/PAUSE buttons for starters.  It's a pain 
> for the average joe to dick around at this level.  Especially when
you 
> are talking universal learning remote, and you don't have a JVC DVD 
> remote to start with, and the default button layout is
non-intuitive.

For one, this whole setup is NOT for the average joe (six-pack, to use

your examples).  But like I've said, everyone has their opinions.
I've not had a problem with "intuitiveness." 

> > A Turn-off to you.  One of the reasons I love the squeezebox is 
> > the simplicity of the remote.  I use my universal remote, but my 
> > wife and kids use the squeezebox remote.  It's simple and gets 
> > the job done.  If I wanted something more spectacular, I'd use 
> > my WiFi pda.
>
> "Simple and gets the job done" is fine and dandy, but how about 
> intuitive...I doubt that dedicated FF/REW/PAUSE buttons would 
> make the remote intimidating.
>
> Just hand the remote to someone, and see how long it is before 
> you get the "how do I do this or that" questions!

I did that.  It's been almost 2 years and have had one question - 
and it was related to making up a playlist of shoutcase urls. 
Certainly 
not something any remote would be able to handle short of my 
pda.

My 5 year old uses the remote with no issues.  She doesn't even ask 
how to find Cheeseburger in Paradise or Fins anymore.

I'm not saying a better, more featureful remote wouldn't be a nice 
option.  I'm just saying if all your going to do is use it to program 
another remote and put it away, it would seem there should be a
better way to accomplish the programming of the universal remote.

Paul

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread Danny Rego

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/04/05 9:16 AM >>>

I'd like to see a new remote with more buttons, just for the simple
reason that I'd like to easily program my universal remote with all

of

the  new/extra buttons.


So you want a new remote so you can use another remote?  Odd.


It's not odd...it's the reason some use the JVC DVD remote 
codes.dedicated FF/REW/PAUSE buttons for starters.  It's a pain for the 
average joe to dick around at this level.  Especially when you are talking 
universal learning remote, and you don't have a JVC DVD remote to start 
with, and the default button layout is non-intuitive.



(I have done so using an old ZENITH DVD remote, but it's not the
sameand far more work than it's worth)

The standard remote that comes with the SB is TERRIBLE, and a
definite turn-off.


A Turn-off to you.  One of the reasons I love the squeezebox is the
simplicity of the remote.  I use my universal remote, but my wife
and kids use the squeezebox remote.  It's simple and gets the job
done.  If I wanted something more spectacular, I'd use my WiFi pda.


"Simple and gets the job done" is fine and dandy, but how about 
intuitive...I doubt that dedicated FF/REW/PAUSE buttons would make the 
remote intimidating.


Just hand the remote to someone, and see how long it is before you get the 
"how do I do this or that" questions!


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-05 Thread PAUL WILLIAMSON
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/04/05 9:16 AM >>>
> I'd like to see a new remote with more buttons, just for the simple 
> reason that I'd like to easily program my universal remote with all
of 
> the  new/extra buttons.

So you want a new remote so you can use another remote?  Odd.

> (I have done so using an old ZENITH DVD remote, but it's not the 
> sameand far more work than it's worth)
>
> The standard remote that comes with the SB is TERRIBLE, and a
> definite turn-off.

A Turn-off to you.  One of the reasons I love the squeezebox is the 
simplicity of the remote.  I use my universal remote, but my wife 
and kids use the squeezebox remote.  It's simple and gets the job
done.  If I wanted something more spectacular, I'd use my WiFi pda.

Nothing would be able to match its utility or functionality, no matter

how much time and effort was spent developing a new remote.

Paul

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-04 Thread Danny Rego
I notice the web server chugging if I have any of my devices using HUGE 
playlists (like all songs / random for example).  If I have all devices 
using small playlists (like ONE album for example), the web server is 
super-fast in all cases.


Danny Rego


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Benjamin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Slim Devices Discussion" 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?



