libobcj2 on GCC

[Steven R. Baker]

Hiya,

Who here best knows what needs to be done to bring GCC's objc up to date?  Is 
it as "simple" as porting libobjc2 to GCC?  I'd like to see GCC's 
implementation as the "gold standard."

Is there someone on this list I can pay out of my own pocket to work on this 
without absolutely breaking the bank?

I'd love to see it done, but I don't really have skills in compiler 
development.  (Although I'd love to learn.)

Cheers!

-Steven

GNUmail on macOS

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya,

Anyone running GNUmail on current macOS?

If not, I'll work on this.

Cheers!

-Steven

Re: FOSDEM!

[Steven R. Baker]

Sorry, that's my Fosstodon fediverse account.  I should've put @ in front to 
make it more clear.

> 31 jan. 2023 kl. 12:25 skrev Liam Proven :
> 
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 00:27, Steven R. Baker  wrote:
>> 
>> Heya!
>> 
>> I am traveling to FOSDEM!  I'd like to meet up with fellow GNUsteppers.
>> 
>> Please email me off-list for my mobile number.  Or, we can try and organize 
>> something here.
>> 
>> I'm also srba...@fosstodon.org.
> 
> The 2nd email address here bounced back undeliverable.
> 
> Anyway, yes, I plan to be there. Contact details in my sig.
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
> 

FOSDEM!

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya!

I am traveling to FOSDEM!  I'd like to meet up with fellow GNUsteppers.

Please email me off-list for my mobile number.  Or, we can try and organize 
something here.

I'm also srba...@fosstodon.org.

Cheers!

-Steven

Re: Updated invitation: GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 @ Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 7:30pm on the first Saturday 10 times (CET) (ste...@stevenrbaker.com)

[Steven R. Baker]

I'm good with next weekend.  I'll be there.

I'm going to mail discuss- separately to find FOSDEM attendees.

-Steven


> 31 jan. 2023 kl. 01:25 skrev Gregory Casamento :
> 
> I'm wondering if I shouldn't reschedule this for next weekend.   What do you 
> guys think?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 6:53 PM Steven R. Baker  <mailto:ste...@stevenrbaker.com>> wrote:
>> This arrives right in the middle of FOSDEM.
>> 
>> I'm at FOSDEM: what about other EU GNUsteppers?
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> -Steven
>> 
>> 
>>> 31 jan. 2023 kl. 00:50 skrev greg.casame...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:greg.casame...@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>>   
>>> This event has been updated
>>> Changed: time
>>>   
>>> I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize 
>>> most people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I 
>>> believe is convenient for most people. We have two months to go for this 
>>> so, if you would like to suggest a time please do so here on google 
>>> calendar.
>>> Ultimately I would like to move to an open-source/free software solution 
>>> for scheduling as well, but for right now Google Calendar will need to do.
>>> 
>>> Please note, I would very much like this meeting to be recorded so that we 
>>> can learn the most from the experience.
>>> 
>>> Yours always, GC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Click the following link to join the meeting from your computer: 
>>> https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably 
>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably=D=calendar=2=AOvVaw2BIHwAXsCLL2mE4fndchVq>
>>> =
>>> 
>>> Just want to dial in on your phone?
>>> 
>>> Call one of the following numbers: 
>>> Australia: +61.8.7150.1136
>>> Brazil: +55.21.3500.0112
>>> Canada: +1.437.538.3987
>>> France: +33.1.87.21.0005
>>> Japan: +81.3.4510.2372
>>> Netherlands: +31.85.208.1541
>>> Spain: +34.932.205.409
>>> Switzerland: +41.61.588.0496
>>> UK: +44.203.885.2179
>>> US: +1.512.647.1431
>>> 
>>> Dial your meeting ID: '4036948717' and you will be connected!
>>> 
>>> When
>>> CHANGED
>>> Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 7:30pm on the first Saturday 10 times 
>>> (Central European Time - Stockholm)
>>> Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 8:30pm on the first Saturday 12 times 
>>> (Central European Time - Stockholm)
>>> Location
>>> Jitsi Meeting - https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably 
>>> View map 
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Jitsi+Meeting+-+https:%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably+?hl=en>
>>> Guests
>>> greg.casame...@gmail.com <mailto:greg.casame...@gmail.com> - organizer
>>> fredkie...@gmx.de <mailto:fredkie...@gmx.de>
>>> h...@goldelico.com <mailto:h...@goldelico.com>
>>> frede...@algoriddim.com <mailto:frede...@algoriddim.com>
>>> mul...@gmail.com <mailto:mul...@gmail.com>
>>> ste...@stevenrbaker.com <mailto:ste...@stevenrbaker.com>
>>> h...@computer.org <mailto:h...@computer.org>
>>> nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk <mailto:nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk>
>>> iaml...@gmail.com <mailto:iaml...@gmail.com>
>>> Ryan Jackson <mailto:rjack...@outlook.com>
>>> Campbell, Larry <mailto:lcamp...@akamai.com>
>>> i...@vucica.net <mailto:i...@vucica.net>
>>> discuss-gnustep@gnu.org <mailto:discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>
>>> riccardo.mott...@libero.it <mailto:riccardo.mott...@libero.it>
>>> ape...@alexperez.com <mailto:ape...@alexperez.com>
>>> fe...@gnu.org <mailto:fe...@gnu.org>
>>> r...@gnu.org <mailto:r...@gnu.org>
>>> r...@gnu.org <mailto:r...@gnu.org>View all guest info 
>>> <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW=cG5tcnFjMDhhOGdiZ2hjdGd1MTczdXI0aG9fUjIwMjMwMjA0VDE3MzAwMCBzdGV2ZW5Ac3RldmVucmJha2VyLmNvbQ=MjQjZ3JlZy5jYXNhbWVudG9AZ21haWwuY29tMTFlYzU1ZmZjMjQ3Y2QwMWY1MzBiZjJmMWU2ZjE3NzRhYzdlNDA4MA=Europe%2FStockholm=en=1>
>>> RSVP for ste...@stevenrbaker.com <mailto:ste...@stevenrbaker.com> for all 
>>> events in this series
>>> Yes
>>>  
>>> <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND=cG5tcnFjMDhhOGdiZ2hjdGd1M

Re: Updated invitation: GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 @ Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 7:30pm on the first Saturday 10 times (CET) (ste...@stevenrbaker.com)

[Steven R. Baker]

This arrives right in the middle of FOSDEM.

I'm at FOSDEM: what about other EU GNUsteppers?

Cheers!