On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 01:09:05PM +0200, Michael Herger wrote:
: >How much music have you got loaded, and what's your server hardware?
: >My server is a P4 with 640MB, with a 40GB OS drive and two 200GB music
: >drives.  The web interface was snappy when I had only a few dozen
: >albums, but with 330, it's downright sluggish.  For example, displaying
: >the artists list generally takes 5-10 seconds.  I'm not looking forward
: >to when I have all 1300 albums ripped to the system!
:
: I can't confirm this. While my server is much less powerful (VIA 
C3/1GHz,

: 512MB) I have >500 albums. The artist list takes less than 1 second to
: display. The album list is a little slower (1-2 seconds).

The difference may be OS.  I run slimserver on FreeBSD, and I believe
Michael runs it on Linux.  Mike, if you're using Windows, it may
explain it.  I wouldn't be surprised if Unix performed better than
Windows here..  it does with every thing else ;-).

--mikeb

:
: -- 
:

: Michael
:
: ---
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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-04 Thread Danny Rego
I'd like to see a new remote with more buttons, just for the simple reason 
that I'd like to easily program my universal remote with all of the 
new/extra buttons.


(I have done so using an old ZENITH DVD remote, but it's not the sameand 
far more work than it's worth)


The standard remote that comes with the SB is TERRIBLE, and a definite 
turn-off.


Danny Rego


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-02 Thread Michael Herger

Can anyone suggest what I might be doing wrong?


Hey, you're giving the answer yourself:


On thing, I'm not too sure of the syntax to reference drives using
Unix. I have tried many variations to get Slimserver to index my
files... should  sda1:\LosslessMusic  likely to work?


Nope, this is where you're wrong :-). Use /mnt/sda1/LosslessMusic instead  
(as you'd see it in mc's upper left corner). And be sure to match  
upper-/lowercase.



Odd things with this SlimCD installation include:
I get a funny keyboard layout which does not seem to change after I
have selected the UK layout


Interesting that's even funny for you. I always thought this was UK - is  
it US?



I've no idea what the big button below the little left and right arrows
on the drive status indicator panel is for.


This is the button to mount/unmount. For mounted drives it's green,  
unmounted black.



My mouse-pad does not work


On a laptop? Ist it USB (or don't you know)?

You could try to shut down the window manager and go back to the shell  
(text mode): right mouseclick on the desktop, "Windowmanager->Exit". Then  
run xsetup.sh from the shell. And when you're asked for USB mouse or  
IMPS/2 (whatever this is...), try to play with the different options. Then  
type "exit" to get back to the graphical environment.


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-02 Thread Michael Herger
I got quite excited by this. However, Slimserver does not seem able to  
read my Maxtor One Touch drive even though it is recognised as sda1 and  
I appear to be able to mount it.


And you have to mount it manually, this is not done automatically.

mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1

should do the job.

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RE: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-02 Thread Simon @ Home
> Mike - would you mind giving this a try? Download SlimCD from 
> my site and run slimserver from this livecd (it won't touch 
> nor hurt your existing installation).

I got quite excited by this. However, Slimserver does not seem able to read
my Maxtor One Touch drive even though it is recognised as sda1 and I appear
to be able to mount it. 

Simon  Turner
Barcombe UK

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Richie
> Which version of Slimserver do you use? Do you use wireless with flacs
> streamed as PCM (all 700 albums?). Is your Windows server decicated
> solely to Slimserver? Is there anything you can possibly think of that
> might make the perfomance of your Slimserver so much better than any
> installation I have ever had (on three separate machines, and a wide
> array of Slimserver versions)? Any info would be very appreciated
> indeed.
> 
> Simon Turner
> Barcombe UK

Only good news here too, I'm afraid. Browse Artists takes < 1s, Browse
Albums <2s. 940 albums by 490 artists. XP SP2, SlimServer 6.1
nightlies (but I only update at weekends just in case something goes
wrong). All connections are wired. Server is an Athlon 1.4 GHz with
768 MB RAM pretty much dedicated to SlimServer. I did also try it on
SUSE 9.2 a few months ago as a dual boot system and didn't really
notice any difference performance wise.