-Steven


> 31 jan. 2023 kl. 00:50 skrev greg.casame...@gmail.com:
> 
>   
> This event has been updated
> Changed: time
>   
> I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize most 
> people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I believe is 
> convenient for most people. We have two months to go for this so, if you 
> would like to suggest a time please do so here on google calendar.
> Ultimately I would like to move to an open-source/free software solution for 
> scheduling as well, but for right now Google Calendar will need to do.
> 
> Please note, I would very much like this meeting to be recorded so that we 
> can learn the most from the experience.
> 
> Yours always, GC
> 
> 
> Click the following link to join the meeting from your computer: 
> https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably 
> 
> =
> 
> Just want to dial in on your phone?
> 
> Call one of the following numbers: 
> Australia: +61.8.7150.1136
> Brazil: +55.21.3500.0112
> Canada: +1.437.538.3987
> France: +33.1.87.21.0005
> Japan: +81.3.4510.2372
> Netherlands: +31.85.208.1541
> Spain: +34.932.205.409
> Switzerland: +41.61.588.0496
> UK: +44.203.885.2179
> US: +1.512.647.1431
> 
> Dial your meeting ID: '4036948717' and you will be connected!
> 
> When
> CHANGED
> Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 7:30pm on the first Saturday 10 times (Central 
> European Time - Stockholm)
> Every 3 months from 6:30pm to 8:30pm on the first Saturday 12 times (Central 
> European Time - Stockholm)
> Location
> Jitsi Meeting - https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably 
> View map 
> 
> Guests
> greg.casame...@gmail.com  - organizer
> fredkie...@gmx.de 
> h...@goldelico.com 
> frede...@algoriddim.com 
> mul...@gmail.com 
> ste...@stevenrbaker.com 
> h...@computer.org 
> nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk 
> iaml...@gmail.com 
> Ryan Jackson 
> Campbell, Larry 
> i...@vucica.net 
> discuss-gnustep@gnu.org 
> riccardo.mott...@libero.it 
> ape...@alexperez.com 
> fe...@gnu.org 
> r...@gnu.org 
> r...@gnu.org View all guest info 
> 
> RSVP for ste...@stevenrbaker.com  for all 
> events in this series
> Yes
>  
> Yes
>  
> 
>No
>  
> No
>  
> 
> Maybe
>  
> Maybe
>  
> 

Re: Object Coverage UI Mockup

[Steven R. Baker]

Absolutely love this.  A similar project has been in my Someday/Maybe project 
list, and this is better than I had planned.

If you'd like some help on this, I'm certainly interested in whatever I can do!

Cheers!

-Steven


> 9 juni 2022 kl. 14:24 skrev Hugo Melder :
> 
> I presented some preliminary details on interactive object coverage in the 
> last quarterly meeting; Here are proper mockups of the UI fragments.
> 
> The Introspection Part
> There is a backend with a database that stores all classes, methods, and 
> protocols for different Mac OS X and GNUstep versions (and GNUstep upstream 
> using a GitHub web hook). All Objective-C headers are introspected with the 
> Etoile SourceCodeKit and stored in a PostgreSQL or SQLite database. A HTTP 
> frontend (preferably using JSON) accesses the underlying data and returns the 
> correct comparison.
> 
> The filter functionality in the frontend can be used to filter platform 
> dependent (e.g. XPC APIs), platform independent, Objective-C 2.0/Clang only 
> (e.g. NSURLSession and other APIs that use blocks and Objective-C 2.0 
> functionality), and other specific toolchain options.
> 
> User values can be injected into the comparison.
> 
> The Design Part
> To keep the website as light as possible, I used Helvetica (A beautiful 
> sans-serif typeface available on all major operating systems) and EB 
> Garamond. EB Garamond is an open source font aims at providing a free version 
> of the Garamond types, based on the Designs of the Berner specimen from 1592.
> 
> If you have recommendations on what web technology to use (No javascript only 
> frameworks of course) go ahead :)
> 
> Note
> This is only a fragment. A mockup of a redesigned website, articles, 
> documentation, and detailed installation instructions are coming (Some 
> article mocks are already finished). I’ll start working on the introspection 
> logic once the mockups are converted and a proper Debian package mirror is 
> set up.
> 
> 

Re: SimpleAgenda maintainer?

[Steven R. Baker]

Graham Lee and I have streamed some of our work on SimpleAgenda over at [objc 
retain]; and we made some good progress.

But there's still work to be done.

I'm personally very interested in this, and I have a long personal TODO list on 
SimpleAgenda, and I'd love to collaborate with others.

I am available for pair programming on this, if you like!  I've learned 
recently that I don't really like working on software alone.  I have up to an 
hour three days per week to screen share and work on this together!

-Steven


> 19 maj 2022 kl. 18:50 skrev Marco Cawthorne :
> 
> Has anyone picked up maintainership of SimpleAgenda yet?
> 
> There are some outstanding issues. In particular GroupDAV/CalDAV setup will 
> cause the application to lock up forever when restarted.
> 
> I will take a crack at it if need be, but I want to avoid duplicated effort.
> 
> -- Marco
> 
> 

Re: Freeze dates for Debian's next release

[Steven R. Baker]

I'm available for working on this.

But sometimes I need a little poking for "specific tasks."  You can feel free 
to ping me with "we need X done by Y" and I will be able to handle it.

Let's make sure latest GNUstep gets in before freeze!

Cheers!

-Steven


> 22 mars 2022 kl. 18:36 skrev Yavor Doganov :
> 
> FYI, Debian has announced[1] the preliminary freeze dates in
> preparation for the next stable release 12 (bookworm):
> 
> 2023-01-12  - Milestone 1 - Transition and toolchain freeze
> 2023-02-12  - Milestone 2 - Soft Freeze
> 2023-03-12  - Milestone 3 - Hard Freeze - for key packages and
>packages without autopkgtests
> To be announced - Milestone 4 - Full Freeze
> 
> IOW, to get into the next Debian release GNUstep core should plan
> releasing around December this year, ideally before Christmas.
> Apps like Gorm/GAP/etc can still get in if released Jan/Feb 2023
> provided they don't contain a library/framework with incompatible
> changes in the new release(s).
> 
> I will send a reminder/update around the summer or whenever there is a
> serious change in the schedule.
> 
> [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2022/03/msg00251.html
> 
> 

Re: Should we split the project into two branches?

[Steven R. Baker]

I mostly haven’t chimed in here because others covered my points for me. But I 
feel like reiterating what I said on stream the other night. 

As a copyleft and GNU fan, it causes me deep emotional pin that we’re 
considering targeting something other than GCC as our primary tool chain. 

BUT

We are a small community and if we wish to grow that community, we need to 
remove barriers. Focusing on feature complete LLVM/libobjc2 might do a lot of 
this for us.

So I am, for now, in favour.

I felt the same about our move to GitHub. Actually, I felt more strongly about 
the GitHub move. But again, I didn’t have the time to help with an alternative.

I do think it’s important for us to establish a rule as a community that we 
don’t depend on LLVM specifics where it’s not absolutely necessary, so that 
when GCC catches up we can switch back easily. 

I am not currently able to do the work, but I hope to some day. And I want that 
process to be easy. 

Finally, I am willing to donate to a fund that brings GCC up to snuff. And even 
do some of the work with a patient pair. If anyone put there is capable and has 
an amount in mind, please discuss.

Cheers!

-Steven

> 14 feb. 2022 kl. 22:05 skrev Gregory Casamento :
> 
> Andreas,
> 
> We don't have to tell developers who develop applications that because 
> GNUstep currently works with clang.  Most of the issues mentioned (i.e. "new" 
> features) are compiler-specific.  It is a common misconception that GNUstep 
> has anything to do with GCC's feature set or that we are, somehow, in control 
> of features added to GCC due to the fact that we are the major ObjC free 
> software project.
> 
> GNUstep's core code tries to remain as compatible as possible with both 
> tool-chains.  This is done very much on purpose.  When using clang, you can 
> use many of the ObjC2.0 features.  The main one missing is ARC, and that is 
> the main one I am concerned about.
> 
> Apple isn't concerned with remaining compatible with any other compiler, so 
> they were free to move completely to LLVM/Clang and use its features in their 
> implementation of the frameworks.   According to discussions, this saved 
> Apple a lot of code and time debugging memory issues.  We don't have that 
> option since our priority is freedom.
> 
> My point during this discussion is and has been that GCC's objc support is 
> non-existent, so at some point, we will need to make a decision.   What I am 
> hoping to do is to figure out what work needs to be done to make this happen 
> on both sides (clang and GCC).
> 
> Yours, GC
> 
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 12:40 PM Andreas Fink  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote on 14.02.22 17:43:
> >
> >> On 14 Feb 2022, at 14:59, Max Chan  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Feb 14, 2022, at 8:23 AM, Richard Frith-Macdonald 
> >>> mailto:rich...@frithmacdonald.me.uk>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 14 Feb 2022, at 11:43, Max Chan   > wrote:
> 
>  Dear List,
> 
>  There are over and over again arguments on moving on to LLVM/clang for 
>  latest language features versus maintaining compatibility with 
>  old/uncommon platforms and GCC,
> >>> Really this is simply not the case among GNUstep developers.
> >>> Those of us who actually use the stuff just work with whatever we 
> >>> prefer/need, because GNUstep already works with both toolchains.
> >> The hard requirement of allowing building using GCC means we are 
> >> restricted to language features equivalent of OS X 10.6.8 or iOS 4.3.5,
> > Please don't spread such nonsense on the mailing lists.
> >
> > The fact that we have a huge base of code that builds with both GCC and 
> > clang (and a small part that only functions when built with clang) in no 
> > way restricts us in the way we write new code.
> >
> > Having highly portable code is a strong point, but that doesn't mean that 
> > *all* features are equally portable or that contributors are required to 
> > write perfect portable code.
> >
> > It does the project a huge disservice to tell developers they 'have to use 
> > an ancient version of the language'. Please don't do it.
> 
> It does the project a huge reality check to tell developers they 'have to use 
> an ancient version of the language *IF THEY WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO GNUSTEP*'.
> That's says it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org  - 
> http://heronsperch.blogspot.com 
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 
>  - Become a Patron
> https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx  - My GNUstep GoFundMe
> https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep  - 
> Store
> 

The State of Debian Packaging

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya folks,

I've been following the other threads, but haven't been computering as actively 
over the holidays, so I wanted to give an overview and "source of truth" on the 
Debian packages of GNUstep.

Sorry for the long one, but I'm aiming to give a background on the "how and 
why" of Debian packaging; the current state of things; how to get newer version 
of things; and how to help.

I intend to make a README for GNUstep in Debian and publish it, and a lot of 
what is here will go there.  But for now, you'll have to wade through this 
email.

Background: Debian packages are often considered "wildly out of date," and this 
is only true because of the way the Debian release process works.

Debian has three "current" distributions.  "stable", which is the current 
released version.  "unstable" (called sid, which is a backronym now meaning 
Still In Development) is where new package versions are uploaded.  Many 
daily-drivers of Debian use "testing", which is unstable packages delayed by a 
period of time (two weeks from memory) and only "promoted" to testing when 
there aren't any release critical (RC) bugs reported against them.

The Debian packages are maintained by the Debian GNUstep packaging team, which 
is sorely understaffed.

You can find the repos for the packaging efforts on Debian Salsa, which is 
Debian's GitLab instance: https://salsa.debian.org/gnustep-team 
  Every GNUstep related package that is 
in Debian (or will be RSN) is included there.

Let's use an example to demonstrate the current state of things, gnustep-base 
which can be found here: https://salsa.debian.org/gnustep-team/gnustep-base 


The `master` branch contains the release that is currently in sid.  In the case 
of gnustep-base, that's 1.28.0.  But here's where it gets interesting.  Using 
the Debian watch program, the GNUstep FTP server is monitored for new releases. 
 You can see the watch file here: 
https://salsa.debian.org/gnustep-team/gnustep-base/-/blob/master/debian/watch 


There are also branches called `stretch` and `buster` which is the source from 
which the packages in those releases is built.

Debian Salsa should grab the latest release when it hits the FTP server and 
create a new branch.

If you check out that repo and build the package (more details later, but try 
`debuild -uc -us` to start) you should get a working package.  If you don't, 
you need to look in `debian/patches` and see if the patches need to be updated 
or removed to get it to build appropriately.

If you make changes, PLEASE submit a merge request so someone on the GNUstep 
packaging team can review it and include it.

The tool for building packages from the GitLab sources is called `gbp` and is 
in the `git-buildpackage` package.  You will have to do some setup, there is 
documentation.

So, how can you help?

1) Please learn about gbp and look at the repositories to see if 
anything is missing a latest version.  If it is, we need to update the 
CI/DevOps stuff in GitLab to do this automatically.
2) Build and test the latest versions of things.
3) Create new packages for things that don't exist.

My intention is to use these sources to build a new repository of up-to-date 
packages, and add some missing things (libs-xcode, buildtool, and some apps.)  
I have made some progress on this, and intend to get back to it in the new year 
afresh.

The best next-step for us is to maintain a repository (I am volunteering for 
this in the new year) that contains good packages of the latest-released stuff. 
 So people can simply add a new package repository and get latest GNUstep bits.

If you have questions or concerns, please reply in thread.  It will really help 
me finish outlining my documentation for this.

I hope this helps a bit.

Cheers!

-Steven

Re: Notes from GNUstep quarterly meet up...

[Steven R. Baker]

I would like to volunteer to have website tasks assigned to me.  You can be 
vague and open ended with these.

I’m also happy to work on the gcc bits but I’ll need a pair or a sherpa on that 
because though I’d like to work on that, I have very little experience working 
on compilers. 