Richard
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RE: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Simon @ Home
> The difference may be OS.  I run slimserver on FreeBSD, and I 
> believe Michael runs it on Linux.  Mike, if you're using 
> Windows, it may explain it.  I wouldn't be surprised if Unix 
> performed better than Windows here..  it does with every 
> thing else ;-).

This is my suspicion too. Perhaps SlimServer ought to be listed as cross
platform if using less than 300 albums (or 200?) in flac format. Above 300
flac albums and you need Linux to run it acceptably. As I do not want to run
Linux (which would also mean having one PC dedicated solely to Slimserver,
and a learning curve I do not have the time for) I think Windows optimised
software for the Squeezebox is crucial for owners of large libraries. I just
wish I was capable of writing such a thing.

Simon Turner
Barcombe UK

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Michael Herger

The difference may be OS.  I run slimserver on FreeBSD, and I believe
Michael runs it on Linux.


Yes, I do.


Mike, if you're using Windows, it may
explain it.  I wouldn't be surprised if Unix performed better than
Windows here..


Mike - would you mind giving this a try? Download SlimCD from my site and  
run slimserver from this livecd (it won't touch nor hurt your existing  
installation). If you can access your music files from this system we  
could easily compare the performance of the two operating systems.


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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Mike Benjamin
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 01:09:05PM +0200, Michael Herger wrote:
: >How much music have you got loaded, and what's your server hardware?
: >My server is a P4 with 640MB, with a 40GB OS drive and two 200GB music
: >drives.  The web interface was snappy when I had only a few dozen
: >albums, but with 330, it's downright sluggish.  For example, displaying
: >the artists list generally takes 5-10 seconds.  I'm not looking forward
: >to when I have all 1300 albums ripped to the system!
: 
: I can't confirm this. While my server is much less powerful (VIA C3/1GHz,  
: 512MB) I have >500 albums. The artist list takes less than 1 second to  
: display. The album list is a little slower (1-2 seconds).

The difference may be OS.  I run slimserver on FreeBSD, and I believe
Michael runs it on Linux.  Mike, if you're using Windows, it may
explain it.  I wouldn't be surprised if Unix performed better than
Windows here..  it does with every thing else ;-).

--mikeb

: 
: -- 
: 
: Michael
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RE: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Simon @ Home
> My server is a P4 with 640MB, with a 40GB OS drive and two 
> 200GB music drives.  The web interface was snappy when I had 
> only a few dozen albums, but with 330, it's downright 
> sluggish.  For example, displaying the artists list generally 
> takes 5-10 seconds.  I'm not looking forward to when I have 
> all 1300 albums ripped to the system!

My main server is a 1.5ghz P4 with 1mb or RAM, and I have another another on
a 2.3ghz, 0.5mbRAM laptop, both running XP Pro SP2. I have about 650 albums
held in flac format on a 300gb Maxtor One Touch (USB 2). I stream PCM to a
Squeezebox 1 wirelessly. 
I find the web interface exasperatingly slow (not infrequently I get quite
annoyed waiting for it too list items and find myself cursing the thing).
About two weks ago I upgraded from SS 5.4.1 to the 6*** release listed on
the SlimDevices home page but found that there was no performance
improvement and that whenever I used the remote (my favoured method for
controlling my Squeezebox) to list the music the audio would stall for
seconds at a time (sometimes over 10!)and the bottons became unresponsive. I
reverted back to 5.4.1 as the behaviour of the Remote is better (but
certainly not perfect... it is still nowhere near as responsive to button
presses as I would like and listing music still takes far too long).

I'd hate to think what it would be like if I had 1300 albums (i.e. twice as
many as current)!

As I've stated before, I'd be very happy to pay for software that worked
much better in Windows (perhaps written in C++, but definitely not Java,
Perl or VB), with perhaps less functionality, as long as it was fast,
responsive, stable and immediate to use. I tend to use Foobar2000 as my
benchmark for this (someone is now going to tell me this is designed in
VB!). For me this is much more of a priority than a better remote. I use my
Squeezebox much less than I would otherwise because of the frustrating
performance of SlimServer on my machines.

Sorry to subvert the thread.

Simon Turner
Barcombe UK

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Michael Herger

How much music have you got loaded, and what's your server hardware?
My server is a P4 with 640MB, with a 40GB OS drive and two 200GB music
drives.  The web interface was snappy when I had only a few dozen
albums, but with 330, it's downright sluggish.  For example, displaying
the artists list generally takes 5-10 seconds.  I'm not looking forward
to when I have all 1300 albums ripped to the system!


I can't confirm this. While my server is much less powerful (VIA C3/1GHz,  
512MB) I have >500 albums. The artist list takes less than 1 second to  
display. The album list is a little slower (1-2 seconds).


--

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Mike Benjamin
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:32:43AM -0700, Justme wrote:
: 
: It is a thought. How responsive would this be? I mean, the standard
: remote is almost instant (well, sometimes it lags when browsing etc),
: but I find the web interface on the computer to be terrible.
: 
: I am used to using Jriver's media jukebox, and it is instant in
: respons, with the web interface, it takes ages for pages to refresh and
: to create a play list. For this reason, I create a playlist in media
: jukebox and then export it to slimserver.
: 
: Would a PDA have as slow an interface as the web slimserver, or be as
: fast as the remote?

The PDA solution mentioned would use the web interface.

However, it is within a second as fast as the infrared remote in my
experience.  You may want to check out your setup if it's as slow as
you describe.

For what it's worth, I just purchased an iPAQ rx3115, and am using it
as both the infrared remote and web controller.  It is working
beautifully, and replaced 3 remotes in all.  I purchased the rx3715
cradle to use with it on the end table, and a AC->USB power charger
so only one cable was coming out the back.  I then synchronize it to
the PC via bluetooth.  I am very pleased with it..  although it is
more expensive than other solutions.

--mikeb

: 
: 
: -- 
: Justme
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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-07-01 Thread Michael Herger

Would a PDA have as slow an interface as the web slimserver, or be as
fast as the remote?


Most use the web interface on their PDA - which is obviously as fast as  
slimserver's web interface is for you. There's a commercial product called  
telcanto which is said to be _very_ responsive on Pocket Windows PDAs. I  
have never used it, though.


--

Michael

---
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-06-30 Thread Aaron Zinck

"zuvembi"  wrote in message
>
> 
> A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
> results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=14863
> 
> Question: Would you be interested in a better remote?
>
> - No, I'm happy with the current design
> - Yes, it should be included with the SB
> - Yes, but I'm willing to buy a "designer" remote as an optional
>   extra.
> 
>
> I'd kill to add a single button, the minus key.
>
> I've lost count of the number of times I wanted to remove a single song
> from the list of playing songs.  No I don't want to add it to the zapped
> playlist, I just don't want to listen to it *right now*.
>


You can do this:  while holding down the "add" button zaps a song, pressing
it only momentarily while in the "Now Playing" list will simply delete it
from the current playlist.



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Re: [slim] Re: A better remote?

2005-06-30 Thread Aaron Zinck

> But to be hinest, I don't think this would offer any new functions on
> the remote to make it easier to use, just allow me to control all my
> devices (in a more limited way) with one remote.


You actually could (quite easily) add functionality--take a look at the .map
and .ir files...by modifying them you can make a remote do plenty of things
that the original remote didn't come configured to do.  And then with
plugins you could accomplish even more...



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