> 12 aug. 2021 kl. 20:38 skrev Gregory Casamento :
> 
> 
> Hey guys... I would like to see if we can break out this list into action 
> items and make some issues and assign them to certain individuals.   This way 
> we make some progress based on our discussion.
> 
> I will take a stab at making a list of action items and post them here.  If 
> anyone has any feedback, let me know.
> 
> Thx, GC
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 12:00 AM Gregory Casamento  
>> wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> The meet up went well.  I REALLY enjoyed meeting everyone and I found the 
>> discussion very interesting and productive.   I took notes during the 
>> meeting.  We did not have an agenda so these points came up naturally.  I 
>> have noted who brought them up.  Riccardo joined later, so I took down his 
>> thoughts.   I am glad we did this and am very much looking forward to the 
>> next time. 
>> 
>> So, for your comment and review here are the notes:
>> 
>> * Website (David Wetzel - DW)
>> * Need to have the website present a solution for installing GNUstep 
>> quickly.  Make a script…
>> * tutorials to get from to hello world quickly
>> * (Riccardo M. - RM) Discuss with Riccardo what changes are needed.
>> * Usability (DW)
>> * More command line interfaces
>> * Terminal based environment
>> * Terminal only based tutorial
>> * GCC vs. LLVM/Clang (DW)
>> * Clang has an advantage because ObjC is more of a focus
>> * Fred: Is it possible to get  gcc up to spec? 
>> * Require time from GS developers?  
>> * Who should do it?
>> * Will GCC accept our patches?
>> * RMS asked, and GCC said they would review our patches with 
>> “kinder” eye.
>> * Issues with libobjc2 - (RM) - This is a consistent issue on a lot of 
>> platforms.  LLVM/Clang Doesn’t work on ALL platforms.
>> * Doesn’t work NetBSD
>> * uses CMAKE, but would be better using STRAIGHT make as CMAKE is 
>> not available or not easy to configure
>> * Cairo - Problems (Fred Kiefer - FK)
>> * unmaintained — should we move to another library??
>> * Can we replace the current Cairo with a hw accelerated library? Or any 
>> other commonly used library that is maintained!?
>> * Cocotron (FK)
>> * Can we use any Cocotron code?
>> * MIT based.  So we may be able to reuse some of their code or take 
>> ideas from their code.
>> 
>> I will be posting these to the wiki or to the website soon.
>> 
>> Yours, GC
>> -- 
>> Gregory Casamento
>> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
>> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
>> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
>> https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe
>> https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
> https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe
> https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store

ANN: AntiRSI 1.5.0

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya folks!

I have released AntiRSI 1.5.0, and you can find it on GitHub at: 
https://github.com/srbaker/AntiRSI 

(The provided Mac binary is not yet notarized, so you will get a security 
warning if you try to install it.)

AntiRSI is an application for reminding you to take breaks to prevent 
Repetitive Strain Injury.  I’ve been using it on my Mac for more than a decade, 
and recently it’s been ported to work on GNUstep.  Graham Lee and I did the 
porting work live on our stream [objc retain];  The code _should_ build with a 
single command on each of macOS: xcodebuild and GNUstep: buildtool.  I think 
you need latest buildtool.

I would like to thank Graham for working on this with me.  Greg Casamento did 
some great work on buildtool to get it building nicely.  Josh Freeman emailed 
us help to fix some bugs with the dock icon drawing.  And other participants on 
the stream also helped along the way.

Thanks everyone for your help, and please feel free to contribute or complain!

I am intending to set up CI on FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Debian, and Fedora, and 
provide packages for each in the near future.  I may also look for help getting 
it working on Windows using GNUstep as well.

Cheers!

-Steven

Acceptance / UI Testing

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya folks,

I'm trying to figure out how best to do Acceptance Testing for my applications. 
Are there currently hooks in GNUstep for asking about visible components, and 
issuing events programmatically? Are there any applications out there that do 
this?

I don't need fancy high level tools like Cucumber or whatever, I just need a 
thing that allows me to say "Click this button", and "this tableview should 
have this many rows, and the first row should have this number in it".

Thanks!

-Steven


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Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

[Steven R. Baker]

On 31/07/17 10:19 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

On 31 July 2017 at 21:58, Steven R. Baker <ste...@stevenrbaker.com> wrote:

Firefox's UI is highly configurable, so I think it can be made to look
"close enough". But you're right, Firefox looking firefox-y means it won't
be a stumbling block for people. We can ignore the web browser issue now,
and maybe in the future get a new WebKit port.

What I have previously suggested was something of a quick-and-dirty hack:

Take the code Ubuntu wrote and published to integrate Firefox with the
Unity desktop, and repurpose it to make Firefox display GNUstep style
menus & icon and so on instead.

Excellent idea! Please do this!

-Steven


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Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

[Steven R. Baker]

On 31/07/17 09:48 PM, Riccardo Mottola wrote:


Hi,


On 31/07/2017 20:01, Steven R. Baker wrote:
My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an 
address book, a web browser, and emacs. I need a few other things, 
but I'll make those myself. The basics are listed here. GNUstep 
already has excellent options for each of those categories, except a 
web browser. But here's the funny thing: none of the other 
environments have a web browser choice that's a compelling choice 
over Firefox anyhow.


Exactly, at the end you have "something" + Firefox anyway. Sadly 
firefox is moving to a quite ugly UI without menus, preferences inside 
panes.. so it is "alien" everywhere. Quite different e.g. from 
SeaMonkey which as a much more classic and enjoyable interface.

For the rest, GS apps on my ThinkPad(s) too.


Firefox's UI is highly configurable, so I think it can be made to look 
"close enough". But you're right, Firefox looking firefox-y means it 
won't be a stumbling block for people. We can ignore the web browser 
issue now, and maybe in the future get a new WebKit port.


There are a few necessities that are missing before I can claim 
"complete desktop experience", and a lot of these things were 
mentioned in the LiveCD comments thread. The first thing I noticed 
when I set up my ThinkPad with WindowMaker + GNUstep is that the 
media keys don't work. It's an easy fix, and I'll do that.


Some of those Keys are actually not GS, but go through X11 directly, 
right?

What kind of keyboard layout do you have on your TP?


I don't know; I haven't looked in detail. I *think* the right thing, 
these days, is to use libinput, and as I recall that's what Xfce does.


I have several ThinkPads. X250s with US layout (I'll switch this if I 
get a chance), W550s with Swedish layout, X1 Carbon Swedish, and X60t 
with US (but I'm about to eBay a Swedish keyboard for it.)




We need a few more preferences panes for configuring PulseAudio 
input/output options, a small app for talking to NetworkManager for 
configuring wifi, etc. After that, it's a matter of shipping a sane 
"default configuration", much like Betrand describes. There are some 
other things that David mentioned in a few mails, but it mostly boils 
down to "make sure things implement the freedesktop specifications."


Yep, we all need work there, sadly, a lot of this is highly unportable 
between OSs and also needs privilege escalation stuff... so I never 
started working on that.


PulseAudio is pretty ubiquitous these days, so a PA-coupled Sound Prefs 
app would be reasonable. Wifi is a different ball of wax entirely, but I 
think the hard work there is in getting the UI right, and we could write 
very thin integrations. Starting with network manager, I'm sure.




2) a personal finance application for budgeting, and a GTD 
application, both with the goal of also being available on Windows 
and Mac from the same codebase. I'd like for these applications to be 
examples of how you can do cross platform really well using GNUstep.


That's a new project. Good luck.


The thing I love about *step development is that once I know what the 
app looks like, the matter of code is fairly simple.




4) obviously, fixing bugs as I find them in these two previous 
activities.


This is a precious things: it improves the whole landscae.


Graham has been my go-to (via IM) when I hit snags. Where is a better 
place to send problems as I have them? I really want to see fixes all 
the way through.




There are currently a few barriers to me making really good progress 
on this:


1) HiDPI not being fully baked is causing me a lot of usability 
problems, so I wind up working on my older systems. Which I don't 
always have nearby. I would *really* like to help with this, but a 
lot of it is way out of my depth. If someone who has the right 
knowledge would like to discuss this with me and help me get a better 
understanding, I'd love to take it on.


Better Hi-Res support is needed also when running on Windows and it 
limits quite a bit the usefulness of GS apps on modern Win8 and Win10 
install which usually render UI elements at a scaled percentage.

However, work on your issue in Terminal is ongoing.


Do you have a good overall idea of the bits, and what work needs to be 
done? As I said, I'm happy to take on some of the responsibility for the 
actual implementation, but I really need some help understanding the 
problem first.



Let's hack! (or continue to..)


Cheers!

-Steven


Riccardo

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Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

[Steven R. Baker]

Any chance you could document your setup with screenshots and code? A 
blog, perhaps? Or a video? This overlaps *very much* with some stuff I'm 
doing right now, and I'd love to see what you've got, and what's left.


Cheers!

-Steven

On 31/07/17 05:36 PM, Bertrand Dekoninck wrote:

Hi Riccardo

One problem is that the GNUstep project has nearly nothing to show to end
users (except screenshots and descriptions). As a consequence a lot of people
doesn't understand the project. They want to do a quick try but they can't.
(in France we have the great http://linuxfr.org website where such questions
often comes.)

As I've always wanted to work on a light desktop using GNUstep, I propose to
work on this :
Even if the project is not about building a desktop, a lots of components are
already present. My idea is to write a short how-to that can be polished along
the time. It should answer to such basic questions that are evident for the
team but not for the others :
- which Window Manager can I choose ? which one for that task ?
- how should I configure GWorkspace ?
- where can I find themes ?
- can I take some Etoilé components ?
etc.


Hi Xavier, here are my 2 cents
GWorkspace is my day to day desktop.

- I use Windowmaker only because it can handle GNUstep miniwindows, but I’ve 
disabled its dock and clip and use GWorkspace dock instead. Not perfect, but it 
works.

- in its autostart file, i’ve put compton (compositing manager), 
gnome-settings-deamon (for gtk theming but I need to disable the mouse cursor 
handling in gconf first, else the cursor would disappear), GWorkspace and 
AClock.

- In SystemPreferences, GNUstep is set to use the cairo backend and the Rik 
theme, and also to have a mac menubar and to hide dot files.

- I would have liked to use EtoileMenuServer to have a persistant global 
menubar with a session manager and a logout widget but it can’t compile it 
correctly. Instead i’ve written a small topbar which is only visible when  non 
GNUstep apps have the focus.

- I’ve configured GWorkspace to show desktop and dock

- The most important part is to install  in …/Applications app-wrappers to be 
able to launch non GNUstep apps in GWorkspace. You must set up correctly the 
filetype associations too in GWorkspace. There are some app wrappers in the 
GWorkspace source repo at https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gworkspace. And I’ve 
written some in my RikIcons repo at 
https://github.com/BertrandDekoninck/RikIcons/tree/master/AppWrappers. My 
wrappers will fit better with Rik.theme because they use Faenza icons for apps 
and the file-type icons I’ve designed for Rik mimicking the mac ones. This way, 
you will use the non-GNUstep apps of your choice to open files (there are not 
so much usable GNUstep apps…) and the global look will be coherent.

With these settings, I’ve got a very usable mac-like desktop.


Cheers, Bertrand



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Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

[Steven R. Baker]

This thread tangent has come along at a very convenient time for me, 
because I've spent some time over my vacation planning out and designing 
a GNUstep-based desktop. I'm going to write a bit about that here.


My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an 
address book, a web browser, and emacs. I need a few other things, but 
I'll make those myself. The basics are listed here. GNUstep already has 
excellent options for each of those categories, except a web browser. 
But here's the funny thing: none of the other environments have a web 
browser choice that's a compelling choice over Firefox anyhow.


There are a few necessities that are missing before I can claim 
"complete desktop experience", and a lot of these things were mentioned 
in the LiveCD comments thread. The first thing I noticed when I set up 
my ThinkPad with WindowMaker + GNUstep is that the media keys don't 
work. It's an easy fix, and I'll do that.


We need a few more preferences panes for configuring PulseAudio 
input/output options, a small app for talking to NetworkManager for 
configuring wifi, etc. After that, it's a matter of shipping a sane 
"default configuration", much like Betrand describes. There are some 
other things that David mentioned in a few mails, but it mostly boils 
down to "make sure things implement the freedesktop specifications."


I have a parallel goal of getting some of my favourite mac apps 
compiling for GNUstep. I'm starting with AntiRSI, for instance, which is 
a small bit of code that reminds you to take breaks from typing. I would 
really love to see something like Quicksilver working. Adium and 
Colloquy would be amazing goals as well.


We're at an interesting crossroads right now: many mac folks are moving 
back to Linux-based desktops, for a variety of reasons. Many of them are 
bringing Cocoa + Objective-C knowledge and skills with them.


My vacation ends this week, so here's what I'm going to be spending the 
next many months on:


1) a sensible default configuration of a GNUstep-based desktop. Focusing 
on filling holes like "media keys that work" (xfce has great prior art 
on this, and it's like 100 lines of code), and perhaps a GNUstep 
implementation of xrandr (see ARandR for prior art). The things that 
nobody thinks about, but *really* strong miss when they're gone.


2) a personal finance application for budgeting, and a GTD application, 
both with the goal of also being available on Windows and Mac from the 
same codebase. I'd like for these applications to be examples of how you 
can do cross platform really well using GNUstep.


3) the integration bits that David talked about. We can use clever 
theming to make sure that Qt and GTK+ apps fit in together, and that's 
easy. But we really need to make sure that they "feel right" next to 
each other.


4) obviously, fixing bugs as I find them in these two previous activities.

There are currently a few barriers to me making really good progress on 
this:


1) HiDPI not being fully baked is causing me a lot of usability 
problems, so I wind up working on my older systems. Which I don't always 
have nearby. I would *really* like to help with this, but a lot of it is 
way out of my depth. If someone who has the right knowledge would like 
to discuss this with me and help me get a better understanding, I'd love 
to take it on.


2) Bugs or "surprises" in Gorm and PB often have me scratching my head, 
or shaving yaks. I'm starting to compile these in reproducible ways, and 
I'll contribute where I can.


3) Documentation. There is a lot of missing API documentation. I am 
basically just going to write this and submit patches. NSTableView is 
the first thing I'm working on.


I've got a few other things on my list, and there's a lot of ocean to 
boil. If some of you also feel like this is a good use of your time, 
perhaps you'll want to join me, and we can set up a place for discussing 
and sharing this. I'm doing this for myself, to scratch my own itches, 
but I think it could have wider use.


The bottom line for me is that if I can have a development environment 
that I *actually enjoy* using, as much as I did on NeXT, and as much as 
I did for most of the time I did Mac and iOS development (Xcode bullshit 
notwithstanding), then I think that's valuable to the entire community.


Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Happy hacking!

-Steven

On 31/07/17 07:12 PM, Ivan Vučica wrote:
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Xavier Brochard 
> wrote:


Le 31 juillet, 18:46:22 Fred Kiefer a écrit :
> That just shows the main issue we have. People, even the one interested in
> GNUstep, are not aware of what is already there.

That's why a little how-to is necessary!
It would start with
For a good experience try with
- freeBSD
- Fedora
- SuSE
- forget Debian and derivative

Install this
Configure this and this
etc.


Side note: We seem 

HiDPI in Terminal.app

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya,

I've been hacking on Terminal.app a bit, to try and get it working in 
HiDPI.  The problem is that the cell size seems to be set correctly 
according to the scale, but when the characters are rendered they are 
*not* scaled.  You wind up with a large character cell, with a character 
in the bottom left corner of it, and gaps everywhere.


I think I have it working, but the solution doesn't feel right. You can 
see it here: 
https://github.com/srbaker/gap/commit/8fe99150704a10d6b3b6b70947361376dcc3c819 
If this *is* appropriate, I'll generate a patch and sign the copyright 
assignment stuff, etc.


Some explanation, so you can follow along my thinking.  In 
TerminalView.m, the characterCellSize class method sets the size of a 
character cell correctly.  I suspect that this because 
boundingRectForFont knows the scale factor, but the DPSshow() call 
(around line 728 in my edited file, inside drawRect:) does *not* know 
what the scale factor is because it doesn't know the scale factor.


I feel like the correct thing to do here is to handle scaling in DPS, 
but at this point I'm quite over my head.  Thoughts, please. I'm willing 
to do the work, but I just feel like I'm barking up the wrong tree here...


Cheers!

-Steven



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Terminal.app Source Repo

[Steven R. Baker]

Hello,

I have some patches for Terminal.app (specifically, fixing it for 
HiDPI). I need to know where the Terminal.app source code lives, so I 
can send the patches in the right direction.


I hope someone here can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

-Steven


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Re: ANN: New version of PikoPixel, pixel-art editor

[Steven R. Baker]

Thank you for working on this. I am not an artist by any stretch, but I still 
love playing with this program. 

I am reminded that I have testable packages for Debian that I ought to update 
for this version and submit. 

Skickat från min iPhone

> 9 juli 2017 kl. 21:27 skrev Josh Freeman :
> 
>   PikoPixel is a free, open-source (AGPLv3) pixel-art editor for Mac OS X & 
> GNUstep. A new version, 1.0 BETA8, is now available.
> 
>   New in 1.0 BETA8:
> - Line Tool: Added color ramp mode (press Ctrl+Option to draw a gradient line)
> - Layer blending: Added linear (gamma-correct) blending option
> - Bugfixes & tweaks
> - GNUstep: Various UI fixes (including better slider responsiveness, and 
> workarounds for window issues on KWin & WindowMaker window managers)
> 
>   Demo video of the new Color-ramp & Linear-blending features:
> https://youtu.be/izYedtSIg0Y
> 
>   PikoPixel 1.0 BETA8 for GNUstep must currently be built from source code 
> (no downloadable binaries yet); It's compatible with either of GNUstep's 
> compiler/runtime setups (GCC/gobjc or clang/objc2), and requires the 
> following GS library versions (or later):
> GNUstep Base: v1.24.9 (released Mar. 20, 2016)
> GNUstep GUI & Back: v0.25.0 (released Jun. 15, 2016)
> 
>   PikoPixel's licensing terms have also been updated from AGPLv3-only to 
> permit future approved versions:
> 
> PikoPixel is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify it under
> the terms of the GNU Affero General Public License as published by the
> Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or (at your
> option) any later version approved for PikoPixel by its copyright holder (or
> an authorized proxy).
> 
>   PikoPixel's source archive is available from its website or from the 
> GNUstep Software Index:
> http://twilightedge.com/mac/pikopixel/
> http://gnustep.org/softwareindex/showdetail.php?app=199
> 
>   Please send questions, comments, or issues to pikopixel (at) twilightedge 
> (dot) com.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
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FOSDEM

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya folks,

I'm heading to FOSDEM next weekend, and plan to be doing some GNUstep 
hacking with a friend. Who else on the list is going? We should try to 
get together.


Cheers!

-Steven


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Re: mulle-objc #MakeObjCGreatAgain

[Steven R. Baker]

On 01/12/16 17:33, David Chisnall wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2016, at 16:12, Steven R. Baker <ste...@stevenrbaker.com> wrote:
>> It might not be true today. But at some point, Apple will see fit to not
>> give back a feature. A feature that people will depend on.
> Which part of ‘Apple is not even the largest single contributor’ did you not 
> understand?  If Apple stopped contributing to LLVM and Clang then:
I understand the statement perfectly, and it's the basis of my concern. :(

-Steven


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Re: mulle-objc #MakeObjCGreatAgain

[Steven R. Baker]

On 01/12/16 12:06, David Chisnall wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2016, at 07:43, Steven R. Baker <ste...@stevenrbaker.com> wrote:
>> I would like to add an additional concern. I know that LLVM and clang are 
>> the new hotness, but they're de facto owned by Apple now. It won't be long 
>> before there are new and hot features that are in Apple's own version of 
>> LLVM, and it'll be very desirable to depend on these new and hot features.
> This is simply not true.  Apple’s contributions, as a percentage of the 
> total, have been decreasing for the last five years.  It’s been several years 
> since they were responsible for over 50% of total development and they’re not 
> even the largest single contributor anymore (Google is).  Apple’s release 
> process for LLVM is to fork at a point from svn head, run a bunch of 
> additional tests, and backport any fixes from a specific branch.  This code 
> then appears on opensource.apple.com - occasionally it includes a few hacky 
> fixes for issues on Darwin that they haven’t upstreamed because upstream 
> won’t accept it until they tidy it up and do it properly.
It might not be true today. But at some point, Apple will see fit to not
give back a feature. A feature that people will depend on.

We've all seen this happen *many* times. And we'll see it again. And
some people will act surprised.

-Steven


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Re: mulle-objc #MakeObjCGreatAgain

[Steven R. Baker]

[snip]

> All of this just to say I fear that having a new runtime might not be
> what is needed to save GNUstep
> from oblivion. Now I will just start thinking about what I will do to
> save it.

I agree with everything you've said here. I share your concerns.

I would like to add an additional concern. I know that LLVM and clang
are the new hotness, but they're de facto owned by Apple now. It won't
be long before there are new and hot features that are in Apple's own
version of LLVM, and it'll be very desirable to depend on these new and
hot features.

And then where will we be?

-Steven


> Do you have any suggestions?
>
> Edwin Ancaer 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-11-28 21:32 GMT+01:00 Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf
>  >:
>
> Hi 'Steppers,
>
>
> you might be interested in this: mulle-objc is a new way to run
> Objective-C code on various platforms, based on a new compiler and
> a new runtime.
>
> https://mulle-objc.github.io
>
> some more background information is available here:
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042199
> 
>
>
> regards,
>
> Lars
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>
>
>
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Re: ANN: New version of PikoPixel, pixel-art editor

[Steven R. Baker]

Thank you for sharing this.

I think this is exactly the kind of thing that we need to help bring the
platform forward. Specifically, beautiful purpose built, non-trivial
applications that run seamlessly on GNUstep and macOS.

If you're not intending to, do you mind if I open an ITP for this with
Debian? I would love to get it in there.

Cheers!

-Steven

On 15/11/16 23:22, Josh Freeman wrote:
>PikoPixel is a free, open-source (AGPLv3) pixel-art editor for Mac
> OS X & GNUstep. A new version, 1.0 BETA7, is now available.
>
>Demo video (this was posted before for the previous version):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaL8m1SnsBI
>
>New in 1.0 BETA7:
> - Canvas Grid: Now supports custom-spaced guidelines
> - Canvas Grid: Save custom grid patterns as presets
> - Rectangle Selection Tool: Added snap-to-grid-guidelines modifier (Ctrl)
> - Oval Drawing Tool: Improved pixel-accuracy of oval shapes
> - Better drawing performance
> - Bugfixes & tweaks
> - GNUstep: Various UI fixes
>
>PikoPixel for GNUstep must currently be built from source code (no
> packaged binaries yet); Its source archive is linked at the bottom of
> the PikoPixel webpage (not the green "Download" arrow, which downloads
> the Mac binary):
> http://twilightedge.com/mac/pikopixel/
>
>1.0 BETA7 requires a GNUstep development environment with the
> current released versions of the GS libraries (or later):
> GNUstep Base: v1.24.9
> GNUstep GUI & Back: v0.25.0
>
>Please send questions, comments, or issues to pikopixel (at)
> twilightedge (dot) com.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Josh
>
>
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GSLaunchedApplications.lock

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya,

I keep seeing this error:

NSGenericException: lock
'/tmp/GNUstepSecure1000/GSLaunchedApplications.lock' already broken

I get it when trying to start PRICE.app and AddressManager.app, pretty
consistently right now. But I've seen it from other apps as well.

I'm running Debian testing, and whatever the latest packages are from there.

Help is appreciated!

-Steven



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Re: GNUMail sources

[Steven R. Baker]

On Thu, May 19, 2016, at 08:08 PM, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> Hi Steven
> 
> Steven R. Baker wrote:
> >
> >> If you have isseus, let's discuss them, but there are some which I do
> >> not know how to fix.
> >> Which other apps are you  missing?
> > Great question, and thank you for asking! There is a rather long and
> > complicated answer here.
> 
> I actually intended to ask "what other apps of collaboration world" are 
> you missing.
> The fact that we miss a lot of stuff in GNUstep is a fact! Also, as your 
> list shows, everybody has its personal preferences.

Whoops!
 
> 
> >
> > About a year ago I gave up my Macs to return to ThinkPads running
> > Debian. At the time of leaving the Mac, I was using the built-in stuff,
> > plus Things, DEVONthink, and VoodooPad. So I'm looking for replacements
> > of all of that. I've been struggling a lot with where to land, and
> > contribute my efforts. I've spend some time on GNOME, KDE, and have even
> > dabbled in Enlightenment land, to see what can provide everything I'm
> > looking for *and* be an enjoyable place to contribute. So far I have
> > found pros and cons, but I think I'm going to be happiest in GNUstep
> > land.
> 
> One of my goals with GNUstep has always been to have a ThinkPad (and the 
> old Vista and ThinkCentres) running it and make a workstation or laptop 
> as NeXT would have done it. That is Mac, without all the gizmo :)
> Especially since nowadays Macs are little more than PCs and Mac (and 
> Windows) went down the route of being tabletized/phoneized more and more.
> 
> >
> > I really miss the quantity and quality of what I'll broadly refer to as
> > "Productivity Apps" on the Mac, and my life is considerably less chaotic
> > and crazy when I'm a Mac user with a great suite of productivity
> > applications. But I hate myself for supporting the closed, proprietary,
> > unsustainable technology category. And, I find it hard to get "real
> > work" done on a Mac.
> >
> > My first order of business is to get good replacements for AddressBook,
> > Calendar, and Mail from OS X. I am currently working on some UI
> > improvements to SimpleAgenda, and after that I'll focus on
> > CardDav/CalDav support. The only thing I'm missing from GNUmail is IMAP
> > IDLE support, which I'll have to figure out how to add to Pantomime, I
> > guess. And some form of Sieve filter management.
> 
> I have no clue what IMAP IDLE is, but IMAP support in GNUmail works, but 
> is not totally stable. When there are faults, the application crashes 
> instead of recovering. Before adding new features to GNUMail, I'd like 
> to stabilize it and clean up its code. It is a slow in-progress process.

I completely agree. Do you have an issue tracker with known bugs? I'd
like to exercise these and help where I can.

IMAP IDLE is basically "push" support; leaves a socket open, and lets
the client know when changes happen.

> You should use Addresses from GAP, which had a bit of fixes.

Will look. Thanks!

> >
> > I've also started (slowly) working on an app I'm calling "Tickler" which
> > will be a GTD app (using TaskWarrior as a backend). Once that's usable,
> > I'll probably be hooked for life. I have a few small projects I want to
> > explore: an MTP browser for talking to my Android phone, NewsBlur
> > support for Grr, a few dock apps for laptop-related things. And figuring
> > out why Terminal.app flips its pancakes over Swedish characters in
> > filenames.
> 
> No clue what you are mentioning there... however it is ironic what you 
> say about Terminal, since the original Author is swedish. Sadly he 
> doesn't contribute to it anymore.
> I hope you are using Terminal from GAP.

I'll test against the GAP one. It might be a font issue.

> > As I'm sure you'll understand, this takes time and patience, and while I
> > have both in spades right now, it may not last. The quick responses on
> > the GNUstep mailing lists is certainly encouraging. Of course, I intend
> > to share my knowledge and work as I go.
> 
> It has been 13 years I am working on more and more apps, getting them to 
> work and keeping them up to date.
> Nice that you have enthusiasm, is it needed, because the task is immense
> :)
> You will also understand when you check out the "vastity" of apps there 
> that stabilizing them is an humongous task. I would rpefer several of 
> them to have solid foundations before adding stuff...

Couldn't agree more. My specific expertise is in automated testing, so
I'm going to certainly focus on some of that.

> So Check out what's around. If you are us

Re: GNUMail sources

[Steven R. Baker]

On Thu, May 19, 2016, at 12:38 AM, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Germán Arias wrote:
> > Hi Steven
> >
> > Currently a fork of GNUMail are hosted here:
> >
> > http://gna.org/projects/gnustep-nonfsf
> >
> > and the website is this:
> >
> > http://home.gna.org/gnustep-nonfsf/gnumail.html
> >
> > The development of this fork is slow. But its intention is maintain
> > alive this app.
> 
> we imported in this repository only pantomime and gnumail, not other 
> projects.
> We are undergoing a very slow and cautionary fix and update of the code. 
> I believe the current code is bettery in eevery way than the original 
> code and does not introduce new issues.
> Still, depending on your usage GNUMail can be usable or not.
> It should work pretty well with a standard POP and a SMTP without 
> authentication though.
> NetBSD support was added since the work as well as many improvements.

Perfect, thanks!

> If you have isseus, let's discuss them, but there are some which I do 
> not know how to fix.
> Which other apps are you  missing?

Great question, and thank you for asking! There is a rather long and
complicated answer here.

About a year ago I gave up my Macs to return to ThinkPads running
Debian. At the time of leaving the Mac, I was using the built-in stuff,
plus Things, DEVONthink, and VoodooPad. So I'm looking for replacements
of all of that. I've been struggling a lot with where to land, and
contribute my efforts. I've spend some time on GNOME, KDE, and have even
dabbled in Enlightenment land, to see what can provide everything I'm
looking for *and* be an enjoyable place to contribute. So far I have
found pros and cons, but I think I'm going to be happiest in GNUstep
land.

(A brief not on my experience: I cut my teeth on Unix-y GUI programming
on NeXTstep, and loved it, before doing GTK+ stuff until buying a Mac in
2006. As a Mac user I worked on some Mac and iOS apps before giving up
Macs about a year ago.)

I really miss the quantity and quality of what I'll broadly refer to as
"Productivity Apps" on the Mac, and my life is considerably less chaotic
and crazy when I'm a Mac user with a great suite of productivity
applications. But I hate myself for supporting the closed, proprietary,
unsustainable technology category. And, I find it hard to get "real
work" done on a Mac.

My first order of business is to get good replacements for AddressBook,
Calendar, and Mail from OS X. I am currently working on some UI
improvements to SimpleAgenda, and after that I'll focus on
CardDav/CalDav support. The only thing I'm missing from GNUmail is IMAP
IDLE support, which I'll have to figure out how to add to Pantomime, I
guess. And some form of Sieve filter management.

I've also started (slowly) working on an app I'm calling "Tickler" which
will be a GTD app (using TaskWarrior as a backend). Once that's usable,
I'll probably be hooked for life. I have a few small projects I want to
explore: an MTP browser for talking to my Android phone, NewsBlur
support for Grr, a few dock apps for laptop-related things. And figuring
out why Terminal.app flips its pancakes over Swedish characters in
filenames.

So, it's a balancing act for me: have a well organized and happy
personal life, with a miserable and unproductive working life, or have a
happy and productive working life, with a miserable, chaotic, and
stressful personal life. *If* I can take my Debian system with GNUstep
installed and add a nice GTD app, as well as calendar/contact syncing
with my Fastmail.fm account, then GNUstep will have gained a developer
and friend for life. If, however, I get too stressed out and decide to
forego my freedom-respecting morals in favour of shiny fruit-flavoured
hardware and software, I'm sure I'll find some way to justify that to
myself too.

As I'm sure you'll understand, this takes time and patience, and while I
have both in spades right now, it may not last. The quick responses on
the GNUstep mailing lists is certainly encouraging. Of course, I intend
to share my knowledge and work as I go.

Cheers!

-Steven
 
> Riccardo

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Re: HiDPI Support

[Steven R. Baker]

Sorry, I'm new here so my knowledge of how this works is limited.
 
srbaker@swirl:~$ defaults write GSScaleFactor 1.5
defaults write: domain is not a dictionary!
srbaker@swirl:~$ defaults write GSScaleFactor 2
defaults write: domain is not a dictionary!
 
Thanks!
 
-Steven
 
 
 
On Wed, May 18, 2016, at 06:04 AM, Niels Grewe wrote:
> Hi Steven,
>
> you can play around with the GSScaleFactor default value (defaults
> write GSScaleFactor $SOMETHING) to control the scaling of the UI.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Niels
>
>
> *Von:*ste...@stevenrbaker.com
> *Gesendet:*18. Mai 2016 4:15 vorm.
> *An:*discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
> *Betreff:*HiDPI Support
>
>
> Heya folks,
>
>  Thanks for the quick response on the GNUmail question, I got what I
>  needed, and I've been downloading source code to do some work.
>
>  One annoyance: I have a HiDPI screen. Does GNUstep handle this at
>  all? I have set my DPI appropriately:
>
>  srbaker@swirl:~$ xdpyinfo |grep resolution resolution:    196x162
>  dots per inch
>
>  Is there any way to make this better? Or any current work to improve
>  this? Any way I can help?
>
>  Tack!
>
>  -Steven
>
>  ___
>  Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
>  https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
>
 
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HiDPI Support

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya folks,

Thanks for the quick response on the GNUmail question, I got what I
needed, and I've been downloading source code to do some work.

One annoyance: I have a HiDPI screen. Does GNUstep handle this at all? I
have set my DPI appropriately:

srbaker@swirl:~$ xdpyinfo |grep resolution
  resolution:196x162 dots per inch

Is there any way to make this better? Or any current work to improve
this? Any way I can help?

Tack!

-Steven

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GNUMail sources

[Steven R. Baker]

Heya,

I'm trying to find the GNUMail sources, but collaboration-world is down.
collaboration-world seems to be the home for a bunch of GNUstep
projects, is this going to cause a wide problem?!

Cheers!

-Steven

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